Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Layla40

Is Nowroz Purely Cultural Or Linked To Shia Islam?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

salam.gif bro/sis,

I think all your posts have been lacking in any solid proof or some Ahdis that would explain your stance as compared to the others who have offered narrations. Since you seem to have sunni set as your religion your source of knowledge would come from different sources. Therefore unless you agree to the narrations and recommendations by shia sources(which you seem to keep on ignoring) this would be an unending and futile debate!

I was just about to do that (seeing as how people refuse to admit there traditions, although may be good and help them to become 'better' Muslims is not part of the deen) and then I saw your post. How coincidental.

Anyways, lets go back to the basics, because, when reading over this thread, I feel like people are getting wayy over there heads with teh amount of knowledge they believe they possess.

So...basically lets start of with the most important point that we all have in common and can always reference everything against.

Did the Prophet ever Celebrate Norowz?

Did he ever order the Celebration of Norowz?

Did the Qur'an order the celebration of Norowz?

The Answer to all these three questions is no, and that effectively rules out as it being Part of the Religion (ordering by the Qur'an/Allah(swt)) or the Sunnah of the Holy prophet (not ever celebrating it or ordering it's celebration)

So if it''s not part of the Religion to celebrate it or not Part of the Sunnah to celebrate it, then where do you get the right to call it an 'Islamic-in the sense that in and of itself the festival is blessed" celebration.

The only answer to this is from no-where, and thus you imported it either from your culture or from pre-Islamic traditions or this came from your own whims/desire/mind and then you try to give the meaning of the celebration some Islamic justification in and of itself and include it in the deen.

And what is that called? "BID'AH"

And what did the Prophet say about adding or subtracting anything from the religion...otherwise known as BID'AH?

"And every bid'ah (tul deen) is a misguidance and every misguidance is in the Fire."

I hope this explains it. I tried to use the best source and the most straightforward logic to make it as easy as possible to understand

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

My family confuses this Nowroz cultural ceremony with Shia Islam..... Why??? It's got nothing to do with Islam..

I was just told that we have to recite Quran and Duas on this "auspicious" day :-/

Will someone please dispel my confusion? Has Nowroz got Anything to do with Islam?

On a lighter note... Happy Nowroz ! :)

Happy Nowroz!

It's both cultural for Irani, for all of us is religious as well. Nowroz happens on 18th Zilhajj month also as per Tohfatul Awam and there are lot of amaal for that day including fasting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

As for the Prophet not appointing Abu-Bakr (as) that is not what the thread is about so please stay on track.

And when did abu-bakr the usurper become (as) ?

Really wonder at you peoples brilliance!

You are so clever to avoid questions on Eid Ghadeer and the real sunnah of Prophet (saw), and beat drums on the false hadiths attributed to the Prophet (saw). Which gives you no moral ground on telling us what is bidah and what is not

(wasalam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

And when did abu-bakr the usurper become (as) ?

Really wonder at you peoples brilliance!

You are so clever to avoid questions on Eid Ghadeer and the real sunnah of Prophet (saw), and beat drums on the false hadiths attributed to the Prophet (saw). Which gives you no moral ground on telling us what is bidah and what is not

(wasalam)

Hahahah I am telling you dont bow your head to an idol aswell.

But hey, go do it anyways. Apparently all I do is avoid the questions and the real sunnah of the Prophet and beat the drums of false hadiths attributed to the Propher which gives me no moral ground to tell you what is Bid'Ah!

Plus, its coming from a Sunni, and you liek HAVE TO do the opposite of ANYTHING that is comming from a Sunni. God forbid you actually agreed! :lol:

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

And when did abu-bakr the usurper become (as) ?

Really wonder at you peoples brilliance!

You are so clever to avoid questions on Eid Ghadeer and the real sunnah of Prophet (saw), and beat drums on the false hadiths attributed to the Prophet (saw). Which gives you no moral ground on telling us what is bidah and what is not

(wasalam)

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Be nice, Bro/Sis. Good akhlaaq is the best way to invite to the way of Ahlulbayt (as). Da'wah efforts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...And the this saying defiantly holds true when looking through this thread....

And what is a mountain except for a collection of pebbles

I am beginning to see exactly why some people are so obsessed with stopping Bid'ah. Why some people say that it is even haraam to give any special attention (celebrate) to such days, for the fear that it will eventually become Bid'ah.... It starts of extremely small, and before you know it, people begin including it in the deen.

