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zakzaki

Sunni Sahaba And Their To Support To Yezid (la)

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He finally did gve him his Bay'ah.

And the Imams after never gave Bay'ah. Because they never were forced to do so. Had it been Bay'ah or head it would have been head just as their grandfather Imam Hussein (a.s) did.

Your sources say otherwise.

All of the A'imma of the Ahl al-Bayt (as), except for the twelfth Imam (as), were forced to give bay`at to the tyrants of their times. In fact, this is one reason for the ghayba and zhuhur. As our Imam (as) said in his tawqi` to Ishaq b. Ya`qub:

æÃãÇ ÚáÉ ãÇ æÞÚ ãä ÇáÛíÈÉ ÝÅä Çááå ÚÒæÌá íÞæá : « íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ áÇ ÊÓÆáæÇ Úä ÃÔíÇÁ Åä ÊÈÏ áßã ÊÓÄßã » ( 2 ) Åäå áã íßä áÇÍÏ ãä ÂÈÇÆí Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ÅáÇ æÞÏ æÞÚÊ Ýí ÚäÞå ÈíÚÉ áØÇÛíÉ ÒãÇäå ¡ æÅäí ÃÎÑÌ Ííä ÃÎÑÌ ¡ æáÇ ÈíÚÉ áÇÍÏ ãä ÇáØæÇÛíÊ Ýí ÚäÞí .

And as to the cause of the transpiring of the occultation, then verily Allah (aj) says: ‘O you who believe! Do not ask about (those) things which if revealed to you would torment you’ [surat al Ma’idah: 102]. Verily there was not one from my fathers Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã but there happened to be the bay`ah (pledge of allegiance) to the despot of his time on his neck, and I will emerge when I will emerge and there shall not be the bay`ah of anyone of the despots on my neck.

Why don't you get it? That bay'ah is different? Keep taqiyyah the hell out of this. Just keep it out. It has nothing to do with any of it.

Then what is Imam Sadeq (as) saying when he said Taqiyah is my deen and the deen of my forefathers ? Also, refer to source where it says the Imams were forced to give bayah.

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Your sources say otherwise.

All of the A'imma of the Ahl al-Bayt (as), except for the twelfth Imam (as), were forced to give bay`at to the tyrants of their times. In fact, this is one reason for the ghayba and zhuhur. As our Imam (as) said in his tawqi` to Ishaq b. Ya`qub:

æÃãÇ ÚáÉ ãÇ æÞÚ ãä ÇáÛíÈÉ ÝÅä Çááå ÚÒæÌá íÞæá : « íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ áÇ ÊÓÆáæÇ Úä ÃÔíÇÁ Åä ÊÈÏ áßã ÊÓÄßã » ( 2 ) Åäå áã íßä áÇÍÏ ãä ÂÈÇÆí Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ÅáÇ æÞÏ æÞÚÊ Ýí ÚäÞå ÈíÚÉ áØÇÛíÉ ÒãÇäå ¡ æÅäí ÃÎÑÌ Ííä ÃÎÑÌ ¡ æáÇ ÈíÚÉ áÇÍÏ ãä ÇáØæÇÛíÊ Ýí ÚäÞí .

And as to the cause of the transpiring of the occultation, then verily Allah (aj) says: ‘O you who believe! Do not ask about (those) things which if revealed to you would torment you’ [surat al Ma’idah: 102]. Verily there was not one from my fathers Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã but there happened to be the bay`ah (pledge of allegiance) to the despot of his time on his neck, and I will emerge when I will emerge and there shall not be the bay`ah of anyone of the despots on my neck.

Then what is Imam Sadeq (as) saying when he said Taqiyah is my deen and the deen of my forefathers ? Also, refer to source where it says the Imams were forced to give bayah.

This is the difference between the Sunnis and Shias beliefs.

None of the Imams gave bayah. If they would have given bayah they would have lived lived the most luxurious lives and would not have been murdered by the tyrants (LA) of their time. They (as) lived the most simple lives, mostly imprisoned and were all martyred by their enemies.

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Okay, then please prove that ibn Umar (ra) lived in a life of luxury after giving the bayah to Yazid.

Fatah ul Bar, Volume 13 page 80:

Nafee narrated that Mu'awiya wanted Ibn Umar to give Bayya to Yazid, but he (Ibn Umar) refused and said: 'I don't give bayya to two princes'. Then Mu'awyia sent 100,000 Dirham to him and he (ibn Umar) received it. Then he (Mu'awiya) sent a man to him (Ibn Umar) and he (the man) said to him (ibn Umar): 'What is stopping you from giving bayya?' He (ibn Umar) replied: 'If this (money) is for that (bayya) then my faith is of low price'. When Mu'awyia died Ibn Umar gave bayya to Yazid.

http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/who_killed_imam_hussain/en/chap4.php

It is strange that Abdullah ibne Umar did not give bayah to the most needed and most important person Imam Ali (as) but subsequently gave bayah to Fasiq drunkard Yezid (LA) calling it the Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh).

Is this your eeman?

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Copying and pasting from Sunni opponent sites is not proof.

Plus the site is full of contradiction.

You quoted this...

Fatah ul Bar, Volume 13 page 80:

Nafee narrated that Mu'awiya wanted Ibn Umar to give Bayya to Yazid, but he (Ibn Umar) refused and said: 'I don't give bayya to two princes'. Then Mu'awyia sent 100,000 Dirham to him and he (ibn Umar) received it. Then he (Mu'awiya) sent a man to him (Ibn Umar) and he (the man) said to him (ibn Umar): 'What is stopping you from giving bayya?' He (ibn Umar) replied: 'If this (money) is for that (bayya) then my faith is of low price'. When Mu'awyia died Ibn Umar gave bayya to Yazid.

But the introduction says something else.

When bribery did not work as intended Muawiya resorted to coercion. According to Hafiz Ibn Katheer there were five well known personalities who refused to give their allegiance to Yazid.

1. Abdul Rehman bin Abu Bakr

2. Abdullah Ibn Umer

3. Abdullah Ibn Zubair

4. Hussain bin Ali

5. Ibn Abbas

Also in the same citation on answering ansaar quotes ibn Hajar saying

Allamah Ibn Hajr Asqalani writes:

Muawiya demanded that Abdullah bin Umar give his allegiance to Yazid. He sent him hundred thousand dirhams but Abdullah bin Umar refused to take the money.

Fatah ul Bari, Volume 13 page 80

On top of that the same site you quoted from admits that Yazid forced the Muslim population to go into an active taqiyyah.

The readers can make up their own minds based on the above historical facts and come to the conclusion that how Yazid and his Shia (helpers) wanted to kill everyone regardless of who they were so he could solidify his own tyrannical rule.

What is Taqiyyah ?

Taqiyah is a method used to save one's life.

Edited by Abdaal

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Copying and pasting from Sunni opponent sites is not proof.

Plus the site is full of contradiction.

You quoted this...

