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In the Name of God بسم الله

"if There Were A Prophet After Me Verily....

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Abd az Zahra

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Asalam-o-Aliakum

brothers and sisters!!!!!

Lets here not criticize what the sunis say,but let me just give my own view point,as far as i have read.Firstly,there is no such hadith in my reach which says that IF THERE WAS A PROPHET AFTER ME,IT WOULD HAVE BEEN UMAR.It may be true,but not in my knowledge.(If any one could please give me the refrence?)

Ehl-e-sunat strongly beleives in such ahadith books as Al Bukhari,Sunan Nasai,Jama-e-Tirmizi,Ibn-e-Maja and Books by Imam Ahmed bin Hanbali(founder of hanbali school of law).So lets just give a few refrences from there.

Ibn Maja,Jamma-e-Tirmizi and An Nasai says:prophet said'Ali is a part of me and i of Ali'

Ibn Asakir records on the authority of caliph Hazrat Abu Bakar(ra) that Prophet(pbuh) said'Looking upon (Haazrat)Ali is worship'.

Al Tirmizi from Abu Sa'id says that Al Khudri says that he said'We used to distinguish hypocrates by their hatred of ALi(a.s)

There are manier more such ahadith that confirms but about the distinguished position of Hazrat Ali.

Hazrat Abu Bakar,Umar and Usman are important on thier own places,but if we thoughrougly study history,we will know that there are manier ahadith that confirms about the distinguished features of Hazrat Ali.

The two muhadith,Hazrat Bukhari and Muslim records on the authority of Saad bib Abi Waqas that the apostle of god left Ali behind as his vicegerent.On this Hazrat Ali said'O Prophet(PBUH) you left me behind amongst women and children.On this Prophet said:'You are to me as Haroon was to Mosa,EXCEPT that there will be NO prophet after me'.

With no grudge against any one,if i am WRONG in any place,you are most welcome to please Correct me

Wasalam

Your obediant

Fatima Zahra

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You ppl are disgusting, no matter what you believe he WAS a companion of the Prophet (S, you might as well leave it on that instead of making accusations for NO reason...keep these "ideas/thoughts" in your head

Was not Samari companion of prophet Musa(as)?

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You ppl are disgusting, no matter what you believe he WAS a companion of the Prophet (S, you might as well leave it on that instead of making accusations for NO reason...keep these "ideas/thoughts" in your head

Asalam-o-Aliakum

brother/sister!!!!!

No one is indeed CRITICIZING any one,its just that everyone has their own right to veiw point.Brother/sister,we do not deny what you said,but we just said that it is not in our knowledge.So if you could please give us somere frences from some authentic books,we surely would agree with you.This is no Fight over here,dear brothers and sisters,but just an express of everone's opinion.

Wasalam

your obediant

Fatima Zahra

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Guest Muhamad

The Prophet (pbuh) allegedly said: "If there were a Prophet after me verily it would be `Umar."

My understanding of this hadith is that Umar had a complete and perfect character. The fact that Nabuwwah ended with the Prophet (pbuh) is what prevented Umar from being a Prophet (pbuh)

I want to hear more of the Sunni explanation for this hadith from our Sunni brothers/sisters....

According to this hadith, Umar would be considered the most pious with the most excellent character among the people. This hadith is even more explicit than Hadith al Manzilah in which the Prophet (pbuh) said Ali (as) was to the Prophet as Haroon (as) was to Musa (as)

From what we know of Islamic history, what exactly did Umar do that got him this great status and praise from the Holy Prophet (pbuh)?

Was his character the closest to the Holy Prophet's (pbuh)?

Was his character close to any of the Prophets (pbuh) in the Quran or Hadith?

How do you rationally authenticate this hadith for yourselves?

