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In the Name of God بسم الله

Debate With A Conservative Radio Talk Show Host

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and if everyone hates America so much what do you have to say to the topic starter who assures the host that he is as Texan as he is?

I don't think anyone here personally hates "America", we have problems with the colonialist crimes of the white Europeans that conquered what is today called the United States of America. Personally I don't believe in nationalism and I care about humanity, in addition there are plenty of non-Muslims in America and the West that agree with our plight and grievances against the Western colonialist leaders and system: specifically see "Leftists", many African liberation fighters, and Indigenous rights advocates. As far as someone saying they are as "Texan as he is"; I really don't care it doesn't change the facts that refute you and your racist white supremacist beliefs (your excuses and attempted justifications of the Atlantic slave trade and the white European genocide of Indigenous Native Americans) and you can go back to Europe where your evil genocidal ancestors invaded from before you try claiming your an alleged "true Amerikkkan".

Edited by Basra
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Salams to all,

I don't hate America either. I live in America, and was born here and stay by my own choice. We, as muslims, are taught to condemn Injustice and oppression wherever we see it, whether it is in our country, our family, or in our own selves. I have traveled to other countries, and there are plenty of things that I love about this country (the U.S). If I were to list them, they would be a long list. First, is the fact that we have good infrastructure here (roads, bridges, telecommunication, electricity). Second, we have an education system that allows those less fortunate to educate themselves, for free, and thus gives them a chance to get ahead. Third, we have a system to take care of the elderly people. It is not the best, but at least we don't have many cases of elderly people starving or dying of cold or heat in the winter. Fourth, we have a university and college system that is the envy of the world, although it is becoming more expensive and less accessible in the past few years. Fifth, sixth, etc.

I am proud that I was born here, and I think everyone should be proud of the country their from, as long as this doesn't make them think less of people who were born in other countries. I just think that American foreign policy has become an extremely destructive and negative force in the world after it was taken over by Zionists and Defense Contractors (the military industrial complex) after WWII and taken out of the hands of the people. I vehemently disagree with our former President Bush who said that 'they hate our freedom' and other such nonsense. I have been around alot of muslims and talked to them, even ones in other coutries. I have never heard anyone mention any such things like our 'freedom' as to why they don't like America. They only talk about how we have taken away their freedom, family, property, etc either directly(like in Iraq), thru coups, or thru proxies like the Zionist State. As long as Americans continue to choose to be ignorant as to the root cause of the problems we are now facing in our foreign policy, we will continue to suffer for it, and others will also, and we will continue to be the victims of evil people who use our money and the people and property in other countries for their selfish motives. That is what I am against.

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yeah it's everyone elses fault. muslims are perfect it's just the west does all this stuff to them.

Yes, it's sad, but the mindset of a lot of people boils down to this.

It sets Muslims and third world people in general as helpless victims with no power whatsoever to influence their own destiny.

On the other hand, this point of view paints Westerners as some sort of mythic, all-powerful force of nature that can magically roll over anyone. In practice, for a lot of these people, "the West" is for all intents and purposes their real god.

Challenging questions such as:

-How did the Europeans get strong and powerful in the first place?

-Why did their culture make such rapid advances in technology?

-Why did these colonialized nations get weak in the first place so that they became colonialized?

-What cultural issues contributed to this decline?

-How did the Muslim world go historically from tops to easily conquered flops?

go blissfully unasked.

Edited by kadhim
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I think you made some good points but as a christian american I sympathize with the basic point of the host, namely that yes we have liberty here but it's a western country and you have to leave 3rd worldliness behind when you come here. I was at Childrens hosptial a while ago and saw a muslim guy whose wife was walking ten feet beind him and...sorry, that's just not how we do it here. there's no law against it but we don't want it here. at all.

I mean no offense to you personally but as a christian American I am sure there are many many other things going on in this country that you could find more offensive, and out outrageous than a woman walking 10 feet behind her husband.

Rampant Homosexuality and now the legalization of Gay Marriage, Multi Billion dollar prostitution industry - beamed in to every home in the country (labeled as "pornography") Nearly 100,000 alcohol related deaths each year, 40% of all newly born children are illegitimate, more crime than most "3rd world" countries, and the list goes on and on...

But I am sure that muslims are the real problem in this society....

