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In the Name of God بسم الله

Kurds And Jinn

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Just now, El Cid said:

I'm sorry my brother but I can't take a video called "Dragon bloodlines and the Serprent seed" very seriously. It reeks of David Icke. I'll just say Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) knows best and leave it at that.

Iblis has bloodlines in the Quran. Dragon is another name for Satan. Try to have an open mind brother. Serpent seed is also a term used from the Bible. 

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@Northwest Here is an article that offers some explanations http://www.revivingalislam.com/2010/11/refutation-against-alleged-racist.html?m=1

:blink:

by the way, this text is copy pasted with an introduction by a user on some forum probably who is basically saying "let us not forget what heroes the Kurds have been in Islam and what great Mujahedeen

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Just now, Allah Seeker said:

Iblis has bloodlines in the Quran. Dragon is another name for Satan. Try to have an open mind brother. Serpent seed is also a term used from the Bible. 

That's the first time I'm hearing I must say. Could you show me where it says Iblis(LA) has bloodlines? I'm not being sarcastic or mean. I'm curious now.

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2 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Anyway, there are theories now that Jinn are represented by blue eyes and blonde individuals, or that the original ones have these complexions. You can find plenty of info on that in this YouTube channel

Going by this silly logic, my father and brother are jinns  because of the color of their eyes and hair. Also, you got duped into believing the earth is flat by a Christian. Remember that time? Anyway these are conspiracy theories, not facts. They are not and never will be a substitute for knowledge.

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Just now, Allah Seeker said:

by the way dear brother, this guy says a lot of truths worth listening too. 

The only truthful thing that I believe about him is that He was one of the first few people who told the public about the real nature of Jimmy Saville but it's speculated that back then everyone at BBC knew what he was. It was an open secret. David Icke being a member of the media back then also knew. Icke at one point claimed to be the Son of God, the same value figure as Jesus(عليه السلام). Then he was preaching about how religion is just man made meant to control the populace and that every religion steals from one another with the same stories being repeated over and over again. Also the whole reptile people thing. I can't take wisdom from such people. As they say, a defunct clock still tells the right time once a day.

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3 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Going by this silly logic, my father and brother are jinns  because of the color of their eyes and hair. Also, you got duped into believing the earth is flat by a Christian. Remember that time? Anyway these are conspiracy theories, not facts. They are not and never will be a substitute for knowledge.

I'm sorry you had to read and respond to such a thought. Peace be on you, Brother.

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11 minutes ago, El Cid said:

That's the first time I'm hearing I must say. Could you show me where it says Iblis(LA) has bloodlines? I'm not being sarcastic or mean. I'm curious now.

that's very good that you ask for references, of course!

Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them.  Al-'Araf 27

Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you?  Kahf 50

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8 minutes ago, El Cid said:

The only truthful thing that I believe about him is that He was one of the first few people who told the public about the real nature of Jimmy Saville but it's speculated that back then everyone at BBC knew what he was. It was an open secret. David Icke being a member of the media back then also knew. Icke at one point claimed to be the Son of God, the same value figure as Jesus(عليه السلام). Then he was preaching about how religion is just man made meant to control the populace and that every religion steals from one another with the same stories being repeated over and over again. Also the whole reptile people thing. I can't take wisdom from such people. As they say, a defunct clock still tells the right time once a day.

I like to listen to all kinds of people, because even if they some some wrong things, they maybe come up with truths. I listened to his viral London Real interviews when Corona started, and I really liked what he said, and how he said it. He is now talking differently than before, and talks clearly against satanism and that's what I like. He's one of those people who are not Muslim, but still on the right path in my humble opinion. And he seems very courageous.

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13 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Going by this silly logic, my father and brother are jinns  because of the color of their eyes and hair. Also, you got duped into believing the earth is flat by a Christian. Remember that time? Anyway these are conspiracy theories, not facts. They are not and never will be a substitute for knowledge.

Could be. And that is your opinion and your classification of 'knowledge'. Just because Gaius l. Ceasar on Shiachat says so, it does not have to be true. Maybe you are the one who is suffering from a closed mind and silly logic syndromes. And I also have blonde blue eyed individuals in my family, so what? I am not a hater of Jinn myself. What concerns flat earth, that's the reality according Islamic texts and hadiths. So it's the reality according to ALL religions. Wether you like it or not. 

