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YaSeddiqah

Canadian Warships Sail Towards Libya

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(bismillah)

(salam)

The 134-meter frigate is carrying 225 sailors and a Sea King helicopter on its deck. It is to leave Halifax harbor and begin a seven-day journey to troubled Libya, AFP reported.

The warship HMCS Charlottetown will conduct undefined operations that reportedly may include possible evacuation assistance as pro-democracy protesters close-in on capital city of Tripoli to force the ouster of Libyan dictator Muammar Gaddafi.

Meanwhile, two US warships bound for the Mediterranean have entered Egypt's Suez Canal.

The USS Kear-sarge and the USS Ponce are carrying hundreds of marines, a fleet of helicopters and military equipment.

This comes as speculations escalate about a possible foreign military intervention in Libya.

Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper told the parliament that it would participate in international evacuation operations “in light of the troubled and likely ongoing concerns in the region.”

Brutal crackdown by Muammar Gaddafi's regime on pro-democracy protesters has left thousands of people dead, and many more injured so far.

Thousands of Libyan citizens have been fleeing to Egypt, Tunisia and some European countries such as Italy.

Gaddafi has vowed to stay in power despite the fact that most of the country, except for capital Tripoli, has come under the control of anti-government forces as the former justice minister has already formed a transitional government.

source: presstv.ir

Does anyone else smell a possible war? 8 countries have already sent their ships to Libyan waters....

(wasalam)

Edited by YaSeddiqah

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I want the US to stay the heck out of their. As I have said elsewhere let the Arabs take care of their own problems or let that great power Iran do it. I don't understand why the IRI hasn't got involved, I mean their revolution in 1979 was the cause of these revolts, right? That is what they say so their follow through would only be natural.

Does this make sense to anyone, if not why?

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honestly whats wrong if the US or Canada take down Gadaffi? It dosnt mean they will occupy that country. The Libyan people wouldn't allow that. Its about time someone gets invloved

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honestly whats wrong if the US or Canada take down Gadaffi? It dosnt mean they will occupy that country. The Libyan people wouldn't allow that. Its about time someone gets invloved

I agree with you but not the US. Let IRI do it they are responsible per Ayat Khameini.

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honestly whats wrong if the US or Canada take down Gadaffi? It dosnt mean they will occupy that country. The Libyan people wouldn't allow that. Its about time someone gets invloved

That is what they said about Iraq and the Baath party.....And Afghanistan and the Taliban aswell

Edited by Glow

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honestly whats wrong if the US or Canada take down Gadaffi? It dosnt mean they will occupy that country. The Libyan people wouldn't allow that. Its about time someone gets invloved

What's wrong? Because every country that has done that has made a biiiig mistake. Look at Iraq. Do you honestly think that America sticking its nose in the problem is going to give the solution, and out of all nations.. America?

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that's awfully provocative to send two military ships through the suez.

Iran sent those ships not to intervene in the Libyan people's struggle for national liberation, but rather to Syria for technical assistance with the construction of coastal defences.

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What's wrong? Because every country that has done that has made a biiiig mistake. Look at Iraq. Do you honestly think that America sticking its nose in the problem is going to give the solution, and out of all nations.. America?

Cant compare Iraq to Libya, Iraq was a full out invasion and there wasn't an uprising at the time the Americans invaded. Right now Libyan rebels need help, the government has better machinery. If someone doesn't get involved people will be continually butchered. A long civil war isn't something that anyone wants, but thats what will happen when the better armed government mercenaries and less equipped high spirited rebels clash . And Gas prices will be high for months. We All know Gadaffi is a bad guy, even the IRI would agree, so why is it a problem if the US help the rebels take him out?

I promise you the Libyan people will not bow on there knees and let the Americans install a president. Thats the new thing we are seeing here, they now have self determination. "Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me". The smart decision would be to take assistance form more powerful people.

All they need is a couple of Air strikes on government bunkers and military bases.

That is what they said about Iraq and the Baath party.....And Afghanistan and the Taliban aswell

Well they are obviously at loss in those two wars, what makes you think they would want to jump into another full scale war. All im saying is that they should just let some Air force pilots fly over the government strong holds, find Gadaffi and bomb him. Think of it as a training mission with live ammo. The Rebels should ask for some help

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Canadian Warships Sail Towards Libya

The 134-meter frigate is carrying 225 sailors and a Sea King helicopter on its deck.

