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Abu Bakr The Best Possible Leader?

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Was he truly the most capable and best leader after the Prophet (saw)?

Was there not a single creation amongst them that could have done the job any better than him? If not, then please bring your reason and evidence.

If so, then who was it? And why were they not put in control?

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Was he truly the most capable and best leader after the Prophet (saw)?

Was there not a single creation amongst them that could have done the job any better than him? If not, then please bring your reason and evidence.

If so, then who was it? And why were they not put in control?

surly he was not the most capable one, because there was "the" most capable one, Imam Ali (as).......

Imam Ali (as) had every single quality which would be required for a leader, while the qualities of abu bakr are highly questionable......

for example, based on the reports of Ahl Sunna, abu bakr himself asked people to guide him if he goes astray, but the khalif of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) should not go astray.........

or for example, the respect of the house of Lady Fatima (sa) was broken because of abu bakr.......

not trying to insult Ahl Sunna and their beliefs as i view this as a great sin, but their own books (sahih Muslim) admits that the view of Imam Ali (as) on abu bakr and umar was that they were liars, dishonest and etc etc...

so can a liar and dishonest person be the most suitable for the job?

please see Muslim Book 019, Number 4349

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This is Abubakr's inaugural speech:

“O Men! Here I have been assigned the job of being a ruler over you WHILE I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU. If I do well in my job, help me. IF I DO WRONG, REDRESS ME… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Prophet. But if I disobey God’s command or His Prophet’s, then no obedience is incumbent upon you.”

Muhammad Husein Haykal, The Life of Muhammad [transl. Ismail Ragi A. al-Faruqi] (London, the UK: Shorouk International; 1983), pp. 510-511

Abubakr himself admitted that he was not the best.

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Sallam Alleikom

Only Allah SWT Chooses the Best of people to succeed the Prophet PBUH & to Guide, as for the Perfect Religion, that been Spread by the Best of The Creation of all times (the prophet) requires the Best of People after the Prophet (pbuh)

while history shows Abu Bakr made decisions that are questionable, and Surely the Best of people wouldn't Miss the Prophets Burial to be elected even though Abu Bakr were among of men who Congratulated Imam Ali (as) when he got appointed by the Prophet (pbuh)

and if People choose to follow Other people or Rulers or Successors than What Allah Have Chosen, than that's up to them

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Islam is for Yes or No, It not half in half out........

Anyone who rejects the wilayat of Imam Ali Ibne Abu Talib(as) is an Offender of Rasool(SAWW), & who has rejected the Rasool(SAWW) has rejeted the islam how can he be perfect from the later ones......The Snake had not beaten him without any reason......

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“O Men! Here I have been assigned the job of being a ruler over you WHILE I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU. If I do well in my job, help me. IF I DO WRONG, REDRESS ME… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Prophet. But if I disobey God’s command or His Prophet’s, then no obedience is incumbent upon you.”

Muhammad Husein Haykal, The Life of Muhammad [transl. Ismail Ragi A. al-Faruqi] (London, the UK: Shorouk International; 1983), pp. 510-511

May Allah curse those who oppress the family of the prophet.

May Allah curse the oppressors of Fatima Zahra ÚáíåÇ ÇáÓáÇã

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This is Abubakr's inaugural speech:

“O Men! Here I have been assigned the job of being a ruler over you WHILE I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU. If I do well in my job, help me. IF I DO WRONG, REDRESS ME… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Prophet. But if I disobey God’s command or His Prophet’s, then no obedience is incumbent upon you.”

Muhammad Husein Haykal, The Life of Muhammad [transl. Ismail Ragi A. al-Faruqi] (London, the UK: Shorouk International; 1983), pp. 510-511

Abubakr himself admitted that he was not the best.

well the speech quoted is from secondary source not a primary one, so unless its authenticity is established we can't comment on that, but I could even answer it even if it was proved as authentic.

and for time being here is an authentic narration, regarding the view of hz ali(ra):

bukhari 5.20:Narrated Muhammad bin AlHanafiya: I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

And this narration is mutawattir.

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well the speech quoted is from secondary source not a primary one, so unless its authenticity is established we can't comment on that, but I could even answer it even if it was proved as authentic.

and for time being here is an authentic narration, regarding the view of hz ali(ra):

bukhari 5.20:Narrated Muhammad bin AlHanafiya: I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

And this narration is mutawattir.

Why not look at Ali (as) own words in Nahjul Balaghah to see what he thought about the station of Abu Bakr and his usurping the caliphate.

You guys are such jokers, I swear.

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(salam)

I would think a leader saying he is not the best but will do his best is just being humble...

However, historically there isn't much proof that abu bakr was the best. He just happened to be at that place with umar when they decided the successor.

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This is Abubakr's inaugural speech:

“O Men! Here I have been assigned the job of being a ruler over you WHILE I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU . If I do well in my job, help me. IF I DO WRONG, REDRESS ME… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Prophet. But if I disobey God’s command or His Prophet’s, then no obedience is incumbent upon you.”

Muhammad Husein Haykal, The Life of Muhammad [transl. Ismail Ragi A. al-Faruqi] (London, the UK: Shorouk International; 1983), pp. 510-511

Abubakr himself admitted that he was not the best.

