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In the Name of God بسم الله

Can Women Be Ulema, Mawlana, Sheikh-ette?

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MyHeartYaZahraa

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Asalaamu Aleykum,

My question comes about because I am personally saddened there is not more female scholars rising to give lectures on both Islam and Women's issues. I know that brothers who finish madrasa can wear that "imame" or whatever you call it on their head and then lecture and are given great respect for it.

1. Can women also wear this and receive the same title and respect?

2. Can women be Ulema? Can they study Islam and give rulings like men do?

I know Im being controversial, people seem to be okay with just men running things and don't question it.

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well everyone is encouraged to learn about Islam, but a women can't be a judge, can't lead prayer, and can't make rulings.. but she can be an Islamic lecturer, and etc.. I personally think it's better in a way.. am all for women rights, but as one.. I know hormones affect us SO MUCH! like not only in being emotional etc, but sometimes more..

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Asalaamu Aleykum,

My question comes about because I am personally saddened there is not more female scholars rising to give lectures on both Islam and Women's issues. I know that brothers who finish madrasa can wear that "imame" or whatever you call it on their head and then lecture and are given great respect for it.

1. Can women also wear this and receive the same title and respect?

2. Can women be Ulema? Can they study Islam and give rulings like men do?

I know Im being controversial, people seem to be okay with just men running things and don't question it.

It's Strongly makrooh. See post 66 and 70.

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(salam)

I don't mean to be rude Zareen, and forgive me if I did.. However, It would be better to post main quotes from the topics you give, and then post the actual topic.

I will be honest, I cannot be bothered to open a new page, reading about it, and it's like 20 pages, and only like 3 or 4 posts is benifical. You get my drift?

Sorry if I seemed rude.

Eltemase Doa.

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(salam)

(salam)

I don't mean to be rude Zareen, and forgive me if I did.. However, It would be better to post main quotes from the topics you give, and then post the actual topic.

I will be honest, I cannot be bothered to open a new page, reading about it, and it's like 20 pages, and only like 3 or 4 posts is benifical. You get my drift?

Sorry if I seemed rude.

Eltemase Doa.

I am not here to do your homework...I don't mean to be rude here :)

The search on this site is not working. All I am doing is trying to retrieve old topics because I do remember a number of discussions we had previously.

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As per ahadith(bihar, mustadrak al wasail) it's recommended that women always stay in the innermost corner of their home and also not to come in front of even blind men since they can smell them.

2j41oj4.png

It's also recommended in ahadith (Al-faqih, khisal, hilya etc) that among other things, women shouldn't sit in the upper portion of their homes and shouldn't be taught how to write, instead they should be taught sewing/spinning and surah al Nur should be recited to them and they shouldn't be allowed to read surah al-Yusuf.

حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي العسكري قال: حدثنا أبوعبد الله محمد بن زكريا البصري قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد بن عمارة، عن أبيه عن جابر بن يزيد الجعفي قال: سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر عليهما السلام يقول

ولا يجوز لهن نزول الغرف، ولا تعلم الكتابة، ويستحب لهن تعلم المغزل، وسورة النور، ويكره لهن تعلم سورة يوسف

So therefore, they should not become scholars because women are not supposed to learn how to write in the first place.

I had originally posted it here.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya
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Asalaamu Aleykum,

My question comes about because I am personally saddened there is not more female scholars rising to give lectures on both Islam and Women's issues. I know that brothers who finish madrasa can wear that "imame" or whatever you call it on their head and then lecture and are given great respect for it.

1. Can women also wear this and receive the same title and respect?

2. Can women be Ulema? Can they study Islam and give rulings like men do?

I know Im being controversial, people seem to be okay with just men running things and don't question it.

salam.gif

You don't have to wear the 3amama to be a sheikh or sayyed or whatever, that's first. Respect doesn't come because of the clothing worn, it is commanded by the knowledge and piety of the person in question.

Second, women can receive the same level of respect and more by reaching the level of ijtihad. There is no problem in that, although very few women have done so compared to the number of men. This is not an Islamic restriction, simply an issue of circumstance, culture, and other factors in history.

