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In the Name of God بسم الله

Concept Of Wilayat

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goharjanjua

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Assalam o Alaikum.

i just want to say that Shia's call Hazrat Ali (ra) as WALI-ULLAH. And ask help from him , whenever in trouble or even when greeting each other. they say YA ALI MADAD.....

isnt that wrong in accordance to this ayat.

Surah Az-Zumar aya-03

Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allâh only. And those who take Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allâh." Verily, Allâh will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allâh guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

Shukria

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Assalam o Alaikum.

i just want to say that Shia's call Hazrat Ali (ra) as WALI-ULLAH. And ask help from him , whenever in trouble or even when greeting each other. they say YA ALI MADAD.....

isnt that wrong in accordance to this ayat.

Surah Az-Zumar aya-03

Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allâh only. And those who take Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allâh." Verily, Allâh will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allâh guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

Shukria

Alhamdulillah, you've actually fallen into two errors in fallacious reasoning with this question:

1) obedience has been added into brackets after religion, yet the Qur'an commands us to Obey the Prophet (SAW) and those vested in authority from amongst ourselves in another verse of the Qur'an- since I don't believe the Qur'an has any contradictions, your interpretation must be wrong here.

2) No one believes we are worshipping the Imams (as), ASK ANY SHIA ABOUT THIS! Where as these Mushrikeen openly admitted to worship.

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Alhamdulillah, you've actually fallen into two errors in fallacious reasoning with this question:

1) obedience has been added into brackets after religion, yet the Qur'an commands us to Obey the Prophet (SAW) and those vested in authority from amongst ourselves in another verse of the Qur'an- since I don't believe the Qur'an has any contradictions, your interpretation must be wrong here.

2) No one believes we are worshipping the Imams (as), ASK ANY SHIA ABOUT THIS! Where as these Mushrikeen openly admitted to worship.

tell me then.. isnt saying ya ali madad cosidered in shirk. because u are refering to someone other than Allah..?

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Shirk disguised behind intercession.

Yes it is wrong, and you will see this practice in regions where polytheistic religions exist. Meaning, in some part of the worlds, both shias and sunnis do this, while in other parts, both don't. Clearly, this is shirk, disgusting lack of faith in Allah.

fact is, shaytan asked Allah for something and Allah granted it, there is no excuse.

ya Allah madad

oh and they will say it isn't shirk, like the christians that say that they are not polytheists when they bow down to statues and call on mary or jesus.

Replace statues by graves/shrines, and replace mary/jesus by ali.

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Shirk disguised behind intercession.

Yes it is wrong, and you will see this practice in regions where polytheistic religions exist. Meaning, in some part of the worlds, both shias and sunnis do this, while in other parts, both don't. Clearly, this is shirk, disgusting lack of faith in Allah.

fact is, shaytan asked Allah for something and Allah granted it, there is no excuse.

ya Allah madad

oh and they will say it isn't shirk, like the christians that say that they are not polytheists when they bow down to statues and call on mary or jesus.

Replace statues by graves/shrines, and replace mary/jesus by ali.

Which scholar before Ibn Taymiyyah also has this belief which you do?

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Shirk disguised behind intercession.

Yes it is wrong, and you will see this practice in regions where polytheistic religions exist. Meaning, in some part of the worlds, both shias and sunnis do this, while in other parts, both don't. Clearly, this is shirk, disgusting lack of faith in Allah.

fact is, shaytan asked Allah for something and Allah granted it, there is no excuse.

ya Allah madad

oh and they will say it isn't shirk, like the christians that say that they are not polytheists when they bow down to statues and call on mary or jesus.

Replace statues by graves/shrines, and replace mary/jesus by ali.

but a shia friend of mine is always telling me that u have to use a Wasseela to get to Allah.

Even Allah used hazrat Jibraeel (as) as a waseela to convey quran to Mohammad (pbuh)

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but a shia friend of mine is always telling me that u have to use a Wasseela to get to Allah.

Even Allah used hazrat Jibraeel (as) as a waseela to convey quran to Mohammad (pbuh)

did shaytan use a wasilah?

Bro, you have to put your limits somewhere. Otherwise, one might say "I use idols as a wasila to pray Allah".

Look, it is simple.

There are a defined set of actions that are considered worship.

Invocations and prayer has always been known to be the essence of worship.

So please understand that when you pray or invoke other than Allah, you've given Allah a partner.

THERE'S NO WAY OUT OF THIS.

look up the verse where Allah says "Ask Me, I will answer you, and those who don't like my service will go to hellfire."

Do we have an excuse not to ask Allah?

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Surah Aal-e-Imran (verse 81)

When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there WILL come UNTO YOU a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall HELP him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.

