The Disrespect Of The Sahaba Needs To Stop.

[Jay]

Out of respect for my Sunnis Brothers and Sisters, I try to not curse any of the Sahaba, or those loved by Ahlul Sunnah (no matter how much they deserve it). Hopefully, this respect will rub off on all Shi'is.

Anyway, I think both Sunnis and Shi'is CAN coexist if they do not, in any way, disgrace those whom are loved from 1 side. For instance, some Sunnis disgraces Shi'i belief by calling Abu Talib kafir, disgracing Imam al-Mehdi, etc. On the other hand, some Shi'is curse the first 3 Caliphs. This is what is separating Islam!

If you feel that a person like Umar or Muawiya does not deserve any kind of respect, then keep it in your head!! Refutes, debates, and fitnah have all started because of the disagreement between these Sahaba!

So I ask you, is it really difficult to NOT disgrace someone? Is it really difficult to keep emotions bottled? Don't use "they did it too" as an excuse. If they do it, correct them. If they don't listen, or you know they won't listen, just know in your heart that they said something wrong. You don't need to start a fight.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Jay

[zakzaki]

Out of respect for my Sunnis Brothers and Sisters, I try to not curse any of the Sahaba, or those loved by Ahlul Sunnah (no matter how much they deserve it). Hopefully, this respect will rub off on all Shi'is.

Anyway, I think both Sunnis and Shi'is CAN coexist if they do not, in any way, disgrace those whom are loved from 1 side. For instance, some Sunnis disgraces Shi'i belief by calling Abu Talib kafir, disgracing Imam al-Mehdi, etc. On the other hand, some Shi'is curse the first 3 Caliphs. This is what is separating Islam!

If you feel that a person like Umar or Muawiya does not deserve any kind of respect, then keep it in your head!! Refutes, debates, and fitnah have all started because of the disagreement between these Sahaba!

So I ask you, is it really difficult to NOT disgrace someone? Is it really difficult to keep emotions bottled? Don't use "they did it too" as an excuse. If they do it, correct them. If they don't listen, or you know they won't listen, just know in your heart that they said something wrong. You don't need to start a fight.

Islamic history is all about curses and murder

Aisha in the lead coming against Imam Ali (as) the rightly guided Caliph.

Mawiya killing so many sahaba including cursing Imam Ali (as) openly according to Sahih hadith.

You cannot even spare Sahaha for this.

[Jay]

Islamic history is all about curses and murder

Aisha in the lead coming against Imam Ali (as) the rightly guided Caliph.

Mawiya killing so many sahaba including cursing Imam Ali (as) openly according to Sahih hadith.

You cannot even spare Sahaha for this.

It doesn't matter how evil a person is. If one side thinks they are good, the only good you'll get from cursing them is an endless argument.

[yassameen]

but we do respect the sahaba that were loyal all through their life

like Ammar bin Yasser and his parents , Jaber bin Hayan , Slaman alfarsi ,Bilal alhabashi , ibn Abbass ,Mohammad bin Abi bakr , Abu Ther and many more ,so it is not totally write to put in the title we do not respect the sahaba

[guest 34193]

Out of respect for my Sunnis Brothers and Sisters

Your respect for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) should far outshine that. And they aren't your brothers.

[yassameen]

Your respect for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) should far outshine that. And they aren't your brothers.

on what bases you said they are not our brothers?

[guest 34193]

on what bases you said they are not our brothers?

They do not share with us the most important pillar of the religion, walayat. How can there be brotherhood with that? I have never seen a single hadith from the Ma`sumeen (as) where the `aam, the mukhalifeen, have been called our "brothers".

[Jay]

Your respect for the Ahl al-Bayt (as) should far outshine that. And they aren't your brothers.

So they are my enemies? As long as they say "la illaha ila Allah, muhammadun rasoolallah", they are my Muslim brothers. You may see it differently, but that's your opinion.

Ahlul Bayt (as) wouldn't teach us to curse someone, especially someone who is loved by other Muslims (1 Billion Muslims to say so the least). My respect for Ahlul Bayt (as) and Allah (swt) greatly outweighs the respect of anyone else. But disrespecting the belief of 1 billion Muslims will lead you no where.

I'm not saying that you need to respect them. Hell, hate them with all your heart. But don't disrespect them out loud, so that Sunnis would hear and get mad.

Edited October 4, 2010 by Jay

[SayYaAli]

One of the rules of good ikhlaq is to avoid hurting others feelings, even the non-Muslims' feelings should not be unnecessarily hurt.

But Shia Muslims shouldn't compromise the truth. We need to be more sophisticated and word our arguments in a better manner. Also, arguments all have their time and place, you can't randomly attack them. Rather our behaviour, language and morals should be such that impress them and make them want to be students of the school of Imam Jafar (a.s.) as well.

Like the Quran says:-

[Shakir 29:46] And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.

I see no need to curse the Sahaba they love in front of them. It's not a pillar of faith to insult the Sahaba IN FRONT of the Sunnis, it would be ethically better not to do that when unnecessary.

And who knows, maybe by means of your good ikhlaq, a Sunni might become such a Shia that he himself/she herself would want to curse them.

We should also keep in mind that the psychology of revenge insults is also in the Quran:-

[Shakir 6:108] And do not abuse those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest exceeding the limits they should abuse Allah out of ignorance. Thus have We made fair seeming to every people their deeds; then to their Lord shall be their return, so He will inform them of what they did.

If you insult the pagan gods, it could cause their worshippers to insult Allah. If you insult the Sahaba of the Sunnis, it could cause the Sunnis to insult Abu Talib (a.s.) etc.

Maybe it's not the best comparison, but....you know.

Edited October 4, 2010 by SayYaAli

[Incognito]

Some people are truly stupid

They expect to curse their sahabah infront of their faces then they wonder why such enmity exists

[JawzofDETH]

Out of respect for my Sunnis Brothers and Sisters, I try to not curse any of the Sahaba, or those loved by Ahlul Sunnah (no matter how much they deserve it). Hopefully, this respect will rub off on all Shi'is.

Anyway, I think both Sunnis and Shi'is CAN coexist if they do not, in any way, disgrace those whom are loved from 1 side. For instance, some Sunnis disgraces Shi'i belief by calling Abu Talib kafir, disgracing Imam al-Mehdi, etc. On the other hand, some Shi'is curse the first 3 Caliphs. This is what is separating Islam!

