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Evolution, Adam & Eve

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No one who knows anything about the subject has any doubt about the essential idea that man in his physical form evolved from lower life forms. Evidence is overwhelming.

Muslims who don't want to blindly shut themselves off from empirical reality are basically forced to interpret the relevant Quran verses in the light of this reality.

kadhim I hope you are doing well. I remember there was a thread on this same subject and you posted a picture that clearly showed the evolution of the human skull. Could you post it again, maybe from your list of attachments?

Satyaban

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(bismillah)(salam)

I don't know how one cell could form from lightning (miller-Urey) and then survive the harsh conditions of the earth. I don't know how a single cell could become multicellular and grow millions of times in size. I don't know how years of changes in DNA could give

You organs but I am ready to speak about it.

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For those who do not accept the Theory of Evolution I have a few questions.

Aren't the fossils evidence to support the theory? There is fossil evidence of other creatures besides humanoids.

Who were these folks whose remains have been found in Europe like the dude found frozen in the Alps and the teeth and bones that were recently found in Germany that DNA was extracted from?

Why aren't we finding fossils of Homos Sapien Sapien from around the time the Cro magnum and Neanderthals? Is it because humans weren't around then.

If you believe that bam humans were suddenly here as adults when was it?

Lastly if you believe the physical laws of the universe are a creation of God as I do why would he break these laws of physics to create us, that is really baffling?

These things had to evolve like mankind's knowledge. We had to learn to move from being hunters and gatherers to agrarian societies who very slowly spread from the Lavant up through Europe. Man could not have arrived on the scene one day like an alien who landed here knowing how to farm, herd cattle, that he needed to build a shelter, no all of this took God only knows how many thousands of years. Evolution is even exemplified by the birth of the Universe from the formation of simple elements like hydrogen to the vast expanse with galaxies that can't be counted and distances we can't conceive.

This is a most glorious place God has created.

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(salam)

I am not sure if this has been brought up before, but could Adam and Eve been primates? I know this may sound silly but I am quite serious here... Thanks and waiting for some opinons..!

(salam)

Not according to the Holy Quran. You can refer to Tafsir al-Mizan (this is tafsir of the Holy Quran)

Mankind is an Independant Specie, not Evolved from any Other Species

The earlier quoted verses have already decided this question. They have made it clear that the present species, which is propagated through sperm, ends at Adam and his wife, and that they two were created of earth. The human species begins with them and they two were not connected with any other analogous or resembling species. Theirs was original creation.

The theory prevalent today among the scientists is that the first man evolved [from a lower species] and developed into homo sapiens, that is, human being. Although the particular hypothesis is not definitely and unreservedly agreed upon, and is the target of many objections which may be seen in relevant books, yet the basic theory, that man is an animal that evolved into human being, is accepted by them and constitutes the basis of all research in human nature.

According to their theory, the earth, one of the planets in the solar system, was a part of the sun, which had separated from it; it was then a mass of burning molten liquid, which gradually began to cool under the influence of cooling factors. Torrential rains poured on it; heavy floods inundated it, mass of water collected as oceans. Water and earth reacted to each other; algae appeared; aquatic plants continued to develop; its living cells evolved into fish and other aquatic animals; then came flying fish adapted for both water and land; it gradually evolved into land animals, which in their turn developed into homo sapiens. All this happened through evolution: the lower order of life developed into the next higher one, and so on. First there were simple cells, then came aquatic plants, then aquatic animals, then amphibious animals, then land animals and finally man.

This theory is based on observation: One finds systematic gradual perfection in creatures placed on evolutionary rungs, graduating from imperfection to perfection in ascending order. Also, they argue on the basis of experiments, which have created partial changes.

This theory was invented to explain the new characteristics and faculties, which appear more developed and advanced in each succeeding species. But no proof has been given to show that only this theory is correct and others were untenable. After all, these species could possibly have been created separate from each other, without any evolutionary connection between them. Also, the changes occurring in a species might be limited to its conditions and concomitants, not to its person; the experiments done in this field are all confined to the concomitants. Experiments have not found or produced a single individual in all these species that would have actually changed from one species to another, e.g., from ape into homo sapiens. All these experiments touch only some characteristics or concomitants.

Detailed discussion of this topic should be sought somewhere else. Our aim is only to show that it is just a hypothesis which was invented to answer some problems concerned, without there being any definite argument or clear-cut proof. The reality that the Qur'an points to - that man is a species separate from all other species - remains undisputed by an academic argument.

http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/self/tafseer-4-1/#popular-discourse

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(salam)

Not according to the Holy Quran. You can refer to Tafsir al-Mizan (this is tafsir of the Holy Quran)

Mankind is an Independant Specie, not Evolved from any Other Species

The earlier quoted verses have already decided this question. They have made it clear that the present species, which is propagated through sperm, ends at Adam and his wife, and that they two were created of earth. The human species begins with them and they two were not connected with any other analogous or resembling species. Theirs was original creation.

The theory prevalent today among the scientists is that the first man evolved [from a lower species] and developed into homo sapiens, that is, human being. Although the particular hypothesis is not definitely and unreservedly agreed upon, and is the target of many objections which may be seen in relevant books, yet the basic theory, that man is an animal that evolved into human being, is accepted by them and constitutes the basis of all research in human nature.

According to their theory, the earth, one of the planets in the solar system, was a part of the sun, which had separated from it; it was then a mass of burning molten liquid, which gradually began to cool under the influence of cooling factors. Torrential rains poured on it; heavy floods inundated it, mass of water collected as oceans. Water and earth reacted to each other; algae appeared; aquatic plants continued to develop; its living cells evolved into fish and other aquatic animals; then came flying fish adapted for both water and land; it gradually evolved into land animals, which in their turn developed into homo sapiens. All this happened through evolution: the lower order of life developed into the next higher one, and so on. First there were simple cells, then came aquatic plants, then aquatic animals, then amphibious animals, then land animals and finally man.

This theory is based on observation: One finds systematic gradual perfection in creatures placed on evolutionary rungs, graduating from imperfection to perfection in ascending order. Also, they argue on the basis of experiments, which have created partial changes.

This theory was invented to explain the new characteristics and faculties, which appear more developed and advanced in each succeeding species. But no proof has been given to show that only this theory is correct and others were untenable. After all, these species could possibly have been created separate from each other, without any evolutionary connection between them. Also, the changes occurring in a species might be limited to its conditions and concomitants, not to its person; the experiments done in this field are all confined to the concomitants. Experiments have not found or produced a single individual in all these species that would have actually changed from one species to another, e.g., from ape into homo sapiens. All these experiments touch only some characteristics or concomitants.

Detailed discussion of this topic should be sought somewhere else. Our aim is only to show that it is just a hypothesis which was invented to answer some problems concerned, without there being any definite argument or clear-cut proof. The reality that the Qur'an points to - that man is a species separate from all other species - remains undisputed by an academic argument.

http://www.shiasourc...pular-discourse

"One thing to keep in mind is that the theory about children of Adam married to ancient humans can be found in hadeeths (please see post #12)"

This has baffled me since I was a boy in Christian Sunday school. No one could give me a satisfactory answer to the question "Who did the supposed children of the supposed Adam and Eve mate with? I am not starting a discussion on the veracity of Adam and Eve. So, who were these "ancient people"? Accepting that Adam and Eve were the first of their kind leaves no room for "ancient people."

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(salam)

Not according to the Holy Quran. You can refer to Tafsir al-Mizan (this is tafsir of the Holy Quran)

Mankind is an Independant Specie, not Evolved from any Other Species

The earlier quoted verses have already decided this question. They have made it clear that the present species, which is propagated through sperm, ends at Adam and his wife, and that they two were created of earth. The human species begins with them and they two were not connected with any other analogous or resembling species. Theirs was original creation.

The theory prevalent today among the scientists is that the first man evolved [from a lower species] and developed into homo sapiens, that is, human being. Although the particular hypothesis is not definitely and unreservedly agreed upon, and is the target of many objections which may be seen in relevant books, yet the basic theory, that man is an animal that evolved into human being, is accepted by them and constitutes the basis of all research in human nature.

According to their theory, the earth, one of the planets in the solar system, was a part of the sun, which had separated from it; it was then a mass of burning molten liquid, which gradually began to cool under the influence of cooling factors. Torrential rains poured on it; heavy floods inundated it, mass of water collected as oceans. Water and earth reacted to each other; algae appeared; aquatic plants continued to develop; its living cells evolved into fish and other aquatic animals; then came flying fish adapted for both water and land; it gradually evolved into land animals, which in their turn developed into homo sapiens. All this happened through evolution: the lower order of life developed into the next higher one, and so on. First there were simple cells, then came aquatic plants, then aquatic animals, then amphibious animals, then land animals and finally man.

This theory is based on observation: One finds systematic gradual perfection in creatures placed on evolutionary rungs, graduating from imperfection to perfection in ascending order. Also, they argue on the basis of experiments, which have created partial changes.

This theory was invented to explain the new characteristics and faculties, which appear more developed and advanced in each succeeding species. But no proof has been given to show that only this theory is correct and others were untenable. After all, these species could possibly have been created separate from each other, without any evolutionary connection between them. Also, the changes occurring in a species might be limited to its conditions and concomitants, not to its person; the experiments done in this field are all confined to the concomitants. Experiments have not found or produced a single individual in all these species that would have actually changed from one species to another, e.g., from ape into homo sapiens. All these experiments touch only some characteristics or concomitants.

Detailed discussion of this topic should be sought somewhere else. Our aim is only to show that it is just a hypothesis which was invented to answer some problems concerned, without there being any definite argument or clear-cut proof. The reality that the Qur'an points to - that man is a species separate from all other species - remains undisputed by an academic argument.

http://www.shiasource.com/al-mizan/self/tafseer-4-1/#popular-discourse

Thank you for your reply Zareen, the read was interesting indeed.

