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In the Name of God بسم الله

Did Shias Kill Imam Hussain(as)?

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imamia

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So did Abu Bakr, Umar prayed behind Prophet (pbuh) but later denied pen and paper to the Holy Prophet (pbuh) to write a will. Did not participate in his (pbuh) funeral. Brought Wood and fire to burn the house of Prophet (pbuh). Angered Fatima (as) who was part of Prophet (pbuh)

check for Sahih hadiths www.abubakr.org

What is your point they were all hypocrites right, so why not let us curse them. Are you ready?

and nobody has yet responded to the above post

i love to see SAHEEH hadith on WOOD.

& pen & paper, what do you mean by that?

I thought Ali (ra) was also present there:

Úä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä Èä ÚÈÇÓ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá : ( áãÇ ÍÖÑ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ÑÌÇá Ýíåã ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã åáã ÃßÊÈ áßã ßÊÇÈÇ áÇ ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå ÝÞÇá ÚãÑ Åä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÏ ÛáÈ Úáíå ÇáæÌÚ æÚäÏßã ÇáÞÑÂä ÍÓÈäÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÝÇÎÊÕãæÇ ãäåã ãä íÞæá ÞÑÈæÇ íßÊÈ áßã ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå æãäåã ãä íÞæá ãÇ ÞÇá ÚãÑ ÝáãÇ ÃßËÑæÇ ÇááÛæ æÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ ÚäÏ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞæãæÇ ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ).

ÇáÈÎÇÑí ÍÏíË ÑÞã : 5345 ßÊÇÈ ÇáãÑÖì / ÈÇÈ Þæá ÇáãÑíÖ ÞæãæÇ Úäí

Úä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä Èä ÚÈÇÓ : ( ÞÇá áãÇ ÍÖÑ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ÑÌÇá Ýíåã ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÞÇá åáã ÃßÊÈ áßã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå ÞÇá ÚãÑ Åä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÛáÈå ÇáæÌÚ æÚäÏßã ÇáÞÑÂä ÝÍÓÈäÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå æÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÇÎÊÕãæÇ Ýãäåã ãä íÞæá ÞÑÈæÇ íßÊÈ áßã ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå æãäåã ãä íÞæá ãÇ ÞÇá ÚãÑ ÝáãÇ ÃßËÑæÇ ÇááÛØ æÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ ÚäÏ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá ÞæãæÇ Úäí . ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ) .

ÇáÈÎÇÑí ÍÏíË ÑÞã : 6932 ßÊÇÈ ÇáÇÚÊÕÇã ÈÇáßÊÇÈ æÇáÓäÉ / ÈÇÈ ßÑÇåíÉ ÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ•

Úä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÚÊÈÉ Úä Èä ÚÈÇÓ ÞÇá : ( áãÇ ÍÖÑ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ÑÌÇá Ýíåã ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÝÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã åáã ÃßÊÈ áßã ßÊÇÈÇ áÇ ÊÖáæä ÈÚÏå ÝÞÇá ÚãÑ Åä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÏ ÛáÈ Úáíå ÇáæÌÚ æÚäÏßã ÇáÞÑÂä ÍÓÈäÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÝÇÎÊÕãæÇ Ýãäåã ãä íÞæá ÞÑÈæÇ íßÊÈ áßã ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå æãäåã ãä íÞæá ãÇ ÞÇá ÚãÑ ÝáãÇ ÃßËÑæÇ ÇááÛæ æÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ ÚäÏ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞæãæÇ

ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ).

ÑæÇå ãÓáã ÍÏíË ÑÞã ( 1637) ßÊÇÈ ÇáæÕíÉ / ÈÇÈ ÊÑß ÇáæÕíÉ áãä áíÓ áå ÔíÁ íæÕì Ýíå

Ubaidallah Bin Abdullah from Ibn Abbas (ra): "On thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." Then Umar said: "the messenger of Allah is overcome by pain and you have the Quran, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". So Ahlulbayt Differed in their Opinions and disputed, some said come let the Prophet of Allah peace be upon him write us this book which we will never go astray after it and some said what Umar had said, When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to all of them, "go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that for them.

Dispute was between ahlul-bayt (ra). Not by Umar (ra) .

& i can also claim that prophet (pbuh) wanted to write the name of Abu Bakr (ra) because he preferred him to lead the prayer when he was alive.

& statement of Umar (ra) was not wrong even Ali (ra) claimed same thing:

ÝóßóÝóì ÈöÇáúÌóäóøÉö ËóæóÇÈÇð æóäóæóÇáÇð¡ æóßóÝì ÈóÇáäóøÇÑö ÚöÞóÇÈÇð æóæóÈóÇáÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇááåö ãõäúÊóÞöãÇð æóäóÕöíÑÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇáßöÊóÇÈö ÍóÌíÌÇð æóÎóÕöíãÇð

" And the Book of Allah is sufficient as proof(Argument) and as Confronter "

[Nahjul Balagha - Sermon al Gharra (sermon 82)]

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i love to see SAHEEH hadith on WOOD.

& pen & paper, what do you mean by that?

I thought Ali (ra) was also present there:

عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله عن بن عباس رضي الله عنه قال : ( لما حضر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وفي البيت رجال فيهم عمر بن الخطاب قال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لا تضلوا بعده فقال عمر إن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قد غلب عليه الوجع وعندكم القرآن حسبنا كتاب الله فاختلف أهل البيت فاختصموا منهم من يقول قربوا يكتب لكم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده ومنهم من يقول ما قال عمر فلما أكثروا اللغو والاختلاف عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قوموا قال عبيد الله فكان بن عباس يقول إن الرزية كل الرزية ما حال بين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبين أن يكتب لهم ذلك الكتاب من اختلافهم ولغطهم ).

البخاري حديث رقم : 5345 كتاب المرضى / باب قول المريض قوموا عني

عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله عن بن عباس : ( قال لما حضر النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال وفي البيت رجال فيهم عمر بن الخطاب قال هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده قال عمر إن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم غلبه الوجع وعندكم القرآن فحسبنا كتاب الله واختلف أهل البيت اختصموا فمنهم من يقول قربوا يكتب لكم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده ومنهم من يقول ما قال عمر فلما أكثروا اللغط والاختلاف عند النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم قال قوموا عني . قال عبيد الله فكان بن عباس يقول إن الرزية كل الرزية ما حال بين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبين أن يكتب لهم ذلك الكتاب من اختلافهم ولغطهم ) .

البخاري حديث رقم : 6932 كتاب الاعتصام بالكتاب والسنة / باب كراهية الاختلاف•

عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة عن بن عباس قال : ( لما حضر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وفي البيت رجال فيهم عمر بن الخطاب فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لا تضلون بعده فقال عمر إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قد غلب عليه الوجع وعندكم القرآن حسبنا كتاب الله فاختلف أهل البيت فاختصموا فمنهم من يقول قربوا يكتب لكم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده ومنهم من يقول ما قال عمر فلما أكثروا اللغو والاختلاف عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قوموا

قال عبيد الله فكان بن عباس يقول إن الرزية كل الرزية ما حال بين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبين أن يكتب لهم ذلك الكتاب من اختلافهم ولغطهم ).

رواه مسلم حديث رقم ( 1637) كتاب الوصية / باب ترك الوصية لمن ليس له شيء يوصى فيه

Ubaidallah Bin Abdullah from Ibn Abbas (ra): "On thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." Then Umar said: "the messenger of Allah is overcome by pain and you have the Quran, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". So Ahlulbayt Differed in their Opinions and disputed, some said come let the Prophet of Allah peace be upon him write us this book which we will never go astray after it and some said what Umar had said, When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to all of them, "go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that for them.

Dispute was between ahlul-bayt (ra). Not by Umar (ra) .

& i can also claim that prophet (pbuh) wanted to write the name of Abu Bakr (ra) because he preferred him to lead the prayer when he was alive.