Now the Prophets HAD to help Rasulullah (s) as a binding condition of their Prophethood. How could they do that if they were dead

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 5.59

Narrated Anas:

Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al-'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, "O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain." And they would be given rain."

Imam Ali and all the martyrs are alive as Quran clearly testifies, though they are not on the earth. So please do not treat them as dead. Allah states in Quran:

Think not of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord."

(Quran 3:169)

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Surah Aal-e-Imran (verse 81)

When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there WILL come UNTO YOU a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall HELP him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.

Now the Prophets HAD to help Rasulullah (s) as a binding condition of their Prophethood. How could they do that if they were dead

Sahih al-Bukhari Hadith: 5.59

Narrated Anas:

Whenever there was drought, 'Umar bin Al-Khattab used to ask Allah for rain through Al-'Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib, saying, "O Allah! We used to request our Prophet to ask You for rain, and You would give us. Now we request the uncle of our Prophet to ask You for rain, so give us rain." And they would be given rain."

Imam Ali and all the martyrs are alive as Quran clearly testifies, though they are not on the earth. So please do not treat them as dead. Allah states in Quran:

Think not of those who are martyred in the way of Allah as dead. Nay! They are living, finding their sustenance in the presence of their Lord."

(Quran 3:169)

If they are not dead then why are they in their graves and you mourn their martyrdom every year?

Comprehension problems is all I see.

Do what you want to do, you've been warned against it:

2:165

2:186

4:116

4:117

6:14

6:19

6:40

6:41

6:56

6:63

6:64

6:71

7:28

7:29

7:37

7:55

7:191

7:192

7:194

7:196

7:197

10:18

10:66

10:104

10:106

11:101

13:14

13:16

15:96

16:20

16:27

16:53

16:86

17:22

17:39

17:42

17:67

18:14

18:15

18:52

19:48

22:12

22:13

22:62

22:71

22:73

23:117

26:213

27:62

28:62

28:64

28:74

28:88

29:65

30:13

30:35

30:52

31:32

32:4

34:22

35:14

35:40

39:3

39:8

39:38

39:43

39:49

40:12

40:14

40:20

40:60

40:66

40:74

41:47

41:48

43:86

46:4

46:5

50:26

72:18

72:20

72:22

74:48

And if this is not enough for you, here are duas found in the Book of Allah. What did Allah teach us? Who do believers invoke?

1. Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing [2:127]

2. Our Lord! Make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful [2:128]

3. Our Lord! Grant us good in this world and good in the hereafter, and save us from the chastisement of the fire [2:201]

4. Our Lord! Bestow on us endurance, make our foothold sure, and give us help against the disbelieving folk [2:250]

5. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error [2:286]

6. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us [2:286]

7. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith [2:286]

8. Our Lord! (they say), Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure [3:8]

9. Our Lord! Thou art He that will gather mankind Together against a day about which there is no doubt; for Allah never fails in His promise. [3:9]

10. Our Lord! We have indeed believed: forgive us, then, our sins, and save us from the agony of the Fire [3:16]

11. Our Lord! We believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. Then write us down among those who bear witness [3:53]

12. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and anything We may have done that transgressed our duty: Establish our feet firmly, and help us against those that resist Faith [3:147]

13.Our Lord! Not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire [3:191]

14. Our Lord! Any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers! [3:192]

15. Our Lord! We have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. [3:193]

16. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous [3:193]

17. Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise [3:194]

18. Our Lord! We believe; write us down among the witnesses. [5:83]

19. O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs) [5:114]

20. Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost. [7:23]

21. Our Lord! Send us not to the company of the wrong-doers [7:47]

22. Our Lord! Decide Thou between us and our people in truth, for Thou art the best to decide. [7:89]

23.Our Lord! Pour out on us patience and constancy, and take our souls unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will)! [7:126]

24. Our Lord! Make us not a trial for those who practise oppression; And deliver us by Thy Mercy from those who reject (Thee) [10:85-86]

25. O our Lord! Truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven [14:38]

26. O our Lord! And accept my Prayer. [14:40]

27. O our Lord! Cover (us) with Thy Forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all) Believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established! [14:41]

28. Our Lord! Bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way! [18:10]

29. Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds [20: 45]

30. Our Lord! We believe; then do Thou forgive us, and have mercy upon us: For Thou art the Best of those who show mercy [23: 109]

31. Our Lord! Avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,- Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in. [25: 65-66]

32. O my Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous [25:74]

33. Our Lord is indeed Oft-Forgiving Ready to appreciate (service) [35: 34]

34. Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire! [40:7]

35. And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom. And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed: and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement. [40:8-9]

36. Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. [59:10]

37. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful. [59:10]

38. Our Lord! In Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal [60:4]

39. Our Lord! Make us not a (test and) trial for the Unbelievers, but forgive us, our Lord! for Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [60:5]

40. Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things. [66:8]

------

Enough said.