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What needs to be asked is why a majority of muslims oppose the idea of evolution - reality is the Quran does not oppose evolution in any way shape or form. Anyone who tells you otherwise is doing his own tafseer, normally with the preconception that Adam got to earth using his heavenly made ufo.

There is no real debate here folks

Oh and please don't disrespect the monkey.

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"One thing to keep in mind is that the theory about children of Adam married to ancient humans can be found in hadeeths (please see post #12)"

This has baffled me since I was a boy in Christian Sunday school. No one could give me a satisfactory answer to the question "Who did the supposed children of the supposed Adam and Eve mate with? I am not starting a discussion on the veracity of Adam and Eve. So, who were these "ancient people"? Accepting that Adam and Eve were the first of their kind leaves no room for "ancient people."

I used the term ancient humans because I wasn't sure what you called these sub-species of human http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._neanderthalensis

A number of theories were proposed about Adam’s children, such as marriage with

i) Jinn

ii) Ancient humans,

iii) Hooris

iv) Among the children themselves

I am more in favor of iv) but I am not really certain.

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I adressed this issue in a post i made months ago in a differnt topic.

Here is the relevant portion:

Adam and eve were not "evolved" from Apes, they were created by Allah (swt), and there are plenty of hadeeths about that. We even have hadeeths about other adams prior to this one, which could possibly account for the "missing links" and pre-homo sapian human fossils found, take a look at this hadeeth :

Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓáã¡ ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÌÚÝÑ Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã íÞæá: áÞÏ ÎáÞ Çááå ÚÒæÌá Ýí ÇáÇÑÖ ãäÐ ÎáÞåÇ ÓÈÚÉ ÚÇáãíä áíÓ åã ãä æáÏ ÂÏã¡ ÎáÞåã ãä ÃÏíã ÇáÇÑÖ ÝÃÓßäåã ÝíåÇ

æÇÍÏÇ ÈÚÏ æÇÍÏ ãÚ ÚÇáãå¡ Ëã ÎáÞ Çááå ÚÒæÌá ÂÏã ÃÈÇ ÇáÈÔÑ (1) æÎáÞ ÐÑíÊå ãäå

Bihar al Anwar Vol 54 page 319/320

http://www.yasoob.com/books/htm1/m013/13/no1333.html

It says

I heard Aba Jafar (imam al baqir) say, Allah created in the earth 7 Alimeen, none of which were from the decedents of Adam, he created them from the crust (adeem) of the earth, and they lived in it, one after the other, then Allah created Adam- the father of mankind, and he created his decedents from him.

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234980768-were-all-prophetsmessengers-infallible/page__view__findpost__p__2118610

I skimmed through this topic with out reading all the posts in detail, we have a large number of hadeeths on the issues raised int his thread, from the creation of the earth to "adams" prior to the current addam. If any one had a specific question about what the islamic perspective is on these, please ask and I will inshaAllah post the relevant hadeeth from Ahlulbayt (as).

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What needs to be asked is why a majority of muslims oppose the idea of evolution - reality is the Quran does not oppose evolution in any way shape or form. Anyone who tells you otherwise is doing his own tafseer, normally with the preconception that Adam got to earth using his heavenly made ufo.

There is no real debate here folks

Oh and please don't disrespect the monkey.

Salams,

Why the majority of Muslims appose the non scientific theory of evolution is not only through logical and Islamic analysis, but also through concrete scientific evidence, as far as i know not a single Shia scholar agrees with anything evolution related, likewise keep in mind that the Quran is not a science book, otherwise it would be billions of pages long describing how this came about and how this happened, this reminds me of the causal argument, if the cause was revealed, then the effect would be that we would have nothing to study as everything is already revealed to us? Also from which branch of science through scientific evidence supports evolution? Start from micro/cellular biology and move up to macro biology, genetics etc.

Human beings descended from prophet Adam (a.s), and the process was not through UFO, its something science cannot explain because its beyond its grasp, this includes the supernatural, the weird and the awkward.

wasalam.

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I used the term ancient humans because I wasn't sure what you called these sub-species of human http://en.wikipedia....eanderthalensis

A number of theories were proposed about Adam's children, such as marriage with

i) Jinn

ii) Ancient humans,

iii) Hooris

iv) Among the children themselves

I am more in favor of iv) but I am not really certain.

It was very kind of you to respond to my post, many are ignored. I can understand your uncertainty, surely their inbreeding would have bore horrible results. As you may know Jinns are not a part of my belief system and I don't know what Hooris are but I am quite sure I don't believe in them either. What I believe is not that important and I don't mean to abuse you of your belief, in fact I must respect them. Surely you must have questioned the reality of Adam and Eve when applied to modern science and I am interested in knowing how you justify both with each other.

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Snoopking - The evidence for evolution is overwhelming so I don't know what you've been reading. I look at things a bit different than you - do you know how old our planet is? Did you ever ask yourself why its that old?

Had Allah swt wished, we would have came on earth billions of years ago.

The reason is simple - There are laws in place, a system that governs every created thing. From the first moments of conception to our death. Likewise there are laws which govern the universe from the first moments of creation to billions of years later thru its current expansion.

How many times have you seen these laws broken ?

Now, neither of us can conclusively say we are right - I don't believe in such a thing as an absolute truth.

There is common sense and there are the fairytales - one of those fairy tales is that adam and eve were created in the heaven "above".

Sometimes common sense goes a long way - when you see a cat and a lion you know they're related somehow - to me this is elementary.

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Salams,

Snoopking - The evidence for evolution is overwhelming so I don't know what you've been reading. I look at things a bit different than you - do you know how old our planet is? Did you ever ask yourself why its that old?

Yes, the first sentence i usually get is the overwhelming-ness of evolution, i have discusses in brief the theory of evolution in the Atheists dialogue thread, you may want to navigate HERE, HERE, or HERE

Regarding the age of our planet, according to geophysicists, Planet Earth is around 4.7 billion years old, i dont know what happened pre dinosaur era, maybe other creations by Allah (swt) and they got wiped out, likewise the age of the universe, according to Cosmologists is 13.75 billion years, Do we know why there is a ~9 billion year gap between the age of the universe and the age of planet Earth?

Had Allah swt wished, we would have came on earth billions of years ago.

I dont quite understand what you mean by this statement, care to elaborate more.

The reason is simple - There are laws in place, a system that governs every created thing. From the first moments of conception to our death. Likewise there are laws which govern the universe from the first moments of creation to billions of years later thru its current expansion.

How many times have you seen these laws broken ?

The laws of physics only apply to planet Earth, anything above that is beyond requires new science we cannot yet understand, even Einstein's e=mc^2 has not only being challenged, but broken completely according to astrophysicists due to the unparalleled energy present in neutron stars or the extreme power of gamma ray bursts which have baffled every physicists mind

Now, neither of us can conclusively say we are right - I don't believe in such a thing as an absolute truth.

There is common sense and there are the fairytales - one of those fairy tales is that adam and eve were created in the heaven "above".

Sometimes common sense goes a long way - when you see a cat and a lion you know they're related somehow - to me this is elementary.

Absolute truths can only come from absolute reasonings, and about the fairytales of adam and even created in heaven, well, i suggest you read the Quran, surah Albaqara because what you stated is not what the Quran says.

Thus why you see that Islam and evolution cannot go hand in hand , they are mutually exclusive, because if you believe in evolution you redefine the Quran, and vice versa.

wasalam.

Edited by sn00pking

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I used the term ancient humans because I wasn't sure what you called these sub-species of human http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H._neanderthalensis

A number of theories were proposed about Adam’s children, such as marriage with

i) Jinn

ii) Ancient humans,

iii) Hooris

iv) Among the children themselves

I am more in favor of iv) but I am not really certain.

(bismillah) (salam)

Well islamically I don't think the children could come from siblings as it is haram. Also it means that the gene pool would remain the same unless of course there was a mutation or an exception which is stated in the Hardy Weinberg principle. Also read The Persian Shah's post on the islamic possibility of evolution

Post #11

I need you guys to follow me on this one because it is indeed a crazy theory:

Ok so since they have discovered that we all originated from Africa (assuming that we were black) that would mean that all other fossils before Noah (as) were destroyed. If you know about the curse of Ham you would know that Prophet Noah (as) prayed that Ham's decendants would be black (you can read up on it if you want) Assuming that the fossils in Africa were that of black people it would mean that the fossils would be of the time after Noah (as) or atleast after Ham reproduced. Well that means that the oldest fossils we know of are of black people, what happened to the other fossils? Well after the flood of Noah (as) all the previous fossils of humans must have eroded or something else happened to them. This means that we can not be sure of when humans survived as the other bones could have been destroyed. (Of course how the other fossils survived is still a point against my theory.)

As for the simularity between neanderthals and humans, we know that Allah would turn people into animals when they deviated. The Quran has not told every prophet's name, who is to say it has told every reace Allah (swt) has morphed due to deviant behaviour. Who says that neanderthals were not deviant humans that Allah (swt) morphed, wouldn't that explain the simularity in bone structure and genetic make up? Same goes for monkeys.

Not sure if anyone wants to read my post but it is available for whoever wants to read it.

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(salam)

I adressed this issue in a post i made months ago in a differnt topic.

Here is the relevant portion:

http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234980768-were-all-prophetsmessengers-infallible/page__view__findpost__p__2118610

I skimmed through this topic with out reading all the posts in detail, we have a large number of hadeeths on the issues raised int his thread, from the creation of the earth to "adams" prior to the current addam. If any one had a specific question about what the islamic perspective is on these, please ask and I will inshaAllah post the relevant hadeeth from Ahlulbayt (as).

Thanks.

I do have a question about past ancient humans (other Adams and not our father Prophet Adams (as)).

Did they have Prophets too? From all the evidence we have about them is that they lived a very simple life (hunting, food gathering and making crude instruments to help their life). We do not have a lot of evidences that can support if they believed/disbelieved in God.

