Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Defaming The Wife Of The Prophet(s) Is Forbidden

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

u Have gone Mad

No time to read all your rubbish

Comparing a masoom Imam with Ghair e masoom, the problem is here.

but we accept masoom Imam and thats Imam e Zamana (as) and waitng to see what will be your attitude when He (as)

In Haqq-ul-Yaqeen, Allama Baqir Majlisi writes on the authority of an Imam(as) :-

"After Makkah, Imam Mehdi(atfs) will proceed to Madinah, the city of our grandfather, Rasulullah. At Madinah, he (Imam Mehdi(atfs)) will demonstrate an astonishing act which will be a cause of great happiness for the Mu'mineen and a cause of disgrace for the kuffar and munafiqeen ... When Imam Mehdi(atfs) will reach the grave of Rasulullah, he will ask the people: "0 people! Is this the grave of our grandfather, Rasulullah?" The people will say - "Yes, this is his grave." Imam Mehdi(atfs) will then ask:"

"Who are these persons who have been buried alongside our grandfather!"

The people will say: "They are Abu Bakr and Umar, the closest companions of Rasulullah I" Imam Mehdi (inspite of knowing everything) will say:

"Who was Abu Bakr? And, who was Umar? What was their excellence which necessitated their burial alongside our grandfather?"...

"After three days, Sahibul Amr (atfs) will order the walls to be broken and their bodies exhumed .. After the exhumation of their bodies, he will order their kafan to be removed and their bodies will

be hung up on a dried out tree... "

Imam Mehdi(atfs) will command a dark storm to destroy those who loved them (i.e. Abu Bakr and Umar). Imam Mehdi will then order that the bodies be taken down from the tree. With the power of Allah, Imam Mehdi will restore them to life. He will order all mankind to gather. Then these two will be held liable for the sin of all oppression and kufr which occurred from the beginning of the world. They will be held responsible for all such sin .....

The sin of every murder committed, of every act of adultery committed, of every act of riba, of every act of haram wealth and injustice perpetrated until the advent of Imam Mehdi's appearance, will be charged against them (Abu Bakr and, Umar). Both of them will plead guilty to all these crimes ... Sahibul Amr will then command that they be hanged on a tree. He will command a fire to rise from the earth and devour them. A fire will (miraculously) rise and reduce them (Abu Bakr and Umar) and the tree to ashes.. "

http://al-imam.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=1280

^Fabrication. See: http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/6/24/2896028//Aboo%20Bakr%20and%20Umar%20hung%20from%20a%20tree_fabricated.pdf

w/s

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 700
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

(bismillah) (salam) I think you have misunderstood the meaning of "Unity". Unity does not mean Shia should become Sunni or Sunnis should become Shias. Nor does it mean we accept each others beliefs o

In His Name, the Most High Salaams I really don't understand why there is such a difficulty in understanding this from the part of some people. Wallah it's very strange. Look, we are Shia, we accept

(salam) I agree with you completely that we in the School of Ahlulbayt should not be defaming the wife of the Prophet (pbuh) at all. Unfortunately we have Shia's that do this kind of behavior on the

Posted Images

  • Advanced Member

Amir al Mu'mineen says: "Had Omar not forbade the muta' no one would commit adultery except an immoral person"

I've heard this hadith and posting it as I remember, so don't ask for ref. Maybe someone else can post the ref. and the correct translation.

(BTW this is the reason why Omar would be punished for all adultery committed because they couldnt perform muta.... )

Link to post
Share on other sites

Amir al Mu'mineen says: "Had Omar not forbade the muta' no one would commit adultery except an immoral person"

I've heard this hadith and posting it as I remember, so don't ask for ref. Maybe someone else can post the ref. and the correct translation.

(BTW this is the reason why Omar would be punished for all adultery committed because they couldnt perform muta.... )

In His Name, the Most High

Yes, and what part of fabrication don't you understand?

While Umar did forbid Muta' and indeed made many many mistakes - it should also be understood that Allah hadn't forbidden it and people were still able to practice it - as Imam Ali(A) hadn't forbidden it. Fact. Also, Allah only punishes a person for their own sins - it's crucual and part of his Justice - so to suggest that someone else will get punished for anothers sins is well to put it politely - confused.

Shabbir

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Amir al Mu'mineen says: "Had Omar not forbade the muta' no one would commit adultery except an immoral person"

I've heard this hadith and posting it as I remember, so don't ask for ref. Maybe someone else can post the ref. and the correct translation.

(BTW this is the reason why Omar would be punished for all adultery committed because they couldnt perform muta.... )

I understand your point.

But what about the people who committed these sins before he was born.

Why should he be punished for their sins?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

That's your point of view, ever heard of thawab jarriyah??

I kill one person, I should be punished for one murder right?? but what about the child that lost a father the pain and suffering the child went throguh, wasnt able to get a good education as no one was there to provide and guide the child and grew up to be a crimnal didn't I play a hand in turning that child into a crimnal?? now what about all the crimes that child committs?? Don't I have a share in it??

