Jump to content
Purged

Story Of Isra Al ' Miraj.

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

only Prophet (pbu) could reach a point that no one traveled to it & won't travel to it that his closeness to Allah is impossible for everyone even Sayeda (sa) but it wasn't a physical closeness like as wahhabis say that he saw Allah in form of unmatured red curly teenager Nauzubi'Allah when creation of Sayeda done from Prophet (pbu) do she can't exceed him but she has third  place after Prophet Muhammad (pbu) & Imam Ali(عليه السلام) even above other Imams that all of them have more higher status than we can imagine but only Prophet Muhammad (pbu) is closest one to Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم)

No my brother sayeda(SA) is closest to God, and really only they know as we haven’t traversed the heavens like they have 

she is the middle of the three, with Imam Ali(SA) first, Sayeda(SA) second and Rasoolullah (SAAWS) third. Akin to the way they arrived for mubahila 

Imam Ali(عليه السلام) was the only one suited for someone like Sayeda(SA)

remember even the Propeht call Sayeda(SA) -the mother of her father

we really have no idea just what her status is with respect to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

I think its better if we just say we really don’t know 

mans maybe there is language barrier and I didn’t choose the right words to get my point across.

I don’t know about spiritual or physical, only they really know.

You know I’m thinking of asking our Imam, Iam sure he can give a clear answer! 

Edited by Ralvi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel , the details are unwarranted and superfluous. Its like asking how does God exist and how is her seated on his thorn and how does he interact with the physical realm? Though the only relevant thing is that He exists.

Secondly , the dichotomy of matter and spirit parts of human body is illusory when it comes to perception and cognitive faculties so it does not matter whether it was a physical journey or a spiritual one. The fact is that the Prophet ascended to heavens as described by the Qur'an and the details are unwarranted.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

No my brother sayeda(SA) is closest to God, and really only they know as we haven’t traversed the heavens like they have 

she is the middle of the three, with Imam Ali(SA) first, Sayeda(SA) second and Rasoolullah (SAAWS) third. Akin to the way they arrived for mubahila

she  definitely closer than any woman from first to last to Allah but her status is lower than  Rasoolullah (SAAWS)  that position of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) lower than  Rasoolullah (SAAWS) that he is Imam of Sayeda (sa) so her status lower than her Imam of time but she connects  Rasoolullah (SAAWS) & Imam Ali (عليه السلام) toghether.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam,

What is the masjid alaqsa that is being referred to in the verse? 

Also I can't speak for the hadiths in Sunni and Shia literature (many of which come off as fabricated myths , flying horse, women in hell etc etc) but taking the verse on it's own this couldvd been as simple as a dream.

And Allahu aalam 

*** Also @Salsabeel

Let's assume God (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) took the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) in body to heaven per the hadiths - I don't see an issue with this as a Quranist.

The problem is some of the hadiths surrounding this event sound fabricated.

But id like you to clarify where masjid alaqsa is.

Salam

Edited by Fink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

she  definitely closer than any woman from first to last to Allah but her status is lower than  Rasoolullah (SAAWS)  that position of Imam Ali (عليه السلام) lower than  Rasoolullah (SAAWS) that he is Imam of Sayeda (sa) so her status lower than her Imam of time but she connects  Rasoolullah (SAAWS) & Imam Ali (عليه السلام) toghether.

Where is your basis to say this?

remember Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and The Propeht (SAAWS) are two halves of the same soul

does sayeda(SA) have another Half? or is she the only one?

iam saying we truly don’t know, what actually her status is with respect to how Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sees her, reasons for creation, proximity etc 

when I praise sayeda, that in no way is in conflict with the status of Rasoolullah (SAAWS) and Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

 

Edited by Ralvi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Human mind is unable to comprehend haqeeqat of "Isra" or "Miraj" that's why most of the Muslims scholars have tried to limit this great miracle by stating that it was a spiritual journey and was not a bodily ascension. Some have said it happened during his sleep and again denied bodily ascension. I can see how hard it is for people to understand and accept the reality of Miraj while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself mentioning it by beginning the verse with "Subhan Allathi" (Limitless in His glory is He) 

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا
17:1

Perhaps they think it is not possible for "basharun mithlokum" (Human like them) to ascend to heavens without wearing space suit :D

I would like to know what are the views of reformists and those who reject the hadith on this great event. 