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

I like to listen to all kinds of people, because even if they some some wrong things, they maybe come up with truths. I listened to his viral London Real interviews when Corona started, and I really liked what he said, and how he said it. He is now talking differently than before, and talks clearly against satanism and that's what I like. He's one of those people who are not Muslim, but still on the right path in my humble opinion. And he seems very courageous.

I support your freedom to listen to whomever you want whenever you want. The thing that I look in a man is consistency. A man who changes narratives every year is not someone I'd respect and listen to. However, these conspiracy theories are fun at times to listen to. Who knows what the truth is except Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) so I'll just leave it at that.

Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them -> I know Surah Al Araf and I'm familiar with this line. However, I think "tribe" in this context means the various devils who are associated with Iblis(LA) aka his servants. I don't think it means blood relatives or alludes to that.

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1 minute ago, El Cid said:

I support your freedom to listen to whomever you want whenever you want. The thing that I look in a man is consistency. A man who changes narratives every year is not someone I'd respect and listen to. However, these conspiracy theories are fun at times to listen to. Who knows what the truth is except Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) so I'll just leave it at that.

Indeed, he sees you, he and his tribe, from where you do not see them -> I know Surah Al Araf and I'm familiar with this line. However, I think "tribe" in this context means the various devils who are associated with Iblis(LA) aka his servants. I don't think it means blood relatives or alludes to that.

well if anyone brings evidence and support for their argument, then it's good, regardless of their names. David Icke has generally said some good points that makes me respect me personally.

As for your interpretation of Quran, I am not sure how your Arabic is, but the words used are:

Qabila and Dhureya

I doubt that there is any doubt in these words as being anything other than 'Tribe' and 'Seed' or 'Offspring'

 

For instance, here you will find the use of the root word dh-r-r in the quran, and see how it is almost perfectly unanimous in its understanding 

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=*rr

Do you have any other person or reference who came up with this idea that Qabila or Dhureya is metaphorical for something not related to actual tribe and descendents, or is it your own personal unique idea?

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13 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

Just because Gaius l. Ceasar on Shiachat says so, it does not have to be true. Maybe you are the one who is suffering from a closed mind and silly logic syndromes.

Could be. Then again, just because David Icke said something that appealed to you doesn't make it true.

^ Here's his opinions and views on Islam, just in case somebody decides to believe you. 

I looked up to you before you got involved with believing the conspiracies on YouTube.

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2 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Could be. Then again, just because David Icke said something that appealed to you doesn't make it true.

^ Here's his opinions and views on Islam, just in case somebody decides to believe you. 

I looked up to you before you got involved with believing the conspiracies on YouTube.

don't look up to me, look up to al Ali (the High), who is God!

Everybody has imperfect opinions, and David Icke has both valid and not valid points. I won't waste my time looking for mistakes of a man right now, when it is not directly related to this topic of this thread. And yes, this world is full of conspiracies, according to the Quran. It's just to figure out what the real ones are. And on the way of trying to figure things out, we are likely to be at fault sometimes. Even you can be wrong! Did you know that?

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

well if anyone brings evidence and support for their argument, then it's good, regardless of their names. David Icke has generally said some good points that makes me respect me personally.

As for your interpretation of Quran, I am not sure how your Arabic is, but the words used are:

Qabila and Dhureya

I doubt that there is any doubt in these words as being anything other than 'Tribe' and 'Seed' or 'Offspring'

 

For instance, here you will find the use of the root word dh-r-r in the quran, and see how it is almost perfectly unanimous in its understanding 

http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=*rr

Do you have any other person or reference who came up with this idea that Qabila or Dhureya is metaphorical for something not related to actual tribe and descendents, or is it your own personal unique idea?

It was my personal unique idea. I don't have a huge understanding of Arabic, I have only read the translations and memorized transliterations with the usage of their recitations by Arab speakers. However, the quran is a book of context. Dhureya could/does very well mean Offspring or seed but it could be a case that the offspring is referring to the devils associated with Iblis(LA) who may or may not be his children. The second thing I'd say is my own experience, the only hadith about Iblis having children I've read is this from many years on shiachat. I managed to find it:

But it turns out it was written by a heretic Sufi so I don't really know what the authenticity of this matter is. However, I'll research into this to cure myself of any ignorance. Thank you for your reply and thank you for teaching me something new about the arabic language.

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Just now, El Cid said:

It was my personal unique idea.

fair enough! 