By the way did Ayesha fight Imam Ali or not? and was she responsible for the 100's of deaths if not not 1,000's at Jamal?? If you answer yes then tell me where do you think such a person would go?? Just answer these questions then you can hold on to your views and how we should perform tabbara but just answer the above questions.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

That's your point of view, ever heard of thawab jarriyah??

I kill one person, I should be punished for one murder right?? but what about the child that lost a father the pain and suffering the child went throguh, wasnt able to get a good education as no one was there to provide and guide the child and grew up to be a crimnal didn't I play a hand in turning that child into a crimnal?? now what about all the crimes that child committs?? Don't I have a share in it??

(bismillah)

Yes, but that is not the issue. If you, God forbid, kill someone you could be punished for bad things that resulted from and after that murder.

But I am talking about the past. Past meaning the time before you were born. Why should you be punished for all the murders that happened 100 years, 500 years or 10,000 years before your birth.

Beginning of the World =======sins======> Your birth ==== you kill someone =======sins======> World Ends.

I understand the red period, but why should be punished for the blue period.

WS

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

My post wasn't meant for you, I was addressing shabbir hassanly, however as far as your questions is concerned, I just have to say I don't know, but all the sins of mankind pales in comparison to the ones they committed themselves so I don't really care either what they will be punished for, all I know is that their perm address is HELL.

Link to post
Share on other sites

That's your point of view, ever heard of thawab jarriyah??

I kill one person, I should be punished for one murder right?? but what about the child that lost a father the pain and suffering the child went throguh, wasnt able to get a good education as no one was there to provide and guide the child and grew up to be a crimnal didn't I play a hand in turning that child into a crimnal?? now what about all the crimes that child committs?? Don't I have a share in it??

By the way did Ayesha fight Imam Ali or not? and was she responsible for the 100's of deaths if not not 1,000's at Jamal?? If you answer yes then tell me where do you think such a person would go?? Just answer these questions then you can hold on to your views and how we should perform tabbara but just answer the above questions.

In His Name, the Most High

I understand what you are saying, but the premise of what you are saying is flawed. If a person say kills someone, then that person and that person alone is guilty. The family of that person, the children of that person are not guilty and are not liable to be punished for the crime of their parent. This is basic logic and indeed the basics of Islamic Jurisprudence.

If that child commits crimes, then it is responsible for it's own crimes, and you cannot blame another for the crimes of that child. To do so would be unjust. Emotionally one might feel that "oh that poor child, it had an abused childhood and hence it just did what it's father did", but emotion plays no part in Judicial rulings. Understand that as it is very important. Otherwise all manner of psychotic and fundamentally unjust rulings would be present.

When a person commits the crime, the child and family are not to be harmed or accused of that crime. I'll give you an example from contemporary times that highlights this point.

Recently, in Lebanon, where many spies have been caught, spying for the Zionist Cancer, and indeed some of these spies have been instrumental in some of the attacks in the July 2006 War. The spies themselves are guilty, and indeed they deserve the death penelty. But Sayyed Hassan(HA) catagorically said that the familys and children of the spies are NOT GUILTY and hence should be treated fairly and with respect, they are not to be tainted with the spying charges on their father. He further said that the spy, when he/she does their spying, they leave the fold of Islam, and they are automatically distanced from their family on account of their betrayal and treason.

Only the Spy is guilty, not the children, wife, uncle, fifth cousin nine times removed. Only the perpetrator of the crime.

If a father is a criminal and is caught and brought to justice. Then the child and family are not to be tainted with the crime of the father. Rather, society has a due responsibility to help and support and help them overcome the trauma of their father's actions and to make them feel that they are not abandoned or alone. Any other course of actions would be to punish the child and family for the crime of the father, even if that punishment is by distancing from them - that is nevertheless a punishment. An innocent person cannot be punished. This is core to Islam.

As for Ayesha, the wife of the Prophet(S), rising up against Imam Ali(A) in Jamal, I am not excusing that behaviour. It is know that it was a mistake that she did. It is also known that Imam Ali(A) didn't abuse or defame her following his victory in Jamal, rather he treated her with the utmost of respect. Now tell me something, do you genuinely believe - even though the hadeeth that you use as your basis is a proven fabrication and a fraud - do you really and honestly believe that Imam Mahdi(AJ) is going to act in a manner that is different to Imam Ali(A)? If you do, then with respect, I make a distance between you and me, as I do not wish to ascribe to my beloved Imam al-Mahdi(AJ) something of which he is innocent.

But understand one thing. The science of hadeeth is highly complex. Ahadeeth have contexts, one has to examine said context. Ahadeeth also have to wiegh up against Quranic doctrine, and if they contradict Quran, then they are suspect at best. Ahadeeth can also - like the media today - can be fabricated, an example regarding Onions, Prophet and Acre comes to mind, though I will not repeat it for the sake of brevity.

