Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
ShiaChat.com
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Don't Teach Your Women?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Replies 157
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

(salam) (bismillah) This hadeeth can be seen in Sunnis books. But the Sunni viewpoint of this hadeeth is that it is mawDoo` (Fabricated). لا تسكنوهن الغرف ، ولا تعلموهن الكتابة ، وعلموهن المغزل وسورة

(bismillah) (salam) The Holy Prophet SA said: Whoever teaches his knowledge (to others), will receive the reward of the one who acts upon it, with the doer's reward not reduced.

A trillion articles from al-islam.org and a few thousand lectures of Ammar Nakshwani/rajabali etc :!!!:

Posted Images

  • Veteran Member

(salam),

How do you know? Do we have a marja on SC with whom you can compare my akhlaq? I admit my akhlaq is a bit bad because sometimes I lose my temper (I explained the reason in another thread) and some people post stuff which I don't like. But I'm trying my level best to improve it. Instead of just picking on a few posts in which I displayed bad akhlaq, you should also acknowledge the constant effort I make towards improving it.

Please re-read this (everyone).

I personally don't see a pinch of reality in this. Stop deceiving yourself. You are to show utmost respect to women, but you decide to spew all your anger on them on SC. Oh, and it's not even your fault, I believe... it's your 'anger's' fault.

Allah Yish'fi.

Edited by Basim Ali
Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

(bismillah)

Brother, you do realize that this hadeeth has been mentioned an umpteen number of times within larger aHaadeeth right? Yes, the sanad of this particular hadeeth that just say "Seeking knowledge is farD upon every Muslim" might be weak, but if you were to look through many other aHaadeeth this Hadeeth has been mentioned in much larger hadeeth through various different asaaneed. So by you just going to that one hadeeth, you failed to see that this hadeeth has been mentioned many many times by our Imaams through an umpteen different asaaneed.

(salam)

(wasalam)

Yes brother, rest assured I'm not rejecting that hadith (regardless of the sanad) since there's no contradiction when this specific hadith can qualify that general one. I was just objecting to this approach of rejecting this hadith at hand due to that general one and picking on the sanad needlessly without realizing that it's a 2 way road, many ahadith which are "liked" by the shias are also often weak. For example this VERY famous one, I'd posted it in another thread so I'll quote it here again.

Kafi

Úáí Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä Óåá Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÚãÑ Èä ÚÈÏÇáÚÒíÒ Úä åÔÇã Èä ÓÇáã æÍãÇÏ Èä ÚËãÇä æÛíÑå ÞÇáæÇ: ÓãÚäÇ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) íÞæá: ÍÏíËí ÍÏíË ÃÈí¡ æÍÏíË ÃÈí ÍÏíË ÌÏí¡ æÍÏíË ÌÏí ÍÏíË ÇáÍÓíä¡ æÍÏíË ÇáÍÓíä ÍÏíË ÇáÍÓä¡ æÍÏíË ÇáÍÓä ÍÏíË ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) æÍÏíË ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ÍÏíË ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) æÍÏíË ÑÓæá Çááå Þæá Çááå ÚÒæÌá.

...................Aba Abdullah(as) said: "My hadith is a hadith of my father, and hadith of my father is hadith of my grandfather, and hadith of my grandfather is hadith of al Hussain(as), and hadith of al Hussain(as) is hadith of Hasan(as), and hadith of Hasan(as) is hadith of Amirul momineen(as) and hadith of Ali(as) is hadith of Rasool Allah(PBUH) and hadith of Rasool Allah(PBUH) is saying of Allah(swt).

Grading

Majlisi: ÖÚíÝ Úáì ÇáãÔåæÑ

Bahboodi: ÖÚíÝ

Who in the current time promote acting upon that hadeeth? Name of scholars

Scholars or do you mean maraji'? If it's the latter then your logic is also circular. BTW, no offense please, but it's beyond me how you can call yourself a shia(follower) of the Infallibles(as) whereas you only follow fallibles because they sugarcoat stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

(bismillah)

Brother, you do realize that this hadeeth has been mentioned an umpteen number of times within larger aHaadeeth right? Yes, the sanad of this particular hadeeth that just say "Seeking knowledge is farD upon every Muslim" might be weak, but if you were to look through many other aHaadeeth this Hadeeth has been mentioned in much larger hadeeth through various different asaaneed. So by you just going to that one hadeeth, you failed to see that this hadeeth has been mentioned many many times by our Imaams through an umpteen different asaaneed.

