How Do You Know Islam Is True?

[MysticKnight]

Salam

Here's a question to people. How do you know Islam is true?

I think the sure sign asked for in Quran is about witnessing Rasool's light and spirit. In this lies sureness of Islam.

Aside from this, is there anyway to be sure about Islam? Quran itself is an amazing book, but does it's amazement make people sure about Islam?

Is there any systematic proof aside from the amazement of Quran and witnessing the Spirits of Ahlebayt that could make you sure about Islam?

Looking forward to your thoughts about how you know Islam is the true religion. And how would you go about proving Islam to a non-Muslim?

[Mohammed-W]

Salam

Here's a question to people. How do you know Islam is true?

I think the sure sign asked for in Quran is about witnessing Rasool's light and spirit. In this lies sureness of Islam.

Aside from this, is there anyway to be sure about Islam? Quran itself is an amazing book, but does it's amazement make people sure about Islam?

Is there any systematic proof aside from the amazement of Quran and witnessing the Spirits of Ahlebayt that could make you sure about Islam?

Looking forward to your thoughts about how you know Islam is the true religion. And how would you go about proving Islam to a non-Muslim?

(salam)

actually brother i wonder if the categories of belief are linked to power for instance, a person declaring belief in the west may really be 'a person of the book who has believed' As they say 'count as one of the muslims' >that they submit <

They live in the west therefore they are not free to 'believe' as they would have themselves imagine. And verses regarding believers are not entirely applicable to them, since they have no authority except the ones handed to them by their leaders (christian).

Should the people in power restrict, or outlaw their 'submission' then what i am saying would be more apparent.

I am saying that 'Islam' (in the west) has come to be associated with the freedoms afforded 'muslims' in the west. This misconception defines 'islam' otherwise I am sure the religion of Ibrahim Al hanif is sufficent for real description of Islam.

You will see that he had no power, and even told his wife to say she was his sister. His 'Islam' is as true then as it is today.

Freedom in religion has defined the religion, and popular agreement has follwed this way.

Allah knows best.

[MysticKnight]

Salam

I don't think I understand what your saying Muhammad-W. Anyone have a response to how they know Islam is the true religion?

[Nawid85]

BismallahirRahmanirRaheem

I'm gonna put aside a long post and just give it to you straight. Islam says there is ONLY ONE GOD. That HE is the creator of the heavens and the earth

and everything in between. And that everything in life has a purpose. There will be a judgment day in which EVERY single human being will

be held accountable for their sins.

So basically look at it through that angle. That TRUE justice exists. Maybe not in this world but in the next.

Heaven and hell DO exist. Do righteous deeds. Treat people as you want to be treated. Respect your parents

and your elders. Basic wisdom that every human being should practice. Islam promotes all these

beautiful things. So in a nutshell Islam is the truth because it gives people a reason to live and

MOTIVATES people to change their lives for the better. Every single convert that becomes Muslim

you'll notice changes every aspect of their life. From the way they dress, eat, act, talk everything.

So thats why Islam is the truth. It changes you for the better. And inspires you to go on living when

life doesn't seem worth it. =)

hope this answers your question.

Salaam Alaikum.

[MysticKnight]

Salam

Thanks for your thoughts. I don't think that proves Islam but thanks anyways. Hoping more can provide their evidence.

..

[a believer]

(salam)

Here's my 2 cents.

In my opinion, for something to be classified as 'existing', there has to be an observer to determine so. Which means, for the big bang to have happened, for the sun to rise etc, there had/has to be an entity observing it. (Therefore, we are being observed).

The concept of multiple deities (or observers) seems flawed. What if one 'god' 'kills' another? (Therefore, there is ONE GOD).

There are 3 prominent religions that promote the idea that there is ONE GOD and Islam approves of them.

What differentiates Islam from the other 2 is that it is the only religion that encompasses ALL aspects in life (ethics, economics, history, sexuality, general science, family life, etc).

[Mohammed-W]

Salam

I don't think I understand what your saying Muhammad-W. Anyone have a response to how they know Islam is the true religion?

(salam)

i am saying that 'Islam' is a social construction.

Within Islam we have sects that mirror buddhism, judaism, and christianity except they make the Prophet mohammed their reference, bringing them under the umbrella of ' Islam' All be it deviated.

