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Turkey To 'triple' Trade Volume With Iran

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Turkey to 'triple' trade volume with Iran

Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan says the country plans to triple its trade volume with Iran within five years, stressing the importance of ties with Iran.

"Our bilateral trade ties have reached $10 billion ... when we complete our preferential trade agreement we can reach a bilateral trade volume of $30 billion in five years," Reuters quoted Erdogan as saying on Thursday.

"Why can't we establish a mechanism of unrestricted trade with Iran similar to the one we have with Europe? I personally don't see any reason why we should not be able to accomplish this," he said in the Iran-Turkey Business Forum, Anatolia News Agency reported.

"Just as we are Iran's gate into Europe, Iran is our most important gate into Asia," Erdogan said, adding that economic cooperation between the two countries could be further expanded, IRNA reported.

The Turkish prime minister said the "geographic proximity" offers the two countries unique opportunities to improve their "commercial and economic ties."

Earlier Thursday, Iranian First Vice President Mohammad-Reza Rahimi, who also attended the forum, stressed the importance of expanding ties between the two countries' private sectors.

"We intend to promote economic cooperation with Turkey, Syria, Iraq and other countries in the region," he said.

PressTv

Edited by someone50

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Cool, let the new world order (the real one) begin ... meanwhile, in the US (the old decaying world order) the number of people in poverty is the highest ever --- 14.3% and that's being seriously conservative 'cause the rate is determined using a seriously outdated formula! Maybe Turkey, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other such countries could also consider developing an aid program for "western" third world nations such as the US? Not directly with the state, maybe with NGOs ?

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Cool, let the new world order (the real one) begin ... meanwhile, in the US (the old decaying world order) the number of people in poverty is the highest ever --- 14.3% and that's being seriously conservative 'cause the rate is determined using a seriously outdated formula! Maybe Turkey, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other such countries could also consider developing an aid program for "western" third world nations such as the US? Not directly with the state, maybe with NGOs ?

why do you always got to put it in Us vs. Them terms?  these orders you speak of can coexist.

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^

oh i'm not putting in us vs. them at all, in fact, I'm suggesting that Iran could provide aid to the "western" third world nations, such as the US. But b/4 doing so, Iran and other nations do need to make it conditional I think, including disarmament of the US. I would agree that, if the US agrees to a verifiable disarmament in exchange for aid, then other nations should also follow suit. Those countries that refuse to disarm, they should be placed under close UN supervision. The thing is the US needs the IRI and other nations far more, and if it (the US) refuses to join the civilized world, it will be to its own serious detriment, as internal conditions worsen, and people start to seriously turn on each other.

Edited by skylight1

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disarmament has only limited effect.  disarm too much and predators will be able to have their way.  i wouldn't want a guy like saddam hussein 'policing' the world.   disarmament even sounds a bit unIslamic, as we are supposed to be able to defend ourselves.  a strong, defensive army is a better deterrent than is a weak nation with no weapons.

i do not share the belief that the West and/or the US is in decline.  that is more wishful thinking on the part of some than it is anything else.  it is better to fix your own societies than it is to wait for our downfall.

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Cool, let the new world order (the real one) begin ... meanwhile, in the US (the old decaying world order) the number of people in poverty is the highest ever --- 14.3% and that's being seriously conservative 'cause the rate is determined using a seriously outdated formula! Maybe Turkey, Iran, Syria, Venezuela and other such countries could also consider developing an aid program for "western" third world nations such as the US? Not directly with the state, maybe with NGOs ?

The US government considers an annual income of $21,756 to be the poverty line for a family of four. Nearly a $2000 a month salary. Bit ironic saying Iran could help, when the head of Iran's Department of Statistics announced that 10 million Iranians live under the "Absolute Poverty Line" and 30 million live under the "Relative Poverty Line". The government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad plans to start in September the phasing out of up to $20 billion in state subsidies for staples such as food and fuel. Who will that hit most?. The rich or the poor?. Maybe he is cutting that $20bn so he can send it to the US? :!!!:

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i do not share the belief that the West and/or the US is in decline.  that is more wishful thinking on the part of some than it is anything else.  it is better to fix your own societies than it is to wait for our downfall.