Yes, I am sorry for not pointing that out earlier. It was the Questioner who brought out the hadeeth about seeking knowledge is farD upon every Muslim, not Al-Sistani.

Although, I am not exactly feeling Al-Sistani's response to this question. I believe him pointing out the `Aami narrator (Ismaa`eel bin Abee Ziyaad Al-Sakoonee) in this hadeeth, and that it is found in Sunni books would've been a better approach. Also him mentioning the other isnaad that talks about women not writing has a marfoo` (raised) isnaad meaning there could be a number of people missing from the chain. Therefore, the only connected chain we have is a Sunni chain, then by the principle of rejecting the `Aamah/Mukhaalifeen (i.e. Sunnis), we can reject this hadeeth.

(salam)

Salam bro, sistani trying to explain this hadees by stating time period is itself a proof that he doesn't want to reject it. We just need to check what other ahadees in this context speak about. Almost all suggest minimal involvement outside except for few purposes. And texhing Quran itself is a prove that all necessary knowledge has been taught with exception of sura yusuf.

So why deny it when most of it is supported through other hadees and the little that is a cause of conflict for feminists or females then leave that aside for imam asws to explain what is right from the wrong and what is wrong from the right.

Ya Ali Madad

Circular.

Who in the current time promote acting upon that hadeeth? Name of scholars ..and please don't quote ShiaChatters.

sistani is the scholar.

He saying that it could be for that time only is a proof. He said that because he might have not found ahadees which made this hadees mansukh by later aimma asws by stating this was for past only(else he would have quoted a hadees as he quoted other ahadees). If there is no hadees specifying it then it is applicable upto when imam Mahdi ajf rises because no fallible can make changes to islamic laws through his opinions.

Ya Ali Madad

Nader, Thank you!

I am definitely going with al-Sistani and not with those who take it upon themselves to interpret the religion.

The hadeeth doesn’t state what you are claiming. Either state the hadeeth with the exception or don’t quote the hadeeth. Try telling this to your Akhbari buddy.

For me, this discussion is over since I know exactly where my marja stands on this issue.

excuse me I am sorry but u asked me about different interpretations and esoteric meanings it could have in the previos page's post. And I also told this to bhooka and said niyya is what matters.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, that brings to this question now.

Do you know of scholars who forbid women from writing, read surah Yusuf or leaving the house/room?

I doubt you'd find them saying it's forbidden. A separate (and I think more appropriate) question would be how many would accept this narration anyway. It is not necessary and in fact I don't think likely to interpret it to actually be to the level of prohibition. Keep in mind how in the hadiths, a command can be on the level of obligation (you must do so and so or must not do so and so and doing otherwise is a sin) or on the level of advice, recommendation for or against. So look at what it is saying.

In regards to women it is saying don't:

- teach them writing

- lodge them in the upper chambers (I think this is more likely what that part is actually saying, and not saying that they can't leave the room)

- teach them sura Yusuf

and do:

- teach them spinning

- teach them sura Noor

Now, take the list of dos. Would anyone understand it to mean it is _wajib_ for them to learn sura an-Noor and spinning? That if a woman is not taught how to spin, it is a sin that can be punished? I doubt it, so that would mean they are recommendations. If the dos are recommendations, then it wouldn't seem improbable the don'ts are also on the level of recommendations but against. Looking at how Shaykh Hurr al-`Amuli titled the chapter in Wasa'il that he included this narration under (about the karaha and istihbab of these things) it's pretty clear that's how he understood them to mean as well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Scholars or do you mean maraji'? If it's the latter then your logic is also circular. BTW, no offense please, but it's beyond me how you can call yourself a shia(follower) of the Infallibles(as) whereas you only follow fallibles because they sugarcoat stuff.

I also don't see how you can call yourself a Shia(follower) of ahlul bayt when you do nothing but make a mockery of the religion. You pick and choose hadeeth that you like. And you re-interpret them, as you deem necessary. al-Sistani has religious credentials. Do you have any? What is your religious credentials? What books have you published? How many students have your supervised?