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(salam)

Well islamically I don't think the children could come from siblings as it is haram. Also it means that the gene pool would remain the same unless of course there was a mutation or an exception which is stated in the Hardy Weinberg principle.

Scientifically –yes. But we also know that Adam(as) and Eve (sa) were from the same gene pool, since they were created from the same earth. And they were allowed to marry each other (becoming spouses). So, I really don’t know if marrying your sibling were haram. I don’t really know that it was forbidden to marry siblings in the time of our father Adam (as).

As for genetic properties, obviously Allah swt can disobey any of his laws. Otherwise how do you explain the birth of Jesus (as)? Female (individually) don’t have the DNA to create a baby or even a male child.

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For all those who want to know why the answer is iv (Fink & Shiatullah), go read the relevant sections in tafseer al-mizan. Allameh Tabataba`i [QS] rinses the topic thoroughly clean. I don't have time to replicate the same reasonings here going through and analysing all of the possibilities etc, however, if anybody wants to debate after reading it, then I am game..

Likewise with evolution, Allameh Tabataba`i [QS] has it in al-mizan again, Shahid Mutahhari [QS] has plenty directly addressing the issue (recently learnt he has an even heftier piece of it in one of his major Farsi works, I might translate later). If anybody wants to debate the place of evolution in Islam, then we can discuss it on SC - after you educate yourselves from the blessings of these learned scholars (although, the guessing game is good too)..

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I don't really see any conflict between Islam and evolution. Evolution does not preclude Allah. It's simply a question of whether Allah created us instantaneously or gradually. In fact, there are verses in the Quran which seem to suggest the latter. In 20:50, it says Allah creates everything and guides it to its goal or perfection. 72:14 and 17 state that Allah creates things through regular stages. Does these not indicate an evolutionary mechanism in Allah's creation?

In 2:30, when Allah informs the angels that he is going to place Adam (as) as a khalif on earth, they ask why is He appointing someone who will make mischief and shed blood. It's strange that the angels would wonder about this if no man-like creative had ever existed before Adam. How could they know that men would spill blood unless they had witnessed it before? Perhaps this is what they saw humans before homo sapiens doing on the earth?

The description of Adam's creation in the Quran and hadith may not be intended to be understood 100% literally. Many things in the Quran are symbolic and this was probably necessary in order to be accessible to your average 7th century Arab tribesman.

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I don't really see any conflict between Islam and evolution. Evolution does not preclude Allah. It's simply a question of whether Allah created us instantaneously or gradually. In fact, there are verses in the Quran which seem to suggest the latter. In 20:50, it says Allah creates everything and guides it to its goal or perfection. 72:14 and 17 state that Allah creates things through regular stages. Does these not indicate an evolutionary mechanism in Allah's creation?

In 2:30, when Allah informs the angels that he is going to place Adam (as) as a khalif on earth, they ask why is He appointing someone who will make mischief and shed blood. It's strange that the angels would wonder about this if no man-like creative had ever existed before Adam. How could they know that men would spill blood unless they had witnessed it before? Perhaps this is what they saw humans before homo sapiens doing on the earth?

The description of Adam's creation in the Quran and hadith may not be intended to be understood 100% literally. Many things in the Quran are symbolic and this was probably necessary in order to be accessible to your average 7th century Arab tribesman.

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

I am pretty sure the majority of Maulanas do not believe in evolution.

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^^^^

Ummm, what does that have to do with anything? Maulanas are religious scholars, not scientists. And many scholars who've studied the subject, such as Shaheed Ayatullah Mutaheri (ra) have in fact expressed that there is no conflict between Islam and evolution.

Shia scholars do not however accept abiogenesis, that notion that life arose from accident. This is claimed as the source of life by some proponents of evolution. We believe Allah (SWT) originated all forms of life. The question is the process by which creation happened.

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^^^^

Ummm, what does that have to do with anything? Maulanas are religious scholars, not scientists. And many scholars who've studied the subject, such as Shaheed Ayatullah Mutaheri (ra) have in fact expressed that there is no conflict between Islam and evolution.

Shia scholars do not however accept abiogenesis, that notion that life arose from accident. This is claimed as the source of life by some proponents of evolution. We believe Allah (SWT) originated all forms of life. The question is the process by which creation happened.

bismillah.gifsalam.gif

We were discussing islam's opinion on evolution. So if I say majority of scholars don't believe in evolution, then that means I am telling you islam's stance on it, which was what the original discussion was.

I really appreciated The Persian Shah's post from a while back so I am going to paste it. Post #11

Biology

Tusi wrote extensively on biology and is one of the early pioneers of biological evolution in scientific thought. He begins his theory of evolution with the universe once consisting of equal and similar elements, which themselves consist of elementary particles. According to Tusi, internal contradictions began appearing, and as a result, some substances began developing faster and differently from other substances. He then explains how the elements evolved into minerals, then plants, then animals, and then humans. Tusi then goes on to explain how hereditary variability was an important factor for biological evolution of living things:[8]

"The organisms that can gain the new features faster are more variable. As a result, they gain advantages over other creatures. [...] The bodies are changing as a result of the internal and external interactions."

Tusi discusses how organisms are able to adapt to their environments:[8]

"Look at the world of animals and birds. They have all that is necessary for defense, protection and daily life, including strengths, courage and appropriate tools [organs] [...] Some of these organs are real weapons, [...] For example, horns-spear, teeth and claws-knife and needle, feet and hoofs-cudgel. The thorns and needles of some animals are similar to arrows. [...] Animals that have no other means of defense (as the gazelle and fox) protect themselves with the help of flight and cunning. [...] Some of them, for example, bees, ants and some bird species, have united in communities in order to protect themselves and help each other."

Tusi recognized three types of living things: plants, animals, and humans. He wrote:[8]

"Animals are higher than plants, because they are able to move consciously, go after food, find and eat useful things. [...] There are many differences between the animal and plant species, [...] First of all, the animal kingdom is more complicated. Besides, reason is the most beneficial feature of animals. Owing to reason, they can learn new things and adopt new, non-inherent abilities. For example, the trained horse or hunting falcon...is at a higher point of development in the animal world. The first steps of human perfection begin from here."

Tusi then explains how humans evolved from advanced animals:[8]

"Such humans [probably anthropoid apes] live in the Western Sudan and other distant corners of the world. They are close to animals by their habits, deeds and behavior. [...] The human has features that distinguish him from other creatures, but he has other features that unite him with the animal world, vegetable kingdom or even with the inanimate bodies. [...] Before [the creation of humans], all differences between organisms were of the natural origin. The next step will be associated with spiritual perfection, will, observation and knowledge. [...] All these facts prove that the human being is placed on the middle step of the evolutionary stairway. According to his inherent nature, the human is related to the lower beings, and only with the help of his will can he reach the higher development level."

Edited by ShiaSoldier@2007

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I don't really see any conflict between Islam and evolution. Evolution does not preclude Allah. It's simply a question of whether Allah created us instantaneously or gradually. In fact, there are verses in the Quran which seem to suggest the latter. In 20:50, it says Allah creates everything and guides it to its goal or perfection. 72:14 and 17 state that Allah creates things through regular stages. Does these not indicate an evolutionary mechanism in Allah's creation?

(salam)

Evolution does preclude Allah (swt), if you believe in evolution then you believe that this world came about through coincidences! Not only that, from macro biology point of view, you would have to explain who the great ancestor that was responsible for the split between men and ape is? You would also need to provide transitional proof that the common ancestor did exist etc. Some Christians took this approach but ran into scientific and religious contradictions. That said no verse in the Quran supports evolution. Lets analyse the verse you posted:

In Quran (20:50), if you extract the ayya by itself you will make the verse sound ambiguous and could be interpreted in general to support evolution! However when you analyse the Quran, you have to take into consideration the context in which it is written, hence read the ayya before 20:50, in 20:49 firon (pharaoh) said "And who is your Lord, O Musa?", in (20:50) "He (Prophet Musa) said: Our Lord is He Who gave to everything its creation, then guided it (to its goal)." Guided here is not to be interpreted in a physical manner!, i.e. when you say to someone "May Allah (swt) guide you" What do you mean by Guide you? Do you mean that Allah(swt) is going to physically guide the person to another form, or you mean that Allah (Swt) to guide the persons heart onto the path of reason?

Likewise, in Surah Albaqara, verse 272 Allah (swt) says: áóíúÓó Úóáóíúßó åõÏóÇåõãú æóáóٰßöäøó Çááøóåó íóåúÏöí ãóäú íóÔóÇÁ

Translation: "It is not required of you (O Messenger), to set them on the right path, but Allah sets on the right path whom He pleases"

In this verse we see that Allah (swt) guides (the heart) whom He wishes, also in Quran (72:14-17) does not talk about creation through regular stages?

In 2:30, when Allah informs the angels that he is going to place Adam (as) as a khalif on earth, they ask why is He appointing someone who will make mischief and shed blood. It's strange that the angels would wonder about this if no man-like creative had ever existed before Adam. How could they know that men would spill blood unless they had witnessed it before? Perhaps this is what they saw humans before homo sapiens doing on the earth?

In that verse no scholar knows about what creations the angels where referring to? There are many things in the Quran that we don't understand, such as (Çáã) in openning surah Baqara, or (ßåíÚÕ) in surah Mariam etc.Thus going back to 2:30, it could refer to the creation of Neanderthals for example, or Aborigines, or a race before that? Do note that the Earth according to geophysicists, is ~4.5 billions years old? Allah (swt) could have created many creatures before prophet Adam(a.s), hence different creations altogether?!

And the rest about evolution can all be disproven, logic alone defeats evolutionary biology, and science leads in evidence to the existence of mankind THROUGH creation and not intermediate forms? And the Quran revealed that more than 14 centuries ago! In conclusion, if Allah (Swt) **Could** have guided evolution, i cant see why the Almighty creator would make it so hard for humans to find traits of transitional fossils to make us see where we originated? We have recovered dinosaur remains and flies trapped in amber since more than 200 millions years ago, why cant we find a single fossil to support the theory of evolution? Something to ponder about.

wasalam.