No point in talking with u then, since you seem to think guys like Obama-Bush-Zionist creeps are OK to "police" the world. However, it is possible to keep some arms available so long as they are under strict UN security. Oh the US / "west" is not just in decline, they've already declined, its a matter of them getting their societies straight (with some aid from relatively stable societies) or you are gonna see people turn on each other like never before. All these nuts propping up, thats just the beginning. Question is if the US/"west" will wake up, or will they go down in their own flames.

The US government considers an annual income of $21,756 to be the poverty line for a family of four. Nearly a $2000 a month salary. Bit ironic saying Iran could help, when the head of Iran's Department of Statistics announced that 10 million Iranians live under the "Absolute Poverty Line" and 30 million live under the "Relative Poverty Line". The government of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad plans to start in September the phasing out of up to $20 billion in state subsidies for staples such as food and fuel. Who will that hit most?. The rich or the poor?. Maybe he is cutting that $20bn so he can send it to the US? :!!!:

Yes, of-course Iran has not perfected its economic system, it has problems - one of which are the subsidies that end up subsidising the well off - that has to be fixed. But sure, Iran and other nations together could provide aid to the US, if it could lead to a more peaceful world, the condition being that the US agrees to disarms. See, the US obviously cannot continue its predatory behaviors forever, it costs $$$ - and unlike in prior wars, these wars are not leading to a war-boom economy, in fact quite the opposite. Iran could agree to give a portion of its peace dividend as aid to the US (the aid would have to also be monitored of-course).

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i wouldn't want a guy like saddam hussein 'policing' the world.  

Neither would I. When did Saddam make such a claim? Tinpot Arab dictators can only police their own societies with limited success, they can't handle the world.

You are okay with the US policing the world? Locking up child prisoners for war crimes and then threatening to sodomize them? Yes, that's exactly the type of policing we need.

The US will succeed in the War on Terror just like it succeeded in the War on Drugs. And I'll smoke a blunt to that. :!!!:

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^

agreed (except for the smoking, and "atheist" part)

the smoking was a joke. I wanted to illustrate that illegal drugs are quite easily accessible despite the billions of tax dollars wasted on the war on drugs, building expensive private prisons, and locking up minorities on the flimsiest of drug charges.

Terrorism will always exist, despite a "war" against it.

Edited by Zay

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I think terrorism - including state terrorism such as those executed by the US/Zionist entity - may always exist, but they can be minimized. Now, of-course, if u have criminals pretending to fight other criminals to create a smokescreen for their own crimes, well thats not gonna lead to any solution, thats for sure.

check this:

http://mrzine.monthlyreview.org/2010/fremstad160910.html

The Census figures show that in 2009 one out of every three Americans had incomes that fell below the amount (roughly $45,000 for a family of four) that most Americans and various budget estimates show is needed to "make ends meet" at a basic level. Also, of particular note, the report shows substantial increases in the poverty rate and the rate of people without health insurance, as well as declines in median income for various demographic groups.

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Yes, of-course Iran has not perfected its economic system, it has problems - one of which are the subsidies that end up subsidising the well off - that has to be fixed. But sure, Iran and other nations together could provide aid to the US, if it could lead to a more peaceful world, the condition being that the US agrees to disarms. See, the US obviously cannot continue its predatory behaviors forever, it costs $$$ - and unlike in prior wars, these wars are not leading to a war-boom economy, in fact quite the opposite. Iran could agree to give a portion of its peace dividend as aid to the US (the aid would have to also be monitored of-course).