Keep in mind, Umar was shown to be a very angry and impulsive person, even after he had become a muslim. Is this a behavior of Prophets of God?

you can be sure that no man is perfect or complete .. or shares any other attributes with Allah .. plus according to sunni bukhary hadeeth they point out mistakes he did (like disobeying the prophet pbuh.gif when he asked for a pen and paper on his deathbed .. anyway .. God will judge everyone in judgment day and depending on balance of good and bad deeds will get a verdict. additionally he abandoned the prophet in the battlefield once .. so that's just to prove that no human is infallible and perfect. just some are better than others.

I imagine that what he did that made him an important figure in Islam, is that he was by the prophet's side most of the time and played an important role in supporting the growth of islam at an early phase ..

God knows best, and i don't know laugh.gif

salam.gifsmile.gif

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A beautiful Hadith.This hadith uses the word if....The Prophet (pbuh) said that to show the muslims how much he loved Umar (ra) You people are going on as if sunnis believe Umar (ra) was close to being selected as a Prophet (pbuh), remember shia ghulu have beliefs likke those not sunnis

I agree at least about the word "if" - we can't ignore the hadith that says that IF I (s) could command anyone to make sujood to anyone else I would make wives do sujood to their husbands. Paraphrase. The purpose of these narrations are to show something by means of metaphor. But, of course, Umar can't be considered close to the level of a Prophet. No insult intended. But the hadiths regarding the high level of Fatima and Ali (a) contradict this hadith since they were in conflict after the Prophet's (s) passing away...

(salam)We are just trying to understand on what basis Prophet (pbuh) might have said that, if he even said that. Do you know why we have a hard time believing that hadith? The simple fact is that- Umar himself didn't think he was knowledgeable. He always deemed Imam Ali(as) as the most knowledgeable person.- Prophet himself (pbuh) said Ali is the gate of the city of knowledge. Have you read in the history of all the sinful acts committed by Umar before he converted to Islam? It is too far-fetched to even contemplate that the Prophet (pbuh) could have said something so outrageous, that defies logic and the Quran.

+1

Al-Sallam Alleikomi did a little look up regarding to how Omar Have Prophetic Qualities and Looking at the Sunni Views, i don't Blame Them for (Possibly) Omar was close of having Prophet qualitiesi mean Look at thisSahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 4, Number 148:Narrated 'Aisha:The wives of the Prophet used to go to Al-Manasi, a vast open place (near Baqia at Medina) to answer the call of nature at night. 'Umar used to say to the Prophet "Let your wives be veiled," but Allah's Apostle did not do so. One night Sauda bint Zam'a the wife of the Prophet went out at 'Isha' time and she was a tall lady. 'Umar addressed her and said, "I have recognized you, O Sauda." He said so, as he desired eagerly that the verses of Al-Hijab (the observing of veils by the Muslim women) may be revealed. So Allah revealed the verses of "Al-Hijab" (A complete body cover excluding the eyes). In Here Omar Knew Better .. ahemand thisSahih Muslim Book 026, Number 5397:'A'isha reported that the wives of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) used to go out in the cover of night when they went to open fields (in the outskirts of Medina) for easing themselves. 'Umar b Khattab used to say: Allah's Messenger, ask your ladies to observe veil, but Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) did not do that. So there went out Sauda, daughter of Zama, the wife of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), during one of the nights when it was dark. She was a tall statured lady. 'Umar called her saying: Sauda, we recognise you. (He did this with the hope that the verses pertaining to veil would be revealed.) 'A'isha said: Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, then revealed the verses pertaining to veil

I'm glad I was born in the 20th Century! Imagine keeping your hijab as you scramble into the wilderness to relieve yourself! You know how often pregnant women go, I can't imagine that! And of course the ghusls with cold water in winter... natural birth control!

Imam Ali (as) was the gate to the city but umar was the fence!they got that hadith too...aliyun babuha wa umaru jidaruha!

And Muawiya was the key! La hawla wa la quwwata illa billah!

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(salam)

And we are also all for discussion, but if you think that discussion shouldn't be on some fabricated hadiths then thats not possible

One has to see things with reasonable mind that such hadiths which shows that they are openly put into the mouth of Holy Prophet (saw) and then termed as authentic, that is very disturbing.