Which scholar before Ibn Taymiyyah also has this belief which you do?

Is Rasul Allah not enough as an example for you? Who did he invoke? Which prophet before him invoked other than Allah? Truly people do not know what makes Islam different from the rest.

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Assalam o Alaikum.

i just want to say that Shia's call Hazrat Ali (ra) as WALI-ULLAH. And ask help from him , whenever in trouble or even when greeting each other. they say YA ALI MADAD.....

isnt that wrong in accordance to this ayat.

Surah Az-Zumar aya-03

Surely, the religion (i.e. the worship and the obedience) is for Allâh only. And those who take Auliyâ' (protectors and helpers) besides Him (say): "We worship them only that they may bring us near to Allâh." Verily, Allâh will judge between them concerning that wherein they differ. Truly, Allâh guides not him who is a liar, and a disbeliever.

Shukria

[5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

'those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.' is for Ali(A.S.) so he is Vali in Quran.

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[5:55] Only Allah is your Vali and His Messenger and those who believe, those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.

'those who keep up prayers and pay the poor-rate while they bow.' is for Ali(A.S.) so he is Vali in Quran.

how do you say it is said for hazrat Ali (ra).

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If they are not dead then why are they in their graves and you mourn their martyrdom every year?

Comprehension problems is all I see.

Do what you want to do, you've been warned against it:

2:165

2:186

4:116

4:117

6:14

6:19

6:40

6:41

6:56

6:63

6:64

6:71

7:28

7:29

7:37

7:55

7:191

7:192

7:194

7:196

7:197

10:18

10:66

10:104

10:106

11:101

13:14

13:16

15:96

16:20

16:27

16:53

16:86

17:22

17:39

17:42

17:67

18:14

18:15

18:52

19:48

22:12

22:13

22:62

22:71

22:73

23:117

26:213

27:62

28:62

28:64

28:74

28:88

29:65

30:13

30:35

30:52

31:32

32:4

34:22

35:14

35:40

39:3

39:8

39:38

39:43

39:49

40:12

40:14

40:20

40:60

40:66

40:74

41:47

41:48

43:86

46:4

46:5

50:26

72:18

72:20

72:22

74:48

And if this is not enough for you, here are duas found in the Book of Allah. What did Allah teach us? Who do believers invoke?

1. Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing [2:127]

2. Our Lord! Make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful [2:128]

3. Our Lord! Grant us good in this world and good in the hereafter, and save us from the chastisement of the fire [2:201]

4. Our Lord! Bestow on us endurance, make our foothold sure, and give us help against the disbelieving folk [2:250]

5. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error [2:286]

6. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us [2:286]

7. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith [2:286]

8. Our Lord! (they say), Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure [3:8]

9. Our Lord! Thou art He that will gather mankind Together against a day about which there is no doubt; for Allah never fails in His promise. [3:9]

10. Our Lord! We have indeed believed: forgive us, then, our sins, and save us from the agony of the Fire [3:16]

11. Our Lord! We believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. Then write us down among those who bear witness [3:53]

12. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and anything We may have done that transgressed our duty: Establish our feet firmly, and help us against those that resist Faith [3:147]

13.Our Lord! Not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire [3:191]

14. Our Lord! Any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers! [3:192]

15. Our Lord! We have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. [3:193]

16. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous [3:193]

17. Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise [3:194]

18. Our Lord! We believe; write us down among the witnesses. [5:83]

19. O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs) [5:114]

20. Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost. [7:23]

21. Our Lord! Send us not to the company of the wrong-doers [7:47]

22. Our Lord! Decide Thou between us and our people in truth, for Thou art the best to decide. [7:89]

23.Our Lord! Pour out on us patience and constancy, and take our souls unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will)! [7:126]

24. Our Lord! Make us not a trial for those who practise oppression; And deliver us by Thy Mercy from those who reject (Thee) [10:85-86]

25. O our Lord! Truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven [14:38]

26. O our Lord! And accept my Prayer. [14:40]

27. O our Lord! Cover (us) with Thy Forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all) Believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established! [14:41]

28. Our Lord! Bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way! [18:10]

29. Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds [20: 45]

30. Our Lord! We believe; then do Thou forgive us, and have mercy upon us: For Thou art the Best of those who show mercy [23: 109]

31. Our Lord! Avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,- Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in. [25: 65-66]

32. O my Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous [25:74]

33. Our Lord is indeed Oft-Forgiving Ready to appreciate (service) [35: 34]

34. Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire! [40:7]

35. And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom. And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed: and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement. [40:8-9]

36. Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. [59:10]

37. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful. [59:10]

38. Our Lord! In Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal [60:4]

39. Our Lord! Make us not a (test and) trial for the Unbelievers, but forgive us, our Lord! for Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [60:5]

40. Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things. [66:8]

------

Enough said.

look up the verse where Allah says "Ask Me, I will answer you, and those who don't like my service will go to hellfire."