If you feel that a person like Umar or Muawiya does not deserve any kind of respect, then keep it in your head!! Refutes, debates, and fitnah have all started because of the disagreement between these Sahaba!

So I ask you, is it really difficult to NOT disgrace someone? Is it really difficult to keep emotions bottled? Don't use "they did it too" as an excuse. If they do it, correct them. If they don't listen, or you know they won't listen, just know in your heart that they said something wrong. You don't need to start a fight.

Though cursing is not the right word, we do not curse strictly speaking.

I am in 100% agreement with the sentiment that you have expressed.

I've said it many times before, it is only the ignorant who send la'n in

front of them.

Subhan'Allah.

Edited October 4, 2010 by JawzofDETH

[yassameen]

They do not share with us the most important pillar of the religion, walayat. How can there be brotherhood with that? I have never seen a single hadith from the Ma`sumeen (as) where the `aam, the mukhalifeen, have been called our "brothers".

most important pillar ? source please

imam ali said people are tow "brother in religion or peer in humanity " and as far as it concerned me they are muslims so yeah they are brothers

and if they were not muslims how come our Imam alsadiq is orrdering us not to isolate ourselves from them and pray with them in their mosques , marry them and all

[guest 34193]

most important pillar ? source please

Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ¡ Úä ÃÈíå æÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇáÕáÊ ÌãíÚÇ ¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÍÑíÒ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ(Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá : Èõäí ÇáÅÓáÇã Úáì ÎãÓÉ ÃÔíÇÁ : Úáì ÇáÕáÇÉ ¡ æÇáÒßÇÉ ¡ æÇáÍÌ ¡ æÇáÕæã ¡ æÇáæáÇíÉ .

ÞÇá ÒÑÇÑÉ : ÝÞáÊ : æÃí ÔíÁ ãä Ðáß ÃÝÖá ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÇáæáÇíÉ ÃÝÖá áÃäåÇ ãÝÊÇÍåä ¡ æÇáæÇáí åæ ÇáÏáíá Úáíåä ¡ ÞáÊ : Ëã ÇáÐí íáí Ðáß Ýí ÇáÝÖá ¿ ÝÞÇá : ÇáÕáÇÉ ¡ ÞáÊ : Ëã ÇáÐí íáíåÇ Ýí ÇáÝÖá ¿ ÞÇá : ÇáÒßÇÉ áÃäå ÞÑäåÇ ÈåÇ ¡ æÈÏà ÈÇáÕáÇÉ ÞÈáåÇ ¡ ÞáÊ : ÝÇáÐí íáíåÇ Ýí ÇáÝÖá ¿ ÞÇá : ÇáÍÌ ¡ ÞáÊ : ãÇÐÇ íÊÈÚå ¿ ÞÇá : ÇáÕæã ¡ ÇáÍÏíË .

æÑæÇå ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ÇáÈÑÞí Ýí (ÇáãÍÇÓä) Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇáÕáÊ ÈÇáÅÓäÇÏ ÇáãÐßæÑ.

2 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father, and from `Abdullah b. as-Salt, all of them from Hammad b. `Isa from Hariz b. `Abdillah from Zurara from Abu Ja`far (as). He said: Islam is built upon five things: upon salat, zakat, hajj, sawm, and walayat.

Zurara said: I said: And which thing from that is the best? So he said: Walayat is the best, for it is their key, and the wali, he is the indication upon them. I said: Then which follows that in virtue? So he said: Salat. I said: Then which follows that in virtue? He said: Zakat, for it is linked with it, and salat is begun before it. I said: So which follows it in virtues? He said: Hajj. I said: What follows it? He said: Sawm.

Ahmad b. Abu `Abdillah al-Barqi narrated it in al-Mahasin from `Abdullah b. as-Salt by the above-mentioned isnad.

And this entire chapter of hadiths in Wasail:

29 Ü ÈÇÈ ÈØáÇä ÇáÚÈÇÏÉ ÈÏæä æáÇíÉ ÇáÃÆãÉ ( Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã ) æÇÚÊÞÇÏ ÅãÇãÊåã

29 – Chapter on the nullification of worship without the walaya of the Imams Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã and the belief in their Imamate

[297] 1 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓíä¡ Úä ÕÝæÇä Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÇáÚáÇÁ Èä ÑÒíä¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ãÓáã ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) íÞæá: ßá ãä ÏÇä Çááå ÚÒ æÌá ÈÚÈÇÏÉ íÌåÏ ÝíåÇ äÝÓå æáÇ ÅãÇã áå ãä Çááå ÝÓÚíå ÛíÑ ãÞÈæá¡ æåæ ÖÇá ãÊÍíÑ¡ æÇááå ÔÇäÆ áÃÚãÇáå Ü Åáì Ãä ÞÇá Ü æÅä ãÇÊ Úáì åÐå ÇáÍÇá ãÇÊ ãíÊÉ ßÝÑ æäÝÇÞ¡ æÇÚáã íÇ ãÍãÏ¡ Ãä ÃÆãÉ ÇáÌæÑ æÃÊÈÇÚåã áãÚÒæáæä Úä Ïíä Çááå¡ ÞÏ ÖáæÇ æÃÖáæÇ¡ ÝÃÚãÇáåã ÇáÊí íÚãáæäåÇ ßÑãÇÏ ÇÔÊÏÊ Èå ÇáÑíÍ Ýí íæã ÚÇÕÝ¡ áÇ íÞÏÑæä ããÇ ßÓÈæÇ Úáì ÔíÁ¡ Ðáß åæ ÇáÖáÇá ÇáÈÚíÏ.

1 – Muhammad b. Ya`qub (in al-Kafi) from Muhammad b. Yahya from Muhammad b. al-Husayn from Safwan b. Yahya from al-`Ala b. Razin from Muhammad b. Muslim. He said: I heard Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying: Everyone who professes (belief in) Allah `azza wa jalla with worship in which he himself strives, but he has no Imam from Allah, then his effort is not accepted, and he is astray and confused, and Allah hates his acts – until he said: And if he died upon this state, he died a death of kufr and hypocrisy. And know, O Muhammad, that the imams of tyranny and their followers are expelled from the religion of Allah. They have gone astray and have led astray, so their acts which they performed are as ash that the wind disperses in a stormy day. They do not possess (?) anything of what they earned. That is the far straying.

