Who Is Ahmad Al Hassan?

[Wilayat Eshq]

Can we look at his record as a student in Engineering University? What has he filled as his father's name, place and date of birth? Can we also look at his record in Hawza?

Well explained brother razimuhammad He got A "C" grade in his University studies plus An infallible Imam doenst go and learn from a fallible scholars then why did MR Ahmad al Katie went to najaf to Learn.

He was better off taxing

[Maula Dha Mallang]

this whole thread is a joke.

may this fool imposter suffer the same fate as mirza gulaam ahmed and die on the toilet. ameen.

messengers sent by Allah whether prophets, imams or awliya always come with signs. what is his sign? he has three dicatphone recordings where he makes all kinds of funkyass claims.

wow, lets all go and do bayya to him straight away, truly a man who can RECORD HIS VOICE comes with the miracles of Allah.

[Wilayat Eshq]

this whole thread is a joke.

may this fool imposter suffer the same fate as mirza gulaam ahmed and die on the toilet. ameen.

messengers sent by Allah whether prophets, imams or awliya always come with signs. what is his sign? he has three dicatphone recordings where he makes all kinds of funkyass claims.

wow, lets all go and do bayya to him straight away, truly a man who can RECORD HIS VOICE comes with the miracles of Allah.

Speaking of signs all of his followers are lacking knowledge basic islamic knowledge and HASHEMStudio editing from three movies Lord of the rings, Matrix and harry potter to publicize for mr dajjal ahamd al hassan may he die in toilet

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Speaking of signs all of his followers are lacking knowledge basic islamic knowledge and HASHEMStudio editing from three movies Lord of the rings, Matrix and harry potter to publicize for mr dajjal ahamd al hassan may he die in toilet

I used to be *obsessed* with conspiracy theories before i watched the arrivals, so the first time i saw it i could see how dodgy they were being, especially with the music videos and boohoo umar was killed boohoo nonsense at the end. ive been suspicious of them all along but like you said, the ignorant but well intentional followers of hashem films, and therefore the people who are being led to this dajjal, dont have a clue. hashem films use compelling music, plenty of pictures and talk about conspiracies that many people want to know more about.

may they all die in the toilet together along with all fake mahdis.

[Wilayat Eshq]

I used to be *obsessed* with conspiracy theories before i watched the arrivals, so the first time i saw it i could see how dodgy they were being, especially with the music videos and boohoo umar was killed boohoo nonsense at the end. ive been suspicious of them all along but like you said, the ignorant but well intentional followers of hashem films, and therefore the people who are being led to this dajjal, dont have a clue. hashem films use compelling music, plenty of pictures and talk about conspiracies that many people want to know more about.

may they all die in the toilet together along with all fake mahdis.

Read this bro From The BBC its a cult

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7196058.stm

[Maula Dha Mallang]

this is him?

[alisajjad1]

These People also believe that Imam Ali (a.s) is the creator of the universe and Ahmed Bin Ismail says that eating Swine Gelatine is Halal! and that the Quran isnt complete and Imam Mahdi (a.s) will come with the real quran :!!!:

This video is a must watch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FehpU4XISM&feature=feedu ;)

[Abu_zar]

Assalam O Alaikum brothers and sisters,

TWO SIMPLE CHALLENGES TO PROVE/DISPROVE MR. AHMAD AL HASSAN’S CLAIMS.

For every real messenger of Allah, there are dozens of fake people claiming to be one. History tells us that fake prophets and fake imams had big followings. Hence anyone thinking that one should accept a claim without adequate proof is simply on the wrong path. Those who think that since Quran condemns those who denied true messengers of God, we must accept every Tom, Richard and Harry who claim anything without any proof of highest order would misguide themselves and their people.

Seeing istakhara or praying and then sleeping hoping to find the authenticity of a claimer is NOT the path adopted by prophets or 12 imams. Actually these are the Christian messengers who try to reach the people by “Dream Technique”. Prophet and 12 imams accepted people’s right to test them and ask questions. We are all aware of Hazrat Ibrahim a.s and Hazrat Musa a.s arguments with Namrood and Fir’on, and on many other occasions. Our holy Prophet was tested by scholars of other faiths on many occasions. Once Jews asked him that how did Bani Israel reached Egypt so that at Hazrat Mosa’s time, they were there as a whole nation. In answer, whole Surah e Yusuf a.s was sent and those jews accepted Holy Prophet’s (saww) authenticity. Hazrat Ali a.s kept challenging with “Salooni” and answered questions on the basis of his divine knowledge. Other Imams were also asked scholarly questions to prove their ilm e ladunni (divine knowledge) and they answered on every single occasion.

Hence I refuse to accept Istakhara or Dream Technique as offered by the followers of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and would like to test him on the lines that our prophets and imams have shown. I actually believe that it is the right of a seeker of truth, and responsibility of a claimant to accept a challenge and answer scholarly questions to prove his authenticity, and I will put following simple, straightforward challenges.