People of Moses asked him for water. And Moses Prayed to Allah for water on behalf of his People.Is it Shirk?

[7:160] We divided them into twelve tribes or nations. We directed Moses by inspiration, when his (thirsty) people asked him for water: "Strike the rock with thy staff": out of it there gushed forth twelve springs: Each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds, and sent down to them manna and quails, (saying): "Eat of the good things We have provided for you": (but they rebelled); to Us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.

[2:60] And when Musa prayed for drink for his people, We said: Strike the rock with your staff So there gushed from it twelve springs; each tribe knew its drinking place: Eat and drink of the provisions of Allah and do not act corruptly in the land, making mischief.

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People of Moses asked him for water. And Moses Prayed to Allah for water on behalf of his People.Is it Shirk?

[7:160] We divided them into twelve tribes or nations. We directed Moses by inspiration, when his (thirsty) people asked him for water: "Strike the rock with thy staff": out of it there gushed forth twelve springs: Each group knew its own place for water. We gave them the shade of clouds, and sent down to them manna and quails, (saying): "Eat of the good things We have provided for you": (but they rebelled); to Us they did no harm, but they harmed their own souls.

[2:60] And when Musa prayed for drink for his people, We said: Strike the rock with your staff So there gushed from it twelve springs; each tribe knew its drinking place: Eat and drink of the provisions of Allah and do not act corruptly in the land, making mischief.

Nobody said it is not permissible to ask someone to pray for you or to pray for someone.You cannot ask someone who is not in this world, because by definition it is not asking, you're invoking them. If you do, then you've given divinity to thoses saints.

Really, it's simple. In Islam there is no detour, Allah is always listening to our duas. If you need something, invoke Him, there's really nothing difficult to understand.

But ofc, people will still deny and reduce Allah to a wordly king who refuses to listen to his servants.

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[2:165] Yet, some people set up idols to rival GOD, and love them as if they are GOD. Those who believe love GOD the most. If only the transgressors could see themselves when they see the retribution! They will realize then that all power belongs to GOD alone, and that GOD's retribution is awesome

[2:186] When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers when they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided.

God forgiveth not (the sin of) joining other gods with Him;...one who joins other gods with God, hath strayed far, far away (from the Right) (HOLY QURAN 4:116).

[4:117] They even worship female gods besides Him; as a matter of fact, they only worship a rebellious devil

6:14] Say, "Shall I accept other than GOD as a Lord and Master, when He is the Initiator of the heavens and the earth, and He feeds but is not fed?" Say, "I am commanded to be the most devoted submitter, and, `Do not be an idol worshiper.

6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

6:20] Those to whom we have given the scripture recognize this as they recognize their own children. The ones who lose their souls are those who do not believe

6:40] Say, "What if GOD's retribution came to you, or the Hour came to you: would you implore other than GOD, if you are truthful?”

[6:41] The fact is: only Him you implore, and He answers your prayer, if He so wills, and you forget your idols you have a

[6:56] Say, "I am forbidden from worshipping what you worship besides GOD." Say, "I will not follow your opinions. Otherwise, I will go astray, and not be guided."

[6:63] Say, "Who can save you from the darkness of the land or the sea?" You implore Him loudly and secretly: "If He saves us this time, we will be eternally appreciative."

[6:64] Say, "GOD does save you this time, and other times as well, then you still set up idols besides Him."

[6:65] Say, "He is certainly able to pour upon you retribution from above you, or from beneath your feet. Or He can divide you into factions and have you taste each others' tyranny. Note how we explain the revelations, that they may understand."

[6:71] Say, "Shall we implore, beside GOD, what possesses no power to benefit us or hurt us, and turn back on our heels after GOD has guided us? In that case, we would join those possessed by the devils, and rendered utterly confused, while their friends try to save them: `Stay with us on the right path.' " Say, "GOD's guidance is the right guidance. We are commanded to submit to the Lord of the universe.

[7:28] They commit a gross sin, then say, "We found our parents doing this, and GOD has commanded us to do it." Say, "GOD never advocates sin. Are you saying about GOD what you do not know?"