However, I think that almost all scholars would agree that Jinn can reproduce. There are hadiths from ahlulbayt that say how Jinn appear in shape of dogs, snakes, and other animals. So those can reproduce too. and Iblis is a jinn. Maybe skim through this thread for a minute real fast ..

it's my pleasure, and thank you as well! All the best to you and we all need a cure for ignorance. Realities of the end days :) Nobody escapes

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5 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

fair enough! 

However, I think that almost all scholars would agree that Jinn can reproduce. There are hadiths from ahlulbayt that say how Jinn appear in shape of dogs, snakes, and other animals. So those can reproduce too. and Iblis is a jinn. Maybe skim through this thread for a minute real fast ..

it's my pleasure, and thank you as well! All the best to you and we all need a cure for ignorance. Realities of the end days :) Nobody escapes

those hadiths about the jinn are in shia narrations too?

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2 minutes ago, Lion of Shia said:

those hadiths about the jinn are in shia narrations too?

yes i remember reading them in Kafi Volume 8 .. the ones saying that a dog who is plain colored is a jinn, and if it is spotted i think it's an ins. And many other animals too. Also I remember reading that a Jinn is in charge of the wind, and the whole topic of Jinn is different than most of us think. In any case, it can not be repeated enough that the Quran makes it clear that their mission is just like ours, which means that the good ones are brothers of the ins. But honestly I don't yet quite understand the exact difference of jinn and ins, except the relation to the elements of fire and earth. But have prayed for this knowledge, so according to the rules of Allah, I will find out in sha Allah. If I find out in this life more information, then I will hopefully share it here.

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12 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

And on the way of trying to figure things out, we are likely to be at fault sometimes. Even you can be wrong! Did you know that?

Of course I know that, however I don't do what you did and are doing  right now. You cannot take a conspiracy theory as fact, which is what you did with the Flat Earth nonsense.

And if you think you're going to promote this Luciferian bloodline theory from Icke as proof that Kurds are half-human and half-jinn hybrids, then you are a fool and a racist. Conspiracy theories are fun to read on occasion, but taking them seriously or believing them is a waste of time and can lead to kufr.

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30 minutes ago, El Cid said:

It was my personal unique idea. I don't have a huge understanding of Arabic, I have only read the translations and memorized transliterations with the usage of their recitations by Arab speakers. However, the quran is a book of context. Dhureya could/does very well mean Offspring or seed but it could be a case that the offspring is referring to the devils associated with Iblis(LA) who may or may not be his children. The second thing I'd say is my own experience, the only hadith about Iblis having children I've read is this from many years on shiachat. I managed to find it:

But it turns out it was written by a heretic Sufi so I don't really know what the authenticity of this matter is. However, I'll research into this to cure myself of any ignorance. Thank you for your reply and thank you for teaching me something new about the arabic language.

here by the way is a hadith from Al Kafi Volume 1 that I just bumped into, that shows how Jinn are actually "people" ..

 

H 1024, Ch. 98, h 2

Ali ibn Muhammad has narrated from Sahl ibn Ziyad from Ali ibn Hassa’n from Ibrahim ibn ’Isma‘il from ibn Jabal who has said the following:

“Once we were in front of the door of the house of abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, when a people who looked like Indian gypsies came out with loin cloth and covering on them. We asked abu ‘Abd Allah, recipient of divine supreme covenant, about them and he said, ‘They were your brethren from Jinns.’”

 

they probably also reproduce and inter-marry just like other Jinn do , including iblis. Why would Iblis not reproduce, if other Jinn do?

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9 minutes ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

Of course I know that, however I don't do what you did and are doing  right now. You cannot take a conspiracy theory as fact, which is what you did with the Flat Earth nonsense.

And if you think you're going to promote this Luciferian bloodline theory from Icke as proof that Kurds are half-human and half-jinn hybrids, then you are a fool and a racist. Conspiracy theories are fun to read on occasion, but taking them seriously or believing them is a waste of time and can lead to kufr.

debating with you is useless for me, not only because our intelligence is on a totally different level (God knows which one of us is more intelligent), but you also tend to get rude when I disagree with you, as evident in your previous post. So you can just stick to your beliefs and I stick to mine.

And another thing that I've noticed is that you don't even understand what I am saying most of the time, like claiming that I am actually using David Icke as a reference here! That just shows even more how useless a conversation between the two of us is in certain topics.

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37 minutes ago, Lion of Shia said:

those hadiths about the jinn are in shia narrations too?