ROFL @ "canadian warship"! It's a lone military vessel supposed to evacuate Western puppets in case something goes wrong during the anticipated power transfer in Libya.

How does the sailing of this lone canadian torpedo bait even qualify as news? And that fresh batch of several hundred marine boys are headed to Iraq in order to relieve and send home another several hundred u.s. marines who have gone mental. Routine.

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I want the US to stay the heck out of their. As I have said elsewhere let the Arabs take care of their own problems or let that great power Iran do it. I don't understand why the IRI hasn't got involved, I mean their revolution in 1979 was the cause of these revolts, right? That is what they say so their follow through would only be natural.

Does this make sense to anyone, if not why?

On your first point, your "want" is not listened in the USA or in NATO countries.

I agree with you that Islamic Republic of Iran , Pakistan , Turkey, the RCD countries and Malaysia, Indonesia, should show some spine and send their military forces over there to Libya equipped with necessary stuff and MEDIATE the situation within ISLAMIC CONTEXT !!!

Anarchy will be very DESTRUCTIVE and will create lots of BAD FEELINGS for NOTHING !!!

Gaddhafi should be eased out without conflict. Fortunately, in pakistan Musharraf has been eased out without any bloodshed and destruction. The essence is to appoint a supreme court judge - a man of impeccable credentials on the top to carry out a transition and the WEST totally EXCLUDED from the internal processes.

The following is rather easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic8Kkgd1RHw&feature=related

Edited by gonabadi

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On your first point, your "want" is not listened in the USA or in NATO countries.

I agree with you that Islamic Republic of Iran , Pakistan , Turkey, the RCD countries and Malaysia, Indonesia, should show some spine and send their military forces over there to Libya equipped with necessary stuff and MEDIATE the situation within ISLAMIC CONTEXT !!!

Anarchy will be very DESTRUCTIVE and will create lots of BAD FEELINGS for NOTHING !!!

Gaddhafi should be eased out without conflict. Fortunately, in pakistan Musharraf has been eased out without any bloodshed and destruction. The essence is to appoint a supreme court judge - a man of impeccable credentials on the top to carry out a transition and the WEST totally EXCLUDED from the internal processes.

The following is rather easy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ic8Kkgd1RHw&feature=related

I don't understand your first sentence.

Qaddafi is not a Mushy and it is obvious to all he is not going down without a fight and the growing crisis of the refugees will not wait for mediation even if it would work. As US Secretary of Defence Gates said to enforce a no-fly zone attacks would be necessary to knock out Libya's air defences.

The Arab nations or Iran could step up to the plate and start swinging as volunteers. I keep Iran apart because it is not an Arab nation and they probably wouldn't work well together. So now we are down to whether The Arab League or Iran are capable of doing the job.

Many here have touted the IRI weapons(supersonic torpedoes) systems so they can sail an aircraft carrier or two (Gates said two) loaded up with fighter bombers and do the job.

Finally surely Pakistan, Egypt and maybe other Arab States could do the job with all of the arms they got from the USA.

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I don't understand your first sentence.

Qaddafi is not a Mushy and it is obvious to all he is not going down without a fight and the growing crisis of the refugees will not wait for mediation even if it would work. As US Secretary of Defence Gates said to enforce a no-fly zone attacks would be necessary to knock out Libya's air defences.

The Arab nations or Iran could step up to the plate and start swinging as volunteers. I keep Iran apart because it is not an Arab nation and they probably wouldn't work well together. So now we are down to whether The Arab League or Iran are capable of doing the job.

Many here have touted the IRI weapons(supersonic torpedoes) systems so they can sail an aircraft carrier or two (Gates said two) loaded up with fighter bombers and do the job.

Finally surely Pakistan, Egypt and maybe other Arab States could do the job with all of the arms they got from the USA.

The palestinians are also an Arab nation but Iran takes more interest in that so your argument of language is nullified.

As regards the sufis, they are quite brave and have the motivation to go and demolish and burn them to remove "evil" from the earth so why dont they go and police libya too ??? !!!

