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yadzdi

Folding Hands In Prayer

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I'm new in shia'.I've read books of shiah:TO BE WITH THE TRUTHFUL, NAJ' AL BALAGHA,THE 100 QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS ABOUT SHIAH,SUNNI AND WAHABISM.I was deeply shock how the truth been hidden.I was convinced,feel the real inner peace.Everyday we got a dialogue w/ my devoted sunni father.One thing confuses when he try ask me,do the shia fold the hands of dead brother.

Brother give us some explanation about this and some references.We must be grateful to men who are steadfast to spread the thruth.Thank you.

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(bismillah)

Firstly, Welcome, I too reverted from the sunni school.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

If we did, would it matter? What difference does it make?

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Folding hands in salaah is a different matter. We don't.

That is the sunnah. Look at Malikis they don't either.

Was-Salaam

Edited by JawzofDETH

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Ya,Alhamdulillah, I appriciate ur message.But dear sis,I think the question answered unsatisfactorily.

We are in Philippines,w/ a few numbers of shia.We are arguing w/ non shia muslim everyday.So we need concrete proof in certain subject.It just that we paused when they share us this question.Its not a matter of winning over them,its our greedy for truth.

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[ 9295 ] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä ÈÅÓäÇÏå ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ Úä ÕÝæÇä æÝÖÇáÉ ÌãíÚÇð ¡ Úä ÇáÚáÇÁ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓáã ¡ Úä ÃÍÏåãÇ ( ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÞáÊ : áå ÇáÑÌá íÖÚ íÏå Ýí ÇáÕáÇÉ ¡ æÍßì Çáíãäì Úáì ÇáíÓÑì ¿ ÝÞÇá : Ðáß ÇáÊßÝíÑ ¡ áÇ ÊÝÚá .

1 – Muhammad b. al-Hasan by his isnad from al-Husayn b. Sa`id from Safwan and Faddala all from al-`Ala from Muhammad b. Muslim from one of the two of them ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã. He said: I said to him: The man who positions his hand in salat – and he related - the right upon the left? So he said: That is takfeer, do not do it.

[ 9296 ] 2 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ ÈÇáÅÓäÇÏ ÇáÓÇÈÞ ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : æÚáíß ÈÇáÅÞÈÇá Úáì ÕáÇÊß Ü Åáì Ãä ÞÇá Ü æáÇ ÊßÝÑ ¡ ÝÅäãÇ íÝÚá Ðáß ÇáãÌæÓ .

2 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub by the preceding isnad from Zurara from Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: And upon you is to dedicate (yourself) in your salat – until he said: And do not do takfeer, for only the Zoroastrians do that.

See more here:

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/salat/things-that-break-salat/folding-the-hands

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Can anybody provide more detailed sources of how the arm folding practice came into being? When answering those who do cross their arms I refer them to the Maliki madhab but it would be useful to know where this came from.

Wa Salaam

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Can anybody provide more detailed sources of how the arm folding practice came into being? When answering those who do cross their arms I refer them to the Maliki madhab but it would be useful to know where this came from.

Wa Salaam

Don't know the source, but it was apparantely started by the usual suspect (Umar). Some prisoners were summoned before him and they had their hands folded because they were scared of him. He then said to the people that you should fear God more than me, therefore start folding your hands in salaat.

This has snowballed into millions of people doing it today.

Edited by Replicant

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I have a question i live in Holland and there aren't anny shia mosque's here so i pray in the sunni mosques. So when we pray in the mosque i really stand out cause I am not folding my arms, is it allowed to fold my arms when i'm praying in a sunni musque cause if i don't do that then there is a divide in the musque within in the muslims and i want to pray in harmony with my brothers.

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Contrary to popular belief the practice of hand clasping was not started by Hz Umar. This is an innovation probably started by the Abbasides or Umayads.

 

Imam Malik reports that all the people of Medina during his lifetime still prayed with their arms open. However people outside Medina had started to pray with hands clasped.

 

From that we can surmise that during the Khilafat Rashidoon hands open was the accepted method of Salaat and Medina was still the centre of power and dicatated Islamic theology.

 

After the power shifted first to Damascus and then Baghdad Medina's religous authority was in decline and innovations such as hand clasping were introduced. However Medinites  persisted in hands open. 

 

Once the Abassides cemented religious and temporal authority in baghdad so they enforced the chosen version of reading Salaat and enforced it on the rest of the Muslim world.

 

Should be noted that Imam Abu Hanifa allows open hands Imam Hanbal also allows open hands only Imam Shafi says arms clasped.

 

so

 

Imam Malik    only open hands

Imam Hanifa  either open or closed hands

Imam Hanbal  either open or closed hands

Imam Shafi      closed hands only

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I have a theory that arm folding clasping was bought in by the Abbasides or Ummayads. The centers of power for both the Abbasides and Ummayads were out side Medina.


 


Imam Malik alludes to this when he says that the people of Medina pray with their hands at their sides. However indicating that he was aware of hand clasping in other parts of the Islamic empire.


 


So at a particular point in history there was 2 ways of praying. One method centred on Medina and one somewhere outside Medina. Logic dictates that the Medina method was the correct method since it was closer to the source of the original teaching.