The issue is not with whether these mujtahid women can study Islam, reach such levels, or "follow" (qallid, from taqleed) themselves, but whether or not others can follow them. Some scholars say it is not allowed, some say only women can follow these women, and some debate that it may be permissible for all to follow them (if they are the most knowledgeable, of course).

And Allah knows best.

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As per ahadith(bihar, mustadrak al wasail) it's recommended that women always stay in the innermost corner of their home and also not to come in front of even blind men since they can smell them.

2j41oj4.png

It's also recommended in ahadith (Al-faqih, khisal, hilya etc) that among other things, women shouldn't sit in the upper portion of their homes and shouldn't be taught how to write, instead they should be taught sewing/spinning and surah al Nur should be recited to them and they shouldn't be allowed to read surah al-Yusuf.

حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي العسكري قال: حدثنا أبوعبد الله محمد بن زكريا البصري قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد بن عمارة، عن أبيه عن جابر بن يزيد الجعفي قال: سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر عليهما السلام يقول

ولا يجوز لهن نزول الغرف، ولا تعلم الكتابة، ويستحب لهن تعلم المغزل، وسورة النور، ويكره لهن تعلم سورة يوسف

So therefore, they should not become scholars because women are not supposed to learn how to write in the first place.

I had originally posted it here.

God, and people like you still exist?

You think ma'soomeen would do anything makrooh? Astaghfirallah, so Sayyedah Fatima (as) did wrong by writing, by having surat Yusef memorized, by giving speeches in the mosque? So it was wrong to stress the importance of learning for ALL Muslims, male or female? So hijab is pointless, since even a woman without zeena, perfume, or makeup, wearing say an abaya over the head, would still be doing wrong? If women were created not to speak, read, write, learn, teach, or go out, what was the point of hijab? Astaghfirallah I must say again - what do you have against women that they are "not supposed to learn how to write in the first place"? What aversion to them, their inherent filth you profess they have, is it that makes you so?

We are equal before God - read the Quran and you'll realize this. Why are women in Iran more powerful than women in other parts of the world? Why do women in Iran join the police force and - wait for it - learn in schools (God forbid)?!

Go back to where you came from. Not madrasat Ahl al-Bayt (as), I'm sure.

Edited by zeinabiyya
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Asalaamu Aleykum,

My question comes about because I am personally saddened there is not more female scholars rising to give lectures on both Islam and Women's issues. I know that brothers who finish madrasa can wear that "imame" or whatever you call it on their head and then lecture and are given great respect for it.

1. Can women also wear this and receive the same title and respect?

2. Can women be Ulema? Can they study Islam and give rulings like men do?

I know Im being controversial, people seem to be okay with just men running things and don't question it.

This is really a no-brainer question once blind adherance to dogma is put aside and reason is used instead. Being a scholar or leader requires a certain set of skills to a certain level of expertise. If a woman has the natural brainpower and interest and motivation, and follows through by putting in the required hours to study, and can demonstrate the required level of competence on whatever standard assessments are used in general, then why not?

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Of course women should be educated and even become a scholar. If it wasn't for the voices of Hazrat Zainab, Ruqqaya and Sakineh, the epic sacrifice of Karbala would have stayed in Karbala. The voices of these angelic women helped keep our holy religion alive. ws

Edited to say, not angelic in sound but angel-like ladies who were free of sins that ordinary women commit. It is education that teaches all people, not just men, to become more pious and more positive in their thoughts, words and deeds.

Edited by Hameedeh
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God, and people like you still exist?

You think ma'soomeen would do anything makrooh? Astaghfirallah, so Sayyedah Fatima (as) did wrong by writing, by having surat Yusef memorized, by giving speeches in the mosque? So it was wrong to stress the importance of learning for ALL Muslims, male or female? So hijab is pointless, since even a woman without zeena, perfume, or makeup, wearing say an abaya over the head, would still be doing wrong? If women were created not to speak, read, write, learn, teach, or go out, what was the point of hijab? Astaghfirallah I must say again - what do you have against women that they are "not supposed to learn how to write in the first place"? What aversion to them, their inherent filth you profess they have, is it that makes you so?

We are equal before God - read the Quran and you'll realize this. Why are women in Iran more powerful than women in other parts of the world? Why do women in Iran join the police force and - wait for it - learn in schools (God forbid)?!