Fatah ul Bar, Volume 13 page 80:

Nafee narrated that Mu'awiya wanted Ibn Umar to give Bayya to Yazid, but he (Ibn Umar) refused and said: 'I don't give bayya to two princes'. Then Mu'awyia sent 100,000 Dirham to him and he (ibn Umar) received it. Then he (Mu'awiya) sent a man to him (Ibn Umar) and he (the man) said to him (ibn Umar): 'What is stopping you from giving bayya?' He (ibn Umar) replied: 'If this (money) is for that (bayya) then my faith is of low price'. When Mu'awyia died Ibn Umar gave bayya to Yazid.

But the introduction says something else.

When bribery did not work as intended Muawiya resorted to coercion. According to Hafiz Ibn Katheer there were five well known personalities who refused to give their allegiance to Yazid.

1. Abdul Rehman bin Abu Bakr

2. Abdullah Ibn Umer

3. Abdullah Ibn Zubair

4. Hussain bin Ali

5. Ibn Abbas

Also in the same citation on answering ansaar quotes ibn Hajar saying

Allamah Ibn Hajr Asqalani writes:

Muawiya demanded that Abdullah bin Umar give his allegiance to Yazid. He sent him hundred thousand dirhams but Abdullah bin Umar refused to take the money.

Fatah ul Bari, Volume 13 page 80

Are't the references Sunni?

and secondly what do you think about this

It is strange that Abdullah ibne Umar did not give bayah to the most needed and most important person Imam Ali (as) but subsequently gave bayah to Fasiq drunkard Yezid (LA) calling it the Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh).

Is that called eeman?

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What is Taqiyyah ?

Taqiyah is a method used to save one's life.

You are not a Shia, so stop pretending like you know what you're talking about. We, on the other hand, are Shia, so you better take our word for it.

Taqiyyah is not simply "a method used to save one's life". We Shias do not value this life over the next, and would willingly give it for the sake of God - taqiyyah is only when there will clearly be no benefit from allowing the loss of a life, and the benefit of keeping the person alive is greater than the loss - for instance, the Imams (as) were only able to keep the religion alive and teach people by staying alive themselves. This did not mean they weren't willing to die if they were put in a position where this was necessary, such as Imam Hussein (as).

Read about it. We live in the 21st century, it shouldn't be too difficult for someone like you.

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Your sources say otherwise.

All of the A'imma of the Ahl al-Bayt (as), except for the twelfth Imam (as), were forced to give bay`at to the tyrants of their times. In fact, this is one reason for the ghayba and zhuhur. As our Imam (as) said in his tawqi` to Ishaq b. Ya`qub:

æÃãÇ ÚáÉ ãÇ æÞÚ ãä ÇáÛíÈÉ ÝÅä Çááå ÚÒæÌá íÞæá : « íÇ ÃíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÂãäæÇ áÇ ÊÓÆáæÇ Úä ÃÔíÇÁ Åä ÊÈÏ áßã ÊÓÄßã » ( 2 ) Åäå áã íßä áÇÍÏ ãä ÂÈÇÆí Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ÅáÇ æÞÏ æÞÚÊ Ýí ÚäÞå ÈíÚÉ áØÇÛíÉ ÒãÇäå ¡ æÅäí ÃÎÑÌ Ííä ÃÎÑÌ ¡ æáÇ ÈíÚÉ áÇÍÏ ãä ÇáØæÇÛíÊ Ýí ÚäÞí .

And as to the cause of the transpiring of the occultation, then verily Allah (aj) says: 'O you who believe! Do not ask about (those) things which if revealed to you would torment you' [surat al Ma'idah: 102]. Verily there was not one from my fathers Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã but there happened to be the bay`ah (pledge of allegiance) to the despot of his time on his neck, and I will emerge when I will emerge and there shall not be the bay`ah of anyone of the despots on my neck.

Then what is Imam Sadeq (as) saying when he said Taqiyah is my deen and the deen of my forefathers ? Also, refer to source where it says the Imams were forced to give bayah.

I would be very grateful if you could privde me the complete narration and the book please..

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You are not a Shia, so stop pretending like you know what you're talking about. We, on the other hand, are Shia, so you better take our word for it.

Taqiyyah is not simply "a method used to save one's life". We Shias do not value this life over the next, and would willingly give it for the sake of God - taqiyyah is only when there will clearly be no benefit from allowing the loss of a life, and the benefit of keeping the person alive is greater than the loss - for instance, the Imams (as) were only able to keep the religion alive and teach people by staying alive themselves. This did not mean they weren't willing to die if they were put in a position where this was necessary, such as Imam Hussein (as).

Read about it. We live in the 21st century, it shouldn't be too difficult for someone like you.

What's the point of talking to people like you? You come on this forum and insult all the sahaba who are not shias. Then you call us to come and defend them. When we try to defend them you mock us. Why are you debating the sunni/shia section ? Are these discussion only to convert Sunnis into 12r Shias ?

Are't the references Sunni?

and secondly what do you think about this

It is strange that Abdullah ibne Umar did not give bayah to the most needed and most important person Imam Ali (as) but subsequently gave bayah to Fasiq drunkard Yezid (LA) calling it the Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh).

Is that called eeman?

I've already told you he repented after. He also regretting for his lack of support toward Imam Ali (as).

I would be very grateful if you could privde me the complete narration and the book please..

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/tauqeeaat-of-imam-al-asr

Edited by Abdaal

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Don't close your eyes upon fact that there are different opinion narrated from him on this hadith.

From book “Sualat ibn Junayd, Abu Iskhaq Ibrahim ibn Abdullah al-Hanbali li Abu Zakariya Yahya ibn Maeen” pp 284-285, printed by “Darul Madina al-Munawara”.

Translation:

I heard Yahya ibn Maeen, and question (him) about Umar ibn Ismail ibn Mujalad? He (Yahya) said: “Liar, narrated hadith from Abe Moawiyah from al-Amash from Mujahid from Ibn Abbas from messenger (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam): “I am city of knowledge and Ali it’s gate”, and this hadith is lie, there is no asl (base) for it”.

Don't pretend to be smart! When scholars have contradictory verdicts on a Hadith or narrator, the most appropriate question to ask is: which of the contradictory opinions is later?

So, what was his last verdict on this Hadith?

Of course, you know! This is why some of your finest Hadithists have relied upon his authentication of the Hadith. Only Nawasib still take around his old (perhaps even falsely attributed) opinion. Let me copy-paste from Answering Ansar:

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 7 page 378:

æ ÍÏíË ÃäÇ ãÏíäÉ ÇáÚáã æ Úáí ÈÇÈåÇ ÇÖÚÝ æ Ãæåì æ áåÐÇ ÅäãÇ íÚÏ Ýí ÇáãæÖæÚÇÊ

“The tradition of ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ is weaker (than other traditions). Therefore it is counted among the fabrications”.

