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Zanadine

Does Allah Lie ...

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Salaam,

A sunni wahabi debator has been telling me that its in our book Al kaafi that Allah lies. or can lie.. I asked him to show me references. He said just look into Al Kaafi.. well, i said, even if it did.. its weak.. and you have tons of hadith which you try to call it weak. such as Ayesha narrating Prophet contemplating Suicide.

So if you have weak hadith.. so can we.

So i want to know if anyone is aware of such hadith.. because honestly i have never heard of it.. and sunnis tend to misinterpret and twist it intentionally shia hadith. I thank Allah i converted to Shia some time back..!!!! I love shia Islam.

Zanadine.

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the shia beliefs indirectly insult everything islamic, so i expect there to be some truth in this, mainly because horror stories always get worse and we've already had 'all but a few believers apostated.' so worse is most likely very very bad indeed

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Salaam,

A sunni wahabi debator has been telling me that its in our book Al kaafi that Allah lies. or can lie.. I asked him to show me references. He said just look into Al Kaafi.. well, i said, even if it did.. its weak.. and you have tons of hadith which you try to call it weak. such as Ayesha narrating Prophet contemplating Suicide.

So if you have weak hadith.. so can we.

So i want to know if anyone is aware of such hadith.. because honestly i have never heard of it.. and sunnis tend to misinterpret and twist it intentionally shia hadith. I thank Allah i converted to Shia some time back..!!!! I love shia Islam.

Zanadine.

(salam)

The issue rather allegation has been discussed here:

Bada'; Change in creation's destiny by Divine Knowledge

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@zanadine

care the share the ahadit with refrence n chain of narrators in which AIsha (ra) narrating prophet contemplating suicide?

AYESHA NARRATED PROPHET CONTEMPLATING SUICIDE!!! (totally against Islam)

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 9, Book 87, Number 111

Narrated Aisha:

The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah’s Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship (Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, “I do not know how to read.” (The Prophet added), “The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, “I do not know how to read,” whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, “I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?).” Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, “Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous…up to….. ..that which he knew not.” (96.15)

Then Allah’s Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, “Cover me! Cover me!” They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, “O Khadija, what is wrong with me?” Then he told her everything that had happened and said, “I fear that something may happen to me.” Khadija said, “Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good reactions with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones.” Khadija then accompanied him to (her cousin) Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin ‘Abdul ‘Uzza bin Qusai. Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father’s brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the Gospels in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to him, “O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew.” Waraqa asked, “O my nephew! What have you seen?” The Prophet described whatever he had seen.

Waraqa said, “This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out.” Allah’s Apostle asked, “Will they turn me out?” Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: “Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly.” But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, “O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah’s Apostle in truth” whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before.

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Men lie. But they don't know it because the only reason they're capable of lying is due to ignorance. For man who seeks to dissolve himself of ignorance there will be no lie. This man will only see truth.

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(salam)

The issue rather allegation has been discussed here:

Bada'; Change in creation's destiny by Divine Knowledge

amazing article it was.. Alhamdullah.. I am very satisfied and i am still reading it in detail. as always.. Shia'sm TRUE ISLAM PRESERVED by Imam Ali & lady of light Fatima is indeed the true teachings of the Prophet Muhammad (S) well preserved.. and its flawless diamond.

the shia beliefs indirectly insult everything islamic, so i expect there to be some truth in this, mainly because horror stories always get worse and we've already had 'all but a few believers apostated.' so worse is most likely very very bad indeed

Shia beliefs indirectly insult everything un-Islamic. I swear to Allah .. I am a son of Sunni salafi Alim and i converted to Shia because its the truth. You come to the path.. and stop looking at them through hateful eyes. Allah has promised that he will punish those who practice hatred prejidice (assabiyya).

Shia'sm is the movement of Ali (S) to preserved the Prophets true teachings from getting distorted by Abubakr, Umar, Uthman, Ayesha, Mawiya etc. who maintained the Prophet left no successor Ali in charge of the state and no property of fadak for Fatima. so they can ROB the Islamic Ummah.. and lust after POWER out of selfishness and greed.

there is no doubt about it.

