Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
ShiaChat.com
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Aga Khan and His Family


Recommended Posts

Princevisram. as you can see "Courage" did not have the courage to even spell Muslims nor Ismailis correctly. Lol

These leaderless folk think they are Allah (swt) in judging who is Muslim and who is not. Think they have forgotten to leave that duty to Allah (swt) alone. Mind you they have no manifest guide (Imam) to remind them and give them any direction, let alone help them.

Apparently, their's lives in the clouds somewhere.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
  • Replies 185
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

That your playboy "imam" is a fraud, living the high life of a European aristocrat off your dime? Can you imagine for a second Amir al-Mu'mineen `Ali b. Talib (a) would even have done something like

While you continue to show your nasb against the actual Imam of the time by your mockery of him, I continue to be amazed you should consider a gambling, wine drinking aristocrat to somehow put you in

Though even that's a sham, since their current imams aren't descended from the Prophet (sawa).

  • Advanced Member

@ Nizari

ummm.....that was a typo but truth hurts rite?

Who said we are leaderless our leader is TRUE Imam Mahdi(as) not a European businessman like aga khan

Umm I am sorry but you have misused the word Truth, and I don't feel pain whatsoever. For me, you are just displaying plain ignorance.

The Truth is believing in the Usul -e Din: Taweed (Allah is One), Adalat (God is Just), Nabuwat (The Prophets of Allah), Imammate (The line of Imams), and Qiyamat (The Day of Judgement).

The central idea around Shia Islam is the Shahada and the Usul e Din, which I abide to, which makes me Muslim - You have no right to say otherwise as judgement is upon Allah on the Day of Judgement and not upon us human beings.

I never stated you were leaderless, I respect your view and I have a right to my own.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was himself an Arabian businessman.

Allah (swt) has created us in multitudes of tribes and nations, including Europeans, so we may recognize each other.

A TRUE Imam Mahdi(as) who lives in the clouds and or is a caveman, and who does not lead mankind. Bravo!

I don't personally think Allah (swt) is selfish in the sense of leaving mankind without any sort of divine guidance for thousand(s) of years.

Perhaps a reality check would help you guys... @)

@ Nizari

ummm.....that was a typo but truth hurts rite?

Who said we are leaderless our leader is TRUE Imam Mahdi(as) not a European businessman like aga khan

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I will not follow and or do not need to follow some altered or innovated hadith(s). I only follow Allah (swt) and his hujjat, Imam of the Time, Hazar Imam, His Highnes Prince Karim Aga Khan IV, and not a cloud or caveman.

He has left better guidance then Aga Khan

He has left the Quran and the Sunnah/Ahlul Bayat

Why would he leave a form of guidance (or actually Misguidance) that contradicts the Quran and/or the teachings of the Alul bayat /Sunnah??

You do realize its not the first time people claimed such things (to be 'imams' that are divinely guided) and then tried to change up what was obligatory and what was not. There was a famous (albet more successful) man then the Aga Khan who did the same in history soon after the prophets death.

You want to know what his fate was

The Muslims tolerated him, until a certain point, then tried to negotiate with him in the sense of making understand that what he is doing is wrong and is actually an insult to islam and that he should step down, then when didn't work......They completely annihilated that Munafiq sect. And FYI, this was not like the Aga Khanis today, these guys become such a force(monetarily, number of follwer wise and military capacity wise) that the majority of the Islamic army had to be sent to deal with them.

So when people talk about Aga Khan, they forget that as history repeats itself and we already have examples of people who tried this kind of stuff.

Go read the hadith about what is said on those individuals who believe they have the right to add laws or take away laws from the Quran

Link to post
Share on other sites

What a ridiculous post Macisaac, I can even post pictures of Hindus, pagans, atheists, who appear to have more "noor" on their faces than your buddies.

Maybe you may want to enlighten us/the world and post a picture of your hidden Imam [EDITED] since you claim he is ever so legitimate and is the truth.

Wish you luck! ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

What a ridiculous post Macisaac, I can even post pictures of Hindus, pagans, atheists, who appear to have more "noor" on their faces than your buddies.

Maybe you may want to enlighten us/the world and post a picture of your hidden Imam [EDITED] since you claim he is ever so legitimate and is the truth.

Wish you luck! ;)

Honestly, to everyone, even if you don't abide by people's beliefs you should at least respect they have their own. I don't know and don't want to know what you had posted as I am sure it was inappropriate and disrespectful anyway - and being disrespectful goes against the teaching of ANY part of Islam.

Nasb against any of the Imams, whether coming from a Wahhabi dog or an Isma`ili deviant is not tolerated on this forum.

Member banned.

(salam)

Actually the main reason for making this post was to learn what the word "nasb" means as it has been mentioned before as well. I am not literate in this word's meaning and when I Googled it, I came up with "New American Standard Bible" which I am sure is not the meaning lol.. Thanks.. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(wasalam)

nasb means enmity/hatred

Thank you for teaching me a new word for today.. From now on I hope there should no longer be a need to use the word "nasb" or "hatred".. I personally believe these words should not exist..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, but I will not follow and or do not need to follow some altered or innovated hadith(s). I only follow Allah (swt) and his hujjat, Imam of the Time, Hazar Imam, His Highnes Prince Karim Aga Khan IV, and not a cloud or caveman.

Yes, you do not follow altered or innovated hadith(s) but you follow a man who believes he has the right to innovates/abrogate laws within the Quran. (-----That is called shirk!

At the VERY least, you'd think the Imam of the time would follow the Sunnah of Rassolallah, I mean, I dunno how some people can even classify this sect as part of Islam. And LOL at the picture above with the "model" and Aga Khan. Because we all know that all of the Imams from both schools went around women like that.