[298] 2 Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå æÚä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇáÕáÊ ÌãíÚÇ¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÚíÓì¡ Úä ÍÑíÒ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: ÐÑæÉ ÇáÃãÑ¡ æÓäÇãå¡ æãÝÊÇÍå¡ æÈÇÈ ÇáÃÔíÇÁ¡ æÑÖì ÇáÑÍãä¡ ÇáØÇÚÉ ááÇãÇã ÈÚÏ ãÚÑÝÊå¡ ÃãÇ áæ Ãä ÑÌáÇ ÞÇã áíáå¡ æÕÇã äåÇÑå¡ æÊÕÏÞ ÈÌãíÚ ãÇáå¡ æÍÌ ÌãíÚ ÏåÑå¡ æáã íÚÑÝ æáÇíÉ æáí Çááå ÝíæÇáíå¡ æíßæä ÌãíÚ ÃÚãÇáå ÈÏáÇáÊå Åáíå¡ ãÇ ßÇä áå Úáì Çááå ÍÞ Ýí ËæÇÈå¡ æáÇ ßÇä ãä Ãåá ÇáÅíãÇä.

æÑæÇå ÇáÈÑÞí Ýí ( ÇáãÍÇÓä ) Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇáÕáÊ ÈÇáÅÓäÇÏ (1).

2 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from his father, and from `Abdullah b. as-Salt, all from Hammad b. `Isa from Hariz b. `Abdullah from Zurara from Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: The summit of the affair, its hump, its key, the gate of things, and the satisfaction of the Rahman, is the obedience to the Imam after his recognition. Were a man to rise up (in) his night, fast (in) his day, give charity by all of his property, do hajj all of his age, and he did not recognize the walaya of the Wali of Allah and give loyalty to him, and that all of his acts be by his guidance to him, he has no right upon Allah in regards to his reward, and he is not from the people of Iman.

And al-Barqi narrated it in al-Mahasin from `Abdullah b. as-Salt by the isnad.

[299] 3 Ü æÚä ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä Óåá Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÓáíãÇä¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: ãä áã íÃÊ Çááå ÚÒ æÌá íæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ ÈãÇ ÃäÊã Úáíå áã ÊÞÈá ãäå ÍÓäÉ¡ æáã íÊÌÇæÒ áå Úä ÓíÆÉ.

3 – And from a number of our companions from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhammad b. Sulayman from his father from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: One who does not come to Allah `azza wa jalla on the Day of the Resurrection with what you (pl.) are upon, not a good deed is accepted from him, and not a bad deed is overlooked for him.

[300] 4 Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì Èä ÚÈíÏ¡ Úä íæäÓ Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) áÚÈÇÏ Èä ßËíÑ: ÅÚáã Ãäå áÇ íÊÞÈá Çááå ãäß ÔíÆÇ ÍÊì ÊÞæá Þæáà ÚÏáÇ.

4 – And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa b. `Ubayd from Yunus in a hadith wherein he said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to `Ibad b. Kathir: Know that Allah does not accept anything from you until you say a just saying (i.e. profess a just doctrine).

[301] 5 Ü æÚä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ æÚä ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä Óåá Èä ÒíÇÏ ÌãíÚÇ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ãÍÈæÈ¡ Úä åÔÇã Èä ÓÇáã¡ Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáÍãíÏ Èä ÃÈí ÇáÚáÇÁ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: æÇááå áæ Ãä ÅÈáíÓ ÓÌÏ ááå ÈÚÏ ÇáãÚÕíÉ æÇáÊßÈÑ ÚãÑ ÇáÏäíÇ ãÇ äÝÚå Ðáß¡ æáÇ ÞÈáå Çááå ÚÒ æÌá¡ ãÇ áã íÓÌÏ áÂÏã ßãÇ ÃãÑå Çááå ÚÒ æÌá Ãä íÓÌÏ áå¡ æßÐáß åÐå ÇáÃãÉ ÇáÚÇÕíÉ¡ ÇáãÝÊæäÉ (1) ÈÚÏ äÈíåÇ ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå )¡ æÈÚÏ ÊÑßåã ÇáÅãÇã ÇáÐí äÕÈå äÈíåã ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) áåã¡ Ýáä íÞÈá Çááå áåã ÚãáÇ¡ æáä íÑÝÚ áåã ÍÓäÉ¡ ÍÊì íÃÊæÇ Çááå ãä ÍíË ÃãÑåã¡ æíÊæáæÇ ÇáÇãÇã ÇáÐí ÃãÑæÇ ÈæáÇíÊå¡ æíÏÎáæÇ ãä ÇáÈÇÈ ÇáÐí ÝÊÍå Çááå æÑÓæáå áåã.

5 – And from Muhammad b. Yahya from Ahmad b. Muhammad, and from number of our companions from Sahl b. Ziyad, all from al-Hasan b. Mahbub from Hisham b. Salim from `Abd al-Hamid b. Abi ‘l-A`la from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: By Allah, were Iblis to have prostrated to Allah after the sin and arrogance (for) the lifespan of the world that would not have benefited him, and Allah `azza wa jalla would not have accepted him, so long as he had not prostrated to Adam as Allah `azza wa jalla had commanded him to prostrate to him. And likewise is this rebellious Umma, in fitna (al-maftuna) after its Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå, and after their abandonment of the Imam whom their Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå had appointed for them. So Allah will never accept an act from them, and never raise up a good deed for them, until they come to Allah from whence He commanded them, and give loyalty to the Imam by whose walaya they were commanded, and enter from the gate that Allah and His Messenger opened for them.

[302] 6 Ü æÚäå¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ãÍÈæÈ¡ Úä ÚãÑæ Èä ÃÈí ÇáãÞÏÇã¡ Úä ÌÇÈÑ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýì ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: ãä áÇ íÚÑÝ Çááå¡ æãÇ íÚÑÝ ÇáÅãÇã ãäÇ Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ¡ ÝÅäãÇ íÚÑÝ æíÚÈÏ ÛíÑ Çááå¡ åßÐÇ æÇááå ÖáÇáÇ.

