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In the Name of God بسم الله

Why Is Shia Islam The True Direction?

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  • Advanced Member

Assalamu aleikum..

I'm looking for ahadtih and Quran verses who proof that shia Islam is the true direction and here i mean its importent to look at the khalifa cause its the difference with sunni and shia Islam. Moreover I need sunni ahadith as evidence for that shia Islam is true cause i know there is ahadtih like this.

Thanks a lot

Wa Salam :)

Edited by Ya-rasulAllah
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I will be general and not specific.

Study the Holy Quran and you will see the emphasis Allah (swt) puts on the concept of the 'chosen' people of the family of the Prophet (saww). Also it is clear that Allah (swt) alone has the right to choose a leader and not the people. These are couple of things that differentiate us Shias from the Sunnis.

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Salam Alaikum brother/sister:

The issue and differences between Shia and Sunni are very complex issues with allot of detail, that, unfortunately cannot be summarised by a few hadiths.

But a valuable advice my dear mother has given me, Disregard the whole concept of Shia and Sunni. You are a Muslim. Period.

Allah has called and named you a Muslim, don't extrapolate or add to that by further segregating the Muslim community by putting a banner on your forehead indicating which "Islam" you believe in, Shia or Sunni. =]

If only we made more effort to criticize our own behavior, beliefs and philosophy in order to improve ourselves, rather than pretend we are above everyone else and constantly send down judgments on who is going to hell and who is going to heaven. Who is a Muslim and who is a Kaffir. Who is right and who is wrong. A lifetime of conviction and sincerity for falsehood can be uprooted by a single moment of realization of the truth.Then put your trust in Allah and wish to guide you. Recently have come to realize even with all the knowledge and wisdom in the world, were it Allah's wishes i would still not see the right path. And even with all the ignorance and lack of intellect another may be guided by Allah. He chooses whom he will and he leads astray whom he wills.

Brother/sister, in 10 or 20 years time which school of though you choose now may change, your perspective of life may change, your social setting may change, your personality may change, your relation will Allah may change.....but in the midst of this ocean of changes, the single thing that does not change is your deeds. And on the Day of Reckoning, it is your deeds that you will be judged on, not whether you "picked" the right school of thought or not, and as i previously said, true guidance is only with Allah, irrespective of your knowledge, perceived level of wisdom, or sincerity (verily there are are people who knowledgeable, consider themselves wise and are sincere to their own religion, who are Buddhists, Jews, Sunni, Shia, Salafi, Atheist..or whatever.)

Focus on your deeds, struggle in the way of Allah, pray much, be kind to your parents, orphans and the needy, be just in your judgement and kind to the world. Allah will take care of the rest. Peace. =]

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Assalamu aleikum..

I'm looking for ahadtih and Quran verses who proof that shia Islam is the true direction and here i mean its importent to look at the khalifa cause its the difference with sunni and shia Islam. Moreover I need sunni ahadith as evidence for that shia Islam is true cause i know there is ahadtih like this.

Thanks a lot

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmetu Allahi wa barekato.

Evidence for the Shia conception of Imamate in the Quran: (post #1)

Also read: (post #4)

and (post #17)

Then let me know what you think.

But a valuable advice my dear mother has given me, Disregard the whole concept of Shia and Sunni. You are a Muslim. Period.

Allah has called and named you a Muslim, don't extrapolate or add to that by further segregating the Muslim community by putting a banner on your forehead indicating which "Islam" you believe in, Shia or Sunni. =]