Go back to where you came from. Not madrasat Ahl al-Bayt (as), I'm sure.

Ma'am, I sincerely apologize for offending you.

As for your questions, I had posted ahadith from Imams(AS) so either the Imams(AS) can answer your questions or the authors of our well known shi'ite books(who included these ahadith in their books) or perhaps the narrators who narrated these ahadith. They are the ones you should address your questions to. As they say, don't shoot the messenger/postman. So, I'm not the best person to answer your questions. I just posted what's their in our(shia) books in terms of ahadith.

Still, I'll try to briefly answer your questions through ahadith. As for Bibi Fatima(AS), AFAIK there's no hadith which indicates she wrote anything or learned to write. In fact, even the mushaf of Fatima(AS) was written by Imam Ali(AS). From usul al kafi, Al-Hujjat:

28m1f05.png

Secondly, AFAIK there's no hadith which mentions Bibi Fatima(AS) used to recite Surah al Yusuf so it doesn't contradict with the previously posted ahadith. As far as the issue of giving speech in mosque is concerned, She(AS) came in surrounded by other women and spoke from behind a curtain. Ihtijaj al Tabarsi:

332xhyh.png

As for the ahadith which encourage seeking knowledge, there are further ahadith(some of which I posted in my last post) which qualify them. That is they point out the details, conditions etc and therefore there's no contradiction. So through ahadith(posted earlier) it's clear that it's recommended for women not to learn how to write and recite Surah al Yusuf. Instead they should learn sewing/knitting/spinning(household chores). As for hijab, although it's recommended(not wajib) that women not sit in the upper portions of their homes and always stay in the innermost corner of their home, if it's necessary to come out then they should observe hijab. When the come out they should not walk in the middle of the road but instead on the sides. Al-khisal:

حدثنا أحمد بن الحسن القطان قال: حدثنا الحسن بن علي العسكري قال: حدثنا أبوعبد الله محمد بن زكريا البصري قال: حدثنا جعفر بن محمد بن عمارة، عن أبيه عن جابر بن يزيد الجعفي قال: سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر عليهما السلام يقول

وليس للنساء من سروات الطريق شيء ولهن جنبتاه

Lastly, it's totally irrelevant what's going on in Iran. AFAIK there's no hadith telling us to ape Iran.

There are further ahadith about women. It's narrated from Bibi Fatima(AS)(refer to Bihar, Manaqib ibn Sahr ashoob, ihqaq ul haq etc) that it's best for a woman that men(non mahram) never see her and she never see a man(non mahram).

2mdpiti.png

Imam Ali(AS) also advised his son(s)(refer to nahjul balagha) to keep his women in their homes and its best that they stay inside so much that they can not even recognize any non mahram men.

Once again ma'am, I'm sorry if I offended you. I respect all women and what I posted is for their own benefit since the hadith of our Imams(AS) are beneficial.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya
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I believe Allah (swt) wants women to be in a certain area, and men in a certain area, not all in the same area. Men are generally more fit to lead. It's not a matter of sexism, it's how Allah (swt) made it. That's why there is no such thing as a prophetess, and all the Imams are male. We do not take laws from Fatimat Az-Zahra (as), even though she is the purest women and much more pious and knowing than our own scholars today. Not to say women can't lead, no. It's more into the territory of religious and political matters.Take Sayyida Khadijah (as) as an example. Look how much virtue and dignity she has: She's one of the 4 greatest women, she was the first wife of our Holy Prophet (pbuh) in which he never married another women before her death, she was a very successful business women, she is infamous in Pre-Islamic and Islamic era, Quraysh respected her (back then, a women was treaty horribly and treated worse than slaves and animals, so a women getting respect from men is quite an achievement).

Edited by Jay
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(salam)

Bhooka_Bhairiya, You should not quote a book like Bihar al-Anwar to try to answer an issue, especially one as sensitive as this, without also mentioning whether the ahadeeth you quote from it are saheeh/qawwee, because of the numerous weak ahadeeth found in it. Same with Wasaa'il and the mustadrak. (Also quoting fairly-lengthy pieces of Arabic text as your explanation or evidence is quite unhelpful because the majority here are not English speaking; a translation would be nice if you could manage it and have the time).

Peace.