@Fink, @786:), @skyweb1987, @Ashvazdanghe, @ShiaMan14, @Leibniz
 

Wow brother..reformist? Me?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

Human mind is unable to comprehend haqeeqat of "Isra" or "Miraj" that's why most of the Muslims scholars have tried to limit this great miracle by stating that it was a spiritual journey and was not a bodily ascension. Some have said it happened during his sleep and again denied bodily ascension. I can see how hard it is for people to understand and accept the reality of Miraj while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself mentioning it by beginning the verse with "Subhan Allathi" (Limitless in His glory is He) 

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا
17:1

Perhaps they think it is not possible for "basharun mithlokum" (Human like them) to ascend to heavens without wearing space suit :D

I would like to know what are the views of reformists and those who reject the hadith on this great event. 

@Fink, @786:), @skyweb1987, @Ashvazdanghe, @ShiaMan14, @Leibniz
 

bashar mislukunm  means that the Prophet Muhamamd saww is like us in appearance only. 

But he has characteristics  that has led him to reach the heights of sidra tul munteha.

Edited by skyweb1987

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Ralvi said:

Where is your basis to say this?

remember Imam Ali (عليه السلام) and The Propeht (SAAWS) are two halves of the same soul

does sayeda(SA) have another Half? or is she the only one?

iam saying we truly don’t know, what actually her status is with respect to how Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) sees her, reasons for creation, proximity etc 

when I praise sayeda, that in no way is in conflict with the status of Rasoolullah (SAAWS) and Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

 

Salam it said in another hadith that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) said that " I & Ali are from different tree than rest of people that I'm the root & Ali is it's body & Fatima is it's branch & Imams are fruits & Shias are leafs of this tree " so how branch can has more importance than root & body the Sayeda (sa) has her highest place but her place doesn't exceeds Prophet (pbu) place if you insist on your idea about her so you must accept that first creation of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was her not Prophet (pbu) that is guluw & I never ever accepts it & I think rest of people here don't accept it too.

Edited by Ashvazdanghe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, skyweb1987 said:

bashar mislukunm  means that the Prophet Muhamamd saww is like us in appearance only. 

But he has characteristics  that has led him to reach the heights of sidra tul munteha.

Rather than that, we (as humans) can only perceive him that way

he may actually be exuding something more :) that we can’t even perceive 

liek the fact we can’t even see jinns

something to that effect? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

Salam it said in another hadith that Prophet Muhammad (pbu) said that " I & Ali are from different tree than rest of people that I'm the root & Ali is it's body & Fatima is it's branch & Imams are fruits & Shias are leafs of this tree " so how branch can has more importance than root & body the Sayeda (sa) has her highest place but her place doesn't exceeds Prophet (pbu) place if you insist on your idea about her so you must accept that first creation of Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) was her not Prophet (pbu) that is guluw & I never ever accepts it & I think rest of people here don't accept it too.

By that logic the rest of the Imams are also lesser

I don’t think in this case the tree analogy can be used to substantiate their rankings

In fact it tells us that they are the basis of guidance for the believers and us as humans too.  

*****I never said anything about her being the first creation******

I would rather you see what Iam saying than coming to conclusions too fast. 

I said she has a very close proximity to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى). She is the only of her kind, she connects Rasoolat to Imamat, she is described as the mother of her own father. That narration itself should tell you that her status is not what you perceive, and this shouldn’t be overlooked and made unimportant. There is a reason for the seal of Allah to call Sayeda(SA) like his own mother 

I would rather ask our Imam and get his answer. 

Btw where did you find that Hadith?

Edited by Ralvi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't say anything about Syeda Fatima (s.a). There are verses in Qur'an for which we have different interpretations, and those interpretations causes me to just keep quite. 
For instance, Laylatul Qadr has been mentioned as Syeda Fatima (s.a), then there is a verse which says "Laylatul Qadre Khayrun Min Alfe Shahr", interestingly there is another interpretation of a verse where Imams have been mentioned as "Shahr" (months) إِنَّ عِدَّةَ الشُّهُورِ عِندَ اللّهِ اثْنَا عَشَرَ شَهْرًا فِي كِتَابِ اللّهِ

So I feel appropriate to not compare their status at all. There exists maratib but they all are the bearers of the minniyat of Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) who is Awwal Noor and all the Ahlul Bayt (asws) are from that noor-e-wahid. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Ralvi said:

Btw where did you find that Hadith?