Reality

A number of highranking Sunni Imams have graded the Hadith as authentic. Al-Hakim recorded it in his book al-Mustadrak, volume 3, page 126 and declared it as Sahih. Imam Yahya ibn Moin declared it as Sahih (Tahdib al-Kamal, v18 p72 Translation 3421). Imam Ibn Jareer Tabari in his book 'Tahdib al-Athaar' page 104 declared it as Sahih. Imam Ibn Hajar Asqalani declared it as Hasan (al-Fawaed al-Majmoa, Volume 1, p348 by Shawkani). Suyuti said: ‘Hasan’ (Tarikh al-khulafa, v1 p69). Al-Shawkani in his book 'al-Fawaed al-Majmoa' volume 1 page 348 declared it as ‘Hasan le Gharyu’. Al-Sakhawi in his book 'al-Maqasid al-Hasana' page 123 declared it as ‘Hasan’. Abdullah al-Ghemari in his book 'Rad Etebar al-Jame al-Saghir' page 15 declared it as Sahih. Ahmad bin al-Sidiq in his book 'Fath al-Malik' page 10 declared it as Sahih. Allamah Hassan al-Saqaf in the footnote of his book 'Tanaqudat Albaani' volume 3 page 82 declared it as Sahih. Al-Zarkashi in his book 'al-Leale al-Manthura' page 163 declared it as Hasan. Muhammad ibn Tulun al-Hanafi (d. 953 H) in his book 'al-Shazara' page 130 declared it as Hasan. Imam Al-Zarqani in his book 'Mukhtasar al-Maqaed' page 170 declared it as Hasan. While Mullah Muttaqi Hindi wrote:

‘I answered (that the hadith is Hasan) for years until I noticed that Ibn Jareer declared this hadith Sahih in his book Tahdib al-Athaar beside the declaration of being Sahih by al-Hakim of this tradition that is narrated by ibn Abbas. I then performed isthikhara and became convinced that the Hadeeth 'I am the city of knowledge and 'Ali is its gate' is Sahih not Hasan. Allah knows best.’

Kanz al Ummal, Volume 13 page 148 Tradition 36464

Allamah Muhammad bin Yusuf al-Salehi al-Shami (d. 942 H) declared it Hasan (Subul al-Huda wa al-Rashad, Volume 1, p501). Imam Samarqandi declared it Sahih (Fath al-Malik by Hafiz Ibn Sidiq, p60). Hanafi Imam Mullah Ali Qari in his famed work Mirqat Sharh Mishkat, Volume 5 page 571 records that according to Imam Darqutni this hadith is Thaabit (proven). Imam of Ahle Sunnah Salahuddin Khalil al-Alaai (d. 761 H) declared this Hadith as Hasan (Kashf al-Khafa by Ajloni, v1 p203) and for all those who have criticized this Hadith out of Nasibism, he stated:

‘Neither Abu al-Faraj nor others provided any tangible argument for the hadith except the claim of being fabricated and they reject it because of its content’

al-Laale al-Masnoa by Suyuti, Volume 1 page 306

The Mufti of Dar ul Uloom Qadiriyah Jilaniyah, London namely Mufti Ghulam Rasool al-Hanafi refutes the statement of Ibn Taimiyah in the following manner:

“Question: Ibn Taimiyah in his book Minhaj al-Sunnah has stated that the Hadith of ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ is extremely weak and it has been counted amongst the Modhouat. When it is weak and Maudhu then it cannot be used for inference.

Answer: The statement of Ibn Taimiyah (d. 728) that the Hadith of ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ is weak and Maudhu is void (Batil) and evil (Mardood). Yahyah bin Moin has declared this Hadith as Sahih and has called its main narrator Abu Sult as Thiqa and Seduq. Since Yahyah bin Moin has declared this Hadith as Sahih therefore there should not be any doubt about this Hadith being Sahih and worthy of being inferred because Yahyah bin Moin is Imam of Jarah and Tadeel. While praising him, Ibn Hajar Asqalani wrote….”

Subeh Sadiq, page 156 (Published in London)

Then Mufti Ghulam Rasool took two pages mentioning the authoritative place enjoyed by Yahyah bin Moin in Ahle Sunnah and then he stated:

This proves that Yahyah bin Moin was one of the greatest scholars in the knowledge of Hadith and fields related to it. He was the one who was very well aware of the authenticity or unreliability of Hadith; and Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has also clarified it that Yahyah bin Moin knows more about Sahih or weak Hadith. If Yahyah bin Moin mention the authenticity of any Hadith then it will be deemed Sahih. Those who would state anything opposing that will not be believed. When the Imam of Jarah and Tadeel namely Yahyah bin Moin has declared the Hadith ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ as Sahih; moreover Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal has recorded it; moreover it is recorded in Jami Tirmidhi, then the statement of Ibn Taimiyah calling it weak and Maudhu is wrong and void. Moreover while relying on Yahyah bin Moin, Ibn Taimiyah himself stated that he is among the greatest Muhaditheen from the aspect of veracity, loyalty and Jarah and Tadeel. Moreover he stated: ‘Yahyah bin Moin and others have more capability of knowing the Sahih Hadiths. They have more eligibility of distinguishing between truth and lie, Sahih and Maudhu Hadith. If someone wants to investigate whether a particular Hadith is Sahih or weak or Maudhu, one should refer to Yahyah bin Moin and his likes’ (Tasfiyah Ma bayn Sunni o Shia, page 65 citing Minhaj al-Sunnah).

When Yahyah bin Moin declares a Hadith as Sahih then it is Sahih. When this is the situation then what meaning does the Ibn Taimiyah (d. 728)’s denying the Hadith ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ being Sahih have! Ibn Taimiyah on one hand stated that Yahyah bin Moin has more knowledge in knowing the Sahih or Maudhu Hadith and the statement of Yahyah bin Moin will be more authentic in this regard. But on the other hand Yahyah bin Moin declared the Hadith ‘I am the city of knowledge and Ali is the gate’ as Sahih, Ibn Taimiyah then denied the same and stated that the Hadith is weak and Maudhu. This is stubbornness and extremism of Ibn Taimiyah. Therefore this statement of Ibn Taimiyah is void and evil, and the Hadith is Sahih.

Subeh Sadiq, pages 160-161 (Published in London)

The words of Ibn Taimiyah used by Mufti Ghulam Rasool can be read directly from the online Minhaj al-Sunnah:

ÝÅä åÄáÇÁ ãä Ãßãá ÇáäÇÓ ãÚÑÝÉ ÈÐáß æÃÔÏåã ÑÛÈÉ Ýí ÇáÊãííÒ Èíä ÇáÕÏÞ æÇáßÐÈ

Minhaj al-Sunnah, Volume 8 page 418

This tradition is mentioned in many books:

Al-Mu'ajam al-kabir, by Tabarani, v11, p55

Al-Istiab, by ibn Abdulbar, Volume 3, p1102

Shawahid al-Tanzil, by Hasakani, Volume 1, p105

Tarikh Baghdad, Volume 3, p181

Tarikh Dimashq, v42, p378

Only a Nasibi could have denied such a widely authenticated Hadith. It has been authenticated by the highest ranking Sunni Hadithists, inclduing the Amir al-Muminin of Sunni Hadith sciences, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.

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Only a Nasibi could have denied such a widely authenticated Hadith. It has been authenticated by the highest ranking Sunni Hadithists, inclduing the Amir al-Muminin of Sunni Hadith sciences, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.

if im not mistaken it was you... who tried to prove that manier times imam ibn hajar(rah) contradicted himself.. or made mistakes in hadeeth authentication.. isnt it.

