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In the Name of God بسم الله

Kurds And Jinn

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4 minutes ago, Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi said:

How much hadiths of Mathab e Shia gets weakened by this criteria?

How much of your aqaid will survive if you apply this criteria?

Its dis-honesty to be lenient with hadiths when authenticating them just because they favor us, but if they don't we apply some hardest rules to weaken them.

a question in my mind right now is this friend of mine whom I know who is a Turkish shia Kurd, who even went to Hawza. If he reads such a hadith, what would he think. I am sure he read it. Next time I meet him I'll ask him. There might be something fishy about the negative part of this hadith, and one could possibly see it as an attempt to keep the blood lines pure. But it does not make sense in light of the Quran to negatively portray someone just because they are Jinn. It reminds me of the following verse combination ..

 

The bedouins are stronger in disbelief and hypocrisy and more likely not to know the limits of what Allah has revealed to His Messenger. Tawba 97

 

.. now if I quote this one that talks about the "Arabs" literally, one might think that it's insulting the Arab race, and all Arabs would be offended and leave Islam. Ironically the Kurds are also considered nomadic. But then, when you read on, you find a balancing verse, that scoops up all the good Arabs ..

 

But among the bedouins are some who believe in Allah and the Last Day and consider what they spend as means of nearness to Allah and of invocations of the Messenger.  Tawba:99

So likewise we have hadiths that talk favorably about the Jinn, and above all, let us look at suret Jinn that does not say that the word Jinn and whatever the hadith seems to generalize is always true. So the hadith could be true, but one reads it not in a all-encompassing way. Obviously not all Jinn are bad, and not all Kurds are bad. So boycotting certain Jinn and/or Kurds isn't always the rule - even if the hadith was narrated in context to some Jinn who were bothering ahlulbayt at the time. That's how I see it, and I could be wrong.

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@Northwest Here is an article that offers some explanations http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/11/refutation-against-alleged-racist.html?m=1

:blink:

by the way, this text is copy pasted with an introduction by a user on some forum probably who is basically saying "let us not forget what heroes the Kurds have been in Islam and what great Mujahedeen

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1 hour ago, Allah Seeker said:

I really wonder if you will admit it now that I proved from the Quran and Hadiths that being a Jinn is nothing bad!

No need to wonder, it's all in the Qur'an and I know not all are bad:  وَخَلَقَ الْجَانَّ مِن مَّارِجٍ مِّن نَّارٍ - 55:15

Clearly, we know that the Kurdish people are not beings of smokeless fire or invisible.

Secondly, in Surah al-Jinn, we have the following dialogue : 

قُلْ أُوحِيَ إِلَيَّ أَنَّهُ اسْتَمَعَ نَفَرٌ مِّنَ الْجِنِّ فَقَالُوا إِنَّا سَمِعْنَا قُرْآنًا عَجَبًا - 72:1

يَهْدِي إِلَى الرُّشْدِ فَآمَنَّا بِهِ ۖ وَلَن نُّشْرِكَ بِرَبِّنَا أَحَدًا - 72:2

وَأَنَّهُ تَعَالَىٰ جَدُّ رَبِّنَا مَا اتَّخَذَ صَاحِبَةً وَلَا وَلَدًا - 72:3

وَأَنَّهُ كَانَ يَقُولُ سَفِيهُنَا عَلَى اللَّهِ شَطَطًا - 72:4

وَأَنَّا ظَنَنَّا أَن لَّن تَقُولَ الْإِنسُ وَالْجِنُّ عَلَى اللَّهِ كَذِبًا - 72:5

^This has absolutely nothing to do with people in context,even though I know that in Arabic, jinn can refer to people "hidden" from civilization. We know that the jinn have free will to choose Islam or not but that doesn't make them human.  The men in 72:6 were not people descended from jinn but people who associated with them and sought their "power " and allured the people from "mankind"

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ الْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ ۗ أَفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِن دُونِي وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ ۚ بِئْسَ لِلظَّالِمِينَ بَدَلًا - 18:50

^ Here, it tells us that the Jinn are descendants of Iblees (la) and that he disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), again nothing to do with people.

يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا ادْخُلُوا فِي السِّلْمِ كَافَّةً وَلَا تَتَّبِعُوا خُطُوَاتِ الشَّيْطَانِ ۚ إِنَّهُ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ مُّبِينٌ - 2:208

^ "And do not not follow Satan. He is a clear enemy to you." Pretty harsh words for the father of Jinns, again this is repeated through out the Qur'an, there are 28 references to jinns, plus 11 for Iblis. There are very few ringing endorsements for them, they are mostly to be avoided and left alone. I wonder how you got the idea that they are "good"?

Those hadiths you posted contradict the Qur'an. 

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1 hour ago, Allah Seeker said:

if our opinions clash, then one of ours is wrong. And you are not God! 

I never said I was Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), you're simply putting words in my mouth because you're angry, angry only because you know I'm right. There can be only one version of the truth.

Kurds are human and our brothers, according to Islam and that also applies to other races with blonde hair and blue eyes. . 

 

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Here, it tells us that the Jinn are descendants of Iblees (la) and that he disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), again nothing to do with people.

It says he was from the jinn, and not the other way round! I hope your mistake isn't on purpose. 

1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

. I wonder how you got the idea that they are "good"?

How I get the idea that there are good jinn? What are you on about. I lost respect for you

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1 hour ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

I never said I was Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), you're simply putting words in my mouth because you're angry, angry only because you know I'm right. There can be only one version of the truth.

Kurds are human and our brothers, according to Islam and that also applies to other races with blonde hair and blue eyes. . 

 

I proved above from the quran thay jinn are human, did you read? No! I showed hadiths where ahl bayt refer to jinn as brothers. Did you read them? No! This is like debating with a deaf and blind person! 

Will you admit yet another clearly false information you claim, which is the part where you claim a verse meaning that all jinn are descendants from iblis? I won't argue about anything other than this point from now inshalah, just to show everyone that you are most likely spreading misinformation on purpose! Will you admit it? 

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2 hours ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

 

وَإِذْ قُلْنَا لِلْمَلَائِكَةِ اسْجُدُوا لِآدَمَ فَسَجَدُوا إِلَّا إِبْلِيسَ كَانَ مِنَ الْجِنِّ فَفَسَقَ عَنْ أَمْرِ رَبِّهِ ۗ أَفَتَتَّخِذُونَهُ وَذُرِّيَّتَهُ أَوْلِيَاءَ مِن دُونِي وَهُمْ لَكُمْ عَدُوٌّ ۚ بِئْسَ لِلظَّالِمِينَ بَدَلًا - 18:50

^ Here, it tells us that the Jinn are descendants of Iblees (la) and that he disobeyed Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), again nothing to do with people.

Here Gaius. Will you admit you are wrong here? (Again) Why do you only post the Arabic if you don't know Arabic? Why don't you post any English translation? This is a mistake, will you admit and apologise for spreading falsehood about the words of God's?

 

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4 hours ago, Allah Seeker said:

And there were men from ins who sought refuge in men from the jinn. Jinn:6

That means there exist genders in Jinns (male/female). The Arabic word رجل and its plural رجال means men. 

And if there exist females among Jinns, is there any need for them to wed outside of their community. It would be like human marrying goat or camel etc.

That doesn't make sense brother.

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8 minutes ago, Cool said:

And if there exist females among Jinns, is there any need for them to wed outside of their community. It would be like human marrying goat or camel etc.

That doesn't make sense brother.

Actually brother jinn are described pretty much exactly like all of us in the above hadiths and quran. And it's normal for individuals over time to marry outside of their tribes. It happens 

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2 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Actually brother jinn are described pretty much exactly like all of us in the above hadiths and quran. And it's normal for individuals over time to marry outside of their tribes. It happens 

As far as I remember they are created with مارج من نار are they or their DNA compatible with ours for reproduction? 

 

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12 minutes ago, Cool said:

As far as I remember they are created with مارج من نار are they or their DNA compatible with ours for reproduction? 

 

It seems that they are. The point is that many of us have lots odd jinn genes without even knowing it. The reference to the elements like fire or mud seem to be more symbolic than anything. The evidence discussed above including the hadiths that concerned the original poster do suggest that. 