CHALLENGE NUMBER 1: Since “Ansars” of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan claim that he is infallible and has divine knowledge, I would like to talk to him in a language that a person of his background is unlikely to understand and ask him questions based on a subject that he has not studied by a teacher on earth. If he would answer those questions properly, then it will be a big proof that he may be a genuine Yamani and a Mehdi. Now if I write the questions here, he can find the answers from many sources. However, I write 3 couplets and ask him or his Ansars to get me the full names of three poets who wrote these couplets:

First Couplet:

ãÍÈÊیŸ Ȫی Êæ ãáÊی ÀیŸ ÑÒÞ ˜ی ÕæÑÊ

ãÍÈÊæŸ ãیŸ Ȫی ÑÒÞö ÍáÇá Ïی˜ªÇ ˜Ñ

Second Couplet:

ÑیÊ À ᘪی ÊÍÑیÑیŸ Êæ áÀÑæŸ ãیŸ ˜ªæ ÌÇÊی ÀیŸ

ªÑ Ȫی ÇäÇ äÇã ᘪæ Êæ ÓÇʪ ãیŸ ãیÑÇ äÇã Ȫی ᘪäÇ

Third Couplet:

ã̪ÿ ˜Óی Ȫی äیäÿ ˜ی ÇÈ ÊáÇÔ äÀیŸ

˜À  یÇ ãÑی ÇäÔÊÑی ˜æ 滄 ÑÇÓ

Now please do write the names of poets who wrote these couplets if you are true in your claims. Please, Please, Please answer and help us find the truth.

CHALLENGE NUMBER 2: In websites, Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan has been presented as an “author”. On website (www.the-savior.com), we find his books. They are five in number, and their names and number of pages are as follows:

1. For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People. 12 A4 pages.
   
2. The Calf 5 A4 pages.
   
3. Enlightenments From the Calls of the Messengers 11 A4 pages.
   
4. Letter of Guidance 8 pages.
   
5. Executor and Messenger of Imam Al Mahdi In Torah, Bible and Quran 8 pages.
   

No author with self-respect will call such small articles as “books”. However, that is a smaller issue. The larger issue is that the author is claiming to be in league of authors of “Nahjul Balagha” and “Saheefa e Kaamla”. When I read Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan’s “books”, I was deeply disappointed with the standard. Leave the infallibles, if you compare the standards with those of our respected ulema such as Ayatollah Baqar us Sadr, Ayatollah Khomeini or similar scholars, you will find inadequacies in Mr. Hassan’s “books”.

But I may be wrong. So I suggest a simple test. Take the first book “For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People”. Its topic is comparison of political systems and it has attempted to reason. Take another book on similar topic. Let me suggest Fredrich Engel’s book “The origin of the families, private property and the states”. It was written in 1884 when knowledge on the subject was much limited. Now choose scholars/professors of philosophy and political science (I would suggest professors of Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, McGill, UCL, UCLA, Imperial or similar Universities to standardise the results. Any honest, unbiased person can read both and compare) and ask them to rate the two books by awarding numbers out of 100. The standard of a person claiming to be infallible will be immediately evident to you. I have read both books and expect the “For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People” to be awarded between 10-20 numbers, and “The origin of the families, private property and the states” to be awarded between 60-80 numbers.

Our prophets and imams (salam-ullah alaih) never shied away from scholarly challenges. Someone claiming to be Yamani, son of 12^th imam a.s and 1^st Mehdi should not do either. I would request Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and his Ansars to please respond to these challenges and then we can move forwards. If they cannot, then I am afraid, I will have no choice but to regard Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan’s claims to be fake and his believers to be deviated from the path of 12 imams.

May Allah be kind to us and help us find the truth.

Wassalam.

[Ahmad 313]

Assalam O Alaikum brothers and sisters,

TWO SIMPLE CHALLENGES TO PROVE/DISPROVE MR. AHMAD AL HASSAN’S CLAIMS.

For every real messenger of Allah, there are dozens of fake people claiming to be one. History tells us that fake prophets and fake imams had big followings. Hence anyone thinking that one should accept a claim without adequate proof is simply on the wrong path. Those who think that since Quran condemns those who denied true messengers of God, we must accept every Tom, Richard and Harry who claim anything without any proof of highest order would misguide themselves and their people.

Seeing istakhara or praying and then sleeping hoping to find the authenticity of a claimer is NOT the path adopted by prophets or 12 imams. Actually these are the Christian messengers who try to reach the people by “Dream Technique”. Prophet and 12 imams accepted people’s right to test them and ask questions. We are all aware of Hazrat Ibrahim a.s and Hazrat Musa a.s arguments with Namrood and Fir’on, and on many other occasions. Our holy Prophet was tested by scholars of other faiths on many occasions. Once Jews asked him that how did Bani Israel reached Egypt so that at Hazrat Mosa’s time, they were there as a whole nation. In answer, whole Surah e Yusuf a.s was sent and those jews accepted Holy Prophet’s (saww) authenticity. Hazrat Ali a.s kept challenging with “Salooni” and answered questions on the basis of his divine knowledge. Other Imams were also asked scholarly questions to prove their ilm e ladunni (divine knowledge) and they answered on every single occasion.

Hence I refuse to accept Istakhara or Dream Technique as offered by the followers of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and would like to test him on the lines that our prophets and imams have shown. I actually believe that it is the right of a seeker of truth, and responsibility of a claimant to accept a challenge and answer scholarly questions to prove his authenticity, and I will put following simple, straightforward challenges.