& statement of Umar (ra) was not wrong even Ali (ra) claimed same thing:

فَكَفَى بِالْجَنَّةِ ثَوَاباً وَنَوَالاً، وَكَفى بَالنَّارِ عِقَاباً وَوَبَالاً! وَكَفَى بِاللهِ مُنْتَقِماً وَنَصِيراً! وَكَفَى بِالكِتَابِ حَجيجاً وَخَصِيماً

" And the Book of Allah is sufficient as proof(Argument) and as Confronter "

[Nahjul Balagha - Sermon al Gharra (sermon 82)]

salaam., umar and his friends making noise while the prophet(pbuh&f) wants to write his will is a sign of hypocracy, as you may know allh says in the quran:"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of prophet ... lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive."

(Quran 49:2).

"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is

nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

when Allah is saying that prophet does not speak out of his desire who was umar ibn khattab to say that the prophet is saying nonsense, when such a prophet, three days before his death, wished to write adocument of his will to save the Muslims from going astray, he was accused

of talking no sense (paranoid)! quran is saying very clear he does not speak out of his desire, it means no sickness or whatever the problem be, the prophet will not speak out of his desire, imam ali was already chosen by Allah through the prophet on ghadir khum and abubakr,umar and uthman gave allegiance and congratulated imam ali, but their allegiance was only to show the prophet that we are in your party, when umar and his freinds quarrelled the prophet told them to go away, isnt this against the quran

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

didnt umar ibn khattab and his freinds made noise at prophets house and stopped him from writing his will? didnt umar ibn khattab went against the quran again when he said the prophet is saying non sense when the verse clearly tells us that he does not speak out of his desire, whatever he says is revelation? lets be honest brothers, accept the truth, moreover abubakr and umar killed lady fatimah zahra (sa) the daughter of the prophet, prophet used to say, "Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry." Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

ABUBAKR himself testifies that he lead his freinds to attack fatima(sa) house, Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Sunni reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam

Ali (as) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (as), as quoted by Ibn

Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in

response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic

declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (as) has displeased the Prophet

and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you

have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall

meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-

Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).

Edited by imamia
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salaam., umar and his friends making noise while the prophet(pbuh&f) wants to write his will is a sign of hypocracy, as you may know allh says in the quran:"O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of prophet ... lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive."

(Quran 49:2).

"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is

nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

when Allah is saying that prophet does not speak out of his desire who was umar ibn khattab to say that the prophet is saying nonsense, when such a prophet, three days before his death, wished to write adocument of his will to save the Muslims from going astray, he was accused

of talking no sense (paranoid)! quran is saying very clear he does not speak out of his desire, it means no sickness or whatever the problem be, the prophet will not speak out of his desire, imam ali was already chosen by Allah through the prophet on ghadir khum and abubakr,umar and uthman gave allegiance and congratulated imam ali, but their allegiance was only to show the prophet that we are in your party, when umar and his freinds quarrelled the prophet told them to go away, isnt this against the quran

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

didnt umar ibn khattab and his freinds made noise at prophets house and stopped him from writing his will? didnt umar ibn khattab went against the quran again when he said the prophet is saying non sense when the verse clearly tells us that he does not speak out of his desire, whatever he says is revelation? lets be honest brothers, accept the truth, moreover abubakr and umar killed lady fatimah zahra (sa) the daughter of the prophet, prophet used to say, "Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry, makes me angry." Sunni references:

- Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English, v5, Traditions #61 and #111

- Sahih Muslim, section of virtues of Fatimah, v4, pp 1904-5

Please show the hadiths of bukhari & muslim

ABUBAKR himself testifies that he lead his freinds to attack fatima(sa) house, Abu Bakr said (on his death bed): "I wish I had not searched for

Fatimah's house, and had not sent men to harass her, though it would

have caused a war if her house would have continued to be used as a

shelter."

Sunni references:

- History of Ya'qubi, v2, pp 115-116

- Ansab Ashraf, by al-Baladhuri, v1, pp 582,586

Umar said to Fatimah (who was behind the door of her house): "I know

that the Prophet of God did not love any one more than you, but this

will not stop me to carry out my decision. If these people stay in

your house, I will burn the door in front of you."

Sunni reference: Kanz al-Ummal, v3, p140

During her last days, when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam

Ali (as) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (as), as quoted by Ibn

Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in

response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic

declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (as) has displeased the Prophet

and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you

have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall

meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al-

Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14).

Please leave this discussion for zakzaki, rather than pasting the articles.

Proof the authenticity of these reports.

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Please show the hadiths of bukhari & muslim

Please leave this discussion for zakzaki, rather than pasting the articles.

Proof the authenticity of these reports.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

I thought you knew it is there in Sahih Bukhari (the pen and paper hadith and how Umar prevented Prophet (pbuh) writing a will on his deathbead). I never thought you were so dumb in believing that Umar never caused noise and chaos, which made the Prophet (pbuh) ill more. and refer to Quranic Ayahs what happens if you do not listen to Prophet (pbuh) or do you want me to post them too?

Edited by zakzaki
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Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 70, Number 573:

Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:

When Allah's Apostle was on his death-bed and in the house there were some people among whom was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab, the Prophet said, "Come, let me write for you a statement after which you will not go astray." 'Umar said, "The Prophet is seriously ill and you have the Qur'an; so the Book of Allah is enough for us." The people present in the house differed and quarrelled. Some said "Go near so that the Prophet may write for you a statement after which you will not go astray," while the others said as Umar said. When they caused a hue and cry before the Prophet, Allah's Apostle said, "Go away!" Narrated 'Ubaidullah: Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was very unfortunate that Allah's Apostle was prevented from writing that statement for them because of their disagreement and noise."

I thought you knew it is there in Sahih Bukhari (the pen and paper hadith and how Umar prevented Prophet (pbuh) writing a will on his deathbead). I never thought you were so dumb in believing that Umar never caused noise and chaos, which made the Prophet (pbuh) ill more. and refer to Quranic Ayahs what happens if you do not listen to Prophet (pbuh) or do you want me to post them too?

I think you skipped what i said:

I thought Ali (ra) was also present there:

Úä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Úä Èä ÚÈÇÓ ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá : ( áãÇ ÍÖÑ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ÑÌÇá Ýíåã ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã åáã ÃßÊÈ áßã ßÊÇÈÇ áÇ ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå ÝÞÇá ÚãÑ Åä ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÏ ÛáÈ Úáíå ÇáæÌÚ æÚäÏßã ÇáÞÑÂä ÍÓÈäÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÝÇÎÊÕãæÇ ãäåã ãä íÞæá ÞÑÈæÇ íßÊÈ áßã ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå æãäåã ãä íÞæá ãÇ ÞÇá ÚãÑ ÝáãÇ ÃßËÑæÇ ÇááÛæ æÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ ÚäÏ ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞæãæÇ ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ).

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ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ).

ÑæÇå ãÓáã ÍÏíË ÑÞã ( 1637) ßÊÇÈ ÇáæÕíÉ / ÈÇÈ ÊÑß ÇáæÕíÉ áãä áíÓ áå ÔíÁ íæÕì Ýíå

Ubaidallah Bin Abdullah from Ibn Abbas (ra): "On thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." Then Umar said: "the messenger of Allah is overcome by pain and you have the Quran, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". So Ahlulbayt Differed in their Opinions and disputed, some said come let the Prophet of Allah peace be upon him write us this book which we will never go astray after it and some said what Umar had said, When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to all of them, "go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that for them.

Dispute was between ahlul-bayt (ra). Not by Umar (ra) .

& i can also claim that prophet (pbuh) wanted to write the name of Abu Bakr (ra) because he preferred him to lead the prayer when he was alive.