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7 hours ago, El Cid said:

Pashtun aren't kurds. I've seen the occasional blonde/red haired blue eyed individual amongst their populace as well. Both women and men. Some of my friends are Pashtun and look caucasian in features whilst a lot of them are the black haired with brown eyes as well.

By the way I just wanted to say concerning this that there is talk about the Iranians having been inhabited and ruled by the so- called Aryans, which people say are the same people we are talking about  originate from the Caucasus  and are basically from the race of the jinn. So that could theoretically explain your observation as well.

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Chapter 309 – The reason due to which it is disliked to have dealings with the ones with deformities حدثنا محمد بن الحسن رحمه هللا قال: حدثنا محمد بن يحيى العطار عن محمد بن أحمد بن يحيى عن أحمد بن محمد باسناده رفعه قال: قال أبو عبد هللا )ع( احذروا معاملة أصحاب العاهات فانهم أظلم شئ. Muhammad Bin Al Hassan narrated to us, from Muhammad Bin Yahya Al Ataar, from Muhammad Bin Ahmad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, by his chain, raising it, said, ‘Abu Abdullahasws said: ‘Be cautious of dealing with the ones with deformities, for they are the most unjust of things’.54 )باب 132 - العلة التي من أجلها يكره مخالطة االكراد

( Chapter 310 – The reason due to which it is disliked to mingle with the Kurds أبي رحمه هللا قال: حدثنا سعد بن عبد هللا عن أحمد بن محمد عن علي ابن الحكم عمن حدثه عن أبي الربيع الشامي قال: سألت أبا عبد هللا )ع( فقلت له ان عندنا أقواما من االكراد يجيئونا بالبيع ونبايعهم فقال: يا ربيع ال تخالطهم فان االكراد حى من الجن كشف هللا عنهم الغطاء فال تخالطهم My father said, ‘Sa’ad Bin Abdullah narrated to us, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Ali Ibn Al Hakam, from the one who narrated it, from Abu Al Rabie Al Shamy who said, ‘I asked Abu Abdullahasws, so I said to himasws, ‘With us there are a people from the Kurds who come to us with the trading, so we trade with them’. So heasws said: ‘O Rabie! Do not intermingle with them, for the Kurds are a district (tribe) from the Jinn. Allahazwj Uncovered the covering from them, therefore do not intermingle with them’.5

Chapter 311 – The reason due to which it is disliked to intermingle with the lowly people (riff raff) أبي رحمه هللا قال: حدثنا أحمد بن ادريس عن محمد بن أحمد عن محمد ابن عيسى عن الحسن بن علي بن يقطين عن الحسن بن مياح عن عيسى قال: قال أبو عبد هللا )ع( اياك ومخالطة السفلة فان السفلة ال تؤل إلى خير. My father said, ‘Ahmad Bin Idrees narrated to us, from Muhammad Bin Ahmad, from Muhammad Ibn Isa, from Al Hassan Bin Ali Bin Yaqteen, from Al Hassan Bin Mayaah, from Isa who said, ‘Abu Abdullahasws said: ‘Beware of intermingling with the lowly people (riff raff), for the lowly people do not turn towards the good’.57

Source, pp. 33–4

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Chapter 28 – The reason due to which there came to be among the people, the Blacks, and the Turks, and Al-Saqaliba, and Gog and Magog حدثنا علي بن أحمد بن محمد رضى هللا عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن أبي عبد هللا الكوفي قال: حدثنا سهل بن زياد اآلدمي قال: حدثنا عبد العظيم بن عبد هللا الحسني قال: سمعت علي بن محمد العسكري عليه السالم يقول: عاش نوح عليه السالم الفين وخمسمائة سنة، وكان يوما في السفينة نائما، فهبت ريح فكشفت عن عورته فضحك حام ويافث، فزجرهما سام عليه السالم ونهاهما عن الضحك، وكان كلما غطى سام شيئا تكشفه الريح كشفه حام ويافث Ali Bin Ahmad Bin Muhammad, from Muhammad Bin Abu Abdullah Al Kufy, from Sahl Bin Ziyad Al Admy, from Abdul Azeem Bin Abdullah Al Hasany who said,

