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Spriglief

Neda Soltan's Vultures

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Wait!!!

The scene was filmed by two guys. So there are two different versions of it. I found this, and if you look at her eyes. In the first video they are looking to her right. However, in the second one, she is looking straight up. So, my question is: Did she die after she looked up or before?

EDIT: second question... how did this video, with the two version, get released he same day she was killed? Quite peculiar...

This is how expendable intelligence assets are used even in death after a surprise bullet by a fellow spy, usually the spy master.

If these vultures shedding crocodile tears for that girl weren't hypocrites, then you would see them writing sonnets for not just ONE casualty (Neda) but rather several millions of them. What more proof and what discussion is needed here for the wise? None.

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This is how expendable intelligence assets are used even in death after a surprise bullet by a fellow spy, usually the spy master.

If these vultures shedding crocodile tears for that girl weren't hypocrites, then you would see them writing sonnets for not just ONE casualty (Neda) but rather several millions of them. What more proof and what discussion is needed here for the wise? None.

That one casualty became a potent symbol for those countless casualties that go to their graves without making news. Sad and pathetic such as this world of ours, it is symbols and landmarks that count; the rest of the way is conveniently forgotten.

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That one casualty became a potent symbol for those countless casualties that go to their graves without making news. Sad and pathetic such as this world of ours, it is symbols and landmarks that count; the rest of the way is conveniently forgotten.

I'm guessing you're a "free Iran"/"I hope Iran gets the democracy they have in the west"/"anti-WF" type of person?

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o neda they have used you as propaganda

if you believe what they say you may as well believe in santa

she had a tragic death but she wasn't a martyr

you chant freedom but really want sex and lager

Islamic republic is the best thing that happened to Iran

embrace the truth and stop playing to the CIAs hands

saying your muslim but hate the regime

is like saying your shia but not conducting your deen

everyday i say alhamdurillah i am a believer

Allahu akbar and khamenei is my leader

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o neda they have used you as propaganda

if you believe what they say you may as well believe in santa

she had a tragic death but she wasn't a martyr

you chant freedom but really want sex and lager

Islamic republic is the best thing that happened to Iran

embrace the truth and stop playing to the CIAs hands

saying your muslim but hate the regime

is like saying your shia but not conducting your deen

everyday i say alhamdurillah i am a believer

Allahu akbar and khamenei is my leader

MIj6o.gif

This post just made my day! And I've been awake for 18 hours!

BRAVOOOOO!!!!

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That one casualty became a potent symbol for those countless casualties that go to their graves without making news. Sad and pathetic such as this world of ours, it is symbols and landmarks that count; the rest of the way is conveniently forgotten.

Yeah and it just coincidentally happens to be in support of the multidimensional siege of IRI. And of course since she died in Iran and during a Green Movement march by whatever bullet or the hand that fired it, it becomes evil, evil Iran's taint of shame and makes it a failed state for not being able to protect her. No, its not the nuclear tech they're working on. No, its not the better Sharia laws. No, its not that its uncool and too mainstream to not stab at Iran. Its not that they failed miserably to place and use a political puppet instead of Ahmadinejad, another evil, evil tyrant, in order to destroy Iran from within like they did with Pakistan.

No, its the Ahl-al-Bayt Iran isn't following perfectly (even though the rest of the world may follow Satan better) and therefore it must be torn down. It has jails and prisoners in it (as if rest of the world doesn't).

Come on, such allegations and lame political rhetoric is so ugly to read. It does not and will not change anyone's views. Not this one. Find something else, something real against glorious IRI. Or wait till you do.

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CLynn, on 09 March 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Greetings,

Did you read the article?

Yes. Did you answer my question?

Greetings repenter,

My interest in Islam is to discover whether or not I, as one who does not believe in Muhammad, can live in peace with islam in the world. To discover if I can be respected as an individual who belongs to God and allowed to live according to my beliefs and my values. My values which in most ways reflect values, even if not all the same beliefs, shared by muslims (since many of their values also derive from Christian teachings). I believe in abstaining from all forms of evil, including alcohol, foul language, promiscuous and immodest behaviors, pride, arrogance, greed... I believe in loving my neighbor as I would want them to love me... in doing good, and being honest and trustworthy... among others. I fight against the degradation of society.

I came to the forum because I was looking for a way to talk to people from Iran and Iraq because I wanted to know what their views were on the situation in their countries. I wanted to talk to muslims, not just listen to TV and other sources. I want to sort truth from falsehood.

Without the ability to speak freely there isn't much place for honesty.

As far as I am concerned, what matters is not what we express in terms of our ideas or beliefs, so much as ensuring that those ideas and beliefs do not encourage or promote hostility towards one another, that we overcome any tendency towards hostility to one another, looking at one another as individuals, each with minds and ideas of our own, deserving of the respect of one another in bearing no ill will towards one another, but rather seeking ways to live peacefully together, with none oppressing the other, or treating the other less than equal in this life.