& statement of Umar (ra) was not wrong even Ali (ra) claimed same thing:

ÝóßóÝóì ÈöÇáúÌóäóøÉö ËóæóÇÈÇð æóäóæóÇáÇð¡ æóßóÝì ÈóÇáäóøÇÑö ÚöÞóÇÈÇð æóæóÈóÇáÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇááåö ãõäúÊóÞöãÇð æóäóÕöíÑÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇáßöÊóÇÈö ÍóÌíÌÇð æóÎóÕöíãÇð

" And the Book of Allah is sufficient as proof(Argument) and as Confronter "

[Nahjul Balagha - Sermon al Gharra (sermon 82)]

I don't understand how Umar (ra) disputed?

& i also requested you for:

SAHEEH hadith on WOOD.

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I think you skipped what i said:

I don't understand how Umar (ra) disputed?

& i also requested you for:

SAHEEH hadith on WOOD.

It is strange that you are bringing your explanation of a Sahih hadith and regarding the fire and wood hadith refer to history of Tabari and other Sunnis who have recorded it. You can find out for yourself whether it is Sahih or not.

Where does it say that Imam Ali (as) started the argument? Argument was raised by Umar which lead to confrontation and Prophet (pbuh) chasing umar and company out. Read the SAhih hadith properly posted.

Edited by zakzaki
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It is strange that you are bringing your explanation of a Sahih hadith and regarding the fire and wood hadith refer to history of Tabari and other Sunnis who have recorded it. You can find out for yourself whether it is Sahih or not.

Where does it say that Imam Ali (as) started the argument? Argument was raised by Umar which lead to confrontation and Prophet (pbuh) chasing umar and company out. Read the SAhih hadith properly posted.

that is why i posted arabic text of that hadith and i also colored that part ( فاختلف أهل البيت ). so that you can check.

here most of the members praise Sayyed Kamal al Haydari.

& here is the gift of Sayyed Kamal al Haydari for shia lovers: Sayyed Kamal al Haydari admits that The Battle of Karbala was between Imam Hussein (ra) and the Shia of Ali (ra) in al Kufah, He even said The Shia of Ali (ra) wanted to come closer to Allah by spilling the blood of Hussein (ra) .

listen from minute 3 to minute 4:30.

The Lecture has the title: Dar'e al Shubuhat 'An Waqi'at al taff.

لسيد كمال الحيدري: محاضرة بعنوان درء الشبهات عن واقعة الطف

Shia Link (quickly before they remove it): http://shiavoice.com/play-fex3h.html

One of the fellow saved and Uploaded it on youtube:

Edited by ibn.askari
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Please show the hadiths of bukhari & muslim

Please leave this discussion for zakzaki, rather than pasting the articles.

Proof the authenticity of these reports.

if you dont beleive your books written by your ulama then why are you discussing these issues? when your ulama have said that these books are sahih then who are you to tell me that these are not sahih?

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that is why i posted arabic text of that hadith and i also colored that part ( ÝÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ). so that you can check.

here most of the members praise Sayyed Kamal al Haydari.

& here is the gift of Sayyed Kamal al Haydari for shia lovers: Sayyed Kamal al Haydari admits that The Battle of Karbala was between Imam Hussein (ra) and the Shia of Ali (ra) in al Kufah, He even said The Shia of Ali (ra) wanted to come closer to Allah by spilling the blood of Hussein (ra) .

listen from minute 3 to minute 4:30.

The Lecture has the title: Dar'e al Shubuhat 'An Waqi'at al taff.

áÓíÏ ßãÇá ÇáÍíÏÑí: ãÍÇÖÑÉ ÈÚäæÇä ÏÑÁ ÇáÔÈåÇÊ Úä æÇÞÚÉ ÇáØÝ

Shia Link (quickly before they remove it): http://shiavoice.com/play-fex3h.html

One of the fellow saved and Uploaded it on youtube:

when imam hussain says, o shia of ale abu sofian to the troops of yazeed(la) what does it mean? those who loved muawiyah(la) and yazeed were those who hated imam ali, how can they be shia of ali,? muawiyahs hatred towards ali and his sons was obvious when the 1st three were caliph muawiyah didnt raise against them, but when imam ali became caliph he raised, when imam hassan became caliph he raised, and then his son yazeed followed imam hussain even in mecca, he even wnted to kill him in mecca where blood shed is not allowed, its very obvious that your beloved caliph muawiyah and yazeed did not love imam ali, imam hassan and imam hussain, so they cant be shia of ali, shia means follower, most of kufans were shia of ale abu sofian, why? because they did not follow what prophet said,

Abu Huraira narrated:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and

Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will raise against you.

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52

(3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350

(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169

(6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat

(7) Jamius Saghir, by al-Ibani, v2, p17

(8) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v7, p137

(9) Sawai'q al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p221

(10) Talkhis, by al-Dhahabi, v3, p149

(11) Dhakha'ir al-Uqba, by al-Muhib al-Tabari, p25

you are being enemy of the prophet by loving those who were enemies of imam ali,lady fatimah,imam hasan,imam husain. if you really love the prophet and his family, why do you love their enemies? why are you ignoring the truth? the pophet made it very clear my freind, mke your decision before death, time is running, wake up.

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The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and

your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise."

Sunni references:

(1) Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p655

(2) Hilyatul Awliyaa, by Abu Nu'aym, v4, p329

(3) Tarikh, by al-Khateeb al-Baghdadi, v12, p289

(4) al-Awsat, by al-Tabarani

(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v10, pp 21-22

(6) al-Darqunti, who said this tradition has been transmitted via numerous

authorities.

(7) al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar Haythami , Ch. 11, section 1, p247

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) said that the true followers of imam Ali will go to Paradise. Also Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The Shia of Ali are

the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

Sunni references:

- al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

- Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62

- Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, who quotes

the tradition as follows: "We were with the Holy Prophet when Ali came

towards us. The Holy Prophet said: He and his Shia will aquire salvation

on the day of judgment."

The claim that Shia of ali killed Imam Husain follows that the Prophet

states those who will kill Imam Husain will go to Paradise! Perhaps, you

believe that's why Yazid did so.

Edited by imamia
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Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HF) said that the true followers of imam Ali will go to Paradise. Also Jabir Ibn Abdillah al-Ansari narrated that:

The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "The Shia of Ali are

the real victorious in the day of resurrection/rising"

Sunni references:

- al-Manaqib Ahmad, as mentioned in:

- Yanabi al-Mawaddah, by al-Qundoozi al-Hanafi, p62

- Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Hafidh Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, who quotes

the tradition as follows: "We were with the Holy Prophet when Ali came

towards us. The Holy Prophet said: He and his Shia will aquire salvation

on the day of judgment."

The claim that Shia of ali killed Imam Husain follows that the Prophet

states those who will kill Imam Husain will go to Paradise! Perhaps, you

believe that's why Yazid did so.

Jazakallah for quoting this ahadith. Can you tell me who these shia are in the ahadith mentioned above ? Are they those shias supported Imam Ali (as) in Jamal and Siffin ?

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1) there are numerous contradictions as to the names of those who broke into uthmans house- i could show the variance in difference if you wish from primary sources if you wish- arabic or even persian translit.

quite aware of it just as there are varaitions in the list of who attended aqabah or badr

2

) As for Shurayh--a) Abu Musa al ashari and Al-Ashath b qays were also with Ali at Siffin- quite opportunistically i may add- as displayed by the threesomes later behaviours- does not mean- and i repeat the point which you seem to confuse - that there is a difference between entering the ranks as a soldier who is theologically an Alid and one who enters to cause division (you seem to forget the Prophets battles and his famous hypocritical companions being alongside him!- bad decision by the Prophet would you agree????

there is letter from ali to shurayh appointing him the vanguard of his troops, i have no confusrion regarding followers of ali apart from the confusion which is inherent in our historical sources

was AlAshtar theologically an alid ? who was and who wasnt a theologically an alid is there a list somewhere ?