‘I heard Aliasws Bin Muhammad Al-Askaryasws saying: ‘Noahas lived for two thousand five hundred years. One day heas asleep in the ship, so a wind descended and uncovered hisas honour. So Haam and Yaafas laughed, and Saamas rebuked them and forbid them from the laughing. And every time Saamas covered something which the wind uncovered, Haam and Yafas would uncover it. فانتبه نوح عليه السالم فرآهم وهم يضحكون فقال ماهذا؟ فاخبره سام بما كان، فرفع نوح عليه السالم يده إلى السماء يدعو ويقول: اللهم غير، ماء صلب حام، حتى ال يولد له إال السودان، اللهم غير ماء صلب يافث فغير هللا ماء صلبهما،

So Noahas paid attention to it and saw them, and they were laughing. So heas said: ‘What is this?’ So, Saamas informed himas of what had happened. So Noahas raised hisas hands to the sky and supplicated and was saying: ‘O Allahazwj! Change the water (seed) of Haam until he does not beget except for the black. O Allahazwj! Change the water (seed) of Yafas!’ So Allahazwj Changed the water of their ribs. فجميع السودان حيث كانوا من حام، وجميع الترك والسقالبة ويأجوج ومأجوج والصين من يافث حيث كانوا، وجميع البيض سواهم من سام،

Therefore, all the black (people), wherever they may be, are from Haam, and all of the Turks and Al-Saqaliba, and Gog, and Magod, and the Chinese, are from Yafas wherever they may be, and all the white, besides them, are from Saamas . وقال نوح " ع " لحام ويافث: جعل هللا ذريتكما خوال لذرية سام إلى يوم القيامة، النه بر بى وعققتمانى، فال زالت سمة عقوقكما لي في ذريتكما ظاهرة وسمة البر بى في ذرية سام ظاهرة ما بقيت الدنيا.

And Noahas said to Haam and Yafas: ‘Allahazwj has Made the offspring of the both of you as followers to the offspring of Saamas up to the Day of Judgement, because heas was righteous with meas and your (both) being disobedient to me. So the traits of disobedience of the both of you would not cease to be in the offspring of you both, in the apparent, nor would the traits of righteousness cease to be in the offspring of Saamas, in the apparent, for as long as the world remains’.42 )باب 29 - العلة

Source, pp. 33–4

Quote

ل ُُم َ ) عليه السالم ( ق ِ اللَّه ِ د ْ ب َ ع َ اء َ ر َْسْ وا ُ َّوج َ َز َي ) عليه السالم ( ت ِ ن ِ م ْ ؤ ُ الْم ُ ْي ِ اَل أَم َ ق ا . َ ه ُ ر ْ ه َ م َّ َي ل َ َع ا ف َ َه ت ْ ْن َكِره ِ إ َ ف ا ة َ وع ُ ب ْ ر َ م َ اء َ ز ْ َج ع َ اء َ ن ْ ي Muhammad Bin Yahya, from Ahmad Bin Muhammad Bin Isa, from Mallik Bin Asheym, from one of his men, (It has been narrated) from Abu Abdullahasws having said: ‘Amir AlMomineenasws said: ‘Marry a brunette (nor very white nor too dark), of large eyes (and) buttocks, of a medium stature, so if you dislike her, then her dowry would be upon measws’.15

Source, p. 10

@Sumerian @notme @Ibn Al-Ja'abi @Gaius I. Caesar @randomly curious @Ashvazdanghe @Haji 2003 @haideriam @Soldiers and Saffron @Ali_Hussain @Mahdavist @Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi @OrthodoxTruth @Qa'im @Logic1234 @Allah Seeker

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On 10/10/2020 at 7:22 PM, Northwest said:

I really enjoyed reading these for the simple reason that I never read these before from Muslim sources. Very interesting, thanks!