I thought the definition of mujafiq was preaching and not acting up to it.

why not go and help the afghan brothers being killed by NATO in afghanistan ?

or

helping the libyans with law and order ? I mean they did accept an arabic prophet and its teachings and books in the arabic language.

in islam, there is no discrimination based on language, race or nationality. they are your brothers in need of help as much as syrians and lebanese.

if you feel up to it to remove the sufi "evil" by burning their prayer halls and their shrines, you must then act up to it on facing the USA and NATO !!!

Your whole nation must be indebted help other muslims as pakistanis helped you with centrifuge for electricity and paying for it in the form of 911 inside job and drones from afghanistan.

Why dont the muslim countries develop a joint rapid reaction force to deal with facing criminals from other nations into islamic countries ? and to maintain law and order there ?

Your BASIJIS (may Allah give them all the power for RIGHTEOUS things) are quite upto attack a sufi place of worship YET coward for other consequential operations ?

I think you should read some poetry by Iqbal for lessons :

Khudi to kar buland ..... (ie be prepared before the need imposes) ...................

Thus, the raymond davises decided to use their terrorists to attack sufi shrines in lahore to piggy back on one such event.

next, then some sufis may read what iran did to gonabadi and decide to do it to shia (EXTREMELY UNLIKELY AND NEVER EVEN THINK) or DEFINITELY the raymond davises decide to do it to make complete a plausible narrative.

WHAT DID YOUR KHARAJITE MINORITY IN IRAN ACCOMPLISH BY BURNING THE SUFI SHIRNE ??? !!! in the service of ISLAM or the MAHDI (as) ?????

WHAT DID YOUR KHARAJITE MINORITY IN IRAN ACCOMPLISH BY BURNING THE SUFI SHIRNE ??? !!! in the service of ISLAM or the MAHDI (as) ?????

WHAT DID YOUR KHARAJITE MINORITY IN IRAN ACCOMPLISH BY BURNING THE SUFI SHIRNE ??? !!! in the service of ISLAM or the MAHDI (as) ?????

This Libya thing should have been an example/opportunity for IRAN to deploy military units as a police and peacekeeping force in Libya in conjunction with Arab League or Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Pakistan etc to prevent looting etc.

The public would never have (And Gaddafi would never have) an argument against a joint multi-ethnic muslim force from the OIC !!! but it is NATO country that is moving !!! Is this not a responsibility of the VELAYET E FAQIH with institutions such as QOM, MASHHAD and NAJAF ??? !!!! in your service ????? !!!!!

Edited by gonabadi

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Guest Stefan

UNO, the Arab League, and the African Union are all moving way too slowly in regards to this lybian issue.

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OIC has not authorized Canada.

This has to be only and only an OIC operation.

NATO, CANADA, or anyone else dont belong there !!!

Unfortuately OIC could not organise a pi$$ up in a brewery, and many of the OIC countries treat their own citizens no better than Gadafi is doing now, so they cant take the high moral ground either.

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Unfortuately OIC could not organise a pi$$ up in a brewery, and many of the OIC countries treat their own citizens no better than Gadafi is doing now, so they cant take the high moral ground either.

Waaa Irish your back!!! its been mighty dry since you've left, what's up? Canada will do no such thing as invasion or war.......Our country is not one of war, because of the proximity many confuse Americans @#@$ with Canadians :)

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Waaa Irish your back!!! its been mighty dry since you've left, what's up? Canada will do no such thing as invasion or war.......Our country is not one of war, because of the proximity many confuse Americans @#@$ with Canadians :)

Hi Esposa. I'm well thanks, and how are you?. Just back for a bit, but wont be posting much, just correcting Hajj 2003 a bit when he posts disinformation LOL.

As for Libya, its best let the people fight it out and try and overthrow Gadafi themselves, even if a civil war starts. Outside powers should only intervene if the army starts mass slaughter of its citizens, as they would intervene in stopping that in any country ( or at least I hope they would ).

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Hi Esposa. I'm well thanks, and how are you?. Just back for a bit, but wont be posting much, just correcting Hajj 2003 a bit when he posts disinformation LOL.

As for Libya, its best let the people fight it out and try and overthrow Gadafi themselves, even if a civil war starts. Outside powers should only intervene if the army starts mass slaughter of its citizens, as they would intervene in stopping that in any country ( or at least I hope they would ).