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it was on abdullah b umar's recommendation that Mukhatar Thaqafi was released from prison, why wud he do that if he was such a Nasibi

regarding his not giving bayah to ali, its clear that he was sympathetic to uthman and seeing uthman's opponents in ali's camp and refusal of certain other high profiled sahaba to back ali must have encouraged him.But he firmly remained neutral and stayed in hijaz didnt flee to syria, he also condemned hujr's execution by muawiyah.These characteristics are not of a nasibi

He seemed to lack his fathers conviction though and gave bayat out of fear to ummayyads.

what happened to those sahaba who opposed ummayyads even after hasan's abdication ?

abdullah b hanzala killed

abdullah b zubair killed

hussain b ali killed

abdur rehman b abibakr poisoned

abdur rehman b khalid poisoned

hujr b adi killed

i guess ibn umar's policy was not without a reason ( albiet flawed)

Edited by Panzerwaffe

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it was on abdullah b umar's recommendation that Mukhatar Thaqafi was released from prison, why wud he do that if he was such a Nasibi

regarding his not giving bayah to ali, its clear that he was sympathetic to uthman and seeing uthman's opponents in ali's camp and refusal of certain other high profiled sahaba to back ali must have encouraged him.But he firmly remained neutral and stayed in hijaz didnt flee to syria, he also condemned hujr's execution by muawiyah.These characteristics are not of a nasibi

He seemed to lack his fathers conviction though and gave bayat out of fear to ummayyads.

what happened to those sahaba who opposed ummayyads even after hasan's abdication ?

abdullah b hanzala killed

abdullah b zubair killed

hussain b ali killed

abdur rehman b abibakr poisoned

abdur rehman b khalid poisoned

hujr b adi killed

i guess ibn umar's policy was not without a reason ( albiet flawed)

Like father like Son.

Firstly,

The father, Umar gave Syria to Yezid's (LA) father, Mawiya (LA).

Umar's Son, Ibne Abdullah gave Madina to son of Mawiya (LA), Yezid (LA) by avoiding dethroning of Yezid (LA).

Secondly,

Both Father and Son were cowards and gave deceitful statements.

Umar was a coward who ran in the battle of Hunanin and said that running away was the will of Allah. (astagfurullah).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people (fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah,"

Similarly Abdullah Ibne Umar was also a coward who gave bayah to Yezid (LA) and said giving baya to Yezid (LA) was in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle (pbuh). (astagfurullah).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 227:

Narrated Nafi':

When the people of Medina dethroned Yazid bin Muawiya, Ibn 'Umar gathered his special friends and children and said, "I heard the Prophet saying, 'A flag will be fixed for every betrayer on the Day of Resurrection,' and we have given the oath of allegiance to this person (Yazid) in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle and I do not know of anything more faithless than fighting a person who has been given the oath of allegiance in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle , and if ever I learn that any person among you has agreed to dethrone Yazid, by giving the oath of allegiance (to somebody else) then there will be separation between him and me."

Umar was also treacherous, liar and dishonest according to Imam Ali (as)

Aahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:,,,,, Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. ,,,,,, When the Messenger of Allah pbuh passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor(arabic wali ) of the Messenger of Allah pbuh." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah pbuh had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest . And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah pbuh and Abu Bakr, you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property ,,

What's the point of talking to people like you? You come on this forum and insult all the sahaba who are not shias. Then you call us to come and defend them. When we try to defend them you mock us. Why are you debating the sunni/shia section ? Are these discussion only to convert Sunnis into 12r Shias ?

Nobody is converting anybody we are just discussing the facts. Your religion is for you and our religion is for us.

I've already told you he repented after. He also regretting for his lack of support toward Imam Ali (as).

Do you have proof he repented after giving bayah to Yezid (LA)?

Edited by zakzaki

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Umar was a coward who ran in the battle of Hunanin and said that running away was the will of Allah. (astagfurullah).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people (fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah,"

How the hadith given by you indicates Umar (ra) ran away from battle?

Sahih Muslim

2 م - (1751) - وحدثنا أبو الطاهر وحرملة (واللفظ له). أخبرنا عبدالله بن وهب. قال: سمعت مالك بن أنس يقول: حدثني يحيى بن سعيد عن عمر بن كثير بن أفلح، عن أبي محمد مولى قتادة، عن أبي قتادة. قال:

خرجنا مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عام حنين. فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة. قال: فرأيت رجلا من المشركين قد علا رجلا من المسلمين. فاستدرت إليه حتى أتيته من ورائه. فضربته على حبل عاتقه. وأقبل على فضمني ضمة وجدت منها ريح الموت. ثم أدركه الموت. فأرسلني. فلحقت عمر بن الخطاب فقال: ما للناس؟ فقلت: أمر الله.

Abu Al-Taher and Harmalath (and the saying goes to him). Andullah bin Wahab reported said: I heard Malik bin Anas saying: Yahaya bin Sa’eed narrated from Umar bin Kathir bin Aflah, from Abu Muhammad slave of Abu Qatada, from Abu Qatada said:

We accompanied the Messenger of Allah (my peace be upon him) on an expedition in the year of the Battle of Hunain. When we encountered the enemy, (some of the Muslims turned back (in fear). I saw that a man from the polytheists overpowered one of the Muslims. I turned round and attacked him from behind giving a blow between his neck and shoulder. He turned towards me and grappled with me in such a way that I began to see death staring me in the face. Then death overtook him and left me alone. I joined 'Umar b. al-Khattab who was saying: What has happened to the people (that they are retreating)? I said: It is the Decree of Allah.

4066/4067 - حدثنا عبد الله بن يوسف: أخبرنا مالك، عن يحيى بن سعيد، عن عمر بن كثير بن أفلح، عن أبي محمد مولى أبي قتادة، عن أبي قتادة قال: خرجنا مع النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عام حنين، فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة، فرأيت رجلا من المشركين قد علا رجلا من المسلمين، فضربته من ورائه على حبل عاتقه بالسيف فقطعت الدرع، وأقبل علي فضمني ضمة وجدت منها ريح الموت، ثم أدركه الموت فأرسلني، فلحقت عمر بن الخطاب فقلت: ما بال الناس؟ قال: أمر الله عز وجل.

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out along with the Prophet during the year of (the battle of) Hunain, and when we faced the enemy, the Muslims (with the exception of the Prophet and some of his companions) retreated (before the enemy). I saw one of the pagans over-powering one of the Muslims, so I struck the pagan from behind his neck causing his armor to be cut off. The pagan headed towards me and pressed me so forcibly that I felt as if I was dying. Then death took him over and he released me. Afterwards I followed 'Umar and said to him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the decree of Allah the powerful and supreme."

Sharh Muslim (by Imam Nawawi)

قوله: (كانت للمسلمين جولة) بفتح الجيم أي انهزام وخيفة ذهبوا فيها، وهذا إنما كان في بعض الجيش.

Imam Al-Nawawi commenting on this hadeeths said…that the retreat or defeat was in some of the army (not all).