3) b)Forget Hujr, please explain Shurays behaviour with Muslim b AQIL and the response he gave Bani Mudhaj when they asked where is Hani.

why forget hujr ? shuryah tried to help muslims sons but under the situation it wasnt enough

4) The infiltration at camps at Jamal was something known-and certainly did not highlight sincere motives- Look at Marwans famous answer in the Ansab when he is asked about his role- and he replies i shot arrows towards Ali and Ayeshas army.

marwan was trying to kill talha a opponent of uthman.perspnal motive

5) no such thing as a modern day sunni back then brother. Murjiites at most (me being kind).... You like academia, read Afsaruddin on this.

i agree sunni is a second century product too

6)On academia, you use Hinds, Poonwala, Madelung,- have you read the SCATHING attacks by their contemporaries on thier conclusions! Considering it is clear you cant actually read primary works- its better you stick to review articles. if im not mistaken the Martin Hinds you refer to is more concerned with the meccan aristocracy in his work on Uthman than any periphary egyptian groups

quite aware of it but their opponents havent produced works of their calibre on this subject, hinds name all groups in article

Provide me with primary sources in your analysis and not half analyses reviews.

are you qualified to handle primary ( which mostly are secondary sources in reality ) ?

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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Jazakallah for quoting this ahadith. Can you tell me who these shia are in the ahadith mentioned above ? Are they those shias supported Imam Ali (as) in Jamal and Siffin ?

salaam, the true shia of ali never gave allegiance to abubakr,umar,uthman,muawiyah,yazeed and the other caliphs of banu umayya and banu abbas, they were the ones who would give up their lives for the imam(as), we cant say all of those soldiers who were with imam ali in jamal and siffin were true shias of ali, because as you may know some of them left the battlefield when muawiyah and his men raised the quran on their spears some men on imam ali side left the imam, so the true ones were those who never left the imams of ahlulbayt(as) alone. but yes those who never left imams of ahlulbayt(as) in any circusmtances, they were the true shias of muhammad and ale muhammad(pbuh&f) and those who fought against ale muhammad(pbuh&f) were of course not shia or follower of prophet muhammad and ale muhammad(pbu&f).

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Yeah the "shia of Maula Ali (ra) never gave allegiance to the 3 Caliphs (ra) , yet Maula Ali (ra) did... considering that Maula Ali (ra) is Sher E Khuda and that he didnt fight or get involved in wars with the Caliphs but did after their terms as Caliph were over...now why is that> im sure you prob have an "answer to this as well'

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Yeah the "shia of Maula Ali (ra) never gave allegiance to the 3 Caliphs (ra) , yet Maula Ali (ra) did... considering that Maula Ali (ra) is Sher E Khuda and that he didnt fight or get involved in wars with the Caliphs but did after their terms as Caliph were over...now why is that> im sure you prob have an "answer to this as well'

That's a Sunni belief. Can you prove that other than Aisha hadith who started the battle of Jamal against Imam Ali (as) stating that he killed your Caliph Uthman and Do you not know Siffin where he fought your Caliph Mawiya (LA)?

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Sallam Alliekom

#1) in Sunni View, if not giving to a (Rightly Guided) Caliph Allegiance does that make him an apostate?

Furthermore.

#2) Muawiyah Didn't Give Allegiance to the 4th (Rightly Guided) Caliph, does that make him an apostate?

* If Answer to #1 is Yes than is Imam Ali (as) according to sunni Narations didn't Give Allegiance for 6 months does it Mean he apostated for 6 months Nauthbillah?

If No that Means People Have the Choice for not Giving Allegiance to a Rightly Guided Caliph, Than again those people who "didn't" pay zakah got to be Called Apostates

* If Answer to 2 is Yes, than why is there an exception for Imam Ali (as) for not giving Allegiance for 6 months? and why the need to put (ra) infront of his name "To Muawiyah"?

If No, than that means it's alright not to recognize a (Rightly Guided) Caliph, and you shouldn't get upset when a Shia Rejects the 1st Three just as you Didn't get upset For Muawiyah not giving Allegiance to the 4th Rightly Guided Caliph, and finally All Excuses been made to Muawiyah because he didnt Apostate for 1) Waging War against a (Rightly Guided) Caliph .. and 2) For not Giving Allegiance to the 4th Rightly Guided Caliph

Ofcourse Didn't mention his Other Crimes, which is still amazing why ppl still praise him :)

Edited by Dead-Man
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But Maula Ali (ra) didnt wage the war on the 3 caliphs, if he had a problem wouldnt have he said something ...and Imam Jafar Sadiq (ra) was also a descendant of Hzt AbuBakr Siddiq (ra) but did the Imam ever curse them...and if he did suppose- then why didnt his students Imam Malik and Imam Ahmed Hanbal do the same...

As for killing Hzt Uthman (ra) Sunni dont believe that Maula Ali (ra) did that or got it done, then why would he send the Imams (ra) to Hzt Uthmans (ra) house

And i never said that Maula Ali (ra) didnt deserve his spot., it shouldnt have been taken. From him in the 1st place... But logically wouldnt have Maula Ali (ra) said anything or done anything to the 1st three caliphs if he believed that it wasnt there right

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Jazakallah for quoting this ahadith. Can you tell me who these shia are in the ahadith mentioned above ? Are they those shias supported Imam Ali (as) in Jamal and Siffin ?

oh brother but they are the "true shias" or "theological shias" thats what the 12er imami response is

in reality ali had loyal and disloyal followers and from neutral ( i.e non imami sources) their sectarian orientation is unclear.We can determine from historical works who were loyal or disloyal to ali but that does not in anyway mean they neccesarily believed in the 12er imami doctrine of imamate.

Abu Musa al ashari and Al-Ashath b qays were also with Ali at Siffin- quite opportunistically i may add- as displayed by the threesomes later behaviours-

Abu Musa ashari WITH ali at siffin? which PRIMARY SOURCE did you find that in ?

abu musa was clearly neutral ONLY reason why ali retained him intially as governer of kufa was because Al Ashtar thought he was a good guy.He was dismissed later by ali.Abu Musa was appointed arbitrator by Ashath b qays ( who btw i dont like in anyway whose daughter was married to Hasan b ali ) since he was primarily interested in protecting interests of kufan ashraf.Ali only gave in to ashath's demand to keep the coalition against muawiyah viable it was a big blunder many advised against it including ibn abbas , adi b hatim and ahnaf b qays.

So Ashath b qays might be a supporter of ali at siffin but abu musa clearly isnt he never fought for ali

Edited by Panzerwaffe
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I think you skipped what i said:

I don't understand how Umar (ra) disputed?

& i also requested you for:

SAHEEH hadith on WOOD.

My friend, the Ahlul-bayt in all the Ahadith you posted is being used here in its literal cannotation (People who were in the house at that time) i.e the sahaba who were disputing each other.

Any arab can confirm that Ahlulbayt is used for more than one meaning in urf (customary usage) depending on context and can for example include even guests who are present in a certain house at a given time or the animals residing in one's house as pets of the owner of the house.

If you really think that the Ahadith you posted and the term Ahlulbayt used in them means Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain (a.s) than you need to change your opinion as the meaning is quite clear for this term in its usage here and is not connected to them in any way as any sharh of Sahih Bukhari will confirm and any one before has not argued so.

Edited by Islamic Salvation
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oh brother but they are the "true shias" or "theological shias" thats what the 12er imami response is

in reality ali had loyal and disloyal followers and from neutral ( i.e non imami sources) their sectarian orientation is unclear.We can determine from historical works who were loyal or disloyal to ali but that does not in anyway mean they neccesarily believed in the 12er imami doctrine of imamate.

I cited a reference from the commentary from Najh Al Balagha which says the majority who gave bayah to Imam Ali (as) accepted him as the 4th calipah. Yet, no 12rs is telling me whether these were Nasibis or not.

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My friend, the Ahlul-bayt in all the Ahadith you posted is being used here in its literal cannotation (People who were in the house at that time) i.e the sahaba who were disputing each other.

Any arab can confirm that Ahlulbayt is used for more than one meaning in urf (customary usage) depending on context and can for example include even guests who are present in a certain house at a given time or the animals residing in one's house as pets of the owner of the house.