I am saying that the real standard of islam is the one of Ibrahim, with or without power he is still a muslim. when he was entering a town and was unknown he told his wife to say she was his sister, his wife was taken from him by the king then returned (do you know the story?) : presently muslims shout from the roof tops with their religious freedom afforded them in the west. if the tables were turned the face of islam in the west would disappear, but the religion of Ibrahim would not.

Question is to difficult to reply to since islam is not agreed upon The followers of the prophet Mohammed (SAW) only agree in their claims that they follow him as the last prophet.

I know Islam is 'truth' for the whole of mankind, because it is easy enough for everyone to live in peace * condition* > If practiced under Khilafah with right from Allah (SWT)<

[MysticKnight]

So one answer is that it encompasses all aspects of human life while other religions do not.

Is there any other proof people have to offer for Islam? How do we expect people to know Islam is the true religion..?

[Mohammed-W]

So one answer is that it encompasses all aspects of human life while other religions do not.

Is there any other proof people have to offer for Islam? How do we expect people to know Islam is the true religion..?

(salam)

I answer like this (also) this because Musa (as) met with Khidr who had more knowledge than him. when they met Khidr said:

"the knowledge that has come to you I am not aware of and the knowledge that has come to you I am not aware of."

This does indicate that the 'truth' is not so easy, it is not available to all. We get parts allocated to us.

This religion is for the masses to enter paradise with ease, and live a good life in co-operation and peace. It is not the 'truth' of Khidr or anyone else we have no knowledge of.

Allah (SWT) Knows best

Edited December 5, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[MysticKnight]

Salam

Muhammad-W, I could rephrase the question, is to how do we know Mohammad (saw) is the Messenger of Allah? this is what I'm focusing on.

[Mohammed-W]

Salam

Muhammad-W, I could rephrase the question, is to how do we know Mohammad (saw) is the Messenger of Allah? this is what I'm focusing on.

(salam)

People well versed in the scriptures will see him prophesised, and recognize. By name, or description, and by location sometimes. I have seen many of these prophicies, even in hindu scripture.

[Gypsy]

(salam)

For me it has always been a process of elimination. Eliminate all the false religion by putting them (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism) under a microscope. Then examined each carefully.

What I found (and this is my personal opinion)

- As said before, atheism has no appeal to me. I need to know my purpose here and where I am going after death

- Christianity is too inconsistent. A human like Jesus (as) cannot be the son of God or God incarnate because men are already too weak (compare to the animals in nature like lions, elephants). Men are also weaker than forces of nature like tornadoes or storms/hurricanes. I cannot accept a weak God, in a human shape or someone who can die on a cross.

-Hinduism is too confusing. They are too many Gods/Goddess. I don't believe in the concept of many Gods and Goddess because each Gods/Goddess will be seeking powers and followers for themselves. This will open the door for corruptions/maliciousness.

- Buddhism is interesting because it is a way of life.. But it is no more practical than Islam. Buddhism doesn't have a good explanation about God. And the number one function of religion is to explain God before telling us how to live our life.

The above are all false religions because they are deficient. And Islam doesn't have any of the deficiencies mentioned above.

[guest 34193]

(wasalam)

/\ True, the kalima of Islam does begin with a 'laa'.

[The Persian Shah]

"..and nothing less than logicial certitude is sufficient.."

MysticKnight, here is your answer:

A Commentary on Theistic Arguments

By Ayatullah Jawadi Amuli

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39785081/A-Commentary-on-Theistic-Arguments-Ayatullah-Jawadi-Amuli

It's a difficult text though, would recommend some manteq or basic falsafa first. Let me know if you need any help with any part of this..

[14infallibles]

"..and nothing less than logicial certitude is sufficient.."

MysticKnight, here is your answer:

A Commentary on Theistic Arguments

By Ayatullah Jawadi Amuli

http://www.scribd.com/doc/39785081/A-Commentary-on-Theistic-Arguments-Ayatullah-Jawadi-Amuli

It's a difficult text though, would recommend some manteq or basic falsafa first. Let me know if you need any help with any part of this..

(salam)

Do they teach this book in hawza?