Here is my absolute favorite hadith about Bid'ah...and Ironically it correlates with my saying!

We used to sit in front of Abdullah ibn Masoud's house before the Fajr prayer

waiting to go with him to the Masjid. Abou Mousa al-Ash..aarie came and

asked us:

'Did Abu Abdurrahman (i.e. Ibn Masoud) leave yet?'

We answered: 'No.'

So Abou Mousa Al-Ash'aarie sat with us waiting for him. When he came out, we all stood up. Abou Mousa told him:

"Oh, Abu Abdurrahman! I recently saw something in the Masjid which I did not approve."

Ibn Masoud then asked: "What was it?"

Abou Mousa said: "You will see it if you stay alive..In the Masjid, I saw a group

of people sitting in circles waiting for the Salat. Each circle is led

by a person. And every person in these circles carries small stones.

The leader of a circle would say: 'Say 'Allah-u Akbar' a hundred times,' they will

say Allah-u Akbar a hundred times; then he says 'Say 'La ilaha Illa

Allah', a hundred times" they will say La ilaha ill Allah a hundred times; he they says:

'Say 'Subhan Allah', a hundred times, they will say Subhana Allah a

hundred times.

Then Ibn Masoud said: "What did you tell them?"

He said: 'I didn't say anything, I wanted to wait for your opinion."

Abdullah ibn Masoud said: "Could you not order them to count their sins, and assured them of getting their rewards."

Then Abdulah ibn Masoud went ahead and we accompanied him. As he approached

one of the circles, he said: "What is this that you are doing?"

They said: "Oh! Abu Abdurrahman, these are pebbles to count the number of times we

say Allah-u Akbar, La ilaha Ill Allah, and Subhana Allah."

He said: "Count your own sins, and I assure you that you are not going to lose

anything of your rewards (Hasanat).. Woe unto you, people of Muhammad,

how fast you will be doomed. Those are your Prophet's companions available,

these are his clothes not worn out yet, and his pots are not broken

yet. I swear by Whom my soul is in His Hands that you are either following a religion that is

better than the Prophet's religion or you are opening a door of

aberration."

They said: "We swear by Allah, oh, Abu Abdurrahman, that we had no intention other than doing good deeds."

He said: "So what? How many people wanted to do good deeds but never got to do

them? The Prophet of Allah has told us about people who recited the

Qur'an with no effect on them other than the Qur'an passing through their

throats. I swear by Allah, I am almost sure that most of you are from

that type of people."

Then he left them.

Amr Ibn Salamah said: "We saw most of the people of those circles fighting us with the Khawarij in the battle of An-Nahrawan.."

- Related by Ad-Daremie and Abu Na'eim with an authentic chain.

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did the Prophet ever Celebrate Norowz?

Did he ever order the Celebration of Norowz?

Did the Qur'an order the celebration of Norowz?

There are many things that are not mentioned in the Quran...so would you say that all those things are invalid as well...?!

As for the Holy Prophet(pbuh) not celebrating it...he might have...do you have proof that he did not? maybe our limited knowledge is the problem here...no? or are you sure you have researched this topic extensively and then reached this conclusion?

Once again i would point out at the fact that traditions from Imam(a.s) have been mentioned on the day of nowroz...so thats proof enough of its celebration and importance.

I found this...not sure about the authenticity but it just shows that our own knowledge is lacking and not the other way around:

Abdul Samad ibn Ali in a tradition narrates that during Nowruz, a silver plate of ‘halvah’ sweets was offered to the holy Prophet Muhammad (S). The prophet asked to which tribe it belonged and what was the occasion? “This is a gift from Persia marking Nowruz, the greatest Iranian festival.” The prophet replied: “Yes, Almighty Allah revived the dead and ordered the clouds to rain. Here, sprinkling of water became a custom this day.” The Prophet of Islam then ate the halvah sharing it with his companion.

Nowruz and Islamic traditions

Edited by farwa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Brother Glow, the point is, we can establish a practice that has Islamic merit and practice it. It only become a bidd'ah if a person says it is Sunnah or wajib or whatever. To say it is haram would be a bidd'ah because there is no shar`i ruling on it in the first place. If its a good practice that has some Sunnahs with in it, that's good. Keep going. But you cannot say the practice in itself is a Sunnah or something the Prophet (pbuh) taught.

For nowruz specifically, we do have narrations that talk about it. So, khalaas.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are many things that are not mentioned in the Quran...so would you say that all those things are invalid as well...?!