As for his religious knowledge...umm, I REALLY don't think he has much if any at all. You'd expect the Imam of the time to AT THE VERY LEAST to put out literature examining every aspect of Islam in at least a mediocrely researched/evidence provided way. The Aga khan has no such thing. I know layman preachers (let alone the grand Ulema/Marja) that have put out more literature (and no not memoirs or a collection of speeches) but actual comprehensive works examining different parts of Islam and how it relates to the modern world. Dont even attempt go to the major/semi major shieks or grand Ulmea/Marjas because some of them literally have more books than he has ideas his two "Books" if you can even really call them that.

Shows where your priority's are.

And macisaac, trust me bro, you haven't seen the worst videos/pictures yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Dear PrinceVisram,

This forum and many forums alike on the Internet are unfortunately filled with "nasb" (hatred), and venom.

People are generally on these sites to promote their own agendas.

Where as they have not been taught, and or are ignorant to cordial exchange of knowledge.

This is where the difference lies...

With Ya Ali Madad.

Thank you for teaching me a new word for today.. From now on I hope there should no longer be a need to use the word "nasb" or "hatred".. I personally believe these words should not exist..

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Moderators

Dear PrinceVisram,

This forum and many forums alike on the Internet are unfortunately filled with "nasb" (hatred), and venom.

People are generally on these sites to promote their own agendas.

Where as they have not been taught, and or are ignorant to cordial exchange of knowledge.

This is where the difference lies...

With Ya Ali Madad.

Yes, you presented this very well.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

What kind of Islam is this?!

(Warning: Song and dance. Not to mention corniness of epic proportions)

Please explain what you are thinking as I cannot understand your thoughts.. It is corny but they are a bunch of university students having fun and smiling in the name of religion.. I wish more people would smile when it comes to religion!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please explain what you are thinking as I cannot understand your thoughts.. It is corny but they are a bunch of university students having fun and smiling in the name of religion.. I wish more people would smile when it comes to religion!

Did you watch the video then think about Islam and compare what you just saw to its authentic sources and practically any Hadith out there? You will find things are VERY different.

It is not corny, that was the wrong word. The correct word is unacceptable.It is unacceptable that such "rituals" are connected to Islam in anyway shape or form.

That is what is at the crux of the problem. People mixing culture, personal innovation and Islam, then labeling the whole thing Islam. This has no place in the religion. The VAST MAJORITY of scholars that have ever LIVED agree on that. There is no "dancing" to worship God and there never has been. It has no basis in ANY hadith (sahaih or not) nor does it have basis in the Quran. Actually the Quran and Hadith are explicitly against such behavior. Our religion isent one of those "come to the house of worship and sing songs, clap,dance,speak in some wired language,look at the opposite gender and jump up and down" religions. No, that was an innovation in religion. Our religion, in its most authentic form is worshiping Allah how he has explicitly asked to be worshiped, Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil. That is it. You don't need to take it upon yourself to find 'new ways' of worshiping Allah, because you will never do justice due to the fact that the creator knows his creation better then the creation know themselves. Even with Good intentions, if you try to innovate 'new ways' of worshiping Allah or 'new ways' of doing anything that Allah (swt) has specifically ordained and described how to do directly or through his prophets/messengers, then it ALWAYS ends in a shirk and Bid'ah filled disaster That is SOOO proven with the Ismaili sect and specifically there deedar/Golden Jubilee festivals.

Why don't we just light a fire and dance around it to a "Ya Allah" song and call it Islam as well!.

P.S There are around 1.6 billion people that smile upon Islam, but not when it involves clear unsolicited innovation such as this.

P.S.S: If you watch the video and the related videos. look how eager they are to preform such acts that have absolutely no basis on the religion what so ever. IF ONLY they were this eager to preform the duties that Allah has asked of them in the proper way. If only they were this eager to preform Ramadan fast and Haj and Salah the way it was ordained to do so, one might have a couple of inches to defend this belief. Let alone all these, IF ONLY they were this eager to observe Hijab it might make them look slightly better. However, are they eager to do what Allah has asked them to do in the way he asked them to do it in? No they aren't. However, they are more than very eager to participate in there deedar/Golden Jubilee festivals which has no basis in the religion and goes against the very fundamental this religion was based on.

And for those of you who think you'v Seen the worst, trust me, you STILL havent seen the worst.

Edited by Glow
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Thank you for teaching me a new word for today.. From now on I hope there should no longer be a need to use the word "nasb" or "hatred".. I personally believe these words should not exist..

(salam)

You are very welcome. Knowledge is power.

Brother, I have noticed that you are a very respectful person. You like to respect every religion, and this is good. However, as for your comment about nasb, it is a bit wrong in my opinion. I ask you, do you love Allah? Do you love Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã? Do you love Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã? I am sure you would answer yes to all these questions. Now I would like to ask, do you love shaytan? Do you love Abu lahab? Do you love those that oppressed your first Imam? I am sure you would answer no to all these questions.

Basically, from love comes hate. If you love Allah, you must hate those who Allah hates. Allah curses many people in the Quran, such as the zalimeen, kazibeen, etc.

Wassalam

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
While you continue to show your nasb against the actual Imam of the time by your mockery of him, I continue to be amazed you should consider a gambling, wine drinking aristocrat to somehow put you in a better position.

I remember an interview with the Aga Khan where he mentioned that he has never even tasted alcohol in his life and that he has never allowed it for his followers. He also denied ever gambling although he is involved in the horse racing business. Do you have any evidence for your claims? I am not Ismaili, but if you do not could you please edit your post and remove these comments. Thank you.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(bismillah) (wasalam)

I have had the misfortune to accidentally run into inappropriate pictures of Agha Khan with a bunch of women. Not sure if they were photo shopped but there are many of them. Google Agha Khan Vacation if you MUST have evidence.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah) (wasalam)

I have had the misfortune to accidentally run into inappropriate pictures of Agha Khan with a bunch of women. Not sure if they were photo shopped but there are many of them. Google Agha Khan Vacation if you MUST have evidence.