Most of us who don't buy the whole Muhammad, qur'an, and all that, we just want to know that we can live in peace with islam in the world. To that end I seek to know what islam says, and what muslims think islam says.

Salaam,

CLynn

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o neda they have used you as propaganda

if you believe what they say you may as well believe in santa

she had a tragic death but she wasn't a martyr

you chant freedom but really want sex and lager

And the author of this poem using her for their own propaganda is no better..

Wish people would stop exploiting this victim for their own purposes. She is dead.

No one knows why she was where she was, what she was doing at that moment, what her politics were, what her intentions were and who shot her and why.

Accusing her of things that suit your own brand of propaganda and that she is unable to defend from the grave, is truly disgusting..

Edited by Maryaam

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... I, as one who does not believe in Muhammad ...

He is perhaps the most well documented historical personality. To doubt his existence is ridiculous. He has more evidence of existing than Jesus (as). I sincerely hope you meant something more along the lines of "who does not believe in the teachings of Muhammad (pbuh)" instead of what you actually said ...

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CLynn, on 09 March 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

Greetings,

Did you read the article?

Greetings repenter,

My interest in Islam is to discover whether or not I, as one who does not believe in Muhammad, can live in peace with islam in the world. To discover if I can be respected as an individual who belongs to God and allowed to live according to my beliefs and my values. My values which in most ways reflect values, even if not all the same beliefs, shared by muslims (since many of their values also derive from Christian teachings). I believe in abstaining from all forms of evil, including alcohol, foul language, promiscuous and immodest behaviors, pride, arrogance, greed... I believe in loving my neighbor as I would want them to love me... in doing good, and being honest and trustworthy... among others. I fight against the degradation of society.

I came to the forum because I was looking for a way to talk to people from Iran and Iraq because I wanted to know what their views were on the situation in their countries. I wanted to talk to muslims, not just listen to TV and other sources. I want to sort truth from falsehood.

Without the ability to speak freely there isn't much place for honesty.

As far as I am concerned, what matters is not what we express in terms of our ideas or beliefs, so much as ensuring that those ideas and beliefs do not encourage or promote hostility towards one another, that we overcome any tendency towards hostility to one another, looking at one another as individuals, each with minds and ideas of our own, deserving of the respect of one another in bearing no ill will towards one another, but rather seeking ways to live peacefully together, with none oppressing the other, or treating the other less than equal in this life.

Most of us who don't buy the whole Muhammad, qur'an, and all that, we just want to know that we can live in peace with islam in the world. To that end I seek to know what islam says, and what muslims think islam says.

Salaam,

CLynn

I wanted to talk to muslims, not just listen to TV and other sources. I want to sort truth from falsehood.

Well, from what you write on this forum, you certainly failed greatly on these goals....good luck to you.

And the author of this poem using her for their own propaganda is no better..

Wish people would stop exploiting this victim for their own purposes. She is dead.

No one knows why she was where she was, what she was doing at that moment, what her politics were, what her intentions were and who shot her and why.

Accusing her of things that suit your own brand of propaganda and that she is unable to defend from the grave, is truly disgusting..

You totally misread the poem......

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I'm guessing you're a "free Iran"/"I hope Iran gets the democracy they have in the west"/"anti-WF" type of person?

Astaghfirullah. Not at all. Freedom and democracy for Iran cannot come from the Imperial West. Iranians should have a government they want.

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Astaghfirullah. Not at all. Freedom and democracy for Iran cannot come from the Imperial West. Iranians should have a government they want.

Ok good :) But from what I have understood the world works like this: If enough people want something, they can make it happen. Example: the French revolution or the Iranian revolution. And that's usually called a democracy (the majority wins). Sooo.. since the government is still the way it is, doesn't that mean that the majority of Iranians want the government, and therefore there is nothing to complain about?

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Ok good :) But from what I have understood the world works like this: If enough people want something, they can make it happen. Example: the French revolution or the Iranian revolution. And that's usually called a democracy (the majority wins). Sooo.. since the government is still the way it is, doesn't that mean that the majority of Iranians want the government, and therefore there is nothing to complain about?

He/she is yanking your chain.......my young padawan...

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Ok good :) But from what I have understood the world works like this: If enough people want something, they can make it happen. Example: the French revolution or the Iranian revolution. And that's usually called a democracy (the majority wins). Sooo.. since the government is still the way it is, doesn't that mean that the majority of Iranians want the government, and therefore there is nothing to complain about?

No, whats your point? That all the corrupt dictators and governments are there because the people collectively want them in place? Most authoritarian governments are in place because they do not tolerant dissent, they oppress political opponents and suppress legitimate uprisings, etc etc etc.

