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In the Name of God بسم الله

God As A Female

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I've been thinking about this for awhile, I think of God as being both having a balance of both a male and female nature. He basically is a Father and a Mother all in one and alternates between the two polarities but at the same thing is also transcendant above all physical characteristics associated with those genders. Basically, he has a masculine nature and a feminine nature and can at the same time appear to us to be one or both at a time. So with this in mind, just as we call him "He" even though he transcends all physical barriers of the flesh, is it proper to call God "Goddess" or "She?" What do you think?

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God has no gender or race.

Do not try to Comprehend God by placing him in such boundaries.

The best thing to do is not to associate God with things that he hasn't associated himself with. That is the closet we can ever get (at least in the dunya) of "understand" God.

He has given us those 99 names for a reason.

That is the closet we can ever get (at least in the dunya) of "understanding" God.

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God has no gender or race.

Do not try to Comprehend God by placing him in such boundaries.

The best thing to do is not to associate God with things that he hasn't associated himself with. That is the closet we can ever get (at least in the dunya) of "understand" God.

He has given us those 99 names for a reason.

That is the closet we can ever get (at least in the dunya) of "understanding" God.

Then don't say "He."

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God is refereed to as a "He" By many of our Prophets

He Gave Guidance to the Prophets, therefor they are associated with him.

So when I said The best thing to do is not to associate God with things that he hasn't associated himself with. that doesn't include The Prophets

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This is an intresting topic, I think the focus here should be on the limits of language to explain what God really is. 'Huwa' or 'He' does NOT specify gender when used in the context of God swt.

Its somewhat similiar to the Usage of 'we' in the Quran. Though the 'We' may refer to God alone, it is used to express power. generally , 'we' means more than one but its used for a special linguistic purpose.

He,in this context, isnt specfiying gender.

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In some contexts (such as when referring to God), 'he' is a gender-neutral term. So when we refer to God as He, we are not referring to his 'male nature' but simply using the term because it is gender neutral. Based on that, I don't think you can really use the word 'she' unless the word she became gender-neutral also.

wasalaam

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^I guess the question is then, why isn't "She" used as a gender-neutral term as well? Why is a word ("he") that is already associated with more power in society chosen to signify gender neutrality and thus the most powerful being in the world?

I personally think that we should use "She" or "He" in reference to God to linguistically establish gender equality.

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Well, when I say male and female, I'm referring to two energies not to sexual organs which God has no need of and does not have. I think God is beyond male and female as we are male and female. Think of it like this: Is it possible that God takes on the appearance or attitude of male, female, or something in between based on who he is speaking to and his attitude and will? Like is it possible that just as much as he has appeared or spoken as a "He" he has done so as a "She" Basically, the Godhead is one person, one consciousness of one essence but bears two polarities perfectly balanced.

I know some Hindus hold such an idea with Shiva being the male form of God and Shakti being the female form and Ardhanari being God appearing as both at the same time(his androgynous state). Kabbalists generally uphold similar views with God being both male and female in nature as well.

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First of all, the reason we have to give God a gender, is because in Semitic languages, all words are either masculine or feminine. The reason why we don't see God referred to as a "She" in the Holy books, and even in the English language, is because when the whole concept of having this one singular being called "God" arose, society that was male dominated. If you read the Bible for example, after all the crazy stuff it says about women in there, it would be odd to refer to God as a "she". It also would have been quite condescending to refer to God as an "it", which is usually implied to mean something that is not human and therefore, below the human status.

I just googled the word God in different languages/religions. I found that in Bengali, the word for God is "Tini" which is a gender-neutral word. I also found that in Brahman, the word for God is also gender neutral, but many Hindus still insist on referring to God as a She.

Sorry for quoting wikipedia, but they do have two interesting articles on the gender of God in Hinduism and in Sikhism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_of_God#Indic_religions

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/\ /\ /\

We also see a similar trend in polytheistic religions in which "god" is gender neutral much like the word "deity" in certain contexts. For example, many Greco-Roman pagans would refer to "the gods" but did not refer to just the male deities but the goddesses as well. It seems like "god" is either gender neutral or male even in paganism and Goddess is always gender specific.