(bismillah)

(salam)

^ Excellent point!

Everyone knows the famous hadith where the Prophet SA told Imam Ali AS: "O Ali, your status with respect to mine is equivalent to the status of Haroun with respect to Musa, except there will be no prophet after me."

I was told there is a hadith in Al-Mostarshed, page 293, in the section about the "Merits of the children of Abi Talib." In that hadith, it is narrated from Abu Bakr that he heard the Holy Prophet SA say:

"Ali's status with me is like my status with Allah Ta'ala."

Obviously, Abu Bakr was not the best leader, because Imam Ali AS was the one who was equivalent in status to the Holy Prophet AS.

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When your hearts are filled with the falsehood, how could Truth enter them.......

Ali(as) The Divider of Heaven & Hell.......The Imam Of Jins & Humans......(Imam Shaafi ra)

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If you argue that indeed he was the best, this raises up more questions.

- How was he the best?

- Why was his relationship with Fatima (as) in such state if he was the best?

- What established him to BE able to lead? His knowledge? His experience? His courage? As far as I am aware, he did not have any particular strength in any of those.

It is abundant that they are afraid to address this topic. Any sane creature does not allow himself to purposely be ruled by someone inferior to him, unless he has no choice.

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This is Abubakr's inaugural speech:

“O Men! Here I have been assigned the job of being a ruler over you WHILE I AM NOT THE BEST AMONG YOU. If I do well in my job, help me. IF I DO WRONG, REDRESS ME… Obey me as long as I obey God and His Prophet. But if I disobey God’s command or His Prophet’s, then no obedience is incumbent upon you.”

Muhammad Husein Haykal, The Life of Muhammad [transl. Ismail Ragi A. al-Faruqi] (London, the UK: Shorouk International; 1983), pp. 510-511

Abubakr himself admitted that he was not the best.

(bismillah)

That is - taqwa.

And here words of mawla Ali (ra) that Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) were best in this nation.

Edited by Lonely warrior

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(bismillah)

That is - taqwa.

And here words of mawla Ali (ra) that Abu Bakr (ra) and Umar (ra) were best in this nation.

Salam

this,

Imam al-Bazzar narrated from Shaqiq that Ali was asked: “Would you not appoint successor for yourself?” He answered: “Prophet (sallalahu alaihin wa ala alihi wa sallam) didn’t appoint anyone as a successor, so (how can) I appoint? If Allah Tabarraka wa Taala would wish good for people, He would gather them (after me) around best from them, as He gathered them around the best one, after prophet”. (al-Heythami in “Majmau zawaid” #14334 said: “Narrated al-Bazzar and narrators from narrators of Sahih, except Ismail ibn Abu Harith, and he’s thiqat”; Hakim narrated similar hadith in “al-Mustadrak” #4467, and he said it’s saheeh, Dhahabi agreed with him).

contradicts with this:

The Sahihayn also have reports narrated by ‘A’isha about her father. She says: “The day the Messenger of Allah took ill, he entered into my house and said, ‘Call in your father and brother so that I write down in favor of Abu Bakr, for Allah and the Muslims will not accept anyone but Abu Bakr.”

But of course, when thousands of hadiths were fabricated, don't be surprised that nothing adds up.

That is - taqwa.

nope, its honesty. He knew he didn't have enough to lead.

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(bismillah)

Yes we can all pull out stuff from our own books to prove what we already believe (circular much?) But can you pull anything undisputed from the books of others authenticating your views and beliefs?

Try that on for size and let me know when you've given up.

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I wonder why zealous Sunnis don't put forth any new arguments. The narration of Imam Ali (as) regarding those two has already been discussed many times on this board and can be easily reconciled with his character. It's really nothing that scares us or cause our doctrine to crumble.

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well the speech quoted is from secondary source not a primary one, so unless its authenticity is established we can't comment on that, but I could even answer it even if it was proved as authentic.

and for time being here is an authentic narration, regarding the view of hz ali(ra):

bukhari 5.20:Narrated Muhammad bin AlHanafiya: I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

And this narration is mutawattir.

Are you sure Imam Ali (as) was "only an ordinary person"? How can that be mutawatir?

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Knowledge:- During the time of three Caliphs, it is clearly mentioned in Books of All sects that it was Imam Ali Ibne Abu Talib(as) who gave his suggestions to All the Three Caliphs regarding Islamic matters as they had no Idea about Goverment & Islam. If he Had Wished he could have abstained from giving his suggestions, but he did it because for the Sake of Islam as he did not wanted mud be thrown on the face of Islam. "Ana Madinatul Ilim Wa Aliyun Babuha"

Relations with Fatima Zehra(sa): No body cannot put a finger on their relations, Till Fatima Zehra(sa) was Alive he did't marry anyone. When he was Giving Gusul to the body of Fatima Zehra(sa) he cried so loudly, no body had seen him crying like this never before, this was when he saw the broken Ribs of Fatima Zehra(sa).