Ayesha, the wife of the Prophet, is guilty of many mistakes, many ahadeeth have been allegedly transmitted by her, though the authenticity of those ahadeeth is not known by myself and in case it is not important at this stage. However, she can only be punished for the crimes that she committed. She cannot be punished for the crimes of all those who went before her and all those who came after her. That is illogical and against Quran, and hence the entire premise of that line of thought is broken and flawed. Quran says clearly:

ßõáóø ÅöäÓóÇäò ÃóáúÒóãúäóÇåõ ØóÇÆöÑóåõ Ýöí ÚõäõÞöåö ۖ æóäõÎúÑöÌõ áóåõ íóæúãó ÇáúÞöíóÇãóÉö ßöÊóÇÈðÇ íóáúÞóÇåõ ãóäÔõæÑðÇ ﴿13﴾ ÇÞúÑóÃú ßöÊóÇÈóßó ßóÝóìٰ ÈöäóÝúÓößó Çáúíóæúãó Úóáóíúßó ÍóÓöíÈðÇ ﴿14﴾ ãóøäö ÇåúÊóÏóìٰ ÝóÅöäóøãóÇ íóåúÊóÏöí áöäóÝúÓöåö ۖ æóãóä Öóáóø ÝóÅöäóøãóÇ íóÖöáõø ÚóáóíúåóÇ ۚ æóáóÇ ÊóÒöÑõ æóÇÒöÑóÉñ æöÒúÑó ÃõÎúÑóìٰ ۗ æóãóÇ ßõäóøÇ ãõÚóÐöøÈöíäó ÍóÊóøìٰ äóÈúÚóËó ÑóÓõæáðÇ ﴿15﴾

Every man's fate We have fastened on his own neck: On the Day of Judgment We shall bring out for him a scroll, which he will see spread open. (13) (It will be said to him:) "Read thine (own) record: Sufficient is thy soul this day to make out an account against thee." (14) Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an messenger (to give warning).

(Quran, Surah al-Isra (#17), Verses 13-15)

The portion I have highlighted in bold says it very clearly. No soul can bear the burden of another. This therefore, takes your weak argument that Brother Orion also questioned you on, and throws it firmly against the wall as a discredited understanding.

After all, tell me, would you want your son to be forced to endure suffering and punishment for your mistakes?

Also, I would caution and advise you, instead of constantly suggesting that the position of others is hell, you need to work on yourself and not falsely attribute sayings to the Prophet(S) or Aimmah al-Athaar(A) as that is also a crime against Allah, and one for which the perpetrator will be punished.

Instead of dwelling on their sins, of which Allah is far better versed and aware of than you can ever hope to be, focus on yourself, and focus on building your connection to Allah, and standing for the Truth instead of standing for that which massages your ego.

I trust you understand.

Shabbir

Link to post
Share on other sites

How does exposing the crimes of Aisha amount to 'defamation' ?

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Exposing the mistakes of Aisha and any of the companions is NOT what the discussion is about. The ruling from Imam Khamenei(HA) is about defamation, and slandering.

However, exposing the mistakes for the sake of exposing them, is invalid and pointless. It serves no purpose. However, if it is for educational purposes to advise people, or to learn about history and is done in a respectiful and non-slanderous manner, then it is fine.

Sadly some people have the inability to differentiate the two. A historical discussion for academic and educational purposes to increase one's understanding and hence one's belief is NOT a problem. A historical discussion designed to simply abuse and "have a laugh about" a given companion or companions is invalid and unjustifiable.

Random and mindless slander of the Wives and Companions of the Prophet(S) is also completely unacceptable.

Insha Allah that helps.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally
Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

Exposing the mistakes of Aisha and any of the companions is NOT what the discussion is about. The ruling from Imam Khamenei(HA) is about defamation, and slandering.

However, exposing the mistakes for the sake of exposing them, is invalid and pointless. It serves no purpose. However, if it is for educational purposes to advise people, or to learn about history and is done in a respectiful and non-slanderous manner, then it is fine.

Sadly some people have the inability to differentiate the two. A historical discussion for academic and educational purposes to increase one's understanding and hence one's belief is NOT a problem. A historical discussion designed to simply abuse and "have a laugh about" a given companion or companions is invalid and unjustifiable.

Random and mindless slander of the Wives and Companions of the Prophet(S) is also completely unacceptable.

Insha Allah that helps.

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

What is defamation then. Can I call her a murderer or warmonger?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

In His Name, the Most High

I understand what you are saying, but the premise of what you are saying is flawed. If a person say kills someone, then that person and that person alone is guilty. The family of that person, the children of that person are not guilty and are not liable to be punished for the crime of their parent. This is basic logic and indeed the basics of Islamic Jurisprudence.

Shabbir

I never argued that the family of a crimnal is somehow responsible for ones crimnal deeds, rather I was trying to say that if one commits a crime, you cannot say that person is responsible to that one cime, as there are other consequnces of that one crime. Like Omar banning Muta leads to a multitude of sins committed by others but Omar will be held responsible for them as well.

Can you also answer the following

By the way did Ayesha fight Imam Ali or not? and was she responsible for the 100's of deaths if not not 1,000's at Jamal?? If you answer yes then tell me where do you think such a person would go?? Just answer these questions then you can hold on to your views and how we should perform tabbara but just answer the above questions.
Edited by MOHIB E AHLAYBAIT
Link to post
Share on other sites

"Mistakes"? Do you hear yourself here? The tyrants and enemies commit "mistakes" while on fellow Shi`as you'll let loose a tyrade of insults and curses.