I doubt you'd find them saying it's forbidden. A separate (and I think more appropriate) question would be how many would accept this narration anyway. It is not necessary and in fact I don't think likely to interpret it to actually be to the level of prohibition. Keep in mind how in the hadiths, a command can be on the level of obligation (you must do so and so or must not do so and so and doing otherwise is a sin) or on the level of advice, recommendation for or against. So look at what it is saying.

In regards to women it is saying don't:

- teach them writing

- lodge them in the upper chambers (I think this is more likely what that part is actually saying, and not saying that they can't leave the room)

- teach them sura Yusuf

and do:

- teach them spinning

- teach them sura Noor

Now, take the list of dos. Would anyone understand it to mean it is _wajib_ for them to learn sura an-Noor and spinning? That if a woman is not taught how to spin, it is a sin that can be punished? I doubt it, so that would mean they are recommendations. If the dos are recommendations, then it wouldn't seem improbable the don'ts are also on the level of recommendations but against. Looking at how Shaykh Hurr al-`Amuli titled the chapter in Wasa'il that he included this narration under (about the karaha and istihbab of these things) it's pretty clear that's how he understood them to mean as well.

Can you please explain to me how you will you act on this recommendation? Would you be telling the ladies in your household not to write (anything) or read Surah Yusuf? Are you willing to stand behind this hadeeth no matter what?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam,

Brother inshallah got this reply for his question on rejection of ahadees.

Response from Grand Ayatullah Syed Muhammad Saeed Al-Hakeems Office:

In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most merciful and Praise to Him.

No one has the right to inauthenticate a narration or reject it without evidence. There are differences in the ways of authorization between experts in this field themselves. Non experts does not have the right to pass a judgment in this issue, otherwise he will be questioned before almighty Allah in the Day of Judgment.

he says no one can inauthenticate or reject it except without evidence and that experts differ in the authentication process

If the narration was not authentic or does not have the conditions of being accepted, we don’t have the right to reject it or consider it as false. However, we should return the judgment of this issue to the Imams of the Ahlulbait since almighty Allah knows the truth. There are many narrations that insist on this meaning.

so that's what is right and the authentication process is contradictory?? And then thie below given hadees as mentioned by him.

Imam Mohamed Albaqir said: The most liked amongst my companions are those who know their religious Jurisprudence more and those who fear god more and the most that I dislike is the one that when he listens to a narration that he was told that it is related to us and told to be narrated from us but his heart does not tolerate it so then he reject it and he then would consider whoever believes in it to be infidel. He does not know that the narration might have been from us so he becomes out of our religion.

May Allah guide you to please him

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

But what was his question? See here

Many shia brethren (on Islamic forums) have started to authenticate or inauthenticate narrations in shia books by providing their gradings such as Sahih, Hasan, Daef, Mursal. For e.g if a narrator of a well known riwayat is Majhul (unknown), they use this as a proof to say that the narration is inauthentic. Can you please clarify if this is how our Esteemed Ulema and Jurists authenticate ahadith ? Don't we have an extensive process of authenticating ahadith ? Or do we just authenticate ahadith by checking ONLY the grading of narrators ?

I also urge you to look at this explanation

However, one should not forget that in addition to the hadith's documentations, the contents should also be reliable; that is, to judge whether a hadith is authentic or not, we should check to be sure that the contents of a Sahih hadith, too, are not in contradiction with the Holy Quran or similar certain texts (because the Holy Quran is the most authentic source in terms of documentation and contents).

If a Sahih hadith is found to be seemingly in contradiction with the Holy Quran or similar authentic texts, it should be tried to find a justification for it through the available ways of removing the contradiction; otherwise, the hadith would not be dependable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

But what was his question? See here

I also urge you to look at this explanation

yes sister,

it is about general rejection of any hadees realted to them asws. And the hadees in question is not in contradiction with other ahadees because Quran has all knowledge and u teach them Quran except Sura Yusuf and that has been well explained by bro macissac and sheikh hurr as karaha and sura noor is part of the rest of Quran.

My job here is to just let people know that rejecting hadees is not a good idea on any day. We must all try to Understand it without bias and truly hadees e masoom is difficult in understanding and this hadees is general and is not detailed. So, if women know what their duties are(in other ahadees) then they would understand the essence of this hadees.