"Maarij an-Nabuwwah" also states that Hazrat Jabreel(a.s.) narrated

the story of the Nikah recited on the Arsh. He said "O Prophet of

Allah(swt), Allah(swt) has chosen you and made you the most respected

and high among his creatures and has selected Ali(a.s.) as your

brother and has decided that the Nikah of your daughter and the

servant of Allah(swt), Fatima(s.a.) would be with Ali(a.s.).

Allah(swt) arranged for their Nikah in such a manner that he addressed

the dwellers of Jannah to dress themselves with ornaments of Jannah

and then ordered all the angels to assemble together on the 4th Sky.

He then filled the 4th sky with Noor and then appointed Hazrat

Adam(a.s.) to recite Khutba to begin the Nikah ceremony. After khutba

of Hazrat Adam(a.s.), Allah(swt) ordered an angel named Raheel to

recite Hamd. Raheel is the most beautiful of angels and possesses the

most beautiful voice. After recitation of Hamd, Allah(swt) informed me

(Jabreel(a.s.)) that He has performed the Nikah of His servant Hazrat

Fatima(s.a.) with His chosen person Imam Ali(a.s.) and that I should

spread this news among the angels. I acted accordingly and made all

the angels testify the event. Allah(swt) then ordered me to write all

this event on this silk cloth of Jannah and present it to you."

After mentioning this event, Prophet Mohammad(sawaw) said "O Abul

Hasan(a.s.), the order of Allah(swt) has been served and I invite you

to come to the mosque so that this Aqd should be formalized on the

earth as well among witnesses."

Such was the importance of this marriage that Allah(swt) arranged the

ceremony on Arsh and then Himself decided and recited the Nikah of

Imam al-Muttaqeen, Ami-ul-momineen Ali ibn-e-Abi Talib(a.s.) with the

leader of the women of this world and in paradise Hazrat Fatima(s.a.).

The above event has been mentioned in various other books as follows:

- Muaraj an-Nabuwwah

- Al asaba fee tameez as-Sahaba

- Sawaeq-e-muharriqa by Ibn-e-Hajr Makki

- Al Bayan wal Bateen by Allam Jaahiz

- Nuzhat-ul-Majalis by Allama Abdur Rehman Safori

- Riyaz un-Nazrah fee Manaqib-ul-Ashra by Allama Muhib Tabri

<< Nikah recited on Earth >>

============================

Prophet Mohammad(sawaw) led Imam Ali(a.s.) into the mosque and asked

him to sell off his armor and present that money to the

Prophet(sawaw). The dress was sold in 400 dirhams according to some

traditions, and the proceeds were presented to the Prophet

Mohammmd(sawaw) who gave them to Hazrat Salman Farsi(a.r.) and Hazrat

Bilal(a.r.) and asked them to buy some articles of use from the

market. They went to the market and bought the following items as

jahez (dowry) of Hazrat Fatima(s.a.)

- Two mattresses made of Egyptian canvas. (One stuffed with fiber and

the other with sheep wool).

- A leather mat.

- A pillow made of skin, filled with palm tree fiber.

- A Khaibarion cloak.

- An animal skin for water.

- Some jugs and jars also for water.

- A pitcher painted with tar.

- A thin curtain made of wool.

- A shirt costing seven (7) dirhams.

- A veil costing four (4) dirhams.

- Black plush cloak.

- A bed embellished with ,ribbon.

- Four cushions made of skin imported from Ta ‘ef stuffed with a good

smelling plant.

- A mat from Hajar.

- A hand-mill.

- A special copper container used for dyestuff

- A pestle for grinding coffee.

- A (water) skin.

When the items of dowry were received, Prophet Mohammad(sawaw) went to

Hazrat Fatima(s.a.) and said "Your Nikah has been recited on the Arsh

by Allah(swt) with my cousin Ali(a.s.) and He(swt) has ordered me to

recite your Nikah on the earth as well. I have gathered my companions

to do so and now seek your agreement and permission to recite this

Nikah." Hearing this, Hazrat Fatima Zahra(s.a.) bowed her head with

shyness which indicated her agreement. The Prophet(sawaw) came out of

her hujra and ordered Hazrat Bilal(a.r.) to gather all Ansaar and

Muhajireen. Once the companions were gathered, Prophet Mohammad(sawaw)

recited Hamd of Allah(swt) and narrated to his companions that

Jibreel(a.s.) had informed him that Allah(swt) has performed the Nikah

of Hazrat Ali(a.s.) with his daughter on the Arsh and has ordered him

to recite the same on the earth as well. He asked Imam Ali(a.s.) to

formally request for the marriage in front of the witnesse. After

reciting greatness of Allah(swt) and presenting his profound gratitude

to him and reciting darood for Prophet Mohammad(sawaw), Imam Ali(a.s.)

formally requested for the marriage. Prophet Mohammad(sawaw) accepted

the request and made all the companions witnesses. Upon hearing this

all the companions greeted Imam Ali(a.s.) and the Prophet(sawaw).

Prophet Mohammad(sawaw) recited the Nikah himself and asked Imam

Ali(a.s.) if he accepted the Nikah for a Mehr of 400 Misqaal of

Silver. Imam Ali(a.s.) accepted and then the Nikah was formally

concluded. Both offered Sajda-e-Shukr to Allah(swt) and all the

companions present there congratulated and greeted both Imam Ali(a.s.)

and the Prophet Mohammad(sawaw).