Edit: However, I think God may be gender neutral in the sense that he's perfectly balanced in that he can be called "he" "she" or "it" Yin Yang and the grey area in between that makes the entire conscious whole.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23
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I've been thinking about this for awhile, I think of God as being both having a balance of both a male and female nature. He basically is a Father and a Mother all in one and alternates between the two polarities but at the same thing is also transcendant above all physical characteristics associated with those genders. Basically, he has a masculine nature and a feminine nature and can at the same time appear to us to be one or both at a time. So with this in mind, just as we call him "He" even though he transcends all physical barriers of the flesh, is it proper to call God "Goddess" or "She?" What do you think?

Salam,

Firstly, Allah (swt) is no father nor mother (these are Non islamic teachings, i.e Christian Theology) Secondly, when you place gender qualities (he,she or it (third person)) to a being of uncomprehendable qualities you also bring anthropomorphism into the subject!! In other words physically attributing God with human qualities!?, Such a God does not exist in Shia Islam. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status, nothing gender related.

Wasalam.

Edited by sn00pking
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Salam,

Firstly, Allah (swt) is no father nor mother (these are Non islamic teachings, i.e Christian Theology) Secondly, when you place gender qualities (he,she or it (third person)) to a being of uncomprehendable qualities you also bring anthropomorphism into the subject!! In other words physically attributing God with human qualities!?, Such a God does not exist in Shia Islam. The word "He" is used when referring to Allah out of respect, dignity and high status, nothing gender related.

Wasalam.

Mmmm...not exactly. This might be true if we saw God as some distant, transcendant, bare bones undescribed indescribable.

But in reality it is an accepted part of our theology that God is seen to have many attributes, many of them qualities that are associated with humans. Now theologically, this is not seen as anthropomorphizign God because it is cocneptualized that the perfect realizations of these attributes is with God, with the attributes being realized as shadowy images within us, incomplete, unrealized potential.

The mystics and theologians also traditionally group these attributes in two categories, the so called attributes of beauty and the attributes of strengtth/power. These groups of attributes have been understood to represent respectively "feminine" and "masculine" qualities.

So the answer is that God is neither "female" nor "male," but a perfect dynamic equilibrium between the two. The mystics then take it farther in exploring the consequences of this. (An excellent account of this is Sachiko Murata's Tao of Islam)

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So the answer is that God is neither "female" nor "male," but a perfect dynamic equilibrium between the two. The mystics then take it farther in exploring the consequences of this. (An excellent account of this is Sachiko Murata's Tao of Islam)

Pardon me, Kadhim

But you seem to understand God better than Imam Ali does.

In Doa-e-Mashlool, Imam Ali says "How He is, what He is and where He is", implying that He is effectively unknowable.

To make statements such as have been made in this thread is indeed tantamount to blasphemy.

God is the creator of the genders, not an equilibrium between them and bears no relationship to them, except that He is their Creator.

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These type of discussions should be strongly avoided.

Kafi:

ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ¡ Úä ÇáäÖÑ Èä ÓæíÏ Úä ÚÇÕã Èä ÍãíÏ ÞÇá: ÞÇá: ÓÆá Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Úä ÇáÊæÍíÏ ÝÞÇá: Åä Çááå ÚÒæÌá Úáã Ãäå íßæä Ýí ÂÎÑ ÇáÒãÇä ÃÞæÇã ãÊÚãÞæä ÝÃäÒá Çááå ÊÚÇáì Þá åæ Çááå ÃÍÏ æÇáÂíÇÊ ãä ÓæÑÉ ÇáÍÏíÏ Åáì Þæáå: " æåæ Úáíã ÈÐÇÊ ÇáÕÏæÑ " Ýãä ÑÇã æÑÇÁ Ðáß ÝÞÏ åáß.

Imam Zain ul Abideen(as) was asked about tawhid(oneness of Allah). He replied: "Indeed Allah(SWT) knew that in the end times there would be intellectual people so Allah(SWT) sent down, Surah al Ikhlas* (chapter in al-Qur'an) and the verses of Surat al-Hadid*(chapter of al-Qur'an) until His words, ". . . and He knows well that which is in the breasts." Therefore someone who seeks to go beyond that will perish.'"

*Surah al Ikhlas(Yusuf Ali translation):

Al-Ikhlas

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Say: He is Allah the One and Only; (1) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; (2) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; (3) And there is none like unto Him. (4)

*Surah Al Hadid(first 6 verses, Yusuf Ali translation):

Al-Hadid

In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful

Whatever is in the heavens and on earth let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah: for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise. (1) To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth; it is He Who gives life and Death; and He has Power over all things. (2) He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Hidden and He has full knowledge of all things. (3) He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of authority), He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do. (4) To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: and all affairs go back to Allah. (5) He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.