Sharh Bukhari (by Ibn Hajr)

قوله‏:‏ ‏(‏فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة‏)‏ بفتح الجيم وسكون الواو أي حركة فيها اختلاف، وقد أطلق في رواية الليث الآتية بعدها أنهم انهزموا، لكن بعد القصة التي ذكرها أبو قتادة، وقد تقدم في حديث البراء أن الجميع لم ينهزموا‏.

Similar comment was also made by Ibn Hajr in his sharh Bukhari who said: ‘and it is mentioned in the narration of Al-Laith which will follow that they were defeated, but (the defeat was) after the story which Abu Qatada mentioned, and it has been preceded in the hadeeths of Al-Bar’a that all were not defeated.’

الامام ابن القيم رحمه الله

قال ابن إسحاق : فحدثني عاصم بن عمر بن قتادة ، عن عبد الرحمن بن جابر ، عن أبيه جابر بن عبد الله ، قال لما استقبلنا وادي حنين ، انحدرنا في واد من أودية تهامة أجوف حطوط إنما ننحدر فيه انحدارا . قال وفي عماية الصبح وكان القوم سبقونا إلى الوادي ، فكمنوا لنا في شعابه وأحنائه ومضايقه قد أجمعوا ، وتهيئوا ، وأعدوا فوالله ما راعنا - ونحن منحطون - إلا الكتائب قد شدوا علينا شدة رجل واحد وانشمر الناس راجعين لا يلوي أحد منهم على أحد ، وانحاز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات اليمين ثم قال إلى أين أيها الناس ؟ هلم إلي أنا رسول الله أنا محمد بن عبد الله وبقي مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار وأهل بيته وفيمن ثبت معه من المهاجرين أبو بكر وعمر ، ومن أهل بيته علي والعباس وأبو سفيان بن الحارث وابنه والفضل بن العباس ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأسامة بن زيد ، وأيمن ابن أم أيمن ، وقتل يومئذ .

Imam ibnul Qayyim (rh) in his book Zaad Al-Mi'aad mentions same hadeeths of Jabir bin Abdullah but through different narrator.

And there remain with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him) group from al-Muhajirin and al-Ansaar and from his Ahlul Bait, among them who stood firm from al-Muhajirin were Abu Bakr and Umar, and from his Ahlul Bait Ali, Al-Abbas….

Edited by ibn.askari

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How the hadith given by you indicates Umar (ra) ran away from battle?

Sahih Muslim

2 م - (1751) - وحدثنا أبو الطاهر وحرملة (واللفظ له). أخبرنا عبدالله بن وهب. قال: سمعت مالك بن أنس يقول: حدثني يحيى بن سعيد عن عمر بن كثير بن أفلح، عن أبي محمد مولى قتادة، عن أبي قتادة. قال:

خرجنا مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم عام حنين. فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة. قال: فرأيت رجلا من المشركين قد علا رجلا من المسلمين. فاستدرت إليه حتى أتيته من ورائه. فضربته على حبل عاتقه. وأقبل على فضمني ضمة وجدت منها ريح الموت. ثم أدركه الموت. فأرسلني. فلحقت عمر بن الخطاب فقال: ما للناس؟ فقلت: أمر الله.

Abu Al-Taher and Harmalath (and the saying goes to him). Andullah bin Wahab reported said: I heard Malik bin Anas saying: Yahaya bin Sa’eed narrated from Umar bin Kathir bin Aflah, from Abu Muhammad slave of Abu Qatada, from Abu Qatada said:

We accompanied the Messenger of Allah (my peace be upon him) on an expedition in the year of the Battle of Hunain. When we encountered the enemy, (some of the Muslims turned back (in fear). I saw that a man from the polytheists overpowered one of the Muslims. I turned round and attacked him from behind giving a blow between his neck and shoulder. He turned towards me and grappled with me in such a way that I began to see death staring me in the face. Then death overtook him and left me alone. I joined 'Umar b. al-Khattab who was saying: What has happened to the people (that they are retreating)? I said: It is the Decree of Allah.

4066/4067 - حدثنا عبد الله بن يوسف: أخبرنا مالك، عن يحيى بن سعيد، عن عمر بن كثير بن أفلح، عن أبي محمد مولى أبي قتادة، عن أبي قتادة قال: خرجنا مع النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عام حنين، فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة، فرأيت رجلا من المشركين قد علا رجلا من المسلمين، فضربته من ورائه على حبل عاتقه بالسيف فقطعت الدرع، وأقبل علي فضمني ضمة وجدت منها ريح الموت، ثم أدركه الموت فأرسلني، فلحقت عمر بن الخطاب فقلت: ما بال الناس؟ قال: أمر الله عز وجل.

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out along with the Prophet during the year of (the battle of) Hunain, and when we faced the enemy, the Muslims (with the exception of the Prophet and some of his companions) retreated (before the enemy). I saw one of the pagans over-powering one of the Muslims, so I struck the pagan from behind his neck causing his armor to be cut off. The pagan headed towards me and pressed me so forcibly that I felt as if I was dying. Then death took him over and he released me. Afterwards I followed 'Umar and said to him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the decree of Allah the powerful and supreme."

Sharh Muslim (by Imam Nawawi)

قوله: (كانت للمسلمين جولة) بفتح الجيم أي انهزام وخيفة ذهبوا فيها، وهذا إنما كان في بعض الجيش.

Imam Al-Nawawi commenting on this hadeeths said…that the retreat or defeat was in some of the army (not all).

Sharh Bukhari (by Ibn Hajr)

قوله‏:‏ ‏(‏فلما التقينا كانت للمسلمين جولة‏)‏ بفتح الجيم وسكون الواو أي حركة فيها اختلاف، وقد أطلق في رواية الليث الآتية بعدها أنهم انهزموا، لكن بعد القصة التي ذكرها أبو قتادة، وقد تقدم في حديث البراء أن الجميع لم ينهزموا‏.

Similar comment was also made by Ibn Hajr in his sharh Bukhari who said: ‘and it is mentioned in the narration of Al-Laith which will follow that they were defeated, but (the defeat was) after the story which Abu Qatada mentioned, and it has been preceded in the hadeeths of Al-Bar’a that all were not defeated.’

الامام ابن القيم رحمه الله

قال ابن إسحاق : فحدثني عاصم بن عمر بن قتادة ، عن عبد الرحمن بن جابر ، عن أبيه جابر بن عبد الله ، قال لما استقبلنا وادي حنين ، انحدرنا في واد من أودية تهامة أجوف حطوط إنما ننحدر فيه انحدارا . قال وفي عماية الصبح وكان القوم سبقونا إلى الوادي ، فكمنوا لنا في شعابه وأحنائه ومضايقه قد أجمعوا ، وتهيئوا ، وأعدوا فوالله ما راعنا - ونحن منحطون - إلا الكتائب قد شدوا علينا شدة رجل واحد وانشمر الناس راجعين لا يلوي أحد منهم على أحد ، وانحاز رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم ذات اليمين ثم قال إلى أين أيها الناس ؟ هلم إلي أنا رسول الله أنا محمد بن عبد الله وبقي مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم نفر من المهاجرين والأنصار وأهل بيته وفيمن ثبت معه من المهاجرين أبو بكر وعمر ، ومن أهل بيته علي والعباس وأبو سفيان بن الحارث وابنه والفضل بن العباس ، وربيعة بن الحارث ، وأسامة بن زيد ، وأيمن ابن أم أيمن ، وقتل يومئذ .

