Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
awaiter of zuhur

Attack On House Of Fatimah By Umar And Abubakr

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

(bismillah)

I have seen in a topic one said " As for Bibi Fatima (ra) getting injured by Hazrat Umar (ra), it's only in Shia books,"

I will write about injuring of Fatima by Umar according to sunni books. It happened when Abubakr and Umar want Ali to oath Abu bakr: but Ali didn't:

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were

informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of

Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,

while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817

So Abubar send Umar and someones to bring them to oath!

Now let us see what Umar ibn Khattab did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:

"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out

and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni Books References:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that:

Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from

setting your house on fire."

Ahl Sunnah references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,

and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni books references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

The historian named the following people among those who attacked the house

of Fatimah to disperse people who sheltered there:

- Umar Ibn al-Khattab

- Khalid Ibn Walid

- Abdurrahman Ibn Ouf

- Thabit Ibn Shammas

- Ziad Ibn Labid

- Muhammad Ibn Maslamah

- Salamah Ibn Salem Ibn Waqash

- Salamah Ibn Aslam

- Usaid Ibn Hozair

- Zaid Ibn Thabit

Lets know more about how done after: :( :mad:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear

by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

Also Jouhari in his book said:

"Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of

Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition."

Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

Furthermore, it is reported that:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought

fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance

to the Prophet's Caliph."

Sunni reference:

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

We read on Sahih Bukhari that:

Aisha said:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did

not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after

the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her

at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by

himself.

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,

v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

Take note that Fatimah was who that holy Prophet (SAWAS) had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

Edited by awaiter of zuhur

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assalam-o-aliakum,

Gentleman I beg your pardon but if you analyse with TAQWA and open heart, you will come to know that chain of narration from Tabari is extremely weak. It comes via chain:

ÇÈä ÍãíÏ ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÌÑíÑ Úä ãÛíÑÉ Úä ÒíÇÏ Èä ßáíÈ

There are several problems in this chain.

1) Jarir ibn Hazim was thiqat, but he got confused in the end of his life. Abdurrahman ibn Mahdi noted that no one heard from him in that time (Abu Saeed al-Alai “al-Mukhtalitin” №8) Ibn Hajar said that he has errs when narrated from his memory. (Taqrib).

2) Mughira ibn Muqsim made tadlis, as he was described by Nasai, and this hadith he reported in muanan form.

3) Ziyad ibn Kulaib Abu Muashar al-Kufi. He was thiqat, but he wasn’t companion. In “Tahzib al-kamal” written the he died in 110 or 119 hijri. Prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) died in 11 hijri. So this ibn Kulaib very unlikely was a eye witness of that alleged forced bayah to Abu Bakr (r.a).

Similarly, you mentioned al-Baladhiri v1, pp 582,586. Again al-Baladhiri’s reliability in Hadith is unknown as there are no words related on his credibility from the Imams. In fact, they have spoken more negatively than good of him. He is mentioned to have taken Baladhir-nuts and being deranged in his late age (Lisan [1:323]). Interestingly, Ansab – a work on genealogies, not history – was left incomplete, because he died. You can figure the rest out.

Need to see direct reference for other one. Arabic text would be perfect.

Here is a complete answer to your claims:

http://islamistruth....yah-of-alira-2/

Wassalam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assalam-o-aliakum,

Gentleman I beg your pardon but if you analyse with TAQWA and open heart, you will come to know that chain of narration from Tabari is extremely weak. It comes via chain:

ÇÈä ÍãíÏ ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÌÑíÑ Úä ãÛíÑÉ Úä ÒíÇÏ Èä ßáíÈ

There are several problems in this chain.

1) Jarir ibn Hazim was thiqat, but he got confused in the end of his life. Abdurrahman ibn Mahdi noted that no one heard from him in that time (Abu Saeed al-Alai “al-Mukhtalitin” №8) Ibn Hajar said that he has errs when narrated from his memory. (Taqrib).