A mistake is a wrong unintentionally done. Oops, I took the wrong road, I made a mistake. Oh dear, I order the wrong size clothing, what a mistake. Hmm, I got this answer wrong on the test, that was a dumb mistake.

Leading an army of rebels to fight against and kill the supporters of the rightful Imam and successor of the Prophet (pbuh) is not a "mistake". For goodness sake I see little difference in what you're saying here than what Sunnis say. Tell me, was it just that her ijtihad was incorrect?

No, it was not a "mistake", it was an act of kufr and apostasy for which she and all those who followed her are deserving of eternal Hellfire. If you're in the least unclear on this, I warn you of what our Imams (as) taught about such matters:

[ 34923 ] 20 Ü æÝí ( ÇáÇÚÊÞÇÏÇÊ ) ÞÇá : ÞÇá ÇáÕÇÏÞ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ãä Ôß Ýí ßÝÑ ÃÚÏÇÆäÇ æÇáÙÇáãíä áäÇ Ýåæ ßÇÝÑ .

20 – And in al-I`tiqadat he said: as-Sadiq Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: Whoever doubts in the kufr of our enemies and the oppressors of us, then he is a kafir.

[ 10751 ] 3 Ü æÈÅÓäÇÏå Úä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÓÚíÏ ¡ Úä ÇáäÖÑ ¡ Úä íÍíì ÇáÍáÈí ¡ Úä ÇÈä ãÓßÇä ¡ Úä ÅÓãÇÚíá ÇáÌÚÝí ÞÇá : ÞáÊ áÇÈí ÌÚÝÑ ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) : ÑÌá íÍÈ ÃãíÑ ÇáãÄãäíä ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) æáÇ íÊÈÑà ãä ÚÏæå æíÞæá : åæ ÃÍÈ Åáí ããä ÎÇáÝå ¡ ÝÞÇá : åÐÇ ãÎáØ æåæ ÚÏæ ¡ ÝáÇ ÊÕá ÎáÝå æáÇ ßÑÇãÉ ÅáÇ Ãä ÊÊÞíå .

3 – And by his isnad form al-Husayn b. Sa`id from an-Nadr from Yahya al-Halabi from Ibn Muskan from Isma`il al-Ju`fi. He said: I said to Abu Ja`far Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: A man who loves Amir al-Mu’mineen Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã but does not do bara’a from his enemies, and he says: He is more beloved to me from those who opposed him. So he said: This is a confused (person) and he is an enemy, so do not pray behind him and there is no honor (?) unless you fear him.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is defamation then. Can I call her a murderer or warmonger?

In His Name, the Most High

Salaams

If the phrasology you use, while possibly historically accurate, would be something you would accept as non-defamatory and non-abusive to your own biological mother, then fair enough. If it would be offensive to your biological mother, then I think it is fair to say that it is defamatory. Also, you cannot say something that is not correct about anyone. If you don't know then the best course of action is to not say anything.

Also, why do you want to invest so much time in cursing and slandering and badmouthing. Instead wouldn't you say it's more prudent to develop and improve your own relationship with Allah rather than worry about another person's? Truely this fetish and obsession with cursing - under the guise of Tabarra - is truely depressing and pitiful.

Tabarra means dissassociating form. When you hate someone (as many of your do), you spend an insane number of hours thinking of them. Hate and love are two sides of the same coin, in both states, you think about the object of your hate or love all the time, it is an obsession of sorts. Rather, true Tabarra is not about hate, it is about indifference regarding and understanding the irrelavence and dissassocating from.

Sure, Tawallah is about accepting the guardianship and having love for, no doubt, but tabarra is about disassociation, not about having rabid hatred for. Hate requires massive investments in terms of time and effort. Why do that? Why invest so much time in such a negative arena? To what end? Rather, invest in ensuring that you do not become the object of Allah's indifference - and that Allah and Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) doesn't make bara'a from you.

Insha Allah that helps.

Also, my respected brother IbnKhaldun, thanks for posting the response of the respected Shaykh of al-Azhar regarding the fatwa issued by Imam Khamenei(HA).

With Salaams and Dua's

Shabbir

"Mistakes"? Do you hear yourself here? The tyrants and enemies commit "mistakes" while on fellow Shi`as you'll let loose a tyrade of insults and curses.

A mistake is a wrong unintentionally done. Oops, I took the wrong road, I made a mistake. Oh dear, I order the wrong size clothing, what a mistake. Hmm, I got this answer wrong on the test, that was a dumb mistake.

Leading an army of rebels to fight against and kill the supporters of the rightful Imam and successor of the Prophet (pbuh) is not a "mistake". For goodness sake I see little difference in what you're saying here than what Sunnis say. Tell me, was it just that her ijtihad was incorrect?

No, it was not a "mistake", it was an act of kufr and apostasy for which she and all those who followed her are deserving of eternal Hellfire. If you're in the least unclear on this, I warn you of what our Imams (as) taught about such matters:

[ 34923 ] 20 ـ وفي ( الاعتقادات ) قال : قال الصادق ( عليه السلام ) : من شك في كفر أعدائنا والظالمين لنا فهو كافر .

20 – And in al-I`tiqadat he said: as-Sadiq عليه السلام said: Whoever doubts in the kufr of our enemies and the oppressors of us, then he is a kafir.