Imam Askari a.s said: If indeed the ignorants shut their mouth and obey what we say then there would be no ikhtelaaf among them

May Allah azwj expand our hearts for Islam

ya Ali Madad

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

My job here is to just let people know that rejecting hadees is not a good idea on any day. We must all try to Understand it without bias and truly hadees e masoom is difficult in understanding and this hadees is general and is not detailed. So, if women know what their duties are(in other ahadees) then they would understand the essence of this hadees.

We'll, if people strongly believe and accept this hadeeth, then why are they not acting upon it?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

We'll, if people strongly believe and accept this hadeeth, then why are they not acting upon it?

everybody is responsible for his own deeds and how do I know who is acting and who is not. As a hadees e qudsi says: people shouldn't say if we gain knowledge we fear we won't be able to do Amal on it rather u should say if we gain knowledge inshallah we will try to do Amal.(waram collection; sheik hurr)

There could be many who follow it even today and I don't know if they are less or many.

Ya Ali Madad

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

This extreme test case serves as a reductio ad absurdam for the simplistic, literalist, "Jurisprudence is not complicated / anyone can do it - just read what the hadith say and follow them." As an extreme boundary case, it serves to underline some ideas I've been talking about here for a while in terms of the contextuality of a lot of the traditional rulings pulled from narrations and the danger of considering issues atomistically without "idiot checking" the results against larger, overarching religious/moral principles.

How do you literally apply a narration from an oral culture, where hardly anyone could read, let alone write, to a modern reality where reading and writing are becoming more and more universal, essential life life skills. Answer: you can't.

For all his railing against being beholden to "political correctness," Bhooka is in big time spin mode when he tries to defend himself by saying that he's not against girls learning or reading, just writing. But he is either being disingeneous, or simply hasn't spent even five minutes in thinking it through.

For in the shift from an oral-transmission centred civilization to a literate, written word centred civilization, reading and writing have become the dominant methods of learning and demonstrating knowledge. To learn is to read and write. It is to be seen what will be the ultimate impact of the proliferation of cheap digital long distance audio and video communications and the ability to record and distribute video - writing is, after all, an artificial, indirect means of recording thoughts in words and communicating them and was, historically, a replacement for speech. But for the moment at least, reading and writing are central to learning.

Nor is writing somehow magically separable from reading. Cognitively, the two skills are linked. They are both tied to thinking, understanding and organizing ideas. They both rest on a knowledge of letters, sounds, and words. You can't prevent someone from learning to write without preventing them from learning how to read.

Moreover, cognitively, writing is the same as speech, the ability to formulate ideas into words. The only difference is that speech comes out through the mouth, while writing comes out through the hands. (Though I'm sure Bhooka would love to silence the speech of those pesky women too) What is more, in the context of learning, writing is an essential complement to reading in the form of note-taking, annotations. (This has been true for centuries, and indeed, some old manuscripts are as revealing for the notes in their margins as for the primary texts)

So in summary, one can apply this hadith literally. One just has to ignore reality to do so.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

So, basically, we have a hadeeth that no one is acting upon? No one except people who are claiming to be non-Usooli (like Bhooka).

I think you are aware that I don’t take religious ruling from random folks on Internet. Just because a hadeeth is authentic doesn’t mean I am going to immediately start acting upon it.

Whether this hadith is authentic or not we're not obligated to follow it (and stop writing) as it states karahiya and not hurma (impermissibility) of the matter. If Bhooka was abstaining all the makrooh's then he would not interacting with us in the first place or else he's asking us to "write/type" back at least?...So even if assuming it's authentic and assuming it was meant for all times and not a specific era within specific circumstances, still it's halal and we wont be punished for. I agree that people should be careful before mocking it, it's there after all and there is a possibility it's actually Imam's words-better assume the confusion is in our understanding than just disbelieving in it completely. And no need for members to start saying whoever promotes that is not Muslim, we're not wahabis- throwing words like "...is not a Muslim" should not be used lightly whether it was meant seriously or sarcastically.

I wonder though what is the maraji' stand about the karahiya part, does any marja confirms women writing to be makrooh?

Edited by Calm
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

God forbid you should give woman knowledge, they may gain power and release themselves from the chains of slavery. This is haram. And then who would sew all the clothing! I think, that women's ears and eyes should be cut out at birth, so they will be prevented from learning anything and hence commit sin. Let them keep their hands though and eventually they will learn the motions of sewing, which is of course, there is more important purpose on this earth. Ameen.