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On 10/10/2020 at 12:22 PM, Northwest said:

It's so cute when people bring up weak hadith and act like they found some ace in the sleeve to challenge Muslims with. :hahaha:

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On 10/10/2020 at 8:57 PM, Ali_Hussain said:

@Ali_Hussain @El Cid

This link does not really address my concerns. For example, hadith bearing a weak chain of narrators are not necessarily wrong. For example, the link lists the following hadith as weak:

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عِدَّةٌ مِنْ أَصْحَابِنَا عَنْ سَهْلِ بْنِ زِيَادٍ عَنْ مُوسَى بْنِ جَعْفَرٍ عَنْ عَمْرِو بْنِ سَعِيدٍ عَنْ مُحَمَّدِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ الْهَاشِمِيِّ عَنْ أَحْمَدَ بْنِ يُوسُفَ عَنْ عَلِيِّ بْنِ دَاوُدَ الْحَدَّادِ عَنْ أَبِي عَبْدِ اللَّهِ ع قَالَ لَا تُنَاكِحُوا الزِّنْجَ وَ الْخَزَرَ فَإِنَّ لَهُمْ أَرْحَاماً تَدُلُّ عَلَى غَيْرِ الْوَفَاءِ قَالَ وَ الْهِنْدُ وَ السِّنْدُ وَ الْقَنْدُ لَيْسَ فِيهِمْ نَجِيبٌ يَعْنِي الْقُنْدُهَارَ 

“Do not marry the Zanj and the Khazar. Verily, for their wombs show upon other than obedience. He (عليه السلام) said: “And the Hind, and the Sind, and the Qand are not in them highbred meaning Kandahar.” 

Source: Al-Kaafee by Shaykh Kulaynee, vol. 5, pg. 352, h. 3
Wasaa’il Al-Shee’ah by Shaykh Hurr al-‘Aamilee, vol. 20, pg. 82, h. 25089
Grading: Da’eef

Yet further on, a reliable hadith is quoted as generally defining several nations around the world as enemies of Allah:

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Now, when we dissect this “Zanj” definition we can either take it as all of Negros or as a specific group of people. Let us see how Imaam Zayn al-‘Aabideen (عليه السلام) uses it in SaHeefah al-Sajjaadiyyah, du’aa` #27:
 
اللَّهُمَّ وَ اعْمُمْ بِذَلِكَ أَعْدَاءَكَ فِي أَقْطَارِ الْبِلَادِ مِنَ الْهِنْدِ وَ الرُّومِ وَ التُّرْكِ وَ الْخَزَرِ وَ الْحَبَشِ وَ النُّوبَةِ وَ الزَّنْجِ وَ السَّقَالِبَةِ وَ الدَّيَالِمَةِ وَ سَائِرِ أُمَمِ الشِّرْكِ، الَّذِينَ تَخْفَى أَسْمَاؤُهُمْ وَ صِفَاتُهُمْ، وَ قَدْ أَحْصَيْتَهُمْ بِمَعْرِفَتِكَ، وَ أَشْرَفْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ بِقُدْرَتِكَ.

Translation: O Allaah (سبحانه و تعالى), include in this Thy enemies in the regions of the lands, the Indians, the Byzantines, the Turks, the Khazars, the Abyssinians, the Nubians, the Zanjis, the Slavs, the Daylamites, and the rest of the idol-worshipping nations, those whose names and attributes are concealed, but whom Thou countest in Thy cognizance and overseest through Thy power!”

The link goes on to claim that this narration does not include every member of those pagan nations, but the way in which the translation is worded suggests the opposite, that is, “include in this Thy enemies around the world, (then goes on to list pagan nations, both known and unknown)...” How does this constitute anything but a blanket denunciation of these entire nations, down to the individual?

Quote

Also, Imaam Muhammad bin ‘Alee Al-Jawaad’s (عليه السلام) mother was a slave-wife called Sabeekah, she was a Nubian. Shaykh Al-Toosee speaks about marrying the Nubian.

How do we know that these traditions of interracial marriage are not fabricated/PC as well?

Weren’t some usurper caliphs described as being not just [Edited Out]s, but also dark-skinned?

On 10/10/2020 at 7:22 PM, Northwest said:

Is anyone able to grade the hadith I quoted above, particularly the one in the middle about Ham and Yafas (Yafith, Japheth)? That hadith says that, while race does not determine righteousness, righteousness determines race, and implies that Ham and Japheth’s act(s) of disobedience while onboard the Ark was genetically transmitted to their offspring, physical (outward) appearance indicating the moral status of their race(s). Furthermore, per “reliable tradition”:

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Reliable tradition of Imam as-Sadiq mentions that after embarking from the ship, Nuh lived for five hundred years. ... Accordingly Nuh handed over “The Greatest Name”, and the Prophetic relics to his son Sam. Ham and Yusuf had no knowledge from which they could benefit themselves. ... After some time oppression and deviation found roots in the children of Ham. Sam went into hiding with the relics. After Nuh Sam got the wealth of Ham and Yafith and they became dominant over them. It is for this that Allah says: “And We perpetuated to him (praise) among the later generations.”