CHALLENGE NUMBER 1: Since “Ansars” of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan claim that he is infallible and has divine knowledge, I would like to talk to him in a language that a person of his background is unlikely to understand and ask him questions based on a subject that he has not studied by a teacher on earth. If he would answer those questions properly, then it will be a big proof that he may be a genuine Yamani and a Mehdi. Now if I write the questions here, he can find the answers from many sources. However, I write 3 couplets and ask him or his Ansars to get me the full names of three poets who wrote these couplets:

First Couplet:

محبتیں بھی تو ملتی ہیں رزق کی صورت

محبتوں میں بھی رزقِ حلال دیکھا کر

Second Couplet:

ریت پہ لکھی تحریریں تو لہروں میں کھو جاتی ہیں

پھر بھی اپنا نام لکھو تو ساتھ میں میرا نام بھی لکھنا

Third Couplet:

مجھے کسی بھی نگینے کی اب تلاش نہیں

کہ آ گیا مری انگشتری کو پتھر راس

Now please do write the names of poets who wrote these couplets if you are true in your claims. Please, Please, Please answer and help us find the truth.

CHALLENGE NUMBER 2: In websites, Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan has been presented as an “author”. On website (www.the-savior.com), we find his books. They are five in number, and their names and number of pages are as follows:

1. For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People. 12 A4 pages.
   
2. The Calf 5 A4 pages.
   
3. Enlightenments From the Calls of the Messengers 11 A4 pages.
   
4. Letter of Guidance 8 pages.
   
5. Executor and Messenger of Imam Al Mahdi In Torah, Bible and Quran 8 pages.
   

No author with self-respect will call such small articles as “books”. However, that is a smaller issue. The larger issue is that the author is claiming to be in league of authors of “Nahjul Balagha” and “Saheefa e Kaamla”. When I read Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan’s “books”, I was deeply disappointed with the standard. Leave the infallibles, if you compare the standards with those of our respected ulema such as Ayatollah Baqar us Sadr, Ayatollah Khomeini or similar scholars, you will find inadequacies in Mr. Hassan’s “books”.

But I may be wrong. So I suggest a simple test. Take the first book “For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People”. Its topic is comparison of political systems and it has attempted to reason. Take another book on similar topic. Let me suggest Fredrich Engel’s book “The origin of the families, private property and the states”. It was written in 1884 when knowledge on the subject was much limited. Now choose scholars/professors of philosophy and political science (I would suggest professors of Cambridge, Oxford, Harvard, McGill, UCL, UCLA, Imperial or similar Universities to standardise the results. Any honest, unbiased person can read both and compare) and ask them to rate the two books by awarding numbers out of 100. The standard of a person claiming to be infallible will be immediately evident to you. I have read both books and expect the “For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People” to be awarded between 10-20 numbers, and “The origin of the families, private property and the states” to be awarded between 60-80 numbers.

Our prophets and imams (salam-ullah alaih) never shied away from scholarly challenges. Someone claiming to be Yamani, son of 12^th imam a.s and 1^st Mehdi should not do either. I would request Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and his Ansars to please respond to these challenges and then we can move forwards. If they cannot, then I am afraid, I will have no choice but to regard Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan’s claims to be fake and his believers to be deviated from the path of 12 imams.

May Allah be kind to us and help us find the truth.

Wassalam.

Salam,

Well lets start with a simple thing and that is Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) has a group which is a minority. In the Quran it is a principle, Allah swt favors the minority. Now I dont know where your coming up with this dream technique stuff man. Havent you read specific hadith on dreams and what are the different categories of them. Also if you see Ahlul Bayt(as) in a dream it is truly them, because shaytan does not take there form. Many people have had the prophets/imams come in there dreams telling them to pledge to Imam Ahmad(as). So I dont know why your holding dreams so lightly. You are trying to degrade the importance of dreams, but remember there are countless hadiths by Ahlul Bayt(as) on dreams and there importance. I wonder if your actually going to go ahead and challenge the 12th imam(as), because it seems like you will. Now about istakhara:

The Prophet of Allah said: `Among the felicities of the children of Adam is that he asks the best from Allah and His pleasure in that which Allah has decreed for him. And among the misfortunes of the children of Adam is abandoning the asking of what is best from

Allah and not being pleased with what Allah has decreed. " Bihar al‑Anwar, Volume 77, Page 159, Hadith 153

al‑Imam 'Ali (‘as) in the will to his son recommended that, "... (In all your actions) continuously ask (Allah) for the best. " Nahj al‑Balaagha, Saying 31

He also said, `Any time you have decided to perform an act, then ask (Allah) for what is best. " Ghurur al‑Hikm, Saying 3988

Now are you going to tell me istakhara is not important, and that its not significant. Would you not trust what Allah has decided for you? Indeed it is something which has been reccomended by the Ahlul Bayt(as) in anything that we do.

We cannot pick and choose the parts of religion we like and what we dont like that is not allowed. We have no choice, we cannot bring in our own opinions, we do what Ahlul Bayt(as) has told us to do.