Islamilsim is very different from shiaism, there are good islamie forums check em out

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Islamilsim is very different from shiaism, there are good islamie forums check em out

(bismillah)(salam)

I have done some research on the issue and saw the way Agha Khan IV spoke, the lack of facial hair, and the pictures on the web really lowers him in my books.

Also the constant re-interpreting of the Quran is a big problem for me as well. I have talked to my Ismaili friend and do ask him questions from time to time. Inshallah I will check out an ismaili (if that's what you meant) forum when I get back from boxing tomorrow.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Did you watch the video then think about Islam and compare what you just saw to its authentic sources and practically any Hadith out there? You will find things are VERY different.

It is not corny, that was the wrong word. The correct word is unacceptable.It is unacceptable that such "rituals" are connected to Islam in anyway shape or form.

That is what is at the crux of the problem. People mixing culture, personal innovation and Islam, then labeling the whole thing Islam. This has no place in the religion. The VAST MAJORITY of scholars that have ever LIVED agree on that. There is no "dancing" to worship God and there never has been. It has no basis in ANY hadith (sahaih or not) nor does it have basis in the Quran. Actually the Quran and Hadith are explicitly against such behavior. Our religion isent one of those "come to the house of worship and sing songs, clap,dance,speak in some wired language,look at the opposite gender and jump up and down" religions. No, that was an innovation in religion. Our religion, in its most authentic form is worshiping Allah how he has explicitly asked to be worshiped, Enjoining the Good and Forbidding the Evil. That is it. You don't need to take it upon yourself to find 'new ways' of worshiping Allah, because you will never do justice due to the fact that the creator knows his creation better then the creation know themselves. Even with Good intentions, if you try to innovate 'new ways' of worshiping Allah or 'new ways' of doing anything that Allah (swt) has specifically ordained and described how to do directly or through his prophets/messengers, then it ALWAYS ends in a shirk and Bid'ah filled disaster That is SOOO proven with the Ismaili sect and specifically there deedar/Golden Jubilee festivals.

Why don't we just light a fire and dance around it to a "Ya Allah" song and call it Islam as well!.

P.S There are around 1.6 billion people that smile upon Islam, but not when it involves clear unsolicited innovation such as this.

P.S.S: If you watch the video and the related videos. look how eager they are to preform such acts that have absolutely no basis on the religion what so ever. IF ONLY they were this eager to preform the duties that Allah has asked of them in the proper way. If only they were this eager to preform Ramadan fast and Haj and Salah the way it was ordained to do so, one might have a couple of inches to defend this belief. Let alone all these, IF ONLY they were this eager to observe Hijab it might make them look slightly better. However, are they eager to do what Allah has asked them to do in the way he asked them to do it in? No they aren't. However, they are more than very eager to participate in there deedar/Golden Jubilee festivals which has no basis in the religion and goes against the very fundamental this religion was based on.

And for those of you who think you'v Seen the worst, trust me, you STILL havent seen the worst.

(salam)

If someone has a passion for something they love, if they throw that passion to something they appreciate it becomes a sign of devotion and thankfulness. This is all they were doing. Sure, you may consider it unacceptable, and even further - haram - but it is just a practice of devotion. I consider Matam during Ashura unacceptable and haram because of the fact that people are hurting themselves, but I can still see how it may be relevant to some extent in Islam and so still respect it as a form of devotion, if I may say, to one of the early Imams.

That was in no way a prayer of any sort, just a form of devotion. There are many Ismaili Muslims who are eager, as you mentioned, to fast the month of Ramadan. Salah, or prayer, is also something many people in the Ismiali Faith look forward to doing.

Since no Imams (not even Ismaili Imams) have said that one must not wear a hijab, there is no problem in doing so. Many women who come to the Jamatkhana I attend cover their heads with the scarf from their salwar kameez before the main Arabic prayer is recited, in a sign of respect.

We follow everything any other Muslim does just in a different way, a different manner, in accordance to the change of times and Imams.

(salam)

You are very welcome. Knowledge is power.

Brother, I have noticed that you are a very respectful person. You like to respect every religion, and this is good. However, as for your comment about nasb, it is a bit wrong in my opinion. I ask you, do you love Allah? Do you love Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã? Do you love Imam Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã? I am sure you would answer yes to all these questions. Now I would like to ask, do you love shaytan? Do you love Abu lahab? Do you love those that oppressed your first Imam? I am sure you would answer no to all these questions.

Basically, from love comes hate. If you love Allah, you must hate those who Allah hates. Allah curses many people in the Quran, such as the zalimeen, kazibeen, etc.

Wassalam

(salam)

I like your thinking!

Yes of course I love Allah, Muhammad (pbuh) and the Imams (as), you are correct. As for the shaytan, Abu lahab, and those who oppressed the first Imam, I don't hate them but rather dislike. Hate is too strong of a word.

I remember reading a Sufi book “When You Hear Hoofbeats Think of a Zebra”. In it, I don’t remember the passage correctly, but it went something like: When we make something it becomes special - as if we have placed something of our own into it. In the same way, everything Allah creates it is like He has placed something of His own in it... Well the quote was something like that... Because Allah creates everything, I try not to hate anything as they are His creations and I do not want to hate anything which Allah created because surely He created them for a reason...

I just cringe upon hearing the word hate.. Dislike seems soo much better!

I had actually read this post before attending Jamatkhana today but did not have enough time to respond so I said I will leave it for later. At Jamatkhana, I changed the quote on the quote board (I change them every Thursday for the Friday prayer) and remembered you :) ... I changed the quote to:

“All containers are reduced in capacity by what is placed in them, except a container of knowledge, which expands.” (pg. 38)

This quote is by Hazrat Ali and can be found in “Living and Dying with Grace: Counsels of Hadrat Ali” Translated by Thomas Cleary.

Knowledge surely is power.