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These type of discussions should be strongly avoided

Absolutely right.

Many of the posts in this thread show how little and how vaguely Muslims understand their own God.

I am surprised how the mods can allow such a thread.

Such a thread should have been choked to death before its first breath.

Islam does not encourage frivolous freedom of speech or expression.

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Pardon me, Kadhim

But you seem to understand God better than Imam Ali does.

In Doa-e-Mashlool, Imam Ali says "How He is, what He is and where He is", implying that He is effectively unknowable.

To make statements such as have been made in this thread is indeed tantamount to blasphemy.

God is the creator of the genders, not an equilibrium between them and bears no relationship to them, except that He is their Creator.

Nonsense.

There is nothing in my post beyond well known, accepted, orthodox theology as taught in the seminaries. My views are firmly in the mainstream on these issues. God has attributes. These are grouped into two main categories, names of beauty and names of power. The attributes of beauty are commonly called "feminine" and the attributes of power "masculine" the beautiful attributes tend to be manifested more in women and the powerful ones more in men. God perfectly manifests in God's Essence all of both sets of attributes in Perfection and there is no conflict between these attributes. There is nothing controversial about this summary.

If you read anything "blasphemous," this is your own misunderstanding. I suggest you try to understand better, and, understanding lacking, ask clarifying questions first before making accusations of "blasphemy" in the future.

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Absolutely right.

Many of the posts in this thread show how little and how vaguely Muslims understand their own God.

I am surprised how the mods can allow such a thread.

Such a thread should have been choked to death before its first breath.

Islam does not encourage frivolous freedom of speech or expression.

There is no "going beyond" anything going on here.

The point of discussion is about the benefits of using gender non-specific language when speaking about God, and the dangers of using masculine only language in terms of constraining or biasing people's understandings of God. That's the substance of the thread. If you can't handle that, find another thread to participate in.

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I am not saying God is begotten or that he is anthropomorphic. I am saying that he can maintain and expand the office of deity much like the species of humanity continues and maintains itself only he is dependent on only one being: HIM/HER/ITSELF. Also, that he can take the appearance or attitude of male or female or androgynous sentient creature if He/She/It wanted but he doesn't have to. God could appear as pretty much anything he wants, he is not bound by one form or name.

Take us, our species' males are dependent on females to expand itself and stay alive in this world. One conscious being is dependent on another conscious being. God is not dependent on anyone, he expands the office of deity by himself. He does not need to have a consort or offspring."Humanity" is maintained through separate conscious beings that embody masculinity and femininity respectively creating offspring. "Deity" is maintained by one conscious being that embodies both masculinity and femininity just simply growing. Deity and this one single self-contained, ever expanding, being/force with it's single mind/consciousness are essentially one and the same. There is no deity except this one deity and there never was at anytime any other deity but this ONE deity.

To say that God is masculine in that he has loins is to imply that he was begotten, created, or dependent at some time on another conscious being. The same goes for saying God is female in the sense that she has a physical womb. What I'm saying is that God bears masculinity and femininity balanced perfectly so much so that the "deity'" creature type needs no other deities to embody respective masculine traits and feminine traits and elements. All of those are found in Allah. So when God draws on a certain trait of his own being, he/she/it manifests in a way that matches that particular trait. I do not know why this is, anymore than I know why good is good, evil is evil, and reality is reality. I only know what God has made me capable of understanding.

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Nonsense.

There is nothing in my post beyond well known, accepted, orthodox theology as taught in the seminaries. My views are firmly in the mainstream on these issues. God has attributes. These are grouped into two main categories, names of beauty and names of power. The attributes of beauty are commonly called "feminine" and the attributes of power "masculine" the beautiful attributes tend to be manifested more in women and the powerful ones more in men. God perfectly manifests in God's Essence all of both sets of attributes in Perfection and there is no conflict between these attributes. There is nothing controversial about this summary.

If you read anything "blasphemous," this is your own misunderstanding. I suggest you try to understand better, and, understanding lacking, ask clarifying questions first before making accusations of "blasphemy" in the future.

I think I understand what you mean, but at the same time God only uses these attributes to try and help us understand, not because he actually loves in the same way we love or has mercy in the same we can or hates in the same way we do. If you had to categorize God's attributes you could help others understand by saying he is not biased towards one side and has what we understand to be both feminine and masculine attributes, but it would be blasphemous to say he actually has these attributes as we know them - for in fact he is neither masculine nor feminine.