The power generally rests with the people, but to desire something is a start, to come together, organize and force the current establishment to reform, or overthrow a reluctant authoritarian establishment all together is always a tough struggle.

Edited by Mutah_King

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No, whats your point? That all the corrupt dictators and governments are there because the people collectively want them in place? Most authoritarian governments are in place because they do not tolerant dissent, they oppress political opponents and suppress legitimate uprisings, etc etc etc.

The power generally rests with the people, but to desire something is a start, to come together, organize and force the current establishment to reform, or overthrow a reluctant authoritarian establishment all together is always a tough struggle.

The shah in Iran fled the country because ONE old man, used God's power and a PEN to scare him away. All I'm saying is that if enough people really want something, it will happen. In Iran enough people wanted the shah gone, and he left.

So my point is that if enough people want a different government, they will get it. But uuups! Their amount is not even comparable to the ones who support the regime.

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He/she

Let's Skype ya sayyed. At least that'll remove your confusion.

...is yanking your chain.......my young padawan...

And hopefully remove this confusion too.

Ok good :) But from what I have understood the world works like this: If enough people want something, they can make it happen. Example: the French revolution or the Iranian revolution. And that's usually called a democracy (the majority wins). Sooo.. since the government is still the way it is, doesn't that mean that the majority of Iranians want the government, and therefore there is nothing to complain about?

Agreed on the genuiness and grassroots popularity of French and Iranian Revolutions. They were real, proper, popular revolutons worthy of the definition of the term. Unlike those tinpot "revolutions" that happened in Libya and currently happening in Syria.

Having said that, if majority of Iranians want a system of Islamic governance as that they have in Iran currently then it's their prerogative. But - and this 'but' is important - criticising government, its officials and policies and asking for reform of the current going-ons does not make those people the enemies of the state and of God. That's where the Iranian establishment misses the point badly. It expends too much energy silencing media and people and locking them up in prisons for the merest of excuses. The system will only strengthen itself if it learns to tolerate dissent, which is different from attempted overthrow, such that as perpetrated by the likes of Jundullah and MKO, which are both terrorist organisations.

Accountability and transparency at the local and national levels of governance is a continuous struggle that has to be waged by the people without the fear or suppression of their voices.

Edited by Marbles

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Let's Skype ya sayyed. At least that'll remove your confusion.

And hopefully remove this confusion too.

Agreed on the genuiness and grassroots popularity of French and Iranian Revolutions. They were real, proper, popular revolutons worthy of the definition of the term. Unlike those tinpot "revolutions" that happened in Libya and currently happening in Syria.

Having said that, if majority of Iranians want a system of Islamic governance as that they have in Iran currently then it's their prerogative. But - and this 'but' is important - criticising government, its officials and policies and asking for reform of the current going-ons does not make those people the enemies of the state and of God. That's where the Iranian establishment misses the point badly. It expends too much energy silencing media and people and locking them up in prisons for the merest of excuses. The system will only strengthen itself if it learns to tolerate dissent, which is different from attempted overthrow, such that as perpetrated by the likes of Jundullah and MKO, which are both terrorist organisations.

Accountability and transparency at the local and national levels of governance is a continuous struggle that has to be waged by the people without the fear or suppression of their voices.

There's is a big difference between fitna and critique. The whole green movement was all fitna.

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The whole green movement was all fitna.

This is a point of view, and one that of the Iranian establishment against its critics, and by that equation, we can see quite well why they'd say that.

Besides, green or red movement, violet or burgundy, it doesn't matter. Every potent critic of the establishment is shown the door to Evin.

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This is a point of view, and one that of the Iranian establishment against its critics, and by that equation, we can see quite well why they'd say that.

Besides, green or red movement, violet or burgundy, it doesn't matter. Every potent critic of the establishment is shown the door to Evin.

Nooo, my cousin is as anti iranian regime as you can get. She even wants a secular government. And she holds speeches at her university in Tehran and stuff without ever setting her foot in a prison. THAT's criticizing.

Protesting and setting buses and shops on fire is very fitna.

However... again, if they were enough people, they would succeed.

Edited by Seyedeh

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Nooo, my cousin is as anti iranian regime as you can get. She even wants a secular government. And she holds speeches at her university in Tehran and stuff without ever setting her foot in a prison. THAT's criticizing.

Protesting and setting buses and shops on fire is very fitna.

However... again, if they were enough people, they would succeed.

I pray for the safety of your cousin. Inshallah.

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Nooo, my cousin is as anti iranian regime as you can get. She even wants a secular government. And she holds speeches at her university in Tehran and stuff without ever setting her foot in a prison. THAT's criticizing.