Edited by Perseverance
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(salam)

Bhooka_Bhairiya, You should not quote a book like Bihar al-Anwar to try to answer an issue, especially one as sensitive as this, without also mentioning whether the ahadeeth you quote from it are saheeh/qawwee, because of the numerous weak ahadeeth found in it. Same with Wasaa'il and the mustadrak. (Also quoting fairly-lengthy pieces of Arabic text as your explanation or evidence is quite unhelpful because the majority here are not English speaking; a translation would be nice if you could manage it and have the time).

Peace.

(wasalam)

I agree that ahadith from bihar or mustadrak alone are not definite proof(although I wouldn't say the same about wasail ul shia) but here I'd quoted them because I was focusing on Bibi Fatima(AS)'s sayings regarding the roles/duties of women. Anyhow, pretty much the same instructions(in fact in more details) can be found in nahjul balagha from Imam Ali(AS). I've mentioned it here and here.

As far as the rest of the ahadith which I quoted are concerned, as I mentioned in the posts itself they're found in our primary sources such as Man la yahdhuruhul Faqih. As regards to their being sahih or not, the thing is that although I do find ilm rijal very useful while dealing with conflicting/contradictory ahadith or while dealing with sadh(rare/odd) ahadith but I do not like to use ilm rijal as a loop hole finding tool. So in this case the ahadith are present in our primary sources and do not conflict with any other ahadith(I've explained this here) therefore there's no problem in accepting them. Brother Macisaac has also given a good explanation as well as provided links in English here.

Lastly, as regards to the translation issue, unfortunately this is something which is very hard for me since I'm not an expert at English or Arabic therefore I try to provide a brief/summarised translation but a word to word translation is hard to do. Also, with long texts it's very time consuming. For now you may refer to the links provided by Macisaac(I've included a link to that thread) and I'm sure there are some sites which would have the translation of Nahjul balagha.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya
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(salam)

This fatwa were posted a while ago. It is not necessary for women to lock herself up in her house. She can go out, alhamdulillah

(bismillah) (salam)

Arabic from Minhajul Saliheen of Sayed Sistani.

<span style='font-size:19pt;line-height:100%'>مسألة 340: لا يستحق الزوج على الزوجة خدمة البيت وحوائجه التي لا تتعلق بالاِستمتاع من الكنس أو الخياطة أو الطبخ أو تنظيف الملابس أو غير ذلك حتى سقي الماء وتمهيد الفراش وإن كان يستحب لها ان تقوم بذلك

</span>

The husband does not have a right to the rendering of household services by the wife or any other need that is not associated with 'istimta3' such as sweeping, sewing, cooking, washing or the likes, not even giving water, or preparing the bed, albeit mustahab.

Sayed Khomeini - Tahrir Al-Waseela

<span style='font-size:19pt;line-height:100%'>

القول فى النشوز

و هو فى الزوجة خروجها عن طاعة الزوج الواجبة عليها من عدم تمكين نفسها و عدم إزالة المنفرات المضادة للتمتع و الالتذاذ بها ، بل و ترك التنظيف و التزيين مع اقتضاء الزوج لها ، و كذا خروجها من بيته من دون إذنه و غير ذلك ، و لا يتحقق النشوز بترك طاعته فيما ليست بواجبة عليها ، فلو امتنعت من خدمات البيت و حوائجه التى لا تتعلق بالاستمتاع من الكنس أو الخياطة أو الطبخ أو غير ذلك حتى سقى الماء و تمهيد الفراش لم يتحقق النشوز </span>

"......And Nushooz is not realized in her abandoning that which is not obligatory upon her. If she refused to render any household duties, not associated with 'istimta3', such as sweeping, sewing, cooking or the likes, even giiving water or preparing the bed, nushooz will not be established"

(bismillah)

(salam)

I will try to get the Arabic text in soon inshallah.

Sayed Seestani 14/07/1999

11. QUESTION: My wife continually provokes me and the circumstances call for to beat her, and the reasons are extreme, like continually disobeying me even in the most menial matter. And I am justified in my actions. Therefore, what is needed of me to clear my conscience?