Source

The same source above also mentions Ham and Japheth being genetically punished for their sin(s) against Prophet Noah.

It is also known that, per the Qur’ān and hadith, previous prophets confirmed earlier Scripture, so anything that is unmentioned by either the Qur’ān or hadith, yet present in earlier writings, i.e., Israelite narratives, should not be discarded on that basis, since it should be analysed contextually. For example, Genesis and the Book of Enoch mention the Nephilim, whereas Islam does not pay much attention to them, yet this does not imply that the Israelite narratives are incorrect.

In relation to the above:

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The Jewish (Talmudic) scholars, he said, advanced two explanations for Ham and his children being turned black. According to Brackman, “The more important version of the myth, however, ingeniously ties in the origins of blackness — and of other, real and imagined Negroid traits — with Noah’s Curse itself. According to it, Ham (or his son Canaan – ed.) is told by his outraged father that, because you have abused me in the darkness of the night, your children shall be born black and ugly; because you have twisted your head to cause me embarrassment, they shall have kinky hair and red eyes; because your lips jested at my exposure, theirs shall swell; and because you neglected my nakedness, they shall go naked with their shamefully elongated male members exposed for all to see.” 

Louis Ginzberg’s Legends of the Jews (pages 168-170)

The descendants of Ham through Canaan therefore have red eyes, because Ham looked upon the nakedness of his father; they have misshapen lips, because Ham spoke with his lips to his brothers about the unseemly condition of his father; they have twisted curly hair, because Ham turned and twisted his head round to see the nakedness of his father; and they go about naked, because Ham did not cover the nakedness of his father. Thus he was requited, for it is the way of God to mete out punishment measure for measure. ...

The last will and testament of Canaan addressed to his children read as follows: “Speak not the truth; hold not yourselves aloof from theft; lead a dissolute life; hate your master with an exceeding great hate; and love one another.” ...

Naked the descendants of Ham, the Egyptians and Ethiopians, were led away captive and into exile by the king of Assyria, while the descendants of Shem, the Assyrians, even when the angel of the Lord burnt them in the camp, were not exposed, their garments remained upon their corpses unsinged. And in time to come, when Gog shall suffer his defeat, God will provide both shrouds and a place of burial for him and all his multitude, the posterity of Japheth.

Source

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Some points I have to clear up:

1. The Canaanites were expelled by the Israelites to Africa.
2. Black skin and curly hair cannot be explained by science, since there are many peoples (out of black africa): Arabs, Berbers, Amerindians, Indians, Indonesians and others who live in hot and dry/ hot and wet regions and are not black skinned/curly haired like Africans and their offshoots (Papuans and others). And that is really suspicious.
3. The curse of slavery and black skin was only put on Canaan and not on Ham’s other children who were darkish (and not black african skinned!) and free, while most Africans were in the state of slavery even in Africa.
4. Many africans tribes had and some still retain, traditions of being descended from Canaan and have their origin in the current Land of Israel. The Efik, Yoruba, , Hausa from Nigeria, the Agaws from Ethiopia and the Meru from Uganada are just a few to name.
5. The pre-Indo Europeans were from lineage of Japheth, but the warrior, newcomer Aryan conquerers were from lineage of Shem, the mighty chosen son of Noah.

Source

Obviously, Sunni sources have similar traditions to those of the Israelites and the hadith listed in Shia sources above...

There are even references to this in esoteric, occult literature (Kurds, Chinese, blacks, etc. do worship jinn and angels):

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Esoteric history teaches that idols and their worship died out with the Fourth Race, until the survivors of the hybrid races of the latter (Chinamen, African Negroes, &c.) gradually brought the worship back. (Note that the very same peoples are mentioned in the hadith on Ham and Japheth – ed.) The Vedas countenance no idols; all the modern Hindu writings do.