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Al Mufeed,

You have to admit that, looking around the world at all the crazy weird behaviors that various Muslim nutjobs get up to, that Americans have some justification for feeling apprehensive about increased Muslim presence and expression of cultural practices. Setting aside the American lunatic fringe, most Americans can accept the idea that the truly crazy violent nutjob actions in the Muslim world come from a minority. But at the same time, look, for example at the picture in your post. What other religious group's nutjobs do stuff like this, to members of their own religion, no less? American right wing protestants hate the Pope, but can you imagine them loading up explosives to take out the Sistine Chapel?

You have to admit our nutjobs are a special elite brand of nutjob. So from the perspective of an average American, OK, Muslim nutjobs are a minority, but the more the overall population grows, the more minority nutjobs come along for the ride. So this fear and reaction, while not entirely rational, is coming from somewhere. Americans don't want any of this sort of [Edited Out] here, and the pushback is a (somewhat misguided and misdirected) way of trying to cut that off at the root.

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Yes, it's sad, but the mindset of a lot of people boils down to this.

It sets Muslims and third world people in general as helpless victims with no power whatsoever to influence their own destiny.

On the other hand, this point of view paints Westerners as some sort of mythic, all-powerful force of nature that can magically roll over anyone. In practice, for a lot of these people, "the West" is for all intents and purposes their real god.

Challenging questions such as:

-How did the Europeans get strong and powerful in the first place?

-Why did their culture make such rapid advances in technology?

-Why did these colonialized nations get weak in the first place so that they became colonialized?

-What cultural issues contributed to this decline?

-How did the Muslim world go historically from tops to easily conquered flops?

go blissfully unasked.

They go unasked because the answers are quite obvious. This isnt really rocket science, Empires rise, expand their control, have their authority challenged through bloody and courages struggles, vast regions within the empires then gain independence and give birth to new empires. It is a never ending cycle, it is no different today. The only way to put an end to this cycle is to form global organizations of law, peace, justice and all those nice things. Post the world war, various such organizations with very noble ideas were put into place, the problem is that today they are completely dysfunctional. You can have the whole world on one side and a simple veto from an imperial powerhouse will chuck such consensus out the window. In any case, we must continue to support these organizations regardless of the harsh realities on ground.

Post the cold war, America has been the sole global imperial power in the world, it really has nothing to do with the 'west'. rest of the 'western' states have as much say in global affairs as does Cuba. The United States has ruled the world through an indirect but equally effective approach as the colonizers before, sometimes even more effective, they simply support governments(even brutal dictators) who are subservient to US imperial interests and organize and support violent coups in case certain governments decide to challenge them. Fortunately we have hope, South America which was completely under brutal American control has started to gain independence, nationalizing various local resources, so have certain nations in Eastern Asia. Eastern nations such as China and India were never under direct US control but obviously could not challenge US interests on a global scale. All that has changed now, and although the United Nations and the world court have yet to be allowed to function as truly global representative bodies, they are the only hope we have of forging a world in which no one super power gets to dictate policy in every corner of the world.

The middle east is a different story all together, that region of the world is the last stringing hope for Washington's global ambitions, you talk about the muslims taking it upon themselves to rid themselves of these shackles, well it isnt that easy, even if they have detailed answers to the questions you posed. During the Clinton years, there was a rise in resistance to Saddam in Iraq, massive organized movements to overthrow the brutal dictator, the United States intervened by imposing some of the most severe sanctions on 'Saddam" when they really targeted the civilian population. Dennis Halliday resigned famously in protest because he deemed the Clinton sanctions "genocidal", his assessment of the sanctions which he himself administered were that they were "sustained to kill civilians, particularly children and that over 1 million people were allowed to die directly as a result of these sanctions". Hallidays successor also resigned 2 years later citing that these sanctions violated the genocide convention. These sanctions effectively prevented the wise people of Iraq from taking control of their own country and ousting Saddam. The sanctions did nothing but strengthen Saddam strangling grip on the people of Iraq, not to mention all the weapons he was gifted to effectively exterminate his own people.

It isnt simply about these questions being answered, it isnt only about looking at oneself in the mirror, oppressed people all around the world are capable and more than willing to do that, its simply that the conditions imposed on them are at most times so harsh that they are left with nothing but a struggle for mere survival. The list goes on and on, Columbia, Nicaragua, everywhere when people have decided to take matters into their own hands and resolve their own issues, they are met with severe punishments for daring to challenge the order of global dominance. South America after countless years of violent resistance is finally embarked on that path, the middle east still remains a different story. A slave may posses all the wisdom and all the answers in the world, but there is little he can do divided and isolated until the shackles are loosened.