<< Marriage and move of Hazrat Fatima(s.a.) >>

==============================================

A non-planned period of time elapsed between the nikah and the wedding

ceremony, because Imam Ali(a.s.) was too shy to ask the Prophet to

assign a day for the wedding, while He(sawaw) wanted to protect

Fatima’s pride by refraining from asking Imam Ali(a.s.) to do so.

A month or more passed by before Imam Ali(a.s.) said anything

regarding the wedding. Aqeel (Imam Ali(a.s.)’s brother) asked him

about the reason for the delay in holding the wedding ceremony and

encouraged him to prepare for the wedding and to ask the

Prophet(sawaw) to assign a date for it. Despite Imam Ali(a.s.)’s

shyness, he accompanied Aqeel to the Prophet’s house to fulfill his

wishes. On their way to the Prophet’s house, they met Um Ayman(r.a.)

who, when told the reason for their visit, asked them to leave the

matter to her. She, in turn, informed Um Salama(r.a.) who brought the

matter to the attention of the Prophet(sawaw) who called for Imam

Ali(a.s.) and asked his opinion. Imam Ali(a.s.) expressed his desire

to bring Hazrat Fatima(s.a.) to his home which was donated by one of

his followers. The Prophet(sawaw) asked Imam Ali(a.s.) to hold a

dinner (walima) because Allah(swt) is pleased with those who do so;

for the social good it does-such as bringing people together and

implementing love and harmony among them.

Imam Ali(a.s.) arranged for the dinner and invited the people to the

feast. Men and women from all around Medina gathered in the house.

They ate, drank and even took food to their homes. The blessings of

the Prophet(sawaw) were obvious on that day, for not only the food was

enough to feed everyone, but also it did not decrease at all. The

Prophet(sawaw) asked for food containers to be brought and filled them

and sent them to his wives and left a special container for Hazrat

Fatima(s.a.) and her husband.

By sunset, the wedding night had begun; it was time for Hazrat

Fatima(s.a.) to depart to her new home. Everything went well, for the

Prophet(sawaw) had made all the necessary preparation for the wedding.

Despite the simplicity and modesty of her wedding, Hazrat

Fatima(s.a.)’s marriage ceremony was surrounded by signs of greatness,

excellence, and beauty.

The Messenger of Allah(sawaw) ordered his wives to embellish Hazrat

Fatima(s.a.) before the wedding; they perfumed and dressed her with

jewelry. They all helped her to get ready; some combed her hair while

others embellished and dressed her in the dress brought by Gabriel

from the Paradise. Al-Khateeb Al-Baghdadi in Tareekh Baghdad V.5, P.7,

Al-Hamvini in Durar Al-Simtain, Al-Dhahabi in Mizan Al-Etedal, Garani

in Akhbar Al-Dowal, and Qandouzi in Yanabi’ Al-Mawaddah have narrated

that Ibn Abbas said:

‘When Fatima was taken to Ali’s house on her wedding night, the

Prophet(sawaw) preceded her, Jibraeel was on her right, and Mikaeel on

her left, and seventy thousand angels followed her. These angels

praised and glorified Allah(swt) until dawn!

The Hashemite men, Abdul Muttalib’s daughters, and Muhajarin and

Ansar’s women all accompanied Fatima’s caravan that night. The

Prophet’s wives joyfully led the caravan; they were also the first to

enter the house.

Upon arriving, the Prophet(sawaw) placed Hazrat Fatima(s.a.)’s hand in

Imam Ali(a.s.)’s hand and said:

"May Allah bless his Messenger’s daughter;

Ali, this is Fatima, you are responsible for her (or I entrust her to

you)

Ali, what an excellent wife Fatima is!

Fatima, what an excellent husband Ali is!

O Allah, bless them, bless their lives, and bless their children.

O Allah, surely they are the most beloved to me from among your

creatures, so love them too, and assign for them a guardian.

I place them and their progeny under your protection from the curse

devil."

Strength : Battle of Badr, Ohad, Khyber.....When Prophet (SAWW) was left alone by your Sahaba in the Battle field and were running for their lives, who was there to Guard Prophet(SAWW), who fought there when your Sahaba were busy in Looting the Things left by enemy. When the Command of Muslim Army was given to Imam Ali Ibne Abu Talib(as) then only Khyber was Conquered, The Lifting of the gate of Khyber, The Killing Of Marhab.....

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well the speech quoted is from secondary source not a primary one, so unless its authenticity is established we can't comment on that, but I could even answer it even if it was proved as authentic.

and for time being here is an authentic narration, regarding the view of hz ali(ra):

bukhari 5.20:Narrated Muhammad bin AlHanafiya: I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

And this narration is mutawattir.

In which qualities Abu Bakr was best?