If you really think that the Ahadith you posted and the term Ahlulbayt used in them means Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain (a.s) than you need to change your opinion as the meaning is quite clear for this term in its usage here and is not connected to them in any way as any sharh of Sahih Bukhari will confirm and any one before has not argued so.

i love to talk like shia's.

I didnot say Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain (ra) .

But i only said Ali (ra) was also there.

& why didnot you tell to your friend [zakzaki]: from arabic, it is not proved that umar (ra) disputed. But it means other member disputed.

& if he still argue then i say: Ali (ra) was also there & word "ahle-bayt" is used for household. (smile)

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i love to talk like shia's.

I didnot say Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Husain (ra) .

But i only said Ali (ra) was also there.

& why didnot you tell to your friend [zakzaki]: from arabic, it is not proved that umar (ra) disputed. But it means other member disputed.

& if he still argue then i say: Ali (ra) was also there & word "ahle-bayt" is used for household. (smile)

do you beleive in your books or no, it is obvious that umar started the dispute and the proof is ibn abbas that narrator,

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that:

Ibn Abbas said: "Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was!" Then Ibn

Abbas cried severely so that his tears flowed to his cheeks. Then he

added Prophet said: "Bring me a flat bone or a sheet and an ink so

that I could write (order to write) a statement that will prevent you

people to go astray after me." umar said: "Verily the messenger of

Allah is talking no sense." Reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of "Kitabul-Wasiyyah" in section "Babut-

Tarkil-Wasiyyah", 1980 Edition, Arabic version (Saudi Arabia), v3,

P1259, Tradition (#1637/21).

when ibn abbas is saying that umar said such a phrase to prophet which Allah says in quran that : "O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of

prophet ... lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive."

(Quran 49:2).

"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is

nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

i want to ask again, didnt umar raise his voice against the prophet? didnt umar said that the prophet is saying none sense? when quran is clear about it that prophet never speaks out of his desire , then who were umar and his freinds to say the prophet to be sayin none sense which is written in none other that sahih muslim.

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do you beleive in your books or no, it is obvious that umar started the dispute and the proof is ibn abbas that narrator,

It is narrated in Sahih Muslim that:

Ibn Abbas said: "Thursday! And how tragic that Thursday was!" Then Ibn

Abbas cried severely so that his tears flowed to his cheeks. Then he

added Prophet said: "Bring me a flat bone or a sheet and an ink so

that I could write (order to write) a statement that will prevent you

people to go astray after me." umar said: "Verily the messenger of

Allah is talking no sense." Reference: Sahih Muslim, Chapter of "Kitabul-Wasiyyah" in section "Babut-

Tarkil-Wasiyyah", 1980 Edition, Arabic version (Saudi Arabia), v3,

P1259, Tradition (#1637/21).

when ibn abbas is saying that umar said such a phrase to prophet which Allah says in quran that : "O you who believe! Do not raise your voices above the voice of

prophet ... lest your deeds become null while you do not perceive."

(Quran 49:2).

"Nor does he (prophet) speak out of his desire. (What he says) is

nothing but revelation that is revealed." (Quran 53:3-4).

"Whatever apostle tells you accept it, and from whatever he forbids

you, keep back." (Quran 59:7).

i want to ask again, didnt umar raise his voice against the prophet? didnt umar said that the prophet is saying none sense? when quran is clear about it that prophet never speaks out of his desire , then who were umar and his freinds to say the prophet to be sayin none sense which is written in none other that sahih muslim.

your translation [in red bolded text] is worst i have ever seen in my life.

& i assume al-islam.org is also fallible. (smile)

& don't panic. i already included this hadith here:

عن عبيد الله بن عبد الله بن عتبة عن بن عباس قال : ( لما حضر رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وفي البيت رجال فيهم عمر بن الخطاب فقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هلم أكتب لكم كتابا لا تضلون بعده فقال عمر إن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قد غلب عليه الوجع وعندكم القرآن حسبنا كتاب الله فاختلف أهل البيت فاختصموا فمنهم من يقول قربوا يكتب لكم رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم كتابا لن تضلوا بعده ومنهم من يقول ما قال عمر فلما أكثروا اللغو والاختلاف عند رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم قوموا

قال عبيد الله فكان بن عباس يقول إن الرزية كل الرزية ما حال بين رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وبين أن يكتب لهم ذلك الكتاب من اختلافهم ولغطهم ).

رواه مسلم حديث رقم ( 1637) كتاب الوصية / باب ترك الوصية لمن ليس له شيء يوصى فيه

Ubaidallah Bin Abdullah from Ibn Abbas : "On thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." Then Umar said: "the messenger of Allah is overcome by pain and you have the Quran, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". So Ahlulbayt Differed in their Opinions and disputed, some said come let the Prophet of Allah peace be upon him write us this book which we will never go astray after it and some said what Umar had said, When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to all of them, "go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that for them.

Dispute was between ahlul-bayt . Not by Umar .

& statement of Umar was not wrong even Ali claimed same thing:

فَكَفَى بِالْجَنَّةِ ثَوَاباً وَنَوَالاً، وَكَفى بَالنَّارِ عِقَاباً وَوَبَالاً! وَكَفَى بِاللهِ مُنْتَقِماً وَنَصِيراً! وَكَفَى بِالكِتَابِ حَجيجاً وَخَصِيماً

" And the Book of Allah is sufficient as proof(Argument) and as Confronter "

[Nahjul Balagha - Sermon al Gharra (sermon 82)]

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your translation [in red bolded text] is worst i have ever seen in my life.

& i assume al-islam.org is also fallible. (smile)

& don't panic. i already included this hadith here:

Úä ÚÈíÏ Çááå Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå Èä ÚÊÈÉ Úä Èä ÚÈÇÓ ÞÇá : ( áãÇ ÍÖÑ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÝí ÇáÈíÊ ÑÌÇá Ýíåã ÚãÑ Èä ÇáÎØÇÈ ÝÞÇá ÇáäÈí Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã åáã ÃßÊÈ áßã ßÊÇÈÇ áÇ ÊÖáæä ÈÚÏå ÝÞÇá ÚãÑ Åä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÏ ÛáÈ Úáíå ÇáæÌÚ æÚäÏßã ÇáÞÑÂä ÍÓÈäÇ ßÊÇÈ Çááå ÝÇÎÊáÝ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ ÝÇÎÊÕãæÇ Ýãäåã ãä íÞæá ÞÑÈæÇ íßÊÈ áßã ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ßÊÇÈÇ áä ÊÖáæÇ ÈÚÏå æãäåã ãä íÞæá ãÇ ÞÇá ÚãÑ ÝáãÇ ÃßËÑæÇ ÇááÛæ æÇáÇÎÊáÇÝ ÚäÏ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã ÞæãæÇ

ÞÇá ÚÈíÏ Çááå ÝßÇä Èä ÚÈÇÓ íÞæá Åä ÇáÑÒíÉ ßá ÇáÑÒíÉ ãÇ ÍÇá Èíä ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÓáã æÈíä Ãä íßÊÈ áåã Ðáß ÇáßÊÇÈ ãä ÇÎÊáÇÝåã æáÛØåã ).

ÑæÇå ãÓáã ÍÏíË ÑÞã ( 1637) ßÊÇÈ ÇáæÕíÉ / ÈÇÈ ÊÑß ÇáæÕíÉ áãä áíÓ áå ÔíÁ íæÕì Ýíå

Ubaidallah Bin Abdullah from Ibn Abbas : "On thursday the illness of Allah's Apostle was aggravated and he said, "Fetch me writing materials so that I may have something written to you after which you will never go astray." Then Umar said: "the messenger of Allah is overcome by pain and you have the Quran, the book of Allah is sufficient for us". So Ahlulbayt Differed in their Opinions and disputed, some said come let the Prophet of Allah peace be upon him write us this book which we will never go astray after it and some said what Umar had said, When they made much noise and differed greatly before the Prophet, he said to all of them, "go away and leave me." Ibn 'Abbas used to say, "It was a great disaster that their difference and noise prevented Allah's Apostle from writing that for them.