I agree, let them either kill themselves or sort it out. hmmm well look at what happen in Rwanda and the world stood by as millions were being hacked to death, its something that weighs heavily on my mind......what's with the bit part?

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I agree, let them either kill themselves or sort it out. hmmm well look at what happen in Rwanda and the world stood by as millions were being hacked to death, its something that weighs heavily on my mind......what's with the bit part?

Ah well, you know me, probably wont be long till I'm back under Mod review etc.. or worse ... LOL

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Unfortuately OIC could not organise a pi$$ up in a brewery, and many of the OIC countries treat their own citizens no better than Gadafi is doing now, so they cant take the high moral ground either.

Thats why this must be proven by hanging Raymond Davis, and demanding the hit and run vehicle crimes from United States and tried for the same crime.

I think US and Canada are quite deficient there also and court cases can be pulled out as well as police shooting their black and minorities in COLD BLOOD.

Anyone ever heard of Roman Polansky ?

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Thats why this must be proven by hanging Raymond Davis, and demanding the hit and run vehicle crimes from United States and tried for the same crime.

I think US and Canada are quite deficient there also and court cases can be pulled out as well as police shooting their black and minorities in COLD BLOOD.

Anyone ever heard of Roman Polansky ?

Dont confuse USA and Canada our histories and the way we treat our peoples are totally different

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I just found this : What do you think of its veracity ?

Weekend Edition

March 4 - 6, 2011

Canada's National Security State

Why the Conservatives Keep Whipping Up Fear of Terrorists, Criminal and Peaceful Protestors

By MURRAY DOBBIN

For progressive Canadians picking five or six issues to focus on in the fight to rid the country of the current federal regime, one area that is critical to the outcome is exposing the Harper government's construction of the national security state.

I refer here to the commitment of the Harper Conservatives to implementing policies that increase the importance of a war-fighting military in Canadian society, its preoccupation with tough-on-crime legislation, its blank check to security operations like the one "protecting" the G20 summit, and its continued efforts to convince Canadians that they face the constant risk of terrorist attack.

The flip side of the coin: criminalizing dissent and trashing civil liberties so that opposition to this agenda can be kept to a minimum.

The national security state is a term that has been long connected with corporate globalization and the Washington consensus -- the set of policies established in the mid-1970s to replace the old post-war social contract. Its most familiar elements are privatization, deregulation, so called "free trade," tax cuts for the wealthy and corporations and massive cuts to social spending. All of these have been visited upon Canada over the past 20 years.

But the sixth element of that elite consensus was always there in the background, and reflected the ruling elites' anticipation of a popular reaction to the devastating effects of the other five: as conditions worsen, as wages and living standards fall, as personal insecurity increases, and as the social safety net frays, the threat of a radical response becomes real.

The national security state is intended to protect the gains made through free market policies, and at the same time, gradually redefine what government means to the citizenry. We have in Stephen Harper a prime minister who virtually never refers to Medicare, education, social protection, the environment, poverty reduction or indeed any of the issues that the vast majority of Canadians say they care about.

Both the Liberals and the Conservatives have committed themselves to this broader agenda of diminishing the government's social role. But the Harper government has committed itself to changing the Canadian political culture in such a way that bringing it back to equilibrium could be difficult. Under former armed forces Chief Rick Hillier, the military was suddenly everywhere, showing up at public picnics and cultural events, and our "mission" in Afghanistan seemed to define the country in Harper's political spin. Only when he realized the mission was a disaster did the military hype die down.

But building up the military, at stupendous cost, is still on the agenda. We now spend more on the military in real (inflation-adjusted) dollars than at any time since the Second World War. The Lockheed Martin F35 fighter-bombers (which with inevitable cost overruns could cost us $20-30 billion) are just the latest toys to be ordered for the armed forces. No one honestly thinks they are being sought for any real military purpose. These stealth weapons are designed for one thing: to slip undetected past an enemy's defenses in a first strike, "shock and awe" attack. Which enemy? And then what? We send in our army? This role is only plausible if it is in support of some new U.S. adventure.