Now about your first question to the Imam(as) you can email it your self, because I am not going to go and ask my Imam something like that. Heres the link: http://the-savior.com/home/Contact-us/Contact.html

Now the second thing, man its sad that your way two distinguish an Imam would be to get everyone to rate his books. First thing, the books been translated to english and do not have the best value when they come in to that form. Why dont you go ask an arabic speaker to read his books in arabic and then go ahead make a judgement. So my advice would be to go check out his books in the arabic language. Lastly Imam Ahmad al Hassan(as) has challenged the scholars to a debate:

"And until when they came He said:Did you lie unto my signs,and you were not knowing of its knowledge,or what have you been doing"verse 84 Surat AlNamelI seek refuge to Allah and let us be aware from becoming amongst the liars unto the signs of Allah the Exalted.And we ask Allah to maintain success for the true believers,so they can be honored to serve Imam Al Mahdi a.s He is the All-Hearing and Answering.

As for this call it is directed to three groups of scholars:

The first group:Sayed Ali AlSistani,or Sayed AlMara'ashi in deputyship of Sayed AlSistani authorized with a stamp. And AlSayed Muhammad Sa'eed AlHakeem.And AlSheikh Muhammad Ishaaq AlFayaath.And the conditions of this debate with these three scholars,that this debate will be for everybody to witness and for all the people, and in a public place,and if the debate ends with one of them lying unto the messenger of the Imam a.s,on the liar is to imprecate with the messenger of the Imam in the same place and infront of all the people "he who was destined to perish will perish by clear evidence, and he who was destined to live will live by clear evidence. surely, Allah is All-Hearing, and All-knowing."Surat AlAnfal verse42

The second group: Sayed Kamal AlHaydary,Sayed Taqi AlModaressi,and Sayed Kaathem AlHaeri.And the conditions with these scholars have the same conditions to the first,they will debate with Sheikh Naathem AlUqaili in order to make firm the origin of the call and learning its specification,and then if they needed to debate with me in the knowledge of Tafseer,I am ready with the Might of Allah and I will welcome them.And Praises due to Allah the One and Only.

Third group:Sheikh Qasem AlTa'i and Sheikh Muhammad AlYaqoobi and AlSayed Muhammad Ritha AlSistani,and these people will be debating with Sheikh Nathem AlUqaili in order to make firm the truthfulness of this call and to answer its specifications only.With all the conditions applying to the first group but without the imprecation.

'i am only ordered to worship the lord of this place, which he has made sacred, everything belongs to him. and i am ordered to be of the muslims,

and to recite the koran. whosoever is guided is only guided for himself, and to whosoever goes astray,say: 'i am only a warner. '

and say: 'praise belongs to Allah! he will show you his signs and you will recognize them. your lord is not inattentive of what you do. '

verse 91-93 Surat AlNamel

Now Imam(as) has challenged these men to a debate, none of them have answered its been about 7-8 years. So Imam Ahmad(as) is ready for a debate, but it seems that some individuals are not simple as that.

I am willing to answer anything to the full of my knowledge.

[Abu_zar]

we are not saying that all scholars are bad. No, Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan mentioned working scholars, those who do what they say like Sayyed Khomaini, Sayyed Mohammed Mohammed Sadiq Al-Sadr and Mohammed Baqir Al-Sadr (rahmat Allah alayhum) and those who narrated the narrations of Ahlul Bait like Sheikh Al-Toosi the author of the book "the occultation"in which the will of the prophet is mentioned and many other narrations and Sayyed Hashim Al-Bahrani the author of "Tafseer Al-Burhan". and so on

They just could not say that all scholars throughout the shia history were bad. So they very conveniently chose some who could not come and deny Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan as they were dead. Condemning over 50 grand Ayatollah alive was necessary as ALL of them consider Mr. Ahmad Al-Hassan wrong and fake.

But even here the "Ansars" of Mr. Ahmad Al-Hassan got entangled in their own trap. The scholars mentioned above as good ones are either maraja e taqleed (grand Ayatollah Sayyed Khomaini & Sayyed Mohammed Mohammed Sadiq Al-Sadr) or right hand of grand Ayatollah Khoei (grand Ayatollah Mohammed Baqir Al-Sadr). These people preached taqleed and got nearly all shia nation to do taqleed of grand Ayatollah Sayyed Khomaini & grand Ayatollah Khoei. Ayatollah Sayyed Khomaini was the pioneer of Vilayat e Faqih and first Wali e Faqih of Iran.

Now Mr. Ahmad Al-Hassan declares both taqleed and vilayat e faqih haram (how else could he justify all marajay and their students being against him). Yet he and his ansars praise late scholars who have preached and lead hundreds of millions of shias into believing and practicing these haram acts (taqleed and vilayat e faqih) all their lives. What a great contradiction.

[Abu_zar]

You wrote: Well lets start with a simple thing and that is Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) has a group which is a minority. In the Quran it is a principle, Allah swt favors the minority.

My reply: So are we as shiite. Besides if being in minority is the sign of being right then Jews and Ahmedis are also in minority. Would you like to join them. Not every minority is right my friend.

You wrote: Now I dont know where your coming up with this dream technique stuff man. Havent you read specific hadith on dreams and what are the different categories of them. Also if you see Ahlul Bayt(as) in a dream it is truly them, because shaytan does not take there form. Many people have had the prophets/imams come in there dreams telling them to pledge to Imam Ahmad(as). So I dont know why your holding dreams so lightly. You are trying to degrade the importance of dreams, but remember there are countless hadiths by Ahlul Bayt(as) on dreams and there importance.