مَثَلِی وَ مَثَلُ عَلِیٍّ مَثَلُ شَجَرَه أنا أصْلُها وَ عَلِیٌّ فَرْعُها وَ الْحَسَنُ وَ الْحُسَیْنُ ثَمَرُها وَ الشِّیعه وَرَقُها فَهَلْ یَخْرُجُ مِنْ الطَّیِّبِ إلّا الطَّیِّبُ وَ أنا مَدِینَه الْعِلْمِ وَ عَلِیٌّ بابُها فَمَنْ أرادَها فَلْیَأتِها مِنْ بابِها

ابن عساکر، تاریخ دمشق، ج42، ص384، بیروت ، دارالفکر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع، 1415ق

Sample of me & Ali is sample of a tree that I'm it's root & Ali is it's branch &  Hasan & Hussain areit's fruits & Shias are leafs of it ,is pure comes out other than pure & I'm city of knowledge and Ali is it's gate everyone that wants to enter it must enters from it's door 

ibn Asaker, Tarikh Dameshq (history of Damascus) v 42 p 384 1415 lunar

http://Farsi.al-Shia.org/شیعه-برگهای-درخت-نبوت/

also it comes that only Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima were in same rank for marriage with each other that no one on Earth had & have & won't have this position but Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was Imam of time of Lady Fatima (sa) that every time knew himself lower than Prophet (pbu) in rank toward Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) also Lady Fatima (sa) was a product of Isra & Miraj 

Prophet (pbu) said in Miraj gave me fruits from Paradise that lady Fatima is result of that fruits (or a particular fruit from paradise)& when I feel depressed about being away from paradise I smell her scent 

https://afghanistan.shafaqna.com/interviews-and-texts/item/52860-مقام-و-منزلت-حضرت-فاطمه-س-از-نگاه-اهل-سنت.html

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

مَثَلِی وَ مَثَلُ عَلِیٍّ مَثَلُ شَجَرَه أنا أصْلُها وَ عَلِیٌّ فَرْعُها وَ الْحَسَنُ وَ الْحُسَیْنُ ثَمَرُها وَ الشِّیعه وَرَقُها فَهَلْ یَخْرُجُ مِنْ الطَّیِّبِ إلّا الطَّیِّبُ وَ أنا مَدِینَه الْعِلْمِ وَ عَلِیٌّ بابُها فَمَنْ أرادَها فَلْیَأتِها مِنْ بابِها

ابن عساکر، تاریخ دمشق، ج42، ص384، بیروت ، دارالفکر للطباعة والنشر والتوزيع، 1415ق

Sample of me & Ali is sample of a tree that I'm it's root & Ali is it's branch &  Hasan & Hussain areit's fruits & Shias are leafs of it ,is pure comes out other than pure & I'm city of knowledge and Ali is it's gate everyone that wants to enter it must enters from it's door 

ibn Asaker, Tarikh Dameshq (history of Damascus) v 42 p 384 1415 lunar

http://Farsi.al-Shia.org/شیعه-برگهای-درخت-نبوت/

also it comes that only Imam Ali (عليه السلام) & lady Fatima were in same rank for marriage with each other that no one on Earth had & have & won't have this position but Imam Ali (عليه السلام) was Imam of time of Lady Fatima (sa) that every time knew himself lower than Prophet (pbu) in rank toward Allah (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) also Lady Fatima (sa) was a product of Isra & Miraj 

Prophet (pbu) said in Miraj gave me fruits from Paradise that lady Fatima is result of that fruits (or a particular fruit from paradise)& when I feel depressed about being away from paradise I smell her scent 

https://afghanistan.shafaqna.com/interviews-and-texts/item/52860-مقام-و-منزلت-حضرت-فاطمه-س-از-نگاه-اهل-سنت.html

Thanks for the link, we have a language barrier so let’s take it with a grain of salt

Miraj sort of strengthens my point actually. If she was a product, why couldn’t Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) just send her? Prophet Ibrahim(عليه السلام) prayed for Rasool (SAAWS) and Imam Ali(عليه السلام) and Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) granted it, but he didn’t have to ascend into the heavens. Surely the status of Propeht Ibrahim(عليه السلام) or any other Prophet is lower than Rasoolullah? Why did the Propeht(SAAWS) have to go on a journey mandated by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) himself? Especially since the Prophet (SAAWS) has a direct connection to Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)? So then why have him go on a journey for her?