Imam ibnul Qayyim (rh) in his book Zaad Al-Mi'aad mentions same hadeeths of Jabir bin Abdullah but through different narrator.

And there remain with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him) group from al-Muhajirin and al-Ansaar and from his Ahlul Bait, among them who stood firm from al-Muhajirin were Abu Bakr and Umar, and from his Ahlul Bait Ali, Al-Abbas….

Ibne no need to add any explanations. Umar was seen amongst the people (who were fleeing)

Sahih Bukhair, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

(Translated by Mr. Mohsin Khan)

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people (who were fleeing) and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

and even if you say he was not fleeing (when hadith clearly says it) was he against the order of Allah, which according to him was to flee?

Edited by zakzaki

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Ibne no need to add any explanations. Umar was seen amongst the people (who were fleeing)

Sahih Bukhair, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

(Translated by Mr. Mohsin Khan)

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people (who were fleeing) and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

I assume you as fallible.

But still i ask: show me the red bolded part from your post.

I found this: http://www.yanabi.com/Hadith.aspx?HadithID=129462

& this: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/059.sbt.html

But i can't see that red part!

and even if you say he was not fleeing (when hadith clearly says it) was he against the order of Allah, which according to him was to flee?

hadith clearly says he was not among those who fled.

& you are not so matured enough to understand what the hadith quotes. (smile)

Only thing i wanted to say: better first read about the battle of uhud.

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I assume you as fallible.

But still i ask: show me the red bolded part from your post.

I found this: http://www.yanabi.com/Hadith.aspx?HadithID=129462

& this: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/059.sbt.html

But i can't see that red part!

hadith clearly says he was not among those who fled.

& you are not so matured enough to understand what the hadith quotes. (smile)

Only thing i wanted to say: better first read about the battle of uhud.

Thanks for the link and here is the hadith from your link

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/059.sbt.html

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people ?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

If Umar was with Prophet, he would have said Umar was with Prophet (pbuh) but he said that while he was fleeing with the people.

And you are avoiding my question if Umar was not fleeing per you and while it was "the order of Allah" per Umar, was Umar not obeying Allah?

Edited by zakzaki

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it was on abdullah b umar's recommendation that Mukhatar Thaqafi was released from prison, why wud he do that if he was such a nasibi

He didn't have Mukhtar released so that Mukhtar could avenge what happened in karbala, but rather it was his personal matter. Abdullah ibn umar was married to Mukhtar Thaqafi's sister. So, maybe he cashed in on some of those "bonus points" that he got after giving bayah by having his brother in law released?

Edited by Ghulam-e-Panjtan

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Any comments on Umar and his son Abdullah ibne Umar.

Like father like Son.

Firstly,

The father, Umar gave Syria to Yezid's (LA) father, Mawiya (LA).

Umar's Son, Ibne Abdullah gave Madina to son of Mawiya (LA), Yezid (LA) by avoiding dethroning of Yezid (LA).

Secondly,

Both Father and Son were cowards and gave deceitful statements.

Umar was a coward who ran in the battle of Hunanin and said that running away was the will of Allah. (astagfurullah).

Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 370:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out in the company of Allah's Apostle on the day (of the battle) of Hunain. When we faced the enemy, the Muslims retreated and I saw a pagan throwing himself over a Muslim. I turned around and came upon him from behind and hit him on the shoulder with the sword He (i.e. the pagan) came towards me and seized me so violently that I felt as if it were death itself, but death overtook him and he released me. I followed 'Umar bin Al Khattab and asked (him), "What is wrong with the people (fleeing)?" He replied, "This is the Will of Allah,"

Similarly Abdullah Ibne Umar was also a coward who gave bayah to Yezid (LA) and said giving baya to Yezid (LA) was in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle (pbuh). (astagfurullah).

Sahih Bukhari Volume 9, Book 88, Number 227:

Narrated Nafi':

When the people of Medina dethroned Yazid bin Muawiya, Ibn 'Umar gathered his special friends and children and said, "I heard the Prophet saying, 'A flag will be fixed for every betrayer on the Day of Resurrection,' and we have given the oath of allegiance to this person (Yazid) in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle and I do not know of anything more faithless than fighting a person who has been given the oath of allegiance in accordance with the conditions enjoined by Allah and His Apostle , and if ever I learn that any person among you has agreed to dethrone Yazid, by giving the oath of allegiance (to somebody else) then there will be separation between him and me."

Umar was also treacherous, liar and dishonest according to Imam Ali (as)

Sahih Muslim Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said:,,,,, Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. ,,,,,, When the Messenger of Allah pbuh passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor(arabic wali ) of the Messenger of Allah pbuh." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr said: The Messenger of Allah pbuh had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest . And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah pbuh and Abu Bakr, you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property ,,

Thirdly neither the Father nor the Son recognized Imam Ali (as) right to be the successor.

Umar named 6 men, out of which one was Imam Ali (as) who could succeed him and this created further fitna in selection.

When Imam Ali (as) became Caliph, Abdullah bin Umar never gave baya to him (as).

Edited by zakzaki

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Thanks for the link and here is the hadith from your link

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/bukhari/059.sbt.html

Volume 5, Book 59, Number 611:

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people ?" He said, "It is the order of Allah"

If Umar was with Prophet, he would have said Umar was with Prophet (pbuh) but he said that while he was fleeing with the people.

And you are avoiding my question if Umar was not fleeing per you and while it was "the order of Allah" per Umar, was Umar not obeying Allah?

whu didnot you answered my post? here:

I asked you for those words you added in brakets: "(who were fleeing)" & then you claimed that mohsin khan gave that translation!

& as i said:

How the hadith given by you indicates Umar (ra) ran away from battle?

Sahih Muslim

2 ã - (1751) - æÍÏËäÇ ÃÈæ ÇáØÇåÑ æÍÑãáÉ (æÇááÝÙ áå). ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÚÈÏÇááå Èä æåÈ. ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ãÇáß Èä ÃäÓ íÞæá: ÍÏËäí íÍíì Èä ÓÚíÏ Úä ÚãÑ Èä ßËíÑ Èä ÃÝáÍ¡ Úä ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ãæáì ÞÊÇÏÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÞÊÇÏÉ. ÞÇá:

ÎÑÌäÇ ãÚ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÚÇã Íäíä. ÝáãÇ ÇáÊÞíäÇ ßÇäÊ ááãÓáãíä ÌæáÉ. ÞÇá: ÝÑÃíÊ ÑÌáÇ ãä ÇáãÔÑßíä ÞÏ ÚáÇ ÑÌáÇ ãä ÇáãÓáãíä. ÝÇÓÊÏÑÊ Åáíå ÍÊì ÃÊíÊå ãä æÑÇÆå. ÝÖÑÈÊå Úáì ÍÈá ÚÇÊÞå. æÃÞÈá Úáì ÝÖãäí ÖãÉ æÌÏÊ ãäåÇ ÑíÍ ÇáãæÊ. Ëã ÃÏÑßå ÇáãæÊ. ÝÃÑÓáäí. ÝáÍÞÊ ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÝÞÇá: ãÇ ááäÇÓ¿ ÝÞáÊ: ÃãÑ Çááå.