[Fink]

Well I'm sitting here reading my Biology book and found this part intriguing,

In regards to the seminal vesicles secretion and its function ,

" The alkalinity helps neutralize the acid PH environment of the terminal urethra and in the vagina"

In other words , the semen is prepared with a mixture as to allow the sperm to live once it has traveled to the vagina.

I can't fathom a universe such as ours existing without a God , Islam is a secondary belief. It is what you establish after believing in the existence of a God.

Edited December 6, 2010 by Fink

[14infallibles]

Well I'm sitting here reading my Biology book and found this part intriguing,

In regards to the seminal vesicles secretion and its function ,

" The alkalinity helps neutralize the acid PH environment of the terminal urethra and in the vagina"

In other words , the semen is prepared with a mixture as to allow the sperm to live once it has traveled to the vagina.

I can't fathom a universe such as ours existing without a God , Islam is a secondary belief. It is what you establish after believing in the existence of a God.

Subhan Allah

[ShiaBen]

For me, despite being born a Muslim, what made Shiite Islam, at least stand out from the rest. And Islam's theme in general, is that it moves with the present. It isn't practiced like it is a 1000 years ago. It keeps EVOLVING. It also implements science, technology, and powerful utilities to improve human lives.

So because of these things, I know it has to be a true religion if not a true way of life.

[MysticKnight]

Salam

@Zareen, interesting thoughts of elimination. Why does their have to be a religion in the first place so that there need be a process of elimination. How do you know there must be a religion out there ordained by God...

@PersianShah, I read through the chapter titles and don't know what is relevant to knowing Islam is true. It looks like it's about proving God as opposed to establishing which religion is correct.

@Fink, proving God and his Oneness is easy, proving the right religion doesn't seem as easy, but it's vitally important.

[The Persian Shah]

You are correct. In that case, for that purpose, see Ayatullah Mesbah Yazdi's [HA] "Theological Instructions"..

[Bonafide Hustler]

You really do not know if islam is true with a 100% degree of certainty. It may seem the best option of the lot mentioned above but that still doesn't render Islam the unquestionable established truth. That is your belief, no matter how you try to substantiate this belief through whatever kinds of evidence you bring, no evidence to this date has been enough to deem it true with out a shadow of doubt. You may not like the atheistic arguments but there are other possibilities, possibly a higher being that is different from the one described in the religious scriptures of the major faiths, either that or countless other possibilities that your imagination can muster or not, we just do not know.

Proving that there is a higher being is difficult enough and to this date not possible, proving that organized religion in whatever form is the unquestionable divine truth is even more difficult.

Anyhow in light of all the evidence we have in place, philosophical, empirical, logical, mathematical etc, it is reasonable to accept that fact that certain people can hold onto such beliefs with a limited degree of certainty though not complete. This is fine, we do the best with what we have, and this is reasonable and in my opinion sufficient.

[AL-HIDAYA]

Bismi Allah Errahmane Errahime

Salam alaykum

Wa salat wa salam ala Muhammad wa Al Muhammad

Salam

@Zareen, interesting thoughts of elimination. Why does their have to be a religion in the first place so that there need be a process of elimination. How do you know there must be a religion out there ordained by God...

@PersianShah, I read through the chapter titles and don't know what is relevant to knowing Islam is true. It looks like it's about proving God as opposed to establishing which religion is correct.

@Fink, proving God and his Oneness is easy, proving the right religion doesn't seem as easy, but it's vitally important.

For me, it's just to read Quran , and to see how it sound in yourself...

Something very important is to read "All The Quran" with a spirit of sincerity ...with a high motivation of truth seecking ...praying the Only One God to help and to open our heart and our spirit to what will make them alive with a strong faith ...and conduct them to His Straight Path...

I feel like it's not to us to find The True ...It's Him Who guide us and show us His signs and makes them evidents for us because of our sincerity and love for Him.....and SubhannAllah , The Quran is by divine essence to enlighten our souls and to conduct each believing heart to realize that it's nothing else than the True...and it makes the believer to feel all the signs described in This Holy Book in himself as well as in all the creation...

I feel also like it's a Special Book who give us a clear way of decoding life and offer us an exceptional guide to led us in what could be our salvation...