As for the Holy Prophet(pbuh) not celebrating it...he might have...do you have proof that he did not? maybe our limited knowledge is the problem here...no? or are you sure you have researched this topic extensively and then reached this conclusion?

Once again i would point out at the fact that traditions from Imam(a.s) have been mentioned on the day of nowroz...so thats proof enough of its celebration and importance.

Yes I have researched it very extensively infact.

Also, how do we know if he 'dident celebrate it'....

There are many hadiths where by Allah (swt) said he will protect this deen till the day of judgment and that it will never be 'lost' as the Jews and especially the Christians have there situation as.

And logically, this religion if this is truly the religion that can give salvation to someone from now until the day of judgment (which Allah(swt) says himself), then it is illogical that this deen would be 'lost' or else everyone after the 'losing' of the deen would be condemned to hell indefinably.

Therefor, we can conclude nothing from the deen is or can ever be 'lost'. It will always be there for those who search for truth and guidance with a clear and open mind and a pious heart.

Ontop of that, there is not a single hadith anywhere...and yes, I mean anywhere, including in your hadith books(thats how extensively my research went), that stated the prophet celebrated or ordered the celebrating of norouwz.

The NEAREST thing you have (which isent even considered completely reliable by some of your scholars) is the 'hadith' where some people go up to the prophet and they tell him that it's norouz and they offer him some sweets and he tells them that this is the day Allah(swt) brought back the dead and ordered it to rain.

it still does not negate the fact that the prophet never ordered the celebration of norowz before or after the event.

Ontop of THAT, the Qur'an itself says follow what is clear and clearly established and stay away from that which you do not know or is doubtful

""It is He Who sent down the Book to you from Him: verses containing clear judgements-they are the core of the Book-and others which are open to interpretation. Those with deviation in their hearts follow what is open to interpretation in it, desiring conflict, seeking its inner meaning. No one knows its inner meaning but Allah. Those firmly rooted in knowledge say, "We believe in it. All of it is from our Lord." But only people of intelligence pay heed. (Surah Al 'Imran, 7) """

If/Although this was revealed about primarily the Qur'an, the world of Allah (swt) then it is only doubled for anything else, including hadith.

And these are only some of the points!

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am sorry i edited my post later on to add that tradition related to Holy Prophet(pbuh)....any comments on that?

And mash Allah its really nice that you have researched about it so much but may i ask how you have carried on this research? Because as far as i know not much has been written about this festival or narrations related to it. I would be really interested if you would quote some traditions where you have directly seen the condemnation of celebrating this day? Right now based on lack of traditions(due to unavailability of information) you have just used false assumptions to come up with a conclusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mansoor Dawanki LA called Maula Moosa Kazim ASWS on Eid-e-Nouroz’s celebration.

Maula ASWS said:

Verily I have examined the akhbar from my grandfather, Maula Rasoolallah SAWAW, and I did not find a report for this eid. And verily it is a sunna of the Persian and Islam has erased it. And I seek the refuge of Allah that you revivify what Islam has erased.

Reference: Aaima-e-Ahlul Bayt ASWS, Fikri-o-Siyasi Zindagi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just so people dont get the wrong idea////

I am not trying to 'bash' those who celebrate norowz or Iranians. If you give Zakkat or read the Qur'an on that day(s) then MashAllah because I did not, even though both are loved actions by Allah (swt) and may you all be rewarded for your efforts inshAllah.

What I am trying to point out here is that there is no 'Islamic significance' of this day and that saying so is a bid'ah. However that does not mean you cannot celebrate it, because you are allowed to celebrate cultural things as long as you don't cross the boundries of Islam.

I think this thread has become more about grasping and not letting to of culture then it is about Islam.

Here is what is says in the Qur'an about such actions...

ثُمَّ جَعَلْنَاكَ عَلَى شَرِيعَةٍ مِّنَ الْأَمْرِ فَاتَّبِعْهَا وَلَا تَتَّبِعْ أَهْوَاء الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ {18}

45:18]Then We put thee on the (right) Way of Religion: so follow thou that (Way), and follow not the desires of those who know not.

also:

لَا تَجِدُ قَوْمًا يُؤْمِنُونَ بِاللَّهِ وَالْيَوْمِ الْآخِرِ يُوَادُّونَ مَنْ حَادَّ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَلَوْ كَانُوا آبَاءهُمْ أَوْ أَبْنَاءهُمْ أَوْ إِخْوَانَهُمْ أَوْ عَشِيرَتَهُمْ أُوْلَئِكَ كَتَبَ فِي قُلُوبِهِمُ الْإِيمَانَ وَأَيَّدَهُم بِرُوحٍ مِّنْهُ وَيُدْخِلُهُمْ جَنَّاتٍ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ أُوْلَئِكَ حِزْبُ اللَّهِ أَلَا إِنَّ حِزْبَ اللَّهِ هُمُ الْمُفْلِحُونَ {22}

58:22] Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.