2) Mughira ibn Muqsim made tadlis, as he was described by Nasai, and this hadith he reported in muanan form.

3) Ziyad ibn Kulaib Abu Muashar al-Kufi. He was thiqat, but he wasn’t companion. In “Tahzib al-kamal” written the he died in 110 or 119 hijri. Prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) died in 11 hijri. So this ibn Kulaib very unlikely was a eye witness of that alleged forced bayah to Abu Bakr (r.a).

Similarly, you mentioned al-Baladhiri v1, pp 582,586. Again al-Baladhiri’s reliability in Hadith is unknown as there are no words related on his credibility from the Imams. In fact, they have spoken more negatively than good of him. He is mentioned to have taken Baladhir-nuts and being deranged in his late age (Lisan [1:323]). Interestingly, Ansab – a work on genealogies, not history – was left incomplete, because he died. You can figure the rest out.

Need to see direct reference for other one. Arabic text would be perfect.

Here is a complete answer to your claims:

http://islamistruth....yah-of-alira-2/

Wassalam

You Sunnis did not have problem with 'weak chain' while believing in 'story of Ibn Sabah' which is taken from History of Tabari? Why are you Sunnis such hypocrites?

Here is (Hasan) hadith in 'Jami al-Ahadith by Jalaluddin Al-Suyuti, Volume 13, page 101,' where Abu Bakr confess his attack on Ahl al-Bayt (as) house.

also here ( Hasan ) hadith

فَأَمَّا الثَّلاثُ اللَّاتِي وَدِدْتُ أَنِّي لَمْ أَفْعَلْهُنَّ : فَوَدِدْتُ أَنِّي لَمْ أَكُنْ كَشَفْتُ بَيْتَ فَاطِمَةَ أَوْ تَرَكْتُهُ ، وَأَنْ أُعَلِّقَ عَلَى الْحَرْبِ

al-Ahadisul Muxtara by Ziya al-Maqdisi, Volume 1, page 90,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer )

point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)

point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)

point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)

point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)

point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)

point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH told imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)

these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

(bismillah)

 

I have seen in a topic one said " As for Bibi Fatima (ra) getting injured by Hazrat Umar (ra), it's only in Shia books,"

I will write about injuring of Fatima by Umar according to sunni books. It happened when Abubakr and Umar want Ali to oath Abu bakr: but Ali didn't:

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were

informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of

Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,

while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817

So Abubar send Umar and someones to bring them to oath!

Now let us see what Umar ibn Khattab did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:

"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out

and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni Books References:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that:

Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from

setting your house on fire."

Ahl Sunnah references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,

and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni books references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

The historian named the following people among those who attacked the house

of Fatimah to disperse people who sheltered there:

- Umar Ibn al-Khattab

- Khalid Ibn Walid

- Abdurrahman Ibn Ouf

- Thabit Ibn Shammas

- Ziad Ibn Labid

- Muhammad Ibn Maslamah

- Salamah Ibn Salem Ibn Waqash

- Salamah Ibn Aslam

- Usaid Ibn Hozair

- Zaid Ibn Thabit

Lets know more about how done after: sad.gif :mad:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear

by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

Also Jouhari in his book said:

"Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of

Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition."

Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

Furthermore, it is reported that:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought

fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance

to the Prophet's Caliph."

Sunni reference:

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

We read on Sahih Bukhari that:

Aisha said:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did

not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after

the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her

at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by

himself.

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,

v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

Take note that Fatimah was who that holy Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

 

 

 

 

salam dont sunnis think that if the people seeking refuge in the house of syeda fatima a.s were wrong or evildoers she or imam ali PBUT wouldve kicked them out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer )

point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)

point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)

point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)

point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)

point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)

point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH told imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)

these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

 

Tabari is not considered saheeh even by Sunni standards, many dismissed narrations therein. It's just a collection of narrations from various sources. 