[ 10751 ] 3 ـ وبإسناده عن الحسين بن سعيد ، عن النضر ، عن يحيى الحلبي ، عن ابن مسكان ، عن إسماعيل الجعفي قال : قلت لابي جعفر ( عليه السلام ) : رجل يحب أمير المؤمنين ( عليه السلام ) ولا يتبرأ من عدوه ويقول : هو أحب إلي ممن خالفه ، فقال : هذا مخلط وهو عدو ، فلا تصل خلفه ولا كرامة إلا أن تتقيه .

3 – And by his isnad form al-Husayn b. Sa`id from an-Nadr from Yahya al-Halabi from Ibn Muskan from Isma`il al-Ju`fi. He said: I said to Abu Ja`far عليه السلام: A man who loves Amir al-Mu’mineen عليه السلام but does not do bara’a from his enemies, and he says: He is more beloved to me from those who opposed him. So he said: This is a confused (person) and he is an enemy, so do not pray behind him and there is no honor (?) unless you fear him.

In His Name, the Most High

Excellent. So now for the "Ahl al-Hadeeth" people like you, it would seem that hadeeth is more powerful than Quran. 7amdu lillah. I give you another line of Quran, take it how you will:

لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ

To you be your way, and to me mine

(Quran, Surah al-Kafirun (#109), Verse #6)

(for the retarded people here, just because I am quoting from Surah al-Kafirun, I am not making Takfir, I am merely stating my position with regard to the Ahl al-Hadeeth people like Mr McIssac and others, who are obsessed with wanting to curse, defame and slander those who are respected by our brethren of the Sunnah, in an attempt to create further strife and harm the cohesion of the Ummah - a stance that has been explicitly forbidden by Imam Khamenei(HA))

I trust you understand.

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Banned

sakhi this whole fatwa boils down to little more than yet another political fatwa from another ayatollah playing yet another power game (yet again badly)

it shud be seen as what it is, a PR stunt by ayatollah khamenei to suck up to sunnis and basically tell the rest of the shia world to take a running jump.

but then we have members like shabbir who automatically see this fatwa as an excuse to DEFEND ammi jaan.

did u hear what he was saying? "she made a mistake" wtf is he a sunni or a shia

Edited by maula dha mallang
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member
"Mistakes"? Do you hear yourself here? The tyrants and enemies commit "mistakes" while on fellow Shi`as you'll let loose a tyrade of insults and curses.

A mistake is a wrong unintentionally done. Oops, I took the wrong road, I made a mistake. Oh dear, I order the wrong size clothing, what a mistake. Hmm, I got this answer wrong on the test, that was a dumb mistake.

Well it's quite rare that someone does wrong intentionally. To do wrong intentionally would mean that someone has all the necessary information available, has analyzed that information correctly based on proper logic, and comes to the proper conclusion about what is the right course of action, yet insists on doing something else. How often does this happen? Not often.

Typically, people choose wrong by mistake. Either their reasoning processes are faulty / illogical, or the information they are using to understand the situation is incomplete or erroneous.

[

What is defamation then. Can I call her a murderer or warmonger?

95-99% of the time, when one resorts to simplistic labels, one is engaging in defamation.

Why do you have difficulty with simply stating history in an objective, factual manner? Just stick to the facts.

She contributed to stoking the anger of the groups that killed Uthman. She succumbed to misguidance and manipulation by a circle around her and led an army against Ali in the Battle of Jamal.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

(bismillah)

This topic makes me sad.

This fatwa was about good taqiyya. People who are against the Sayed (rh) have taken it too far as to say he is letting go of tashayuu' and becoming the khilaaf. While those over zealous in their following have come to covering the injustice and transgression of the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as).

Allah (swt) bring us guidance to the widened straight path.

(salam)

Link to post
Share on other sites

95-99% of the time, when one resorts to simplistic labels, one is engaging in defamation.

Why do you have difficulty with simply stating history in an objective, factual manner? Just stick to the facts.

She contributed to stoking the anger of the groups that killed Uthman. She succumbed to misguidance and manipulation by a circle around her and led an army against Ali in the Battle of Jamal.

Great, by that reasoning we could find the likes of Yazid and Hitler as not so bad since perhaps they succumbed to 'misguidance and manipulation'.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I don't even understand the problem (with the fatwa). What's new? Do macisaac and MDM actually have anything to say? Or are they just shouting nonsense because shabbir was the OP?

As tempted as I'd be to kick him off this forum for good (and perhaps there'll come a point at which I'd do so)

You are a pathetic admin. So much for silencing the opposition then..

Then again, its not a surprise from someone who we've all already seen abusing his power before..

sakhi this whole fatwa boils down to little more than yet another political fatwa from another ayatollah playing yet another power game (yet again badly)

it shud be seen as what it is, a PR stunt by ayatollah khamenei to suck up to sunnis and basically tell the rest of the shia world to take a running jump.

but then we have members like shabbir who automatically see this fatwa as an excuse to DEFEND ammi jaan.

did u hear what he was saying? "she made a mistake" wtf is he a sunni or a shia

And this post should be seen as someone expressing their inferiority complex?