Just read it...With God willing every thing would be Clear for you...

May Allah keep His Infinite Mercy on us...Ameen

Salam wa rahmatou Allah

Wa salat wa slam ala Muhammad wa Al Muhammad....

[haideriam]

(bismillah)

(salam)

even if you send a young to pick up a book from the store

he will pick up the latest edition

if he does not then he will have to go back cause his parents will make him do it

basic common sense

(wasalam)

[Master Chief]

It is the knowledge that the prophets and the imams possessed that attracted me. From Adam and right down to Prophet Muhammad, the knowledge that these people had caused them to stand out from the crowd. Similarly, the knowledge of Ali bin Abu Talib to Muhammad bin Hasan al Mahdi also caused them to stand apart from the general population. No ordinary person has come even close to the level of knowledge that the prophets and imams posses. Their ideas were revolutionary and it literally changed people's lives. In Christianity, for example, the knowledge that Jesus (or Isa) possessed is far far more than the current pope has (I mean, Jesus raised the dead, I don't see the pope doing that). Furthermore, Islam is the only religion that has the capacity to tolerate the scientific method and makes it obligatory on Muslims to pursue knowledge and education. No other religion, as far as I know, puts so much emphasis on gaining knowledge. I hope that answers your question.

Edited December 7, 2010 by Master Chief

[Yahya2004]

Ten Reasons why I accept Islam to be the Truth:

1) the Rational Proof for a Deity

2) Tawheed is an apparent reality, Only Monotheism which is Unitarian makes any rational sense

3) Allah (SWT) would not be concerned with the affairs of only one ethnic group and as a result would send his communications to every corner of the world, and as the Qur'an states he did (SWT).

4) The Qur'an proves itself time after time to be an extremely unique book which is still fascinating people, yet does not in any way, shape or form read like a Human concuction, rather due to it's unique form of coherence and structure it reads different from any linear book from the hands of men.

5) It articulately attacks the world views of other false beliefs.

6) It accurately relays history, unknowable and certainly not from the concerns of 7th Century Arabs.

7) The Prophet Muhammad (SAWA) demonstrates sincerity and psychological integrity and his psychological profile does not fit that of the author of the Qur'an

8) The Purity of Tawheed from AhlulBayt (as)

9) It is not a religion which breeds the arrogance of those who act self-righteous, because it does not encourage it. Unlike other missionary religions.

10) It is a religion which encourages works, but at the same time does not teach that salvation comes through only obeying a law, nor purely through belief- rather a fusion of both.

[KomaiLiamoK]

I ask myself this question: If matter can't be created or destroyed where did it all come from? Most of the world rejects a God, but they believe that people are able to create things, even though they just modify what is already there. And the Quran hasn't been altered in anyway, which means it's perfect.

Edited December 7, 2010 by KomaiLiamoK

[Chiddler]

I ask myself this question: If matter can't be created or destroyed where did it all come from? Most of the world rejects a God, but they believe that people are able to create things, even though they just modify what is already there. And the Quran hasn't been altered in anyway, which means it's perfect.

70% of the universe is made of dark energy. Furthermore, E=mc^2, meaning matter can become energy. I've not taken much physics in college, but is it not possible that the universe started out as dark energy? After all, we are not entirely certain what it is, nor how it functions. Thus I think that is a weak argument.

I think a stronger argument is simply the fact that the universe exists, period. What type of entity can create a finite entity, such as ours? A less finite entity. What type of entity can create a less finite entity? An even less finite entity...etc. There must be an ultimate source of creation. That source is an infinitely powerful entity that I will call a deity.

As for Islam specifically, I will have to agree with what somebody wrote previously. It is kind of process of elimination. I've seen faults with christianity and judaism, and I am not even considering polytheistic theologies, because they are fundamentally irrational. To name some of these faults, one story that I find absolutely horrifying is

. (granted this video takes a humorous perspective on the issue, but some parts of this story is on par with christian beliefs, according to my reading of the old testament.)

[zeinabiyya]

Salam

Here's a question to people. How do you know Islam is true?

I think the sure sign asked for in Quran is about witnessing Rasool's light and spirit. In this lies sureness of Islam.