Kafi Volume 6

 

H 12741, Ch. 12, h 7 A number of our people have narrated from Ahmad ibn Muhammad from and Muhammad ibn Yahya from ‘Abd Allah ibn Muhammad from Ali ibn al-Hakam from Aban from Zurarah who has said the following: “One of the two Imam, (abu Ja‘far or abu ‘Abd Allah), ‘Alayhim al-Salam, has said that dogs of one color, all black are from Jinn.’

H 12744, Ch. 12, h 10 Muhammad ibn Yahya has narrated from Muhammad ibn al-Husayn from ‘Abd al-Rahman ibn abu Hashim from Salim ibn abu Salmah who has said the following: “Once abu ‘Abd Allah, ‘Alayhi al-Salam, was asked about dogs. He (the Imam) said, ‘Every dog of one color, all black or all red or all white is a creature of Jinn in the form of dog; but that of spotted colors is a metamorphosed of Jinn and man.’

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Kafi Volume 8

H 14456 – Ali Bin Ibrahim, from his father, from Amro Bin Usman, from Ali Bin Isa, from an

unbroken chain.

O Musa! Be generous to the beggar when he comes to you by beautiful words, or giving easily because he may have come to you from neither from the humans nor from the Jinn. The Angels of the Beneficent come to test you

 

.. so this means Jinn and Ins come and beg? Our understanding of Jinn is totally twisted and wrong. Jinn are just like us, and we are all probably partly Jinn through inter marriage. There are just some tribes that are more pure jinn and others that are more pure ins. The angel part is a bit confusing for me though. That can be discussed in a different section in sha Allah.

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And for anybody who thinks it is "racist" to call somebody a Jinn, be informed that there are good Jinn and bad Jinn .. just like good Ins and bad ins. Being a Jinn is no insult.

Say, "It has been revealed to me that a group of the jinn listened and said, 'Indeed, we have heard an amazing Qur'an. Jinn:1

It guides to the right course, and we have believed in it. And we will never associate with our Lord anyone. Jinn:2

...

And among us are the righteous, and among us are not so; we were divided ways. Jinn:11

..

And among us are Muslims, and among us are the unjust. And whoever has become Muslim - those have sought out the right course. Jinn:14

 

 

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20 minutes ago, Allah Seeker said:

debating with you is useless for me, not only because our intelligence is on a totally different level (God knows which one of us is more intelligent), but you also tend to get rude when I disagree with you,

What you were implying is racist and foolish, I'm not here to debate you, I'm telling you. There was never debate between us in the first place. If you want to believe Kurds are sons of Jinns, go ahead but don't be surprised if you upset Kurdish members here. The guy who started this thread is Kurdish and he was thinking of leaving Islam because of the hadith.

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1 minute ago, Gaius I. Caesar said:

What you were implying is racist and foolish, I'm not here to debate you, I'm telling you. There was never debate between us in the first place. If you want to believe Kurds are sons of Jinns, go ahead but don't be surprised if you upset Kurdish members here. The guy who started this thread is Kurdish and he was thinking of leaving Islam because of the hadith.

that's your opinion, and I've got mine.

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@Gaius I. Caesar you see, the difference between you and me is that I actually study Islamic texts (as well as other non Islamic ones) to make up my opinion, as you can see above and below, there is nothing wrong with being a Jinn!

H 1023, Ch. 98, h 1

Certain persons of our people have narrated from Muhammad ibn Ali from Yahya ibn Musawir from Sa‘d al-Askaf who has said the following:

“On one of the occasions of my meeting with abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, when I went to see him he asked me to wait. I waited until the sun became very hot on me. I tried to follow the shadow for cover against the sun. Not very long thereafter a people came out of his presence that looked like locusts dressed in large gowns and very pale and slim due to extensive worshipping. Their beautiful scene made me forget my trouble. When I went in the presence of the Imam he said, ‘I am afraid I caused you hardships.’ I said, ‘Yes, it was difficult but, by Allah, I forgot other things when I saw them. A people passed by, the like of whose beauty I had not seen before. They looked like locusts and pale and slim due to worshipping a great deal.’

“The Imam said, ‘O Sa‘d, did you see them?’ I said, ‘Yes, I saw them.’ The Imam said, ‘They are your brethren from Jinns.’ I (the narrator) asked the Imam, ‘Do they come to you?’ He said, ‘Yes, they come to us for religious instructions and to learn the lawful and unlawful matters.’”