Only the well off?. Anyhow, the US raised about $2.5 trillion in tax and other revenue last year, and needed about an extra $1 trillion borrowed to meet its yearly bugget of $3.5 trillion. Irans total budget spend is a little over $300 billion, after raising some money using bonds. Yeah, Iran obviously has trillions of dollars to give as aid to the US?. And you would expect the US to get rid of its weapons for a tiny bit of cash from Iran, when the Saudi's have just thrown $60bn at the US? :!!!:

Maybe if Roman Abramovich is ever a bit for cash, and cant afford the very latest helicopter to bring him to his billion dollar yacht Eclipse, I could tell him I could throw him a few quid on condition he got rid of his Chelsea team, so my supported team would have a better chance of winning the PL :!!!:

Edited by Irishman

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Zionist Mafia on its way to ruin Iran-Turkey relations!!!

The Iranian Embassy in Ankara has rejected a report by a British daily that Tehran agreed to donate money to Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).

"The Telegraph, which is affiliated with certain circles, is known to have a record in releasing such fabricated reports and has no objective but to damage the friendly relations between Iran and Turkey," the embassy said in a statement released on Wednesday.

"By publishing such a report, the daily sought to spoil the joy of the Turkish people's recent success," the statement added, referring to the constitutional amendments approved in a referendum on Sunday.

Iran and Turkey enjoy historical, cultural and religious bonds and such accusations cannot have the slightest impact on two countries' relations, the statement concluded.

The London-based Telegraph said in a report released on Tuesday that Turkey had negotiated a deal with Iran, under which Tehran would make a substantial contribution to the campaign funds of Turkey's AKP.

The report claimed that Iran had agreed to transfer USD 12 million to the AKP, with further payments of up to USD 25 million to be made later in the year to support Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in next year's general election.

Omer Celik deputy chairman of the AKP rejected the report and demanded that the paper issue an apology. "Should they not, we reserve the right to turn to international courts," he said.

Turkish voters in a referendum supported Erdogan's proposed amendments to the constitution introduced after the 1980 military coup.

Erdogan has called the changes a victory for democracy and a "step in the right direction" towards European Union membership.

The opposition, however, has campaigned against the amendments, accusing the ruling AK party of plotting to undo the secular principles of the country.

Presstv

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Only the well off?. Anyhow, the US raised about $2.5 trillion in tax and other revenue last year, and needed about an extra $1 trillion borrowed to meet its yearly bugget of $3.5 trillion. Irans total budget spend is a little over $300 billion, after raising some money using bonds. Yeah, Iran obviously has trillions of dollars to give as aid to the US?. And you would expect the US to get rid of its weapons for a tiny bit of cash from Iran, when the Saudi's have just thrown $60bn at the US? :!!!:

Maybe if Roman Abramovich is ever a bit for cash, and cant afford the very latest helicopter to bring him to his billion dollar yacht Eclipse, I could tell him I could throw him a few quid on condition he got rid of his Chelsea team, so my supported team would have a better chance of winning the PL :!!!:

"Saudi" money is not going to last that long, nor is Chinese money, both are dependent on US consumers' spending and being addicted to shopping. With changes in US consumers perception about the economy, they are not spending much - so that recycled money is going to all dry up very quickly, as poverty takes its grips, and large sections of the US become desolate and detroitified. Iran, and other independent nations have their own internal economic structures that are not as susceptible to the third worldization of the US. As such, over the mid-term (and even short term) Iran and other independent nations can develop an effective bail out plan for the US - with the condition, of-course that the US disarms. And I'm not saying that only the US disarms, but it could be part of a general worldwide disarmament. Given that the US's main product at this time (aside from porn) are weapons, of-couse US will suffer a bit, but with some help from IRI and other like minded nations, it could come out pretty well.

Edited by skylight1

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No point in talking with u then, since you seem to think guys like Obama-Bush-Zionist creeps are OK to "police" the world. However, it is possible to keep some arms available so long as they are under strict UN security.  Oh the US / "west" is not just in decline, they've already declined, its a matter of them getting their societies straight (with some aid from relatively stable societies) or you are gonna see people turn on each other like never before. All these nuts propping up, thats just the beginning. Question is if the US/"west" will wake up, or will they go down in their own flames.

