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loverofBayt2

How Can Shias Say That Ali (ra) Is Ilaah?

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what about the hadith i quoted there?

So you come to a forum of shi'as with all your jaahil misconceptions and half truths, based upon nothing but conjecture and ignorance,

You insult us, accuse of being compulsive liars- and now we learn you don't even know the basic 101 of Sunni-Shi'a discussions, which is your deficient ahadith do not mean anything to us.

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subhanallah! the guy before who was shia qoutes Sahih Bukhari and now u say u dont believe in sahih bukhari...lol...u shias are in total confusion...imam Husayn clearly stated to his womenfolk in his household not to wail and hit themselves after he becomes shaheed...so now u shias are doing the exact opposite...i see u guys always using Al Kafi now u suddenly say it is 60% [Edited Out]. but still no answer to my question...How can Shias call on Imam Ali (ra) for help...help comes ONLY from Allah and not from humans.

well what do u guys say about this:

so popular to see vids like these from shias

and even worse:

subhanallah! there are many more if u want.

So you come to a forum of shi'as with all your jaahil misconceptions and half truths, based upon nothing but conjecture and ignorance,

You insult us, accuse of being compulsive liars- and now we learn you don't even know the basic 101 of Sunni-Shi'a discussions, which is your deficient ahadith do not mean anything to us.

ok ok ok...say what u want but u just insult without giving any answer to my Q's

what do Shias say about Al Anwar An-Nu'-maaniyya??

What do shias say about Nuri At-tabrassi??

what do shias say about Abil Hasan Ali ibn Ebraaheem, Al Qummi and his Tafsir al qummi??

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subhanallah! the guy before who was shia qoutes Sahih Bukhari and now u say u dont believe in sahih bukhari...lol...u shias are in total confusion

Rather its you who is all confused. You need to learn the method of debate wherein you use the books your opponents believe in hence citing Bukhari before you is only because you believe in the junk!

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subhanallah! the guy before who was shia qoutes Sahih Bukhari and now u say u dont believe in sahih bukhari...lol...u shias are in total confusion...imam Husayn clearly stated to his womenfolk in his household not to wail and hit themselves after he becomes shaheed...so now u shias are doing the exact opposite...i see u guys always using Al Kafi now u suddenly say it is 60% [Edited Out]. but still no answer to my question...How can Shias call on Imam Ali (ra) for help...help comes ONLY from Allah and not from humans.

Sallam alliekom

just gonna reply to this portion

Again you're making accusations out of.. hmm i dunno i would say ignorance, or just because of what you watch through youtube

Christians Say Muslims are Terrorists, but both you and i know it's not True, but they base their arguements through the Media as Proof "when a muslim blows himself up" and then they blame all the muslims that they do the same

You're doing the same thing, you're just accusing Shia's at first "saying Ali is illah Astagfurallah" and now "Shia's beat themselves up" and i have no doubt u can provide a Youtube Video to backup your claim.. and i can do the same "look at this sunni blowing himself up" and i can back it up with a youtube video.. but does that mean its true? no it doesnt

and the Second Point .. which is Debate101 .. i'll explain it Very Clearly so you can understand,

when you watch Debates and see a Muslim Quotes the Bible to make a Statement, Does that means that the Muslim himself beleive in the Bible? ofcourse not Because the Bible is Hujjah or is the Truth to Christians, hence Muslim Use their Sources to proof their claim .. and when the Christian Quotes the Bible to spread his beleif does it mean anything to you? ofcourse not.. Same goes to Shia's when u quote them Bukhari or Muslim it doesnt mean anything to them

so when Shia's Quote Bukhari, that is Because it is Hujjah on Sunni's and not on Shia's.. just Like The Bible doesnt meant anything to a Muslim but can Quote Bible Verses to make a Claim, a Shia is Doing the same by quoting Bukhari to make a Claim.

and Lastly, it is known to Shia's that Alkafi is not 100% Sahih, like Sunni's Claim Bukhari to be Sahih

Shia's examine each hadith, Some are Sahih, some are Weak, some fabricated .. all depends on the chain of its naration..