Another quote I found in the same book as I wrote that quote which also reminded me of this post was:

“When asked about something you do not know, do not be ashamed to say you do not know and when you do not know something, do not be embarrassed to learn it. And may you have patience, for patience is faith as the head is to the body; there is no good in a body without it’s head and none in faith without patience.” (pg. 12-13)

Beautiful quotes full of fountains of wisdom!

I remember an interview with the Aga Khan where he mentioned that he has never even tasted alcohol in his life and that he has never allowed it for his followers. He also denied ever gambling although he is involved in the horse racing business. Do you have any evidence for your claims? I am not Ismaili, but if you do not could you please edit your post and remove these comments. Thank you.

(salam)

Thank you, respect goes likewise. Leave aside religion, but common sense tells people to speak with respect. We are supposed to learn respect from young and as we grow older. Jazakallah Khayran!

As for smoking, the Ismaili Imam (of this time) has said:

“...There are habits in your everyday life which cause ill-health, which cause loss of money, and one of these is a habit which I do not want in my Jamat, and that is smoking...”

Both the last Imam and this one have also told us not to drink on many occasions but I do not seem to have the Farmans with me. Insha'Allah I will post them if I find them, but in the mean time, you who are curious can ponder this verse (278) from a Ginan (Ismaili religious hymn):

To Munivar Bhaai sharaab shaytaan ni te piye,

Ane par stri saathe jaay,

Bhaai tene musalmaan mat kaho

(I will try to translate to what I think, please correct me if you can speak these indian dialects, I am a bit of a novice living in North America and a teenager :))

Oh my brothers, only shaytaan (satan) drinks sharaab (alcohol)

and they also go out with other men’s wives (I think this is the meaning, pls confirm if possible!)

Oh brother! Do not call this a Musalmaan (Muslim)

So yes, it is haram for Ismailis as well to smoke and drink.

(bismillah) (wasalam)

I have had the misfortune to accidentally run into inappropriate pictures of Agha Khan with a bunch of women. Not sure if they were photo shopped but there are many of them. Google Agha Khan Vacation if you MUST have evidence.

(salam)

These are all photoshopped. I have also run into them, and first found them in a forum where someone had posted his artistic creations for the world to laugh at. Also you can tell they are photoshopped, just look at the neck to the body.

But they don't bug me. Just like the recent renderings of the photographs of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in cartoons, I know these are all false pictures. All pictures as such are not true as both you and I know, and so why should we feel pain for them? They are but drawings without meaning..

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Dear PrinceVisram,

This forum and many forums alike on the Internet are unfortunately filled with "nasb" (hatred), and venom.

People are generally on these sites to promote their own agendas.

Where as they have not been taught, and or are ignorant to cordial exchange of knowledge.

This is where the difference lies...

With Ya Ali Madad.

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

You would have gotten away with it if it weren't for the Username...

(salam)

If someone has a passion for something they love, if they throw that passion to something they appreciate it becomes a sign of devotion and thankfulness. This is all they were doing. Sure, you may consider it unacceptable, and even further - haram - but it is just a practice of devotion. I consider Matam during Ashura unacceptable and haram because of the fact that people are hurting themselves, but I can still see how it may be relevant to some extent in Islam and so still respect it as a form of devotion, if I may say, to one of the early Imams.

That was in no way a prayer of any sort, just a form of devotion. There are many Ismaili Muslims who are eager, as you mentioned, to fast the month of Ramadan. Salah, or prayer, is also something many people in the Ismiali Faith look forward to doing.

Since no Imams (not even Ismaili Imams) have said that one must not wear a hijab, there is no problem in doing so. Many women who come to the Jamatkhana I attend cover their heads with the scarf from their salwar kameez before the main Arabic prayer is recited, in a sign of respect.

We follow everything any other Muslim does just in a different way, a different manner, in accordance to the change of times and Imams.

(salam)

I like your thinking!

Yes of course I love Allah, Muhammad (pbuh) and the Imams (as), you are correct. As for the shaytan, Abu lahab, and those who oppressed the first Imam, I don't hate them but rather dislike. Hate is too strong of a word.

I remember reading a Sufi book "When You Hear Hoofbeats Think of a Zebra". In it, I don't remember the passage correctly, but it went something like: When we make something it becomes special - as if we have placed something of our own into it. In the same way, everything Allah creates it is like He has placed something of His own in it... Well the quote was something like that... Because Allah creates everything, I try not to hate anything as they are His creations and I do not want to hate anything which Allah created because surely He created them for a reason...

I just cringe upon hearing the word hate.. Dislike seems soo much better!

I had actually read this post before attending Jamatkhana today but did not have enough time to respond so I said I will leave it for later. At Jamatkhana, I changed the quote on the quote board (I change them every Thursday for the Friday prayer) and remembered you :) ... I changed the quote to:

"All containers are reduced in capacity by what is placed in them, except a container of knowledge, which expands." (pg. 38)

This quote is by Hazrat Ali and can be found in "Living and Dying with Grace: Counsels of Hadrat Ali" Translated by Thomas Cleary.

Knowledge surely is power.

Another quote I found in the same book as I wrote that quote which also reminded me of this post was:

"When asked about something you do not know, do not be ashamed to say you do not know and when you do not know something, do not be embarrassed to learn it. And may you have patience, for patience is faith as the head is to the body; there is no good in a body without it's head and none in faith without patience." (pg. 12-13)

Beautiful quotes full of fountains of wisdom!

(salam)

Thank you, respect goes likewise. Leave aside religion, but common sense tells people to speak with respect. We are supposed to learn respect from young and as we grow older. Jazakallah Khayran!

As for smoking, the Ismaili Imam (of this time) has said:

"...There are habits in your everyday life which cause ill-health, which cause loss of money, and one of these is a habit which I do not want in my Jamat, and that is smoking..."