Aside from this, is there anyway to be sure about Islam? Quran itself is an amazing book, but does it's amazement make people sure about Islam?

Is there any systematic proof aside from the amazement of Quran and witnessing the Spirits of Ahlebayt that could make you sure about Islam?

Looking forward to your thoughts about how you know Islam is the true religion. And how would you go about proving Islam to a non-Muslim?

Honestly, just because it makes sense.

It's all logic, isn't it? It's all reasoning, at least from the basis, and from there you build up to belief and true faith.

The oneness of God is a fact provable through logic and reasoning.

Everything I see around me, all the experiences I or those around me go through every day, prove to me over and over again how real and true Islam is. That it fits into the mold of this world. That it is neither idealistic, nor pessimistic - that it is simply realistic, that it fits what this world is all about and what this world really is. It's not like Christianity, say, where it is assumed that people should be "saints" and as men of God not have sex their whole lives. It's not a religion where it is assumed that men will automatically respect women no matter what, that nudity is acceptable, that prostitution doesn't have any consequences. It's not a religion supporting Marxism or materialism or capitalism - it is not a religion of extremes, but rather of moderation. And from here I see that Islam is a real religion, a real way of life, one that is applicable on the arena of this life and built to fit what man was made for. That is, enjoying what is meant to be enjoyed and leaving that which is meant to be avoided.

There are a lot of details we can go through and prove, one by one, but this is one of the simplest and most essential. I see the truth of Islam every day when I see the necessity of hijab, when I see the objectification of women in the media. I see it every day in the discrepancies between the alluring promises of people advocating this world over the hereafter and the reality of what we are rewarded with - I see it in the claims that marriage is no longer necessary, along with the rises in societal problems, the growing distrust and discord between men and women, the rise of abuse, broken families, and troubled children.

The things that may seem more difficult for us to prove logically are still believed by me and others like me because of this foundation, this basis, of logic and reason that Islam is built upon.

Proving Islam to a non-Muslim as such is about proving the truth and relevance of Islam throughout the ages, no matter what.

[MysticKnight]

Some reasons that I believe you can use to show Islam is true aside from the miracalous nature of Quran..

It's the only religion that emphasizes on removal of oppression, Imam Hussain (as) says:

The reason for this is that enjoining the good and forbidding the evil means summoning people to Islam, which is a struggle to establish correct belief in the face of external opposition, while at the same time vindicating the rights of the oppressed; opposing and struggling against oppressors within the community; and endeavouring to ensure that public wealth and the income derived from war are distributed in accordance with the just laws of Islam, and that taxes [zakat and all other forms of fiscal income, whether compulsory or voluntary ] are collected, levied, and expended in due and proper form.

The correct religion would surely teach us to face oppression and command society towards removal of oppressors. The Shia Islam is the only religion where this occurs.

The 2nd reason is the emphasis on ruling by what Allah (swt) revealed. Allah is the Sovereign and King, as such it makes sense he is what rules humanity. The only religion to emphasize on ruling by revelation is Islam. There is emphasis on this in Suratal maeeda. We can know the true religion would want us ruling by what God revealed. This is the only religion to emphasize on that.

Another reason is the establishment of Salah (the connection). In salah we remember God standing, bowing, and prostrating, and sitting. We constantly remember God every day and give him respect and reverence in form of ruku and sujood. This style of remembrance is surely in itself something that reveals wisdom. We also remember Mohammad and the family of Mohammad making the connection complete with the mention of our guides and means towards God. This form of connection to God is itself a proof of the right religion. It's because it's style shows a divine wisdom that you would expect a religion of truth to have in establishing a connection between God and his servants.

Another reason is because of the Ghadeer declaration and Quran. Easily Mohammad (saw) could have put clearly Imamate of Ali (as) in Quran, but it remained hidden in a way in Quran. hidden in the sense in needs to be pondered about with other verses to see Imamate in Quran. The way the Quran safegaurds it, while, the Messenger is told to convey it, shows a divine wisdom in keeping this message without forcing people to it. It shows it's not something a fabricator would make up... if he would make up, he would just have declared it clearly and blantanlty in Quran. But instead we see the chosen family concept is introduce, the wage verses together, and the envied people compared ot the family of Ibrahim and their authority mentioned before Ulil-Amri verse, is something that is showing and manifesting the true path, but in none forcing clearly explicit way. It leaves room for denial. Why would a fabricator want to do that? At the same time, the ghadeer declaration is clear and also leaves room for denial. The only way it would be passed on by the masses would be if it did that. Again, why would a fabricator do this?