The point i was trying to make was that disarmament is a ridiculous suggestion, a suggestion that would lead to more war not less war.  History is littered with insane charismatic men with imperial aspirations who will stop at nothing to attain those aspirations.  I don't care if we look at the US, Europe, China, Iran, Turkey, or Japan, there is no shortage of examples we could use to demonstrate the imperialistic tendencies of the human race.  Too many of you act as if the US or the West or Europe are the first human populations to engage in imperialism, when in fact we can look straight into the Muslim history and find the exact same imperialistic tendencies.  Does that justify imperialism? No, but it does help to bring the US Government's behavior back down to a rational discourse.  Enough already with the Great Satan [Edited Out], it is nothing but hypocrisy, just as it is hypocrisy to create the Axis of Evil nonsense.

If it is not the US on top and calling the shots, it will be some other power.  That is just human nature.  If you disarm one group of nations you make room for another nation or group of nations to step in and fill that void.  There is no guarantee this new group will be any better than the US, and I do not think it is a stretch to say it will likely be worse.  

The difference now is that we have a global communications and education infrastructure that allows for people other than the powered elite to see and understand the brutal and bloody reality of the dark side of imperialism.  In free societies where individuals are allowed to peaceably assemble, groups form with the intention of exposing hidden agendas and advocating for peace.  It is my understanding that had the global outrage over the Iraq war not been as great as it was, the Bush administration would have been much more likely to invade Iran.  As it is we have not yet seen this war, a victory wholly attributable to modernity giving Power to the People. 

The solution to American imperialism in the Middle East is neither to confront the US directly nor is the solution to hold on to some naive fantasy of disarming the US military.  It ain't gonna happen, so why waste your energy on pursuing this avenue?  Doing so will only cause more war.  The solution is for Middle Eastern nations to grow and reform their societies from within.  

Quit blaming the West already for your weakness.  The West may indeed be directly responsible for your weakness, but whining about it will get you no where except making yourselves look bad.  Strengthen your societies and focus your militaries on defense and you will see the opportunists move on to weaker prey.  

Peace through strength.  

Coming back to my point, it is not so much that I think the US should be the global police, only that there needs to be some sort of global power structure in order to effect and maintain peace.  My personal hope is that as we move into the future and the developing nations become developed, we will start to see more and more regional hegemonies that are able to replace the current need for the US to maintain order.  I think eventually the order keepers in the Middle East will be Egypt, Turkey and Iran.  They will then provide protection for the smaller nations in the region.  Again, accomplishing this has nothing to do with directly confronting the United States and has a lot to do with internal reform.    

Yes, of-course Iran has not perfected its economic system, it has problems - one of which are the subsidies that end up subsidising the well off - that has to be fixed.  But sure, Iran and other nations together could provide aid to the US, if it could lead to a more peaceful world, the condition being that the US agrees to disarms. See, the US obviously cannot continue its predatory behaviors forever, it costs $ - and unlike in prior wars, these wars are not leading to a war-boom economy, in fact quite the opposite. Iran could agree to give a portion of its peace dividend as aid to the US (the aid would have to also be monitored of-course).

What you seem to be lacking is an understanding of the dynamic nature of American society.  When statistics are published that quantify an increase in the number of Americans living in poverty usually that motivates us to reflect on that to try and figure out what is the cause of that increase.  Policies are then enacted to attempt to address the problem.  Definitely we (Americans) are not perfect, but the dynamic nature of American society allows for continual improvement.

This talk of 'aid' to the US as well as fantasies of American decline may make you feel good, but in actuality have no basis in reality.  Why you continue to get lost in such absurdities is beyond me, such a waste of energy.  The fact that you would wish for that sort of chaos to happen is actually kind of sinister and unbecoming of a Shia.  As shias, we should hope for all of humanity, regardless of nationality, to have the sort of opportunities that the majority of Americans enjoy.  