By looking at following hadith from Bukahri it is clear that Abu bakr was neither suitable of leadership nor best in Quran and as a Judge

Volume 8, Book 78, Number 623: shaih al bukhari

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle sent an army detachment and made Usama bin Zaid its commander. Some people criticized (spoke badly of) Usama's leadership. So Allah's Apostle got up saying, "If you people are criticizing Usama's leadership, you have already criticized the leadership of his father before. But Wa-aimullah (i.e., By Allah), he (i.e. Zaid) deserved the leadership, and he was one of the most beloved persons to me; and now this (his son Usama) is one of the dearest persons to me after him." (See Hadith No. 745, Vol. 5)

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 8: sahih al bukhari

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Umar said, "Our best Qur'an reciter is Ubai and our best judge is 'Ali; and in spite of this, we leave some of the statements of Ubai because Ubai says, 'I do not leave anything that I have heard from Allah's Apostle while Allah:

"Whatever verse (Revelations) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We bring a better one or similar to it." (2.106)

Edited by elite

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Are you sure Imam Ali (as) was "only an ordinary person"? How can that be mutawatir?

Well this was his(ra) view, so what i say to it, well or it can be said that he considered the best of sahaba(ra) as hz abubakara(ra) and hz umar(ra) and the rest according to him were ordinary muslims..

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In which qualities Abu Bakr was best?

By looking at following hadith from Bukahri it is clear that Abu bakr was neither suitable of leadership nor best in Quran and as a Judge

Volume 8, Book 78, Number 623: shaih al bukhari

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle sent an army detachment and made Usama bin Zaid its commander. Some people criticized (spoke badly of) Usama's leadership. So Allah's Apostle got up saying, "If you people are criticizing Usama's leadership, you have already criticized the leadership of his father before. But Wa-aimullah (i.e., By Allah), he (i.e. Zaid) deserved the leadership, and he was one of the most beloved persons to me; and now this (his son Usama) is one of the dearest persons to me after him." (See Hadith No. 745, Vol. 5)

lol, do you think this deserves an answer?

And i guess the way you misunderstood this narration, then even usama bin zaid(ra) should have been khaliph.

Anyways i dont think that even such illogical arguments deserves any answers.

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 8: sahih al bukhari

Narrated Ibn Abbas:

Umar said, "Our best Qur'an reciter is Ubai and our best judge is 'Ali; and in spite of this, we leave some of the statements of Ubai because Ubai says, 'I do not leave anything that I have heard from Allah's Apostle while Allah:

"Whatever verse (Revelations) do We abrogate or cause to be forgotten but We bring a better one or similar to it." (2.106)

khaliph is not a judge..they have different responsibilities much more than a judge and hz abubakar(ra) was the best in those :)

That is why you find hz ali(ra) saying in nahjul balagha when people came to give him bayah that i want to remain as a judge, make some one else a khaliph..

Besides look at what Ali RA says when they come to grant him Caliphate after the Martyrdom of Ameer Uthman RA:

Ali says:

"Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief."

NAHJUL BALAGHA: sermon 91.

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Well this was his(ra) view, so what i say to it, well or it can be said that he considered the best of sahaba(ra) as hz abubakara(ra) and hz umar(ra) and the rest according to him were ordinary muslims..

What about this Aisha breastfeeding adult hadiths? Do you think this lie attributed to Prophet (pbuh) by Aisha is true or a fabrication?

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3425: [English Translation]

‘A’isha .. reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle .. and said: Salim has attained (purbety) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him (Breastfeed him) and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

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lol, do you think this deserves an answer?

And i guess the way you misunderstood this narration, then even usama bin zaid(ra) should have been khaliph.

Anyways i dont think that even such illogical arguments deserves any answers.

khaliph is not a judge..they have different responsibilities much more than a judge and hz abubakar(ra) was the best in those :)

That is why you find hz ali(ra) saying in nahjul balagha when people came to give him bayah that i want to remain as a judge, make some one else a khaliph..

Besides look at what Ali RA says when they come to grant him Caliphate after the Martyrdom of Ameer Uthman RA:

Ali says:

"Leave me and seek some one else. We are facing a matter which has (several) faces and colours, which neither hearts can stand nor intelligence can accept. Clouds are hovering over the sky, and faces are not discernible. You should know that if I respond to you I would lead you as I know and would not care about whatever one may say or abuse. If you leave me then I am the same as you are. It is possible I would listen to and obey whomever you make in charge of your affairs. I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief."

NAHJUL BALAGHA: sermon 91.

1). When with the murder of `Uthman the seat of Caliphate became vacant, Muslims began to look at `Ali (p.b.u.h.) whose peaceful conduct, adherence to principles, and politia lacumen had been witnessed by them to a great extent during this long period. Consequently, they rushed for swearing allegiance in the same way as a traveller who had lost his way and catches sight of the objective would have rushed towards it, as the historian at-Tabari (in at-Tarikh, vol .I, pp. 3066, 3067, 3076) records:

People thronged on Amir al-mu'minin and said, "We want to swear allegiance to you and you see what troubles are befalling Islam and how we are being tried about the near ones of the Prophet."

