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Muhammed Ali

Shirk Worse Than Atheism?

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(bismillah) (salam)

(11:18) And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah?

It is said that shirk is the worst sin that a person can perform. So where does this leave atheism?

Could it be said that atheism is a subset of shirk and thus a sin on the same level? (For example because it implies that there are self-sufficient entities other than God).

Or perhaps shirk is indeed a greater “sin” than atheism because sins are disobedience to God and since an atheist does not believe in God and revelation, there is no point of telling them that it is a sin and that is why it is not formally addressed as a sin even though it technically is as bad as shirk or even worse than it?

What have the scholars said about this?

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salam brother

atheism is pure shirk - that is, not believing in god at all

so its basically the same thing

but if you are compare the level of shirk committed by christians or jews to the atheist, the athiests obviously are worse, because their type of shirk is in pure form i.e. believing that no god exists at all and recognise no religion.

however, at least ahlul kitab recognise the existance of a God.

so basically atheism would be shirk in its worst form.

hope that helps, sorry i dont have scholarly evidence, but thats what i think.

:)

salam

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Shirk is to ascribe any god/partner to Allah (swt). Kufr is the disbelief in Allah (swt) (Atheism would be kufr not shirk).

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(salam)

Shirk is not the same as atheism according to the definition. Atheism is the rejection of the God. Shirk means associating partners with God.

And the common thing between them is that both are rejecting the message of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). This would most probably fall into Kufr.

I am not an expert here.

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Isn't shirk by definition ascribing partners to Allah?

salam

i meant that atheism is not believing in god at all or religion.

and shirk is as you said either ascribing partners to Allah or not believing in his existence at all. but i was focused more about how shirk relates to atheism.

hope that clarifies things! :)

salam

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i meant that atheism is not believing in god at all or religion.

and shirk is as you said either ascribing partners to Allah or not believing in his existence at all.

Salaam

This sounds a little confusing...you're giving the same definition of shirk and atheism. In the Quran and elsewhere, shrink is always defined as ascribing partners to Allah. A mushrik believes in god but also in his partners. OTOH, atheism is the opposite: not believing in the existence of any god. This is by definition kufr but its not the same as shirk.

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Salaam

This sounds a little confusing...you're giving the same definition of shirk and atheism. In the Quran and elsewhere, shrink is always defined as ascribing partners to Allah. A mushrik believes in god but also in his partners. OTOH, atheism is the opposite: not believing in the existence of any god. This is by definition kufr but its not the same as shirk.

salam

thanks for the clarification, i thought it was not believing in god OR ascribing partners to god.

thanks, i understand now!

:)

salam

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(salam),

Nope. That's not the only definition. I've mentioned the same thing to you before. :P

wa (salam)

(salaam)

Thank you :) I had actually forgotten about that. What is it's authenticity? I don't actually know of any scholarly opinion that considers all forms of disbelief to be shirk, although Islam does have a very low opinion on people who reject the truth. Is there any evidence from scholars that the rejection of any truth is a form of shirk?

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Shirk is to ascribe any god/partner to Allah (swt). Kufr is the disbelief in Allah (swt) (Atheism would be kufr not shirk).

How is it then that Ahlul Kitab are kuffar as well and not only mushrikeen? They do believe in Allah.

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How is it then that Ahlul Kitab are kuffar as well and not only mushrikeen? They do believe in Allah.

Depends on who Ahlul Kitab is. Trinitarian Christians are Mushirks cause they believe in Jesus & Holy Spirit as being god.

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(salaam)

Thank you :) I had actually forgotten about that. What is it's authenticity? I don't actually know of any scholarly opinion that considers all forms of disbelief to be shirk, although Islam does have a very low opinion on people who reject the truth. Is there any evidence from scholars that the rejection of any truth is a form of shirk?

If shirk means any disobedience then the verse becomes ''God does not forgive any disobedience, but forgives disobedience below that'' and this doesnt make sense. If shirk means rejecting any truth then according to the verse rejecting the truth that a seed isn't a rock [as per the hadith] is unforgivable, but murder isn't, and that cant be right. [you can substitute any truth for the seed example].

Edited by .InshAllah.

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Depends on who Ahlul Kitab is. Trinitarian Christians are Mushirks cause they believe in Jesus & Holy Spirit as being god.

Thats not what I meant. If KUFR is denying God and SHIRK is believing in God but ascribing partners to Him, how is it that we think of Ahlul Kitab not only as MUSHRIKS but also as KUFFAR? They ascribe partners so they are Mushriks, fine, but how are they Kuffar if they still believe in God?

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006.157

YUSUFALI: Or lest ye should say: "If the Book had only been sent down to us, we should have followed its guidance better than they." Now then hath come unto you a clear (sign) from your Lord,- and a guide and a mercy: then who could do more wrong than one who rejecteth Allah's signs, and turneth away therefrom? In good time shall We requite those who turn away from Our signs, with a dreadful penalty, for their turning away.

PICKTHAL: Or lest ye should say: If the Scripture had been revealed unto us, we surely had been better guided than are they. Now hath there come unto you a clear proof from your Lord, a guidance and mercy; and who doeth greater wrong than he who denieth the revelations of Allah, and turneth away from them? We award unto those who turn away from Our revelations an evil doom because of their aversion.