and take this as an advice from a Muslim to Another .. you have alot of Misconceptions fed to you "wether by Youtube videos & other methods of propoganda Against the Shia's" and i came to this conclusion through your comments which showed not only to me but to the other brothers who have commented you, that your knowledge "Concerning the shias to be exact" is very weak

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subhanallah! the guy before who was shia qoutes Sahih Bukhari and now u say u dont believe in sahih bukhari...lol...u shias are in total confusion...imam Husayn clearly stated to his womenfolk in his household not to wail and hit themselves after he becomes shaheed...so now u shias are doing the exact opposite...i see u guys always using Al Kafi now u suddenly say it is 60% [Edited Out]. but still no answer to my question...How can Shias call on Imam Ali (ra) for help...help comes ONLY from Allah and not from humans.

well what do u guys say about this:

so popular to see vids like these from shias

and even worse:

subhanallah! there are many more if u want.

ok ok ok...say what u want but u just insult without giving any answer to my Q's

what do Shias say about Al Anwar An-Nu'-maaniyya??

What do shias say about Nuri At-tabrassi??

what do shias say about Abil Hasan Ali ibn Ebraaheem, Al Qummi and his Tafsir al qummi??

Posting videos of Latmiyat in which poetic language and licensing is used, is not a daleel upon the Shi'a, these are salafi cut outs, not Shi'a videos.

Anwar al-Nu'maniyyah, heavily filled with folklore and not backed up with Isnaads, generally not a work to be used nor relied upon for Aqeedah.

Shaykh al-Muhaddith Nuri al-Tabarisi, was a great scholar who compiled the work Mustadrak al-Wasa'il, an amazing work and a very diligent scholar. I disagree with him due to the fact he was a hardcore akhbari, in fact the last of the traditionally trained- hardcore akhbaris.

Ali ibn Ibrahim al-Qummi was a great scholar, the tafseer of al-Qummi in our hands as it stands today, has too many issues to be legitimately accepted as his work.

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well...do u know what Ahlus Sunnah wal jama3ah teaches us regarding u shias?

see what scholars of Ahlus Sunnah say about shias:

1) Imam Ash-Shafi'i: On one occasion Imam Shafi'ee said concerning the Shia, "I have not seen among the heretics a people more famous for falsehood than the Raafidi* Shia." and on another occasion he said; "Narrate knowledge from everyone you meet except for the Raafidi* Shia, because they invent ahaadeeth and adopt them as part of their religion." (Minhaj as-Sunnah an-Nabawiyyah)

*(Some shia at the time of the Alid Imam Zayd ibn 'Ali demanded that he make a declaration of innocence (tabarra) from whoever disagreed with 'Ali's right to be Imaam. When Zayd refused, they rejected him, and became known as the "Raafida" or rejectors. Those who followed Imaam Zayd became known as Zaydis, and have very little difference from mainstream Islam. The Raafidi evolved into the the various Imaami shia sects, the largest of which is the Ithna 'Ashari.)

2) Imam Abu Haneefah: It is reported that often Imam Abu Hanifah used to repeat the following statement about the Raafidi Shia; "Whoever doubts whether they are disbelievers has himself committed disbelief."

3) Imam Malik: Once when asked about the Raafidi Shia, Imam Malik said; "Do not speak to them or narrate from them, for surely they are liars." During one of Imam Malik's classes, it was mentioned that the raafidi Shia curse the sahaba. Imam Malik recited the verse, "Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah and those with him are harsh with the disbelievers and gentle among themselves. So that the disbelievers may become enraged with them." (48:29) He then said, "Whoever becomes enraged when the Sahâbah are mentioned is the one about whom the verse speaks." (Tafseer al-Qurtubi)

4) Imam Ibn al- MUBAARAK: was reported to have said "Religion is gained from Ahl al-Hadeeth, scholastic theology, and crafty exemptions from religious ordinances from Ahl-ar-ray and lies from the Raafidite Shi'ites.

5) Abu Zur'ah ar-Razi: He said of the raafidi Shia doctrine of cursing the Sahâbah, "If you see someone degrade any of the companions of the Prophet SAWS know that he is a disbeliever. Because the Prophet SAWS was real, what he brought was the truth and all of it was conveyed to us by way of the Sahâbah. What those disbelievers wish to do is cast doubt on the reliability of our narrators in order to invalidate the Qur'an and Sunnah. Thus the disbelievers are the ones most deserving of defamation."