Another reasons is because of the prediction of the 12 Imams. The 12 Successors were predicted by the Messenger and it surely came to pass as he said. A prediction of a people claimed to chosen people whom would be claimed of of chosen family defiinition of Quran with exact number of 12 Imams, is what occurred. The theme of offsping in Quran also alluses to have have Imams in offspring of Mohammad (saw). It occured as predicted by Quran and Sunna. This itself is a proof of religion. Ahlebayt are themselves a proof of the religion. The fact we have a family that is claimed to be chosen with only 12 Successors is testification to the prediction of the Messenger.

Edited December 12, 2010 by MysticKnight

[MysticKnight]

Also in proving there must be a religon, we can know God wishes to guide his servants, as such would send guidance to them and would give direction to his servants. Thus we know some sort of guidance must exist from God. The only logical consistant religion that has form of guidance from God is Islam. Judaism Torah and Christian bible fails the test when applied to logic.

[Bonafide Hustler]

Honestly, just because it makes sense.

It's all logic, isn't it? It's all reasoning, at least from the basis, and from there you build up to belief and true faith.

The oneness of God is a fact provable through logic and reasoning.

Everything I see around me, all the experiences I or those around me go through every day, prove to me over and over again how real and true Islam is. That it fits into the mold of this world. That it is neither idealistic, nor pessimistic - that it is simply realistic, that it fits what this world is all about and what this world really is. It's not like Christianity, say, where it is assumed that people should be "saints" and as men of God not have sex their whole lives. It's not a religion where it is assumed that men will automatically respect women no matter what, that nudity is acceptable, that prostitution doesn't have any consequences. It's not a religion supporting Marxism or materialism or capitalism - it is not a religion of extremes, but rather of moderation. And from here I see that Islam is a real religion, a real way of life, one that is applicable on the arena of this life and built to fit what man was made for. That is, enjoying what is meant to be enjoyed and leaving that which is meant to be avoided.

There are a lot of details we can go through and prove, one by one, but this is one of the simplest and most essential. I see the truth of Islam every day when I see the necessity of hijab, when I see the objectification of women in the media. I see it every day in the discrepancies between the alluring promises of people advocating this world over the hereafter and the reality of what we are rewarded with - I see it in the claims that marriage is no longer necessary, along with the rises in societal problems, the growing distrust and discord between men and women, the rise of abuse, broken families, and troubled children.

The things that may seem more difficult for us to prove logically are still believed by me and others like me because of this foundation, this basis, of logic and reason that Islam is built upon.

Proving Islam to a non-Muslim as such is about proving the truth and relevance of Islam throughout the ages, no matter what.

First of all it so far is not 'provable' through logic and reasoning, that is a false assertion. The fact that prostitution has negative consequences, the fact that extra marital affairs have negative consequences, the fact that lying, backbiting and occupying oneself with superficial and materialistic gains is harmful to ones peace of mind are conclusions which can be derived independent of religion by a 12 year old in church/mosque less streets of Cambodia. The reason women are out there objectifying themselves cannot be simply attributed to the absence of religion in their life. Women a lot of times are pressured into such situations through models of consumption etc which no wise person approves, religious or not. You could technically and legally have a muslim society in which men would sleep around with different women on a daily basis, after all it is deemed perfectly halal in shia Islam through mutah, even though you could be married with children, it is perfectly moral, I doubt you would consider that extreme, but nudity sure is even though it has no bearing on trust or fidelity.