 

It's like a Shia finds a reference in a Sunni hadith, "Hey! this is perfect, I found a reference that will support my agenda/argument". Sunni says, "Well, we don't consider it saheeh". Shias says, "Well too bad, I'm gonna use it anyways!". 

 

It's no different than a Sunni using non-saheeh references from Shia sources to make Shiasm look bad. 

 

It's just plain stupidity, but both sides have to push their agenda, and unfortunately this is one way of doing it. 

Edited by Ugly Jinn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tabari is not considered saheeh even by Sunni standards, many dismissed narrations therein. It's just a collection of narrations from various sources. 

 

It's like a Shia finds a reference in a Sunni hadith, "Hey! this is perfect, I found a reference that will support my agenda/argument". Sunni says, "Well, we don't consider it saheeh". Shias says, "Well too bad, I'm gonna use it anyways!". 

 

It's no different than a Sunni using non-saheeh references from Shia sources to make Shiasm look bad. 

 

It's just plain stupidity, but both sides have to push their agenda, and unfortunately this is one way of doing it. 

I know your comment is really old but just wanted to ask: I thought saheeh muslim and bukhari were considered 100% saheeh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know your comment is really old but just wanted to ask: I thought saheeh muslim and bukhari were considered 100% saheeh?

 

They are by Sunnī standards, although a minority of scholars have dismissed this view (e.g., al-Albānī, See: His introduction in Silslat al-Ahādīth al-Sahīha). What the brother was referring to, is Tārīkh al-Tabarī, and not the two Sahīhīs. The Op's references were primarily from Tārīkh al-Tabarī. 

 

Wa `al-Salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

al-Tabari was not the only historian to document this event in his Tarikh and neither is the mentioning of this event restricted to the other aforementioned sources listed in the earlier posts. Abu Bakr b. Abi Shaybah(d. 235 AH); a famous early and leading Sunni Hadith scholar and one of the teachers of Bukhari whom Bukhari himself narrates Ahadith from him in his Saheeh - mentions this event in his famous Musannaf with a more reliable chain.  

 

حدثنا محمد بن بشر نا عبيد الله بن عمر حدثنا زيد بن أسلم عن أبيه أسلم أنه حين بويع لأبي بكر بعد رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم كان علي والزبير يدخلان على فاطمة بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم

فيشاورونها ويرتجعون في أمرهم فلما بلغ ذلك عمر بن الخطاب خرج حتى دخل على فاطمة فقال يا بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم والله ما من أحد أحب إلينا من أبيك وما من أحد أحب إلينا بعد أبيك منك وأيم الله ما ذاك بمانعي ان اجتمع هؤلاء النفر عندك إن أمرتهم أن يحرق عليهم البيت قال فلما خرج عمر جاؤوها فقالت تعلمون أن عمر قد جاءني وقد حلف بالله لئن عدتم ليحرقن عليكم البيت وأيم الله ليمضين لما حلف عليه فانصرفوا راشدين فروا رأيكم ولا ترجعوا إلي فانصرفوا عنها فلم يرجعوا إليها حتى بايعوا لأبي بكر . ج 7 ص 432 . [ مصنف ابن أبي شيبة ]

 

 

Abu Bakr b. Abi Shaybah: Narrated to us Muhammad b. Bashir, from 'UbaydAllah b. 'Umar, narrated to us Zayd b. Aslam from his father Aslam(servant of 'Umar b. al-Khattab), he said:

 

When the pledge of allegiance was given to Abu Bakr after the demise of Allah's messenger, 'Ali and Zubayr used to arrange meetings at Fatima's house and they used to yushaweronaha(secretly discuss with her) until they leave and go back to their ordinary daily tasks. When 'Umar b. al-Khattab was informed of this, he left until he reached Fatima and said to her: "O daughter or Allah's messenger. There is no one more beloved to me than your father and no one more beloved to me after him than you. But by Allah, if these people arranged in your house again I swear that I will order for the house to be burned on them!" He said: When 'Umar left, they came to her and she said to them: "Did you know that 'Umar came to me today and he sworn by Allah that if you returned to host those meetings, he will burn the house upon you?". So she told them not to host another meeting and they did not return until they gave the pledge of allegiance to Abu Bakr. [Musanaf Ibn Abi Shaybah: Volume 7, page 432]