6) Ibn Hazm al-Andalusi: During the period of Muslim rule in Spain, Imam Abu Muhammad ibn Hazm would often debate with the Catholic priests about their religious texts. He brought before them evidence of textual distortions in the Bible and the loss of the original manuscripts. When they replied by pointing out the Shia claims that the Qur'an has been distorted and altered, Ibn Hazm informed them that Shia claims were not valid evidence because the Shia were not themselves Muslims.

7) Imam Al-Alusi: He declared the raafidi Shia disbelievers because of their defamation of the Sahaba. His position was based on the rulings of Imam Malik and other scholars. In response to their claim to be followers of the Ahl al-Bayt (the Prophet's SAWS family) Al-Alusi said, "No, they are really followers of the devils and the Ahl al-Bayt are innocent of them."

anyway not my personal opinion but the opinion of our Muftis, they have ruled out that all shias (except zaidis) are to be burnt alive to death. yeah u guys also believe that we "nasibis" should be killed...and are doing it in Iraq , iran, pak etc...remember...what goes around Comes Around..

Shaykh Abu Musab al Zarqawi gave u clear warnings but you people thought that you were too strong. ok..we will see what happens to shias in Iraq...im just a spectator...we will see what happens. btw there is a video if Islamic state of Iraq burning Shias alive to death because they burnt a women of ahlus sunnah to death...you guys heard of Abu Sulayman al Otaybi?

remember dont get too angry at what i said :D (if u are not cowards)

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^^^I had requested mod zareen to ban this user or at least delete this thread since it was useless from the word go. An idiotic allegation was put forth without proof, his friendly brother posted some equally idiotic stuff, when that didn't work out then the OP started jumping from subject to subject(shias do this, they do that etc). And now it's come down to this.

Waking up of the mods remains a dream..................

Edited: The dream has come true. :!!!:

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya

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Sallam Alleikom

Ya Allah he is just Full of ...... ignorance ..

i don't know if i should feel pity for him, wether by his arrogance or his lack of knowledge but certainly been fed by propaganda by Anti-shia videos on youtube same as those Anti-muslims, when you try to reason with them, they just respond by selfish & stupid answers

and his last comment was about War and other disgusting thoughts & False ideas, which just make islam Look bad

Edited by Dead-Man

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(wasalam)

Ma'am, shouldn't you as admin ban this user or at least delete these frivolous threads where someone plucks statements from thin air and DOESN'T provide proofs to back them up. I can guarantee you this thread will also go upto 6-7 pages as usual even though the starting assumption(s) is/are not backed by authoritative proofs.

salaam, ok lets see if u can answer my questions please, i am muslim,born ito sunni muslim parents,my husband is shia (i found out after marriage) although his family are sunn muslim, on my first visit to pakistan after my marriage, my husband took me to a shia darbar to get his shaji's blessing( he is syed)on arriving at the darbar, what i saw next shocked me to my very core, there was an old man at the entrance,who was shahji's uncle, my husband touched his feet then touched his own forehead,i just put my head forward, we then went inside where shajis sister was, again the same happened,i was told to sit on the floor because no mere humans could sit on same level as syeds, we then went in to meetr shahji, my husband went straight to shahji ,grabbed his feet and went into sajda,shahji didnt try to stop him, again i only put my head forward , each and everytime we went back,the same thing happened,these are the only times i have knowingly disobeyed my husband i want to know if this is not shirk/gunnah then what is it,it states clealy in theHolyQuran, that sajida is for Allah and Allah alone. no human being dead or alive, be he a Prophet,syed,or wali. there has been noone greater person (before or after) than the Holy Prophet SWA, Himself,if we cannot do sajida before Him swa, then who is this shahji to demand sajida from his followers,please enlighten me as this is causing many problems for me and my husband

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As salaam

Brothers listen to this, there is a huge misconception among various people that we Shiites believe that maula Ali (A.s) is Allah (subhana Tala) and that Hazrat Gibreal had mistaken by revealing the Holy Qur'an to Rasul-e- Ghuda (pbuh) but how could that be possible cauze we speak the kal-ma :-

There Is no God Except Allah & Muhammed (pbuh) is his Messenger (or rasool)

and that Ali (A.s) is the Wali of Allah and He is the only Righteous Sucessor to Muhammed Rasool Allah (pbuh) And

that he is the one and only righteous Khalifa of Islam............................!!