To fight evil with evil is evil.  To fight evil with good is good.   

Neither would I. When did Saddam make such a claim? Tinpot Arab dictators can only police their own societies with limited success, they can't handle the world.

You are okay with the US policing the world? Locking up child prisoners for war crimes and then threatening to sodomize them? Yes, that's exactly the type of policing we need.

The US will succeed in the War on Terror just like it succeeded in the War on Drugs. And I'll smoke a blunt to that. w00t.gif

I am okay with the US being a 'placeholder' until the other nations of the world get their act together.  Whatever crimes the US has committed have been committed in Evin Prison, Tehran, IRI, so I do not know what good it does to focus on American crimes when all of it is wrong and happens all over the globe.  God willing the people of the world can eventually put an end to such savageries.

From here:   

In August 2009, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad commented in a live broadcast on the state radio on rape and torture in the Iranian prisons and said; "In some detention centers inappropriate measures have taken place for which the enemy was again responsible." [are you kidding me!  the enemy was responsible for official Iranian rape?  pathetic.]

Following the election, Iranian presidential candidate Mehdi Karroubi said that several male and female protesters held behind bars have been savagely raped, according to a confidential letter to powerful cleric Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani.[30] Karroubi warned that this was only a "fragment" of the evidence he had and that if the denials did not stop, he would release even more.[31][32]

Roxana Saberi, who spent 4 months in Evin in 2003, accused of espionage and threatening Iran's national security. She had been living in Iran for six years, working as a journalist and writing a book about modern Iran based on interviews with a broad cross-section of society, when she was detained. She later described her ordeal in a book, titled 'Between Two Worlds: My Life and Captivity in Iran' (2010).[33]

It is said, that rape has been used by interrogators in Iran for decades.[34] During the 1980s, the rape of female political prisoners was prevalent. It was so prevalent that it prompted Hussein-Ali Montazeri, who was Ayatollah Khomeini's deputy at the time, to write the following to Khomeini in a letter dated October 7, 1986: "Did you know that young women are raped in some of the prisons of the Islamic Republic?"[35]

Two prominent members of Iran's human rights community, the feminist lawyer and journalist Shadi Sadr and the blogger and activist Mojtaba Saminejad, published essays online from inside Iran arguing that far from being a new phenomenon, prison rape has a long history in the Islamic Republic.[36]

Zionist Mafia on its way to ruin Iran-Turkey relations!!!

The Iranian Embassy in Ankara has rejected a report by a British daily that Tehran agreed to donate money to Turkey's ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP).

"The Telegraph, which is affiliated with certain circles, is known to have a record in releasing such fabricated reports and has no objective but to damage the friendly relations between Iran and Turkey," the embassy said in a statement released on Wednesday.

I might be more inclined to give credit to this story were it not published by PressTv.  So often the Iranian government speaks of the enemy puppeteer who controls the globe.  The primary reason for this is obviously to take domestic attention away from the Islamic Republic's deeply failed policies.   

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[

quote name='Photi' date='17 September 2010 - 06:25 PM' timestamp='1284762307' post='2098961]

What you seem to be lacking is an understanding of the dynamic nature of American society. When statistics are published that quantify an increase in the number of Americans living in poverty usually that motivates us to reflect on that to try and figure out what is the cause of that increase. Policies are then enacted to attempt to address the problem. Definitely we (Americans) are not perfect, but the dynamic nature of American society allows for continual improvement.

This talk of 'aid' to the US as well as fantasies of American decline may make you feel good, but in actuality have no basis in reality. Why you continue to get lost in such absurdities is beyond me, such a waste of energy. The fact that you would wish for that sort of chaos to happen is actually kind of sinister and unbecoming of a Shia. As shias, we should hope for all of humanity, regardless of nationality, to have the sort of opportunities that the majority of Americans enjoy.