Why cant you have a simple reasoning that the Holy Prophet (saw) must have already known with the power of sight of nabuwwat that umar can never be a prophet or a khalifah as he will knowingly forget Ghadeer khum event and usurp the right of Hazrat Ali(as), will be the reason for the death of his (saw) daughter, etc etc. why do you think he (saw) is any other person with limited sight.

Just think on this by removing the seal of delusion from your mind,,,

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

This fabrication is absurd, but then again it is from a veritable treasure trove of such strange narrations. It goes against Holy Qura'an, Sunnah & simple logic for all the reasons mentioned above and much more.

It (mazhallah) degrades the Holy Prophet (S) by suggesting such a person is at least equivalent to His Holy Self (S) , if not actually superior :shaytan:

How can any sunni who claims to love the Mercy to Mankind (S) think an ex-kaafir, violent, drunken, tempermental person is even remotely comparable? Do they not see in trying to lift the lowly status of Umar they effectively degrade the Prophet (S)?

All this because they're deceiving mullahs insist on perpetuating the longest-running lie that all within the "Sahih Sittah" is accurate, correct, beyond reproach.

The shame of these people; Holy Qura'an confirms the purity of Ahlulbait (as) yet some go to extreme lengths to try and prove otherwise yet they see no irony in declaring the purity of these books written by partisan anti-shia latecomers with dubious motives & corrupt paymasters.

Allah Hafiz

ALI

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Imam Ali (as) was the gate to the city but umar was the fence!

they got that hadith too...aliyun babuha wa umaru jidaruha!

Yeah and gates are used to gain access to the city (knowledge) and fence used to keep people out of the city (knowledge) so if you want knowledge go to the gate else stay with the fence.

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let our Holy Imam, Imam Jawad (as) answer your claim.......

Yahya said, “It has been narrated that the Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: ‘If I hadn’t been raised as a Prophet, surely Umar would have been raised as one’ ”.

Imam (as) replied, “The book of Allah (swt) (Qur’an Majid) is more truthful than this hadith. The Almighty has said in His book: ‘And remember We took from the prophets their covenant: as (We did) from thee: from Noah…’(33:7) from this Verse it is clear that the Almighty took a covenant of the Prophets, so how could He (swt) change His covenant? None of the Prophets (PBUT) engaged in shirk even for a blink of an eye. How can Allah (swt) raise someone as a Prophet who spent most of his life associating partners with the Almighty? The beloved Prophet also said: ‘I was raised as a Prophet when Adam was between a soul and a body (before he was created).’ ”

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  • 3 years later...
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(bismillah)

(salam)

Thank you for this discussion. It has helped a lot.:) . Throughout my researches and studies in my first year as a convert Muslimah, I have NEVER come across this hadith that I remember of. Not too long ago, I became a Shi'a. Yesterday I was in a conversation with a Sunni Muslim and he told me of this hadith. From my common sense, it's just not possible that Umar could have been chosen had our Beloved  ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) not been. Nothing against the Sunni, I respect all Muslims. May Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) guide us all to the right path and truth. Ameen 

(wasalam)

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  • 6 years later...
Guest Abdul basit
On 10/25/2010 at 8:08 AM, Saved said:

A very illogical hadith! If it were true, Umar would be better than Abubakr. But even Sunnis do not accept this.

Bro how could you say that its illogical secondly it was said if and if you read his character you would see after becoming khalifa he was one of the best person his anger was only for those who were against islam

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30 minutes ago, Guest Abdul basit said:

Bro how could you say that its illogical secondly it was said if and if you read his character you would see after becoming khalifa he was one of the best person his anger was only for those who were against islam

Nothing better to reply to an 9 year old topic.. Umar was one of the best people? But your own sources go against such belief. Certainly the man who fled the battlefields, questioned the prophethood, called the Prophet ((صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)) “delirious”, and assaulted his daughter can’t be “the best of people”. If you call Prophet’s family enemies of Islam, then you are right, his anger was directed at them. 

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