I wonder if that made any sense. w00t.gif

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I think I understand what you mean, but at the same time God only uses these attributes to try and help us understand, not because he actually loves in the same way we love or has mercy in the same we can or hates in the same way we do. If you had to categorize God's attributes you could help others understand by saying he is not biased towards one side and has what we understand to be both feminine and masculine attributes, but it would be blasphemous to say he actually has these attributes as we know them - for in fact he is neither masculine nor feminine.

I wonder if that made any sense. w00t.gif

When I write in the Thinkers Discourse forum, I assume that it is understood without spelling it out that when I speak about God's attributes and the manifestations of the same attributes in man that the attributes in God are not the same as they are when manifested in the human being. If I take shortcuts in expression here it is because I think highly of the audience here and think they can handle it without getting the wrong ideas.

The attributes in God are the archetypal true, highest, purest forms of these attributes. The attributes as manifested in man take their reality from the archetypal reality in God. As they manifest in man, these attributes appear at best as faint images of the original that is in God like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy of a bad photo of a sketch made from failing memory.

The form of Love is in God, in its purest, uncut, original form. It is part of God's eternal Essence. Love at its best and purest examples in humans is but a spark borrowed from the eternal flame that is in God.

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Mmmm...not exactly. This might be true if we saw God as some distant, transcendant, bare bones undescribed indescribable.

But in reality it is an accepted part of our theology that God is seen to have many attributes, many of them qualities that are associated with humans. Now theologically, this is not seen as anthropomorphizign God because it is cocneptualized that the perfect realizations of these attributes is with God, with the attributes being realized as shadowy images within us, incomplete, unrealized potential.

The mystics and theologians also traditionally group these attributes in two categories, the so called attributes of beauty and the attributes of strengtth/power. These groups of attributes have been understood to represent respectively "feminine" and "masculine" qualities.

So the answer is that God is neither "female" nor "male," but a perfect dynamic equilibrium between the two. The mystics then take it farther in exploring the consequences of this. (An excellent account of this is Sachiko Murata's Tao of Islam)

Errrr, am I to understand that you understand Allah (swt) more than the prophets and infallible’s? am I to extract from your post the definition of Allah (swt)? Blimey!! I would expect these type of absurd discussion from an atheist that has no idea about the almighty creator of all marvels, not a Muslim, specifically not a shia Muslim.

But in reality it is an accepted part of our theology that God is seen to have many attributes, many of them qualities that are associated with humans.

These are ancient Greek teachings, Christian misunderstanding of the almighty creator, or sunni teachings as well, saying in one sahih that Allah (swt) will be able to be seen in the life after!! What you are asserting is not taught by the school of thought, when you say Allah (swt) has qualities associated with humans, you are asserting that Allah (swt) is physical!! When something is physical we can sense it? When an ‘it’ is applied to something that is physical, it means it has been created, and when something is created it’s not a God!!! and this itself shows the human lack of understanding of the creator of the Heavens and the Earths???

So the answer is that God is neither "female" nor "male," but a perfect dynamic equilibrium between the two. The mystics then take it farther in exploring the consequences of this. (An excellent account of this is Sachiko Murata's Tao of Islam)

This is a really funny statement, firstly do you know the created before moving onto the creator!!! Have you even studied anything before trying to understand or define Allah (Swt)? How am I, who are you, who are we to even come close to such assertions!!

ÊÚÇáì Çááå ÚãÇ ÊÕÝæä

(Allah is higher than whatever you describe Him of), lets see how ignorant we humans tend to be, can anyone who think he understand Allah (Swt) tell me exactly how many functions a liver has?, can anyone tell me what creatures lie at the depth of the oceans? Can anyone try and define Gravity!! What is it made of? Can anyone who affirms to describe the Almighty creator Allah(Swt) describe to me what is the point of singularity inside the black hole? the most violent and destructive force known to science which not only twists space and time to breaking point, but also destroys the very fabric of the universe!!, ask any astrophysicist to define the point of singularity, he/she will reply its where space, time, and all known laws of physics fall apart!!!

Can anyone who seems to understand the almighty creator tell me tell me how PSR J1748-2446ad pulsar spins 716 times per second? Anyone tell me whats driving it to spin at 24% the speed of light? Is it gravity gone mad? In contrast, planet Earth only spins ONCE every 24 hours!! So how is this neutron star doing it? All mechanical systems will fail to create such marvelous yet complex object, also in comparison to the spin rate, the fastest spinning hard disk drive created by mankind spins at 15000 RPM (revolutions per minute), the neutron star spins (716 x 60 = 42 960 RPM!!!) which mechanical drivers can do something anywhere close?