To fight evil with evil is evil. To fight evil with good is good.

I understand the United States quite well, enough to see what many commentators (that u might glibly dismiss) have already noted, that the third worldization of the US is not just "wishful thinking" it is already a fact. Devastated communities that once used to only dot the country, have now become entire regions. But where do you suppose I'm suggesting a wish for chaos? I'm suggesting that IRI and other independent nations come to the aid of the US to rescue it from chaos, because the US can no longer do it on its own - the loonies who think that the US is better than the entire planet are going to turn themselves on American society, and destroy it from within.

In fact it is *you* who by ignoring reality as it has already unfolded who is wishing massive chaos on the US. If you keep thinking of the US as more "advanced" than other nations, and don't need IRI and other independent nations' aid, then you are in for some trouble. Shias should not be so haughty that they refuse possible aid from fellow Shias in Iran, and allow the country of their residence to go down in chaotic flames. All that I am suggesting that, in return for stabilizing the US, there be verifiable disarmament on a worldwide scale. With the US main production being arms and wars, of-course the US will have to go someways to comply with such a possible disarmament. The lunatics such as Bush-Obama warmongers, who may refuse to disarm can be closely monitored by a world body. None of this impossible, and really the only hope for the people of the US, so that in fact America can enjoy a stable family oriented society. And not the porn filled immoral violent poverty stricken society that it has become.

Edited by skylight1

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[

I understand the United States quite well, enough to see what many commentators (that u might glibly dismiss) have already noted, that the third worldization of the US is not just "wishful thinking" it is already a fact. Devastated communities that once used to only dot the country, have now become entire regions. But where do you suppose I'm suggesting a wish for chaos? I'm suggesting that IRI and other independent nations come to the aid of the US to rescue it from chaos, because the US can no longer do it on its own - the loonies who think that the US is better than the entire planet are going to turn themselves on American society, and destroy it from within.  

In fact it is *you* who by ignoring reality as it has already unfolded who is wishing massive chaos on the US.  If you keep thinking of the US as more "advanced" than other nations, and don't need IRI and other independent nations' aid, then you are in for some trouble. Shias should not be so haughty that they refuse possible aid from fellow Shias in Iran, and allow the country of their residence to go down in chaotic flames.  All that I am suggesting that, in return for stabilizing the US, there be verifiable disarmament on a worldwide scale. With the US main production being arms and wars, of-course the US will have to go someways to comply with such a possible disarmament. The lunatics such as Bush-Obama warmongers, who may refuse to disarm can be closely monitored by a world body.  None of this impossible, and really the only hope for the people of the US, so that in fact America can enjoy a stable family oriented society. And not the porn filled immoral violent poverty stricken society that it has become.

I guess we simply disagree on the state of American society.  Compared to the 1960s, things are calm here.  Are there problems?  Of course there are, but if domestic American history has anything to say about it, we have overcome much worse.  

As far as aid goes, if reality dictates such a need, then yes, it would be foolish not to take it.  However, my personal opinion is that tragedies such as what happened in New Orleans a few years ago helps to expose such 'third worldization' of american cities and causes people to get involved to try and look for solutions.  

Becoming aware of our shortcomings is half the problem, the other half is having an educated population concerned enough to advocate and produce change for the better.  A free society that is governed by the Rule of Law will facilitate these reform minded people, whereas in police states and other forms of arbitrary rule,  such reform and organization becomes much more problematic. 

As far as the IRI's international role in improving the human condition is concerned, I have no doubt that eventually Iran will play a significant and peaceful role.  In order to become that, however, Iran must first solve a few of its more fundamental internal problems.  The reality is that more than a few nations perceive Iran to be a pariah state, so until Iranians fix that perception they will remain internationally marginalized.   