So please, like I said, celebrate it and read Qur'an, give Zakkat, visit families and do other good and beloved deeds to Allah(swt) and inshAllah you will be rewarded for your efforts. But don't include something in the religion that was never there. That neither the Qur'an or the Prophet ever stipulated. That is obviously purely cultural in origin.

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest

The impression I am given here is that "culture" is becoming the new dirty word. Especially by so-called "purists", who think Islam survives in some formless vacuum with no physical or social manifestation by societies today. That something "cultural" and something "Islamic" is mutually exclusive. This is ridiculous rubbish.

Culture is the car, Islam is the engine.

Culture is the body, Islam is the soul.

Culture is the room, Islam is the light inside the room.

Nourouz is the physical celebration, but community interaction (ummah), prayer (ibadat), charity, etc are its driving force (in other words, all Islamic concepts).

Halal hot dogs, halal kabob, halal general tso's chicken, halal burritos. Are you saying that the meat item that the prophet ate is more "sunnah", and the one's he did not eat (ie from non-Arab cultures) can merely be dismissed as "cultural" (ie. not haram but less desirable because it is not "sunnah")

Islam is based on principles, it is impossible for the Prophet to emulate each culture of the world. People have to apply the principles for their individual culture. And that's exactly what the Iranians have done.

All of the other chatter here is aimed to provide doubt, guilt, or inadequacy. And I'm sure pan-Arabist chaunvism has played a lot into the anti-Nourouz propaganda over the years.

Edited by comrade khodadad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The impression I am given here is that "culture" is becoming the new dirty word. Especially by so-called "purists", who think Islam survives in some formless vacuum with no physical or social manifestation by societies today. That something "cultural" and something "Islamic" is mutually exclusive. This is ridiculous rubbish.

Culture is the car, Islam is the engine.

Culture is the body, Islam is the soul.

Culture is the room, Islam is the light inside the room.

Nourouz is the physical celebration, but community interaction (ummah), prayer (ibadat), charity, etc are its driving force (in other words, all Islamic concepts).

Halal hot dogs, halal kabob, halal general tso's chicken, halal burritos. Are you saying that the meat item that the prophet ate is more "sunnah", and the one's he did not eat (ie from non-Arab cultures) can merely be dismissed as "cultural" (ie. not haram but less desirable because it is not "sunnah")

Islam is based on principles, it is impossible for the Prophet to emulate each culture of the world. People have to apply the principles for their individual culture. And that's exactly what the Iranians have done.

All of the other chatter here is aimed to provide doubt, guilt, or inadequacy. And I'm sure pan-Arabist chaunvism has played a lot into the anti-Nourouz propaganda over the years.

WooooooooooooooooooooooooooooW...talk about not reading before the text book before the test...

When you say

"""The impression I am given here is that "culture" is becoming the new dirty word. Especially by so-called "purists", who think Islam survives in some formless vacuum with no physical or social manifestation by societies today. That something "cultural" and something "Islamic" is mutually exclusive. This is ridiculous rubbish.""""

and

""""Halal hot dogs, halal kabob, halal general tso's chicken, halal burritos. Are you saying that the meat item that the prophet ate is more "sunnah", and the one's he did not eat (ie from non-Arab cultures) can merely be dismissed as "cultural" (ie. not haram but less desirable because it is not "sunnah")""""

and

"""""Whatever other 'less Islamic more Islamic' war you are trying to start up""""""

Did you even read a single post Iv written, even the post I specially targeted to you? The one where I did you the favor of emboldening and underlining what I had previously said, that rebutted the first time you put out these statements.....and now you still pose these same statements again but in different wording!?!?!?!?

Or are you just shooting your posts out with whatever comes to your head?

Lets us all be reminded that there is no nationalism in Islam to the point where it abrogates Islam. I had the feeling this was getting more cultural and nationalistic then Islamic a couple posts back and my suspicions have been confirmed.

The Prophet does not emulate cultures, cultures should strive to emulate the Prophet.