6 – And from him from Ahmad b. Muhammad from Ibn Mahbub from `Amr b. Abi ‘l-Miqdam from Jabir from Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: One who does not recognize Allah, and does not recognize the Imam from us, the Ahl al-Bayt, then he has only recognized and worshiped other than Allah. Such, by Allah, is a straying.

[303] 7 Ü æÚä ÍãíÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÓãÇÚÉ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä¡ Úä ãÚÇæíÉ Èä æåÈ¡ Úä ÅÓãÇÚíá Èä äÌíÍ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: ÇáäÇÓ ÓæÇÏ æÃäÊã ÇáÍÇÌ.

7 – And from Humayd (?) b. Ziyad from Ibn Sama`a from Ahmad b. al-Hasan from Mu`awiya b. Wahb from Isma`il b. Najih from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: The people are a bulk (? sawad) and you (pl.) are the one(s) who performed hajj (al-haajj).

[304] 8 Ü æÚä Úáí Èä ãÍãÏ¡ ( Úä Úáí Èä ÇáÚÈÇÓ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä ) (1)¡ Úä ãäÕæÑ Èä íæäÓ¡ Úä ÍÑíÒ¡ Úä ÝÖíá¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá: ÃãÇ æÇááå¡ ãÇ ááå ÚÒ ÐßÑå ÍÇÌ ÛíÑßã¡ æáÇ íÊÞÈá ÅáÇ ãäßã¡ ÇáÍÏíË.

8 – And from `Ali b. Muhammad [from `Ali b. al-`Abbas from al-Hasan b. `Abd ar-Rahman (from `Ali b. al-Hasan – in al-Kafi)] from Mansur b. Yunus from Hariz from Fudayl from Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: However by Allah, no one has done hajj for Allah `azza dhikrahu but you (pl.), and it is not accepted but from you, (al-hadith)

[305] 9 Ü æÚä ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä Óåá Èä ÒíÇÏ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÓäÇä¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÃÈí ØáÍÉ¡ Úä ãÚÇÐ Èä ßËíÑ Ãäå ÞÇá áÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü: Åä Ãåá ÇáãæÞÝ áßËíÑ¡ ÝÞÇá: ÛËÇÁ (1) íÃÊí Èå ÇáãæÌ ãä ßá ãßÇä¡ áÇ æÇááå¡ ãÇ ÇáÍÌ ÅáÇ áßã¡ áÇ æÇááå¡ ãÇ íÊÞÈá Çááå ÅáÇ ãäßã.

æÑæÇå ÇáØæÓí Ýí ( ÇáÃãÇáí ) Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇáãÝíÏ¡ Úä ÇÈä Þæáæíå¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä íÚÞæÈ¡ ãËáå (2).

9 – And from a number of our companions from Sahl b. Ziyad from Muhammad b. Sinan from Hammad b. Abi Talha from Mu`adh b. Kathir that he said to Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith: Verily the people of the stopping place (ahl al-mawqif) are many. So he said: Scum that the waves bring from every place. No, by Allah, hajj is not but for you. No, by Allah, Allah does not accept but from you.

[306] 10 Ü ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ÇáÈÑÞí Ýí ( ÇáãÍÇÓä ): Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÍãÒÉ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå¡ Úä Ìãíá Èä ÏÑÇÌ¡ Úä ÇÈä ãÓßÇä¡ Úä ÇáßáÈí¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü ÞÇá: ãÇ ÃßËÑ ÇáÓæÇÏ¿! íÚäí ÇáäÇÓ¡ ÞáÊ: ÃÌá¡ ÝÞÇá: ÃãÇ æÇááå¡ ãÇ íÍÌ ( ÃÍÏ ) (1) ááå ÛíÑßã.

10 – Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah al-Barqi in al-Mahasin from his father from Hamza b. `Abdullah from Jamil b. Darraj from Ibn Muskan (?) from al-Kalbi from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã in a hadith wherein he said: How numerous are the bulk!, meaning the people. I said: Indeed. So he said: However, by Allah, not [one - not in al-Mahasin] has done hajj for Allah other than you (pl.).

[307] 11 Ü æÚä ÃÈíå æãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì¡ Úä ÕÝæÇä¡ Úä ÅÓÍÇÞ Èä ÚãÇÑ¡ Úä ÚÈÇÏ Èä ÒíÇÏ ÞÇá: ÞÇá áí ÃÈæ ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) íÇ ÚÈÇÏ¡ ãÇ Úáì ãáÉ ÅÈÑÇåíã ÃÍÏ ÛíÑßã¡ æãÇ íÞÈá Çááå ÅáÇ ãäßã¡ æáÇ íÛÝÑ ÇáÐäæÈ ÅáÇ áßã.

11 – And from his father and Muhammad b. `Isa from Safwan from Ishaq b. `Ammar from `Ibad b. Ziyad. He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to me: O `Ibad, no one is upon the creed of Ibrahim other than you (pl.), and Allah does not accept but from you (pl.), and does not forgive sins except for you (pl.).

[308] 12 Ü ãÍãÏ Èä Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä¡ ÈÅÓäÇÏå¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ ÇáËãÇáí¡ ÞÇá: ÞÇá áäÇ Úáí Èä ÇáÍÓíä ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ): Ãí ÇáÈÞÇÚ ÃÝÖá¿ ÝÞáäÇ: Çááå æÑÓæáå æÇÈä ÑÓæáå ÃÚáã¡ ÝÞÇá áäÇ: ÃÝÖá ÇáÈÞÇÚ ãÇ Èíä ÇáÑßä æÇáãÞÇã¡ æáæ Ãä ÑÌáÇ ÚãÑ ãÇ ÚãÑ äæÍ Ýí Þæãå¡ ÃáÝ ÓäÉ ÅáÇ ÎãÓíä ÚÇãÇ¡ íÕæã ÇáäåÇÑ¡ æíÞæã Çááíá Ýí Ðáß ÇáãßÇä¡ Ëã áÞì Çááå ÈÛíÑ æáÇíÊäÇ áã íäÝÚå Ðáß ÔíÆÇ.

æÝí ( ÚÞÇÈ ÇáÃÚãÇá ): Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä¡ Úä ÇáÕÝÇÑ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ¡ Úä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ÃÈí äÌÑÇä¡ Úä ÚÇÕã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ¡ ãËáå (1).

