Going Out In Muharram- Yes Or No?

[Sadiq M...]

That is a valid question in that the exceptions on this seem geared towards men's clothing (e.g. a turban) which raises the question as to whether they are directed to men only or are they general. I don't have the answer to that (though the color of abayas and chadors nowadays is irrelevant to figuring that out)

In all honesty I would rather have my wife wear a black scarf and abaya instead of a colourful one when she goes to university, as I feel colourful clothing tends to lead to an increased sense of attraction from onlookers, and is unnecessary.

On a more Islamic point, I find it interesting you claim black has nothing to do with mourning, as I was under the impression it was, after seeing so many scholars don the black thawb in Muharram as well as the fact that the abaya and chador come in default black. Bizarre.

You've answered your own question. The reason we'd not have role models for that is simply because women are not supposed to be in such a role.

Yes, in an utopian ideal society I can agree with you, but, just to give you a quick reality check, we're yet to live in one. The fact is that women are embracing the public life because the societies we live in require them to. There is no society on the earth yet that is established in such a way that women are not needed to engage with others publicly, be it from the Amazon rainforest to the seminary's in Najaf. So let's be a bit pragmatic here rather than idealistic.

[kadhim]

You've answered your own question. The reason we'd not have role models for that is simply because women are not supposed to be in such a role.

Yes, the story of Fatimah's meek and quiet resting in her home in response to the loss of Fadak and Zainab's silence and demureness in Kufa and Damascus are powerful lessons in this regard that all women should learn from. Ahsant.

Edited December 7, 2010 by kadhim

[Psychopath]

^Well said.

[guest 34193]

^Well said.

Not really, since it's trying to extract a general principle from what were obviously very extreme circumstances, while ignoring the clear teachings that the Ma`sumeen (as) have given us on these things. It's also missing the point of part of the tragedy of Karbala, that being that the women were humiliated by being forced out like that. I'm not arguing women ought to weaklings who are incapable of standing their ground when need be, but there's a difference between that and then stating that women should purposely take on very public roles in their regular day to day lives. While kadhim has as usual tried to avoid the clear meaning of the hadiths (due to their incompatibility with his modernist beliefs) given in the thread about women and prayer at the masjids, just read this yourself and ask what message do you think they're really giving here:

[6431] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä åÔÇã Èä ÓÇáã ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ÕáÇÉ ÇáãÑÃÉ Ýí ãÎÏÚåÇ ÃÝÖá ãä ÕáÇÊåÇ Ýí ÈíÊåÇ ¡ æÕáÇÊåÇ Ýí ÈíÊåÇ ÃÝÖá ãä ÕáÇÊåÇ Ýí ÇáÏÇÑ.

1 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn by his isnad from Hisham b. Salim from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: The salat of the woman in her chamber (fii mikhda`iha) is better than her salat in her house (fii baytiha), and her salat in her house is better than her salat in the dar.

Just because we live in a consumerist era that places the pursuit of money and career above that religion doesn't mean we should try to reshape the latter to fit into the ideals of these times.

Seriously, could you guys actually read what the Imams (as) said about these things and stop trying to insert whatever fluff is getting peddled out there to make self-hating Muslims feel better about themselves?

[kadhim]

Why is it so difficult for you to recognize the social changes of the past 1200 years, that these changes have an impact?

It's amazing that you seem so insistent on refusing to acknowledge that women's gains in education change the picture.

50+ % of college grads are women and that changes nothing.

Wow.

It's pathological.

Yes. Let's look carefully at any strong warnings that were given at a specific time period. Let's try to understand why these warnings were made in their context. Let's try to figure out what, if any general guidance we can take in terms of where women should be careful in their involvement in the public sphere.

But if you think the clock is going to turn back at this point. frankly, this is delusional.

There will be moves by certain groups of women to figure out ways to use technology to be involved in the public conversation and struggle while staying at home with family, but at this point they're not going to retreat en masse back to being domestics who never go outside. This is a non-starter proposition.

Edited December 7, 2010 by kadhim

[Gypsy]

(salam)

I think you better send your question to a marja. He should be able to answer your question.

Meanwhile,

The ladies from the Family of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) like Sayyida Fatima (sa), Sayyida Khadija (sa) and Sayyida Zayneb (sa) should be your role model at all time. And just because they are not with you today, doesn't mean they are irrelevant to the modern life.

Furthermore, if your mother is religious, pious and with good akhlak then she automatically become your role model.