Both the last Imam and this one have also told us not to drink on many occasions but I do not seem to have the Farmans with me. Insha'Allah I will post them if I find them, but in the mean time, you who are curious can ponder this verse (278) from a Ginan (Ismaili religious hymn):

To Munivar Bhaai sharaab shaytaan ni te piye,

Ane par stri saathe jaay,

Bhaai tene musalmaan mat kaho

(I will try to translate to what I think, please correct me if you can speak these indian dialects, I am a bit of a novice living in North America and a teenager :))

Oh my brothers, only shaytaan (satan) drinks sharaab (alcohol)

and they also go out with other men's wives (I think this is the meaning, pls confirm if possible!)

Oh brother! Do not call this a Musalmaan (Muslim)

So yes, it is haram for Ismailis as well to smoke and drink.

(salam)

These are all photoshopped. I have also run into them, and first found them in a forum where someone had posted his artistic creations for the world to laugh at. Also you can tell they are photoshopped, just look at the neck to the body.

But they don't bug me. Just like the recent renderings of the photographs of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in cartoons, I know these are all false pictures. All pictures as such are not true as both you and I know, and so why should we feel pain for them? They are but drawings without meaning..

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

The only thing that makes me suspicious is the fact that his wife and descendants don't dress islamically either. Those may be photoshopped as well, but I mean Photoshop can only do so much.

Link to post
Share on other sites

"Since no Imams (not even Ismaili Imams) have said that one must not wear a hijab, there is no problem in doing so. Many women who come to the Jamatkhana I attend cover their heads with the scarf from their salwar kameez before the main Arabic prayer is recited, in a sign of respect."

Quranic Verses about Hijab:

“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

"... and to draw their veils over their bosoms..."

The Arabic word /xumur/ is the plural form of /ximar/, which originally means veil, but it is usually applied to the thing with which women veil their head (scarf).

The Arabic word /juyub/ is the plural form of the word /jayb/, that means the collar of a shirt which is rendered to the

throat and it is sometimes applied to the upper part of the breast, because it is located near it.

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/index.htm

“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)

Imam Jafar Sadiq says: Modesty is the symbol of faith and whoever has no modesty (Hijab), has no religion.

imam did say wear a hijab.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

You would have gotten away with it if it weren't for the Username...

Yah, Agreed! :P

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

The only thing that makes me suspicious is the fact that his wife and descendants don't dress islamically either. Those may be photoshopped as well, but I mean Photoshop can only do so much.

In my opinion there is no way to "dress Islamically".. If he is the Imam then I do not see his physical clothes and body but rather his Noor (or soul)... Dressing a certain way is a material practice, not a spiritual one... If you judge someone as a Muslim or Imam by how they look, surely you would not consider me one! :)

Enforcing to keep beard in my opinion is just an innovation. Just because people of any religious demonination in ancient times did not have the technology to shave, does not mean it became a "law". The Quran-e-sharif does not mention anything about beard but certain hadiths do. Mind you, hadiths are not the words of Muhammad (pbuh) or Allah, but others who have witnessed Muhammad (pbuh) who deliberated Islam as we vision it today. If dressing a certain way <in an Islamic fasion, may I say,> is necessary, it would have been written in the Word of Allah.

"Since no Imams (not even Ismaili Imams) have said that one must not wear a hijab, there is no problem in doing so. Many women who come to the Jamatkhana I attend cover their heads with the scarf from their salwar kameez before the main Arabic prayer is recited, in a sign of respect."

Quranic Verses about Hijab:

“O you Children of Adam! We have bestowed on you raiment to cover your shame as well as to be an adornment to you. But the raiment of righteousness, that is the best. Such are among the Signs of Allah, that they may receive admonition.” (Quran 7:26)

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

"... and to draw their veils over their bosoms..."

The Arabic word /xumur/ is the plural form of /ximar/, which originally means veil, but it is usually applied to the thing with which women veil their head (scarf).

The Arabic word /juyub/ is the plural form of the word /jayb/, that means the collar of a shirt which is rendered to the

throat and it is sometimes applied to the upper part of the breast, because it is located near it.

http://www.maaref-foundation.com/english/index.htm

“O Prophet, tell your wives and your daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round them (when they go abroad). That will be better, so that they may be recognised and not annoyed. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.” (Quran 33:59)

Imam Jafar Sadiq says: Modesty is the symbol of faith and whoever has no modesty (Hijab), has no religion.

imam did say wear a hijab.

I may not be experienced as some may be here, but I do have an opinion which I would like to share. In the above quotes from the Qur'an-e-sharif, they mention to the women to cover their bossoms. I Googled the word (yes I did just use Google as a verb) and it came up with: "chest, breast; the pectoral muscles and mammae of the human, especially the female human". The quotes you have shared make perfect sense to me as well: each women must cover their breasts and act in a modest way.

Now I will try to dissect the quote below with a personal interpretation:

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

Interpretation:

And tell those women who believe to lower their eyes (from viewing mischief) and guard their modesty (literal definition: having a limited and not overly high opinion of oneself and one's abilities); that they should not display their beauty and ornaments (private parts) except what must ordinarily seen (i.e. ones face/hair/feet/hands); that they should draw their veils over their bosoms (once again, chest/breast) and not display their beauty except to their............. or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex (this means conversation is most probably dealing with private parts anyway)....... And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.

"Modesty is the symbol of faith and whoever has no modesty (Hijab), has no religion." - Imam Jafar Sadiq

What a beautiful quote! Again though I believe modesty is "having a limited and not overly high opinion of oneself and one's abilities" and not headscarf, otherwise when translated to english the word headscarf would have been used and not modesty.