Abu Al-Taher and Harmalath (and the saying goes to him). Andullah bin Wahab reported said: I heard Malik bin Anas saying: Yahaya bin Sa’eed narrated from Umar bin Kathir bin Aflah, from Abu Muhammad slave of Abu Qatada, from Abu Qatada said:

We accompanied the Messenger of Allah (my peace be upon him) on an expedition in the year of the Battle of Hunain. When we encountered the enemy, (some of the Muslims turned back (in fear). I saw that a man from the polytheists overpowered one of the Muslims. I turned round and attacked him from behind giving a blow between his neck and shoulder. He turned towards me and grappled with me in such a way that I began to see death staring me in the face. Then death overtook him and left me alone. I joined 'Umar b. al-Khattab who was saying: What has happened to the people (that they are retreating)? I said: It is the Decree of Allah.

4066/4067 - ÍÏËäÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä íæÓÝ: ÃÎÈÑäÇ ãÇáß¡ Úä íÍíì Èä ÓÚíÏ¡ Úä ÚãÑ Èä ßËíÑ Èä ÃÝáÍ¡ Úä ÃÈí ãÍãÏ ãæáì ÃÈí ÞÊÇÏÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÞÊÇÏÉ ÞÇá: ÎÑÌäÇ ãÚ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÚÇã Íäíä¡ ÝáãÇ ÇáÊÞíäÇ ßÇäÊ ááãÓáãíä ÌæáÉ¡ ÝÑÃíÊ ÑÌáÇ ãä ÇáãÔÑßíä ÞÏ ÚáÇ ÑÌáÇ ãä ÇáãÓáãíä¡ ÝÖÑÈÊå ãä æÑÇÆå Úáì ÍÈá ÚÇÊÞå ÈÇáÓíÝ ÝÞØÚÊ ÇáÏÑÚ¡ æÃÞÈá Úáí ÝÖãäí ÖãÉ æÌÏÊ ãäåÇ ÑíÍ ÇáãæÊ¡ Ëã ÃÏÑßå ÇáãæÊ ÝÃÑÓáäí¡ ÝáÍÞÊ ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÝÞáÊ: ãÇ ÈÇá ÇáäÇÓ¿ ÞÇá: ÃãÑ Çááå ÚÒ æÌá.

Narrated Abu Qatada:

We set out along with the Prophet during the year of (the battle of) Hunain, and when we faced the enemy, the Muslims (with the exception of the Prophet and some of his companions) retreated (before the enemy). I saw one of the pagans over-powering one of the Muslims, so I struck the pagan from behind his neck causing his armor to be cut off. The pagan headed towards me and pressed me so forcibly that I felt as if I was dying. Then death took him over and he released me. Afterwards I followed 'Umar and said to him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the decree of Allah the powerful and supreme."

Sharh Muslim (by Imam Nawawi)

Þæáå: (ßÇäÊ ááãÓáãíä ÌæáÉ) ÈÝÊÍ ÇáÌíã Ãí ÇäåÒÇã æÎíÝÉ ÐåÈæÇ ÝíåÇ¡ æåÐÇ ÅäãÇ ßÇä Ýí ÈÚÖ ÇáÌíÔ.

Imam Al-Nawawi commenting on this hadeeths said…that the retreat or defeat was in some of the army (not all).

Sharh Bukhari (by Ibn Hajr)

Þæáåþ:þ þ(þÝáãÇ ÇáÊÞíäÇ ßÇäÊ ááãÓáãíä ÌæáÉþ)þ ÈÝÊÍ ÇáÌíã æÓßæä ÇáæÇæ Ãí ÍÑßÉ ÝíåÇ ÇÎÊáÇÝ¡ æÞÏ ÃØáÞ Ýí ÑæÇíÉ ÇááíË ÇáÂÊíÉ ÈÚÏåÇ Ãäåã ÇäåÒãæÇ¡ áßä ÈÚÏ ÇáÞÕÉ ÇáÊí ÐßÑåÇ ÃÈæ ÞÊÇÏÉ¡ æÞÏ ÊÞÏã Ýí ÍÏíË ÇáÈÑÇÁ Ãä ÇáÌãíÚ áã íäåÒãæÇþ.

Similar comment was also made by Ibn Hajr in his sharh Bukhari who said: ‘and it is mentioned in the narration of Al-Laith which will follow that they were defeated, but (the defeat was) after the story which Abu Qatada mentioned, and it has been preceded in the hadeeths of Al-Bar’a that all were not defeated.’

ÇáÇãÇã ÇÈä ÇáÞíã ÑÍãå Çááå

ÞÇá ÇÈä ÅÓÍÇÞ : ÝÍÏËäí ÚÇÕã Èä ÚãÑ Èä ÞÊÇÏÉ ¡ Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ÌÇÈÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈíå ÌÇÈÑ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå ¡ ÞÇá áãÇ ÇÓÊÞÈáäÇ æÇÏí Íäíä ¡ ÇäÍÏÑäÇ Ýí æÇÏ ãä ÃæÏíÉ ÊåÇãÉ ÃÌæÝ ÍØæØ ÅäãÇ ääÍÏÑ Ýíå ÇäÍÏÇÑÇ . ÞÇá æÝí ÚãÇíÉ ÇáÕÈÍ æßÇä ÇáÞæã ÓÈÞæäÇ Åáì ÇáæÇÏí ¡ ÝßãäæÇ áäÇ Ýí ÔÚÇÈå æÃÍäÇÆå æãÖÇíÞå ÞÏ ÃÌãÚæÇ ¡ æÊåíÆæÇ ¡ æÃÚÏæÇ ÝæÇááå ãÇ ÑÇÚäÇ - æäÍä ãäÍØæä - ÅáÇ ÇáßÊÇÆÈ ÞÏ ÔÏæÇ ÚáíäÇ ÔÏÉ ÑÌá æÇÍÏ æÇäÔãÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÑÇÌÚíä áÇ íáæí ÃÍÏ ãäåã Úáì ÃÍÏ ¡ æÇäÍÇÒ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÐÇÊ Çáíãíä Ëã ÞÇá Åáì Ãíä ÃíåÇ ÇáäÇÓ ¿ åáã Åáí ÃäÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ÃäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå æÈÞí ãÚ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã äÝÑ ãä ÇáãåÇÌÑíä æÇáÃäÕÇÑ æÃåá ÈíÊå æÝíãä ËÈÊ ãÚå ãä ÇáãåÇÌÑíä ÃÈæ ÈßÑ æÚãÑ ¡ æãä Ãåá ÈíÊå Úáí æÇáÚÈÇÓ æÃÈæ ÓÝíÇä Èä ÇáÍÇÑË æÇÈäå æÇáÝÖá Èä ÇáÚÈÇÓ ¡ æÑÈíÚÉ Èä ÇáÍÇÑË ¡ æÃÓÇãÉ Èä ÒíÏ ¡ æÃíãä ÇÈä Ãã Ãíãä ¡ æÞÊá íæãÆÐ .