SHAKIR: Or lest you should say: If the Book had been revealed to us, we would certainly have been better guided than they, so indeed there has come to you clear proof from your Lord, and guidance and mercy. Who then is more unjust than he who rejects Allah's communications and turns away from them? We will reward those who turn away from Our communications with an evil chastisement because they turned away.

It says whom is most unjust then whom rejects ayatallah, so that's also highest degree of thulm...or am I misunderstanding it?

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Thats not what I meant. If KUFR is denying God and SHIRK is believing in God but ascribing partners to Him, how is it that we think of Ahlul Kitab not only as MUSHRIKS but also as KUFFAR? They ascribe partners so they are Mushriks, fine, but how are they Kuffar if they still believe in God?

Shirk is kufr in itself. By believing in a different God, you are a kafir. Kufr in the simplest sense means to reject. To reject Allah (swt) is kufr, and to reject the Oneness of Allah (swt) is kufr. Shirk does not mean you believe in God, or Allah (swt). In fact, anything you worship other than Allah (swt), be it god or not, is Shirk, regardless if you believe in Allah (swt) or not. Ahlul Kitab believe in the God that created Adam (as), i.e. Allah (swt). Because of this, they believe in God, or Allah (swt). Hindus however, don't believe in such a God, and don't believe in Allah (swt). Islam is a true Monotheistic faith due to its perfect belief in the Oneness of God.

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(salam),

(salaam)

Thank you :) I had actually forgotten about that. What is it's authenticity? I don't actually know of any scholarly opinion that considers all forms of disbelief to be shirk, although Islam does have a very low opinion on people who reject the truth. Is there any evidence from scholars that the rejection of any truth is a form of shirk?

Grading is Sahih, according to Allama' Majlisi.

If shirk means any disobedience then the verse becomes ''God does not forgive any disobedience, but forgives disobedience below that'' and this doesnt make sense. If shirk means rejecting any truth then according to the verse rejecting the truth that a seed isn't a rock [as per the hadith] is unforgivable, but murder isn't, and that cant be right. [you can substitute any truth for the seed example].

That every disobedience is shirk, is not what the hadith is implying. But what it does say, as far as I understand, is rejecting the truth is Shirk (it may be barely distinguishable from falsehood, nonetheless not impossible to be identified). Remember, that the person is asking Abu Ja'far (as) about the most minor thing that turns a slave (of Allah) into a Mushrik. So rejecting the minor truths, is the most minor type of Shirk.

An example, would be of a person initially searching for the right path, and when he sees all paths leading to Islam, he lets his biased opinion of Islam get in the way, and then he goes around looking for things that 'disprove' what he has already found out about Islam. Likewise, a person can either accept or reject the legality of Muta'. He can either go for the very clear truth laid out in the Qur'an and the ahadith, or he can close his eyes to them, and go for what he thinks he has defined for himself as 'moral'. I don't see why doing the latter would not be Shirk (even if we believe it is of a minor form).

So rejecting the justice of a just faqih, or the Imamate of an Imam, or the truthfulness of a believer are all forms of Shirk. I don't see why that's so hard to believe.

Nothing really, is worse than rejecting the truth, in my opinion. We know that murder is a forgiveable crime, but we also know that the people who rejected the signs of Musa (as) for example, were not (and will not be) forgiven. The Qur'an itself says:

æó ãÇ íõÄúãöäõ ÃóßúËóÑõåõãú ÈöÇááóøåö ÅöáÇóø æó åõãú ãõÔúÑößõæäó

And most of them do not believe in Allah except that they associate others(with him). (12:106)

see the commentary for this verse

wa (salam)

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(bismillah) (salam)

(11:18) And who is more unjust than he who forges a lie against Allah?

It is said that shirk is the worst sin that a person can perform. So where does this leave atheism?

Could it be said that atheism is a subset of shirk and thus a sin on the same level? (For example because it implies that there are self-sufficient entities other than God).

Or perhaps shirk is indeed a greater “sin” than atheism because sins are disobedience to God and since an atheist does not believe in God and revelation, there is no point of telling them that it is a sin and that is why it is not formally addressed as a sin even though it technically is as bad as shirk or even worse than it?

What have the scholars said about this?

Shirk is to imagine that "the Absolute is not the sole reality." It is the opposite of tawhid which is: "there is no reality save the Absolute." If you take the word "Atheism" literally then such a notion is impossible. No one can reject reality or a belief about reality completely. A belief about reality is a delimitation of the Absolute. It is not idols or objects that polytheists or materialists worship. Rather it is their own beliefs about reality that people worship. Our beliefs or thoughts about reality are who we are. And our beliefs about reality change from moment to moment just as much as our thoughts change moment to moment. This is because every thought we have is a thought about reality. That very thought is what we think reality is at that very moment. In other words, every thought we have is a thought about what we think God is. The only way out of this problem is not to stop thinking, for that is impossible. But to acknowledge thoughts for what they are (i.e., as nothing but delimitations of the Absolute). To know God is to know that we do not know God.

Edited by eThErEaL

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I guess I like to look at glass half full rather than half empty. Since the atheists say "there is no god", they are about half way there with the first part of kalima/shada so technically they COULD possible get the second half as well, Inshallah.

However, I do no condone atheism or shirk (of course).

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I guess I like to look at glass half full rather than half empty. Since the atheists say "there is no god", they are about half way there with the first part of kalima/shada so technically they COULD possible get the second half as well, Inshallah.

However, I do no condone atheism or shirk (of course).

Exactly what I was going to mention.

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