So how come people say we believe maula Ali (A.s) to be Allah, as we recite the Kali-ma Of hIm being the Wali Of Allah not The Al mighty himself however we have firm belief that all the Panjatane Paach are the Noor Of Allah All Mighty and not the Allah himself.....................!!

regards,

w/salaam

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Why shias say that Ali (ra) was divine and had control of who enters Hell and paradise????

Who told you that Shias say that???? Your misinformed! Don't go believing everything you hear. Allah and his Messenger clearly say that " don't go believing in what you see or hear, clarify it first ".

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salaam, ok lets see if u can answer my questions please, i am muslim,born ito sunni muslim parents,my husband is shia (i found out after marriage) although his family are sunn muslim, on my first visit to pakistan after my marriage, my husband took me to a shia darbar to get his shaji's blessing( he is syed)on arriving at the darbar, what i saw next shocked me to my very core, there was an old man at the entrance,who was shahji's uncle, my husband touched his feet then touched his own forehead,i just put my head forward, we then went inside where shajis sister was, again the same happened,i was told to sit on the floor because no mere humans could sit on same level as syeds, we then went in to meetr shahji, my husband went straight to shahji ,grabbed his feet and went into sajda,shahji didnt try to stop him, again i only put my head forward , each and everytime we went back,the same thing happened,these are the only times i have knowingly disobeyed my husband i want to know if this is not shirk/gunnah then what is it,it states clealy in theHolyQuran, that sajida is for Allah and Allah alone. no human being dead or alive, be he a Prophet,syed,or wali. there has been noone greater person (before or after) than the Holy Prophet SWA, Himself,if we cannot do sajida before Him swa, then who is this shahji to demand sajida from his followers,please enlighten me as this is causing many problems for me and my husband

Wa-Alaikumus-Salaam. Lets go through this bit by bit. There are not only Shia darbars but also Sunni darbars. The people who are berried there are Awliya, Awsiya, Peers etc. These are people who had great wisdom and knowledge. Some had great healing powers but people have to differ from the right ones and the wrong ones. How??? You go and check their past and have a look into their history and back ground. Such people deserve to be respected and honoured. As far as blessing is concerned it does not say that Allah is the only one who can bless. Allah has given such rights to others who deserve it. For example: It is said about Allah that he is [Ar-Raheem] meaning the most blessful, not the only one who is blessful. This clearly means that there are others, apart from Allah, who can bless. I can give you many more examples but I am going to keep it short. Giving somebody such respect by touching their feet is not a crime. Where does it say that you can't kiss somebodies forehead, touch their feet etc or do the same to anything or object which resembles them, is close to them or reminds you of them??? Again giving somebody such respect by not siitting at the same level as them is not a crime. Where does it say your not supose to do that???? It depends how dear the person, thing or object is to you. Now going into Sajdah for anybody,anything or anyone apart from Allah is Haraam. Even bowing, doing Sajdah to Messengers and Prophet's is also Haraam. If one believes and continues such then they are out of the fold of Islam. It does not matter who you are. No leader. power, source, thing and being of any sort can demand or accept Sajdah from anyone full stop. Wassalaam.

Edited by Ameen

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My Uncle's Sunni Barelhvi in-law also touch their pirs feet, Their 'Shahji' gets a lot of love from them. It more of a Sufi thing. These kind of fringe groups go back a long way in both Sunnism and Shiism

@bhooka_bhariya .A few years ago when i was in pakistan,on the demand of a friend,i visited Sehwan (sindh) and there i had the chance of a meeting with Imran liaqat Hussain. He claims to an "Ayathullah" and have settled besides the shrine of Lal shehbaz.I did not take him serious as his beliefs were nuseyri and he had a weird explanation of wahdat-ul-wajood ( of which even Muhy ud din Ibn Arabi himself might have never thought). I just cant get onething that if these so called shias dont belong to shiasm, why dont the shia scholars do an open takfeer of him? Why dont the shias remove such weak narrations from their scriptures on which these people establish their reasoning? I think , till the day texts like " Ali Allah az azal Guftam" exist, such confusions will keep on prevailing.

watch the people doing sajda to him and listen him castigating the religion as a whole.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTyJaDARpHc

Is that the so-called Nusayri brother of Dr. Amir Liaqat I've heard about?