 

As for the chain, all of the narrators are deemed trustworthy by Sunni scholars and are the narrators of some of the Ahadith in the Saheehs of Bukhari and Muslim. In other words, the chain is arguably much more reliable than the chain in Tabari since none of the narrators are weakened for potentially being Shi'as to fabricate it or take it from liars, having weak memory or being Majhul.

 

At the same time however, Sunnis still weakened this Hadith because the chain is Mursal. The main narrator in the chain is Aslam(d. 80 AH) and he was the servant of 'Umar b. al-Khattab whom 'Umar purchased him from Mecca during the reign of Abu Bakr(so approximately between 11 AH and 13 AH since the reign of Abu Bakr was only two years). Sunnis that weakened this Hadith argue that since Aslam only met the companions after the time 'Umar bought him in Mecca, then he could not have witnessed the event of 'Umar threatening Fatima(as) and 'Ali(as), since this would have taken place before Abu Bakr came to power. Hence, based on this fact, they reject his testimony and as a result weaken and discard this Hadith. Nevertheless, this subjective weakening in my opinion is illogical for briefly the following reasons:

 

1) Aslam does not need to witness the event himself to confirm it when taking into consideration that other independent sources that have different narrators whom Aslam have never met himself(i.e the narrators in al-Tabari's version or a group of Kufans) confirm that same event. In other words, Aslam 's testimony is acting as corroborative evidence to confirm the event from a historical viewpoint, which has not only reached him due to it being famous, but others that he never met, even though these others might be deemed less reliable according to Sunnis.

 

2) Considering that he was the servant of 'Umar until he died and that he narrated other Ahadith from him and other companions including Abu Bakr and 'Uthman, it is most likely that he learned of this event from 'Umar himself so him being physically present at the event when it took place is redundant.

 

3) From the information that we have on Aslam's biography, we know that he only lived in Medina after 'Umar purchased him and died there. Moreover, even if he traveled to Kufa, at most we know for certain based on the narrations that he narrated, he did not narrate from the Kufans(most of what he narrates are from the Sahaba). This is significant to take into consideration because Sunni apologists often propagate the idea that the event of the door is a fabrication created by the Shi'as like Sulaym b. Qays in Kufa or the famous Kufan Imami historian Lut b. Yahya Abu Mu'khnif(rah). But if that was case, how then did a Madani man like Aslam came to know about this "fabrication" that some group of Shi'as in Kufa whom he never met came together to fabricate? This would only suggest his source to confirm this event was not necessarily from the Kufan Shi'as themselves but possibly other Sahaba that he encountered in Medina who witnessed the event or 'Umar himself mentioning it to him, as stated in the second point.

 

 

Other than Ibn Abi Shaybah and Tabari, the famous Tabi'i historian al-Waqidi(d. 207) also mentions this event in his Tarikh, but I don't have the proper references for it on me right now.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

(bismillah)

 

I have seen in a topic one said " As for Bibi Fatima (ra) getting injured by Hazrat Umar (ra), it's only in Shia books,"

I will write about injuring of Fatima by Umar according to sunni books. It happened when Abubakr and Umar want Ali to oath Abu bakr: but Ali didn't:

Al-Bukhari narrated:

Umar said: "And no doubt after the death of the Prophet we were

informed that the Ansar disagreed with us and gathered in the shed of

Bani Sa'da. 'Ali and Zubair and whoever was with them, opposed us,

while the emigrants gathered with Abu Bakr."

Sunni Reference: Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v8, Tradition #817

So Abubar send Umar and someones to bring them to oath!