[7:29] Say, "My Lord advocates justice, and to stand devoted to Him alone at every place of worship. You shall devote your worship absolutely to Him alone. Just as He initiated you, you will ultimately go back to Him.

[7:37] Who is more evil than those who invent lies about GOD, or reject His revelations? These will get their share, in accordance with the scripture, then, when our messengers come to terminate their lives, they will say, "Where are the idols you used to implore beside GOD?" They will say, "They have abandoned us." They will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers

7:55] You shall worship your Lord publicly and privately; He does not love the transgressors

[7:191] Is it not a fact that they are idolizing idols who create nothing, and are themselves created?

[7:192] Idols that can neither help them, nor even help themselves?

7:194] The idols you invoke besides GOD are creatures like you. Go ahead and call upon them; let them respond to you, if you are right.

. 7:196] "GOD is my only Lord and Master; the One who revealed this scripture. He protects the righteous.

[7:197] "As for the idols you set up beside Him, they cannot help you, nor can they help themselves."

[10:18] They worship beside GOD idols that possess no power to harm them or benefit them, and they say, "These are our intercessors at GOD!" Say, "Are you informing GOD of something He does not know in the heavens or the earth?" Be He glorified. He is the Most High; far above needing partners.

[10:66] Absolutely, to GOD belongs everyone in the heavens and everyone on earth. Those who set up idols beside GOD are really following nothing. They only think that they are following something. They only guess

[10:104] Say, "O people, if you have any doubt regarding my religion, I do not worship what you worship beside GOD. I worship GOD alone; the One who will terminate your lives. I am commanded to be a believer."

[10:106] "You shall not worship beside GOD what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you. If you do, you will be a transgressor."

[11:101] We never wronged them; they wronged their own souls. Their gods, whom they invoked beside GOD, could not help them in the least when the judgment of your Lord came. In fact, they only ensured their doom.

[32:14] Taste the consequences of your forgetting this day; now we forget you. You have incurred eternal retribution in return for your own works.

[32:16] Their sides readily forsake their beds, in order to worship their Lord, out of reverence and hope, and from our provisions to them, they give

[15:96] who set up another god beside GOD. They will surely find out.

.. 16:20] As for the idols they set up beside GOD, they do not create anything; they themselves were created

[16:27] Then, on the Day of Resurrection, He will disgrace them and ask, "Where are My partners that you had set up beside Me, and had opposed Me for their sake?" Those blessed with knowledge will say, "Today, the shame and misery have befallen the disbelievers.

[16:53] Any blessing you enjoy is from GOD. Yet, whenever you incur any adversity, you immediately complain to Him

[16:86] And when those who committed idol worship see their idols, they will say, "Our Lord, these are the idols we had set up beside You." The idols will then confront them and say, "You are liars."

[17:22] You shall not set up any other god beside GOD, lest you end up despised and disgraced

[17:39] This is some of the wisdom inspired to you by your Lord. You shall not set up another god beside GOD, lest you end up in Gehenna, blamed and defeated.

17:42] Say, "If there were any other gods beside Him, as they claim, they would have tried to overthrow the Possessor of the throne."

[17:67] If you are afflicted in the middle of the sea, you forget your idols and sincerely implore Him alone. But as soon as He saves you to the shore, you revert. Indeed, the human being is unappreciative

[18:14] We strengthened their hearts when they stood up and proclaimed: "Our only Lord is the Lord of the heavens and the earth. We will never worship any other god beside Him. Otherwise, we would be far astray.

18:15] "Here are our people setting up gods beside Him. If only they could provide any proof to support their stand! Who is more evil than the one who fabricates lies and attributes them to GOD?

[18:52] The day will come when He says, "Call upon My partners, whom you claimed to be gods beside Me," they will call on them, but they will not respond to them. An insurmountable barrier will separate them from each other.

[19:48] "I will abandon you and the gods you worship beside GOD. I will worship only my Lord. By imploring my Lord alone, I cannot go wrong."

[22:12] He idolizes beside GOD what possesses no power to harm him or benefit him; such is the real straying

[22:13] He idolizes what is more apt to harm him than benefit him. What a miserable lord! What a miserable companion

22:62] It is a fact that GOD is the Truth, while the setting up of any idols beside Him constitutes a falsehood, and that GOD is the Most High, the Supreme.

22:71] Yet, they idolize beside GOD idols wherein He placed no power, and they know nothing about them. The transgressors have no helper.

22:73] O people, here is a parable that you must ponder carefully: the idols you set up beside GOD can never create a fly, even if they banded together to do so. Furthermore, if the fly steals anything from them, they cannot recover it; weak is the pursuer and the pursued.

[23:117] Anyone who idolizes beside GOD any other god, and without any kind of proof, his reckoning rests with his Lord. The disbelievers never succeed.