Good people (among men and women) do exist in today's world. One great woman was Bint al Hoda (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bint_al-Huda) who was killed by Saddam (LA)

[Haji 2003]

On 12/7/2010 at 11:11 AM, Sadiq M... said:

The fact is that women are embracing the public life because the societies we live in require them to. There is no society on the earth yet that is established in such a way that women are not needed to engage with others publicly, be it from the Amazon rainforest to the seminary's in Najaf. So let's be a bit pragmatic here rather than idealistic.

The extent to which people engage is, to some extent, under their own control. It does not have to happen. I contend that people can organise their family finances in such a way that the female does not have to work. The fact that many do, is often due to a desire to pursue a certain lifestyle.

I'd actually argue that in societies where many people do this, it actually works against them!

Imagine a society where only a husband worked, and a small proportion of women. With overall lower household income, people just would not be able to afford high mortgages! Who loses? Property owners & capitalists! Because prices have to come down to what people can afford. From the point of view of ordinary people women working has become a zero sum game - ordinary people are NO better off.

Moreover if you look at the reality of women's 'emancipation' in many societies, it is 'careers' characterised by relatively low pay and discrimination, with social and personal consequences that impact on their families.

On the other side of the coin are those people who challenge further emancipation and who argue that it is not fair on male workers (or employers) that a section of the workforce take time off and yet do not 'pay' for the consequences.

I agree that women should have the ability/right to realise their potential - my concern is that the reality of women's employment (for the majority of women) does not do that and instead it exploits them and their families.

[_JuGNii]

(bismillah)

i doubt the celebration should even be taking place.. i mean personally couple of years back my birthday was during Muharram.. i mean late Muharram and i dint celebrate it (am a sad git newayz so i hardly celebrate ) and on the point of house bound.. umm shouldnt buy nething new intill after the first atleast 9-12 days as far as i know.. but i mean u can go window shopping right :unsure:

otherwise many more knowledgable ppl arnd,.. thy'll kno better! :)

:yaali:

[Orion]

.. but i mean u can go window shopping right :unsure:

(bismillah)

The days of mourning for Imam Hussain (as) are spent as if someone has died in your own family. Will you go window shopping if someone has passed away in your family?????

We have the whole year to do whatever we want. Cant we stop ourselves for a few days?

[_JuGNii]

^^ ofcourse it is.. I am talking about the point lets say for example I go to college.. My college is in town.. I have lunch long break.. I go in town fr food etc.. While in town I walk around I look at stuff thru the windows etc .. Ain't tht wats called window shopping..?! The fact tht u can't close ur eyes.. I mean I m happily ready to be house bound since I hardly go shoppin etc cozni don't lyk it.. But sum ppl don't lyk the fact bout bein house bound.. N tgts way I meant..

U tell the solution if u hav one..?! :unsure:

[Imtiaz_Hyder]

Salamunalaikum

I've seen no proof of any of this, other than `Ashura itself being a day of mourning. (In the process now of translating a work of Shaykh Mufid (ar) that goes over the occasions of different events throughout the year, for Muharram he only lists the tenth as a day of mourning. The days prior to it, i.e. the first, third, fifth, seventh and ninth, are days commemorating good events in fact, e.g. the first being the day the appeal of Zakariyya (as) was answered).

But then there was something good which happened on the 10th of Moharram Ashura and If I am not wrong(someone can correct me) its about the earth being laid or something, then we shouldnt mourn on this day as well.

Its strange that why should we talk about restricting ourselves to mourning on so and so day and calling it nonsense, rituals, customs etc (sad to see such comments from someone like Marbles). All this should be natural and not be pre planned to mourn or not to mourn on selective days (ofcourse excluding the auspicious days of the birth of Prophets(PBUT) and Imams(as) and other happy occassions)

And about wearing of black and dark color clothes, its again a mark of respect and a way to express the feeling of sadness. If some other colorful dress like pink, yellow or any other jazzy clothes are worn then that feeling of sadness cannot be aroused

Walaikumassalam

[syeda zimish batool]

ASSALAM U ALIKUM.............

i jxt ask u one thing.....wat is important in front of u.....ur frend or MOAHARRAM UL HARAM...............????

[layman]

Salam,

The Ashoora will remind ourselves to get closer to the Current Imam (as) and to renew our commitment to him (as) and how to move forward so that the Greatest sacrifice by Hussain (as) and his followers are not in vain. What good is the mourning if no forward actions????