ANSWER: It is not obligatory for her to obey you except in matters related to sexual intercourse or leaving the house without permission and you do not have the right to beat her except where those matters are concerned and only after exhortation and abandonment have failed. And if you beat her to an extent to which blood money becomes a requisite on you, then this blood money is obligatory on you regardless of whether the beating was permissible or not.

SAYED ABU QASIM AL-KHOEI

1. QUESTION: What is the limit of obedience of the wife to her husband, after she has fulfilled totally her (sexual) marital duties. For example, if he says to her: I do not approve of you leaving to so and so's place, this considering that it in no way has an effect on his sexual right is it obligatory upon her to obey him?

ANSWER: What is obligatory on her is only that which is concerned with (sexual intercourse). She does not leave if it conflicts with his sexual desire. Otherwise, leaving the house, when there is no conflict, is with obligatory precaution. [Abbie's insert: for muqallidat of Ayatullah Khu'i, the one who is unable to remain with obligatory precaution, she might be able to follow the ruling of an `alim who permits leaving the house; check the rulings of Ayatullah Khu'i on precaution in this regard.]

WaSalaam, Hajar

This post has been edited by Hajar: Jan 9 2005, 12:02 PM

Sayyid Shirazi (ra), said the following:

1.QUESTION: A man commands his not leave the house, preventing in that, connection with close kin (silat-raham). Is his order invalid in light of the fact that there is no obedience for the created in disobedience of the creator?

ANSWER: Yes his orders are invalid, insomuch as ties with close of kin is concerned.

3.QUESTION: My wife leaves the house without my permission, and of the rights of the husband over the wife is that she not leave the house except with his permission, therefore, what is the ruling regarding my wife's leaving the house?

ANSWER: If her leaving the house is only insomuch as friendly/gracious associations, then there is no harm.

WaSalaam, Hajar

This post has been edited by Hajar: Jan 9 2005, 09:22 PM

faithmuslima, 13 January 2005, 12:09 PM

Sayyed Ali Khamenei (HA):

Bismihi Ta`ala

Those works which are not waajib upon wife do not become waajib on her husband's request even if he gets angry.

With prayers for your success,

wassalam.

----- Original Message -----

Salam Alaykum,

Although housework is only recommended for a wife, does it become wajib if the husband asks her to fulfill this action? What if her denying his request results in his frustration?

Jazakumullah,

Wassalam.

(bismillah)

(salam)

I have "Islamic Laws," which is the English version of "Taudih al Masa'il" according to the fatawa of Ayatullah al Udama as-Sayyid `Ali al Hussayni as-Sistani, published by Ansarian Publications in 2000 of 529 pages. In the chapter on Marriage, the section of Rules Regarding Permanent Marriage, ruling number 2423, on page 44, it states, "Man has no right to compel his wife to render household services."

1) What does it say in the Arabic version, and what is the copyright and publication information (as above, for example) for the text? Script is much more preferable to transliteration (representing the pronunciation of the text with English letters).

2) Has anyone got any commentary for this ruling from one of the mujtahidin working in the offices of Ayatullah as-Sistani, or perhaps from an `alim heading up a masjid?

3) Has Imam Khumayni, Ayatullah Khameini, or Ayatullah Fadlullah ruled on this?

Barakallahu fikum

This post has been edited by abaleada: Sep 7 2004, 01:26 PM

(bismillah) (salam)

Arabic from Minhajul Saliheen of Sayed Sistani.

The husband does not have a right to the rendering of household services by the wife or any other need that is not associated with 'istimta3' such as sweeping, sewing, cooking, washing or the likes, not even giving water, or preparing the bed, albeit mustahab.

Sayed Khomeini - Tahrir Al-Waseela

"......And Nushooz is not realized in her abandoning that which is not obligatory upon her. If she refused to render any household duties, not associated with 'istimta3', such as sweeping, sewing, cooking or the likes, even giving water or preparing the bed, nushooz will not be established"

This post has been edited by wilayah: Sep 7 2004, 04:30 PM

From: "istiftaa" <istiftaa@wilayah.org>

To: "aba" <abaleada@yahoo.com>

Subject: 22319e

Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 14:42:46 +0330

Salamun `alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.

The answer is as follows:

Bismihi Ta`ala

The husband has the duty of providing his wife with maintenance suitable for her station as per common view and he has no right to order her doing household chores. On the other hand*, it is not a shar`i duty of the wife to perform household chores, but her doing them voluntarily and with agreement is not a problem.