Can anyone who studied nature tell me how The mantis shrimp, which are mere inches long but can underwater strike with the force of a rifle bullet and can shatter aquarium glass and crab shells alike!! Anyone tell me how such an animal, according to scientists when the crabs latch is released, the spring expands and provides extra push for the club, helping to accelerate it at up to 10,000 times the force of gravity. Can any sane person explain this to me!! Scientists needed ultra, specially made cameras slowing the punch down 800 times before they could guesstimate its speed?

But no, we humans don’t care about the creations!! We don’t care about the intricacy, we don’t care about what’s inside our own body, we don’t care about the complexity of creations, yet we want to understand the creator of all marvels!! Well if you cant understand anything about the creation How do you expect to define the Creator? Who are we to even come close, Allah (swt) is what eyes fail to see and brains fail to describe, a being not constrained by space and time? Astronomers say that it will take us 100 000 years traveling at the speed of light (186 000 miles per second) just to get a glimpse of our own galaxy, let alone there are over 100 000 000 000 galaxies in the known universe, who are we to even come close to contemplating the understanding of the Almighty Creator that created all this? And for the people that want to know how Allah (swt) came about, start studying physics and science and you would understand how limited human knowledge is, in physics, Energy is described as cannot be created nor destroyed, so how do you want to understand the creator if you cant understand the creation???

Allah (swt) is a being beyond what our limited understanding can grasp, glory be to Allah (swt) for all creations, in the quran, Allah (swt) says about our understanding:

"They ask thee concerning the Spirit. Say: "The Spirit is of the command of my Lord: of knowledge it is only a little that is communicated to you," Quran 017:085.

And those who try to grasp things beyond what their brain can handle, Allah (swt) says:

"O you who believe! Do not ask about things, if they are made clear to you, will distress you.","Indeed, people before you asked (such questions); then they became thereby disbelievers." (Quran 05:100-101)

So are people going beyond what they think they know?, you are not going to look smart by asking such questions, they should be forbidden for any Muslim to ask, infact you can even digress in knowledge by doing so, on the contrary, Allah (swt) says in the Quran:

(Those who remember God, standing, sitting and lying on their sides, and reflect on the creation of the heavens and the earth (saying): “Our Lord, you have not created this for nothing. Glory be to You! So safeguard us from the punishment of the Fire.”) (Quran 3:191).

So start thinking about the creations of the heavens and the Earth before making false assertions about the almight Allah (swt), you will start to know NOT understand Allah(swt) that way.

There was a person who was one of those nomadic Arab tribe who didn’t really know much about religion, so he come up to the prophet of Islam Mohammad (pbuh) and said: “O messenger of Allah, give me a strange knowledge I want to know about the weird and the awkward and the twisted and the strange, the prophet of Islam Mohammad (pbuh) replies “You want to know that! But what have you done with the head of knowledge, what have you done in terms of the knowledge you need to seek?” He replied “err well nothing…BTW what is the head of knowledge?” Its like walking to a doctors surgery and saying “Hey Doc this is really important and got me thinking, I want to know more about the disease known as the Multicystic Dysplastic Kidney disorder!!! And the doctor says “Hey, cool it off, do you even know what a kidney is??” and he replies “No…errr what is a kidney?”. So the man said to the prophet “what is the head of knowledge?” the prophet of islam (pbuh) replied “knowing your god to the fullest extent”(obviously we would never know that), the man then said “what is knowing God to the fullest extent”, the prophet replied “You should know that Allah (swt) is ONE, He does not look like His creation, any attribute you see in His creation, He is much higher than to be attributed with that quality”!

Besides the prophet of Islam, Likewise the master of the faithfuls, the master of the believers Ameer almumineen Ali (A.S) really knew who Allah(swt) is, The prophet of Islam and imam Ali (a.s) where the only two people who really knew Allah (swt), in the first sermon of Nahjul Balagha, one of those really difficult sermons in which you need many night of interpretations to try and understand the scope of what imam Ali (a.s) was trying to say, anyway he says: “the first step you should take in knowing about your religion is to know God!, to know God, you need to believe in God, To truly believe in God, you need to take away all the attributes from Him!” What an attribute? An attribute of a physical being is the fact you can see them, sometimes you cant see them, but you can feel them, air is an example. Where as Allah (swt) is a being we can never sense a being beyond all human understanding!.