Have a discussion with someone who does not believe in organized religion but upholds some of the basic universal principles of morality and shares a sense of care and compassion for fellow human beings. He will without a doubt denounce objectification of women, denounce lying, backbiting, breaking a friend or partners heart and senselessly engaging in domestic violence. None of this would of course have been derived from religion, these are common sense elementary universally accepted morals. If you were to lure a critical thinking, humanitarian, wise and compassionate non believer into islam, he might question certain practices that seem extreme to him, such as killing of the apostates, stoning of women who happened to commit adultery (correct me if I am wrong). Now you may approve of all this since it is the unquestionable word of god, and hence thats enough to justify it, but the point is these might seem just as extreme to him, while you sit here asserting islam has a monopoly on all things moderate. The simple truth of the matter, is, most of what you see wrong in this world is due to a lack of elementary wisdom and not a lack of religion. There are tremendous economic forces at work to keep people behaving in a certain fashion, to create certain conditions to foster certain practices so the select few can get rich of other peoples misery. One cannot simply assert that lack of religion is the cause of all problems humanity.

[Gypsy]

(salam)

Have a discussion with someone who does not believe in organized religion but upholds some of the basic universal principles of morality and shares a sense of care and compassion for fellow human beings. He will without a doubt denounce objectification of women, denounce lying, backbiting, breaking a friend or partners heart and senselessly engaging in domestic violence. None of this would of course have been derived from religion, these are common sense elementary universally accepted morals. If you were to lure a critical thinking, humanitarian, wise and compassionate non believer into islam, he might question certain practices that seem extreme to him, such as killing of the apostates, stoning of women who happened to commit adultery (correct me if I am wrong). Now you may approve of all this since it is the unquestionable word of god, and hence thats enough to justify it, but the point is these might seem just as extreme to him, while you sit here asserting islam has a monopoly on all things moderate. The simple truth of the matter, is, most of what you see wrong in this world is due to a lack of elementary wisdom and not a lack of religion. There are tremendous economic forces at work to keep people behaving in a certain fashion, to create certain conditions to foster certain practices so the select few can get rich of other peoples misery. One cannot simply assert that lack of religion is the cause of all problems humanity.

Some of what you said is based on correct assumptions and you are giving good examples of people (who may not be Muslims or religious) living with/using a good value system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_theory).

My only problem with a good value system is that it cannot account for massive corruption and large-scale tyranny.

For e.g, how do you explain people like Saddam (LA) and Hitler (LA) who killed hundreds of thousands of people, and all they had to pay for in dunya was with their miserable existence. Personally, I don’t find this fair at all.

[HassanA]

There is a lot of science in the Quran that can get any non-believer to start thinking.

[The Persian Shah]

First of all it so far is not 'provable' through logic and reasoning, that is a false assertion. The fact that prostitution has negative consequences, the fact that extra marital affairs have negative consequences, the fact that lying, backbiting and occupying oneself with superficial and materialistic gains is harmful to ones peace of mind are conclusions which can be derived independent of religion by a 12 year old in church/mosque less streets of Cambodia. The reason women are out there objectifying themselves cannot be simply attributed to the absence of religion in their life. Women a lot of times are pressured into such situations through models of consumption etc which no wise person approves, religious or not. You could technically and legally have a muslim society in which men would sleep around with different women on a daily basis, after all it is deemed perfectly halal in shia Islam through mutah, even though you could be married with children, it is perfectly moral, I doubt you would consider that extreme, but nudity sure is even though it has no bearing on trust or fidelity.

Have a discussion with someone who does not believe in organized religion but upholds some of the basic universal principles of morality and shares a sense of care and compassion for fellow human beings. He will without a doubt denounce objectification of women, denounce lying, backbiting, breaking a friend or partners heart and senselessly engaging in domestic violence. None of this would of course have been derived from religion, these are common sense elementary universally accepted morals. If you were to lure a critical thinking, humanitarian, wise and compassionate non believer into islam, he might question certain practices that seem extreme to him, such as killing of the apostates, stoning of women who happened to commit adultery (correct me if I am wrong). Now you may approve of all this since it is the unquestionable word of god, and hence thats enough to justify it, but the point is these might seem just as extreme to him, while you sit here asserting islam has a monopoly on all things moderate. The simple truth of the matter, is, most of what you see wrong in this world is due to a lack of elementary wisdom and not a lack of religion. There are tremendous economic forces at work to keep people behaving in a certain fashion, to create certain conditions to foster certain practices so the select few can get rich of other peoples misery. One cannot simply assert that lack of religion is the cause of all problems humanity.

So is this your own view too, that you don't believe in any religion?