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Sorena

How To Explain The Need Of A Successor?

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

I know about the following verse:

[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Rasul) and those in authority (Ulil-Amr) from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Anything else to add?

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The Prophet works 20 years hard work, gets trash thrown on him, sacrifices everything for Islam. The prophet knowing the history of every other religion before Islam. Knowing that the Jews and Christians changed their religion. Knowing that after the Jews walked through a sea that was split apart by Allah, they still change their minds and make a golden cow to worship.

Why would the prophet be so confident in his people? Why would he not appoint someone to protect the religion after him someone who he had 100% confidence in. And the prophet didn't appoint the protector of the religion, it was Allah.

And of course Mohammad was the seal of the prophet, The Imams dont bring anything new into the religion, they only protect it. Anyways you need to read some books.

Imamate and Leadership

Edited by pakistanyar

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

I know about the following verse:

[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Rasul) and those in authority (Ulil-Amr) from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Anything else to add?

The ones who say that are just as corrupt as Umar who refused to give the prophet (pbuh) pen and paper when he asked for them so he could write down something through which we would never go astray, i.e. his successor. As mentioned above, all the hard work of prophet would go to waste if he didn't appoint someone after him, especially at a time when Islam was at a very young age and could be destroyed very easily.

And if we don't need Imams, then why your sunni brother follows one of Imam Hanbal, Imam hanafi, Imam Shaf'i or Imam malik? Why follow some historians Hadeeths and value it over the Quran? this can go on forever. No one had problem with Imamate. It was Ali (A.S) that most had problem with, i call it Envy/Jealousy. I apologize for the bluntness.

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

I know about the following verse:

[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Rasul) and those in authority (Ulil-Amr) from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Anything else to add?

Also here is another piece for you, from Sahih muslim, might not mean much to you but its of extreme importance for the ones in Sunni faith.

Book 020, Number 4483:

It has been narrated on the authority of Amir b. Sa'd b. Abu Waqqas who said: I wrote (a letter) to Jabir b. Samura and sent it to him through my servant Nafi', asking him to inform me of something he had heard from the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him). He wrote to me (in reply): I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say on Friday evening, the day on which al-Aslami was stoned to death (for committing adultery): The Islamic religion will continue until the Hour has been established, or you have been ruled over by twelve Caliphs, all of them being from the Quraish. also heard him say: A small force of the Muslims will capture the white palace, the police of the Persian Emperor or his descendants. I also heard him say: Before the Day of Judgment there will appear (a number of) impostors. You are to guard against them. I also heard him say: When God grants wealth to any one of you, he should first spend it on himself and his family (and then give it in charity to the poor). I heard him (also) say: I will be your forerunner at the Cistern (expecting your arrival).

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

These are just cheap words from the Sunnis. It has absolutely no meaning considering that the caliphate/Imamah doesn’t end with the ending of the Nubuwayyah. Where in the Quran, is it mention that once the Prophet hood ends, the Imamah also ends?

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

I know about the following verse:

[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Rasul) and those in authority (Ulil-Amr) from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Anything else to add?

Then why do they need caliphs so badly that bakr, umar etc ran off from the funeral of Prophet(PBUH) to grab caliphate. :!!!:

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My ahle sunna friend argues that our prophets was the seal of the prophets and that we don't need the Imams.

I know about the following verse:

[4:59] O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (Rasul) and those in authority (Ulil-Amr) from among you; then if you quarrel about anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you believe in Allah and the last day; this is better and very good in the end.

Anything else to add?

what do you know?

if you want to learn islam, then do so as its meant to be learnt, if you want just to refute this friend then just leave the quran for those who believe. the quran does NOT agree with shiaism

sincere advice

Edited by kalim

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what do you know?

if you want to learn islam, then do so as its meant to be learnt, if you want just to refute this friend then just leave the quran for those who believe. the quran does NOT agree with shiaism

sincere advice

Yeah your totally right, and i love how the Quran describes the caliphate of only four righteous leaders, and i love how quran also mentions how caliphs should be elected by only privileged sahabas. And when the quran says the first caliph should be abu bakr, and then list the latter. I love how quran agree's with your Islam.

And especially the part that say's fold your hands during prayer. Quran totally agrees with sunni Islam.

You obviously don't know what shia islam is, noone can help you if you've come to this forum with a biased perception, only to reinforce your believes through burying your head in the sand whenever something sensible is said.

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Sallam Alliekom

Today Even sunni's went through a Guide After The Prophet (pbuh) "Aisha, Abu Hurrayrah..etc" .. and if there is no need for Imams "to a Sunni Mind".. than no need for Aisha or Abu Hurrairah "in a Shia mind" which leads to no Bukhari or Muslim which leave us with no source to where we can get our Sunnah of the Prophet

but anyway

i'll try to explain in a simple way

The Prophet (pbuh) is indeed the Seal of the Prophets.. The Imams Don't bring in New Message or Religion .. their duty was to Maintain the Message as it was Revealed by the Prophet (pbuh)

When a Normal Man Departs from this World, he Leaves Behind Property or Even Children he took cared of who hold his values & Legacy .. The Property Goes to what the man See's fit to hold .. and the Children go to a Guardian who must live with to keep the legacy of the dieing man.