Source

These kinds of issues are posing big problems for me. I would like to know how reliable the traditions are. They seem to fit contextually and account for a lot of the realities we see in history, such as the fact that ruling elites tend to be fairer-skinned than lower-class people, the universal connotations of whiteness/blackness with light/darkness and good/evil, the fact that dark-skinned people have historically tended to be relatively isolated and mired in paganism, etc.

It doesn’t help to say that Allah wouldn’t put a curse on an entire people, since He is not beholden to our subjective standards, and He has infinite knowledge of intention, whether past, present, and future. Perhaps, per the Bible, the sins of one’s forefathers can be spiritually transmitted to offspring and “contaminate” them, even such actions as swearing etc., so that one sin, especially if unaddressed, contaminates an entire lineage for thousands of years, manifesting in signs such as social status, wealth or lack thereof, physical appearance, disability, etc.

This might explain why, for instance, Native Americans have been brutally enslaved, abused, poisoned, raped, and even killed as children, since this might be a result of their being “curse,” according to the data presented above, and even among the offspring of Sam few people showed up to aid the Ahl’ al-Bayt, so if even most Shia are going to spend time (eternity?) in Hell, then no one else seems to have a real chance.

I’m sorry if I sound racist, but these issues are tormenting me, and I have high-functioning autism, Asperger’s syndrome to be precise. Even Iranian sources report that people with Asperger’s tend to be antisocial, which may explain why NWO types like Mark Zuckerberg try to patronise them, as he and his big-tech ilk do sexual deviants, disabled people, et al.

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"Lanza Was Mentally Ill, Suffering From Asperger's... People With This Disease Hate The Society Around Them"

"[Yet] another important point that some American websites mentioned was that Lanza was mentally ill, suffering from Asperger's, a communication [disability]; people with this disease hate the society around them [emphasis in original].

"Someone with this disease isn't interested in forming a relationship with society; he is indifferent to [others'] suffering, and sometimes is even interested [in it].

Source

Edited by Northwest
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On 10/15/2020 at 12:30 PM, Northwest said:

@Ali_Hussain @El Cid

For example, hadith bearing a weak chain of narrators are not necessarily wrong. 

 

Ofcourse it means it's wrong. Any hadith which goes against Mainstream hadith beliefs and the Quran is wrong. For example this is what the Quran says about racism:

"O people, your Lord is one and your father Adam is one. There is no favor of an Arab over a foreigner, nor a foreigner over an Arab, and neither white skin over black skin, nor black skin over white skin, except by righteousness. Have I not delivered the message?"

This is what our Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) said about racism:

“O’ Mankind! Surely Allah has removed the pride and conceit that existed within you during the days of Ignorance in relation to your fore-fathers. Surely all of you are from (Prophet) Adam and Adam was (created) from mud. Surely the best servant of Allah is that servant who has consciousness of Him.” Sirah bin Hisham, Volume 2, Page 412; al-Kafi, Volume 8, Page 246.

He(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) also said Who ever has a mustard seed amount of racism in his heart cannot enter Heaven.

On 10/15/2020 at 12:30 PM, Northwest said:

 

I’m sorry if I sound racist, but these issues are tormenting me, and I have high-functioning autism, Asperger’s syndrome to be precise. Even Iranian sources report that people with Asperger’s tend to be antisocial, which may explain why NWO types like Mark Zuckerberg try to patronise them, as he and his big-tech ilk do sexual deviants, disabled people, et al.

Source

Let me offer you one advice which can help you. It's pretty obvious you aren't here to learn about Islam rather than nitpick. The problem with people like you is that you will remove 99.9% of good things and focus on the 0.01% garbage which may or may not exist. You should perhaps go study a more socially acceptable religion in your setting like Christianity or Judaism or remain agnostic. You're a product of your own society so it's not really your own fault that you have malice in your heart. 

Edited by El Cid
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Ofcourse it means it's wrong. Any hadith which goes against Mainstream hadith beliefs and the Quran is wrong. For example this is what the Quran says about racism: -> Meant to write this is what the Hadith says about racism, wrote Quran instead. * Can't edit. 

Wasalam.

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