But Amir al-mu'minin declined to accede to their request whereupon these people raised a hue and cry and began to shout loudly, "O' Abu'l-Hasan, do you not witness the ruination of Islam or see the advancing flood of unruliness and mischief? Do you have no fear of Allah?" Even then Amir al-mu'minin showed no readiness to consent because he was noticing that the effects of the atmosphere that had come into being after the Prophet had overcome hearts and minds of the people, selfishness and lust for power had become rooted in them, their thinking affected by materialism and they had become habituated to treating government as the means for securing their ends.

Now they would like to materialise the Divine Caliphate too and play with it. In these circumstances it would be impossible to change the mentalities or turn the direction of temperaments.

In addition to these ideas he had also seen the end in view that these people should get further time to think over so that on frustration of their material ends hereafter they should not say that the allegiance had been sworn by them under a temporary expediency and that thought had not been given to it, just as `Umar's idea was about the first Caliphate, which appears from his statement that:

Abu Bakr's Caliphate came into being without thought but Allah saved us from its mischief. If anyone repeats such an affair you should kill him. (as-Sahih, al-Bukhari, vol 8, pp.210, 211; al-Musnad, Ahmad ibn Hanbal, vol.1, p.55; at-Tabari, vol.1, p.l822; Ibn al-Athir, vol.2, p.327; Ibn Hisham, vol.4, pp.308-309; Ibn Kathir, vol.5, p.246)

In short, when their insistence increased beyond limits, Amir al-mu'minin delivered this sermon wherein he clarified that "If you want me for your worldly ends, then I am not ready to serve as your instrument. Leave me and select someone else who may fulfil your ends. You have seen my past life that I am not prepared to follow anything except the Qur'an and sunnah and would not give up this principle for securing power. If you select someone else I would pay regard to the laws of the state and the constitution as a peaceful citizen should do.

I have not at any stage tried to disrupt the collective existence of the Muslims by inciting revolt. The same will happen now. Rather, just as keeping the common good in view I have hitherto been giving correct advice, I would not grudge doing the same.

If you let me in the same position it would be better for your worldly ends, because in that case I won't have power in my hands so that I could stand in the way of your worldly affairs, and create an impediment against your hearts' wishes. However, if you are determined on swearing allegiance on my hand, bear in mind that if you frown or speak against me I would force you to tread on the path of right, and in the matter of the right I would not care for anyone.

If you want to swear allegiance even at this, you can satisfy your wish."

The impression Amir al-mu'minin had formed about these people is fully corroborated by later events. Consequently, when those who had sworn allegiance with worldly motives did not succeed in their objectives they broke away and rose against his government with baseless allegations.

http://www.balaghah.net/nahj-htm/eng/id/sermons/index.htm

Edited by elite

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lol, don't panic, if you cant stand firm by quoting narrations(without applying them your out of the mind interpretations) then don't dare to quote narrations from our books. Anyways quote fromnahjul balagha was just to add a supportive proof to my answer, otherwise my answer without this sermon too is sufficient to refute the senseless argument raised.

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I am better for you as a counsellor than as chief."

NAHJUL BALAGHA: sermon 91.

Then why did umar the great include Maula Ali in shura?

Maula Ali didn't jump on this opportunity because fools were asking him to be "4th caliph". The shias already acknowledged him as Imam(AS) at ghadeer. Even the cowardly hypocrites(I won't mention their name so as to avoid making SC najis) accepted that but later backtracked. Maula Ali knew that immediately accepting caliphate would provide an excuse to the first lady and the barking dog(that's what muawiya literally means) to bark at him.

well the speech quoted is from secondary source not a primary one, so unless its authenticity is established we can't comment on that, but I could even answer it even if it was proved as authentic.

and for time being here is an authentic narration, regarding the view of hz ali(ra):

bukhari 5.20:Narrated Muhammad bin AlHanafiya: I asked my father (`Ali bin Abi Talib), "Who are the best people after Allah's Apostle ?" He said, "Abu Bakr." I asked, "Who then?" He said, "Then `Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, "Then you?" He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

And this narration is mutawattir.

Yup, that's been the default view of the sunnis for ages(i.e. Ali being an ordinary person). Just like the christians took a U-turn in their history and made some beliefs/practices official/unofficial; similarly the sunni papacy gave the view of "4 rightly guided caliphs" official status much later on.

Hopefully the ignorant shias will wake up and stop befriending these 2 faced snakes.

Dude, like it or not but Maula Ali's excrement is better then the whole sunni ummah put together.

1)Was he truly the most capable and best leader after the Prophet (saw)?

2)Was there not a single creation amongst them that could have done the job any better than him? If not, then please bring your reason and evidence.

3)If so, then who was it? And why were they not put in control?

1)&2) Frankly speaking, by looking through sunni junk alone, one would conclude that Mr. Omar was the best(excluding the few "ahadith" which say bakr is the best, without explaining why).

3) In Shaikh Saduq(RA)'s illal al sharai it's narrated by Imam al Sadiq(AS) that people didn't put Ali(AS) in control because they knew he was much better than anyone, hence they didn't feel comfortable with him and people only feel comfortable with species of their like.

Edited by Birdman

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lol, don't panic, if you cant stand firm by quoting narrations(without applying them your out of the mind interpretations) then don't dare to quote narrations from our books. Anyways quote fromnahjul balagha was just to add a supportive proof to my answer, otherwise my answer without this sermon too is sufficient to refute the senseless argument raised.