æÑæÇå ÇáØæÓí Ýí ( ãÌÇáÓå ) Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇáãÝíÏ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚãÑ ÇáÌÚÇÈí¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÃÍãÏ¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä íÍíì¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÚÇÕã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ¡ ãËáå (2).

12 – Muhammad b. `Ali b. al-Husayn (as-Saduq) (in al-Faqih) by his isnad from Abu Hamza ath-Thumali. He said: `Ali b. al-Husayn Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said to me: What areas are best? So we said: Allah and His Messenger and the son of His Messenger know best. So he said to us: The best of areas is what is between the rukn and the maqam. And were a man to live what Nuh has lived amongst his people, one thousand years less fifty years, fasting the day, rising the night in that place, then met Allah with other than our walaya, that would have not have benefited him anything.

And in `Iqab al-A`mal from Muhammad b. al-Hasan from as-Saffar from Ahmad b. Muhammad from `Abd ar-Rahman b. Abi Najran from `Asim from Abu Hamza, its like.

And at-Tusi narrated its like in his Majalis from his father from al-Mufid from Muhammad b. `Umar the maker of quivers from `Abdullah b. Ahmad from `Abdullah b. Yahya from `Ali b. `Asim from Abu Hamza.

[yassameen]

right , but islam is based on five and is about worshipping Allah only , so how do you read those hadiths and the qura'an verses that say "Çä Çááå áÇ íÛÝÑ Çä íÔÑß Èå æíÛÝÑ ãÇ Ïæä Ðáß áãä íÔÇÁ æãä íÔÑß ÈÇááå ÝÞÏ ÇÝÊÑì ÇËãÇ ÚÙíãÇ

Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin ¿

íÇ ÇíåÇ ÇáÐíä ÇãäæÇ ÇÐÇ ÖÑÈÊã Ýí ÓÈíá Çááå ÝÊÈíäæÇ æáÇ ÊÞæáæÇ áãä ÇáÞì Çáíßã ÇáÓáÇã áÓÊ ãÄãäÇ ÊÈÊÛæä ÚÑÖ ÇáÍíÇÉ ÇáÏäíÇ ÝÚäÏ Çááå ãÛÇäã ßËíÑÉ ßÐáß ßäÊã ãä ÞÈá Ýãä Çááå Úáíßã ÝÊÈíäæÇ Çä Çááå ßÇä ÈãÇ ÊÚãáæä ÎÈíÑÇ

O ye who believe! When ye go forth (to fight) in the way of Allah, be careful to discriminate, and say not unto one who offereth you peace: "Thou art not a believer," seeking the chance profits of this life (so that ye may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils. Even thus (as he now is) were ye before; but Allah hath since then been gracious unto you. Therefore take care to discriminate. Allah is ever Informed of what ye do.

ÞÇáÊ ÇáÇÚÑÇÈ ÇãäÇ Þá áã ÊÄãäæÇ æáßä ÞæáæÇ ÇÓáãäÇ æáãÇ íÏÎá ÇáÇíãÇä Ýí ÞáæÈßã æÇä ÊØíÚæÇ Çááå æÑÓæáå áÇ íáÊßã ãä ÇÚãÇáßã ÔíÆÇ Çä Çááå ÛÝæÑ ÑÍíã

The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

[guest 34193]

Associating belief in the imamate of a false imam (such as the three Qurayshis) to that of the rightful Imam is itself shirk.

[ 34951 ] 48 Ü æÚä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ãÚáì Èä ãÍãÏ ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÌãåæÑ ¡ Úä íæäÓ ¡ Úä ÍãÇÏ Èä ÚËãÇä ¡ Úä ÇáÝÖíá Èä íÓÇÑ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : Åä Çááå ÚÒø æÌáø äÕÈ ÚáíÇ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÚáãÇ Èíäå æÈíä ÎáÞå ¡ Ýãä ÚÑÝå ßÇä ãÄãäÇ ¡ æãä ÃäßÑ ßÇä ßÇÝÑÇ ¡ æãä Ìåáå ßÇä ÖÇáÇ ¡ æãä äÕÈ ãÚå ÔíÆÇ ßÇä ãÔÑßÇ ¡ æãä ÌÇÁ ÈæáÇíÊå ÏÎá ÇáÌäÉ .

æÚä Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä íæäÓ ¡ Úä ÝÖíá ÇÈä íÓÇÑ ãËáå ¡ æÒÇÏ : æãä ÌÇÁ ÈÚÏÇæÊå ÏÎá ÇáäÇÑ .

48 – And from al-Husayn b. Muhammad from Mu`alla b. Muhammad from Muhammad b. Jumhur from Yunus from Hammad b. `Uthman from al-Fudayl b. Yassar from Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: Verily Allah `azza wa jalla set `Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã as a sign between Him and His creation. So whoever recognizes him is a believer and whoever denies him is a kafir. And whoever is ignorant of him is astray, and whoever sets something with him is a mushrik. And whoever comes with his walayat enters the Garden.

And from `Ali b. Ibrahim from Muhammad b. `Isa from Yunus from Fudayl b. Yassar likewise, and he added: And whoever comes with his enmity enters the Fire.

Also:

[ 34911 ] 8 Ü æÝí ( ÇáÎÕÇá ) Úä ÃÈíå ¡ Úä ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá ÇáÃÔÚÑí ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÓäÇä ¡ Úä ÃÈí ãÇáß ÇáÌåäí ¡ ÞÇá : ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) íÞæá : ËáÇËÉ áÇ íßáãåã Çááå íæã ÇáÞíÇãÉ æáÇ íäÙÑ Åáíåã æáÇ íÒßíåã ¡ æáåã ÚÐÇÈ Ãáíã : ãä ÇÏÚì ÅãÇãÇ áíÓÊ ÅãÇãÊå ãä Çááå ¡ æãä ÌÍÏ ÅãÇãÇ ÅãÇãÊå ãä ÚäÏ Çááå ¡ æãä ÒÚã Ãä áåãÇ Ýí ÇáÇÓáÇã äÕíÈÇ .

8 – And in al-Khisal from his father from Sa`d b. `Abdullah from `Ali b. Isma`il al-Ash`ari from Muhammad b. Sinan from Abu Malik al-Juhani. He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying: Three whom Allah will not speak to them on the day of the resurrection, and not look to them, and not purify them, and for them is a painful punishment: One who claims an imam whose Imamate is not from Allah, and one who denies an Imam whose Imamate is from Allah, and one who claims that (either of) them have a share in Islam.