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There is hardly calm in the US - it is plain unwilling for relatively intelligent people to see the situation. IRI's perception is a problem that the US has to deal with, Iran has already earned respect amongst vast numbers of people all over the world - from Latin America to the mid-east to east Asia. Those who view Iran as a "pariah state" such as the US regime, and the Zionist entity, well given the state these societies are in now, their views hardly matters. I should note that Venezuela established a small program to help low income people of the north east coast to provide them with low cost heating (I don't think the program is still in place at this time.) Similar, smaller scale programs to begin with, maybe trust building measures, could also be established by Iran to help out lower income people of the US. Now, some will say that Iran needs to help its neighbors first, and that the US is a "first world" country etc.etc. I of-course, disagree with that notion, because I consider the US to be rapidly third worldizing - and there are huge regions of the country that are now clearly third world. Check out California, there are regions that have over 30% unemployment rate - the numbers for other counties are all mostly in double digits, and be aware these are official numbers, and don't reflect those who have just given up looking for a job, and living off a family member, or sleeping in their cars. This is a horrendous situation, and it is high time people came to terms with it, and began ask for help sooner than later, before things end up going beyond the point of no return.

Edited by skylight1

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I am okay with the US being a 'placeholder' until the other nations of the world get their act together.  Whatever crimes the US has committed have been committed in Evin Prison, Tehran, IRI, so I do not know what good it does to focus on American crimes when all of it is wrong and happens all over the globe.  God willing the people of the world can eventually put an end to such savageries.

Interesting post. Now a few questions. What do mean by "other nations of the world getting their act together"? How are they not getting their act together and how should they go about doing so? Why is America required for this? I am deeply curious at your thought process because I do find it interesting.

You are right about crimes committed by Iran, but that happens in Iran. Iran is not murdering, raping and kidnapping people outside its borders like the US and Israel is. Its not going into Afghanistan, capturing a 15 year old boy, and then putting a show trial for him.

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Interesting post. Now a few questions. What do mean by "other nations of the world getting their act together"? How are they not getting their act together and how should they go about doing so? Why is America required for this? I am deeply curious at your thought process because I do find it interesting.

I suppose 'getting their act together' would vary in meaning depending on which country is being discussed.  Even so, i think there are some general themes that failing or failed states more or less have in common which contribute to their overall lack of strength (mind you that i know more about middle eastern nations than i do nation states from africa, central asia, the subcontinent, etc.)  :

  • Arbitrary Rule
  • Lack of universal education
  • Dismal human rights record
  • Suppression of civil society institutions; this leads to overly centralized/despotic governments and an apathetic population whose desire to improve their societies has been suppressed because said governments are fearful of the people power that results from such non-governmental organization.
  •  Ruling class disdain for social mobility.  lack of economic development amplifies this disdain.  even when the peasants become educated, there are not enough opportunities so they either remain poor and jobless, or they emigrate to another country (ie, brain drain)
  • Inability to separate religious identity from the national identity.  this leads to intolerance and discrimination based on religious or sect chauvinism.  
  • Ruling elite working for the interest of their Swiss bank accounts instead of the national interest
  • especially in the Arab countries women are treated as second class citizens. 'Gender apartheid' i think the liberals call it. 

I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.  the factors above create a weak, shallow society vulnerable to treason as well as cultural, social, and political sabotage.  'Getting their act together' would involve addressing some of these fundamental problems.  

The US can surely be implicated for either directly causing such failures or indirectly encouraging (or at least not discouraging) them.  So of course that begs the question as to why I am comfortable with the US being a 'placeholder.'  Simply stated, i am more afraid of power vacuums than i am of corrupt officials.  If the US were to cease its policing behaviors tomorrow I think we would eventually see revolutions or civil wars happening all over the place.  The way to scale back US presence then involves the development of these various societies (by addressing the factors above) so that those societies are strong enough to stand on their own.  I know people like to say that Muslims are incapable of anything else than what we see today, but that ignores the fact that Western Europe experienced many of these same problems in their own transition to modernity.