You see the problem with attributing certain qualities to the Almighty Allah (swt) is that you have the wrong idea about this being, now not understanding the creations of God, what gives you the right to say that I can even begin to comprehend Allah (swt).

Therefore, people study the Quran, Study the marvels of creations, understand the foundations of religion first. These type of questions related to understanding of Allah (swt) will distress you and make you a disbeliever, so refrain from such questions and thinking.

Wasalam to all.

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snoopking,

In a word, no. You have not understood me in the slightest.

I will repeat what I said to PeaceLoving:

Do the favor of actually reading, and trying to understand posts before posting. If you are confused about a point, ask a question before leaping to some insanely skewed and wrongheaded misunderstanding of what is said. "Claiming to know more than the imams?!" Where in the world do you get this impression? I'm expressing the basics of Shia belief 101, day 1 of the course. God and God's attributes. If I was in any way unclear, my apologies, but I have not said anything remotely controversial. I did not claim that we can "see" God, did not say God is physical and did not anywhere imply that God is literally describable in some physical way. When I say that God is not an indescribable purely transcendant being, what I mean is that we do not see God as some vague, mysterious, completely unfathomable about which we can not even have any words and for which we simply say "The One." God tells us that He has certain attributes in His essence. All- Merciful, Knowing, Beautiful, Gentle, Majestic, Forgiving, Wise, Powerful, Alive, Loving, Generous, Independent etc. Some of God's attributes, the negative ones - Not bound in time, not limited in power, not dependent, not bound in space, not limited in knowledge - can be derived philosophically, but other positive attributes we are told of them through the religious texts, including the Quran.

I am saddened that you just wasted such a large amount of time writing a page long rant about some point of view you have attributed to me that exists only in your imagination.

Edited by kadhim
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snoopking,

In a word, no. You have not understood me in the slightest.

I will repeat what I said to PeaceLoving:

Do the favor of actually reading, and trying to understand posts before posting. If you are confused about a point, ask a question before leaping to some insanely skewed and wrongheaded misunderstanding of what is said. "Claiming to know more than the imams?!" Where in the world do you get this impression? I'm expressing the basics of Shia belief 101, day 1 of the course. God and God's attributes. If I was in any way unclear, my apologies, but I have not said anything remotely controversial. I did not claim that we can "see" God, did not say God is physical and did not anywhere imply that God is literally describable in some physical way. When I say that God is not an indescribable purely transcendant being, what I mean is that we do not see God as some vague, mysterious, completely unfathomable about which we can not even have any words and for which we simply say "The One." God tells us that He has certain attributes in His essence. All- Merciful, Knowing, Beautiful, Gentle, Majestic, Forgiving, Wise, Powerful, Alive, Loving, Generous, Independent etc. Some of God's attributes, the negative ones - Not bound in time, not limited in power, not dependent, not bound in space, not limited in knowledge - can be derived philosophically, but other positive attributes we are told of them through the religious texts, including the Quran.

I am saddened that you just wasted such a large amount of time writing a page long rant about some point of view you have attributed to me that exists only in your imagination.

Salam,

So was what i said a rant!! It was a general post i made to people that want to know or ask about what they do not know of, please understand Islamic logic, what you say about one thing drags the other, its like a parallel connection, when someone says i dont understand Pythagoreans theorem nor algebra, for sure you don't expect him to be able to understand the subject of calculus or the concept of triple integration because its all inter-related. And excuse me, my post was addressed to all in general asking about the unknown, or something beyond our grasp.

Thanks for everyones sincere understanding.

Wasalam to all.

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A group of our companions from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Khalid from Muhammad b. Abd ul-Hamid from al-`Ala b. Razin from Muhammad b. Muslim from Abu Ja`far (as). He said: Beware of contemplation (tafakkur, thinking, speculation) about Allah. Rather when you intend to regard His greatness, then look towards the greatness of His Creation.

Prohibition about Speaking or Contemplating in Allah (His Essence)

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^I guess the question is then, why isn't "She" used as a gender-neutral term as well? Why is a word ("he") that is already associated with more power in society chosen to signify gender neutrality and thus the most powerful being in the world?

Yeah, but that's a separate issue and to do with the fact that society has always been male dominated.