My reply: You have totally missed the point. I am against using dreams as a proof of an imam being right or wrong. Tell me.

• Why did Hazrat Noah a.s. kept making arc for years while people kept coming to him asking questions and arguing, why did he not ask the same easy way of going and dreaming?
  
• When Azar or Namrood denied Hazrat Ibrahim a.s., did he reason with them or asked them to go to sleep and see dreams?
  
• When Hazrat Musa a.s. went to Fir'on, did he ask him to take guidance from dreams?
  
• When Holy Prophet (saww) was asked to declare Islam, he was asked to invite his close relatives to dinner and then talk to them. When he went to general public, he went to hill and asked the people if they would believe him if he said there was enemy on other side, using his truthfulness as reason for his being right then. The pebbles spoke on his hands, the mountain moved towards him, the moon was bisected, the sun came back from west. But dreams??????
  
• Each time Hazrat Ali a.s. proved himself being right, he said "Salooni" and used his divine knowledge. Tell us when did he ask people to go back and dream?
  
• When people of Mamoon Rasheed's court objected against giving too much respect to Imam Muhammad Taqi a.s. a debate was arranged when the opposition asked Imam Taqi a.s. about the kaffara of killing an animal during ahraam. You would know imam's answer. Why did he not ask them to go and dream?
  

So it is logic, reasoning and divine knowledge my friend that our prophets and imams use to prove their position. Not this "dream technique". It is used by Christian missionaries.

You wrote: I wonder if your actually going to go ahead and challenge the 12th imam(as), because it seems like you will.

My reply: I will need to be fully convinced before believing on anyone. Are you not aware that more than 30 men have claimed to be 12th imam? It appears that if you were in their times, you would have immediately accepted them.

You wrote: Now about istakhara. Now are you going to tell me istakhara is not important, and that its not significant. Would you not trust what Allah has decided for you? Indeed it is something which has been reccomended by the Ahlul Bayt(as) in anything that we do.

My reply: Of course I do lot of istakhara myself, but only on appropriate occasion. istakhara is never used to find if someone is imam or not. Tell me,

• When there was the issue of first caliph, did Hazrat Ali ask people to do istakhara or used logic?
  
• Did Hazrat Imam Hasan a.s. ask Muawiya or people in doubt, to do istakhara?
  
• Each time there was a controversy in someone being imam, did imam ask people to do istakhara?
  
• Why are there so many signs of imam e zamana a.s in Hadith. Only a direction to do istakhara should have been sufficient?
  

Dear friend, it is not use of istakhara, it is misuse of it. You have to use logic and reasoning to recognise an imam.

You wrote: Now about your first question to the Imam(as) you can email it your self, because I am not going to go and ask my Imam something like that. Heres the link: http://the-savior.co...us/Contact.html

My reply: I have gone to the website and mailed following letter:

Sir, your “Ansars” claim that you are infallible and have divine knowledge, I would like to meet you and talk to you in a language that a person of your background is unlikely to understand and ask you questions based on a subject that you have not studied by a teacher on earth. If you would answer those questions properly, then it will be a big proof that you may be a genuine Yamani and a Mehdi. Now if I write the questions here, you can find the answers from many sources. So kindly come and see me. If you are imam, you can do so. And I cannot come to you as you are hidden.

Moreever, I write 3 couplets and ask you to get me the full names of three poets who wrote these couplets:

First Couplet:

محبتیں بھی تو ملتی ہیں رزق کی صورت

محبتوں میں بھی رزقِ حلال دیکھا کر

Second Couplet:

ریت پہ لکھی تحریریں تو لہروں میں کھو جاتی ہیں

پھر بھی اپنا نام لکھو تو ساتھ میں میرا نام بھی لکھنا

Third Couplet:

مجھے کسی بھی نگینے کی اب تلاش نہیں

کہ آ گیا مری انگشتری کو پتھر راس

Now please do write the names of poets who wrote these couplets if you are true in your claims. Please, Please, Please answer and help us find the truth.

Yours truly,

I am sure that if he is a true imam, he will write to me with the names of poets and will also come and see me. I will write here if the answer comes.

You wrote: Now the second thing, man its sad that your way two distinguish an Imam would be to get everyone to rate his books. First thing, the books been translated to english and do not have the best value when they come in to that form. Why dont you go ask an arabic speaker to read his books in arabic and then go ahead make a judgement. So my advice would be to go check out his books in the arabic language.

My reply: No my friend. You cannot hide behind this line of reasoning. We are not talking of books of poetry or romantic prose. We are talking of books of analysis which keep their strength despite translation. Incidentally, the book I recommended for comparison was also written in German. It was translated in English by Alick West and published in 1942. The fact is that the books (or articles) by Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan are substandard.

You wrote: Lastly Imam Ahmad al Hassan(as) has challenged the scholars to a debate: Now Imam(as) has challenged these men to a debate, none of them have answered its been about 7-8 years. So Imam Ahmad(as) is ready for a debate, but it seems that some individuals are not simple as that.

My reply: This is again a non-starter. First, it is not clear if he is a man or just a project of anti-shia people to divide the nation. Second, if he is in hiding, how will he come and debate. OK, if he is a real imam, I request him to come to me, or call me in next 10 days, to a place outside Arab world to answer my questions and guide me.