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the shia beliefs indirectly insult everything islamic, so i expect there to be some truth in this, mainly because horror stories always get worse and we've already had 'all but a few believers apostated.' so worse is most likely very very bad indeed

I am missing some knowledgeable Sunnis here. It has become one sided game now. I hardly find some Sunni with knowledge. Only Sunnis knowing nothing are coming. What an ignorant statement it is that "I expect some truth in this". Simply idiotic. What can say about such statements?

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I am missing some knowledgeable Sunnis here. It has become one sided game now. I hardly find some Sunni with knowledge. Only Sunnis knowing nothing are coming. What an ignorant statement it is that "I expect some truth in this". Simply idiotic. What can say about such statements?

It goes both way, this subforum has deteriorated severely in quality

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It goes both way, this subforum has deteriorated severely in quality

Ok let us start with "Ba'da". I have a simple question to you....

"My "Rizq" is already mentioned in the "Book" (fate or Loh e Mehfoz) then what is the purpose of praying for "enhancement in my "rizq"? The time of my death is fixed and predestined then what is the use of praying Allah for enhancement in my life? .

The question is to Kalim and other Sunnis also.

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari

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Allah (swt) lying? I almost lol'd!

Our Lord and Creator... Lying?

I'm... sorry..

This is just too stupid

Who in their right mind would ever, EVER, even consider this?

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the shia beliefs indirectly insult everything islamic, so i expect there to be some truth in this, mainly because horror stories always get worse and we've already had 'all but a few believers apostated.' so worse is most likely very very bad indeed

ermm??? I would ask you to make sense of that but I dont think you can,

youre excused.

you lie...

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I am missing some knowledgeable Sunnis here. It has become one sided game now. I hardly find some Sunni with knowledge. Only Sunnis knowing nothing are coming. What an ignorant statement it is that "I expect some truth in this". Simply idiotic. What can say about such statements?

dont flatter yourself,you are very much ignorant yourself

youve obviously outright rejected the obvious praise of the sahaba in the quran. even as an ignorant you should know the implications of that yourself

you trawl sunni hadiths looking for incrminating snippets against the sahaba (the highest rank believers and direct followers of the prophet saw himself). so the sahaba spent their lives and wealth fighting for and supporting the messenger of Allah swt and suddenly some kufis are the real muslims

horror story or what!

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dont flatter yourself,you are very much ignorant yourself

youve obviously outright rejected the obvious praise of the sahaba in the quran. even as an ignorant you should know the implications of that yourself

you trawl sunni hadiths looking for incrminating snippets against the sahaba (the highest rank believers and direct followers of the prophet saw himself). so the sahaba spent their lives and wealth fighting for and supporting the messenger of Allah swt and suddenly some kufis are the real muslims

horror story or what!

You are here for babbling or to learn and share your knowledge here? Let us come to the point again. I repeat my questions to you and other Sunnis.

"My "Rizq" is already mentioned in the "Book" (fate or Loh e Mehfoz) then what is the purpose of praying for "enhancement in my "rizq"? The time of my death is fixed and predestined then what is the use of praying Allah for enhancement in my life?.

I expect you will be to the point this time.

(bismillah)

Allah makes to pass away and establishes what He pleases, and with Him is the basis of the Book.. [surah Ra'ad Ayat No. 39]

This is the verse which lays the basis of "Ba'da". Our each and every faith is based on Quran and Sunnah of Prophet (pbuh) unlike Sunnis. Can any Sunni tell me what this verse means?

Edited by Aabiss_Shakari

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(salam)

This proves my point that most of the Sunnis who come here have no knowledge of Shia faith and just copy paste from other sites to attack Shias (They come with the view to preach here) but when they are confronted with questions and arguments they run from the place. Now as i started a serious questioning to solve the problem that What Bad'a is, they have lost their interest and have set in the depth of their ignorance.