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Salam,

So was what i said a rant!! It was a general post i made to people that want to know or ask about what they do not know of, please understand Islamic logic, what you say about one thing drags the other, its like a parallel connection, when someone says i dont understand Pythagoreans theorem nor algebra, for sure you don't expect him to be able to understand the subject of calculus or the concept of triple integration because its all inter-related. And excuse me, my post was addressed to all in general asking about the unknown, or something beyond our grasp.

Thanks for everyones sincere understanding.

Wasalam to all.

First, you quoted me, and then went on. People read this as a reply.

Second. None of this topic is deep, speculative theology. God and His attributes is subject matter from the first week or month of an Islamic beliefs course.

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I think the poster just needs a proper clarification of the Arabic term used for Allah... The "HE" which he is referred to in the Quraan and the Hadith is that of power not gender... And no this has absolutly nothing to do with society being male dominant at the time for the Quraan is not held to the restrictions of time... What you need to understand is that the HE which is used for Allah in Arabic is the "He of greatness" it's like someone mentioned earlier WE OF POWER in English... When the president makes a statement to the people from his perspective or even better when a king does... He says WE decided to do this... We in that essence is not used as a collective but rather to describe his greatness... I don't think you will understand what I'm trying to say if you don't understand te meaning of the Arabic "HE" which is used in the Quraan to only attribute to Allah it's a different HE to all the other HE's which are used to describe other males... HE OF POWER... It's not gender related but YOU can't describe it in English... So when it's translated and when we talk about Allah in English we say he... But we do no mean MALE **I'f you understood it from that perspective than your entire understanding of Allah is WRONG** BECAUSE HE is neither MALE or FEMALE... doesn't need to take a form of a MALE and HE CAN IF WANTS TO LIKE YOU SUGGESTED but he CAN'T!! or not can't but WON'T!! Allah can throw a person who has never disobeyed him and done everything right in his life for example the prophet in HELLFIRE but he WON'T!! and CAN'T!! because in his 99 names he said he is JUST AND THERFORE it is unjust to throw someone in fire when he deserves otherwise... From that understanding of he CAN'T AND WON'T he won't take the form of a human MALE OR FEMALE... HE WITH ALL HIS POWER THE ALMIGHTY CAN!!!! But WON'T!!! I really hope this made it easier for the POSTER to understand... Oh and for those who claimed this discussion is HARAAM or IRRELEVENT than that's just wrong... HELP the brother understand his misunderstanding and don't be like Wahabees..!

Salaam WRWB

- Shararah

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Oh and for those who claimed this discussion is HARAAM or IRRELEVENT than that's just wrong... HELP the brother understand his misunderstanding and don't be like Wahabees..!

(wasalam)

You mean the ahadith(from authoritative shi'ite books) are wrong(which tell us not to discuss these issues) and following them will make us wahabis?

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First, you quoted me, and then went on. People read this as a reply.

Second. None of this topic is deep, speculative theology. God and His attributes is subject matter from the first week or month of an Islamic beliefs course.

Salam,

Right!, my apologies if you think the post is entirely dedicated to you, i first replied to your questions then continued the rest as a general reply to all. Regarding the depth of the topic, anything that concerns Allah (swt) has to be deep, since some Muslims seem to have a confusion about the words they say, specially the title of this topic, it is entirely misleading, and comes from no Islamic thought or any slight understanding of who the Almighty Creator is, like stated by previous brothers and sisters before, if anyone truly wants to know Allah (swt) then seek Him through His creation, bellow are a few examples starting from cellular biology and extending to outer space just to show a s light understanding of how Powerful, Great and how Conscious the Almighty creator Allah (swt) is, everything has been created with an intent, so attributing Allah (swt) with anything human related give you the wrong Idea about this Being.

Cellular biology by Harvard University: CLICK HERE

Mantis Shrimp:

Neutron Stars:

Explosion defying Einstein:

Edited by sn00pking
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salam

HUWA is wrongly translated as He in English. Each language has it's beauty and will lose it's essence if improperly translated.

Huwa is Ism Allah and again Ism doesn't mean name it means Noun(a thing used to refer to someone)

huwa is Ism of ahadiyat of Allah(unity/oneness)

e.g: qul Huwa Allaho ahad

Wahid also stands for Unity. It means the same as Ahad but when wahid is used La shareeka la is used to distinguish that none is similar to Allah. Except by Which Allah attributed to Nafs(again in English it will be wrongly translated as His Self) so another aurgument of Existence of Her Self will begin.