Edited by Bonafide Hustler
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This guy did a pathetic job.

A) He did not talk of nanothermite or anthrax or that FBI payed a fine of 3.X millions to Hatfill and anthrax was mailed by a white.

B) He did not bring out "2 planes hit and 3 buildings fell."

C) He was on the defensive and speechless all along.

D) Finally, he tried to shift the blame to saudis (saudi people not govt) ... which is a lie and a sign of defeat.

E) He could not even mention 4th crusade or the name of PROFESSOR STEVEN JONES.

This guy is an absolute embarassment ... and he practises

"The religion of fearing america"

which I have put in my profile as a pun at certain people here ... to remind them what I think of them and they know the equation of how much they fear God and America on this very forum.

Edited by yarbalu
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This guy did a pathetic job.

A) He did not talk of nanothermite or anthrax or that FBI payed a fine of 3.X millions to Hatfill and anthrax was mailed by a white.

B) He did not bring out "2 planes hit and 3 buildings fell."

C) He was on the defensive and speechless all along.

D) Finally, he tried to shift the blame to saudis (saudi people not govt) ... which is a lie and a sign of defeat.

E) He could not even mention 4th crusade or the name of PROFESSOR STEVEN JONES.

This guy is an absolute embarassment ... and he practises

"The religion of fearing america"

which I have put in my profile as a pun at certain people here ... to remind them what I think of them and they know the equation of how much they fear God and America on this very forum.

By the way I am the guy who did a pathetic job. Thanks by the way!

How about you schedule a call on a conservative radio show and you let me know when you are going to do it. So I can listen in and see if you can even make it past the 2nd bullet item you mentioned.

Its a shame that you don't have enough foresight to know that "these people will label you a 9/11 truther, conspiracy theorist" and hang up on you and totally descredit you and make you look like trash in the process.

Please let me know when you plan on explaining all of your points on a conservative radio show. So I can listen and laugh when he hangs up on you when you start to mention the World Trade Center Building #7 fell without a plane hitting it.

The only way the truth behind 9/11 is going to get out

1. Is by people doing their own independent unbiased research

2. Educating your friends and family with substantiated proofs and facts.

3. Owning their own radio station

4. Posting the different perspectives of the truth behind 9/11 through alternative media outlets (internet, youtube...etc)

5. Or someone who shares this view and is a public figure and has the media at their fingertips where they can express their views. (Kind of like Rosie O'donnell but guess what she got fired from the View...hmmm I wonder why?)

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By the way I am the guy who did a pathetic job. Thanks by the way!

How about you schedule a call on a conservative radio show and you let me know when you are going to do it. So I can listen in and see if you can even make it past the 2nd bullet item you mentioned.

Its a shame that you don't have enough foresight to know that "these people will label you a 9/11 truther, conspiracy theorist" and hang up on you and totally descredit you and make you look like trash in the process.

Please let me know when you plan on explaining all of your points on a conservative radio show. So I can listen and laugh when he hangs up on you when you start to mention the World Trade Center Building #7 fell without a plane hitting it.

The only way the truth behind 9/11 is going to get out

1. Is by people doing their own independent unbiased research

2. Educating your friends and family with substantiated proofs and facts.

3. Owning their own radio station

4. Posting the different perspectives of the truth behind 9/11 through alternative media outlets (internet, youtube...etc)

5. Or someone who shares this view and is a public figure and has the media at their fingertips where they can express their views. (Kind of like Rosie O'donnell but guess what she got fired from the View...hmmm I wonder why?)

I am very glad that you are here, so I am not even getting into ghaibya with a public personality.

What is needed is a witty person who has the wit to carry it out in the moments that are available. The name of the game is MERITOCRACY. A country or a department chooses a person not for his/her enthusiasm, knowledge, or sincerity in ISOLATION but by performance and carefully picking that rare person who has ALL the necessary ingredients and then that person is promoted, protected and brought in the arena.

One such person was Professor Edward Said. I have seen him perform and destroy the zionists on their own TURF, and even heard from the mouths of the Israelis "his english is very good." He died of cancer and my gut instinct says that he was deliberately poisoned just as the chief justice of the USA court was in cancer treatment while 911 and its processes were going on to disable those eloquenet or powerful people who could stand in the way.

If you are NOT competent, then you should not have done it. I never claim to boast that I am competent to do it as all the NECESSARY ingredients are NOT POSSESSED by myself. A meritocratic community of MOMINS would certainly find a person like this amongst themselves as a community of MOMINS would be HONEST in ALL ASPECTS including MERITOCRACY.