Dispute was between ahlul-bayt . Not by Umar .

& statement of Umar was not wrong even Ali claimed same thing:

ÝóßóÝóì ÈöÇáúÌóäóøÉö ËóæóÇÈÇð æóäóæóÇáÇð¡ æóßóÝì ÈóÇáäóøÇÑö ÚöÞóÇÈÇð æóæóÈóÇáÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇááåö ãõäúÊóÞöãÇð æóäóÕöíÑÇð! æóßóÝóì ÈöÇáßöÊóÇÈö ÍóÌíÌÇð æóÎóÕöíãÇð

" And the Book of Allah is sufficient as proof(Argument) and as Confronter "

[Nahjul Balagha - Sermon al Gharra (sermon 82)]

salaam

if imam ali(as) has said this, its because of his knowledge to quran, my freind, as u may know the imams have the knowledge of quran, but who was umar to prevent this (will ) when he himself does not know how to do tayammum? It is well known from the Prophet that the Prophet of Allah taught the companions how to make tayammum, even in the presence of 'Umar himself.

Abd al-Rabmin b. Abza narrated it on the authority of his father that a man came to 'Umar and said: I am (at times) affected by seminal emission but find no water. He ('Umar) told him not to say prayer. 'Ammar then said. Do you remember,0 Commander of the Faithful, when I and you were in a military detachment and we had had a seminal emission and did not find water (for taking bath) and you did not say prayer, but as for myself I rolled in dust and said prayer, and (when it was mentioned before) the Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: It was enough for you to strike the ground with your hands and then blow (the dust) and then wipe your face and palms. Umar said: 'Ammar, fear Allah. He said: If you so like, I would not narrate it.

Sahih Muslim Book 3, Number 718

Shaqiq reported:

I was sitting in the company of Abdullah and Abu Musa when Abu Musa said: 0 'Abd al-Rahman (kunya of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud), what would you like a man to do about the prayer if he experiences a seminal emission or has sexual intercourse but does not find water for a month? 'Abdullah said: He should not perform tayammum even if he does not find water for a month. 'Abdullah said: Then what about the verse in Sura Ma'ida:" If you do not find water, betake yourself to clean dust"? 'Abdullah said: If they were granted concession on the basis of this verse, there is a possibility that they would perform tayammum with dust on finding water very cold for themselves. Abu Musa said to Abdullah: You have not heard the words of 'Ammar: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent me on an errand and I had a seminal emission, but could find no water, and rolled myself in dust just as a beast rolls itself. I came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) then and made a mention of that to him and he (the Holy Prophet) said: It would have been enough for you to do thus. Then he struck the ground with his hands once and wiped his right hand with the help of his left hand and the exterior of his palms and his face. 'Abdullah said: Didn't you see that Umar was not fully satisfied with the words of 'Ammar only?

Sahih Muslim, Book 3, Number 716

when umar is clearly going against quran, how can he say that only quran is enough for him?

The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432

Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419

Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990

al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30

when the prophet of Allah is saying that after him is quran and ahlulbayt only which are not seperable, who was umar to tell people that only quran is enough?

who has given him the authority to go against the prophet(pbuh&f)?

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salaam

if imam ali(as) has said this, its because of his knowledge to quran, my freind, as u may know the imams have the knowledge of quran, but who was umar to prevent this (will ) when he himself does not know how to do tayammum? It is well known from the Prophet that the Prophet of Allah taught the companions how to make tayammum, even in the presence of 'Umar himself.

Abd al-Rabmin b. Abza narrated it on the authority of his father that a man came to 'Umar and said: I am (at times) affected by seminal emission but find no water. He ('Umar) told him not to say prayer. 'Ammar then said. Do you remember,0 Commander of the Faithful, when I and you were in a military detachment and we had had a seminal emission and did not find water (for taking bath) and you did not say prayer, but as for myself I rolled in dust and said prayer, and (when it was mentioned before) the Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: It was enough for you to strike the ground with your hands and then blow (the dust) and then wipe your face and palms. Umar said: 'Ammar, fear Allah. He said: If you so like, I would not narrate it.

Sahih Muslim Book 3, Number 718

Shaqiq reported:

I was sitting in the company of Abdullah and Abu Musa when Abu Musa said: 0 'Abd al-Rahman (kunya of 'Abdullah b. Mas'ud), what would you like a man to do about the prayer if he experiences a seminal emission or has sexual intercourse but does not find water for a month? 'Abdullah said: He should not perform tayammum even if he does not find water for a month. 'Abdullah said: Then what about the verse in Sura Ma'ida:" If you do not find water, betake yourself to clean dust"? 'Abdullah said: If they were granted concession on the basis of this verse, there is a possibility that they would perform tayammum with dust on finding water very cold for themselves. Abu Musa said to Abdullah: You have not heard the words of 'Ammar: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) sent me on an errand and I had a seminal emission, but could find no water, and rolled myself in dust just as a beast rolls itself. I came to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) then and made a mention of that to him and he (the Holy Prophet) said: It would have been enough for you to do thus. Then he struck the ground with his hands once and wiped his right hand with the help of his left hand and the exterior of his palms and his face. 'Abdullah said: Didn't you see that Umar was not fully satisfied with the words of 'Ammar only?

Sahih Muslim, Book 3, Number 716

when umar is clearly going against quran, how can he say that only quran is enough for him?

wow!

Now you changed the discussion.

you are shia & you don't know anything about sunni theology.

Did you checked the sharah of this hadith?

Let me tell you somehow:

see here: http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=003&translator=2&start=136&number=0712

you again missed the last sentence from the hadith of sahih muslim 718 & i consider you fallible. (smile)

Sahih Muslim Book 3, Number 718

0718- Abd al-Rabmin b. Abza narrated It on the authority of his father that a man came to 'Umar and said: I am (at times) affected by seminal emission but find no water. He ('Umar) told him not to say prayer. 'Ammar then said. Do you remember,0 Commander of the Faithful, when I and you were in a military detachment and we had had a seminal emission and did not find water (for taking bath) and you did not say prayer, but as for myself I rolled in dust and said prayer, and (when it was mentioned before) the Apostle (may peace be upon him) said: It was enough for you to strike the ground with your hands and then blow (the dust) and then wipe your face and palms. Umar said: 'Ammar, fear Allah. He said: If you so like, I would not narrate it.

A hadith like this has been transmitted with the same chain of transmitters but for the words: 'Umar said: We hold you responsible for what you claim."

We all know that Umar Al Khattab (ra) narrated hadith and he didn't stop people from doing so during his Caliphate even if it went against his position.

When Umar ibn Al Khattab told Ammar "fear Allah" he meant to say to him that he should fear Allah in regards to what he is narrating, for it is possible that he forgot the incident because Umar who was with him didnt' remember the story that way.

This is a possibility as stated by Imam Nawawi:

‏معناه قال عمر لعمار : اتق الله تعالى فيما ترويه وتثبت . فلعلك نسيت , أو اشتبه عليك الأمر . وأما قول عمار إن شئت لم أحدث به فمعناه , والله أعلم

And when Ammar replied back saying "If you so like, I would not narrate it", its not that he was willing to compromise his faith in order to obey Umar. Rather, the man was trying to say that if Umar saw that there was a greater benefit in the man not narrating the story over narrating it, then he would obey Umar in regards to that. Another possible meaning is that Ammar wouldn't narrate it in order to avoid becoming famous. So basically when Umar is telling Ammar "fear Allah", it meant "fear Allah and make your intention for narrating this hadith for the sake of Allah and not to gain fame". So Ammar thought it would have been better to avoid this potential sin by not narrating the hadith.