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(salam)

Evolution does preclude Allah (swt), if you believe in evolution then you believe that this world came about through coincidences! Not only that, from macro biology point of view, you would have to explain who the great ancestor that was responsible for the split between men and ape is? You would also need to provide transitional proof that the common ancestor did exist etc. Some Christians took this approach but ran into scientific and religious contradictions. That said no verse in the Quran supports evolution. Lets analyse the verse you posted:

The theory of evolution does not exclude God, it does make the Biblical story other than literal. There is a complete absence of evidence to support the story and it defies the natural laws that are God's creation. I think I will repeat that "The theory of evolution does not exclude God". I like my second sentence also and will repeat it so you don't miss it "There is a complete absence of evidence to support the story and it defies the natural laws that are God's creation."

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If most scholars don't accept evolution that's there own problem. I for one will not debate anyone who keeps throwing sura albaqarah at me trying to prove the quran explains Adams creation and how he descended to earth.

No where in the Quran does it say Adam was created in the heaven above, janna in arabic means garden, and is used at times to describe places on earth. Now how many here will stand up and say they are made of dust? Trying to impose literal meanings is useless really.

Does satan really go around convincing us to sin? Did the angels really bow down to Adam? Or are these things all symbolic?

ATLEAST , we muslims shouldn't oppose the idea of evolution- maybe it doesn't exist and things popped out on earth by Gods will...BUT are we in the position to debate such topic or should we rely more on

science?

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If most scholars don't accept evolution that's there own problem. I for one will not debate anyone who keeps throwing sura albaqarah at me trying to prove the quran explains Adams creation and how he descended to earth.

No where in the Quran does it say Adam was created in the heaven above, janna in arabic means garden, and is used at times to describe places on earth. Now how many here will stand up and say they are made of dust? Trying to impose literal meanings is useless really.

Does satan really go around convincing us to sin? Did the angels really bow down to Adam? Or are these things all symbolic?

ATLEAST , we muslims shouldn't oppose the idea of evolution- maybe it doesn't exist and things popped out on earth by Gods will...BUT are we in the position to debate such topic or should we rely more on

science?

I bow to your superior logic.

The problem is that everyone grew believing the Bible stories to be literally true and won't change because they feel, erroneously, that to do so would repudiate everything their mothers taught them.

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How does Adam & Eve fit into evolution? Please give me support from Islamic sources including hadiths and Quran.

Adam is generally taken to be the first man, but nowhere in the Quran is it affirmed that Adam was the first man or that there was no creation before him. The Quran only speaks of Adam as being the first human created with the ability of vicegerency on Earth.

When the Quran speaks of the creation of the human race, it speaks of a gradual process originating with an extract/sulala of earthly elements 15:26,23:12,37:11,55:14 and water 21:30,24:45,25:54 fashionned and formed 40:64,64:3 before man was made complete for his role of vicegerency 20:55,22:5,7:11"And certainly We created you (addressing the whole human race), then We fashioned you, then We said to the angels: Prostrate to Adam". This verse does not negate the possibility that the whole human race went through a process of evolution, starting with a simple form of life, and that at one point, one individual (Adam) was fully, physically evolved and was made complete with a spirit from God becoming the first vicegerent. As said in 38:71-72, Allah announces to the angels that He will create a mortal, and that when this mortal becomes complete with the spirit from God, to prostrate before him. The last step of human evolution is linked to mankind having being filled with a spirit, signaling its completion as God's vicegerent 2:30.

The primary opposition to the theory of evolution, from both Muslim and Christian dogmatists, is that they hold that it challenges the dignity of man. The proponents of this idea fail to recognize that both their scriptures hold that man was created from dust, an insignifant material, and the Quran in multiple places argues how man was created from sticky fluid, i.e. semen, a thing not even worth mentioning 19:67,18:32-37,16:4"He created man from a small seed and lo! he is an open contender" and even after his completion he is vbrought forth as an infant, growing in maturity 22:5"and of you is he who is caused to die, and of you is he who is brought back to the worst part of life, so that after having knowledge he does not know anything". When Satan argued against God regarding man, he stated that he was better because man was created from mud, and he, from fire 7:12.

Man is ultimately defined by his will and desire. It is not the origin of a thing that matters per the Quran, but the final reach of a thing. As John the Baptist is reported to have said in the NT, when rebuking the Rabbis and Pharisees, God can create children of Abraham out of stone.

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You're right that evolution is just a theory, but there is so much evidence that suggests it strongly. Otherwise, how do you explain all the scientific findings? We do need to reconcile evolution and the existence of God, because we know that God controls everything, including science and evolution, so whatever fossil forms that we find mean something-- God put them there for a reason. We know that God created the laws of science.

Yes, the Quran states one thing, but we have to think, how would science fit in with all of this? There has to be a way, because God set down the rules of science. What people don't seem to understand is that God could have set up evolution, and then at the appropriate time point, sent in Adam and Eve. Allah makes each of us from dirt, but he sends each of us at the appropriate time points-- and by doing so, Allah does not contradict the laws of science of fetal development and birth. His work in creating us is very much congruent with fetal development. Could he not have done the same thing with Adam and Eve?

What are primates and other animals created from, if not dirt?

What kind of credentials/background in the sciences does Ayatullah Misbah Yazdi?

Scientific evidence. There are very bright scholars that are against the whole deal. In science, what is known to be fact today, may be proven wrong tomorrow. You can not let a scientific theory question your faith. For all we know, Darwin could have been Shaythan himself!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkExju9m65E

btw, watch this video by Imran Hosein. He predicted many of the ongoing world events in this video.

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Ok simply put

Evolution does exist.

However inspite of what you may all think

Evolution theory does not go against the Quran. This does not mean God does not exist. I will also explain how to tackle an Evolutionist Atheist.

The Quran did mention dinosaurs in the Noble Quran. While the word "dinosaurs" is a modern word that refers to the gigantic animals that existed perhaps millions of years ago, God referred to all created "beasts" as "dabbah". A "dabbah" in the Noble Quran consists of all animals, including the dinosaurs.

"Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth; in the alternation of the night and the day; in the sailing of the ships through the ocean for the profit of mankind; in the rain which God Sends down from the skies, and the life which He gives therewith to an earth that is dead; in the beasts of all kinds that He scatters through the earth; in the change of the winds, and the clouds which they Trail like their slaves between the sky and the earth;- (Here) indeed are Signs for a people that are wise. (The Quran, 2:164)"
"He created the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; He set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and He scattered through it beasts of all kinds. We send down rain from the sky, and produce on the earth every kind of noble creature, in pairs. (The Quran, 31:10)"

Here it shows us that while the world was being created beasts were created.

Notice in Noble Verse 31:10, God said that He created the mountains to prevent the earth from shaking (which had been scientifically proven to be true. then after that He, the Almighty, created beasts and scattered them throughout the land. These first beasts that were created before mankind are what we call today "dinosaurs".

This is a clear indication that Before man was created, "beasts" use to roam the world.

Secondly, The Quran talks about Adam and Eve but if you clearly read the passages in the Quran they were not the only ones kicked out of heaven

[2.36] But the Shaitan made them both fall from it, and caused them to depart from that (state) in which they were; and We said: Get forth, some of you being the enemies of others, and there is for you in the earth an abode and a provision for a time.

[2.37] Then Adam received (some) words from his Lord, so He turned to him mercifully; surely He is Oft-returning (to mercy), the Merciful.

[2.38] We said: Go forth from this (state) all; so surely there will come to you a guidance from Me, then whoever follows My guidance, no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.

So we have 2 examples. Firstly "some of you being the enemies of others" is a plural. It means more than just Adam and Eve were in heaven. Its just Adam and Eve were the first.

Then the next Surah Adam is forgiven

and the following Surah "Go forth from this (state) all" shows that the OTHERS were taken out of heaven and placed on earth. The reason I am mentioning this is if you look at human DNA no matter how far we go back, there are Seven different types of people. A black man and and Asian could not have Evolved from the same cell nor could a Caucasian and an Anglo Saxon. There are 7 different strands of people.

Now back to standard Evolution theory

Origin of Life:

Science tells us now that the life on earth originated from water. Even today while we are exploring the galaxies and actively searching for life on other planets, the 1st question we ask; is there any water on that planet to sustain life, because without water life is impossible.Quran has told us about this reality some 1400 years ago, before the discovery of science, said the same thing in

| Surah Al Anbiya verse 30

(Out of their sheer ignorance some people take natural phenomena as deities or divinities. This is despite the fact the entire continuum of the universe has been created by Allah Almighty and remains fervently in action according to His given programme. At present various phenomena in the universe appear to them as functioning separately from one another, but) Do they not seriously understand that in the initial stages of creation all of them were one mass which We then parted, so that the various celestial bodies started floating in their own orbits (21:33. 36:40). (Take for example the planet earth. In its initial stages it separated from the original mass, just like a stone thrown out from a catapult - 79:30). Later (when the earth became ready to bear or produce living things) We started life from water. (All living things are created from a mixture of water - 24:45. And over this fountain of life Allah Almighty has kept His own control - 11:7). It is strange that even after all this explanation, they do not believe that only Allah Almighty wields absolute sovereignty over everything in the universe.

First living thing was algae in plant kingdom then animal kingdom started. Quran makes reference to plant kingdom in;

Surah Taha verse 53 | He is the One Who has stored means of nourishment for all of you everywhere on this spacious earth. made and traced out ways for your movements. and sends down water from the sky and with which He grows various vegetation and plants |.