[ 34914 ] 11 Ü æÝí ( ÚÞÇÈ ÇáÃÚãÇá ) Úä ÃÈíå ¡ Úä ÓÚÏ ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ Úä ÅÓãÇÚíá Èä ãåÑÇä ¡ Úä ÑÌá ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÇáãÛÑÇ ¡ Úä ÐÑíÍ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÍãÒÉ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞÇá : ãäÇ ÇáÅãÇã ÇáãÝÑæÖ ØÇÚÊå ¡ ãä ÌÍÏå ãÇÊ íåæÏíÇ Ãæ äÕÑÇäíÇ . . ÇáÍÏíË .

11 – And in `Iqab al-A`mal from his father from Sa`d from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from `Isma`il b. Mihran from a man from Abu ‘l-Maghra from Dharih from Abu Hamza from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: From us is the Imam whose obedience is decreed. Whoever denies him dies as a Jew or as a Christian – (al-hadith)

[ 34921 ] 18 Ü æÝí ßÊÇÈ ( ÅßãÇá ÇáÏíä ) Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä íÍíì ¡ Úä ÃÈíå Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì ¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä ãæÓì ÇáÎÔÇÈ ¡ Úä ÛíÑ æÇÍÏ ¡ Úä ãÑæÇä Èä ãÓáã ¡ ÞÇá : ÞÇá ÇáÕÇÏÞ ÌÚÝÑ ÇÈä ãÍãÏ ( ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÇáÅãÇã Úáã ÝíãÇ Èíä Çááå ÚÒø æÌáø æÈíä ÎáÞå ¡ Ýãä ÚÑÝå ßÇä ãÄãäÇ ¡ æãä ÃäßÑå ßÇä ßÇÝÑÇ .

18 – And in the book Ikmal ad-Deen from Ahmad b. Muhammad b. Yahya from his father from `Abdullah b. Muhammad b. `Isa from al-Hasan b. Musa the wood merchant from more than one person from Marwan b. Muslim. He said: as-Sadiq Ja`far b. Muhammad ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã said: The Imam is a sign between Allah `azza wa jalla and His creation. So whoever recognizes him is a believer, and whoever denies him is a kafir.

[ 34922 ] 19 Ü æÝí ( ÇáÚáá ) Úä ÃÈíå ¡ Úä ÓÚÏ ¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ¡ Úä ÇÈä ÝÖÇá ¡ Úä ËÚáÈÉ ¡ Úä ÚãÑæ Èä ÃÈí äÕÑ ¡ Úä ÓÏíÑ ¡ ÞÇá : ÞÇá ÃÈæÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) Ü Ýí ÍÏíË Ü : Åä ÇáÚáã ÇáÐí æÖÚå ÑÓæá Çááå ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ÚäÏ Úáí ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ¡ ãä ÚÑÝå ßÇä ãÄãäÇ æãä ÌÍÏå ßÇä ßÇÝÑÇ ¡ Ëã ßÇä ãä ÈÚÏå ÇáÍÓä ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÈÊáß ÇáãäÒáÉ . . ÇáÍÏíË .

19 – And in al-`Ilal from his father from Sa`d from Ahmad b. Abi `Abdillah from Ibn Faddal from Tha`laba from `Amr b. Abi Nasr [`Umar b. Abi Nasr – in al-`Ilal] from Sadir. He said: Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said – in a hadith: Verily the knowledge that that the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå placed with `Ali Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã (is) (?) whoever recognizes him is a believer and whoever denies him is a kafir. Then after him it was al-Hasan Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã that was of that station – (al-hadith)

[ 34923 ] 20 Ü æÝí ( ÇáÇÚÊÞÇÏÇÊ ) ÞÇá : ÞÇá ÇáÕÇÏÞ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ãä Ôß Ýí ßÝÑ ÃÚÏÇÆäÇ æÇáÙÇáãíä áäÇ Ýåæ ßÇÝÑ .

20 – And in al-I`tiqadat he said: as-Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: Whoever doubts in the kufr of our enemies and the oppressors of us, then he is a kafir.

[ 34924 ] 21 Ü ÝÑÇÊ Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã ÇáßæÝí Ýí ( ÊÝÓíÑå ) ¡ ÞÇá : ÍÏËäí ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ Ü ãÚäÚäÇ Ü Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ ÇáÕÇÏÞ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÞÇá : áãÇ äÒáÊ åÐå ÇáÂíÉ ( æÅä ãä Ãåá ÇáßÊÇÈ ÅáÇ áíÄãää Èå ) ÞÇá : ( ÞÇá ÑÓæá Çááå ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) : áÇ íÑÏ ÃÍÏ ) Úáì ÚíÓì Èä ãÑíã ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ãÇÌÇÁ Èå Ýíå ÅáÇ ßÇä ßÇÝÑÇ ¡ æáÇ íÑÏ Úáì Úáí Èä ÃÈí ØÇáÈ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÃÍÏ ãÇ ÞÇá Ýíå ÇáäÈí ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ÅáÇ ßÇÝÑ .

21 – Furat b. Ibrahim al-Kufi in his Tafsir said: al-Husayn b. Sa`id [from Aban b. Taghlab – in the Tafsir] – mu`an`anan (an expression Furat uses when shorten the isnad between the shaykh narrating to him up to the Imam) – from Abu `Abdillah Ja`far b. Muhammad as-Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: When this ayat “There is not one of the People of the Book but will assuredly believe in him” (4:159). He said: The Messsenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said: Not one rejects [Not one will remain who rejects – in the Tafsir] what `Isa b. Maryam Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã came with but that he be a kafir, and not one rejects what the Prophet Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå said regarding `Ali b. Abi Talib Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã but that he is a kafir.

And more.

[yassameen]

you know there are many types of shirks and many types of kufr no? even mohamad bin abdul wahab knew that

the types of shirk or kufr that dose not take you out of islam ?