This is again what Imam Nawawi stated:

إن رأيت المصلحة في إمساكي عن التحديث به راجحة على مصلحة تحديثي به أمسكت , فإن طاعتك واجبة علي في غير المعصية , وأصل تبليغ هذه السنة وأداء العلم قد حصل , فإذا أمسك بعد هذا لا يكون داخلا فيمن كتم العلم . ويحتمل أنه أراد إن شئت لم أحدث به تحديثا شائعا بحيث يشتهر في الناس , بل لا أحدث به إلا نادرا . والله أعلم

& to back up my claim here is the hadith from bukhari which clearly says: Umar (ra) was present when messenger of Allah (pbuh) witnessed the same incident of tayammum with no water.

Bukhari, Book 1, Volume 7, Hadith 340

Narrated 'Imran:

Once we were traveling with the Prophet and we carried on traveling till the last part of the night and then we (halted at a place) and slept (deeply). There is nothing sweeter than sleep for a traveler in the last part of the night. So it was only the heat of the sun that made us to wake up and the first to wake up was so and so, then so and so and then so and so (the narrator 'Auf said that Abu Raja' had told him their names but he had forgotten them) and the fourth person to wake up was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab. And whenever the Prophet used to sleep, nobody would wake up him till he himself used to get up as we did not know what was happening (being revealed) to him in his sleep. So, 'Umar got up and saw the condition of the people, and he was a strict man, so he said, "Allahu Akbar" and raised his voice with Takbir, and kept on saying loudly till the Prophet got up because of it. When he got up, the people informed him about what had happened to them. He said, "There is no harm (or it will not be harmful). Depart!" So they departed from that place, and after covering some distance the Prophet stopped and asked for some water to perform the ablution. So he performed the ablution and the call for the prayer was pronounced and he led the people in prayer. After he finished from the prayer, he saw a man sitting aloof who had not prayed with the people. He asked, "O so and so! What has prevented you from praying with us?" He replied, "I am Junub and there is no water. " The Prophet said, "Perform Tayammum with (clean) earth and that is sufficient for you." ........

Note: So it is proved that the hadith understood by shia's is really absurd & strange.

Better learn sunni theology before applying your brain to sunni hadith or atleast consult sunni ulema for that.

The messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) said: "I am leaving for you two precious and weighty Symbols that if you adhere to BOTH of them you shall not go astray after me. They are, the Book of Allah, and my progeny, that is my Ahlul-Bayt. The Merciful has informed me that These two shall not separate from each other till they come to me by the Pool (of Paradise)."

Sunni references:

Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, pp 662-663,328, report of 30+ companions, with reference to several chains of transmitters.

al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, Chapter of "Understanding (the virtues) of Companions, v3, pp 109,110,148,533 who wrote this tradition is authentic (Sahih) based on the criteria of the two Shaikhs (al-Bukhari and Muslim).

Sunan, by Daarami, v2, p432

Musnad, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v3, pp 14,17,26,59, v4, pp 366,370-372, v5, pp 182,189,350,366,419

Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p585, Tradition #990

al-Khasa'is, by al-Nisa'i, pp 21,30

when the prophet of Allah is saying that after him is quran and ahlulbayt only which are not seperable, who was umar to tell people that only quran is enough?

who has given him the authority to go against the prophet(pbuh&f)?

mashallah. as you can see the pure sunni love for ahlu-bayt, because we have loads of hadith on love for ahlu-bayt but still ignorant shia called us nawasib. (smile)

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wow!

Now you changed the discussion.

you are shia & you don't know anything about sunni theology.

Did you checked the sharah of this hadith?

Let me tell you somehow:

see here: http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=003&translator=2&start=136&number=0712

you again missed the last sentence from the hadith of sahih muslim 718 & i consider you fallible. (smile)

We all know that Umar Al Khattab (ra) narrated hadith and he didn't stop people from doing so during his Caliphate even if it went against his position.

When Umar ibn Al Khattab told Ammar "fear Allah" he meant to say to him that he should fear Allah in regards to what he is narrating, for it is possible that he forgot the incident because Umar who was with him didnt' remember the story that way.

This is a possibility as stated by Imam Nawawi:

‏معناه قال عمر لعمار : اتق الله تعالى فيما ترويه وتثبت . فلعلك نسيت , أو اشتبه عليك الأمر . وأما قول عمار إن شئت لم أحدث به فمعناه , والله أعلم

And when Ammar replied back saying "If you so like, I would not narrate it", its not that he was willing to compromise his faith in order to obey Umar. Rather, the man was trying to say that if Umar saw that there was a greater benefit in the man not narrating the story over narrating it, then he would obey Umar in regards to that. Another possible meaning is that Ammar wouldn't narrate it in order to avoid becoming famous. So basically when Umar is telling Ammar "fear Allah", it meant "fear Allah and make your intention for narrating this hadith for the sake of Allah and not to gain fame". So Ammar thought it would have been better to avoid this potential sin by not narrating the hadith.

This is again what Imam Nawawi stated:

إن رأيت المصلحة في إمساكي عن التحديث به راجحة على مصلحة تحديثي به أمسكت , فإن طاعتك واجبة علي في غير المعصية , وأصل تبليغ هذه السنة وأداء العلم قد حصل , فإذا أمسك بعد هذا لا يكون داخلا فيمن كتم العلم . ويحتمل أنه أراد إن شئت لم أحدث به تحديثا شائعا بحيث يشتهر في الناس , بل لا أحدث به إلا نادرا . والله أعلم

& to back up my claim here is the hadith from bukhari which clearly says: Umar (ra) was present when messenger of Allah (pbuh) witnessed the same incident of tayammum with no water.

Bukhari, Book 1, Volume 7, Hadith 340

Narrated 'Imran:

Once we were traveling with the Prophet and we carried on traveling till the last part of the night and then we (halted at a place) and slept (deeply). There is nothing sweeter than sleep for a traveler in the last part of the night. So it was only the heat of the sun that made us to wake up and the first to wake up was so and so, then so and so and then so and so (the narrator 'Auf said that Abu Raja' had told him their names but he had forgotten them) and the fourth person to wake up was 'Umar bin Al-Khattab. And whenever the Prophet used to sleep, nobody would wake up him till he himself used to get up as we did not know what was happening (being revealed) to him in his sleep. So, 'Umar got up and saw the condition of the people, and he was a strict man, so he said, "Allahu Akbar" and raised his voice with Takbir, and kept on saying loudly till the Prophet got up because of it. When he got up, the people informed him about what had happened to them. He said, "There is no harm (or it will not be harmful). Depart!" So they departed from that place, and after covering some distance the Prophet stopped and asked for some water to perform the ablution. So he performed the ablution and the call for the prayer was pronounced and he led the people in prayer. After he finished from the prayer, he saw a man sitting aloof who had not prayed with the people. He asked, "O so and so! What has prevented you from praying with us?" He replied, "I am Junub and there is no water. " The Prophet said, "Perform Tayammum with (clean) earth and that is sufficient for you." ........

Note: So it is proved that the hadith understood by shia's is really absurd & strange.

Better learn sunni theology before applying your brain to sunni hadith or atleast consult sunni ulema for that.

mashallah. as you can see the pure sunni love for ahlu-bayt, because we have loads of hadith on love for ahlu-bayt but still ignorant shia called us nawasib. (smile)

if you are saying that u love ahlulbayt(as) then why do you love their oppressors? you either have to love the haq or the batil, you cant love both of them.

when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam Ali (as) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (as), as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in

response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (as) has displeased the Prophet

and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall

meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al- Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14). what would you say about this? why do you love abubakr and umar when lady zahra (sa) is clearly saying that she is going to complain about them to RASULALLAH? if you really love the ahlulbayt(as) then you should be enemy of their enemies. look at what the prophet said about his progeny which is also prove that those who love the ahlulbayt(as) love the prophet(pbuh&f) and those who hate the ahlulbayt hate the prophet in reality.

Abu Huraira narrated:

The Prophet (PBUH&HF) looked toward Ali, al-Hasan, al-Husain, and

Fatimah, and said: "I am in the state of war with those who will fight

you, and in the state of peace with those who are peaceful to you."