However, atleast, you could have mentioned that you are or aspire to be as texan as ALEX JONES who is the best host show in texas and perhaps on the planet.

What you needed was to poke needle into his ego to distract him there while you managed to say what you wanted to say as a joke.

Sense of humor is a rare gift of Allah(SWT) but it can bridge those journeys that are impossible.

Basically, also you should have two people , one should have acted as sacrificial and other followup but the real horse.

This is a team work job that requires some techniques.

To deal with such people you need some of their teqniques ... which you should study closely. Prepare for a fight - and learn your dodges - than the confrontations. even be prepared to act as a joker ... could you have quickly quipped that roman polansky was not a muslim and let him grapple with that ? Could you have a team of people in your room who would assist you with an argument by typing on the screen or writing it ?

Did you do any of this homework ?

You need to have incriminatory facts on the other people at your finger tips and bring one of just that nature as he is applying to us or will distract him.

You could have said that I am as patriotic as the 100+ people on the website patriots for 911 truth dot org who have these credentials and challenged him if he as white has ever flown as many flights or has phd like Dr Bob Bowman ?

put him on defensive.

Can you make jokes on demand and demolish your opponent ? I have seen some people have this ability.

You need to study the resume of

Roman Polansky

Bernard Madoff

Ivaylo Ivanov

Kerri Dunn - http://www.aztlan.net/claremont_fake_hate_crime.htm

Do you have a lawyer's experience ? How to deflect argument and other skills ?

I dont do these because I dont have these skills but I have seen people who do this well but pre-requisite is FEARLESSNESS because otherwise you will be weakened and paralysed by your own fears - foremost.

And that is the purpose of 911 to paralyse our peoples with fear while they carry imperialistic assaults and denigrade jihad as legitimate forms of self-defense and teach the simple argument of shia blaming "wahhabis" or saudi people ...

Also at some point its best to say the right thing which is short than something long ...

perhaps in the sweetest or the most sarcastic tone ... whichever moves the public in your direction ...

and your favor

Edited by yarbalu
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americas foreign policy IS extremely destructive but there is more to this debate than Americas foreign policy.

Almost every aspect of anything Regarding America has to do with their foreign policy.

Whether it be their success by sucking the Economies of other nations, or the colonization,

Everything traces back globally.

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Look at the KHAZARS how they sycophantly plead their case in public when they are weak and how callous they are when they are strong.

I noticed this from here

http://www.apfn.org/thewinds/library/khazars.html

first and then noticed their lawyers ... you will learn a lot by visiting courts and looking at their lawyers ... perhaps for learning make some dispute and call lawyers and tell them your case and then tell from the other side first and your side later to see how they promise you success from one side and take it away from the other side. I learnt these by watching some of them.

You can do it because many of them promise inordinate things and which is effectively a very dangerous lie to a client who has no clue of the system, so its kosher to whet them out like this.

You cannot consider yourself competent unless you can play the game of defense lawyer like a jewish lawyer - and equally competent in PLEADING your case with the sweet and oily tongue as they massage the ego of a judge.

dear mod i cant send you pm but if the other person got my message, kindly delete all my posts (only in this thread) except the first criticism. it will not help him or others if its in public.

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islamic marxist- no it's not. the people in my town aren't involved in colonialism. They don't kill each other because they come from rival religions, they don't spend their money on following women around making sure their veil doesn't slip off, and they don't spend all day dreaming up conspiracy theories or tearing their hair out worrying if every move they make is sanctified by an imam.

the success of America has nothing to do with out government it has to do with who we are at the individual, family and community levels. many, I would argue most of us, hate our government as much as people in the middle east hate our government. So please don't define us by them!!

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  • 1 year later...

You shouldn't be so nice to such people. It was as if you were sparring on the concept of "who's the biggest Yankee?" I am not saying that we should be angry or mean, but rather clever and witty, with a touch of honey. Sweet poison, as I like to call it.

Yes, I know it can be challenging when we aren't used to being in the mainstream, but we need to practice getting our voice out there if we are determined to make a difference. This way we can spar with the number one contenders, so to speak.

I once called in a local radio station, here in the D.C. area, and it went pretty smoothly. Alhamdulillah. Chris Core didn't attack Islam, as I wouldn't have allowed it. Brother Zaveri, I know you seem to have pretty good knowledge. It's time we set these brainwashed people straight.

Overall, good job in your attempt. Insha`Allah we'll all only get better.

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