[power]

1) Should we shia respect Abu bakr who took the right of Bibi Fatima (as) fadak

2) Should we also respect Umar who martyred the unborn child of Bibi Fatima (as)

3) Should we respect Uthman who had never been an outstanding figure when Mohammed(pbuh) was alive. Uthman's as khalifa was also a triumph of capitalism

I agree, we should not curse these three personalities as they are pivotal faith for Sunnis, on the same token we shia cannot say they deserve respect because some of the issue above

[djays]

Out of respect for my Sunnis Brothers and Sisters, I try to not curse any of the Sahaba, or those loved by Ahlul Sunnah (no matter how much they deserve it). Hopefully, this respect will rub off on all Shi'is.

Anyway, I think both Sunnis and Shi'is CAN coexist if they do not, in any way, disgrace those whom are loved from 1 side. For instance, some Sunnis disgraces Shi'i belief by calling Abu Talib kafir, disgracing Imam al-Mehdi, etc. On the other hand, some Shi'is curse the first 3 Caliphs. This is what is separating Islam!

If you feel that a person like Umar or Muawiya does not deserve any kind of respect, then keep it in your head!! Refutes, debates, and fitnah have all started because of the disagreement between these Sahaba!

So I ask you, is it really difficult to NOT disgrace someone? Is it really difficult to keep emotions bottled? Don't use "they did it too" as an excuse. If they do it, correct them. If they don't listen, or you know they won't listen, just know in your heart that they said something wrong. You don't need to start a fight.

Assalaam

I agree with you brother. I donot disgrace any sahabi. But I can't stop myself cursing mawiya (la).

Wassalaam

[Panzerwaffe]

They do not share with us the most important pillar of the religion, walayat. How can there be brotherhood with that? I have never seen a single hadith from the Ma`sumeen (as) where the `aam, the mukhalifeen, have been called our "brothers".

so are the 'aam considered muslims ? if they dont believe in wilayat

how about someone who accepts the first 3 caliphs leadership ?

[Qa'im]

(salam)

so are the 'aam considered muslims ? if they dont believe in wilayat

This question has received a mixed response, but al-Khoe`i's position to me is the most convincing. He says the `amm are Muslims of this life, and thus would be treated as such in shari`a, jurisprudence, etc. However, according to many strong ahadith, wilaya is a pillar that the `amm have abandoned, and thus they are accountable for leaving a part of the deen and are at the mercy of Allah in the Hereafter. For example: a Muslim who does not go on Hajj, even though he or she is perfectly healthy and wealthy, has abandoned a pillar, has he not? One who abandons wilaya, I think, is like one illegitimately abandons Hajj.

As for the "early `amm" (companions, their tabi`een, etc.), there is a sahih hadith of Muhammed al-Baqir (as) where he was asked why `Ali (as) did not fight for his Imamate if he was entitled to it. And the Imam (as) replied by saying like, the Muslims had accepted the wrong Caliph mistakenly, and if `Ali (as) had fought for it, those Muslims would willingly reject the Imam; resulting in their apostasy. That being a Muslim in error is a much better state than being an apostate via rejection of wilaya. I think the same can be applied in contemporary times - there are some Muslims who either don't know or don't have access to the school of Ahl al-Bayt (as), and there are others who willfully reject it. Both camps are at the mercy of Allah, but one is in a better position than the other.

[zakzaki]

Irregardless of whatever one may say, a crime is a crime and criminals are criminals and are denounced by Allah.

The sahih hadiths say it all

www.abubakr.org

[JimJam]

What is done can never be undone. An evil done in the past will remain an evil for ever.

[JawzofDETH]

do it in your heart and on your time. We do the same and dont bother each other. he is well known and i know so many ahle sunna who consider him and his son odious. why waste our precious time on such a character ????? !!!!!!!!!!!

Lets move to present and the future

What he said. ^^^

[wayfarer.]

(salam)

As for the "early `amm" (companions, their tabi`een, etc.), there is a sahih hadith of Muhammed al-Baqir (as) where he was asked why `Ali (as) did not fight for his Imamate if he was entitled to it. And the Imam (as) replied by saying like, the Muslims had accepted the wrong Caliph mistakenly, and if `Ali (as) had fought for it, those Muslims would willingly reject the Imam; resulting in their apostasy. That being a Muslim in error is a much better state than being an apostate via rejection of wilaya. I think the same can be applied in contemporary times - there are some Muslims who either don't know or don't have access to the school of Ahl al-Bayt (as), and there are others who willfully reject it. Both camps are at the mercy of Allah, but one is in a better position than the other.

wow, thats an interesting hadith. jazakallah for sharing.

[yassameen]

well , Islam dose not belong to me nor to you , it is Allah's religion , so it dose not matter what you feel about it , it should be done as it is ordered

asking not to take the ahlul bayet cause as a reason of disturbance and further disgreement with other muslims is not my own opinion , it is my Imams opinion and order

men came to imam sadiq telling him about a man of shia cursing the three in the mosque - seems no sunni shia mosques were there at that time - , imam sadiq said " what is with him , la'nat on him , making us"ahlul bayet " a target of counter cursing" <my translation

same concept is in quran about not cursing those who worship another god

i dont see a verse in qura'an that seek divisins rather unification of humanity , we are all from mud , we are on same distance from Allah at first , the only division ther is is based on deeds and deeds are based on intentions and intentions are within Allah's knowldege

even when quran asks us to make a stance , say what should be said ,quran expect us to do so wisely and with good intentions ie guidence

how do you seek to provide guidence to other humans and muslims by being so negative isolated soul filled with hatred and arrogance , thinking you are superior on them , while arrogance in itself is a barrier from entering heaven ?

who knows where his end would be , who knows where the others would end up ?

as a concept of muslims are in heaven and kafirs are not , it is a concept but do we know whos life would be ended as muslim and whos life would end while he is kafir ? no

since we do not know then everyone is a possible muslim and desrevs to be given a chance to discover islam instead of bashing people and pushing them away from Allah's religion , not ours "love for your brother what you love for yourself"

[Panzerwaffe]

(

As for the "early `amm" (companions, their tabi`een, etc.), there is a sahih hadith of Muhammed al-Baqir (as) where he was asked why `Ali (as) did not fight for his Imamate if he was entitled to it. And the Imam (as) replied by saying like, the Muslims had accepted the wrong Caliph mistakenly, and if `Ali (as) had fought for it, those Muslims would willingly reject the Imam; resulting in their apostasy. That being a Muslim in error is a much better state than being an apostate via rejection of wilaya. I think the same can be applied in contemporary times - there are some Muslims who either don't know or don't have access to the school of Ahl al-Bayt (as), and there are others who willfully reject it. Both camps are at the mercy of Allah, but one is in a better position than the other.

salam

but if he wasnt willing to fight for it at the time of abubakr, why did he agree to become caliph and fight wars after uthman ? if rejecting ali's caliphate led to apostasy then why was ali's conduct after jamal, siffin and naharwan different than when muslims fought non-muslims.