Then explain to me the qualities in which Abu Bakr excelled in order for him to be the best "caliph"

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Then explain to me the qualities in which Abu Bakr excelled in order for him to be the best "caliph"

sorry i cant explain to a "shia" nor do i have time for doing that. a great sahabi like hz ali(ra) considered hz abubakar(ra) the best, thats sufficient.

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Salam

this,

Imam al-Bazzar narrated from Shaqiq that Ali was asked: “Would you not appoint successor for yourself?” He answered: “Prophet (sallalahu alaihin wa ala alihi wa sallam) didn’t appoint anyone as a successor, so (how can) I appoint? If Allah Tabarraka wa Taala would wish good for people, He would gather them (after me) around best from them, as He gathered them around the best one, after prophet”. (al-Heythami in “Majmau zawaid” #14334 said: “Narrated al-Bazzar and narrators from narrators of Sahih, except Ismail ibn Abu Harith, and he’s thiqat”; Hakim narrated similar hadith in “al-Mustadrak” #4467, and he said it’s saheeh, Dhahabi agreed with him).

contradicts with this:

The Sahihayn also have reports narrated by ‘A’isha about her father. She says: “The day the Messenger of Allah took ill, he entered into my house and said, ‘Call in your father and brother so that I write down in favor of Abu Bakr, for Allah and the Muslims will not accept anyone but Abu Bakr.”

But of course, when thousands of hadiths were fabricated, don't be surprised that nothing adds up.

nope, its honesty. He knew he didn't have enough to lead.

No contradiction between those two. Because Ali (ra) said what he knew, and Aisha (ra) narrated what she seen.

Edited by Lonely warrior

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But of course, when thousands of hadiths were fabricated, don't be surprised that nothing adds up.

nope, its honesty. He knew he didn't have enough to lead.

No contradiction between those two. Because Ali (ra) said what he knew, and Aisha (ra) narrated what she seen.

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Sorry but to me the Aysha narration seems to have been falsely attributed to her. If this narration was indeed true, why didn't Abu Bakr use this to claim caliphate? Why the need for an election? Why did he tell Umar that he was better fit to being a caliph than himself? Obviously that incident supposedly narrated by Aysha never happened, or else Abu Bakr wouldn't have felt the need to go to saqifa and stop what was happenng there. It would have been sufficient for him to say this narration and put an end to the Ansar.

But as we know, an election happened there, leading one to believe that the prophet (pbuh) NEVER even hinted that Abu Bakr was to lead the Muslims. Its a joke to even think such a thing to me!

Who said that Aisha (ra) narrated that hadith to each and everyone, so all nation including Abu Bakr (ra) was aware about it, right after the death of prophet (pbuh) ?

Secondly Messenger of Allah (pbuh) didn't fulfil that will. He didn't write anything, so even everyone would know that incident, it hardly can be accepted as 101% indication, rather it's only clear hint, among the many of them.

Scholars of sunnah disagree whether Abu Bakr (ra) was clearly appointed or not, but as I know, they agreed that he was appointed by many sayings and hints from messenger (pbuh) .

If that's what Allah swt wanted, and the prophet (pbuh) wrote that, then why did Abu Bakr feel he had to leave the funeral of the prophet (pbuh) so that he can stop the Ansar?

NO ONE from companions left funeral of beloved prophet (pbuh), all of them prayed upon him by groups, and then he was buried.

Of course you are free to accept or to reject this hadith, but don't try to make us believe that there contradiction there.

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What about this Aisha breastfeeding adult hadiths? Do you think this lie attributed to Prophet (pbuh) by Aisha is true or a fabrication?

Sahih Muslim Book 008, Hadith Number 3425: [English Translation]

‘A’isha .. reported that Salim, the freed slave of Abu Hadhaifa, lived with him and his family in their house. She (i. e. the daughter of Suhail came to Allah’s Apostle .. and said: Salim has attained (purbety) as men attain, and he understands what they understand, and he enters our house freely, I, however, perceive that something (rankles) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa, whereupon Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) said to her: Suckle him (Breastfeed him) and you would become unlawful for him, and (the rankling) which Abu Hudhaifa feels in his heart will disappear. She returned and said: So I suckled him, and what (was there) in the heart of Abu Hudhaifa disappeared.

Abul Qasem al-Khui was asked and he answered:

5 ÇáÓÄÇá: ãÇåæ Íßã ÔÑÈ ÍáíÈ ÇáãÑÃÉ ¡ ÓæÇÁ ßÇä ÇáÔÇÑÈ ÒæÌåÇ ¡ Ãã ÔÎÕÇ ÂÎÑ ¿

ÇáÝÊæì: ÇáÎæÆí: áÇ ÈÃÓ ÈÐáß Ýí äÝÓå

Q. What is a ruling upon man on drinking milk of woman, whether the one who drunk her husband or someone else?

A. Nothing wrong with that in itself

See question 5

http://www.almohajery.com/hashemya62/f1/44food1.htm

rada_al_kabir.jpg

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Very interesting Quranic comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FYTTCwvc7o

Companions of Moses:

فَلَمَّا تَرَاءَى الْجَمْعَانِ قَالَ أَصْحَابُ مُوسَىٰ إِنَّا لَمُدْرَكُونَ

قَالَ كَلَّا ۖ إِنَّ مَعِيَ رَبِّي سَيَهْدِينِ

[shakir 26:61] So when the two hosts saw each other, the companions of Musa cried out: Most surely we are being overtaken.