The Word of Allah (swt) does not make accommodations for what you "feel" about it or what you "think" about it or your "opinion" on the matter. All those factors make accommodations for Allah's(Swt) Word.

In case people have forgotten: WE are the slaves in that relationship.

Its not about "Arab" culture or not. It's about What Allah(Swt) and The Holy Prophet Said and did.

It's amazing how some people want to change this religion to incorporate whatever they want into it, to suit there whims and desires.

It's people like you who come up to me and say "Everything you we do, you say its Shirk and Bid'ah, Shirk and Bid'ah, Shirk and Bid'ah"

Well....if you insist on doing shirk and Bid'ah, Im going to keep telling you shirk and bid'ah. What do you want? Do you want me to change the religion for you?

FYI:

Arab 'culture' is Jahylliyah culture in the most pure form.The Prophet worked all his life to eradicate this Jahyliyyah and make Islam the driving force. Just because in the last couple hundred years you see some correlation between Islam and Arab 'culture' as you put it, does not mean that's how it always was.

Thanks to the Holy Prophet, such idiotic ways of thinking were eradicated from the Arabian peninsula. Believe it or not, there are also "Arabian" non Islamic celebrations (and actions, such as kissing your thumbs before praying) that are still practiced around the world (that come from Jahylliyah) and those same people use your justifications and try to place it in the religion and you know what I tell them?

The same thing I tell you

Bid'ah if you try to put it in the religon.

Celebrate it if you want and do good deeds on that day but it is not part of the religion (AKA: NOT something which is mandated for every Muslim across the world to do) and inshAllah you will get rewarded for your efforts.

P.S

Go, Re-Read ALL my posts from the beginning of the thread and hopefully you'll get the point. I am really hoping right now your just mis-understanding/there is a miss communication and nothing else.

P.S.S

Sorry if you feel/Iv been a little harsh. Im not in the best of moods right now.

P.S.S.S

GLOW:

Good post.

Thank You

Edited by Glow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The impression I am given here is that "culture" is becoming the new dirty word. Especially by so-called "purists", who think Islam survives in some formless vacuum with no physical or social manifestation by societies today. That something "cultural" and something "Islamic" is mutually exclusive. This is ridiculous rubbish.

Culture is the car, Islam is the engine.

Culture is the body, Islam is the soul.

Culture is the room, Islam is the light inside the room.

Nourouz is the physical celebration, but community interaction (ummah), prayer (ibadat), charity, etc are its driving force (in other words, all Islamic concepts).

Halal hot dogs, halal kabob, halal general tso's chicken, halal burritos. Are you saying that the meat item that the prophet ate is more "sunnah", and the one's he did not eat (ie from non-Arab cultures) can merely be dismissed as "cultural" (ie. not haram but less desirable because it is not "sunnah")

Islam is based on principles, it is impossible for the Prophet to emulate each culture of the world. People have to apply the principles for their individual culture. And that's exactly what the Iranians have done.

All of the other chatter here is aimed to provide doubt, guilt, or inadequacy. And I'm sure pan-Arabist chaunvism has played a lot into the anti-Nourouz propaganda over the years.

Brother Khodadad,

All of other chatter, hope you not generalizing and meant everyone on shiachat? Generalizing is basic flaw just like all muslims are terrorists or fanatics or all chirtians are bad etc....

so please clarify your stance.

Just to reteirate, not all arab shias or irani, pakistani or wetsern muslims are against anyone. Prejudice has no place in religion, after Imam's zahoor an american muslim will be standing next to afghani or pakistani muslim so we need to keep hearts open and pure.

Don't wanna lecture anyone, this is for my reminder also.

Jazakallah Khair.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

My family confuses this Nowroz cultural ceremony with Shia Islam..... Why??? It's got nothing to do with Islam..

I was just told that we have to recite Quran and Duas on this "auspicious" day :-/

Will someone please dispel my confusion? Has Nowroz got Anything to do with Islam?

On a lighter note... Happy Nowroz ! :)

Nowroz is a Pagan tradition perhaps even pre Zorastrianism.

I know that the 12 shia community exports Nowroz celebrations around the world, so that it is now celebrated by the ethnically non persian 12er shia population of Istanbul (turkey).

Even Obama send happy Nowroz messages to Iran.

Is like celebrating on the 31th of December eg 1th of January. No difference at all... both are of pagan origin.

I seek refuge in Allah from celebrating Pagan feasts.!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×