Layman

"Every day is Ashoora and every place is Karbala"

[MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT]

5. Imam Abu Abdullahasws (Al Sadiq) said:

O Zurarah! The heavens cried for forty days with blood (weeping) over Imam Hussainasws ; the earth cried for forty days by being covered with darkness; the sun cried for forty days by being in eclipse and turning red; the mountains were torn apart and dispersed; the seas gushed out and the angles cried for forty days over himasws.

(After Imam Hussainasws Shahadat) all of our Women stopped dying their hair, using kohl, applying oil, and styling their hair until the head of Ubaydallah ibn Ziyadla was sent to us; and even after that we (all) continued to weep over himasws.

Reference: Kamil uz Ziaraat Chapter 26, H.6

[phoenix]

But it doesn't extend to the month of Rabi ul awwal at all. It's a desi Shia Lucknawi nonsense from the old days. What is more disturbing are the customs and rituals associated specifically among Urdu speaking Shia folks here. Retard I say.

You be the one who speak nonsense. Since when did mourning for the Ahl al Bayt (as) and not indulging in material pleasures, both highly recommended acts and acts of tawalla, become Haram and a sign of one not in their senses? Even the Arabs - and I speak about the Shi`as in Makkah and Madinah - observe till the eighth of Rabi` al Awwal, not just the Lucknowis (or Indians).

Besides what Socrates stated, my personal outlook towards people extending the days of mourning to the first eight days of the month of Rabi` al Awwal was/is that the families of the Imams passed their days in intense grief since the tenth of MuHarram, not smiling and not even going about their daily routine, till the ninth of the month of Rabi` al Awwal in the year when Mukhtar presented the heads of the murderers to the fourth Imam عليه السلام.

From the tragedy of Karbala in 61 AH till this day, the family members of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)had continuously mourned and grieved the martyrdom of Imam Hussain (as)

Obviously it is not possible to have that span of time fit within a single year, so as to observe a period of mourning for that duration, hence the period in between came to observed as such.

I am not even a Lucknowite or someone adhering to cultural practices.

Also, would you kindly enlighten about some of those rituals that render them retards?

The days prior to it, i.e. the first, third, fifth, seventh and ninth, are days commemorating good events in fact, e.g. the first being the day the appeal of Zakariyya (as) was answered).

And we see, how in the Amali of al Saduq (ar), there are traditions conflicting with what he mentions about other Prophets (not talking about the first).

It's isn't common sense, it's a cultural practice that you've gotten used to. In China and India (amongst Hindus) for instance, white is the color of mourning so to them it might seem like "common sense" to wear white in such an occasion.

Why is the wearing of the white as a dress of mourning the one cultural tradition that the Muslims of the Indian subcontinent not adopt? Tying of the red thread to the shrines and wearing it on their hands (other colours too), not allowing folks in najasah near food they had done nadhr for nor allowing them to prepare or touch such food and so on and so forth… they clung on to every cultural practice but decided to forgo dress sense specifically? Yeah?

As to black though, as I said we have a number of riwaya that condemn this calling it the clothing of the people of the Hellfire, the clothing of Fir`awn, the clothing of the enemies of Allah:

http://www.tashayyu..../black-clothing

And Farsi and Sanskrit are languages of the people of the Fire...

Edited December 9, 2010 by phoenix

[sk00n]

None of these things like going to birthdays, weddings, watching movies etc is haram during Muharram or Safar (except Ashura)

but they say you're supposed to love the Ahlulbayt more than your parents, and God Forbid if a parent of mine dies, would I even think about these things or plan anyhing in advance?

Would I take the time out of my day to wear make-up and matching outfits?

Till the 8th of Rabbi ul Awwal, we wear black, don't even make any expensive purchases (unless if its for religious purposes like recording majalis etc), we sleep on the floor, eat simple food- well, mostly we live on tabarruk lol, avoid anything that would be an obvious source of "fun" or "comfort"... stuff like that.

[Guest Batool]

My mums birthday is in muharam is it ok if we don't celebrate it or sing but go out for dinner and give her a present 

 

[notme]

1 hour ago, Guest Batool said:

My mums birthday is in muharam is it ok if we don't celebrate it or sing but go out for dinner and give her a present 

 

It's not haram, even to celebrate.  It's just socially not accepted for Shia.  

In my household, we have movable birthday observances.  

[Irfani313]

2 hours ago, Guest Batool said:

My mums birthday is in muharam is it ok if we don't celebrate it or sing but go out for dinner and give her a present 

 

You are asking it because you love your mom. Making your mom happy is an act of worship itself.