 

H 1025, Ch. 98, h 3

Ahmad ibn Idris and Muhammad ibn Yahya have narrated from al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Kufiy from ibn al-Faddal from certain persons of our people from Sa‘d al- Askaf who has said the following:

“Once I went to ask permission to meet abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant. I found saddles of camels lined up in front of the door and noises coming very loud and then a people came out with turbans like those of the Indian gypsies. I asked abu Ja‘far, recipient of divine supreme covenant, about them and said, ‘May Allah keep my soul in service for your cause; today it took a long time to receive permission to meet you. I saw a people coming out with turbans whom I could not recognize.’ He asked, ‘Do you know, O Sa‘d, who they were?’ I said, ‘No, I do not know.’ The Imam said, ‘They were your brethren in religion from Jinns. They come to us for religious instructions, to learn the lawful and unlawful matters and the principles of their religion.’”

 

I really wonder if you will admit it now that I proved from the Quran and Hadiths that being a Jinn is nothing bad! And do you think our "brethren" don't reproduce?? Who is the foolish one now dear brother?

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@Gaius I. Caesar let me add as you started with the attacking me on a personal level, that YOU are being the racist one by portraying Jinn as an insult. In this way you are insulting a whole race. 

And the original poster of this thread @Al Khidr likewise suffers from ignorance that can be cured by reading the Quran for starters. How about you both start with surat Jinn that I already quoted above!

 

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6 minutes ago, Cool said:

So what about the Kurdish DNA? Do they have something different from what normal humans have in their DNA's? 

they have unique DNA and other features, but it's hard to tell because of a coverup and inter-marriage. The term human isn't actually accurate, as that word comes from the root word homo, which means man. And there are men among the Jinn. The terms are Ins and Jinn. These two words usually occur in tandem in the Quran and in the hadiths. 

The bible talks about the first inter marriage. and the abandoned gospel of Enoch also goes into it. That is when the inter marriage first began, and after the flood supposedly some Jinn survived and probably hybrids too. But from my understanding, Jinn and Ins both look like people. It's a bit like Lord of the Rings. Different races but we all have more in common than not.

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the word HUMAN comes from HOMO = MAN

therefore, according to the Quran, Jinn are also HUMAN

And there were men from ins who sought refuge in men from the jinn. Jinn:6

 

wikipedia on "human" page

Quote

The English word "human" is a Middle English loanword from Old French humain, ultimately from Latin hūmānus, the adjectival form of homō ("man").

 

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1 minute ago, Allah Seeker said:

that's your opinion, and I've got mine.

There is no room for our personal opinions on this matter

Quote

 O people, your Lord is One and your father is one. You all are from Adam and Adam was created from dust. “The best of you to Allah is the most Almighty Allah–fearing. 49/13” Except by means of piety, no Arab person is preferred to a non-Arab. 

^ From the Farewell Sermon, Kurds are from Adam (عليه السلام) too. 

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Just now, Gaius I. Caesar said:

There is no room for our personal opinions on this matter

if our opinions clash, then one of ours is wrong. And you are not God! 

Quote

^ From the Farewell Sermon, Kurds are from Adam (عليه السلام) too. 

It takes one inter marriage, and that Jinn is from Adam. And you still wont admit that you were the racist one by acting like calling someone a Jinn was an insult? Don't you think that if a Jinn was reading your post, he/she would be insulted? And you still think that after reading the above posts that Jinn can reproduce? Let's see if you are arrogant or humble

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I wanted to know more about these hadiths, a few months ago i came across an article that had a bunch of hadiths like this.

I couldn't find that article but many hadiths have been quoted here.

I checked from Mirat-ul-uqool hadith that mentions Sindhi as brainless was graded as weak.

Could it be that they are kufv of each other only?

 

Edited by Syed Ali Mehdi Shah Naqvi
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On 12/14/2010 at 4:41 AM, guest 34193 said:

salaam,

The narrations I've seen on this all go back to a single individual, Abu 'r-Rabi` Khalid b. Awfa ash-Shami, for whom (if we are to apply the strictest criteria) there is no clear tawthiq. Thus, if so this would make him unknown (majhool) and therefore the chains of these narrations weak (da`if). So no need to worry about this and think you might leave your faith over it.

How much hadiths of Mathab e Shia gets weakened by this criteria?

How much of your aqaid will survive if you apply this criteria?

Its dis-honesty to be lenient with hadiths when authenticating them just because they favor us, but if they don't we apply some hardest rules to weaken them.

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