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malangbaba

Bahrain - Shia Allegiances

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Salaam,

Can anyone here give a rough (but educated) estimate of how the Bahraini Shia population is aligned with various scholars?

- Ayatullah Sistani circle %

- Ayatullah Khameni/IRI trend %

- Shirazi faction %

- Ayatullah Fadhlallah circle %

- Secular/non-religious %

- Others %

Also please let me know on what basis you are making your estimates (ie. You are Bahraini, lived there, have family there, etc.)

I want to avoid everyone and their mother making estimates based on their own whims/guesses

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Salaam,

Can anyone here give a rough (but educated) estimate of how the Bahraini Shia population is aligned with various scholars?

- Ayatullah Sistani circle %

- Ayatullah Khameni/IRI trend %

- Shirazi faction %

- Ayatullah Fadhlallah circle %

- Secular/non-religious %

- Others %

Also please let me know on what basis you are making your estimates (ie. You are Bahraini, lived there, have family there, etc.)

I want to avoid everyone and their mother making estimates based on their own whims/guesses

Without a survey this would be impossible

"Mona also alludes to a doctrinal difference that compels Bahrain's Shia - who largely belong to the sect led by Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, based in Najaf, Iraq - to overthrow their political leadership if it is taking the country in the wrong direction."

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Without a survey this would be impossible

"Mona also alludes to a doctrinal difference that compels Bahrain's Shia - who largely belong to the sect led by Grand Ayatollah Ali Al-Sistani, based in Najaf, Iraq - to overthrow their political leadership if it is taking the country in the wrong direction."

Indeed it would.

That is why I wanted to ask for rough estimates.

The reason I am asking the question is to counter the idea that Bahraini Shia are controlled by IRI.

I am told that the Bahraini Shias do not follow any marja for taqleed (Akhbari Shia?).

What I found about them (I am linking and providing the original source)

Aaah, I forgot about the Akhbari trend in Bahrain...thank you for sharing...

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Thus when the second Gulf war came, Bahrain was already restless. The Shia youth, jobless and resentful, looked like the youth of Sadr City. What they lacked was a Bahraini Muqtada al-Sadr. Pictures of Iran’s Ayatollah Khamenei and Lebanon’s Ayatollah Muhammad Husayn Fadlallah adorned shops and homes. When a local newspaper printed an unflattering cartoon of Ayatollah Khamenei in July 2005, large crowds marched in the capital, Manama, chanting, “Labeik Khamenei” (we are responding to your call, Khamenei).

http://faroutliers.wordpress.com/2006/10/23/the-restless-shia-of-bahrain/

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Indeed it would.

That is why I wanted to ask for rough estimates.

The reason I am asking the question is to counter the idea that Bahraini Shia are controlled by IRI.

Wikileaks has already countered this idea.

WikiLeaks cables show no evidence of Iran's hand in Bahrain unrest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/wikileaks-no-evidence-iran-bahrain

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Indeed it would.

That is why I wanted to ask for rough estimates.

The reason I am asking the question is to counter the idea that Bahraini Shia are controlled by IRI.

Aaah, I forgot about the Akhbari trend in Bahrain...thank you for sharing...

Who has this idea that u are trying to counter? Why does it need to be countered?

Attempting to counter these kinds of lies is basically playing on "their" turf - and not a very effective way to deal with the issues. It is like the nonsense that is being spread around that the uprisings have nothing to do with Islam, and the apologetics by some of the "leadership" of the uprisings trying to appease the "west" that indeed the uprisings have nothing to do with Islam. This just feeds Islamophobia. In this context, it feeds Iranophobia/Shiaphobia/wilayat al-faqih phobia.

What the Bahrani Shi'a do or not do, who they look towards leadership is their decision - if they look towards Imam Khamenei - good for them, if they look towards some other leadership, that's their choice.

My response to the idea that Bahraini Shi'a are "controlled" by the IRI -would be, you mean they look towards the works and words of Imam Khamenei, and the Islamic Revolution in general for guidance? Well that's good - next question.

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It seems that some people have been plagued by the kufr media, which portrays any sort of friendship or alliance between Muslim nations as one being the 'proxy' of the other. We see this in the case of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their alliance with the Islamic Republic. Its perfectly fine for the US to have military bases all over the world, yet the relationship between them and its puppet states is referred to as a 'strong alliance' or 'partners for stability', but when the Islamic Republic of Iran helps its fellow Muslims to stand up for themselves, they are suddenly referred to as Iranian proxies. Screw them.

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Wikileaks has already countered this idea.

WikiLeaks cables show no evidence of Iran's hand in Bahrain unrest

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/15/wikileaks-no-evidence-iran-bahrain

This is totally nonsense! Why would Iran have hands in Bahrain unrest? Iran is not the reason why Bahranis facing discrimination, inequality, injustice and ethnic cleansing by bringing in foreign Takfiris and giving them citizenship... Those are the factors and reasons why there is an unrest in Bahrain... The 200 dictatorship of a family who comes from a minority sect and rules over 75% of majority forcefully....