I’m 100% sure you love Imam Hussain and Sayeda Zaynab AS more than your mom. I’m also 100% sure your mom loves Ali Al-Asghar and Sayeda Sakina AS more than she loves you. Why am I so sure because this is how it should be according to one of the saying of our Holy Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)). 
 

Here are all of your answers about this:

https://www.al-islam.org/ask/topics/1799/questions-about-Muharram
 

In our family we just switch to Islamic birthdays of each other in the months of Muharram and Safar. 

[Guest Is simple makeup allowed]

On 12/6/2010 at 10:37 AM, Orion said:

(bismillah)

From 1st of Moharram till 8th of Rabi al Awwal are the days of mourning. All leisure activities like watching movies, attending birthday parties, weddings, vacation trips, shopping for non-essential things, starting a new project, giving gifts, etc are not done. Women dont wear jewelery and avoid makeup. Red, pink, golden and other fancy clothing that reflect happiness are avoided. In short, you spend these days as if a dear one has died in the family.

WS

I just wanted to know if simple makeup is allowed like if you have marks or dark spots simple foundation nothing more than that. 

[Guest Guest]

 

19 hours ago, Guest Is simple makeup allowed said:

I just wanted to know if simple makeup is allowed like if you have marks or dark spots simple foundation nothing more than that. 

I think these decisions are a bit personal. I personally think simple makeup just to make yourself a bit more presentable shouldn't be a problem. But avoid absolutely everything on 10th and 9th as well if possible

[Hameedeh]

20 hours ago, Guest Is simple makeup allowed said:

I just wanted to know if simple makeup is allowed like if you have marks or dark spots simple foundation nothing more than that. 

Salam. Marks, dark spots, scars are all badges of honor. You have earned them while living. Don't stress.

53 minutes ago, Guest Guest said:

I think these decisions are a bit personal. I personally think simple makeup just to make yourself a bit more presentable shouldn't be a problem. 

Perhaps you haven't read the whole topic. When a woman is in iddah after her husband's death, she doesn't wear makeup or color her hair for at least three months. Some women extend it to a whole year, although that is extreme and unnecessary.

Not wearing makeup during the Holy Month of Muharram is not a hardship. The hardship would be washing the makeup off every time you need to do your daily prayers. 

[Abu Hassanain]

On 12/7/2010 at 7:38 AM, guest 34193 said:

It's because the way you stated above made it sound as though that is actually what the religion teaches. I've seen no proof of any of this, other than `Ashura itself being a day of mourning. (In the process now of translating a work of Shaykh Mufid (ar) that goes over the occasions of different events throughout the year, for Muharram he only lists the tenth as a day of mourning. The days prior to it, i.e. the first, third, fifth, seventh and ninth, are days commemorating good events in fact, e.g. the first being the day the appeal of Zakariyya (عليه السلام) was answered).

I've also seen no proof of this either. In fact, in the ahadith wearing black other than in one's turban, cloak and khuff is condemned.

Salam

there is narration from Imam Khadhim as never did I see my father (imam Sadiq as) in Muharram and Safar but that he wore black 

the implication is he wore black til after Rasul Allah sawa shahdat 

[Abu Hassanain]

22 hours ago, Hameedeh said:

Salam. Marks, dark spots, scars are all badges of honor. You have earned them while living. Don't stress.

Perhaps you haven't read the whole topic. When a woman is in iddah after her husband's death, she doesn't wear makeup or color her hair for at least three months. Some women extend it to a whole year, although that is extreme and unnecessary.

Not wearing makeup during the Holy Month of Muharram is not a hardship. The hardship would be washing the makeup off every time you need to do your daily prayers. 

Salam

of the tribes I know (deep Desert culture) even the men wear black everyday for a year, avoid joy and don’t remarry during that time if wife dies . It depends on what people can bear and how they feel about it.
 

The one year is based on the chronic first about one year of maintenance well, you should leave your wife at least a year’s maintenance so she can stay in the house a year and some tribes interpreted that to mean a year of mourning culturally and applied to men as well as women 

If Allah forbid anything happened to my wife, hopefully not anytime soon I would definitely wear black for a year have daily Majalis and Latm and even avoid eating dessert for showing happiness or using the word, happy, etc.

We have a pretty strict culture of mourning for the 68 days here so it wouldn’t be that big of a thing

wallahu Alam