The Ayah also points out the sexual reproduction in plant kingdom, much before science discovered it. In Surah Raad verse 3 male and female fruit plants are described. Similarly reference is made to the water origin of animals in

Surah Nur verse 45

| And according to His Law, Allah Almighty has created every living being out of water (in that the process of life was initiated from water and its survival also depends on it - 21:30). Among living objects there are some which crawl on their bellies, some walk on two legs and some on four. Allah Almighty creates whatever He likes according to His Law of creation. He has set measures for everything; and He has absolute control over everything |.

Creation Of Men :

You just read Aya, that every living thing came out of water as a matter of fact 60% of human’s body is water. There are number of verses in Quran that refer to the earthly origin of man, which the Science found later. Let us go through verses.

| Allah Almighty caused you to grow from earth. Surah Hud verse 61

| We fashioned you from soil. Surah Hajj verse 5

| Allah Almighty is the one who fashioned you from clay. Surah Al Anam verse 2

| Allah Almighty the creation of man from clay. Surah As Sajdah verse 7

| We fashioned them from sticky clay. Surah As Saffat verse 11

| Allah Almighty (God) fashioned man from a clay, like pottery. Surah Ar Rahman verse 14

| We fashioned man from the quintessence of clay. Surah Al Muminun verse 11

Quintessence means gist or extract of some thing. All the chemical components of human body can also be found in earth as well, that is what the aya implies. So, long before the science discovered earthly origin of man, Quran said it before.

Transformation of Man:

We have seen four waves of humans, transformed over a period of time, accepted in Science. Is there any thing in Quran about these transformations. Following verses refer to that:

| Ingratitude produces disorder in the land. This is illustrated by the story of Adam which has been narrated earlier (2/30-38). We created you and fashioned you and then We asked Malaika to bow before Adam, the representative of humanity. They all bowed, but Iblees did not ... |Surah Al Araf verse 11

| The Rabb (Who according to His law of creation) took you through various evolutionary stages one after the other; and fashioned you by removing unnecessary elements, thereby creating excellent balance, proportion and symmetry in you.Thereafter, according to His Law of Mashiyyat, He gave you a suitable form.. |Surah Al Infitar verse 7-8

| This tussle occurs because We have bestowed man with the ability to nourish and develop his self and lead a balanced life in a dignified manner |Surah At Tin Verse 4

The word taqwiym means to organize something in planned way, implying therefore an order of progress that has been strictly defined in advance. Evolutionists use exactly the same expression while describing the transformation of man in evolution. Further evidence of transformation comes from

Surah Nuh Verse 14

| How can you attain this state of life? For this you should ponder over the Divine Law of Creation, according to which you have passed through various evolutionary stages to attain human form." In this evolutionary process each step took you forward and made you better and superior. All this happened without your effort, knowledge or discretion, but the moment you started exercising your discretion, you went astray and started slipping downwards |

Surah Dahr verse 28, Allah Almighty refers to men as a group, and how groups of people were replaced.

| (They are very proud that they are mighty and strong; but they forget that). We have created them; and We have endowed strength and stability to their countenances. If they oppose Our Laws, then according to Our Law of Mashiyyat, it is not at all difficult for Us to wholly replace them with another nation |

Same thing is repeated in verse Surah Al Anam verse 133, about the groups of men.

| If (Allah Almighty) wills He destroys you and in your place appoints whom He wills, as your successor, just as He brought your forth, from the descendants of other people.” These two ayah talk about the disappearance of certain comminutes and their replacement with others, according to the laws of Allah Almighty. Today’s human could very well be the result of these phenomena and events |.

There must be a beginning, but at the same time evolution does exist.

Like I always ask what came first the chicken or the egg?

Evolution is a part of us but we are not related in anyway to other creatures that came before us.

I attended a debate last year made up of a team of geneticist, philosopher and chicken farmer claim who claimed to have found an answer. They said It was the egg.

They said put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life.Therefore the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must have first existed as an embryo inside an egg.

Professor John Brookfield, a specialist in evolutionary genetics at the University of Nottingham said The living organism inside the eggshell would have had the same DNA as the chicken it would develop into. He also said Therefore, the first living thing which we could say unequivocally was a member of the species would be this first egg, and so he believes the egg would have came first.

I argued with him and said that there is no way a mutant egg belonged to the "non-chicken" bird parents.

If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich

He is re-organizing his debate as we speak. We have a conference on the 16th of April. The funny thing is they prepare for it like they are going to war, I very rarely think twice about it till the day and thank god always come up successful. Even if I don't "win" so to speak, I always manage them to get a question mark in there head about their ridiculous theories.

Its ridiculous how they can think we evolved from apes. Think of this.

Jews have been getting their males circumcised for thousands of years. Tell me one Jew who is born without foreskin?

Evolution does exist, but we have a beginning to human society. Since Darwinism has been out, have we at all found the connection between humans and apes. We are no closer than the day he announced his theory

I will now show you examples of previous existences of human beings

This is a find that is disregarded in the archaeological world cause it throws a spanner in our studies

THE LONDON HAMMER - A TOOL OLDER THAN HISTORY

In June 1936 (or 1934 according to some accounts), Max Hahn and his wife Emma were on a walk when they noticed a rock with wood protruding from its core. They decided to take the oddity home and later cracked it open with a hammer and a chisel. Ironically, what they found within seemed to be an archaic hammer of sorts. A team of archaeologists checked it, and as it turns out, the rock encasing the hammer was dated back more than 400 million year; the hammer itself turned out to be more than 500 million years old. Additionally, a section of the handle has begun the transformation to coal. Creationists, of course, were all over this. The hammer’s head, made of more than 96% iron, is far more pure than anything nature could have achieved without an assist from modern technology.

london-hammer-2.jpg

london-hammer-1.jpg

This sling stone is from the detritus bed beneath the Red Crag at Bramford, England. At least Pliocene in age, the stone is at least 5 million and possibly up to 50 million years old. Upon examination it was obvious that the stone had been shaped by the hand of man.... The whole surface... has been s[Edited Out]ed with a flint, in such a way that it is covered with a series of facets running fairly regularly from end to end.... The s[Edited Out]ing described above covers the whole surface of the object, and penetrates into its irregularities. As it stands the object is entirely artificial... yet left in a time millions of years before humans had had even evolved on the Earth.

Latest research shows the artifact to be 47 millions years old

sling%20stone.jpg

Gold Thread in England, between 320 - 360 million years old.

On June 22, 1844, this curious report appeared in the London Times: "A few days ago, as some workmen were employed in quarrying a rock close to the Tweed about a quarter of a mile below Rutherford-mill, a gold thread was discovered embedded in the stone at a depth of eight feet." Dr. A. W. Medd of the British Geological Survey wrote in 1985 that this stone is of Early Carboniferous age between 320 and 360 million years old. Who dropped this gold thread in the ancient fern forests in a distant time when the most advanced life forms on the planet where amphibians and insects?

Gold Chain from Morrisonville, Illinois, 260 - 320 million years old.

On June 11, 1891, The Morrisonville Times reported: "A curious find was brought to light by Mrs. S. W. Culp last Tuesday morning. As she was breaking a lump of coal preparatory to putting it in the scuttle, she discovered, as the lump fell apart, embedded in a circular shape a small gold chain about ten inches in length of antique and quaint workmanship. At first Mrs. Culp thought the chain had been dropped accidentally in the coal, but as she undertook to lift the chain up, the idea of its having been recently dropped was at once made fallacious, for as the lump of coal broke it separated almost in the middle, and the circular position of the chain placed the two ends near to each other, and as the lump separated, the middle of the chain became loosened while each end remained fastened to the coal. The lump of coal from which this chain was taken is supposed to come from the Taylorville or Pana mines (southern Illinois) and almost hushes one's breath with mystery when it is thought for how many long ages the earth has been forming strata after strata which hid the golden links from view. The chain was an eight-carat gold and weighed eight penny-weights." The Illinois State Geological Survey has said the coal in which the gold chain was found is 260 - 320 million years old. This raises the possibility that culturally advanced human beings were present or visiting in North America during that time. How did this gold chain find itself left behind in Earth's distant past more than a quarter of a billion years before humans had evolved?

Carved Stone near Webster, Iowa, 260 - 320 million years old.

The April 2,1897 edition of the Daily News of Omaha, Nebraska, carried an article titled "Carved Stone Buried in a Mine," which described an object from a mine near Webster City, Iowa. The article stated: "While mining coal today in the Lehigh coal mine, at a depth of 130 feet, one of the miners came upon a piece of rock which puzzles him and he was unable to account for its presence at the bottom of the coal mine. The stone is of a dark grey color and about two feet long, one foot wide and four inches in thickness. Over the surface of the stone, which is very hard, lines are drawn at angles forming perfect diamonds. The center of each diamond is a fairly good face of an old man having a peculiar indentation in the forehead that appears in each of the pictures, all of them being remarkably alike. Of the faces, all but two are looking to the right. Was this stone carved and left behind by a traveler from earth's future?

Iron Cup from Oklahoma Coal Mine, 312 million years old.

On November 27, 1948 the following statement was made by Frank J. Kenwood in Sulphur Springs, Arkansas. "While I was working in the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma in 1912, I came upon a solid chunk of coal which was too large to use. I broke it with a sledge hammer. This iron pot fell from the center leaving the impression mould of the pot in the piece of coal. Jim Stall (an employee of the company) witnessed the breaking of the coal, and saw the pot fall out. I traced the source of the coal, and found that it came from the Wilburton, Oklahoma, Mines. According to Robert O. Fay of the Oklahoma Geological Survey, the Wilburton mine coal is about 312 million years old. What advanced civilization or visitor was creating or using iron pots in our past more than 300 million years ago?

Block Wall in an Oklahoma Mine, at least 286 million years old.