[Ali_Hussain]

(salam)

For a start, the people forced Imam Ali (as) to take over the leadership of the ummah

Edited October 5, 2010 by ShahHussain

[Panzerwaffe]

^ people forced him to accept abubakr, then they forced him to accept uthman then they forced him to become caliph ?

he was PERSUADED to become caliph but not FORCED

[Ali_Hussain]

^ people forced him to accept abubakr, then they forced him to accept uthman then they forced him to become caliph ?

he was PERSUADED to become caliph but not FORCED

sorry, bad use of words, persuaded is more accurate

[PeaceLoving]

So I ask you, is it really difficult to NOT disgrace someone? Is it really difficult to keep emotions bottled? Don't use "they did it too" as an excuse. If they do it, correct them. If they don't listen, or you know they won't listen, just know in your heart that they said something wrong. You don't need to start a fight.

I completely agree with you, Jay. If I had my way, no Shia-Sunni discussion forums would ever exist.

Muslims should try and draw closer to one another and even to non-Muslims. There are good people among Sunnis as much as among Shias as much as among Christians, Hindus or Buddhists. Likewise there are bad people among people of all faiths.

A true Muslim is one who seeks peace, not war.

[JawzofDETH]

Okay, you all forced me to say this:

I myself was sunni, so stop showing your ignorance by looking at all sunnis as hellbound

and start looking at OUR BROTHERS & SISTERS as potential shi'as.

Some of you living in your little cocoons and

pseudo-rafidite conclaves know nothing about "them."

Take it from someone who was one.

Was-Salaam

salam

but if he wasnt willing to fight for it at the time of abubakr, why did he agree to become caliph and fight wars after uthman ? if rejecting ali's caliphate led to apostasy then why was ali's conduct after jamal, siffin and naharwan different than when muslims fought non-muslims.

Brother, I think the reason is in Sermon 3.

"Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser."

As Imaam Ali (as) famously remarked about his predicament (something to the effect of) that if he assaulted them- people will say that he is greedy towards power, but if he remains silent they will state that he is weak/ doesn't have a strong claim/ is silent on the issue.

Thus if it had gone the other way, people would have said HE, Imaam Ali (as) WAS GREEDY towards power AND STOLE the KHILAFAT.

(Wordly in other words) Who knows if it would have forced a great multitude against AhlulBayt (as) and/ or created more fervent support

for his opponents.

Lastly, his (as) reason for accepting it was because THE BULK of the muslims

after Uthmaan CAME TO HIM (as). So his rightful place had legitamacy in

the eyes of the people now and taking the position would not turn people against

his household (as) due to cause of suspicion (based on fear of greed etc.)

And another reason is that it was a period of fitnah and people were in confusion.

He innitially refused (sort of) in order TO PROVE that the household of the

Prophet (pbuh) are not pursuers of worldliness.

Was-Salaam

Edited October 5, 2010 by JawzofDETH

[lotfilms]

(bismillah)

(salam)

Declaration and the Verdict of AYATOLLAH ALUDHMA SAYYID ALI ALSISTANI

(may Allah swt protect him) strictly condemns and prohibits the use of

abusive language to the icons of the school of companion which causes disunity

and conflicts, and invites the academic discussion away from hatred and

bigotry:

http://www.sistani.org/local.php?modules=extra&eid=2&sid=84

wallah i hate when the lying ghulat spread lies about the Shia 'ulema, especially Ayatullah al-Sistani.

Fear Allah(swt).

was salam

[Mo.]

In my opinion, nobody should curse prophet Mohammad's wives because that's what the prophet and God ordered us to refrain from. They're his wives, not our's. And I know that the issue of Aisha has been a heated debate over and over again but even the prophet warned her of hearing barking dogs on her trip to Basra and then she will become aware of her mistakes, etc. And that did happen according to historical documents and if I'm not mistaken she returned back to her home after seeing this sign. So end of the debate.

As for Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, nobody should be cursing them either. The first four Caliphs were very close to the prophet and they formed the Rashidun Caliphate. They shouldn't be cursed. Also, Umar II of Ummayad Dynasty, according to Sunni Muslims, is concerned the fifth rightly guided Caliph for abolishing the slandering of Ali in Friday sermons.

As for Mawiya, I don't know if he's considered Sahaba by all Muslims. Some people said to me he isn't considered part of the Sahaba. In any case, he fought Ali and that was also wrong.

As for Yazid, bloody hell he deserves to be cursed.

[Nokare-Zahra]

(salam)

As for Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, nobody should be cursing them either.

As for Yazid, bloody hell he deserves to be cursed.

I worry about the Shias when we have replies like that.

Whats the difference ??? Abu Bakr + Omar opressed the Ahlulbayt so much, after the demise of the Prophet. This lead to the killing of his daughter (Fatima Zahra).

Yazid was obviously a tyrant too..

Eltemase Doa.

[Socrates]

In my opinion, nobody should curse prophet Mohammad's wives because that's what the prophet and God ordered us to refrain from. They're his wives, not our's. And I know that the issue of Aisha has been a heated debate over and over again but even the prophet warned her of hearing barking dogs on her trip to Basra and then she will become aware of her mistakes, etc. And that did happen according to historical documents and if I'm not mistaken she returned back to her home after seeing this sign. So end of the debate.

Unfortunately this is not the case. Had she turned back from the Hawwab, where the dogs barked at her, she may well have had a chance at forgiveness. But she carried on regardless, and even if she did ask for forgiveness after the battle of Basra, she personally supervised the shooting of arrows at the funeral of Imam Hasan (as).

As for Abu Baker, Omar and Othman, nobody should be cursing them either. The first four Caliphs were very close to the prophet and they formed the Rashidun Caliphate.

Doesn't matter how close you are to the Prophet (pbuh). The killer of one infallible is the same as the killer of another infallible. If the killer of Husayn (as) is derided, then the killer of the mother of Husayn (as) deserves the same scorn.