If Allah wanted women to cover their heads then it could have been said in a much clearer way (i.e. And tell those women who believe to cover their heads with headscarfs..) so in my opinion, the words "modesty" and "bossoms" have little relation to "headscarf" and I feel rather than religion, the headscarf is Arab culture and tradition - this could also be why Catholics in some parts of Arabia wear a headscarf before entering their Church. The fact that headscarfs were worn before the Qur'an and Muhammad existed also show this may have been tradition/culture rather than religion. Again this is but an interpretation which will most likely not be accepted here, as it is hard to get acceptance here with these kind of matters. Some people here may have wanted to know my opinion so I shared it as an interpretation only and I do not mean to offend anyone here. Of course this interpretation would be something I would explain if I were a girl, but since I am not I cannot speak on another's behalf and this is only for an example (I would guess) which someone who was a female Ismaili would reply..

I don't have a problem with women wearing a Hijab as I think it is a wonderful tradition carried from the time of the Prophet (pbuh) but the reasons I have stated explain in my opinion why it is more so tradition over religion and it is not mandatory. I feel it is a choice upon every woman to decide if they wish to wear it or not.

(wasalam)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember an interview with the Aga Khan where he mentioned that he has never even tasted alcohol in his life and that he has never allowed it for his followers. He also denied ever gambling although he is involved in the horse racing business. Do you have any evidence for your claims? I am not Ismaili, but if you do not could you please edit your post and remove these comments. Thank you.

Yeah, there's an interview with some Western mag from the 60s where he states that. I don't know if he's continued to be a teetotaller (if he ever has been one), though there's no doubt that he profits from the sale of alcohol in his hotel chain, and I'd be a bit surprised if the lavish parties he throws are really all alcohol free (read this about this one for instance that talks about no glass being left empty as well as the toast he gave http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/node/2641 with music and dancing to boot).

And in regards to his predecessor, Aga Khan III, I doubt it's water that's in this bottle...

73522420.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548D91F38D4792EBF50183BCFABF138BE519779F1405FB92269

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yah, Agreed! :P

In my opinion there is no way to "dress Islamically".. If he is the Imam then I do not see his physical clothes and body but rather his Noor (or soul)... Dressing a certain way is a material practice, not a spiritual one... If you judge someone as a Muslim or Imam by how they look, surely you would not consider me one! :)

Enforcing to keep beard in my opinion is just an innovation. Just because people of any religious demonination in ancient times did not have the technology to shave, does not mean it became a "law". The Quran-e-sharif does not mention anything about beard but certain hadiths do. Mind you, hadiths are not the words of Muhammad (pbuh) or Allah, but others who have witnessed Muhammad (pbuh) who deliberated Islam as we vision it today. If dressing a certain way <in an Islamic fasion, may I say,> is necessary, it would have been written in the Word of Allah.

--------Jababah al-Walibiyah states in al-Kafi: “I once saw the Commander of the faithful, Ali (as) strolling in the courtyard with a two pronged staff and he was striking the fishmongers with it, who were selling fish which were unlawful to eat. And at the same time he was saying to them: O’ Fishmongers[1], you are similar to those who were from amongst the Banu Israil who were transformed (into apes), and similar to those who used to shave their beards and lengthen their moustaches from amongst the soldiers of Banu Marwan (who transgressed in the land)

http://www.al-islam.org/Islamic_perspective_beard/

I may not be experienced as some may be here, but I do have an opinion which I would like to share. In the above quotes from the Qur'an-e-sharif, they mention to the women to cover their bossoms. I Googled the word (yes I did just use Google as a verb) and it came up with: "chest, breast; the pectoral muscles and mammae of the human, especially the female human". The quotes you have shared make perfect sense to me as well: each women must cover their breasts and act in a modest way.

Now I will try to dissect the quote below with a personal interpretation:

“And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear therof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands, their fathers, their husbands' fathers, their sons, their husbands' sons, their brothers, or their brothers' sons or their sisters' sons, or their women or the servants whom their right hands possess, or male servants free of physical needs, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex, and that they should not strike their feet in order to draw attention to their hidden ornaments. And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.” (Quran 24:31).

-------The Arabic word /xumur/ is the plural form of /ximar/, which originally means veil, but it is usually applied to the thing with which women veil their head (scarf).

Interpretation:

And tell those women who believe to lower their eyes (from viewing mischief) and guard their modesty (literal definition: having a limited and not overly high opinion of oneself and one's abilities); that they should not display their beauty and ornaments (private parts) except what must ordinarily seen (i.e. ones face/hair/feet/hands); that they should draw their veils over their bosoms (once again, chest/breast) and not display their beauty except to their............. or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex (this means conversation is most probably dealing with private parts anyway)....... And O you Believers, turn you all together towards Allah, that you may attain Bliss.

--- ----if u notice the word veil there:

1. A length of cloth worn by women over the head, shoulders, and often the face.

2. A length of netting attached to a woman's hat or habit, worn for decoration or to protect the head and face.

Know if you see :

should draw their veils over their bosoms

clearly means the veil up to women breast. Veil basically meaning covering yourself with something over you head up to your breast>>> which is bosoms.

---------

"Modesty is the symbol of faith and whoever has no modesty (Hijab), has no religion." - Imam Jafar Sadiq

What a beautiful quote! Again though I believe modesty is "having a limited and not overly high opinion of oneself and one's abilities" and not headscarf, otherwise when translated to english the word headscarf would have been used and not modesty.

--------------Imam Ali said: Fatimah and I found Rasulollah (S) crying and we asked him for the reason. Rasulollah (S) replied, "When I was ascended to the heavens I saw some of the women of my Ummah in severe torment . . . He (S) said:

"I saw a woman hanging by her hair while her brain boiling"

Then Rasulollah (S) said:

As for the woman who was hanging by her hair, this was because she did not use to cover her hair from men.