[shakir 26:62] He said: By no means; surely my Lord is with me: He will show me a way out.

But with Abu Bakr, the Companion of the Prophet(pbuh):

إِلَّا تَنْصُرُوهُ فَقَدْ نَصَرَهُ اللَّهُ إِذْ أَخْرَجَهُ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا ثَانِيَ اثْنَيْنِ إِذْ هُمَا فِي الْغَارِ إِذْ يَقُولُ لِصَاحِبِهِ لَا تَحْزَنْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ مَعَنَا ۖ فَأَنْزَلَ اللَّهُ سَكِينَتَهُ عَلَيْهِ وَأَيَّدَهُ بِجُنُودٍ لَمْ تَرَوْهَا وَجَعَلَ كَلِمَةَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا السُّفْلَىٰ ۗ وَكَلِمَةُ اللَّهِ هِيَ الْعُلْيَا ۗ وَاللَّهُ عَزِيزٌ حَكِيمٌ

[shakir 9:40] If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

With the Companions of Moses (pbuh), Moses(pbuh) said, "God is with me."

But with Abu Bakr, Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said, "God is with us."

The Prophet(pbuh) could have said "God is with me" like Moses(pbuh) did, but he specifically said "God is with us" and he does not speak from his hawa.

Thoughts?

w/s

Edited by lotfilms

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[shakir 9:40] If you will not aid him, Allah certainly aided him when those who disbelieved expelled him, he being the second of the two, when they were both in the cave, when he said to his companion: Grieve not, surely Allah is with us. So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him and strengthened him with hosts which you did not see, and made lowest the word of those who disbelieved; and the word of Allah, that is the highest; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Look at what it says, "So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him!!!" Did Allah say He sent the tranquility to Abu Bakr? No of course not, there is only one person mentioned in Allah's response! Nice try though lol.

Edited by haidar al karrar

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Look at what it says, "So Allah sent down His tranquillity upon him!!!" Did Allah say He sent the tranquility to Abu Bakr? No of course not, there is only one person mentioned in Allah's response! Nice try though lol.

Even after such a clear evidence from the Quran you deny the status of syedna Abu bakar Ra? Was not it the best time for Allah to reveal the "reality" of Abu Bakr Ra to Mohamad PBUH? I wonder how the Prophet PBUH took the risk of going into the cave with a "munafiq" (maazAllah)

Try to understand that whats the root cause of all this trouble. The main issue is "Ghulu" exaggeration in the status of human beings which lead us to having extremly high expectations about them but when our rxpectations are countered by the historical record, we end up either rejecting it or doing taweel of that record or saying that "probably he was under taqiyya"

For us sunnies , no human is shari , noone is masoom except syedna Mohamad PBUH so we don'y have much issues interpreting the Quran and hadiths.

Ali ibn Abi Talib said to Zubair: “(Although) we got angry momentarily at the time of consultation (i.e. Saqifah), we can now see that Abu Bakr is the most deserving of the Caliphate: He was the companion of the Messenger of Allah in the cave. We know of his life and we know that the Messenger of Allah had ordered him to lead the prayers.” And then he (Ali) gave his Baya’ah (to Abu Bakr).

(Sharh Nahjul-Balagha; Ibn Abi Al-Hadeed; Vol.1, p.132)

The Sahaba ( may Allah be pleased with them all) were a picture of this verse of Quran and are free of all lies. (no exceptions have been made in this verse by Allah)

مُّحَمَّدٌ رَّسُولُ اللَّهِ وَالَّذِينَ مَعَهُ أَشِدَّاء عَلَى الْكُفَّارِ رُحَمَاء بَيْنَهُمْ تَرَاهُمْ رُكَّعًا سُجَّدًا يَبْتَغُونَ فَضْلًا مِّنَ اللَّهِ وَرِضْوَانًا سِيمَاهُمْ فِي وُجُوهِهِم مِّنْ أَثَرِ السُّجُودِ ذَلِكَ مَثَلُهُمْ فِي التَّوْرَاةِ وَمَثَلُهُمْ فِي الْإِنجِيلِ كَزَرْعٍ أَخْرَجَ شَطْأَهُ فَآزَرَهُ فَاسْتَغْلَظَ فَاسْتَوَى عَلَى سُوقِهِ يُعْجِبُ الزُّرَّاعَ لِيَغِيظَ بِهِمُ الْكُفَّارَ وَعَدَ اللَّهُ الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا وَعَمِلُوا الصَّالِحَاتِ مِنْهُم مَّغْفِرَةً وَأَجْرًا عَظِيمًا
(48:29)

Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward. 48:29

Edited by qalandar_1

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