You are right about crimes committed by Iran, but that happens in Iran. Iran is not murdering, raping and kidnapping people outside its borders like the US and Israel is. Its not going into Afghanistan, capturing a 15 year old boy, and then putting a show trial for him.

I will not sit here and try to defend the crimes of nations including the US.  Transparency is key to putting an end to these crimes whether those crimes are committed domestically or internationally. 

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Photi,

Thanks for your response. It does clear it up for me. The US should scale back, but it needs to be done in a gradual manner, so as to not create a vacuum as you stated. You are right, a sudden cessation of US "policing", aiding, spying, occupying would create a huge instability.

The US should also scale back and focus on its own internal problems. You seem optimistic of America's internal future, I am not too much. I do not want my tax dollars to go to any more worldwide policing.

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^

oh i'm not putting in us vs. them at all, in fact, I'm suggesting that Iran could provide aid to the "western" third world nations, such as the US. But b/4 doing so, Iran and other nations do need to make it conditional I think, including disarmament of the US. I would agree that, if the US agrees to a verifiable disarmament in exchange for aid, then other nations should also follow suit. Those countries that refuse to disarm, they should be placed under close UN supervision. The thing is the US needs the IRI and other nations far more, and if it (the US) refuses to join the civilized world, it will be to its own serious detriment, as internal conditions worsen, and people start to seriously turn on each other.

(salam)

dreams are wonderful

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Interesting post. Now a few questions. What do mean by "other nations of the world getting their act together"? How are they not getting their act together and how should they go about doing so? Why is America required for this? I am deeply curious at your thought process because I do find it interesting.

You are right about crimes committed by Iran, but that happens in Iran. Iran is not murdering, raping and kidnapping people outside its borders like the US and Israel is. Its not going into Afghanistan, capturing a 15 year old boy, and then putting a show trial for him.

Iran is only raping, murdering, and kidnapping within its own borders. You talk about show trials, how do you explain the ridiculous trials of election protestors for "waging war against God"? This is justice to you?

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Iran is only raping, murdering, and kidnapping within its own borders.

So is North Korea, Pakistan, the US and Israel. What's your problem with that?

You talk about show trials, how do you explain the ridiculous trials of election protestors for "waging war against God"? This is justice to you?

Oh my little retarded shabath goy. It's not my job to explain those show trials since I'm not part of the Iranian government.

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Iran is only raping, murdering, and kidnapping within its own borders. You talk about show trials, how do you explain the ridiculous trials of election protestors for "waging war against God"? This is justice to you?

Oh my little retarded shabath goy. It's not my job to explain those show trials since I'm not part of the Iranian government.

IgnorantCommander, Zay, and others why don't you discuss the topic? "Turkey To 'triple' Trade Volume With Iran, Positive Move in Iran-Turkey Relations"

First, America and other unrelated issues and now personal insults... creating a mess in every single topic in this forum... Forum Mods should install a spam-scanning software!

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IgnorantCommander, Zay, and others why don't you discuss the topic? "Turkey To 'triple' Trade Volume With Iran, Positive Move in Iran-Turkey Relations"

First, America and other unrelated issues and now personal insults... creating a mess in every single topic in this forum... Forum Mods should install a spam-scanning software!

someone50, I have been discussing the topic. I don't think America is an unrelated issue here since Turkey still has economic relations with America and has absolutely no relations with Iran. It also surrounds Iran on both sides and on the Gulf.

I also thought I was well within my rights to reply to SaladLoser.

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someone50, I have been discussing the topic. I don't think America is an unrelated issue here since Turkey still has economic relations with America and has absolutely no relations with Iran. It also surrounds Iran on both sides and on the Gulf.

I also thought I was well within my rights to reply to SaladLoser.

Yea why not, we can even discuss the Taliban, Chinese economy, atheism in Spain, US-Mexico borders issues, prison conditions in India, and many more under this topic!

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