[Bihar al-Anwar, volume 100, p245]

If Allah wanted women to cover their heads then it could have been said in a much clearer way (i.e. And tell those women who believe to cover their heads with headscarfs..) so in my opinion, the words "modesty" and "bossoms" have little relation to "headscarf" and I feel rather than religion, the headscarf is Arab culture and tradition - this could also be why Catholics in some parts of Arabia wear a headscarf before entering their Church. The fact that headscarfs were worn before the Qur'an and Muhammad existed also show this may have been tradition/culture rather than religion. Again this is but an interpretation which will most likely not be accepted here, as it is hard to get acceptance here with these kind of matters. Some people here may have wanted to know my opinion so I shared it as an interpretation only and I do not mean to offend anyone here. Of course this interpretation would be something I would explain if I were a girl, but since I am not I cannot speak on another's behalf and this is only for an example (I would guess) which someone who was a female Ismaili would reply..

another tasfeer : http://quran.al-islam.org/

Aqa Mahdi Puya says:

These verses contain the legislation regarding modesty in dress, and discipline in intermingling of sexes, for both men and women. Women are not allowed to display their parts of body, adorned or not, to men except those mentioned in verse 31. They have to cover their bodies except face, hands (from the wrist) and feet (including ankles), but they should not be adorned as to stimulate sexual desire when they go out of their homes. There is no restriction on them if they have to come out from their houses. In any event what the Muslim women are doing under the influence of western civilisation is against the tenets of Islam.

The reason hijab is worn to protect a women from mens lustful eyes and many more reasons:

such as this

1. Head covering is a sign of purity and diginty. It highlights the Muslim woman as a pure, chaste woman and sets her apart from the immoral behavior associated with women who dress immodestly.

2. The Hijab Is a Sort of "Screen" between the chaste Muslim woman and the evil that exists in the world. When a woman wears a hijab she is less likely to be harassed by men with lusty motives; She is less likely to be exploited for her beauty and feminity.

3. The Hijab allows a woman to move about outside the confines of her home With her attention on the tasks she has set out to do. The Muslim woman does not try to impress anyone but Allah when outside of her home. She is not concerned if men find her attractive, or if people are impressed because she has the latest fashions, or the newest hairstyle. She leaves her home as a self-confident part of human race,not as a fashion-plate seeking stares and adoration in order to gain self-esteem.

4.The hijab cuts down on competition among women. How many people in the West sacrifice financial savings and health in order to have plastic surgery-in a desperate attempt to meet up to an unrealistic standard of beauty.

5.IN Islam, Women are appreciated for their Knowledge, piety and Contribution to society. When women wear hijab one finds that the most beautiful women are not necessarily the most popular. Rather, a woman is assessed for her mind, and not just superficial physical traits.

Christianity:

Corinthians 11:5

But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head, for she is one and the same as the woman whose head is shaved

Genesis 24:65

She said to the servant, "Who is that man walking in the field to meet us?" And the servant said, "He is my master." Then she took her veil and covered herself.

Corinthians 11:13

Judge for yourselves: is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered

Its not a tradtion but a must thing according Christians bible :)

I don't have a problem with women wearing a Hijab as I think it is a wonderful tradition carried from the time of the Prophet (pbuh) but the reasons I have stated explain in my opinion why it is more so tradition over religion and it is not mandatory. I feel it is a choice upon every woman to decide if they wish to wear it or not.

please the read link here:

(wasalam)

(salaam)

i put the answer in your quote its either in italic or bold.

(wsalaam)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yeah, there's an interview with some Western mag from the 60s where he states that. I don't know if he's continued to be a teetotaller (if he ever has been one), though there's no doubt that he profits from the sale of alcohol in his hotel chain, and I'd be a bit surprised if the lavish parties he throws are really all alcohol free (read this about this one for instance that talks about no glass being left empty as well as the toast he gave http://www.newyorksocialdiary.com/node/2641 with music and dancing to boot).

And in regards to his predecessor, Aga Khan III, I doubt it's water that's in this bottle...

73522420.jpg?v=1&c=NewsMaker&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548D91F38D4792EBF50183BCFABF138BE519779F1405FB92269

Okay so I'm not going to bother replying until someone here is interested to learn for the sake of learning about another section of Islam and respecting the beliefs of it. Some people on this forum are so greedy for knowledge so that they can say "I know more so now I can prove wrong/criticize"... I am not talking about everyone here, just a few who like to stir the pot. I am not one who likes debates; I have said this before. They simply cannot accept the fact that I am from another culture of Islam and I practice things differently.. Why? Well iv'e tried to explain several times but every time there's always one person who tries to criticize..

I don't care if you call me a non-Muslim because you are not one to judge. It is between Allah and myself who knows I am Muslim. My faith is strong and people here wont change that. May Allah forgive me if I have said anything wrong.

If you don't want to learn about Ismaili Islam from an Ismaili, you can find your own way. I just don't feel the need to try and express my interpretations of Islam to people who don't have a sense of brotherhood. I have tried to be friendly with everyone here but some people just do not show respect and debates are not my cup of tea.

"Show forgiveness, speak for justice and avoid the ignorant." 7:199

Khuda Hafiz

(salaam)

i put the answer in your quote its either in italic or bold.

(wsalaam)

Thanks for your replies but I don't like debates and feel they are not worthy of anything, especially not on the topic of religion. If you would like me to say it any other words "you win" if that is what makes you happy. I was just sharing my interpretation which I said before you do not have to accept nor agree with.

This is a quote which I stated earlier in another thread on why I don't feel debates on religion are right:

I'm not a big fan of debates and proving each other wrong or right, so I am not going to further post my opinions.. You can accept it as surrender or weakness if you'd like, but I am doing it in the name of peace. I answer to provide understanding, not to spark debate - I'm just not that type.. I feel that as we debate and prove each other, our brotherhood separates. Again, I would not know, as I am probably not as experienced as the most of the members on this forum. May Allah guide us all.

"Do not commit yourself to lengthy discussions of religion- such talk only succeeds in making religion a complex and confused matter. God has made religion easy and simple."

- Prophet Muhammad (Essential Sufism, pg. 89)

"My religion is right! No my religion is right! No the way I practice is right! No the way I do is correct!" --> We sound like little kids.