LOL! Thats so typical... thats like saying, let the cute puppy bark all it wants so long as its protest is not a meaningful threat to the status quo. As soon as it mounts to something meaningful, someone get rid of that obnoxious dog please.

Go tell that to fathers/brothers/sons of your sisters in faith who were brutally tortured by the regime. Yep, all greenies/shah lovers/communists.

Edited by Mutah_King

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LOL! Thats so typical... thats like saying, let the cute puppy bark all it wants so long as its protest is not a meaningful threat to the status quo. As soon as it mounts to something meaningful, someone get rid of that obnoxious dog please.

Go tell that to fathers/brothers/sons of your sisters in faith who were brutally tortured by the regime. Yep, all greenies/shah lovers/communists.

Brutally tortured???? Wow... somebody is highly influenced by western media!

1) Read what I write, and not just parts of it. I said that if the amount of people who are against the regime is more than those for it, they will get their wish (just like the french revolution and the iranian one).

2) They are just a bunch of sissies. Ayatollah Khamenei had ONE speech where he basically told them to stop. And they did! So much for being revolutionary...

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Brutally tortured???? Wow... somebody is highly influenced by western media!

1) Read what I write, and not just parts of it. I said that if the amount of people who are against the regime is more than those for it, they will get their wish (just like the french revolution and the iranian one).

2) They are just a bunch of sissies. Ayatollah Khamenei had ONE speech where he basically told them to stop. And they did! So much for being revolutionary...

You are a disgusting human being for so easily dismissing oppression of fellow shia human beings by screaming "western propaganda" again. Shame on you.

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You are a disgusting human being

Sigh. Attack the ideas, not the person.

I pray for the safety of your cousin. Inshallah.

LOL, there are very open critics of Iranian governments in the country. It's not at all like you're making it seem.

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What she said is not an "idea", its an insult, beyond an insult to the people who have suffered under the regime.

OK, in other words, fight the 'insult', not the person. Because if she's right and you're wrong (about your claim that people were tortured just because of criticism), you would have abused someone for no reason.

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You are a disgusting human being for so easily dismissing oppression of fellow shia human beings by screaming "western propaganda" again. Shame on you.

Aaaaw, it's so cute the way you run out of valid arguments and resort to personal attacks instead :) I'm not gonna lower my self to your level and answer you anymore.

Wasalam

Edited by Seyedeh

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Aaaaw, it's so cute the way you run out of valid arguments and resort to personal attacks instead :) I'm not gonna lower my self to your level and answer you anymore.

Wasalam

*Thanks the good lord above him*

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Why does this stupid thread even exist?

yah let's call this stupid and take it out like they did Neda and and continue to do it to people like her who oppose your views....then call for Shia unity!

Dont like the tread stay away, dont read it genius! That goes for all the lost souls that agreed with you!

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http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Fianc-of-slain-Iranian-protester-Neda-Soltan-meets-Peres

here is what your fiancee Nada thinks:

Makam replied that he had been impressed by what he had already seen in Israel. It was in his a view a country that respected its citizens and allowed them total freedom – a situation that contrasted radically with that of Iran.

shame on them:

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people need to stop exaggerating her though she was a women that got killed it is tragic to her friends and family but thats all she isn't a martyr or any sort of iconic symbol.

There are people in Iran that don't like the regime and say it out loud and nothing happens, people need to stop with this conspiracy theory stuff like anyone who opposes gets killed etc.

As Muslims we know we have to back up what we say with evidence or else it could be considered slandering so when people say the regime is this and that you really need to have proof from valuable sources not from a CNN site or a book by a "shirazi"

Why attack on "Shirazi" here? I don't understand.

I agree I may have gotten a little carried away about the "lost souls" comment I apologize to everyone about that BUT we muslims are supposed to implement justice even if it is against our selves. It is commandment of Allah (swt). And if there is an innocent person killed, and we believe that was an unjust death, and someone opens a thread and writes poetry about it, I don't see how this can offend others or any political organization. I mean go back to original of this thread it is simply a poetry and all you see people jumping up and down complaining about it.

I really think some of pro IRI brothers and sisters need to think about the fact that IRI is made out of regular people not saints. Some of them can be good, some can be bad, and they all can make mistakes or errors. Only through self correction they can last NOT by dismissing everything and accusing it to be a plot by zionists or enemies inside or etc and wanting a thread closed because they simply don't want to review it and move forward!

The moment people of Ummah are fair and just even against their own kind, is the moment Allah (swt) will grant them victory, inshallah:

Oh you who believe!

Stand out firmly for justice, as witnesses to God,

even against yourselves, or your parents, or your kin,

and whether it be against rich or poor,

for God can best protect both.

Follow not the cravings of your hearts, lest you swerve,

and if you distort justice or decline to do justice,

verily God is well acquainted with all that you do.

Quran 4:135

Edited by Ali-Reza

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