As Islam was Raised and formated from Zero "Taking someone from Jahal to Light" Takes time and must be Protected from the time of the Prophet (pbuh) till the day of Judgement and till we reach the day of Judgement it passes through People who keep protecting the Religion from Shaitan & Man's Power & Will as History Showed "Caliphs" used Islam for Poletical Gain & Power

The Religion of Islam is an Infallible Religion, the Words of Allah (SWT) that was sent through an infallible "The Prophet" and be Passed through Infallible people to protect it from Human Greed till it goes Back to Allah through the Last Infallible imam

By Going through Sunni way.. the Prophet Left no property and no successor to Protect the Religion "The Prophets Rights Been Taken under the excuse of Prophets dont inherit, and under the excuse the prophet didnt appoint a successor".. the Religion was left at the hands of people which is a Gamble as if a Man who raised a Small child and left him in this world without a guide after him to be used or Abused by the Greed of Man, Same as Islam as the Prophet Built .. it went through people and used it for polticial Gains "Yazeed, Muawiyah" to name a Few that Used God's Words and Religion for their Wordly desires that resulted the massacre of the prophets own grandchildren & Also introduced Bidda's into the Religion

in Conclusion, to Allah's Religion in Every Aspect, is Allah (SWT) Decision Alone to make, to who delivers the message, to who Leads the people under the name of his religion to who speak & Guide us through times and We "People" have no say to who should maintain the religion of Allah or Handle it, As Allah (SWT) is All Knowing to who is the Best of People to Guide Us after the Prophet, which HE the one who is described in the Quran as the Self Of the Prophet (Ali) and there is no Greater character than the Self of the Prophet

Edited by Dead-Man

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If 12rs want to shoot this point at us Sunnis what do we do today ? The 12th Imam has been gone for over 1000 years ? Why isn't he here to guide us ? Why didn't he leave any representatives ?

In today's society neither the Sunni system or the Shia system in functional. When these topics come all the 12r Shia can do is create topics where the 3 imams are compared with the 3 calipah ? This is all history. What about today ? What about Calipate after Imam Hussain (as) ? The Imamate after Imam Hussain (as) went into a pacifist mode.

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If 12rs want to shoot this point at us Sunnis what do we do today ? The 12th Imam has been gone for over 1000 years ? Why isn't he here to guide us ? Why didn't he leave any representatives ?

In today's society neither the Sunni system or the Shia system in functional. When these topics come all the 12r Shia can do is create topics where the 3 imams are compared with the 3 calipah ? This is all history. What about today ? What about Calipate after Imam Hussain (as) ? The Imamate after Imam Hussain (as) went into a pacifist mode.

i agree with you, but how are you gonna convince millions of other sunnis whose hate for shi'as grow by the minutes. If history is irrelevant, then what else could be the reason for them bombing shi'a mosques and throwing acids on our processions in Muharram? We see them getting very physical during muharram than the rest of the year. Why every year we hear it in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq?

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(salam)

Sunnis claim that Holy Prophet (pbuh) didn’t leave a successor. But that doesn’t stop them from following Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ayesha and any random folks. This is in fact very destructive. After realizing how wrong the Sunnis are, do you think we don’t need a successor to the Holy Prophet (pbuh)?

If 12rs want to shoot this point at us Sunnis what do we do today ? The 12th Imam has been gone for over 1000 years ? Why isn't he here to guide us ? Why didn't he leave any representatives ?

What about the Sunni belief in the Imam al-Mahdi (ajt) that will make an appearance in the final hour with Jesus (as) son of Mary (sa). You forget?

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If 12rs want to shoot this point at us Sunnis what do we do today ? The 12th Imam has been gone for over 1000 years ? Why isn't he here to guide us ? Why didn't he leave any representatives ?

In today's society neither the Sunni system or the Shia system in functional. When these topics come all the 12r Shia can do is create topics where the 3 imams are compared with the 3 calipah ? This is all history. What about today ? What about Calipate after Imam Hussain (as) ? The Imamate after Imam Hussain (as) went into a pacifist mode.

There is Iblees(LA) the enemy of Allah that has been around for 1000s of years and he cannot be seen but can misguide.

Yet you have problems with an Imam(AS) of Allah who has been in ghaib for a 1000 years only and his ability to guide without being seen.

Seems like our Sunni brethren believe more in the powers of Iblees then that of Allah. Afsoos sad afsoos!

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(salam)

Sunnis claim that Holy Prophet (pbuh) didn’t leave a successor. But that doesn’t stop them from following Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ayesha and any random folks. This is in fact very destructive. After realizing how wrong the Sunnis are, do you think we don’t need a successor to the Holy Prophet (pbuh)?

Have you forgotten the Persian war which got shias to fight against each other.

What about the Sunni belief in the Imam al-Mahdi (ajt) that will make an appearance in the final hour with Jesus (as) son of Mary (sa). You forget?

What is the problem with that ? As I stated before both the sunni and shia system are not functional anymore. Why waste our time arguing about the past. If Sunnism created fasad, then shiaism also created it since the generation after Imam Hussain (as) were not able to defeat the tyrants of the time.

There is Iblees(LA) the enemy of Allah that has been around for 1000s of years and he cannot be seen but can misguide.

Yet you have problems with an Imam(AS) of Allah who has been in ghaib for a 1000 years only and his ability to guide without being seen.

Seems like our Sunni brethren believe more in the powers of Iblees then that of Allah. Afsoos sad afsoos!

Have you forgotten that Allah created the angels before the jinn ? They are the ones who counter Shaytaan's waswasa with Ilham.

i agree with you, but how are you gonna convince millions of other sunnis whose hate for shi'as grow by the minutes. If history is irrelevant, then what else could be the reason for them bombing shi'a mosques and throwing acids on our processions in Muharram? We see them getting very physical during muharram than the rest of the year. Why every year we hear it in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq?

What does oppression have to with being correct ? Even the West mourns for the Jewish holocaust. Also, the Qadianis say they follow the truth in Pakistan and its the reason they are being killed by Muslims.

Also, watch this clip. One shia dude says there are 12 mahdis after the 12 imams.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVea8NDWjI8

This shia group is also being oppressed for saying they are children the 12 imam. Are they correct ?

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