Do you ever have anything useful to say? Only stabs from the side..

Link to post
Share on other sites

In His Name, the Most High

I never argued that the family of a crimnal is somehow responsible for ones crimnal deeds, rather I was trying to say that if one commits a crime, you cannot say that person is responsible to that one cime, as there are other consequnces of that one crime. Like Omar banning Muta leads to a multitude of sins committed by others but Omar will be held responsible for them as well.

Can you also answer the following

I have said before, I do not deny a historical event. I know that she was instigated by Muawiyyah and hence faught against Imam Ali(A), an act she was advised against by Rasul(S). I also know that Imam Ali(A) treated her after the battle, after having overpowered her forces, with respect and dignity. Also I am not so arrogant as to judge where a person's final place is, that is Allah's perogative, and it is not important for me to worry about. How a person is judged by Allah is not my domain, sorry can't help you on that, but love for Allah prevents me from over stepping the mark and judging on his behalf, however, I have never said that she didn't make mistakes and errors of judgement and indeed what could be classifed as crimes.

I have explained about Tabarra, the people who you and your ilk wish to hate rabidly, are always on your mind, and they prevent you from reaching Allah's perfection and seeing the purity of the truth. Hate and love are two sides of the same coin. You spend a massive percentage of your existances thinking of those who you hate as well as those who you love. Personally, I choose to not hate, but rather be indifferent to, since that is actually what Tabarra is - it is not hating, it is being indifferent to, it is disassociating from. When you hate, you have NOT disassociated from a person, they are always on your mind - this is a psychological fact.

If you can't understand that, then with respect, you need to get some serious help.

My dear brother, lets not for the sake of 'unity' trivialise her crimes. In doing so, you mock the your own assertions of Tawallah.

I am not trivializing her mistakes and crimes. I rather choose to ignore there relavence on my connection to Allah, regarding which to be brutally honest, they have no bearing. I choose a pathway of indifference, not hate. Now all of you who want to choose the path of hatred thinking in some confused way that Tabarra is all about hate, then with respect, you are not only linguistically inept in the Arabic language, you are also fundamentally ignorant, and I see very little different between you and the Wahabbiyyeh who choose to curse us. Both of you exhibit rabid and mindless hatred, which solves and achieves absolutely nothing.

When I am indifferent regarding a person, that person ceases to be relavent for me. I do not spend decades of my life thinking about how horrible their actions were, and indeed it is a mute point to think of such, because it doesn't give me any closeness to Allah, to Rasul(S) or to Ahl al-Bayt(A). Rather if I sit and reflect on those I love - Allah, the Rasul(S) and Ahl al-Bayt(A) - then subhan Allah, what an amazing and beautiful wealth of knowledge and examples I have. Examples and knowledge that moves a person towards Allah, towards perfection, towards true loyalty to Allah and to the line of Allah.

Hate on the other hand, achieves nothing. Results in a person having a black and bitter heart filled with bile.

LOL, you guys who hate, you're truely pitiful. In reality you spend more time thinking about those who you hate, than thinking about Allah, Rasul(S) and Ahl al-Bayt(A). Just look at this thread, the bulk of what you people speak of is from ahadeeth, whereas we have spoken from Quran, and given proofs from Quran.

But due to your fetish at hating your rabid hatred, you have distanced yourselves from Quran and cannot even contemplate Quran. Learn from people like Lady Fidha(A), who knew the reality of things far more than you, but she spoke for decades ONLY from Quran, she didn't hate, she disassociated from those who harmed Ahl al-Bayt(A) and those who went against what Rasul(S) had said and Allah had said. She focused by on what they had gone against, Allah and Rasul(S) and look at how amazing she was. Subhan Allah. if only Allah would open your hearts and make you understand. Hatred is meaningless and tiresome, it is not from the qualities of the believer. The believer doesn't need to hate, only that person who has blinded himself and is no longer rational or sane hates.

Look at the Abbasiyeen, the Ummawiyeen, look at Muawiyyah, he hated Imam Ali(A), he made people curse Imam Ali(A) - where did it get him? No where. Imam Sajjad(A) had every reason to hate Yazid, but he chose indifference and the path of movement towards Allah - that doesn't mean he didn't speak out against Yazid, no indifference is not being quiet in the face of injustice - indifference is when you don't make that person who you are indifferent to the focus of your entire life - even subconsciously - which many of you seem to be doing.

Who are these people who you wish to defame and slander so much? Are they that important to your lives that you spend so many hours doing this? If they are then you need to examine yourself and reflect deeply (if you can't understand what I'm saying here then I pity you greatly). If they are nothing in your lives, they are ones who hurt the ones you claim to love, then why focus on those who hurt the ones you allege to love? Why not just focus on the ones you love? Subhan Allah, if you focus on the ones you love, than imagine how amazing it can be - why waste that time with focusing and dwelling on those who harmed those who you love when you can nothing about it and indeed in many cases what you have to go on is actually not accurate - as has been proven here on this thread more than once?