W. W. McCormick of Abilene, Texas, reported his grandfather's account of a stone block wall that was found deep within a coal mine: "In the year 1928, I, Atlas Almon Mathis, was working in coal mine No. 5., located two miles north of Heavener, Oklahoma. This was a shaft mine, and they told us it was two miles deep. The mine was so deep that they let us down into it on an elevator.... They pumped air down to us, it was so deep." One evening, Mathis was blasting coal loose by explosives in "room 24" of this mine. "The next morning," said Mathis, "there were several concrete blocks laying in the room. These blocks were 12-inch cubes and were so smooth and polished on the outside that all six sides could serve as mirrors. Yet they were full of gravel, because I chipped one of them open with my pick, and it was plain concrete inside." Mathis added: "As I started to timber the room up, it caved in; and I barely escaped. When I came back after the cave-in, a solid wall of these polished blocks was left exposed. About 100 to 150 yards farther down our air core, another miner struck this same wall, or one very similar." The coal in the mine was Carboniferous, which would mean the wall was at least 286 million years old. According to Mathis, the mining company officers immediately pulled the men out of the mine and forbade them to speak about what they had seen. Mathis said the Wilburton miners also told of finding "a solid block of silver in the shape of a barrel... with the prints of the staves on it," in an area of coal dating between 280 and 320 million years ago. What advance civilization built this wall?... Why was the truth, as is so many of these cases protected and hidden?... What is the real truth about time travlers, modern humans, and modern technology in our past?

Hieroglyphics in Ohio Coal Mine, 260 million year old.

It is reported that James Parsons, and his two sons, exhumed a slate wall in a coal mine at Hammondville, Ohio, in 1868. It was a large smooth wall, disclosed when a great mass of coal fell away from it, and on its surface, carved in bold relief, were several lines of hieroglyphics. Who carved these hieroglyphics more than 250 years before humans walked the earth?

Cambrian Period

Meister%20Shoe%20Print.jpg

Shoe Print in Utah Shale, 505 to 590 Million Years Old.

In 1968, William J. Meister, a draftsman and amateur trilobite collector, reported finding a shoe print in the Wheeler Shale near Antelope Spring, Utah. This shoe-like indentation and its cast were revealed when Meister split open a block of shale. Clearly visible within the imprint were the remains of trilobites, extinct marine arthropods. The shale holding the print and the trilobite fossils is from the Cambrian, and would thus be 505 to 590 million years old. Meister described the ancient shoe-like impression in an article that appeared in the Creation Research Society Quarterly: "The heel print was indented in the rock about an eighth of an inch more than the sole. The footprint was clearly that of the right foot because the sandal was well worn on the right side of the heel in the characteristic fashion." At this time in our planet's history there was no plant or animal life on the land, even the most early types of fish swimming in the seas had not yet evolved. It must have been a very barren landscape that this visitor to Earth's past saw as he walked the land. How did he arrive so far into our past?

Pre-Cambrian Period

vase.jpg

Metallic Vase from Pre-Cambrian Rock, over 600 Million Years Old.

The following report, titled "A Relic of a Bygone Age," appeared in the magazine Scientific American (June 5, 1852): "A few days ago a powerful blast was made in the rock at Meeting House Hill, in Dorchester, a few rods south of Rev. Mr. Hall's meeting house. The blast threw out an immense mass of rock, some of the pieces weighing several tons, and scattered fragments in all directions. Among them was picked a metallic vessel in two parts, rent asunder by the explosion. On putting the parts together it formed a bell-shaped vessel, 4-1/2 inches high, 6-1/2 inches at the base, 2-1/2 inches at the top, and about an eighth of an inch in thickness. The body of this vessel resembles zinc in color, or a composition metal, in which there is a considerable portion of silver. On the side there are six figures of a flower, or bouquet, beautifully inlaid with pure silver, and around the lower part of the vessel a vine, or wreath, also inlaid with silver. The chasing, carving, and inlaying are exquisitely done by the art of some cunning workman. This curious and unknown vessel was blown out of the solid pudding stone, fifteen feet below the surface." According to a recent U.S. Geological Survey map of the Boston-Dorchester area, the pudding stone, now called the Roxbury conglomerate, is of Precambrian age, over 600 million years old. By standard accounts, life was just beginning to form on this planet during the Precambrian. But in the Dorchester vessel we have evidence indicating the presence of artistic metal workers in North America over 600 million years before Leif Erikson. At this time in our planets history the was no life on land, plant or animal. The most advance life-form at this barren time in our planets history was simple algae floating in the seas. Yet somehow through time this beautiful work or art was brought and left behind and eventually buried and preserved in ancient rock. Did a time traveler from the earths future leave this behind in the hopes of later discovery... in an attempt to help ensure that the truth about time travel would one day be revealed?

transvaal_sphere.jpg

Grooved Sphere from South Africa, 2.8 Billion Years Old.

Over the past several decades, South African miners have found hundreds of metallic spheres, at least one of which has three parallel grooves running around its equator. The spheres are of two types -- "one of solid bluish metal with white flecks, and another which is a hollow ball filled with a white spongy center." Roelf Marx, curator of the museum of Klerksdorp, South Africa, where some of the spheres are housed, said: "The spheres are a complete mystery. They look man-made, yet at the time in Earth's history when they came to rest in this rock no intelligent life existed. The globes are found in pyrophyllite, which is mined near the little town of Ottosdal in the Western Transvaal. This pyrophyllite is a quite soft secondary mineral with a count of only 3 on the Mohs' scale and was formed by sedimentation about 2.8 billion years ago. On the other hand the globes are very hard and cannot be scratched, even by steel." The sphere with the three parallel grooves around it are too perfect to be anything but man made. The Precambrian mineral deposit where the globes are found is dated to be at least 2.8 billion years old. At this time simple microscopic cells were all that was alive on the earth. But this is obviously not true. Who created or left behind these magnificent spheres. Obviously man made, and stronger than steel, what was their purpose for the people who visited and left them behind in time?

Does anyone else need proof that 47-million-year-old 'missing link' IDA is a archaeological error and can not be of human origin

I can give more proof. I have been doing archaeology for years now. We all new that the missing link was going to be presented many years back in 2009. We knew this because it is Darwinisms Anniversary this year. 150 years old, and his own 200th anniversary. To bad his evolution has not evolved with him.

r374017_1737419.jpg

My lecturer once said to me

"The more we dig and find human intelligence in archaeology, the deeper human intelligence would bury it, until we would have been happier not to have found it at all"

Many finds are not published or are rejected from history unfortunately. I can show you all billions of examples of what the truth in history is and what we are led to believe.

To move forward and change our future people we must study our history, the past can never be changed! Even if it does get changed it is because of our error in categorizing history and not histories fault.

This is another reason the Koran is an outstanding book. It does not change. The unchangeable history is the best history

"when I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."

Indiana poet James Whitcomb Riley (1849–1916)

Whoops and finally if a Evolutionst Atheist ever debates you about Gods existence

Simple ask them what was before

So if they say bacteria you say "what was before that"

They will say cell say "what was before that"

They will say the big bang say "what was before that"

They will say rocks moving around say "what was before that"

They will say Gasses in space say "what was before that"

They will say chemicals say "what was before that"

The simple answer is there must be a beginning.

Simple mathematics

0x0 = 0, better yet 0 x EVRYTHING still equals 0 There had to have been a chemical imbalance at the very beginning for life to evolve. So it means that a pair of chemicals must have mixed to create something. But we must remember that for there to be an inbalance there must have been 2 chemicals CREATED. For them to mix in such a perfect way to create life as we know it now they must have been created by 1 and purposely inbalanced

There was life before us. Adama and Eve were the first of our times however.

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Snoopking - I have to say with all due respect. Making a statement such as

"Evolution does preclude Allah (swt), if you believe in evolution then you believe that this world came about through coincidences!"

Is rather childish, when we take in consideration that everything , from a child in a womb or an exploding star follows a certain natural pattern imposed by a number of given factors.

Let me ask you this, Did God Create you?? One can rationally argue that he didn't since your entire existence began with a sperm and an egg, and a womb that supplied you with all that you needed. Why is that we have this stupid notion that this world and all in it must pop out of nowhere?

No I beg to differ, the God who allows us this experience of EXISTENCE , can surely take a primitive cell and turn in into a human being. There is no way around that, the entire universe functions on a number of laws and we are no exception to those laws.

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Ok simply put

Evolution does exist.

However inspite of what you may all think

Evolution theory does not go against the Quran. This does not mean God does not exist. I will also explain how to tackle an Evolutionist Atheist.

The Quran did mention dinosaurs in the Noble Quran. While the word "dinosaurs" is a modern word that refers to the gigantic animals that existed perhaps millions of years ago, God referred to all created "beasts" as "dabbah". A "dabbah" in the Noble Quran consists of all animals, including the dinosaurs.

Here it shows us that while the world was being created beasts were created.

Notice in Noble Verse 31:10, God said that He created the mountains to prevent the earth from shaking (which had been scientifically proven to be true. then after that He, the Almighty, created beasts and scattered them throughout the land. These first beasts that were created before mankind are what we call today "dinosaurs".

This is a clear indication that Before man was created, "beasts" use to roam the world.

Secondly, The Quran talks about Adam and Eve but if you clearly read the passages in the Quran they were not the only ones kicked out of heaven

So we have 2 examples. Firstly "some of you being the enemies of others" is a plural. It means more than just Adam and Eve were in heaven. Its just Adam and Eve were the first.

Then the next Surah Adam is forgiven

and the following Surah "Go forth from this (state) all" shows that the OTHERS were taken out of heaven and placed on earth. The reason I am mentioning this is if you look at human DNA no matter how far we go back, there are Seven different types of people. A black man and and Asian could not have Evolved from the same cell nor could a Caucasian and an Anglo Saxon. There are 7 different strands of people.