Now let us see what Umar ibn Khattab did on those days. Sunni historians reported that:

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:

"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out

and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni Books References:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that:

Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from

setting your house on fire."

Ahl Sunnah references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,

and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

Also it is reported that:

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni books references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

The historian named the following people among those who attacked the house

of Fatimah to disperse people who sheltered there:

- Umar Ibn al-Khattab

- Khalid Ibn Walid

- Abdurrahman Ibn Ouf

- Thabit Ibn Shammas

- Ziad Ibn Labid

- Muhammad Ibn Maslamah

- Salamah Ibn Salem Ibn Waqash

- Salamah Ibn Aslam

- Usaid Ibn Hozair

- Zaid Ibn Thabit

Lets know more about how done after: sad.gif :mad:

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear

by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

Also Jouhari in his book said:

"Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of

Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition."

Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

Furthermore, it is reported that:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought

fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance

to the Prophet's Caliph."

Sunni reference:

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

We read on Sahih Bukhari that:

Aisha said:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did

not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after

the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her

at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by

himself.

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,

v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

Take note that Fatimah was who that holy Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáã had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

 

Brother

did not you forget to mention narrations about injuring of Fatima (ra) by Umar (ra)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer ) point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH toldI'm imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer )

If he did raise the sword then what do you think would have happened? Others would have got involved and there would have been a division followed by bloodshed. Islam was in its infancy and many hidden enemies would have taken advantage of this.

point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)

She was a resident and owner of the house, so was this a crime? Was she not suppose to answer the door? How was anyone suppose to know Umar's intentions and he also was a close relative from whom you wouldn't expect something like this.

point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)

He was a lion of Allah and a lion of Allah is someone who fights in the name of Allah during jihad, not someone who goes kicking relations, relatives and neighbours around or settling person scores in the name of God.

point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)

They were arrested and taken for interrogation. This wasn't two groups up against each other, this was the newly elected/formed government forcing others to accept and go along with the decision made in Sakeefa.

point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)

Would you expect your close relation to do something as such? You would only realise once they have done it.

point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)

This was no ordinary person but the daughter of the Prophet. And if Ali told him off and made him realise do you think Umar would have acknowledged and come to his senses? What difference would it have made, after all this is Umar we are talking about. The Prophet asked for a pen and paper for a very important reason, he (Umar) didn't even acknowledge the Prophet so who is Ali, Fatima or anyone else when it comes to the likes of Umar and his intentions?

point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH told imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)

Again the amount of division and bloodshed this would have caused, you are not thinking far ahead and being far sighted. Come on, it's not that difficult. The treaty of Hudaibiya is there. Do we not learn from history? What was the point of that treaty when many Muslims weren't happy about the treaty and many questions could be raised about it. Why do you not question other incidents and events as such?

these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

It's about time we started thinking and looking for answers to these questions, don't you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer )

point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)

point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)

point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)

point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)

point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)

point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH told imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)

these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

 

Good points.

 

point number 1( why hazrat Ali AS did not raise his sword against the umer )

If he did raise the sword then what do you think would have happened? Others would have got involved and there would have been a division followed by bloodshed. Islam was in its infancy and many hidden enemies would have taken advantage of this.

point no 2 ( why Hazrat Fatima SA only went near the door even hazrat Ali AS and other companions were present?)

She was a resident and owner of the house, so was this a crime? Was she not suppose to answer the door? How was anyone suppose to know Umar's intentions and he also was a close relative from whom you wouldn't expect something like this.

point number 3(hazrat Ali AS was the lion of Allah then how umar can even dare to attack his house?)

He was a lion of Allah and a lion of Allah is someone who fights in the name of Allah during jihad, not someone who goes kicking relations, relatives and neighbours around or settling person scores in the name of God.

point number 4(why did not Hazrat abu zar (ra) , hazrat maqdad(ra) and hazrat salman(ra) help imam Ali AS)

They were arrested and taken for interrogation. This wasn't two groups up against each other, this was the newly elected/formed government forcing others to accept and go along with the decision made in Sakeefa.

point 5( i am unable to understand that imam Ali AS and his companions were in the house too.....then why they let only hazrat fatima SA to go near the door?)