I mean look at the world we live in right now, where little girls aren't locked in towers and they can run around freely and see the sunshine, i mean, it's enough to bring one to tears :cry: I think there should be publicly shamed for this, maybe even stoned.

Booka, if this logical leap is unappealing to you (probably not in your case) , then you have to options 1) your Hadith is flawed. 2) your religion is flawed. Have the courage to accept one of these two possibilities. Also please accept you will never be as intelligent as me, a girl.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Would typing fall under writing?

I wonder what would Bhooka reply to this. The hadith does not say typing so even the karahiya is questionable now...After all we don't know exactly why the karahiya you never know it could be because the writing of a woman is beautiful and should not seen and typing is neutral and hence ok... [regular members don't answer me about this I know the answer I'm just enjoying the Bhooka mentality for a little ie. hadith does not say typing hence typing not included!].

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I wonder what would Bhooka reply to this. The hadith does not say typing so even the karahiya is questionable now...After all we don't know exactly why the karahiya you never know it could be because the writing of a woman is beautiful and should not seen and typing is neutral and hence ok... [regular members don't answer me about this I know the answer I'm just enjoying the Bhooka mentality for a little ie. hadith does not say typing hence typing not included!].

Another question for Shiekh Supreme Booka: What if a woman just speaks and has someone else write whatever it is she needs to write. Is that okay?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another question for Shiekh Supreme Booka: What if a woman just speaks and has someone else write whatever it is she needs to write. Is that okay?

No.

Man la yahdhuruhul faqih

æäåì Çä ÊÊßáã ÇáãÑÃÉ ÚäÏ ÛíÑ ÒæÌåÇ Çæ ÛíÑ Ðì ãÍÑã ãäåÇ ÇßËÑ ãä ÎãÓ ßáãÇÊ ããÇ áÇÈÏ áåÇ ãäå

Prophet(PBUH) said "............And it's not allowed to speak for the the woman with other than her husband or other than her mahram more than 5 words when there's no alternative for her from it.............."

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

No.

Man la yahdhuruhul faqih

æäåì Çä ÊÊßáã ÇáãÑÃÉ ÚäÏ ÛíÑ ÒæÌåÇ Çæ ÛíÑ Ðì ãÍÑã ãäåÇ ÇßËÑ ãä ÎãÓ ßáãÇÊ ããÇ áÇÈÏ áåÇ ãäå

Prophet(PBUH) said "............And it's not allowed to speak for the the woman with other than her husband or other than her mahram more than 5 words when there's no alternative for her from it.............."

Why, it's not like only a non mahram can write for her? Can't she dictate to a mahram and he writes for her? No hadith about that?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

The literalists aren't reading the hadith literally. The hadith literally prohibits (or discourages) men from teaching women how to write as it's directed at men, or perhaps husbands teaching their wives how to write ( as nisa'akum can mean 'your wives'). So if a woman strives to learn how to write, then she is not committing an undesirable act according to the hadith as it's not learning how to write that is being condemned but teaching how to write. Furthermore, if one woman teaches another how to write then neither are committing an undesirable act as the hadith is not literally speaking to women but men. And arguably, it is (literally) discouraging men from teaching their own women, rather than other women.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

No.

Man la yahdhuruhul faqih

æäåì Çä ÊÊßáã ÇáãÑÃÉ ÚäÏ ÛíÑ ÒæÌåÇ Çæ ÛíÑ Ðì ãÍÑã ãäåÇ ÇßËÑ ãä ÎãÓ ßáãÇÊ ããÇ áÇÈÏ áåÇ ãäå

Prophet(PBUH) said "............And it's not allowed to speak for the the woman with other than her husband or other than her mahram more than 5 words when there's no alternative for her from it.............."

What about typing Bhooka? Can a woman type?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

The literalists aren't reading the hadith literally. The hadith literally prohibits (or discourages) men from teaching women how to write as it's directed at men, or perhaps husbands teaching their wives how to write ( as nisa'akum can mean 'your wives'). So if a woman strives to learn how to write, then she is not committing an undesirable act according to the hadith as it's not learning how to write that is being condemned but teaching how to write. Furthermore, if one woman teaches another how to write then neither are committing an undesirable act as the hadith is not literally speaking to women but men. And arguably, it is (literally) discouraging men from teaching their own women, rather than other women.