Honestly, if you really loved Ahl al-Bayt(A) you would not exceed the boundaries. The Ahl al-Bayt(A) didn't exceed the boundaries. If you focused your time more on Ahl al-Bayt(A) and less on those who disliked or went against Ahl al-Bayt(A) then truely you would be more receptive to the Truth. But I fear that perhaps you are so wrapped up in your love for hatred, that you cannot even understand what I am saying and it sounds like gibberish.

If you are sincere, may Allah guide you and open your heart, if you are malice filled and hateful and wish to just create fitneh and problems within the Muslims (knowingly or through arrogance coupled with ignorance) then may Allah destroy you.

Shabbir

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Banned

And this post should be seen as someone expressing their inferiority complex?

Do you ever have anything useful to say? Only stabs from the side..

keep the handbags down, tinkerbell. my point was valid.

Link to post
Share on other sites

sakhi this whole fatwa boils down to little more than yet another political fatwa from another ayatollah playing yet another power game (yet again badly)

it shud be seen as what it is, a PR stunt by ayatollah khamenei to suck up to sunnis and basically tell the rest of the shia world to take a running jump.

but then we have members like shabbir who automatically see this fatwa as an excuse to DEFEND ammi jaan.

did u hear what he was saying? "she made a mistake" wtf is he a sunni or a shia

In His Name, the Most High

Yeah Imam Ali(A) acted like you yeah? Abusive, abbraisive, rude, insulting. Or no wait, from history (authentic verifiable history not mindless ahadeeth by you and your buddies that are fabricated and lies but REAL history), we see that Imam Ali(A) even after Jamal, told her she was wrong, she knew she was wrong, but he didn't dwell on it, and he treated her with respect, leaving her to her devices as such. Even after the events regarding Imam Hasan(A)'s burial, and her unacceptable behaviour then, did Imam Husayn(A) - who was the then Imam, after Imam Hasan(A) Imam Husayn(A) was the Imam - did Imam Husayn(A) go and bawl her out? Did he have her beaten up? Did he slander her? Did he abuse her? No he said she was wrong, she has done a bad thing, she has done a mistake.

Now you don't understand things like this - for reasons I explained in my previous post - because you are so filled with mindless hatred you cannot comprehed the truth even if it comes up to you, taps on the back politely and says "Hello, I'm the Truth".

Hate is not something healthy. You need to see a psychologist, get that hate out of you, and learn indifference. Right now, you think of some people as much as the Wahhabiyyah, there is no difference between you and them - except that you are at different ends of a spectrum. Both of you are on the portion that is extreme and in some cases possibly ghulat.

You really are a most depressing person. As for whether I am Shia or Sunnah, I prefer Muslim. I prefer a lover of Ahl al-Bayt(A), an accepter of the Wilayah of Imam Ali(A) and all of Ahl al-Bayt(A) including Imam al-Hujjah(AJ), the Imam of our Age, may Allah hasten his return and alleviate our suffering. I cannot call myself arrogantly a "Shia" - as I have not been told by my Imam(AJ) that I am from his partisans, however I aspire to be from them, and you cannot comprehend the love that I have for Ahl al-Bayt(A), so please do not presume to.

My many posts, my detailed posts, my lengthy discussions, are only because of the love I have for Ahl al-Bayt(A) and for Allah. They are not because you are anything, I am doing what is my duty, as I will be asked about it on the day regarding which there is no doubt, and I want to be able to answer on that day that I did my absolute best to guide the people, but that they abused and disregarded what I said and the Truth for their own hate-filled reasons. I have no need for recognition from you, you are nothing. Allah is everything, and everything is from Allah.

Also understand that a Shia is not a person who slanders and badmouths and cuts his head open in a vain attempt to remember Imam Husayn(A). Rather a person who truely aspires to be a partisan of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) is one who WALKS THE WALK, who actively works to NOT UPSET THE IMAM OF OUR AGE(AJ), who actively works to adhere to the teachings of the Righteous Islamic Leadership(HA) and the Righteous Ulema(HA), who Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) has told us - in a general capacity - we should follow. The fact that you are always against this line, is indicative of who you are and where your loyalties lie - even though you don't understand it yourself.

Truly I pity you. You really are quite pathetic. Pathetic and arrogant. You call yourself a Shia - do some introspection, and examine if you are really pleasing Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) or are you from those enemies of Imam al-Hujjah(AJ) who profess friendship, but then stab him in the back every moment without even realising it.

I trust you understand.

Shabbir

Edited by shabbir.hassanally
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators

from presstv.ir

The chancellor of Al-Azhar University of Islamic Sciences has welcomed a fatwa issued by Iran's Leader that prohibits insulting the companions of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and his wives.

Ahmad al-Tayyib said in a statement issued on Sunday that the fatwa (religious edict), which was issued by Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamenei, was prudent and timely and would help ram the door shut to fitna (creating divisions among Muslims)

"I received the blessed fatwa with appreciation," he added.

Such insults have always been a source of controversy and disputes between Shia and Sunni Muslims and prevented them from forging a robust unity against common enemies, the Press TV correspondent in Cairo quoted him as saying.

The Western media have not given the fatwa wide coverage, but the Egyptian people and the North African country's media outlets have welcomed the brave move by Iran's Leader.

Ayatollah Khamenei recently said that the Western powers are trying to widen differences between Sunnis and Shias in order to divert attention from the crisis in Palestine.