Now back to standard Evolution theory

Origin of Life:

Science tells us now that the life on earth originated from water. Even today while we are exploring the galaxies and actively searching for life on other planets, the 1st question we ask; is there any water on that planet to sustain life, because without water life is impossible.Quran has told us about this reality some 1400 years ago, before the discovery of science, said the same thing in

| Surah Al Anbiya verse 30

(Out of their sheer ignorance some people take natural phenomena as deities or divinities. This is despite the fact the entire continuum of the universe has been created by Allah Almighty and remains fervently in action according to His given programme. At present various phenomena in the universe appear to them as functioning separately from one another, but) Do they not seriously understand that in the initial stages of creation all of them were one mass which We then parted, so that the various celestial bodies started floating in their own orbits (21:33. 36:40). (Take for example the planet earth. In its initial stages it separated from the original mass, just like a stone thrown out from a catapult - 79:30). Later (when the earth became ready to bear or produce living things) We started life from water. (All living things are created from a mixture of water - 24:45. And over this fountain of life Allah Almighty has kept His own control - 11:7). It is strange that even after all this explanation, they do not believe that only Allah Almighty wields absolute sovereignty over everything in the universe.

First living thing was algae in plant kingdom then animal kingdom started. Quran makes reference to plant kingdom in;

Surah Taha verse 53 | He is the One Who has stored means of nourishment for all of you everywhere on this spacious earth. made and traced out ways for your movements. and sends down water from the sky and with which He grows various vegetation and plants |.

The Ayah also points out the sexual reproduction in plant kingdom, much before science discovered it. In Surah Raad verse 3 male and female fruit plants are described. Similarly reference is made to the water origin of animals in

Surah Nur verse 45

| And according to His Law, Allah Almighty has created every living being out of water (in that the process of life was initiated from water and its survival also depends on it - 21:30). Among living objects there are some which crawl on their bellies, some walk on two legs and some on four. Allah Almighty creates whatever He likes according to His Law of creation. He has set measures for everything; and He has absolute control over everything |.

Creation Of Men :

You just read Aya, that every living thing came out of water as a matter of fact 60% of human’s body is water. There are number of verses in Quran that refer to the earthly origin of man, which the Science found later. Let us go through verses.

| Allah Almighty caused you to grow from earth. Surah Hud verse 61

| We fashioned you from soil. Surah Hajj verse 5

| Allah Almighty is the one who fashioned you from clay. Surah Al Anam verse 2

| Allah Almighty the creation of man from clay. Surah As Sajdah verse 7

| We fashioned them from sticky clay. Surah As Saffat verse 11

| Allah Almighty (God) fashioned man from a clay, like pottery. Surah Ar Rahman verse 14

| We fashioned man from the quintessence of clay. Surah Al Muminun verse 11

Quintessence means gist or extract of some thing. All the chemical components of human body can also be found in earth as well, that is what the aya implies. So, long before the science discovered earthly origin of man, Quran said it before.

Transformation of Man:

We have seen four waves of humans, transformed over a period of time, accepted in Science. Is there any thing in Quran about these transformations. Following verses refer to that:

| Ingratitude produces disorder in the land. This is illustrated by the story of Adam which has been narrated earlier (2/30-38). We created you and fashioned you and then We asked Malaika to bow before Adam, the representative of humanity. They all bowed, but Iblees did not ... |Surah Al Araf verse 11

| The Rabb (Who according to His law of creation) took you through various evolutionary stages one after the other; and fashioned you by removing unnecessary elements, thereby creating excellent balance, proportion and symmetry in you.Thereafter, according to His Law of Mashiyyat, He gave you a suitable form.. |Surah Al Infitar verse 7-8

| This tussle occurs because We have bestowed man with the ability to nourish and develop his self and lead a balanced life in a dignified manner |Surah At Tin Verse 4

The word taqwiym means to organize something in planned way, implying therefore an order of progress that has been strictly defined in advance. Evolutionists use exactly the same expression while describing the transformation of man in evolution. Further evidence of transformation comes from

Surah Nuh Verse 14

| How can you attain this state of life? For this you should ponder over the Divine Law of Creation, according to which you have passed through various evolutionary stages to attain human form." In this evolutionary process each step took you forward and made you better and superior. All this happened without your effort, knowledge or discretion, but the moment you started exercising your discretion, you went astray and started slipping downwards |

Surah Dahr verse 28, Allah Almighty refers to men as a group, and how groups of people were replaced.

| (They are very proud that they are mighty and strong; but they forget that). We have created them; and We have endowed strength and stability to their countenances. If they oppose Our Laws, then according to Our Law of Mashiyyat, it is not at all difficult for Us to wholly replace them with another nation |

Same thing is repeated in verse Surah Al Anam verse 133, about the groups of men.

| If (Allah Almighty) wills He destroys you and in your place appoints whom He wills, as your successor, just as He brought your forth, from the descendants of other people.” These two ayah talk about the disappearance of certain comminutes and their replacement with others, according to the laws of Allah Almighty. Today’s human could very well be the result of these phenomena and events |.

There must be a beginning, but at the same time evolution does exist.

Like I always ask what came first the chicken or the egg?

Evolution is a part of us but we are not related in anyway to other creatures that came before us.

I attended a debate last year made up of a team of geneticist, philosopher and chicken farmer claim who claimed to have found an answer. They said It was the egg.

They said put simply, the reason is down to the fact that genetic material does not change during an animal's life.Therefore the first bird that evolved into what we would call a chicken, probably in prehistoric times, must have first existed as an embryo inside an egg.

Professor John Brookfield, a specialist in evolutionary genetics at the University of Nottingham said The living organism inside the eggshell would have had the same DNA as the chicken it would develop into. He also said Therefore, the first living thing which we could say unequivocally was a member of the species would be this first egg, and so he believes the egg would have came first.

I argued with him and said that there is no way a mutant egg belonged to the "non-chicken" bird parents.

If a kangaroo laid an egg from which an ostrich hatched, that would surely be an ostrich

He is re-organizing his debate as we speak. We have a conference on the 16th of April. The funny thing is they prepare for it like they are going to war, I very rarely think twice about it till the day and thank god always come up successful. Even if I don't "win" so to speak, I always manage them to get a question mark in there head about their ridiculous theories.

Its ridiculous how they can think we evolved from apes. Think of this.

Jews have been getting their males circumcised for thousands of years. Tell me one Jew who is born without foreskin?

Evolution does exist, but we have a beginning to human society. Since Darwinism has been out, have we at all found the connection between humans and apes. We are no closer than the day he announced his theory

I will now show you examples of previous existences of human beings

This is a find that is disregarded in the archaeological world cause it throws a spanner in our studies

THE LONDON HAMMER - A TOOL OLDER THAN HISTORY

In June 1936 (or 1934 according to some accounts), Max Hahn and his wife Emma were on a walk when they noticed a rock with wood protruding from its core. They decided to take the oddity home and later cracked it open with a hammer and a chisel. Ironically, what they found within seemed to be an archaic hammer of sorts. A team of archaeologists checked it, and as it turns out, the rock encasing the hammer was dated back more than 400 million year; the hammer itself turned out to be more than 500 million years old. Additionally, a section of the handle has begun the transformation to coal. Creationists, of course, were all over this. The hammer’s head, made of more than 96% iron, is far more pure than anything nature could have achieved without an assist from modern technology.

london-hammer-2.jpg

london-hammer-1.jpg

This sling stone is from the detritus bed beneath the Red Crag at Bramford, England. At least Pliocene in age, the stone is at least 5 million and possibly up to 50 million years old. Upon examination it was obvious that the stone had been shaped by the hand of man.... The whole surface... has been s[Edited Out]ed with a flint, in such a way that it is covered with a series of facets running fairly regularly from end to end.... The s[Edited Out]ing described above covers the whole surface of the object, and penetrates into its irregularities. As it stands the object is entirely artificial... yet left in a time millions of years before humans had had even evolved on the Earth.

Latest research shows the artifact to be 47 millions years old

sling%20stone.jpg

Gold Thread in England, between 320 - 360 million years old.

On June 22, 1844, this curious report appeared in the London Times: "A few days ago, as some workmen were employed in quarrying a rock close to the Tweed about a quarter of a mile below Rutherford-mill, a gold thread was discovered embedded in the stone at a depth of eight feet." Dr. A. W. Medd of the British Geological Survey wrote in 1985 that this stone is of Early Carboniferous age between 320 and 360 million years old. Who dropped this gold thread in the ancient fern forests in a distant time when the most advanced life forms on the planet where amphibians and insects?

Gold Chain from Morrisonville, Illinois, 260 - 320 million years old.

On June 11, 1891, The Morrisonville Times reported: "A curious find was brought to light by Mrs. S. W. Culp last Tuesday morning. As she was breaking a lump of coal preparatory to putting it in the scuttle, she discovered, as the lump fell apart, embedded in a circular shape a small gold chain about ten inches in length of antique and quaint workmanship. At first Mrs. Culp thought the chain had been dropped accidentally in the coal, but as she undertook to lift the chain up, the idea of its having been recently dropped was at once made fallacious, for as the lump of coal broke it separated almost in the middle, and the circular position of the chain placed the two ends near to each other, and as the lump separated, the middle of the chain became loosened while each end remained fastened to the coal. The lump of coal from which this chain was taken is supposed to come from the Taylorville or Pana mines (southern Illinois) and almost hushes one's breath with mystery when it is thought for how many long ages the earth has been forming strata after strata which hid the golden links from view. The chain was an eight-carat gold and weighed eight penny-weights." The Illinois State Geological Survey has said the coal in which the gold chain was found is 260 - 320 million years old. This raises the possibility that culturally advanced human beings were present or visiting in North America during that time. How did this gold chain find itself left behind in Earth's distant past more than a quarter of a billion years before humans had evolved?

Carved Stone near Webster, Iowa, 260 - 320 million years old.