With prayers for your success,

wassalam.

----- Original Message -----

From: "aba"

To: "Tabitha

Sent: Sunday, December 26, 2004 12:31 AM

Subject: women and household chores

bismillahi rahmani rahim

Allahumma salli `ala Muhammad wa aali Muhammad

assalamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh

Some confusion has arisen among us regarding the nature of household chores.

There is no doubt among us that it is mustahhab for a woman to perform household chores, or that it is proper for the husband and the wife to divide the household chores among themselves. However, there still remains some disagreement among us that does indeed have an impact on how some of us treat our wives and our families.

...

* [Abbie's Note: In my view, the use of this transitional phrase is the result of the kind of confusion that can result in the ESL speaker when he is unfamiliar with the most appropriate use of each transitional phrase available to the writer.]

(bismillah) (salam)

SAYED SEESTANI

Q: Is the wife, in a temporary marriage obligated like in permanent marriage, to obey her husband in matters such as leaving the house without his permission, or not wearing hijab and the like.

A: it is not obligatory for her to obey her husband in not leaving the house unless her leaving impedes on his rights. As for wearing hijab, it not obligatory for her to obey him even in a permanent marriage.

----------------------

SAYED SHIRAZI

Q. My wife goes out without my permission, and from the rights of a man over his wife is that she does not leave the house without his permission, what is the ruling (hukm) regarding my wife's going out.

A. If she is only going out for social relationships which are good (anything that is not contrary to Allah's teachings) then there is no harm

--------------

SAYED FADLALLAH

Q. Is it permissible for a woman to leave her husband's house without his permission. And is it compulsory for a woman to obey her husband and not leave even if it doesn’t stand in the way of his rights according to the Islamic Law (Sharia)?

A. It is not permissible for her to leave his house if it is standing in the way of his right in attaining his full sexual pleasure, other than that it is permissible for her, although from a precautionary recommendation it is better for her not to.

If his full rights and needs are being observed then she does not have to comply, although the precautionary recommendation is that she does obey. But in general, the faithful husband should not resort to such behaviour with his wife because it is contradictory to a cordial relationship

------------------

Does a wife need to follow her husband always?

(salam)

The words duty and responsibility mean that something is required. Women are not required to obey their husbands, but in two areas. Anything else is mustahab and they will receive blessings for it, but it is not a duty or responsibility.

We are not the ones making Islamic marriage like non Muslim marriages. You are unknowingly doing that. The Christian Bible says that a woman's will is the will of her father, then after she is married her husband's. Meaning that she has no right of self determination, but has to be strictly obedient to her husband's every whim. This is not Islam.

It is best not to try and interpret hadiths for ourselves. Our Scholar are aware of the hadiths and base their rulings on the Quran and Hadiths. Yet they say that husband's can not compel their wives to do household services. This means that matters related to runing the home are not a duty of women. If it were a duty or responsibility on women to do these things, then the husband would have recourse to ensure that she does it.

Sayyid Seestani:

If a women choses to do these things, then she gets blessings for it. It is like giving charity, she is doing more than she is required to do, and therefore will be rewarded by Allah (swt).

What we were discussing was not the mustahab, but the wajib duties of women. The two duties, required of a wife, are clearly established.

It is also clearly established, that should the wife be forced to earn her own living, she is not required to obey the husband, even in these two areas. Therefore, it is because the husband supports her, that she is required to obey him in these areas.

As for this aya:

We can see that this says men are obligated to maintain women, because of the superior strength they are given. The women in turn, are obligated to obey them in the two areas, where obedience is obligatory, because of this maintainence. If women refuse to obey in these areas, then punishment can be inflicted upon them. Nothing in this aya says that women have to be obedient in all things. This aya does not go into detail about what areas the women have to obey in. That is where we turn to our Scholars. They say it is in two things.

WaSalaam, Hajar

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(salam)

This fatwa were posted a while ago. It is not necessary for women to lock herself up in her house. She can go out, alhamdulillah

Does a wife need to follow her husband always?

Fatwa=Opinion

Yes, as per personal opinion of the people you quoted. People will hear what they want to hear.