Iran would be happy to see a Shia government instead of a Sunni monarchy? Of course... But, that does not change anything on the ground, of the realities. Shias have more cultural and religious ties with Iran and Sunnis have more ties with Saudi and other Sunni countries, that is natural... But, when it comes to having a hand in Bahrain unrest and chaos... Saudi and the West are more involved in keeping a dictator who is the reason for chaos and injustice in the country, not Iran.

Lastly, I don't see any reason or connection between how many ppl follow what marjah and what the protests are all about in Bahrain or in Egypt & Tunisia.

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Salam

Shias in bahrain are no longer divided due to marja's and have united among common ground.... even the tension that used to exist between shirazis and wilayat faqih supporters is long gone .

As for statistics they dont exist , however i can safely say that a minority are Ayatollahs Fadllallah and shirazi and modaressi followers , while the majority support wilayat al faqih - among these majority a large number are Ayatollahs sistani , Khamenai , and behjats. THere arent many akhbaris in bahrain , dont know where you got that from ... a lot of the older generation follow Shaikh Hussain Al Alaama , they believe that its ok to follow a marjaa' whos passed away.

I believe its balanced in bahrain , and less of an issue than it may be in other countries.

There is more in common than there is difference , and i believe people should stop this nonsense. who cares if your marja is different , its like fighting or coming to a conclusion about a person , just because he likes oranges and you like apples. The people here are united as bahrainis , not as shias , hence the slogan no shia no sunni one united bahrain. Divide and conquer is an old war tactic , and its been working for hundreds of years , its about time people saw through the same plan. As of iran , no one wants another wilayat faqih state, even the more radical previously known as haq movement leader hasan mushaima , said that he doesnt mind a western style government if thats what the people want . They said they dont want a shia president or king , because that would only put our sunni brothers in the same positions we are in right now , so no need for more division .. the best option would be a similar system to jordan , where the king exists but is only there for international relations and not the control , while the law is controlled by a fully elected government so its fair .....

peace

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Who has this idea that u are trying to counter? Why does it need to be countered?

Attempting to counter these kinds of lies is basically playing on "their" turf - and not a very effective way to deal with the issues. It is like the nonsense that is being spread around that the uprisings have nothing to do with Islam, and the apologetics by some of the "leadership" of the uprisings trying to appease the "west" that indeed the uprisings have nothing to do with Islam. This just feeds Islamophobia. In this context, it feeds Iranophobia/Shiaphobia/wilayat al-faqih phobia.

What the Bahrani Shi'a do or not do, who they look towards leadership is their decision - if they look towards Imam Khamenei - good for them, if they look towards some other leadership, that's their choice.

My response to the idea that Bahraini Shi'a are "controlled" by the IRI -would be, you mean they look towards the works and words of Imam Khamenei, and the Islamic Revolution in general for guidance? Well that's good - next question.

It seems that some people have been plagued by the kufr media, which portrays any sort of friendship or alliance between Muslim nations as one being the 'proxy' of the other. We see this in the case of Hamas and Hezbollah, and their alliance with the Islamic Republic. Its perfectly fine for the US to have military bases all over the world, yet the relationship between them and its puppet states is referred to as a 'strong alliance' or 'partners for stability', but when the Islamic Republic of Iran helps its fellow Muslims to stand up for themselves, they are suddenly referred to as Iranian proxies. Screw them.

No, I completely agree that there is nothing wrong with being aligned with, aspiring to, or influenced by the IRI.

I am not going to get into the history and details of the conversations I was engaged in. But a presumptive knee-jerk reaction to the asking of questions is unnecessary. Many of us check in at Shiachat to get information to respond to outside conversations.

Anyway, these are two distinct questions:

- What are the political and religious influences and leanings of the Bahraini Shias?

- Is there anything wrong with the IRI model, or aspiring to it?

They are distinct questions. And yes, BOTH, need to be responded to if we want to set our own "turf"/parameters for the discourse.

The intent of my conversation, to someone I was arguing with, is that Shias communities are not monolithic. The idea of all Shias being single-minded, under the control of X (whoever they want to target), etc is used to marginalize the genuine struggles and movements of Shias in Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Bahrain, Kuwait, Saudia, and Yemen. Even many of the scholars emphasize that the diversity of Marjaeen is an asset and strength of the worldwide Shia community, just as the notion of Wilayut-al-Faqih is also a strength of source and inspiration.

YOUSIF,

Are Shirazi and Modaressi "followers" different groups? I thought Sy. Modaressi is one of the representatives of the Shirazi trend currently....

Also, I imagine the demands are going to get stronger given all that took place today.

YOUSIF,

What position is the Muslim Brotherhood-oriented Al-Minbar taking regarding the protests?

Any official Sunni movement/group that is supporting the protests?

Edited by malangbaba

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