The April 2,1897 edition of the Daily News of Omaha, Nebraska, carried an article titled "Carved Stone Buried in a Mine," which described an object from a mine near Webster City, Iowa. The article stated: "While mining coal today in the Lehigh coal mine, at a depth of 130 feet, one of the miners came upon a piece of rock which puzzles him and he was unable to account for its presence at the bottom of the coal mine. The stone is of a dark grey color and about two feet long, one foot wide and four inches in thickness. Over the surface of the stone, which is very hard, lines are drawn at angles forming perfect diamonds. The center of each diamond is a fairly good face of an old man having a peculiar indentation in the forehead that appears in each of the pictures, all of them being remarkably alike. Of the faces, all but two are looking to the right. Was this stone carved and left behind by a traveler from earth's future?

Iron Cup from Oklahoma Coal Mine, 312 million years old.

On November 27, 1948 the following statement was made by Frank J. Kenwood in Sulphur Springs, Arkansas. "While I was working in the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma in 1912, I came upon a solid chunk of coal which was too large to use. I broke it with a sledge hammer. This iron pot fell from the center leaving the impression mould of the pot in the piece of coal. Jim Stall (an employee of the company) witnessed the breaking of the coal, and saw the pot fall out. I traced the source of the coal, and found that it came from the Wilburton, Oklahoma, Mines. According to Robert O. Fay of the Oklahoma Geological Survey, the Wilburton mine coal is about 312 million years old. What advanced civilization or visitor was creating or using iron pots in our past more than 300 million years ago?

Block Wall in an Oklahoma Mine, at least 286 million years old.

W. W. McCormick of Abilene, Texas, reported his grandfather's account of a stone block wall that was found deep within a coal mine: "In the year 1928, I, Atlas Almon Mathis, was working in coal mine No. 5., located two miles north of Heavener, Oklahoma. This was a shaft mine, and they told us it was two miles deep. The mine was so deep that they let us down into it on an elevator.... They pumped air down to us, it was so deep." One evening, Mathis was blasting coal loose by explosives in "room 24" of this mine. "The next morning," said Mathis, "there were several concrete blocks laying in the room. These blocks were 12-inch cubes and were so smooth and polished on the outside that all six sides could serve as mirrors. Yet they were full of gravel, because I chipped one of them open with my pick, and it was plain concrete inside." Mathis added: "As I started to timber the room up, it caved in; and I barely escaped. When I came back after the cave-in, a solid wall of these polished blocks was left exposed. About 100 to 150 yards farther down our air core, another miner struck this same wall, or one very similar." The coal in the mine was Carboniferous, which would mean the wall was at least 286 million years old. According to Mathis, the mining company officers immediately pulled the men out of the mine and forbade them to speak about what they had seen. Mathis said the Wilburton miners also told of finding "a solid block of silver in the shape of a barrel... with the prints of the staves on it," in an area of coal dating between 280 and 320 million years ago. What advance civilization built this wall?... Why was the truth, as is so many of these cases protected and hidden?... What is the real truth about time travlers, modern humans, and modern technology in our past?

Hieroglyphics in Ohio Coal Mine, 260 million year old.

It is reported that James Parsons, and his two sons, exhumed a slate wall in a coal mine at Hammondville, Ohio, in 1868. It was a large smooth wall, disclosed when a great mass of coal fell away from it, and on its surface, carved in bold relief, were several lines of hieroglyphics. Who carved these hieroglyphics more than 250 years before humans walked the earth?

Cambrian Period

Meister%20Shoe%20Print.jpg

Shoe Print in Utah Shale, 505 to 590 Million Years Old.

In 1968, William J. Meister, a draftsman and amateur trilobite collector, reported finding a shoe print in the Wheeler Shale near Antelope Spring, Utah. This shoe-like indentation and its cast were revealed when Meister split open a block of shale. Clearly visible within the imprint were the remains of trilobites, extinct marine arthropods. The shale holding the print and the trilobite fossils is from the Cambrian, and would thus be 505 to 590 million years old. Meister described the ancient shoe-like impression in an article that appeared in the Creation Research Society Quarterly: "The heel print was indented in the rock about an eighth of an inch more than the sole. The footprint was clearly that of the right foot because the sandal was well worn on the right side of the heel in the characteristic fashion." At this time in our planet's history there was no plant or animal life on the land, even the most early types of fish swimming in the seas had not yet evolved. It must have been a very barren landscape that this visitor to Earth's past saw as he walked the land. How did he arrive so far into our past?

Pre-Cambrian Period

vase.jpg

Metallic Vase from Pre-Cambrian Rock, over 600 Million Years Old.

The following report, titled "A Relic of a Bygone Age," appeared in the magazine Scientific American (June 5, 1852): "A few days ago a powerful blast was made in the rock at Meeting House Hill, in Dorchester, a few rods south of Rev. Mr. Hall's meeting house. The blast threw out an immense mass of rock, some of the pieces weighing several tons, and scattered fragments in all directions. Among them was picked a metallic vessel in two parts, rent asunder by the explosion. On putting the parts together it formed a bell-shaped vessel, 4-1/2 inches high, 6-1/2 inches at the base, 2-1/2 inches at the top, and about an eighth of an inch in thickness. The body of this vessel resembles zinc in color, or a composition metal, in which there is a considerable portion of silver. On the side there are six figures of a flower, or bouquet, beautifully inlaid with pure silver, and around the lower part of the vessel a vine, or wreath, also inlaid with silver. The chasing, carving, and inlaying are exquisitely done by the art of some cunning workman. This curious and unknown vessel was blown out of the solid pudding stone, fifteen feet below the surface." According to a recent U.S. Geological Survey map of the Boston-Dorchester area, the pudding stone, now called the Roxbury conglomerate, is of Precambrian age, over 600 million years old. By standard accounts, life was just beginning to form on this planet during the Precambrian. But in the Dorchester vessel we have evidence indicating the presence of artistic metal workers in North America over 600 million years before Leif Erikson. At this time in our planets history the was no life on land, plant or animal. The most advance life-form at this barren time in our planets history was simple algae floating in the seas. Yet somehow through time this beautiful work or art was brought and left behind and eventually buried and preserved in ancient rock. Did a time traveler from the earths future leave this behind in the hopes of later discovery... in an attempt to help ensure that the truth about time travel would one day be revealed?

transvaal_sphere.jpg

Grooved Sphere from South Africa, 2.8 Billion Years Old.

Over the past several decades, South African miners have found hundreds of metallic spheres, at least one of which has three parallel grooves running around its equator. The spheres are of two types -- "one of solid bluish metal with white flecks, and another which is a hollow ball filled with a white spongy center." Roelf Marx, curator of the museum of Klerksdorp, South Africa, where some of the spheres are housed, said: "The spheres are a complete mystery. They look man-made, yet at the time in Earth's history when they came to rest in this rock no intelligent life existed. The globes are found in pyrophyllite, which is mined near the little town of Ottosdal in the Western Transvaal. This pyrophyllite is a quite soft secondary mineral with a count of only 3 on the Mohs' scale and was formed by sedimentation about 2.8 billion years ago. On the other hand the globes are very hard and cannot be scratched, even by steel." The sphere with the three parallel grooves around it are too perfect to be anything but man made. The Precambrian mineral deposit where the globes are found is dated to be at least 2.8 billion years old. At this time simple microscopic cells were all that was alive on the earth. But this is obviously not true. Who created or left behind these magnificent spheres. Obviously man made, and stronger than steel, what was their purpose for the people who visited and left them behind in time?

Does anyone else need proof that 47-million-year-old 'missing link' IDA is a archaeological error and can not be of human origin

I can give more proof. I have been doing archaeology for years now. We all new that the missing link was going to be presented many years back in 2009. We knew this because it is Darwinisms Anniversary this year. 150 years old, and his own 200th anniversary. To bad his evolution has not evolved with him.

r374017_1737419.jpg

My lecturer once said to me

"The more we dig and find human intelligence in archaeology, the deeper human intelligence would bury it, until we would have been happier not to have found it at all"

Many finds are not published or are rejected from history unfortunately. I can show you all billions of examples of what the truth in history is and what we are led to believe.

To move forward and change our future people we must study our history, the past can never be changed! Even if it does get changed it is because of our error in categorizing history and not histories fault.

This is another reason the Koran is an outstanding book. It does not change. The unchangeable history is the best history

"when I see a bird that walks like a duck and swims like a duck and quacks like a duck, I call that bird a duck."

Indiana poet James Whitcomb Riley (1849–1916)

Whoops and finally if a Evolutionst Atheist ever debates you about Gods existence

Simple ask them what was before

So if they say bacteria you say "what was before that"

They will say cell say "what was before that"

They will say the big bang say "what was before that"

They will say rocks moving around say "what was before that"

They will say Gasses in space say "what was before that"

They will say chemicals say "what was before that"

The simple answer is there must be a beginning.

Simple mathematics

0x0 = 0, better yet 0 x EVRYTHING still equals 0 There had to have been a chemical imbalance at the very beginning for life to evolve. So it means that a pair of chemicals must have mixed to create something. But we must remember that for there to be an inbalance there must have been 2 chemicals CREATED. For them to mix in such a perfect way to create life as we know it now they must have been created by 1 and purposely inbalanced

There was life before us. Adama and Eve were the first of our times however.

Friend your post is full of nonsense like stories in grocery store check outline tabloids. Stories like so and so in carrying an alien's love child or boy half wolf and half human and the wolf father won't pay child support.

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How does Adam & Eve fit into evolution? Please give me support from Islamic sources including hadiths and Quran.

Now, I just gotta do this humorous comment !

Now Adam and Eve just couldn't keep their hands off of one fruit tree. So, out they go. Then the succeeding generations just got worse and worse.

Then, the God of Noah(as) commanded Noah(as) to preach. Not too many listened. So Noah(as) went on to build a boat in which he(as) and others rode out the flood.

After the Flood, there were descendants of those carried through the Flood. They began to sin again. And again.

Then an "Angel of the Lord" said, "Truly, Man is an evolutionary dead-end".

:!!!:

:wacko:

Edited by hasanhh

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