[26:213] Therefore, do not idolize beside GOD any other god, lest you incur the retribution.

[27:62] Who is the One who rescues those who become desperate and call upon Him, relieves adversity, and makes you inheritors of the earth? Is it another god with GOD? Rarely do you take heed

[28:62] The day will come when He calls upon them, saying, "Where are those idols you had set up beside Me?

[28:64] It will be said, "Call upon your idols (to help you)." They will call upon them, but they will not respond. They will suffer the retribution, and wish that they were guided!

[28:74] The day will come when He asks them, "Where are the idols you had fabricated to rank with Me?

[28:88]

You shall not worship beside GOD any other god. There is no other god beside Him. Everything perishes except His presence. To Him belongs all sovereignty, and to Him you will be returned.

29:65] When they ride on a ship, they implore GOD, devoting their prayers to Him. But as soon as He saves them to the shore, they revert to idolatry

[30:13] Their idols will have no power to intercede on their behalf; on the contrary, they will disown their idols.

[30:35] Have we given them authorization that justifies their idolatry?

[30:52] You cannot make the dead, nor the deaf, hear the call, once they turn away.

31:32] When violent waves surround them, they implore GOD, sincerely devoting their prayers to Him alone. But as soon as He saves them to the shore, some of them revert. None discards our revelations except those who are betrayers, unappreciative.

32:4] GOD is the One who created the heavens and the earth, and everything between them in six days, then assumed all authority. You have none beside Him as Lord, nor do you have an intercessor. Would you not take heed?

[34:22] Say, "Implore the idols you have set up beside GOD. They do not possess as much as a single atom in the heavens, or the earth. They possess no partnership therein, nor does He permit them to be His assistants.

[35:15] O people, you are the ones who need GOD, while GOD is in no need for anyone, the Most Praiseworthy.

[35:40] Say, "Consider the idols you have set up beside GOD; show me what on earth have they created." Do they own any partnership in the heavens? Have we given them a book wherein there is no doubt? Indeed, what the transgressors promise one another is no more than an illusion

[39:3] Absolutely, the religion shall be devoted to GOD alone. Those who set up idols beside Him say, "We idolize them only to bring us closer to GOD; for they are in a better position!" GOD will judge them regarding their disputes. GOD does not guide such liars, disbelievers.

[39:8] When the human being is afflicted, he implores his Lord, sincerely devoted to Him. But as soon as He blesses him, he forgets his previous imploring, sets up idols to rank with GOD and to divert others from His path. Say, "Enjoy your disbelief temporarily; you have incurred the hellfire

[39:38] If you ask them, "Who created the heavens and the earth?" they will say, "GOD." Say, "Why then do you set up idols beside GOD? If GOD willed any adversity for me, can they relieve such an adversity? And if He willed a blessing for me, can they prevent such a blessing?" Say, "GOD is sufficient for me." In Him the trusters shall trust.

[39:43] Have they invented intercessors to mediate between them and GOD? Say, "What if they do not possess any power, nor understanding?"

39:49] If the human is touched by adversity, he implores us, but as soon as we bestow a blessing upon him, he says, "I attained this because of my cleverness!" Indeed, this is only a test, but most of them do not know.

[40:12] They will say, ‘Our Lord, Thou hast caused us to die twice, and Thou hast given us life twice, and now we confess our sins. Is then there a way out?

40:14] He it is Who shows you His Signs, and sends down provision for you from heaven; but none pays heed save he who turns to God

[40:20] GOD judges equitably, while the idols they implore beside Him cannot judge anything. GOD is the One who is the Hearer, the Seer.

40:60] Your Lord says, "Implore Me, and I will respond to you. Surely, those who are too arrogant to worship Me will enter Gehenna, forcibly."

[40:66] Say, "I have been enjoined from worshiping the idols you worship beside GOD, when the clear revelations came to me from my Lord. I was commanded to submit to the Lord of the universe."

[40:74] "beside GOD?" They will say, "They have abandoned us. In fact, when we worshiped them, we were worshiping nothing." Thus does GOD send the disbelievers astray.

[41:47] With Him is the knowledge about the Hour (end of the world). No fruits emerge from their sheaths, nor does any female conceive or give birth, without His knowledge. The day will come when He asks them: "Where are those idols that you set up beside Me?" They will say, "We proclaim to You that none of us bears witness to that."*

[41:48] The idols they had idolized will disown them, and they will realize that there will be no escape.

[43:86] None of those whom they idolize beside Him possess any power to intercede, unless their intercession coincides with the truth, and they fully know.

46:4] We have not created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, but with truth, and for an appointed term; but those who disbelieve turn away from that of which they have been warned.