And the Hadith about smelling paradise he would get it by the fragrance of Sayeda(SA) doenst that only make it more clear?

you see this goes deeper than we can imagine 

If you want to say Sayeda (SA) isn’t as high, fine that’s up to you. That’s your choice

but at least don’t say she is lower. There is no actual basis for that

Rasoolullah (SAAWS) is Rasoolullah (SAAWS)

Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

Sayeda(SA) is Sayeda(SA)

and they are all beloved by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى), and protected by Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى)

Edited by Ralvi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ralvi said:

Rasoolullah (SAAWS) is Rasoolullah (SAAWS)

Imam Ali(عليه السلام) is Imam Ali(عليه السلام)

Sayeda(SA) is Sayeda(SA)

I Agree with you that the miraj has more importance that we can imagine but nobody even Rasoolullah Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) can't have higher status than Rasoolullah (SAAWS) although we can't imagine their status 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ashvazdanghe said:

I Agree with you that the miraj has more importance that we can imagine but nobody even Rasoolullah Ahlul Bayt (عليه السلام) can't have higher status than Rasoolullah (SAAWS) although we can't imagine their status 

Yeah I mean Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) created everything for Rasoolullah(SAAWS) so we can’t even imagine just how much Allah(سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) loves him. His status is uncontested and above anything 

Edited by Ralvi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Salsabeel said:

:D Just tagged you for having your valued comments brother, and this is without the intention of calling you a reformist. 

I knew that. Just had to say it though...hehehe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/19/2019 at 12:25 AM, Salsabeel said:

Human mind is unable to comprehend haqeeqat of "Isra" or "Miraj" that's why most of the Muslims scholars have tried to limit this great miracle by stating that it was a spiritual journey and was not a bodily ascension. Some have said it happened during his sleep and again denied bodily ascension. I can see how hard it is for people to understand and accept the reality of Miraj while Allah (سُبْحَانَهُ وَ تَعَالَى) Himself mentioning it by beginning the verse with "Subhan Allathi" (Limitless in His glory is He) 

سُبْحَانَ الَّذِي أَسْرَىٰ بِعَبْدِهِ لَيْلًا مِنَ الْمَسْجِدِ الْحَرَامِ إِلَى الْمَسْجِدِ الْأَقْصَى الَّذِي بَارَكْنَا حَوْلَهُ لِنُرِيَهُ مِنْ آيَاتِنَا
17:1

Perhaps they think it is not possible for "basharun mithlokum" (Human like them) to ascend to heavens without wearing space suit :D

I would like to know what are the views of reformists and those who reject the hadith on this great event. 

@Fink, @786:), @skyweb1987, @Ashvazdanghe, @ShiaMan14, @Leibniz
 

The funny thing is people have no problem believing that

angels can travel the distance between heavens and Earth in the blink of an eye,

Iblees can divert people from the right path in multiple places at the same time,

the Angel of Death can take souls across the world at the same time

the throne can be brought to Solomon in the blink of an eye or less

 

..but how could Allah's best and most superior creation aka Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) travel to the Heavens...thats impossible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, ShiaMan14 said:

The funny thing is people have no problem believing that

angels can travel the distance between heavens and Earth in the blink of an eye,

Iblees can divert people from the right path in multiple places at the same time,

the Angel of Death can take souls across the world at the same time

the throne can be brought to Solomon in the blink of an eye or less

 

..but how could Allah's best and most superior creation aka Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) travel to the Heavens...thats impossible.

That's a silly argument. It goes back to the God can do anything he wants so why don't you believe this or that?? 

Again not saying it did or didn't happen, just pointing to the flawed approach.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/20/2019 at 9:33 AM, Fink said:

That's a silly argument. It goes back to the God can do anything he wants so why don't you believe this or that?? 

Again not saying it did or didn't happen, just pointing to the flawed approach.

Brother - all the arguments listed above can proven from the Qur'an, so can Miraj.

How many people argue about 1 Angel of Death taking the lives of thousands at the same time across the World?

I am not saying Miraj happened or didnt but if someone believes in the examples I cited, then why not believe in Miraj too?

Also, Allah already said He called the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) so it's not a question of "can Allah invite the Prophet?". He did per the Qur'an.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...