 


Another piece of evidence is the Kharijis. The Kharijis split from the main Muslim body during the time of Hz Ali(as).  They remained fiercely independent and fought against the Ummayads and Abbasides and Hz Ali  (as) refusing to recognise their authority.


 


The Kharijis or should I say their modern day descendents the Ibaadis pray with their hands at their sides


 


http://islam.uga.edu/ibadis.html


 


I cannot comment on Imam Shafi or Imam Hanbal but if we look at the Hanafi school of thought we see something very strange.


 


Imam Abu Hanifa was offered the position of Head Qazi of the entire muslim empire by Mamoun the Abbaside Caliph.


Imam Abi Hanifa turned it down and was imprisoned and then poisoned he died in prison.


 


His student Yusuf was offered the position which he accepted. What we think of as Hanafi teachings are actually a set of teachings taught to us by Yusuf and his adherents using Imam Abu Hanifas name. How close these are to the original teachings is difficult to say.


 


Question I would ask is


why did Imam Abu Hanifa turn down the Chief Qazi position ?


What compromises did Imam Abu Hanifa think he would have to make to keep the Caliph happy


What compromises did Yusuf make to keep the Caliph happy

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The Tell Asmar Sculpture Hoard of Prayerful People

The Tell Asmar sculpture hoard (also known as the Square Temple Hoard, Abu Temple Hoard, or Asmar Hoard) is a collection of twelve human effigy statues, discovered in 1934 at the site of Tell Asmar, an important Mesopotamian tell in the Diyala Plain of Iraq, about 50 miles (80 kilometers) northeast of Baghdad.

The three largest of the statues were placed first in the pit and the others carefully stacked on top. They are believed to represent Mesopotamian gods and goddesses and their worshipers. The largest figure (28 in, 72 cm) is thought by some scholars to represent the God Abu, based on symbols carved into the base, which show the lion-headed eagle Imdugud gliding among gazelles and leafy vegetation. Frankfort described the second largest statue (23 in or 59 cm tall) as a representation of the "mother goddess" cult. One other figure, a nude man kneeling, may represent a semi-mythical hero.
The Asmar Statues, ca 2900-2500 BCE

https://www.thoughtco.com/tell-asmar-sculpture-hoard-169594

 

Why do the Shia pray with open hands while the Sunnis pray with their hands closed? How would the holy Prophet of Islam pray? Are there any hadiths on this subject?
Concise answer

Because of the many hadiths they have regarding this matter, the Shia pray with open hands in order to have followed the tradition of the holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and the Imams (عليه السلام). These hadiths express that the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) and the Imams (عليه السلام) would pray with their hands open and at their sides, and that praying with closed hands resembles the Maji.

https://www.islamquest.net/en/archive/question/fa1813

 

We read in Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 664:

Narrated ‘Aisha:
That she used to hate that one should keep his hands on his flanks while praying. She said that the Jew used to do so

Prophet (s) tought Sahaba to offer prayers without folded hands
Imam Ahmed reocrds:

حدثنا عبد الله حدثني أبي ثنا أبو معاوية ثنا الأعمش عن مسيب بن رافع عن تميم بن طرفة عن جابر بن سمرة قال : خرج علينا رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم ذات يوم فقال ما لي أراكم رافعي أيديكم كأنها أذناب خيل شمس أسكنوا في الصلاة
Jabi bin Samara said: ‘Once Allah’s messenger (s came to us andid: ‘Why you fold your hands as the tails of horses, you have to settle in prayer’’.
Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume 5 page 93 Hadith 20905

Shaykh Shoib Al-Aranut stated about this Hadith:

‘The chain is Sahih according to Muslim’s standard’

Imam Showkani records in Nail al-Awtar, Volume 2 page 200:

واحتج القائلون ) بالإرسال بحديث جابر بن سمرة المتقدم بلفظ : (ما لي أراكم رافعي أيديكم)
Those who deem unfolding relied on the tradition of Jabir bin Samara (why do you fold your hands).

Logical deduction that the Holy Prophet (s) prayed Salat with open hands
We read in Sahih al Bukhari, Chapter on the Virtues of the Prayer Hall (Sutra of the Musalla) Volume 1, Book 9, Number 495:

Narrated Abu Qatada Al-Ansari:
Allah’s Apostle was praying and he was carrying Umama the daughters of Zainab, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle and she was the daughter of ‘As bin Rabi’a bin ‘AbduShams. When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck).

We read Sharh Sahih Muslim by Nawawi Volume 1 page 205:

Narrated Abu Qatada Al-Ansari:
On one occasion Allah’s Apostle lead the prayer congregation and Umama the daughter of Zainab, the daughter of ‘As bin Rabi’a bin ‘AbduShams was on his neck. When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck). When he prostrated, he put her down and when he stood, he carried her (on his neck).

We would appeal to our readers to inspect these two traditions closely, the ability to hold a child and the recite Takbeer, and then continue to pray Salat whilst folding his hands! If we are to accept this hadeeth from al Bukhari then we have to accept that the Prophet (s) must have offered Salat with his hands open.

http://www.shiapen.com/fiqh/Shia-method-of-prayers-salat/open-hands.html

 

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

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