My dear friend. If you are an honest and true muslim, please see the patterns set by our imams and prophets, rely on hadiths present in kutub e arbea in sequence and be careful not to offend our 12^th imam by siding with people who have not proved the truth.

I have sent him the email you asked me, and here too I have requested him to give me time to question and clarify my concepts. Now he and his Ansars complain that scholars do not respond to his challenges. Let us see how he responds. If he is a true imam, we will get answers in 10 days. If we do not get answer from him, well, you know what to conclude.

[Abu_zar]

Now I dont know where your coming up with this dream technique stuff man.

Dear brother, The main problem I found in Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan's books were his lack of awareness with modern subjects like philosophy, science, logic, politics and so on. He only concentrates on controvertial hadeeths with weak backgrounds. He also mixes truth (e.g. about Kerbala) with his personal message very cleverly so that an inexperienced reader/listener gets all emotional and loses analytical will. The way he has criticised democracy was so flawed. No system has given mankind more personal and institutional freedom than democracy. No system has the capacity to self-correct itself like democracy where if people choose a wrong man/party, they can go back in few years and replace him. Person/party chosen may also refrain from taking wrong steps, and engage in good deeds if only for fear of rejection in next election. That is why the man praised by Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and his Ansar (even if only to win hearts of Iranian people) i.e. Ayatollah Khomeini also applied democracy in Iran, and so strongly that even in days of war, when Iraqi army was gaining grounds, he did not postpone elections in Iran. The only people who will side with Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan would be the ruling elite of countries like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE and Kuwait. Hence the thought comes in mind that if he has been serving their interests. After all, we have to use our logic, reasoning and intellect.

If you study about dreams, you will find that there is something called "Lucid Dreams". These are the dreams where you are actually aware of dreaming and can do something on your own will (if you know the technique). Any expert who wants to exploit someone, can work a weak person up emotionally and psychologically and make him see the dream. It is a favourite technique of Christian missionaries but no rightful Imam or Prophet has used it. For details, see

http://www.scribd.com/doc/1319/A-Beginners-Guide-to-Lucid-Dreaming-Techniques

[Ahmad 313]

Now I dont know where your coming up with this dream technique stuff man.

Dear brother, The main problem I found in Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan's books were his lack of awareness with modern subjects like philosophy, science, logic, politics and so on. He only concentrates on controvertial hadeeths with weak backgrounds. He also mixes truth (e.g. about Kerbala) with his personal message very cleverly so that an inexperienced reader/listener gets all emotional and loses analytical will. The way he has criticised democracy was so flawed. No system has given mankind more personal and institutional freedom than democracy. No system has the capacity to self-correct itself like democracy where if people choose a wrong man/party, they can go back in few years and replace him. Person/party chosen may also refrain from taking wrong steps, and engage in good deeds if only for fear of rejection in next election. That is why the man praised by Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and his Ansar (even if only to win hearts of Iranian people) i.e. Ayatollah Khomeini also applied democracy in Iran, and so strongly that even in days of war, when Iraqi army was gaining grounds, he did not postpone elections in Iran. The only people who will side with Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan would be the ruling elite of countries like Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, UAE and Kuwait. Hence the thought comes in mind that if he has been serving their interests. After all, we have to use our logic, reasoning and intellect.

If you study about dreams, you will find that there is something called "Lucid Dreams". These are the dreams where you are actually aware of dreaming and can do something on your own will (if you know the technique). Any expert who wants to exploit someone, can work a weak person up emotionally and psychologically and make him see the dream. It is a favourite technique of Christian missionaries but no rightful Imam or Prophet has used it. For details, see

http://www.scribd.co...ming-Techniques

Salam,

Brother you have brought up many points, so Ill be answering them one by one inshAllah if thats fine with you.

You have said that Imam Ahmad(as) books have a lack of awareness on things such as philosophy, science, logic, politics and etc. We need to understand that many people have started to focus on those things so much and have forgotten to practice the sunnah of the Holy prophet and his progeny(pbut). This is what is very different now, that people focus on thing which are not that important compared to thhe teachings of the Ahlul Bayt(as). Of course I'm not saying that we should stop studying those subjects, but that we have to realize what is more important for us, the subjects that you have mentioned or the sunnah of Muhammed and his Progeny (pbut). Ill quote something from Imam Ahmad (as) and what he said about the hawza's when he went there:

I have found that the studying level is below average (I don’t say that’s according to me or my opinion). Also, I have found that there is a big disorder in the curriculum as they study the Arabic language, logic, philosophy, the origin of Jurisprudence, the knowledge of speech, creeds and Jurisprudence ( the legitimate law), yet they never study the Holy Quran or honorable Sunna ( prophet’s Mohammed PBUH or the Imams narrations). Furthermore, they do not study the ethics of the divine which the believers should have.

It can be clearly seen that we are putting to much importance on the subjects you mentioned, while we are neglecting the Quran and Sunnah.