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(salam)

So is yours. I rather take the word of a marji over yours any day.

Yes, my opinion is not binding. Forget about maraji, you may prefer your own opinion over mine and there's obviously nothing wrong with that.

But............................I quoted ahadith, and with all due respect, no amount of memorising asfar, lum'a, sharh lum'a, urwatul wuthqa, sarf and nahw rules, irfan lectures etc etc gives anyone the authority to discard ahadith into the bin. This trait is more suited to the darse nizami taught, Molvi Fazils from Hanafi darul ulooms. We don't do qiyas, istihsan etc like them.

Edited by Bhooka_Bhairiya
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I believe Allah (swt) wants women to be in a certain area, and men in a certain area, not all in the same area. Men are generally more fit to lead. It's not a matter of sexism, it's how Allah (swt) made it. That's why there is no such thing as a prophetess, and all the Imams are male. We do not take laws from Fatimat Az-Zahra (as), even though she is the purest women and much more pious and knowing than our own scholars today. Not to say women can't lead, no. It's more into the territory of religious and political matters.Take Sayyida Khadijah (as) as an example. Look how much virtue and dignity she has: She's one of the 4 greatest women, she was the first wife of our Holy Prophet (pbuh) in which he never married another women before her death, she was a very successful business women, she is infamous in Pre-Islamic and Islamic era, Quraysh respected her (back then, a women was treaty horribly and treated worse than slaves and animals, so a women getting respect from men is quite an achievement).

We need to be extremely cautious taking literal guidance on social roles from the social roles of the 7th - 9th century Middle East. If we want to take guidance, the safest message we can confidently take today in the 21 st century from the early texts is the direction of movement of the reforms of Islam. That is, toward increased respect and importance of women in society, so long as dignity of the woman is preserved. There were a lot of historical factors keeping women from prominent public and leadership roles in that day that are no longer relevant in many places.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

A famous woman mujtahid who has passed away is Hajieh Sayyideh Nosrat Begom Amin, simply known as Banu Amin:

There are many female Ayatollah as well. Here is one, Mrs. Zohreh Sefati: http://shiascholars.ning.com/photo/madam-zohreh-sefati

There are 30,000 women right now at Hawza in Qom. See message #22 here:

Obviously education is very important to women and they are willing to study hard. ws

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Yes, my opinion is not binding. Forget about maraji, you may prefer your own opinion over mine and there's obviously nothing wrong with that.

But............................I quoted ahadith, and with all due respect, no amount of memorising asfar, lum'a, sharh lum'a, urwatul wuthqa, sarf and nahw rules, irfan lectures etc etc gives anyone the authority to discard ahadith into the bin. This trait is more suited to the darse nizami taught, Molvi Fazils from Hanafi darul ulooms. We don't do qiyas, istihsan etc like them.

Ahadith aren't like the Quran, my dear. Just because you happened to quote ahadith does not mean you might not have taken them out of context, or left out how weak they are, or did not even consider ulama's opinions on this. Actually, ahadith can be "discarded in the bin" by those who know enough, who have studied and know that they are baseless.

Islam isn't about "opinion", it's about following your marja3 my dear because they are the most knowledgeable. Tell me you've studied in a hawza for twenty years and then come back with your "ahadith" to contest those of ulama.

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As far as the rest of the ahadith which I quoted are concerned, as I mentioned in the posts itself they're found in our primary sources such as Man la yahdhuruhul Faqih. As regards to their being sahih or not, the thing is that although I do find ilm rijal very useful while dealing with conflicting/contradictory ahadith or while dealing with sadh(rare/odd) ahadith but I do not like to use ilm rijal as a loop hole finding tool. So in this case the ahadith are present in our primary sources and do not conflict with any other ahadith(I've explained this here) therefore there's no problem in accepting them. Brother Macisaac has also given a good explanation as well as provided links in English here.

I don't think you got the point I was making, brother. I'm not implying that rijaal is necessary all the time. I'm just saying you should state whether the ahadeeth you have quoted from Bihar al-Anwar, etc. in this topic are saheeh or not. Why? Because such books are _filled_ with weak ahadeeth. Therefore, on such a _sensitive_ topic, you should be stating whether these ahadeeth are authentic or not.