The fact is, I am praying to the same God you and everyone else is.

Khuda Hafiz

(wasalam)

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I struck a nerve. Or was it seeing that picture of your "Imam" in a tux next to a blonde with wine on the table that set you at ill ease? You know, you sound like a nice enough guy. In sha Allah you'll wake up and see how hoodwinked you are being by these impostor aristocrats living the high life off your dime.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people believe this guy is an Imam, when the fact of the matter is he has very little religious knowledge. Imamat (both divine and non Divine) is something that has to be proven via actions and works.

Also, we would learn about Ismailsam our own way except for the fact that JammaKhanna's are not open to Non isamili's and there is not 1 Major Ismali scholar putting out work/debating about Ismailisam. Some of the things the Aga Khan does/says are in clear contradiction to the Rashidun Caliphate, Sunnah of the prophet and Imams from both schools. I mean, if all three of those factors agree on something, then you can say it is authentic without a doubt.

From the extensive amount of work I have been able to gather I think that Ismailisam is the Jahliyah part of the Sub-Content culture mixed in with Personal Family benefit mixed in with Islam. Then, the WHOLE thing is labeled Islam.

Look In the Quran where of talks about people who followed just because there fathers follow and refused the guidance and what became of them in the end. That verse can just as well relate to point above and the points below

You should Open your eyes and genuinely examine Islam from other sources and then see what was said, who said those things/who that was narrated by and what there history/reputation is. Then see if the Aga Khan seems to be in accordance with the religion or not.

Im sorry to say, but there were much greater men in the history of Islam then the Aga Khan that are respected by practically all schools in Islam. If you only look at some of the things they have to say you will find that either they, those who were right next to the Prophet (pbuh) (and in some cases the Prophet (pbuh) himself ) were wrong or the Aga Khan is wrong.

And Just to get a starter: Even The Prophet/Imams/Major Scholars could not take away or add to the religion.Defining the religion in te sense of what is obligatory and what isent and what is forbidden and what isent, that's a a task SOLELY left to Allah (swt). We pray the way he wants us to pray. We fast the way he wants us to fast. We go on pilgrimages where he wants us the way and how he wants us to go on them. We stay away what he tells us to stay away from. Etc etc. That is a fundamental concept of Islam. However, Your Aga Khan things otherwise.

Edited by Glow
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I think I struck a nerve. Or was it seeing that picture of your "Imam" in a tux next to a blonde with wine on the table that set you at ill ease?

No, what set me at ill ease is how sickening it is that one Muslim cannot accept another as a Muslim in the Ummah; how one Muslim tries to downthrow another; how one Muslim cannot act with respect to another; and how one Muslim cannot appreciate another. That sickens me.

You know, you sound like a nice enough guy. In sha Allah you'll wake up and see how hoodwinked you are being by these impostor aristocrats living the high life off your dime.

Thanks, you don't sound all so bad yourself. Inshallah you will learn to accept others and their beliefs as they are.

PS: You know, I have a story for you. It is not often that youth get opportunaties to teach in Jamatkhana, but I was lucky to be appointed as a teacher of the primary students at my Jamatkhana. It has been a year now and I teach them from the Talim Curriculum which has been launched for decades, I was taught the same when I was young. Ironically, Friday is the day I read a story to the children and teach. Today we read book three of the pre-school set which I don't have with me, but I would like to share. The story went:

The Prophet of Allah (pbuh) used to walk everyday along a road and there was a women who would every day throw garbage out the window on him. Because the Prophet (pbuh) was humble, he did not get angry. One day, as he walked along the same path, the women did not throw garbage outside the window; in fact, she did not show up at all. Muhammad (pbuh) asked the neighbour about her who said she was very ill. Muhammad (pbuh) went to her room and she was so ill that she could not get a glass of water. The Prophet (pbuh) gave her a glass of water. She then said, "Oh Prophet of Allah (pbuh)! I ask forgiveness from you as I have been very unkind" upon which he forgave her.

In school, I took a World Religions class. This class has helped me realize the true potential of religion. You cannot follow one without respecting, or at least tolerating the others. I enjoy reading literature from all religions and sects. It has also helped me realize that you cannot judge something you don't know about. At the end of the year we had to do group projects which counted 15% of our marks. Our group decided to do the Nativity Story of Jesus Christ. My role was to speak of Jesus from other religious points of view and so I told the story of his birth from the Qur'an-e-sharif. People were amazed to find out that Jesus was a prophet in Islam and that Mary's name is mentioned more in the Qur'an then the entire Old Testament. Anyways, two days after my presentation one Christian goes up and does her presentation on Christian prosecution. I was disgusted at first - she talked about how Muslims kill Christians and she used all this evidence which was not even relevant. I controlled my anger and told her in front of the class, "I enjoyed your presentation." You should have seen how the class reacted, but then I told them this very story of Muhammad (pbuh) from the Talim books set and they understood my hidden message.

It is just how you express your voice and feelings, by which tone you use and how you show respect.

Khuda Hafiz

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Prince Visram,

I think you are a nice and friendly teenager but I am noticing that these types of discussion are hurting you and will only hurt you more. Don’t get me wrong. You definitely have good intention by being here (to understand other Islamic views/sects and be understood in return). And I am noticing that you are trying to defend the sect that you are born into as best as you can with whatever that they thought you.

However, good intentions are never enough in theological debate. You do need to have a good defense. Unfortunately, that is one area that is lacking (currently).

Most of your responses are usually in classical Ismail’s fashion.

- They are based purely on personal opinions and conjecture.

- You don’t utilize the great resources that we have – the Holy Quran, the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and the teaching of his ahlul bayt(family)

- You don’t acknowledge or addressed your opponents’ views (by presenting either supporting facts or counter arguments).

Hopefully, we can have a meaningful dialogue and interesting discussion in the future.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...