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A Muslim would almost be in a state of total bewilderment and confusion at the audacity of these people towards Allah's Messenger sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam were it not for his knowledge that most of the Raafidites are Persians

Ar-Ra'd 38

Walaqad arsalna rusulan min qablika wajaAAalna lahum azwajan wathurriyyatan wama kana lirasoolin an yatiya biayatin illa biithni Allahi likulli ajalin kitabun

Ar-Ra'd 39

Yamhoo Allahu ma yashao wayuthbitu waAAindahu ommu alkitabi

this is all about the order of revelation

exactly how does this justify shi'a distortion? by distortion in this case i mean disregarding and making up false tafsir where ever you need to to. the high status of the sahaba has been left for us in the quran and never will the quran be abrograted.

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(salam)

A Muslim would almost be in a state of total bewilderment and confusion at the audacity of these people towards Allah's Messenger sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam were it not for his knowledge that most of the Raafidites are Persians

That is pretty racist and insulting. What do you have against Persians?

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Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

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thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality

Dude is too biased to realize that the Persian Zoroastrians and the Persian Gnostics were Monotheists. And these religions are considered people of the book

Edited by JimJam

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Dude is too biased to realize that the Persian Zoroastrians and the Persian Gnostics were Monotheists. And these religions are considered people of the book

ahem then why some shias on this very forum r sayin that Imam abu hanifa or imam shaifee were persians...they took this hand folding habit during salat from the same zorostrains and persian gnostics :!!!:

when sunnis points towards sth u took them as insults but when u guys say same things against sunnis its ok..wow I really appreciate this gesture..

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ahem then why some shias on this very forum r sayin that Imam abu hanifa or imam shaifee were persians...they took this hand folding habit during salat from the same zorostrains and persian gnostics :!!!:

when sunnis points towards sth u took them as insults but when u guys say same things against sunnis its ok..wow I really appreciate this gesture..

Both sides exaggerate

However dont try to deflect attention from your own mistake by highlighting the mistakes of others. This does not excuse you

Edited by JimJam

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Both sides exaggerate

However dont try to deflect attention from your own mistake by highlighting the mistakes of others. This does not excuse you

well said brother...but saying is not enough..do follow this statement ;)

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you know exactly who the reference of some persians refers to

one of these statements is TRUE

1. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

2. Nearly all close companions feigned islaam and used islaam as a cover for the destruction of islaam. the quraish were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

take your pick

Edited by kalim

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A Muslim would almost be in a state of total bewilderment and confusion at the audacity of these people towards Allah's Messenger sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam were it not for his knowledge that most of the Raafidites are Persians

Ar-Ra'd 38

Walaqad arsalna rusulan min qablika wajaAAalna lahum azwajan wathurriyyatan wama kana lirasoolin an yatiya biayatin illa biithni Allahi likulli ajalin kitabun

Ar-Ra'd 39

Yamhoo Allahu ma yashao wayuthbitu waAAindahu ommu alkitabi

this is all about the order of revelation

exactly how does this justify shi'a distortion? by distortion in this case i mean disregarding and making up false tafsir where ever you need to to. the high status of the sahaba has been left for us in the quran and never will the quran be abrograted.

Are you a kid? Just to remind you that you are posting in a thread tilted "Does Allah lie" and during the course of this thread the subject of "Ba'da" has arisen and you are wasting the time and energy of your and others by jumping into other topics (which have no worth) like "Who are Raafidhi" or "Sahaba" etc etc. Can you be relevant? I said the verse is basis of "Ba'da" but you started worshiping Sahaba.

you know exactly who the reference of some persians refers to

one of these statements is TRUE

1. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

2. Nearly all close companions feigned islaam and used islaam as a cover for the destruction of islaam. the quraish were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

take your pick

Please do not go offtopic.

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(salam)

Bukhari, Muslim, Nasa'i, Abu Dawood, Tirmidhi, and Ibn Majah were all Persians, so if we want to talk about Persians distorting Islam, we know where to look.

Do Sunnis know this fact? They rarely speak about Persian influence in their books.