The system of democracy is something which is very flawed. The reason for that is that a fallible individual cannot bring any success to the world/Muslims, that is why only Allah swt is the one who places a leader on earth and no body else. I do understand that democracy has many pros, why didn't Allah swt let us select our leaders, just as the Sunnis love to? Why do we condemn Sunnis for there method of choosing leaders , while we go ahead and commit the same things? Allah swt has clearly stated in the Quran: When your Lord said to the angels: Indeed, I am placing a vicegerent in the Earth. (2:30) If Allah swt is saying this, then who gives me or you the right in religion to choose a leader, please i would like to see a narration for this. Overall this system has not once been supported by Allah swt or Ahlul Bayt(as), so that should clearly indicate to any individual who follows the Quran and Ahlul Bayt that this system is haram.

Now with out narrations ill show you how this system is flawed. It can be seen that many of the western countries, such as America are using this system of democracy. Well the acts which have been committed by America throughout the world are honestly an example of how democracy has turned out to be a failure. If someone does follow that methodology they must believe it to be for everyone, and no go to other countries to humiliate them. America being one example of how a democracy is a failure. It can be depicted that the system that there is no freedom in democracy either, who decides your freedom, it is a bunch of men thats all. So we cannot say that the system of democracy gives an individual absolute freedom. Many people when they think of freedom, they think to seek there own desires which they want to fulfill. Systems such as democracy indeed fulfill these for people, while the law most of the times contradicts the Islamic laws. I personally think the idea is a true failure, look at the state of the world and how negative it is, with the majority of countries being democratic. There is a reason why the Mahdi(as) will come, and most surely not for democracy, in which people will decide everything, it will be to place what Allah wants to implement on the earth. I don't think I can explain the failures of democracy better then Imam Ahmad(as) :

The Inconsistencies of Democracy

1- Dictatorship is at the bottom of democracy: - this fact is clear in practice because when an intellectual doctrine assumes power through a given party, it seeks to impose its political vision on this country, in one way or another. Some might say that the people themselves elected and got this doctrine to power, however, I find that the people have placed this party and this intellectual doctrine in power, based on what is available on the political field during the elections period. The people do not know how things are going to turn out in a year. Therefore, should this ruling regime harm their religious or secular interests in any way, they will not be able to revert it, as the proverb says, “Things have gone past the point of no return, there's nothing that can be done about it now”.

Thus, governors like Hitler who wreaked havoc in the land have gotten to power through elections and alleged democracy, and in case there were claims that what happened in Germany was due to the immaturity of democracy at that time, you should know that this is also the case in Italy nowadays. Indeed, in Italy, a group of people came to power and got the country involved in a rotten war against Islam and Muslims, alongside America. Even though the Italian people are currently opposed to this government and the opposition is calling for the withdrawal of the Italian troops, the oppressing party in power insists on keeping the Italian troops occupying Iraq. Hence, we see how dictatorship and fascism have nowadays returned to Italy. We also notice, in democratic United Kingdom, which is the main ally of the United States of America in its occupation of Iraq and the aggression made against Islam and Muslims, that millions of people protested in the streets of London condemning this miscreant and colonial war against Islam and Muslims but without affecting the decision of the British government at all. This only leads us to conclude that Dictatorship is well rooted in the core of Democracy.

2- The biggest democratic country in the world practices dictatorship: - Although the regime in the United States of America appears to be democratic, it still practices the ugliest forms of dominance and dictatorship on the population of the world. This is a clear contradiction to the concept of democracy. Indeed, a regime that holds a composed doctrine has to apply it on everyone, at any place and time, without any exception. However, Americans want to humiliate and dominate the people of the earth, and treat Muslims with particular contempt and disrespect because they know that the Imam Al-Mahdi (as), the Imam of all Muslims, will bring the United States of America to an end. Another fact to notice is that the American Muslims living in the United States suffer as well from discrimination. Where is the democracy then?

3- Democracy and money: Democracy has no place for those who do not have money to spend on propaganda, lies, falsification of facts, hiring of mercenaries and villains. Hence, the power of money in the democratic regime appears in an abnormal way. Parties and organizations start plundering the money of the poor and misfortunate, in one way or another, before treason starts. For instance, in the United States, the Jewish control the course of the elections through money and achieve a minimum success rate of 70% in the nomination of whoever they want in power in the United States, so that the American support for the Zionist State continues. As for the deceptive and false advertising and the power of money over democracy, it is an issue that was constantly discussed in the newspapers in America itself. In fact, I remember that, years ago, I read an article written by an American author confirming that the democracy in the United States is just a sham and an insignificant play for what govern it are deception, scams and money.

4- Democracy and freedom: there is no regime in the whole world that recognizes absolute freedom; even the democratic regime places restraints on the freedom of individuals and groups. However, what is the extent of these restraints which diminish freedom? And to which extent one can let individuals and groups be free to do whatever they want?!

Note that it is people who impose those restraints on freedom and that they certainly commit mistakes not to mention that most of them only care about satisfying their cravings. Therefore, in democracy, restraints are imposed on religion, reform, in addition to the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice, because the divine religion incorporates another law that contradicts the positive law which is the Divine Law. In fact, in democracy, freedom is unleashed in order to discharge desires, corruption as well as impairment, and to sink in the vices prohibited by Allah. Consequently, all societies where democracy was implemented had turned into deteriorated and rotten communities, because positive law protects the person that practices adultery, corruption, drinking alcohol, nudity (for women) and other forms of corruption.