46:5] Say, ‘Do you know what it is you call on beside Allah? Show me what they have created of the earth. Or have they a share in the creation of the heavens? Bring me a Book revealed before this or some vestige of knowledge in your support, if you indeed speak the truth.

[50:26] He set up beside GOD another god. Throw him into severe retribution

[72:18] The places of worship belong to GOD; do not call on anyone else beside GOD

[72:20] Say, "I worship only my Lord; I never set up any idols beside Him.

[72:22] Say, "No one can protect me from GOD, nor can I find any other refuge beside Him.

[74:48] The intercession of the intercessors will never help them.

Fallah, I have examined carefully and methodically; and "forensically" gone through all of 80 ayahs that you have posted, and the conclusion that I have come to is this, that you have a disillusioned premise or a assumption, for you to assert that using Prophet (pbuh) as Wa siliah constitute to shirk, well all of the ayah that you have deliberated not 1 of the 80 ayah you have produced imply this. In addition, you have ignored this completely

Surah Aal-e-Imran (verse 81)

When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there WILL come UNTO YOU a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall HELP him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you.

Now the Prophets HAD to help Rasulullah (s) as a binding condition of their Prophethood. How could they do that if they were dead?

Let me further my proof on this issue

1. "On that day shall no intercession avail except of him whom the Beneficent God allows and whose word He is pleased with" (20:109)

2. "And intercession will not avail aught with Him save of him whom He permits" (34:23)

3. "And how many an angel is there in the heavens whose intercession does not avail at all except after Allah has given permission to whom He pleases and chooses" (53:26)

4. "...And they do not intercede except for him whom He approve..." (21:28)

5. "And those whom they call upon besides Him have no authority for intercession, but he who bears witness of the truth and they know (him)" (43:86)

The above verses only touch on the mere fact of intercession in Islam. However a verse in Chapter Nisaa', becomes more specific about the act of tawassal. In Chapter Nisaa' Allah explains:

"We did not send a messenger but that he should be obeyed by Allah's permission; and had they, when they had done injustice to themselves, come to you and asked Allah's forgiveness; and the messenger (also) had asked pardon for them, surely, they would have found Allah oft-returning, merciful" (4:64)".

Here it has been made clear that the presence of the Prophet of Allah (SWT) has been a way for the people to use as a means of approach in asking forgiveness.

The above mentioned verses and many other ayats/verses in Quran encourage the practice of tawassul, but only if its to the right people and to the chosen people by Allah (SWT).

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Nobody said it is not permissible to ask someone to pray for you or to pray for someone.You cannot ask someone who is not in this world, because by definition it is not asking, you're invoking them. If you do, then you've given divinity to thoses saints.

Really, it's simple. In Islam there is no detour, Allah is always listening to our duas. If you need something, invoke Him, there's really nothing difficult to understand.

But ofc, people will still deny and reduce Allah to a wordly king who refuses to listen to his servants.

Where is the law that says we can't ask our Prophet (pbuh) to pray for us? Just because we weren't born in his time period doesn't mean he excludes us from his Duas. If Allah (swt) answers all the Duas of the Prophet (pbuh), then asking him to supplicate for you is wiser then you supplicating to Allah (swt), since Allah (swt) will judge you differently, and may not answer your dua. There is no rule that says we cannot ask someone who has died to supplicate for us. Just like there is no rule for a person to supplicate to a dead person.

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Nobody said it is not permissible to ask someone to pray for you or to pray for someone.You cannot ask someone who is not in this world, because by definition it is not asking, you're invoking them. If you do, then you've given divinity to thoses saints.

Really, it's simple. In Islam there is no detour, Allah is always listening to our duas. If you need something, invoke Him, there's really nothing difficult to understand.

But ofc, people will still deny and reduce Allah to a wordly king who refuses to listen to his servants.

Can we send Salam to one who is dead or one who is not in this world?

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Can we send Salam to one who is dead or one who is not in this world?

I hope you do this at least for the Prophet (pbuh) when you pray or when you visit his mosque in Medina.

The idea behind "Ya `Ali Madad" is that the intention is that Imam `Ali (as) is being used as a waseela. The one who believes that he will render the benefit has committed shirk, but the one who believes that their du`a will be enriched by his mention and Allah will render the benefit, then such a person has not committed shirk. Of course, I'm just giving a rationale for this. I don't really agree with this practice at all. The best intercession is that of the Qur`an or of Allah's attributes.

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I hope you do this at least for the Prophet (pbuh) when you pray or when you visit his mosque in Medina.