Would you expect your close relation to do something as such? You would only realise once they have done it.

point number 6( why only hazrat Fatima SA shouted at umar why not imam Ali AS shouted and warned umar)

This was no ordinary person but the daughter of the Prophet. And if Ali told him off and made him realise do you think Umar would have acknowledged and come to his senses? What difference would it have made, after all this is Umar we are talking about. The Prophet asked for a pen and paper for a very important reason, he (Umar) didn't even acknowledge the Prophet so who is Ali, Fatima or anyone else when it comes to the likes of Umar and his intentions?

point 7 ( i know Holy Prophet PBUH told imam Ali AS to be patient but imam Ali AS could have nip the evil in the bud by warning umar at the initial level then why did not he?)

Again the amount of division and bloodshed this would have caused, you are not thinking far ahead and being far sighted. Come on, it's not that difficult. The treaty of Hudaibiya is there. Do we not learn from history? What was the point of that treaty when many Muslims weren't happy about the treaty and many questions could be raised about it. Why do you not question other incidents and events as such?

these are some of the confusions in my mind..............

It's about time we started thinking and looking for answers to these questions, don't you think?

 

Not satisfactory answers. Fatimah RA was pregnant also, a pregnant ,lady would not indulge in man-to-man affair, especially dealing it physically.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brother

did not you forget to mention narrations about injuring of Fatima (ra) by Umar (ra)?

 

For references and other related hadiths (like her will to not let the sheikhain attend her funeral) which are undeniable: http://www.abubakr.org/

 

Good points.

 

 

Not satisfactory answers. Fatimah RA was pregnant also, a pregnant ,lady would not indulge in man-to-man affair, especially dealing it physically.

 

Oftopic:

This story makes me soo mad!

I'm sure they were all ready to die wasn't it for the command of Allah to keep calm.

 

I suggest all of you refrain from reviving this thread. So far your posts have served no purpose. Resurrecting old forum posts with these type of replies in not appreciated and unnecessary. Please read the SC rules and Policy: [link].

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why didn't you suggest this earlier with your own post #8 and whats wrong with my reply?

 

I suggest people practice what they preach.

 

A member made an inquiry about a certain a matter, so I gave an answer. You posted an unnecessary link with almost the same references provided by the OP, although the link has no relation to the topic whatsoever. The thread is 5 years old. SC rules: Resurrecting old forum posts is also not appreciated unless it serves a worthy cause to the forum. A link has already been provided. Let's not revive and drail the thread.

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The thread is "drailed" by yourself my friend. Relax. If you think the link I provided was unnecessary, fine, that's your opinion. However I sort of doubt if you on your own are in a executive position to judge if a thread serves a worthy cause to the forum or not. With that out of the way, perhaps you would like to return to the topic by appreciating or commenting on Al-Hassan's gem of a post. In my eyes that post is better than all the posts of some people and more worthy than many forums. If this thread serves as a vehicle for it then so be it but imho such informative posts can not be appreciated enough.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you think the link I provided was unnecessary, fine, that's your opinion.

 

Your link particularly bears no relation to the topic. The rule speaks for it self. 

 

 

 

However I sort of doubt if you on your own are in a executive position to judge if a thread serves a worthy cause to the forum or not.

 

The four quoted replies [post #15] surely don't, in relation to the topic. 

 

 

 

perhaps you would like to return to the topic by appreciating or commenting on Al-Hassan's gem of a post

 

His post is in place. I haven't mentioned it as unnecessary. 

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your link particularly bears no relation to the topic.

 

You posted an unnecessary link with almost the same references provided by the OP

 

Make up your mind bro. :p

 

The material I linked is rather a significant part of the incriminating evidence related to the topic under discussion. ^^^ And that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Make up your mind bro. :P

 

The material I linked is rather a significant part of the incriminating evidence related to the topic under discussion. ^^^ And that's all.