That makes lots of sense and removes lots of confusion too.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why, it's not like only a non mahram can write for her? Can't she dictate to a mahram and he writes for her? No hadith about that?

She shouldn't speak or dictate.

Kafi

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): النساء عي وعورة فاستروا العورات بالبيوت واستروا العي بالسكوت

................Rasool Allah(PBUH) said: The women are to be wrapped and hidden things so cover/conceal the to be hidden things within the homes and cover/conceal the to be wrapped things with the silence.

Grading

Majlisi (Miratul uqul): حسن Hasan (Good)

Man la yahdhuruhl faqih

وقال علي عليه السلام: (كل امرئ تدبره امرأة فهو ملعون

And Ali(as) said: Every man whose affair is planned/dictated by a woman, so he is accursed.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Those two hadith are pretty general, not really speaking of anything specific in particular.

Sorry Bookha, i guess women can write(indirectly) after all. Don't lose any sleep any night over this.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I think Nader's posts on Albaani and Sistanis ruling summed this up well.

Be warned. If you spread hadith, you spread ideology. And if the hadith is not of the Imams and you spread it and someone follows it, its is you who is held accountable.

Out of all the people who has the most risk of burning in Hellfire is the maraja, since they in essence, carry the weight of their followers. So they dont say things out of whim.

I would encourage Bhooka to rely more on Quran and hadith, and I have no grudge against Akhbaris, in fact I agree with a lot of their ideology on certain issues.

Also, Nader, where did you insinuate me knowing hub e ali people from?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

She shouldn't speak or dictate.

Kafi

علي بن إبراهيم، عن أبيه، عن ابن أبي عمير، عن هشام بن سالم، عن أبي عبدالله (ع) قال: قال رسول الله (صلى الله عليه وآله): النساء عي وعورة فاستروا العورات بالبيوت واستروا العي بالسكوت

................Rasool Allah(PBUH) said: The women are to be wrapped and hidden things so cover/conceal the to be hidden things within the homes and cover/conceal the to be wrapped things with the silence.

Grading

Majlisi (Miratul uqul): حسن Hasan (Good)

Man la yahdhuruhl faqih

وقال علي عليه السلام: (كل امرئ تدبره امرأة فهو ملعون

And Ali(as) said: Every man whose affair is planned/dictated by a woman, so he is accursed.

(salam)

What about Bibi Fatima's (as) speech? and Zainab in the court of yazid? why did not our 1st and 4th imams (as) stop these women from speaking?

(wasalam)

Edited by AlMuttaqi
Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

What about Bibi Fatima's speech? (as) and Zainab in the court of yazid? why did not our 1st and 4th imams (as) stop this women from speaking?

(wasalam)

(wasalam)

From Macisaac:

Please don't cite extreme examples where pious women had to do something on the outside as a matter of urgency or compulsion, look at how they'd more carry out their day to day lives

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Salam,

I think any hadith which contradicts the quran should be invalidated, the more i read the hadith the more inclined i am to ignore them.

So many hadith contradict the quran, im just starting to think that way more of them are unauthentic then we believe.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

No, it doesn't. This shows what happens when you interpret the hadith literally.

Yes, it does.. Re-read his post, it does make sense in the literal form yes and that's what we're talking about -literally, the one thing everyone can agree on. If we're talking interpretations here, then you me and everyone else can come with a different interpretation and be satisfied with what we come up with but can't convince others of it. So again, keeping it literal (the way brother Bhooka deals with ahadith usually) is making sense and is correcting the wrong way we were reading it before bro Inshallah brought it up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

the wrong way we were reading it before bro Inshallah brought it up.

We?

Talk about yourself, I'm not included in this. I'd posted this hadith on my blog AS IT IS and it was lying peacefully there until a thread was created about it. After that it were the others who started ripping it apart due to THEIR interpretations. I don't INTERPRET ahadith (hopefully, Sister Zareen is listening, although she'll probably ignore it and after a few posts again accuse me of "interpreting" ahadith).

The hadith is as it is. Fallibles (no matter for how many centuries they studied in a hawza) can NOT interpret ahadith. There are ahadith (for example in Ma'ani al akhbar) which explain difficult ahadith. Only such ahadith can be used to see if there's an interpretation for the hadith.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...