The idea behind "Ya `Ali Madad" is that the intention is that Imam `Ali (as) is being used as a waseela. The one who believes that he will render the benefit has committed shirk, but the one who believes that their du`a will be enriched by his mention and Allah will render the benefit, then such a person has not committed shirk. Of course, I'm just giving a rationale for this. I don't really agree with this practice at all. The best intercession is that of the Qur`an or of Allah's attributes.

Intention doesn't matter when the action is already haram.

Allah will not look at your intention if you commit zina, steal money or pray to an idol.

You cannot say it is halal for me to steal because I have the intention of giving that money to charity.

The whole basis behind this wasela thing is lack of faith, they reduced Allah to an inaccessible agent, who has some demi-gods responding to people's prayers.

Psychologically people are weak so they fall for anything physical that can replace Allah in terms of practice, and that is the basis of idolatry.

Do you find it weird that the same people who pray to the imams have their pictures and go to their graves?

Do you honestly see any difference between this practice and that of christians who go in front of a statue to pray to Allah?

Honestly, it doesn't even need a whole lot of thinking. did anyone pray to the imams when they were alive? Did anyone ever ask the Prophet something from afar while he was alive? Or did the people go to him to ask him something? Then why the sudden increase of power? WHERE DOES Allah EVER SAY PRAY TO SOMEONE ELSE THAN HIM?????????????????????????????????????????????????

Can we send Salam to one who is dead or one who is not in this world?

Allah says in a verse send salam to the prophet.

He never said pray to someone other than Allah.

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Intention doesn't matter when the action is already haram.

Allah will not look at your intention if you commit zina, steal money or pray to an idol.

You cannot say it is halal for me to steal because I have the intention of giving that money to charity.

The whole basis behind this wasela thing is lack of faith, they reduced Allah to an inaccessible agent, who has some demi-gods responding to people's prayers.

Psychologically people are weak so they fall for anything physical that can replace Allah in terms of practice, and that is the basis of idolatry.

Do you find it weird that the same people who pray to the imams have their pictures and go to their graves?

Do you honestly see any difference between this practice and that of christians who go in front of a statue to pray to Allah?

Honestly, it doesn't even need a whole lot of thinking. did anyone pray to the imams when they were alive? Did anyone ever ask the Prophet something from afar while he was alive? Or did the people go to him to ask him something? Then why the sudden increase of power? WHERE DOES Allah EVER SAY PRAY TO SOMEONE ELSE THAN HIM?????????????????????????????????????????????????

I don't respond to reductio ad absurdum, and nor do I respond to emotion. Formulate a better and more reasoned reply and maybe I will consider it.

Edited by al-Irshad
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Lol.

Tell me, is there shirk in actions or does it only exist in intention?

Once again, you shouldn't be finding any of this amusing if you are truly searching for the Truth. Otherwise, stop wasting other people's time and your own.

It would be very difficult to come to an absolute answer to that question. However, both are routes of shirk.

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Once again, you shouldn't be finding any of this amusing if you are truly searching for the Truth. Otherwise, stop wasting other people's time and your own.

It would be very difficult to come to an absolute answer to that question. However, both are routes of shirk.

there's absolute answer.

There are certain actions that are considered shirk/kufr.

Scrificing an animal in the name of other than Allah

Bowing down to a statue

wearing amulets and talismans

making haram halal and vice versa

invoking other than Allah

etc

Just like some actions are haram, some actions are kufr

intention is important once the action is halal

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(bismillah)

there's absolute answer.

There are certain actions that are considered shirk/kufr.

Scrificing an animal in the name of other than Allah

Bowing down to a statue

wearing amulets and talismans

making haram halal and vice versa

invoking other than Allah

etc

Just like some actions are haram, some actions are kufr

intention is important once the action is halal

Wearing amulets and talismans isn't Shirk unless you're believing it alone is the power that protects you. I could wear a necklace with the names of Allah (swt) on it.

Also, we are not making du'a to someone believing they are equal or greater than Allah (swt) or that they have independent power or ability. They are intercessors that Allah (swt) has allowed by His permission. If I can send Salaam direct to the Prophet (pbuh),and he hears it, why can I not ask him for intercession with Allah (

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there's absolute answer.

There are certain actions that are considered shirk/kufr.

Scrificing an animal in the name of other than Allah

Bowing down to a statue

wearing amulets and talismans

making haram halal and vice versa

invoking other than Allah

etc

Just like some actions are haram, some actions are kufr

intention is important once the action is halal

Get all of this out of your head. If you're arrogant enough to say that their is an absolute answer about something like this, then I have to say that you've missed the point of your study. The intention can save the action, in some cases, even if it is incorrect. For example, when a Musilm outwardly renounces his or her faith, but still believes in their heart that they're a Muslim shows this.

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