Sunni references:

(1) Sahih al-Tirmidhi, v5, p699

(2) Sunan Ibn Majah, v1, p52

(3) Fada'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p767, Tradition #1350

(4) al-Mustadrak, by al-Hakim, v3, p149

(5) Majma' al-Zawa'id, by al-Haythami, v9, p169

(6) al-Kabir, by Tabarani, v3, p30, also in al-Awsat

if you nawasib really love the ahlulbayt of the prophet and if you really love the prophet, then you would not love those with whom prophet is in state of war. you would never give your allegiance to such individuals.

you have to choose brother, either haq or batil, and you have to answer Allah.

Edited by imamia
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if you are saying that u love ahlulbayt(as) then why do you love their oppressors? you either have to love the haq or the batil, you cant love both of them.

batil according to your thought & fabrication.

But our view is that they all love each other.

& Allah honored sahaba in quran with very very clear verses, & those verses are so so clear that in your life you will not find your base verse of wilayat/imamat of 12.

But who cares?

& you know not.

when Abu Bakr and Umar sought the mediation of Imam Ali (as) to visit the ailing Hadhrat Fatimah (as), as quoted by Ibn Qutaybah, she tured her face to the wall when they greeted her and in

response to their plea for appeasement reminded them of the prophetic declaration that one who displeases Fatimah (as) has displeased the Prophet

and finally said: "I take Allah and the angels to be my witness that you have not pleased me; on the other hand, you have angered me. When I shall

meet the Prophet (PBUH&HF) I will complain about you two." (al-Imamah wa al- Siyasah, by Ibn Qutaybah, v1, p14). what would you say about this? why do you love abubakr and umar when lady zahra (sa) is clearly saying that she is going to complain about them to RASULALLAH? if you really love the ahlulbayt(as) then you should be enemy of their enemies.

My deen is not built in non trustworthy reports.

Better rely on trustworthy reports like this one which clearly says Abu bakr (ra) & fatima (ra) was pleased with each other before her death:

When Fatima became ill, Abu Bakr came to her and asked for permission to enter. So Ali said, ‘O Fatima, this is Abu Bakr asking for permission to enter.’ She answerd, ‘Do you want me to give him permission?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So she allowed him (to enter), and he came in seeking her pleasure, so he told her: ‘By Allah, I only left my home and property and my family seeking the pleasure of Allah and His Messenger and you, O Ahlel Bayt.’ So he talked to her until she was pleased with him.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi, vol 6)

This Hadith is narrated by Bayhaqi in al Sunan al Kubra (6:300-301) and Dala’il al-Nubuwwa (7:273-281) who said: “It is narrated with a good (hasan) chain.” Muhibb al Din al-Tabari cited it in al Riyad Al Nadira (2:96-97 #534) and Dhahabi in the Siyar (Ibid).

لما مرضت فاطمة أتاها أبو بكر الصديق فاستأذن عليها فقال علي يا فاطمة هذا أبو بكر يستأذن عليك فقالت أتحب أن آذن له قال نعم فأذنت له فدخل عليها يترضاها فقال والله ما تركت الدار والمال والأهل والعشيرة إلا ابتغاء مرضاة الله ومرضاة رسوله ومرضاتكم أهل البيت ثم ترضاها حتى رضيت

Al-Bayhaqi, Ibn Kathir, and Ibn Hajar all authenticate this hadith & Ibn Kathir states it as Sahih in his Al Bidayah and Ibn Hajar in his Fath Al Bari.

& Hafiz ibn Katheer in “Bidaya wal Nihaya” vol 7, chapter “شيء من فضائل أمير المؤمنين علي بن أبي طالب” wrote:

وقد ثبت عنه بالتواتر أنه قال على منبر الكوفة‏:‏ أيها الناس‏!‏ إن خير هذه الأمة بعد نبيها أبو بكر ثم عمر، ولو شئت أن أسمي الثالث لسميت‏

“And it’s proven from him [Ali] in “tawatur” form, that He said on the minbaar in Kufa: “O people! The best one in this Ummah after her Prophet is Abu Bakr [ra] , then Umar [ra] . And if I wanted to say you the third name, I would do that.”

So what is the ruling of denying tawatur? Few weak and gharib narrations or narrations took out of context can’t over rule tawatur and Ijma.

Edited by ibn.askari
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batil according to your thought & fabrication.

But our view is that they all love each other.

& Allah honored sahaba in quran with very very clear verses, & those verses are so so clear that in your life you will not find your base verse of wilayat/imamat of 12.

But who cares?

& you know not.

My deen is not built in non trustworthy reports.

Better rely on trustworthy reports like this one which clearly says Abu bakr (ra) & fatima (ra) was pleased with each other before her death:

When Fatima became ill, Abu Bakr came to her and asked for permission to enter. So Ali said, ‘O Fatima, this is Abu Bakr asking for permission to enter.’ She answerd, ‘Do you want me to give him permission?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So she allowed him (to enter), and he came in seeking her pleasure, so he told her: ‘By Allah, I only left my home and property and my family seeking the pleasure of Allah and His Messenger and you, O Ahlel Bayt.’ So he talked to her until she was pleased with him.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi, vol 6)

This Hadith is narrated by Bayhaqi in al Sunan al Kubra (6:300-301) and Dala’il al-Nubuwwa (7:273-281) who said: “It is narrated with a good (hasan) chain.” Muhibb al Din al-Tabari cited it in al Riyad Al Nadira (2:96-97 #534) and Dhahabi in the Siyar (Ibid).

áãÇ ãÑÖÊ ÝÇØãÉ ÃÊÇåÇ ÃÈæ ÈßÑ ÇáÕÏíÞ ÝÇÓÊÃÐä ÚáíåÇ ÝÞÇá Úáí íÇ ÝÇØãÉ åÐÇ ÃÈæ ÈßÑ íÓÊÃÐä Úáíß ÝÞÇáÊ ÃÊÍÈ Ãä ÂÐä áå ÞÇá äÚã ÝÃÐäÊ áå ÝÏÎá ÚáíåÇ íÊÑÖÇåÇ ÝÞÇá æÇááå ãÇ ÊÑßÊ ÇáÏÇÑ æÇáãÇá æÇáÃåá æÇáÚÔíÑÉ ÅáÇ ÇÈÊÛÇÁ ãÑÖÇÉ Çááå æãÑÖÇÉ ÑÓæáå æãÑÖÇÊßã Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ Ëã ÊÑÖÇåÇ ÍÊì ÑÖíÊ

Al-Bayhaqi, Ibn Kathir, and Ibn Hajar all authenticate this hadith & Ibn Kathir states it as Sahih in his Al Bidayah and Ibn Hajar in his Fath Al Bari.

& Hafiz ibn Katheer in “Bidaya wal Nihaya” vol 7, chapter “ÔíÁ ãä ÝÖÇÆá ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ” wrote:

æÞÏ ËÈÊ Úäå ÈÇáÊæÇÊÑ Ãäå ÞÇá Úáì ãäÈÑ ÇáßæÝÉþ:þ ÃíåÇ ÇáäÇÓþ!þ Åä ÎíÑ åÐå ÇáÃãÉ ÈÚÏ äÈíåÇ ÃÈæ ÈßÑ Ëã ÚãÑ¡ æáæ ÔÆÊ Ãä ÃÓãí ÇáËÇáË áÓãíÊþ

“And it’s proven from him [Ali] in “tawatur” form, that He said on the minbaar in Kufa: “O people! The best one in this Ummah after her Prophet is Abu Bakr [ra] , then Umar [ra] . And if I wanted to say you the third name, I would do that.”

So what is the ruling of denying tawatur? Few weak and gharib narrations or narrations took out of context can’t over rule tawatur and Ijma.

^^^^

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

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^^^^

Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325:

Narrated 'Ayesha: (mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqah (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.

mudraj hadith.

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