If you want to know Allah azwj then you have Been told about calling through Asma(plural of Ism). If All ism have different identity then tauheed(oneness) can't be achieved, so all Asma refer to Ism Allah and it's Mani(meaning) is Ali ul Azeem.

Mutakalemoon have destroyed this religion by their vain talk of Allah azwj

As Imam sadiq asws said: Allah azwj is recognised upon recognition of imam asws.

Because Aimma asws are the asma ul husna of Allah azwj

I know people won't agree to it but it's the truth.

Ya Ali Madad

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(wasalam)

You mean the ahadith(from authoritative shi'ite books) are wrong(which tell us not to discuss these issues) and following them will make us wahabis?

You quote, but you have no understanding. Our greatest scholars write books about understanding God, His attributes, what He is, what He is not like. Are they all heretics in your limited worldview? Explain yourself withoit hiding behind quote bombs. What are you worshipping in the end if you forbid yourself to reflect on your object of worship? You end up worshipping an undifferentiated blankness; in other words, you worship nothing. How do you tell a proper, healthy understanding of God from a poisonous one?

The Umayyads also expressed belief in a God that was one, not begetting, not begotten. They also believed in a God that determined human action and smiled on tyrants? How are we to reject these poisonous additional notions as false if we do not reflect on what God is and isn't?

One should carefully consider his own mental limitations in how far he tries to understand, and should always understand that in his efforts to understand God, his insights will always fall far short of God's true reality. We must be careful not to venture farther than is safe for our level, and where this is differs from individual to individual. But to claim that we must therefore forswear all effort to understand even to the humble best of our abilities? No. You have clearly misunderstood somewhere.

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You quote, but you have no understanding. Our greatest scholars write books about understanding God, His attributes, what He is, what He is not like. Are they all heretics in your limited worldview? Explain yourself withoit hiding behind quote bombs. What are you worshipping in the end if you forbid yourself to reflect on your object of worship? You end up worshipping an undifferentiated blankness; in other words, you worship nothing. How do you tell a proper, healthy understanding of God from a poisonous one?

Salam again brother,

Can i just point out a mistake in your post, i usually don't pin point specific words, but sometimes words can translate meanings 360 degrees. No scholar will ever publish a book regarding the 'understanding' of Allah (swt), maybe 'knowing' Allah and ways to achieve that i.e. reflect on the creations, but not understand? Understand = Comprehend, and no human being whether 3alim or not will ever come to that knowledge.

Wasalam.

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Explain yourself withoit hiding behind quote bombs.

Bad command or filename.....Press enter to continue :)

What are you worshipping in the end if you forbid yourself to reflect on your object of worship? You end up worshipping an undifferentiated blankness; in other words, you worship nothing. How do you tell a proper, healthy understanding of God from a poisonous one?

Kafi:

ÇáÍÓíä Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ãÚáì Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ÇáæÔÇÁ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ ÇÈä ÇáÝÖíá¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ ÞÇá: ÞÇá áí ÃÈæÌÚÝÑ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ÅäãÇ íÚÈÏ Çááå ãä íÚÑÝ Çááå¡ ÝÃãÇ ãä áÇ íÚÑÝ Çááå ÝÅäãÇ íÚÈÏå åßÐÇ ÖáÇáÇ ÞáÊ: ÌÚáÊ ÝÏÇß ÝãÇ ãÚÑÝÉ Çááå¿ ÞÇá:ÊÕÏíÞ Çááå ÚÒæÌá æÊÕÏíÞ ÑÓæáå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) æãæÇáÇÉ Úáí (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) æÇáÇÆÊãÇã Èå æÈÃÆãÉ ÇáåÏì (Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã) æÇáÈÑÇÁÉ Åáì Çááå ÚÒæÌá ãä ÚÏæåã¡ æåßÐÇ íÚÑÝ Çááå ÚÒæÌá.

Abi Hamza narrated that Imam Ja'far al Sadiq(as) said "One worships Allah(SWT) if he has ma'arifah(true recognition) of Allah(SWT). The one who doesn't have marifat, he worships in a deviant state." I (the narrator) asked "What's the marifat (true recognition) of Allah(SWT)?" Imam(as) answered "Acknowledgement of Allah(SWT) and His messenger(PBUH) and the wilayah of Maula Ali(as) and accepting Ali(as) and the rest of the Imams(as) of hidaya(righteous guidance) as Imams(unconditional supreme leaders) and dissociating from their enemies. This is how you achieve marifat of AllahÓÈÍÇäå æÊÚÇáì".

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