Real defense department needs -- such as support/supply ships (critical in humanitarian missions), icebreakers to patrol the Arctic and heavy transport planes are all higher priorities. It demonstrates that the purpose of the F35s is political and cultural, not military. The commitment is to “interoperability” with the US military, not to Canadian security needs.

Ratcheting up fear as crime drops

The law and order agenda of the government is another front in the cultural war being waged by Harper against his own country. The fact that he keeps re-introducing the crime bills and then letting them die suggests that one of his main purposes is just to keep the fear of crime alive.

It's a tough job. Crime in Canada has been declining for almost 30 years and everyone in government knows it. So we are treated to Stockwell Day (the born-again Christians’ man in the cabinet) claiming with a straight face that we need the prisons for unreported crime. (As I was going up the stair, I met a man who wasn't there...)

The crime rate is down almost 15 per cent since 1994-95. Homicide rates are at the lowest rate in 30 years; firearm homicides have decreased in the past 15 years by 37 per cent. Mr. Harper, of course, tried to eliminate one of the major contributors to the decline in gun deaths: the long gun registry. Murders with rifles and shotguns have decreased dramatically, from 107 in 1991 to 32 in 2007 because of the stronger controls on firearms.

And the cost of this phony war on crime? Just the new law limiting the credit given to prisoners for time served in custody before trial will cost $1 billion to implement and billions more to maintain, according to a study commissioned by parliamentary budget officer Kevin Page. The study had to use estimates because the government refused to hand over specific data.

The total costs for prisons in 2003-04 was $1 billion for provincial correctional centers and $1.447 billion for federal penitentiaries. The sentencing legislation alone will increase that by no less than 40 per cent. The law will double the number of inmates by 2015 and more than double the cost of incarceration in federal and provincial facilities from an estimated $4.4 billion to $9.5 billion, most of which will be paid for by the provinces.

The government never lets pass an opportunity to remind people of the war on terror and just how close we are to being attacked. Last November, Public Safety Minister Vic Toews told the Halifax International Security Forum that serious intelligence reports about potential terrorist threats to Canada cross his desk "almost daily." A more irresponsible and obviously false declaration is hard to imagine.

When it comes to security operations, it seems it is simply carte blanche from the PMO. The obscene cost of hosting the G8 and G20 summits in Toronto ($1 billion) is a case in point. There seemed to be no budget set at all -- just an open check book to spend whatever security agencies wanted. Money was no object. The government recently released what it says is the cost for security: $675 million, multiples of what any other country has ever spent on security for these summits.

Cracking protesters' heads

But it wasn't just the free-flowing cash that revealed the results of a growing security state. The unprecedented behavior of the police in Toronto demonstrated just how the culture gradually changes when a new normal gets established. Arresting 1,000 people (a Canadian record); raiding the sleeping quarters of demonstrators and hauling them all off to jail (all charges later dismissed); corralling hundreds of peaceful demonstrators -- and bystanders -- and refusing to let them out of the ring of riot police while it poured rain for several hours; deliberate and systematic humiliation of those arrested; denial of food and water and legal counsel; and the apparently deliberate abandonment of police cars so the anarchist Black Bloc (also police?) could burn them -- in a planned effort to justify the later brutality.

We will probably never know how all of this happened, but if it was not ordered and co-coordinated it might just as well have been. The results were the same. What other objective, except to criminalize dissent, could have been in the minds of the cops who carried out the abuse and in the minds of the prosecutors who validated it?

There are many other examples that could be listed, including the harassment of anti-Olympics activists in Vancouver by special Olympic cops who accosted people at subways stations, at workplaces and on the street.

Each time these outrages go unchallenged by federal opposition politicians, the national security state clicks one notch forward and “normal” gets a bit worse. When tough-on-crime bills sail through almost without comment even when crime is declining, and when we are spending billions and billions on defense when we have no enemies, there is something terribly wrong with the body politic.

The country is changing before our eyes, and federal opposition parties are letting it happen.

Murray Dobbin, now living in Powell River, BC has been a journalist, broadcaster, author and social activist for over forty years. He has been a columnist for the Financial Post and Winnipeg Free Press, contributes guest editorials to the Globe and Mail and other Canadian dailies and now writes a bi-weekly column for the on-line journals the Tyee and rabble.ca. He can be reached at mdobbin@telus.net.

Edited by gonabadi

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