The Leader of the Islamic Republic of Iran added, "The enemies of Islam want to create discord among Muslims. So, unity is the most important need of the Islamic world in the 21st century.”

(bismillah)

(salam)

Just want to thank the brother for the news and post the link to the website: http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/145103.html

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Forum Administrators

editing and cleaning up his posts will only be doing him an undeserved favor, and making him look much better than he really is.

For the record I won't be editing Bro shabbir's posts. I lose the will to live after about the third word...

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I have said before, I do not deny a historical event. I know that she was instigated by Muawiyyah and hence faught against Imam Ali(A), an act she was advised against by Rasul(S). I also know that Imam Ali(A) treated her after the battle, after having overpowered her forces, with respect and dignity. Also I am not so arrogant as to judge where a person's final place is, that is Allah's perogative, and it is not important for me to worry about. How a person is judged by Allah is not my domain, sorry can't help you on that, but love for Allah prevents me from over stepping the mark and judging on his behalf, however, I have never said that she didn't make mistakes and errors of judgement and indeed what could be classifed as crimes.

Then why do shias go crazy if someone only refers to Yazeed as Hazrat?? Shouldnt we let Allah be judge of Yazeed as well, and not send la'an on him either?? He made mistakes but hey let Allah be the judge of him right?? What about taking ahadith from Abu Hurera,?? How can I say they were not trustworthy, yes they made mistakes but let Allah be the judge of that, and we should start takign our deen from them.

Bottom line is some crimes are so henious the purportator of such acts will surely end up in hell, and we don't ahve to wait for the judgement day to make such statements, or else forget the marg bar America and all other such slogans... let Allah be the judge of everything.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Banned

god only knows what goes on in shabbirs head man, one second he says he isnt arrogant enough to judge people, yet hes spent YEARS telling people they are fitnah mongers, gonna be raised with their masters muawiyyah and all sorts of stuff.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

In His Name, the Most High

Salam

It seems that people are confusing matters in this thread, primarily criticizing a historical event and abusing that event for personal emotions in contemporary times. The fatwa of Imam Khamenei(HA) and the other prominent Ulema is clear. It is haram to defame and badmouth Aisha.

So what is the difference between defaming and criticizing? It all boils down to your intention. If your intention is to have a constructive discussion about a historical event and thus analysing and exposing all the elements of this event in an academic fashion, then you have done nothing wrong. Indeed this is what many of our Ulema for centuries have done.

However if your intention is insincere, if it is to satisfy your own personal desires and thus obeying your ego and/or insulting people of other creed (such as the Sunnis) then you have according to the fatwa commited an haram act which you will be punished for if you don't make a sincere repentance.

Why is this so hard to understand?

If my mother doesn't wear Hijab that doesn't allow me to badmouth her by calling her wretched names which imply she is unchaste, impure or the like. I do however have the right to emphasize the importance of Hijab and the consequences of not wearing it in a more general sense. In the same way Aisha is Umm al-Momening, thus while I can analyse her role in history with a sincere intention, I am not allowed to defame and badmouth her if I realize she has commited errors. This is simple morals and logics.

Also I feel that what Ulema in the past might have said on this issue is not of immediate interest in contrary to what contemporary and living Ulema ARE SAYING. The reason is that the current political scenario is different from what it was in the past. Thus it is our duty to trust our living and present senior Ulema whose duty is to guide us Shias. Due to this fitnah people are getting directly or indirectly killed, abused and harassed. SobhanAllah. If we continue to stubbornly obey our egos and personal vendettas and go against the fatwa of Imam Khamenei(HA) then indeed we contributing to the spilled blood of our Shia brothers who are getting killed throughout the world due to these sectarian strives. I ask you for the love of Allah to please understand this!!!

As tempted as I'd be to kick him off this forum for good (and perhaps there'll come a point at which I'd do so)

Thank you for exposing yourself and your personal grudge against objects whom you have an administrative role over. Clearly you are not fit to be a just administrator with this sort of malice. I hope that you either reform yourself immediately or that the ShiaChat Team removes you from your position which you have failed to live up to.

Salam

Ehsan

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Banned

MDM what about zanjeer giving islam a bad image?? Shouldnt we let Allah be the judge of that??

or how about ZIONISM bro??? shouldnt we leave Allah to judge THAT?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Lots of things give a bad image of Islam.

E.g men being allowed four wives, men being allowed to marry women of the book, women only allowed to marry muslims. Women having to cover, men not having to cover to the same extent etc etc. List goes on. It doesn't mean we stop doing certain acts just because non-muslims or non-shia don't like it. We might as well turn into christians or (worse) sunni. :!!!:

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Lots of things give a bad image of Islam.

E.g men being allowed four wives, men being allowed to marry women of the book, women only allowed to marry muslims. Women having to cover, men not having to cover to the same extent etc etc. List goes on. It doesn't mean we stop doing certain acts just because non-muslims or non-shia don't like it. We might as well turn into christians or (worse) sunni. :!!!:

Are you really comparing the laws of Allah (swt) with human innovations?

Are you familiar wih the saying "Allahu alim"

Edited by ShahHussain
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...