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i Guess the Wahabi Media is still running Strong, so much so they gave Shi'ism two origins

1-Shi'ism made by persians as a cover up

2- Shi'ism was founded by a Yemeni Jew

Wonder if they gonna push themselves for a third fairytale

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Are you a kid? Just to remind you that you are posting in a thread tilted "Does Allah lie" and during the course of this thread the subject of "Ba'da" has arisen and you are wasting the time and energy of your and others by jumping into other topics (which have no worth) like "Who are Raafidhi" or "Sahaba" etc etc. Can you be relevant? I said the verse is basis of "Ba'da" but you started worshiping Sahaba.

Please do not go offtopic.

the subject of ba'da is your input, and youve not detailed the shia view of it. you asked what it meant to me, and ive told you 13-38/39 are regarding the order of revelation.

And indeed We sent Messengers before you (O Muhammad Õáì Çááå Úáíå æ Óáã) and made for them wives and offspring. And it was not for a Messenger to bring a sign except by Allah's Leave. (For) every matter there is a Decree (from Allah).

Allah blots out what He wills and confirms (what He wills). And with Him is the Mother of the Book (Al-Lauh Al-Mahfuz)13-38/39

Yamhoo Allahu ma yashao wayuthbitu waAAindahu ommu alkitabi 13/39

make your point about ba'da. this is your chosen ayat and your chosen sub-subject

im also trying to discern if misreading (intentionally or otherwise) the quran amounts to indirectly attributing the titled accusation. the kazzab group is more likely to commit major acts of abomination such as the thread title

for that purpose we can look into the two statements to see who are the liars. its important we recognise batil

one of these statements is TRUE

1. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

2. Nearly all close companions feigned islaam and used islaam as a cover for the destruction of islaam. the quraish were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

which one is true?

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im also trying to discern if misreading (intentionally or otherwise) the quran amounts to indirectly attributing the titled accusation. the kazzab group is more likely to commit major acts of abomination such as the thread title

for that purpose we can look into the two statements to see who are the liars. its important we recognise batil

one of these statements is TRUE

fallacy of the excluded middle.

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1. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

There you go with the pagan thing. There is a limit to stubborness. The persians were monothiests in all cases.

Shia Islam was mainly an Arab phenomenon in it's earliest stages. The Imam are the sources of Shia Doctirne,almost all Shia doctrine comes from them.

The gnostic-influenced glulat are well known to Shia who know they are deviants, like abul khattab and were in many cases denounced by the Imams themselvas. As for telling lies about the prophet's (pbuh) life, thats just your delusion about us. Shiism has a more realistic view of Islamic history. We call a spade a spade.

2. Nearly all close companions feigned islaam and used islaam as a cover for the destruction of islaam. the quraish were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

The problem is demographics. The early muslim community was a few tens of thousands, after the fatah makah there were hundred of thousand. Many who converted only to preserve their status. These were the same people who made up the pagan armies that waged war on the prophet (pbuh). The Ummayad as the top dogs of the old Pagan status quo showed its true colors during Ali's (as) Khalifate. Plus not all sahaba were sincere men, and some were sincere but overzealous and thus more trouble than good. There were many good sahaba but to think all were perfect and good is unrealistic and disproved by history.

fallacy of the excluded middle.

Indeed

Edited by JimJam

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1. Some Persians feigned Islaam and used Shi'ism as a cover for the destruction of Islaam. There were also among the Persians those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

2. Nearly all close companions feigned islaam and used islaam as a cover for the destruction of islaam. the quraish were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam"

which one is true?

The correct answer is 1 with a minor but extremely important modification.

1. Some Arabs (Pagans) feigned Islam and used Sunnism as a cover for the destruction of Islam. There were also among the Arabs those who were unable to free themselves from the effects of their former religions and thus they entered Islaam with a pagan mentality which did not mind telling lies about the Prophet sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam". Infact these Pagans were teh first to institute recording of Sirat un Nabi and Islamic History. These Pagans were commonly known as Ummayads and were on record to be the staunchest of the enemies of the Prophet (pbuh) and his tribe.

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(salam)

Do Sunnis know this fact? They rarely speak about Persian influence in their books.

I don't know to be honest, but I doubt it's common knowledge among Sunnis, or they wouldn't keep talking about the Persian influence on Shi'ism. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

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