Peace.

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(salam)

Does anybody know what the `ulama have said regarding this sermon:

O' ye peoples! Women are deficient in Faith, deficient in shares and deficient in intelligence. As regards the deficiency in their Faith, it is their abstention from prayers and fasting during their menstrual period. As regards deficiency in their intelligence it is because the evidence of two women is equal to that of one man. As for the deficiency of their shares that is because of their share in inheritance being half of men. So beware of the evils of women. Be on your guard even from those of them who are (reportedly) good. Do not obey them even in good things so that they may not attract you to evils.

(Nahjul Balagha, sermon 79/80)

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/79.htm

Wassalam

Edited by 14infallibles
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(bismillah)

(salam)

^ InshaAllah you will receive you answer from someone more knowledgeable than me. Please remember that the holy person AS who said "beware of the evils of women" was not speaking about his own lovely wife and daughter AS, but a certain kind of women who had grown up in houses full of hatred and jealousy for the Holy Ahle Bayt AS.

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Bismillah

Before this thread turns into a 20 page topic , allow me to say something...

Putting aside Hadith and the Ulemaa for a moment .... Look at western politics , they have women working inside their government. Look at someone like Hilary Clinton, is she deficient in intelligence? No. Has she got what it takes to be President? Of course.

Do you really think having pious muslim ulema women who practice piety and observes hijab will create corruption within society? I don't think so....

Because in the west, there are women who teach a whole group of guys in class and there's generally no problem ...

The day I see a Lady Aalim , is the day I'll say women in Islam have finally, truly been given LIBERTY that they deserved.

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Bismillah

Before this thread turns into a 20 page topic , allow me to say something...

Putting aside Hadith and the Ulemaa for a moment .... Look at western politics , they have women working inside their government. Look at someone like Hilary Clinton, is she deficient in intelligence? No. Has she got what it takes to be President? Of course.

Do you really think having pious muslim ulema women who practice piety and observes hijab will create corruption within society? I don't think so....

Because in the west, there are women who teach a whole group of guys in class and there's generally no problem ...

The day I see a Lady Aalim , is the day I'll say women in Islam have finally, truly been given LIBERTY that they deserved.

This is basically the story. These folks can write their purely theoretical justifications for why women are incapable or unsuitable for this or that. Out in the real world, beyond the dank basements of their mental masturbations, women are dominating university graduating classes (even in Iran), establishing themselves in the workforce, running corporations running for the highest political offices in the land and getting votes.

To most reasonable people, this point has become blindingly obvious. They don't need a marja to explain this point anymore than they need a marja to affirm that the sky is blue or that 2+2=4. (Thankfully a few maraja with bravery and integrity have made a stand on this).

Basically, as with a lot of such issues, the people will move ahead of the scholars. As they do, this will give scholars the courage and cover to do the right thing.

Basically, in the end, the scholars will finallly affirm publically what everyone else figured out long before without and despite them.

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RasoolAllah (s) said it is MANDATORY for all MUSLIMS to acqire knowledge, whether male or female

Please take a look at this lecture:

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=JAH3rzOxie0

Part2:http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=%2F&gl=US#/watch?xl=xl_blazer&v=EJsuqIyazbk

The other parts should be in related videos

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This is basically the story. These folks can write their purely theoretical justifications for why women are incapable or unsuitable for this or that. Out in the real world, beyond the dank basements of their mental masturbations, women are dominating university graduating classes (even in Iran), establishing themselves in the workforce, running corporations running for the highest political offices in the land and getting votes.

To most reasonable people, this point has become blindingly obvious. They don't need a marja to explain this point anymore than they need a marja to affirm that the sky is blue or that 2+2=4. (Thankfully a few maraja with bravery and integrity have made a stand on this).

Basically, as with a lot of such issues, the people will move ahead of the scholars. As they do, this will give scholars the courage and cover to do the right thing.

Basically, in the end, the scholars will finallly affirm publically what everyone else figured out long before without and despite them.

+2 ... applause

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Bismillah

The day I see a Lady Aalim , is the day I'll say women in Islam have finally, truly been given LIBERTY that they deserved.

(bismillah)

(salam)

Did you see the link for the woman Ayatollah in post #24 above? She is a female Alim.

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