There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a Shi'i. It is not (and should not) be an attempt to be disunited. Indeed, the Quran does emphasise unity. But not at the cost of the truth. So when we say the Shia and Sunnis should be more united, this means that they should work together for the sake of helping the Muslims around the globe and for the sake of pleasing Allah, subhanahu wa tala. It does not mean that we sacrifice our belief in the Imams to unite for them. The truth cannot be sacrifice for unity. Afterall, the Shia and Sunni may be Muslims, but there is no such thing as a Muslim who is "not Sunni, not Shi'i, just Muslim". Why? Because you will always fall into one sect or another. Do you pray with your hands on chest or by your side? You cannot be neutral; you must choose a position! Either you follow Shafi'i, Ahmed bin Hanbel, and Abu Hanifa or you are following Malik or Jafar as-Sadiq, aleyhis salam. Do you believe that we have total free will, like I hear the Mutazallites did, or do you believe that there is total predestination, like apparently Abu Hanifa believed, or do you believe there is a balance, like as-Sadiq, aleyhis salam, taught? As you can see by doing things a certain way, which is unavoidable, you fall in one group or another. It is thus important to make sure you fall into the right group! This is done by seeking the truth.

Peace.

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There is nothing wrong with calling yourself a Shi'i. It is not (and should not) be an attempt to be disunited. Indeed, the Quran does emphasise unity. But not at the cost of the truth. So when we say the Shia and Sunnis should be more united, this means that they should work together for the sake of helping the Muslims around the globe and for the sake of pleasing Allah, subhanahu wa tala. It does not mean that we sacrifice our belief in the Imams to unite for them. The truth cannot be sacrifice for unity. Afterall, the Shia and Sunni may be Muslims, but there is no such thing as a Muslim who is "not Sunni, not Shi'i, just Muslim". Why? Because you will always fall into one sect or another. Do you pray with your hands on chest or by your side? You cannot be neutral; you must choose a position! Either you follow Shafi'i, Ahmed bin Hanbel, and Abu Hanifa or you are following Malik or Jafar as-Sadiq, aleyhis salam. Do you believe that we have total free will, like I hear the Mutazallites did, or do you believe that there is total predestination, like apparently Abu Hanifa believed, or do you believe there is a balance, like as-Sadiq, aleyhis salam, taught? As you can see by doing things a certain way, which is unavoidable, you fall in one group or another. It is thus important to make sure you fall into the right group! This is done by seeking the truth.

Peace.

Salam Alaikum dearest brother:

Thank you for you intelligent, thoughtful and polite answer. =]

First of all brother let me ask you a few question:

1)if a Sunni brother who is very knowledgeable and sincere to Allah, prays with his hands on his chest, is his prayers void?

2) do ALL the Mutazallites believe in total free will, or is it just the majority of them?

3)and do ALL those who follow Abu Hanifa's teachings believe in total predestination?

Question 1:

-->YES) If your answer to the first question was yes, that the Sunni brother's prayer is void, then answer me this: how is it then ever possible to know we are on the right path, when all our wisdom and sincerity prove to be fruitless as in the case of this Sunni brother? then life, our beliefs and our quest to be on the right path becomes like a game of Russian roulette. Since your sincerity and knowledge can still land you on the wrong path, then there is absolutely nothing you can do to increase your chances to be on the right path!

..but allas! tis is falsehood! As i mentioned previously true guidance is with Allah. What we CAN do is regulate and monitor our behavior and our deeds. A good deed done by a Shia is worth the same as the one done by a Sunni. Allah is Just. It is not so much as what we hold on our tongues that matter(our label of Shia and Sunni) but what is more important is our state of heart and soul (which is determined by actions).

--> NO) if your answer to question one was no, his prayers are still valid, then your argument that how you place your hands during prayers is void, as you have admitted to the premise of that argument to be invalid, and one cannot draw a valid conclusion from an invalid and void logic/reasoning.