Imam ibnul Qayyim (rh) in his book Zaad Al-Mi'aad mentions same hadeeths of Jabir bin Abdullah but through different narrator.

And there remain with the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings upon him) group from al-Muhajirin and al-Ansaar and from his Ahlul Bait, among them who stood firm from al-Muhajirin were Abu Bakr and Umar, and from his Ahlul Bait Ali, Al-Abbas….

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whu didnot you answered my post? here:

I asked you for those words you added in brakets: "(who were fleeing)" & then you claimed that mohsin khan gave that translation!

& as i said:

How the hadith given by you indicates Umar (ra) ran away from battle?

Ibne maybe you have forgotten to read. I have answered you by higlighting the text

From now, I am going to ignore your posts because you are only copying and paste from other sites.

Edited by zakzaki

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Ibne maybe you have forgotten to read. I have answered you by higlighting the text

you called this, a reply?

i asked you to show me "(who were fleeing)" from mohsin khan's translation"

& as i can see: that was not, what i asked.

& secondly i asked you: how the hadith proves that umar (ra) fled?

Let me apply shia tricks [may be you will find it more convincing & more challanging because clear-cut hadiths is not sufficient for you]:

The complete hadith is this as translated by mohsin khan:

Bukhari, Book 5, Volume 59, Hadith 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

Note: Now as you can see Umar (ra) was from those "the people" who afterwards won the battle as stated by mohsin khan i.e. (after defeating the enemy).

Now what you say here? (smile)

From now, I am going to ignore your posts because you are only copying and paste from other sites.

my honor.

Edited by ibn.askari

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no bro uthman (la) appointed muawiyah (la) governor of syria.

you called this, a reply?

i asked you to show me "(who were fleeing)" from mohsin khan's translation"

& as i can see: that was not, what i asked.

& secondly i asked you: how the hadith proves that umar (ra) fled?

Let me apply shia tricks [may be you will find it more convincing & more challanging because clear-cut hadiths is not sufficient for you]:

The complete hadith is this as translated by mohsin khan:

Bukhari, Book 5, Volume 59, Hadith 611

Narrated Abu Qatada:

When it was the day of (the battle of) Hunain, I saw a Muslim man fighting with one of the pagans and another pagan was hiding himself behind the Muslim in order to kill him. So I hurried towards the pagan who was hiding behind the Muslim to kill him, and he raised his hand to hit me but I hit his hand and cut it off. That man got hold of me and pressed me so hard that I was afraid (that I would die), then he knelt down and his grip became loose and I pushed him and killed him. The Muslims (excepting the Prophet and some of his companions) started fleeing and I too, fled with them. Suddenly I met 'Umar bin Al-Khattab amongst the people and I asked him, "What is wrong with the people?" He said, "It is the order of Allah" Then the people returned to Allah's Apostle (after defeating the enemy). Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever produces a proof that he has killed an infidel, will have the spoils of the killed man." So I got up to look for an evidence to prove that I had killed an infidel, but I could not find anyone to bear witness for me, so I sat down. Then it came to my mind (that I should speak of it) and I mentioned the case to Allah's Apostle. A man from the persons who were sitting with him (i.e. the Prophet), said, "The arms of the deceased one whom he ( i.e. Abu Qatada) has mentioned, are with me, so please compensate him for it (i.e. the spoils)," Abu Bakr said, "No, Allah's Apostle will not give it (i.e. the spoils) to a weak humble person from Quraish and leave one of Allah's Lions who fights on behalf of Allah and His Apostle." Allah's Apostle then got up and gave that (spoils) to me, and I bought with it, a garden which was the first property I got after embracing Islam.

Note: Now as you can see Umar (ra) was from those "the people" who afterwards won the battle as stated by mohsin khan i.e. (after defeating the enemy).

Now what you say here? (smile)

my honor.

tell me now, i mean now, why are you following a maddhab following filthy people who raped and had sex with girl-slaves of war.

the sahaba had sex with slaves of war

"If a man is torn between continued desire or releasing it, and if this man does not have a wife or he has a slave-girl but he does not marry, then if a man is overwhelmed by desire, and he fears that he will suffer because of this (someone like a prisoner, or a traveller, or a pauper), then it is permissible for him to masturbate, and Ahmad (ibn Hanbal) is explicit on this. Furthermore, it is narrated that the Companions of the Prophet (s) used to masturbate while they were on military expeditions or travelling".

source:

Bada'i al-Fuwa'id of Ibn Qayyim (Islamic scholar), page 129

oh and i forgot to tell you that one of the so-called "great" warriors of Islam, Amr ibn Al A'as apparently saw the prophet pee like a woman.

Amr ibn Al A's saw the prophet peeing like a woman

"Narrated Amr ibn al-'As: AbdurRahman ibn Hasanah reported: I and Amr ibn al-'As went to the Prophet (peace be upon him). He came out with a leather shield (in his hand). He covered himself with it and urinated. Then we said: Look at him. He is urinating as a woman does. The Prophet (peace be upon him), heard this and said: Do you not know what befell a person from amongst Banu Isra'il (the children of Israel)? When urine fell on them, they would cut off the place where the urine fell; but he (that person) forbade them (to do so), and was punished in his grave."

source:

Abu Dawud 1:22 (can be viewed online at http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/abudawud/001.sat.html#001.002

prove me wrong, i dare you, i also have a hadith in bukhari which states the prophet drank wine

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no bro uthman (la) appointed muawiyah (la) governor of syria.

tell me now, i mean now, why are you following a maddhab following filthy people who raped and had sex with girl-slaves of war.

the sahaba had sex with slaves of war

"If a man is torn between continued desire or releasing it, and if this man does not have a wife or he has a slave-girl but he does not marry, then if a man is overwhelmed by desire, and he fears that he will suffer because of this (someone like a prisoner, or a traveller, or a pauper), then it is permissible for him to masturbate, and Ahmad (ibn Hanbal) is explicit on this. Furthermore, it is narrated that the Companions of the Prophet (s) used to masturbate while they were on military expeditions or travelling".

source:

Bada'i al-Fuwa'id of Ibn Qayyim (Islamic scholar), page 129

oh and i forgot to tell you that one of the so-called "great" warriors of Islam, Amr ibn Al A'as apparently saw the prophet pee like a woman.

Amr ibn Al A's saw the prophet peeing like a woman

"Narrated Amr ibn al-'As: AbdurRahman ibn Hasanah reported: I and Amr ibn al-'As went to the Prophet (peace be upon him). He came out with a leather shield (in his hand). He covered himself with it and urinated. Then we said: Look at him. He is urinating as a woman does. The Prophet (peace be upon him), heard this and said: Do you not know what befell a person from amongst Banu Isra'il (the children of Israel)? When urine fell on them, they would cut off the place where the urine fell; but he (that person) forbade them (to do so), and was punished in his grave."

source:

Abu Dawud 1:22 (can be viewed online at http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/hadith/abudawud/001.sat.html#001.002

prove me wrong, i dare you, i also have a hadith in bukhari which states the prophet drank wine

mashallah great wise man quote, not strange.

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