 

The matter discussed in this thread is the specifically the attack on the house of Fāṭimat al-Zahrā [a.s]. The same references proving her status are used, while the topics presented are not. Although Fadak and the attack fall under Fāṭimat's [a.s] tragedy, it is not part of the Op's discussion. It is usually after such off-topic replies, the thread escalates going off on a tangent. I won't be replying after this. Please refrain thanks.

Edited by Jaafar Al-Shibli

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread may be closed soon i quickly want to add to it before it does!!!. To be fair to the sunnis brothers, I could not find any of this event in any sahih sitta books but a respected muslim scholar has mentioned this event briefly.

 

Ibn Abi Asim mentions in His book, ( المُذَكِّرُ والتَّذْكيرُ والذِّكْر ), al-Mudhakar wa al-Tadhkeer wa al-Dhikar, p. 91, Narration 19:

 

حدثنا أبو بكر بن أبي شيبة: نا محمد بن بشر: ثنا عبيد الله بن عمر، عن زيد بن أسلم، عن أبيه؛ قال:
“بلغ عمر بن الخطاب أن ناساً يجتمعون في بيت فاطمة، فأتاها، فقال: يا بنت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم! ما كان أحدٌ من الناس أحبَّ إلينا من أبيك، ولا بعد أبيك أحبَّ إلينا منك؛ فقد بلغني أن هؤلاء النفر يجتمعونَ عندك، وايم الله؛ لئن بلغني ذلك؛ لأحرِقَنَّ عليهم البيت

 

This Narration is saying: Umar got the news that people have gathered in house of Fatima, so He came and said: None is more dear to me than Your father, and none is more dear to me after him, than you. For sure I have got this news that People have gathered in your house. By God! if this comes to me, I will burn them with this house

 

Researcher of the book, Khalid bin Qasim al-Radadi terms the chain as Sahih.

Edited by goldenhawk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Assalam-o-aliakum,Gentleman I beg your pardon but if you analyse with TAQWA and open heart, you will come to know that chain of narration from Tabari is extremely weak. It comes via chain:ÇÈä ÍãíÏ ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÌÑíÑ Úä ãÛíÑÉ Úä ÒíÇÏ Èä ßáíÈThere are several problems in this chain.1) Jarir ibn Hazim was thiqat, but he got confused in the end of his life. Abdurrahman ibn Mahdi noted that no one heard from him in that time (Abu Saeed al-Alai “al-Mukhtalitin” №8) Ibn Hajar said that he has errs when narrated from his memory. (Taqrib).2) Mughira ibn Muqsim made tadlis, as he was described by Nasai, and this hadith he reported in muanan form.3) Ziyad ibn Kulaib Abu Muashar al-Kufi. He was thiqat, but he wasn’t companion. In “Tahzib al-kamal” written the he died in 110 or 119 hijri. Prophet (sallalahu alaihi wa ala alihi wa sallam) died in 11 hijri. So this ibn Kulaib very unlikely was a eye witness of that alleged forced bayah to Abu Bakr (r.a).Similarly, you mentioned al-Baladhiri v1, pp 582,586. Again al-Baladhiri’s reliability in Hadith is unknown as there are no words related on his credibility from the Imams. In fact, they have spoken more negatively than good of him. He is mentioned to have taken Baladhir-nuts and being deranged in his late age (Lisan [1:323]). Interestingly, Ansab – a work on genealogies, not history – was left incomplete, because he died. You can figure the rest out.Need to see direct reference for other one. Arabic text would be perfect.Here is a complete answer to your claims:http://islamistruth....yah-of-alira-2/Wassalam

The chain of narration here is weak but I guess the chain of narrations concerning the marriage of Fatima and Ali's daughter to the great grandfather Umar must be very strong, reliable and automatically authentic and shouldn't be questioned, why?