Question 2 & 3:

--> YES) if your answer to question 2 & 3 was yes, then this is indeed a very strange case, for there is division between people on all matters within all groups and sub-groups. Further this lack of division has two sources:

a) all have the same opinion becasue they critically think the same way

b.) all have been taught and conditioned the same way, and they have accepted this passively. A phenomenon more prevalent than Muslims would like to admit.

as for case (a) only way this is possible or reasonable to assume is if the issue of 'free will' was the central issue on which they have been formed. Meaning, they are Mutazallites first and foremost because they ALL believe in total free will, and all other aspects of Islam was secondary considerations. This is very unlikely and very unreasonable.

as for case (b.) their faith is "blind faith" meaning they have accpeted what others have merely imposed on them, be it their sheikhs, parents, friends or family, without critical analysis or judgment. I deter such faiths, because if had Allah willed and they were born into an atheist family, they would be kaffirs now. Their faith and religion is not their own choosing, someone told him something and he immediately believed it.

--> NO) returning to our question, if your answer was no to question 2 and 3, which is more reasonable then you have admittedly accepted that we choose what we follow and which aspects of a school of thought we follow. When we label ourselves as a "Hanafi", it doesn't mean we follow every ruling and every belief and judgment. We merely believe in majority of it. what this implies is that this "position" that you mentioned, is to an extent personalised. There is no one size fits all, if you're a Shia you believe in all of this, you have no choice or say. And if your a Salafi you believe in all of this, and you have no say. BUt rather we make judgment and decision on what we believe based on our level of wisdom and knowledge. I may hold a view today, but after research change it tomorrow.

Finally what is the purpose of all of this? The sects, the division and the different schools of thought?...to guide us on the right way. is the right way a magical footpath? ..no, it is the knowledge and wisdom to distinguish between right and wrong and to act upon that knowledge. I'm yet to meet a Muslim who doesn't know the difference between right and wrong conduct. And as previosuly mentioned, were we to humble ourselves and focus internally on our OWN shortcoming and problems in deed and action, we would be busy for the rest pof our lives in the pursuit of perfection in the sight of Allah. Peace.

ps: sorry if my argument is in-coherent and flawed, it's early in the morning. Further if there is anything wrong with my rebuttal, please correct me. =]

Edited by Teach Me
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Salam Alaikum dearest brother:

Wa alaykum assalam wa rahmetu Allahi wa barekato.

Thank you for you intelligent, thoughtful and polite answer. =]

First of all brother let me ask you a few question:

1)if a Sunni brother who is very knowledgeable and sincere to Allah, prays with his hands on his chest, is his prayers void?

I do not know the answer to that question. However a likely answer would either be that, yes his Salaat is void, or no, his Salaat is not void because he is following another madhab which he believes in.

Question 1:

-->YES) If your answer to the first question was yes, that the Sunni brother's prayer is void, then answer me this: how is it then ever possible to know we are on the right path, when all our wisdom and sincerity prove to be fruitless as in the case of this Sunni brother? then life, our beliefs and our quest to be on the right path becomes like a game of Russian roulette. Since your sincerity and knowledge can still land you on the wrong path, then there is absolutely nothing you can do to increase your chances to be on the right path!

This is not correct because if the Sunni has studied the various sects, with an open mind, the facts had been explained properly, etc. then he would have become an Imami. Only stubborness, or arrogance, or blindness, etc. would have kept him in his current beliefs. This also applied to the Arabs in the time of the Prophet; the reason why many of them did not become Muslims even though they recognised that Islam was the truth, was due to these reasons. The truth is not a game of chance, where you hope you are in the right group. It is clear enough if properly studied with a knowledgable guide.

--> NO) if your answer to question one was no, his prayers are still valid, then your argument that how you place your hands during prayers is void, as you have admitted to the premise of that argument to be invalid, and one cannot draw a valid conclusion from an invalid and void logic/reasoning.

We should pray how the Prophet (pbuh) prayed, because he is the one who taught the Deen in the correct manner. To pray in any other way risks making your Salaat batil/void. Obviously, there is the factor of ignorance would come into play when the Lord judges a deed which is performed incorrectly.

2) do ALL the Mutazallites believe in total free will, or is it just the majority of them?

I may be mistaken, but if I remember correctly, the majority of them, if not all, believed in complete free will.