They're not Shia's anymore, they're Qalandari Sufis even though they may call themselves Akhbaris or Nusayris to continue attracting gullible Shias. They've turned their back on all orthodox religion, both Shiism and Sunnim. They're like the Nusayris and Alevis or Turkey and Syria. But as for making Takfeer, is that in our power to do so? If we call them kafir would that be a truth? Since they still believe in the Muslim creed

Edited by JimJam

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Guest Haider
On 1/2/2011 at 3:30 AM, Cosmos said:

Ok brother, you seem to have these misconception, Imam Ali is regarded as the master of the faithfulls, Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) does not control who enters and exits paradise, who fallacied that wrong ideology to you? He is an infallible but does not have Godlike attributes (God forbid), you probably have mistaked us with Alawi people, you should ask them why they think what they think!!

Ok brother, Ali is the criteria not the actual force to drive people in and out of heaven and hell but Ali is the criteria of hell and heaven as Umar himself said that whoever hates Ali is a munafiq and whoever loves Ali will go to heaven.. with Imam Sadiq (عليه السلام)’s hadith its shown when Imam says “heaven and hell have already been distributed through either love or hatred of Imam Ali. there are certain posts majority Sunni and Shia wont believe even if its explained to them but to sum up.. Imam Ali can never be understood like the Imam said himself “if your mind runs after us with the intention of understanding our being will always be injured” People havent even understood Allah and the Prophet yet so understanding Imam Ali will be too much brain work. Imam Ali born in the kaaba

Imam Ali first Muslim

Imam Ali every battle fought and won

Imam Ali’ sons are the leaders of the youth in paradise 

Imam Ali married the only daughter of the holy Prophet, Fatima SA who is the foremost queen of heaven beyond khatija SA and mariam SA, 

Imam Ali portrayed godly power in wars such a khayber

ayats of the Qur'an have come down after him doing something  such as:

 

33:33

17:80

5:67

5:3

70:1

55:22

37:107

97:1

108:1

42:23

Ayat Ghadeer  just to name a few so what my point is, widen your scope, an attempt to comprehend who Ali is will be impossible, like how the Prophet said “no one knows Ali like myself and Allah, no one knows me like Ali and Allah, and know one knows Allah like me and Ali” theres no real limit to the greatest of Ali and Muhammed, its just that they arent Allah, thats literally all it is.

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Guest Ali haq
On 1/2/2011 at 9:30 AM, Cosmos said:

Ok brother, you seem to have these misconception, Imam Ali is regarded as the master of the faithfulls, Imam Ali ((عليه السلام)) does not control who enters and exits paradise, who fallacied that wrong ideology to you? He is an infallible but does not have Godlike attributes (God forbid), you probably have mistaked us with Alawi people, you should ask them why they think what they think!!

whoever dislikes Ali (عليه السلام) goes to hell and whoever loves him goes to heaven. as stated by the Prophet SAWW, this is how Ali (عليه السلام) has control over who goes where

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There is a peculiarly close relation between Prophet Jesus ('a) and Imam 'Ali ('a). Prophet Muhammad (S) himself is reported to have pointed this out:

It is reported that Imam 'Ali ('a) said, “The Messenger of Allah called me and said, 'O 'Ali! Verily, there is a similarity between you and Jesus the son of Mary ('a). The Christians love him so much that they put him in a position that was not for him; and the Jews hate him so much that they even slandered his mother.' And 'Ali ('a) said, 'Two [groups of] men will be ruined because of me, he who goes to extremes in love of me for what I do not have and he who hates me with a hatred that makes him slander me.

Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 35, pp. 318-319, no. 14

This is pretty well known among the Shia.

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@The Green Knight

There's no 'ghulu' in Imam Ali (عليه السلام) being

قسيم الجنة و النار 

As others have clarified, this is related to his love or hatred which leads to either heaven or hell. 

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