Good points.

 

 

Not satisfactory answers. Fatimah RA was pregnant also, a pregnant ,lady would not indulge in man-to-man affair, especially dealing it physically.

Think again, and this time with open mind. That is all. I don't like to repeat my self and discuss with those who don't have the ability to discuss any points but just give a silly reply with a full stop. Aisha indulged in man to man affairs, entered public life and the political arena. She even went to war and dealt with men telling them and answering their questions regarding religious matters when men were available in large numbers to do that man to man. So what do you have to say about that?

Come on, put your thinking cap on. Think and look in to matters before you talk!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When Umar came to the door of the house of Fatimah, he said:

"By Allah, I shall burn down (the house) over you unless you come out

and give the oath of allegiance (to Abu Bakr)."

Sunni Books References:

- History of Tabari (Arabic), v1, pp 1118-1120

- History of Ibn Athir, v2, p325

- al-Isti'ab, by Ibn Abd al-Barr, v3, p975

- Tarikh al-Kulafa, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p20

- al-Imamah wal-Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 19-20

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some Ahlussunah scholars mention that:

Umar went to Fatimah and Umar said:

"O' daughter of the Prophet! I didn't love anyone as much as I

loved your father, nor anyone after him is more loving to me as

you are. But I swear by Allah that if these people assemble

here with you, then this love of mine would not prevent me from

setting your house on fire."

Ahl Sunnah references:

- History of Tabari, in the events of the year 11 AH

- al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, beginning of the book,

and pp 19-20

- Izalatul Khilafa, by Shah Waliullah Muhaddith Dehlavi, v2, p362

- Iqd al-Farid, by Ibn Abd Rabbah al-Malik, v2, chapter of Saqifah

 

 

 

 

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Ahl Sunnah book reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

 

 

 

 

Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni books references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

 

 

Umar asked for wood, and told those people inside the house: "I swear

by Allah who has my soul in his hand, that if you do not come out, I

will burn the house." Someone told Umar that Fatimah was inside the

house. Umar said: "So what! It doesn't matter to me who is in the

house."

Sunni reference: al-Imamah wa al-Siyasah by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, pp 3,19-20

 

 

Also Jouhari in his book said:

"Umar and a few Muslims went to the house of

Fatimah to burn it down and to burn those who were in opposition."

Ibn Shahna said the same statement adding "to burn the house and inhabitants".

 

 

 

 

Furthermore, it is reported that:

Ali and Abbas were sitting inside the house of Fatimah, Abu Bakr told

Umar: "Go and bring them; if they refuse, kill them." Umar brought

fire to burn the house. Fatimah came near the door and said: "O son of

Khattab, have you come to burn our house on me and my children?" Umar

replied: "Yes I will, by Allah, until they come out and pay allegiance

to the Prophet's Caliph."

Sunni reference:

- Iqd al-Fareed, by Ibn Abd Rabb, Part 3, Pg. 63

- al-Ghurar, by Ibn Khazaben, related from Zayd Ibn Aslam

 

 

 

 

We read on Sahih Bukhari that:

Aisha said:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did

not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after

the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her

at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by

himself.

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,

v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

Take note that Fatimah was who that holy Prophet (SAWAS) had frequently said:

"Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry."

Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

 

Answer of all the questions asked by Sunnis, this cover all the question

Holy Prophet said Imam Ali (asws) to be patient

abubakr and umer were having dispute with Imam Ali (عليه السلام) as so they would never listen to what Imam Ali (عليه السلام) what tell. Janabe Fatema (sa) went because she was the daughter of Holy Prophet and could influence the oppressors. She also wanted to how to the world that those who had no regards for the daughter of Holy Prophet would never have regards for the shariyat

Imam Ali (asws) was the final authority for all when he inspite of being capable did not lift his sword than how can his companions, few of them wanted to but Imam Ali (عليه السلام) stopped them

The orders of the holy Prophet (saws) was final

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...