3)and do ALL those who follow Abu Hanifa's teachings believe in total predestination?

This is irrelevant. The Sunnis follow Abu Hanifa in his fiqh rulings, not in his theological beliefs/teachings. For theology, they may turn to the Ashari school or Athari school, etc.

Question 2 & 3:

--> YES) if your answer to question 2 & 3 was yes, then this is indeed a very strange case, for there is division between people on all matters within all groups and sub-groups. Further this lack of division has two sources:

a) all have the same opinion becasue they critically think the same way

b.) all have been taught and conditioned the same way, and they have accepted this passively. A phenomenon more prevalent than Muslims would like to admit.

as for case (a) only way this is possible or reasonable to assume is if the issue of 'free will' was the central issue on which they have been formed. Meaning, they are Mutazallites first and foremost because they ALL believe in total free will, and all other aspects of Islam was secondary considerations. This is very unlikely and very unreasonable.

as for case (b.) their faith is "blind faith" meaning they have accpeted what others have merely imposed on them, be it their sheikhs, parents, friends or family, without critical analysis or judgment. I deter such faiths, because if had Allah willed and they were born into an atheist family, they would be kaffirs now. Their faith and religion is not their own choosing, someone told him something and he immediately believed it.

Those called Mutazallites can be grouped into that group because of the major beliefs they shared, such as over free will, Adalah/justice and rationality.

--> NO) returning to our question, if your answer was no to question 2 and 3, which is more reasonable then you have admittedly accepted that we choose what we follow and which aspects of a school of thought we follow. When we label ourselves as a "Hanafi", it doesn't mean we follow every ruling and every belief and judgment. We merely believe in majority of it. what this implies is that this "position" that you mentioned, is to an extent personalised. There is no one size fits all, if you're a Shia you believe in all of this, you have no choice or say. And if your a Salafi you believe in all of this, and you have no say. BUt rather we make judgment and decision on what we believe based on our level of wisdom and knowledge. I may hold a view today, but after research change it tomorrow.

Properly, you should not be following anything partly. If you are turning to, say, Abu Hanifa for fiqh, then you should follow him in all of his fiqh rulings; because if you do not, then you are indirectly implying that Abu Hanifa made errors in his fatwas/rulings which then poses the question "why are you following a man who made some mistakes and incorrect rulings, when there may be other incorrect rulings that you do not know about?" It also poses the question "why are you turning to a man who did not have complete knowledge of the Deen? Is this how Allah, azza wa jalla, guards his religion?" If a person starts saying that one ruling of Abu Hanifa is correct, and another ruling of Abu Hanifa is incorrect, then you might as well not be following him; in-fact, are you really following him. Why? Because you're rederiving the rulings based on a process of evidence (or reasoning), which means you're putting yourself in Abu Hanifa's position or as a rival to him.

Finally what is the purpose of all of this? The sects, the division and the different schools of thought?...to guide us on the right way. is the right way a magical footpath? ..no, it is the knowledge and wisdom to distinguish between right and wrong and to act upon that knowledge. I'm yet to meet a Muslim who doesn't know the difference between right and wrong conduct. And as previosuly mentioned, were we to humble ourselves and focus internally on our OWN shortcoming and problems in deed and action, we would be busy for the rest pof our lives in the pursuit of perfection in the sight of Allah. Peace.

I agree that many humans have a shared sense of morality. But we must turn to God's Deen for the guidance of right and wrong. We must turn to God's Deen, and those who perfectly preserved it, to practice it correctly. One cannot dismiss the importance of practicing Islam as God's Messenger taught it.

Peace.

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Salam my brothers and sisters in islam,

I'm not a Shia, im not Sufi, im not suni. Im just a muslim mate. All this were right, no were right is giving me a headache. :S

It states quite clearly in the Quran;

"Verily, those who divide their religion and break up into sects (all kinds of religious sects), you (O Muhammad SAW) have no concern in them in the least. Their affair is only with Allâh, Who then will tell them what they used to do."

Q.23:52:

God's saying its childish - so stop it? :)

Yeah i didn't realy expect that to work. So I dont know if any of you watch the news? Well mostly its just propaganda and put frankly a load of rubbish. But... occasionaly there is important stuff hidden in the rubbish.

Such as...i dunno. Half the middle easts been attacked by zionists... anyone heard no? The zionists have taken control of palestine and is quite openly destroying the Al aksa mosque foundation upwards, NO LIE! :o

Sooo I think we can safely say, we muslims, (notice how i use the plural - as in we are one!) are in a pretty poor state.

Heres a notion...try to keep an open mind...

anyone ever made a list of what all the 'sects' have in common? as oposed to our differences.

Say for example, We believe in the one true God, Allah. We believe the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, is his final messenger. We pray five times a day, we fast, give charity, and all hope to go on Hajj one day. Oh wait thats the 5 pillars of islam. so we disagree on small issues.

Thats the thing - they are small issues. But theyre causing muslims around the world to go mental and attack each other. :\

Which is slighlty worrying.. as while people were making exclusive forums for 'shia' or 'sunni' muslims only. The zionists took over the world :o oops

I blame the religious leaders personaly.. theyre so determined to be right, that they can't sit down discuss and sort out the small differences...So we could all just be called Muslims again. :(

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Salam Alaikum dearest brother:

Thank you for you intelligent, thoughtful and polite answer. =]

First of all brother let me ask you a few question:

1)if a Sunni brother who is very knowledgeable and sincere to Allah, prays with his hands on his chest, is his prayers void?

Nobody really can answer that question from you. We all pray so that we strive to have our prayers accepted by God. That is the goal.

Muslims who pray according to the method they have been taught according to the Prophet, and aren't intentionally doing something against that, are doing what they can to inshala have their prayers accepted.

If someone follows the teachings of Ahlul Bait, and the prominent maraje3, then according to them, it makes their prayer void if they put their hands on their chest for no good reason (like imminent danger).

A good example is that if someone starts to follow the teachings of Ahlul bait, having followed the teachings in Bukhari and Muslim for example, then I have yet to find a scholar that will say that all previous prayers must be repeated and are void.

Edited by Jerwayne
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Someone told me a nice story. Plz read this if u have read the whole thread.

A Dog fell in to a well and died.

The water became undrinkable.

The owner of the well decided to consult all Sunni and Shia scholars as to how many buckets of water if removed would make the well clean again.

Sunnis and all their sects said x number of buckets and Shias said y number of buckets will make the well clean again.

He called all Sunni and Shia scholars home and gave them a glass of water each.

They were about to drink the water that a observed a pungent smell and few of them observed hairs in water.

They said it is still najis and even wudhu cannot be done. To this he replied; I have removed as many buckets of water as u all said.

They asked: did u remove the dog.

He replied: no

they all unanimously said: how is it possible to remove the impurity when u still have the najasat inside.

The owner of the well replied: that is what I always say: how would any Amal of sharia benefit u when u still have the najasath of the love and respect of enemies of ahlulbayth a.s. in your hearts.

Ya Ali Madad

Edited by siraatoaliyinhaqqun
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  • 1 year later...
  • Advanced Member

So this is how you explain to people why shia Islam is the truth? Interesting ..

(salam)

Granted I understand your concerns with the post you quoted, it seems quite unfair to ignore all the other posts in the thread, of which one or two are possibly quite good and may satisfy one's curiosity, and focus on this particular response. This seems intellectually dishonest and quite untoward. In any case, I hope you do realise not every person can reasonably answer many questions and a bad response does not necessarily - if ever - paint a picture of the whole sect. There are many seemingly terrible answers offered for why Islam is the truth, but this should not reflect wholly on Islam, much like a bad scientists' statement should not negatively reflect on the field of science.

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