5- Democracy and religion: the divine religion has, undoubtedly, a philosophy different from the democratic philosophy whereas the religion of Allah only recognizes the appointment made by Allah (I am placing on Earth a caliph) which is the appointment of the Mahdi (as) and only recognizes the law of Allah in our era (the Quran) for us Muslims, whereas for the Jews, God appointed Eliyahu (as) and his law is represented by the Torah, and for the Christians, God appointed Issa[12] (as) and his law is stated in the Gospel. If that were the case, how does the Muslim, Christian or Jew claim he believes in Allah and acknowledges His supremacy which is represented by the Mahdi (as) and the Quran, Issa (as) and the Gospel or Eliyahu (as) and the Torah; and, at the same time, recognizes the supremacy of the people and democracy that refutes the pillar of the divine religion and the supremacy of Allah on earth. Therefore, whoever acknowledges democracy and elections cannot be related to the divine religion and is considered a disbeliever in all religions and in the supremacy of Allah.

6 – Democracy from the cradle to the grave: When the course of democracy gets started in a given country, tens of political parties and currents may be constituted. However, since deception, falsification, lies, defamation, advertising and money rule the country in reality, all these parties are dismantled with time, and mostly only two parties remain on the political field. In fact, the final result and the bitter end come up to one of these two parties dominating the helm of leadership. In consequence, dictatorship reappears in the form of democracy. Indeed, the two oldest democratic countries represent clear evidence to this situation because they are experiencing the last stages of democracy. In fact, these two countries are none other than the United Kingdom, where both the Conservative and the Labor Parties are dominant, and the United States of America where the Republic and Democratic parties are dominant. At this stage, these parties are in conflict over the absolute dominance of the helm of leadership for Democracy entails a phase of eliminating the weak. Thus, people are currently going through a transition from democracy towards dictatorship. In fact, the domination of two parties and ideologies of the helm of leadership, is by itself, a form of dictatorship if we take the ideological compatibility between them and the absence of any true ideological opposition into consideration. Furthermore, this phenomenon only applies, if no setback occurs after a group of democracy advocates takes over the rule and eliminates the other parties, thus changing from a democracy into a dictatorship overnight. In this regard, the Greek philosopher Plato says (and among the advocates of democracy and protectors of the people will emerge the one who is the most violent and subtle, he then banishes or executes the rich, abolishes debts, partitions the lands and forms himself a garrison to protect him from the dangers of plots. The people then rejoice with him and he takes over the reign. Moreover, in order to consolidate his position, keep the people off him and stay indispensable, he declares war against his neighbors after making peace with them. Thus, he would be able to have his own way in the country, cut off the head of every opponent or critic, keep all virtuous man away from him and bring over a group of mercenaries and veterans. He also gives generously to the poets we banished from our city so they heap him with praise. Furthermore, he plunders the temples and squeezes the people to feed his guards and assistants. Finally, realizes at this point that they’ve witnessed a transition from freedom to tyranny and that this is the last government) “The Republic”, by Plato.

I settle for these inconsistencies for abridgment purposes, otherwise the inconsistencies of democracy are so numerous.

Please try to prove the points that Imam Ahmad(as) made wrong. Overall my main point is that this world will not see any success until an infallible takes the rule of it.

Alright now about dreams, yes I completely understand about lucid dreaming. The thing we need to understand is that, seeing the Ahlul Bayt in a dream is like actually seeing them in reality. So again we cannot deviate from hadith, and start using these other methods to prove something wrong. No devil or anything can take the form of the Ahlul Bayt(as). Thats what I am trying to say to you, so lets focus more on what the Ahlul Bayt have told us about dreams.

Ill answer your other questions/points asap.

Fi Aman Allah brother

Edited August 26, 2011 by Ahmad 313

[Abu_zar]

You wrote: You have said that Imam Ahmad(as) books have a lack of awareness on things such as philosophy, science, logic, politics and etc. We need to understand that many people have started to focus on those things so much and have forgotten to practice the sunnah of the Holy prophet and his progeny(pbut). This is what is very different now, that people focus on thing which are not that important compared to the teachings of the Ahlul Bayt(as). Of course I'm not saying that we should stop studying those subjects, but that we have to realize what is more important for us, the subjects that you have mentioned or the sunnah of Muhammed and his Progeny (pbut). Ill quote something from Imam Ahmad and what he said about the hawza's when he went there:

Quote

I have found that the studying level is below average (I don’t say that’s according to me or my opinion). Also, I have found that there is a big disorder in the curriculum as they study the Arabic language, logic, philosophy, the origin of Jurisprudence, the knowledge of speech, creeds and Jurisprudence ( the legitimate law), yet they never study the Holy Quran or honorable Sunna ( prophet’s Mohammed PBUH or the Imams narrations). Furthermore, they do not study the ethics of the divine which the believers should have. It can be clearly seen that we are putting to much importance on the subjects you mentioned, while we are neglecting the Quran and Sunnah

Dear brother. Can you not see the weakness in your argument? The muslims are so lowly placed in the world today because they have allowed others to take the leadership in knowledge and learning. Look around you. Your fan, bulbs, TV, radio, computer, internet, you car, bike, aeroplane even the toilet system, have muslims invented any of these things at all? If anything, we need to put more efforts on contemporary subjects and knowledge.

Moreover, here we are talking of the legacy of imams and infallibles. Could you ever think for a second that Hazrat Ali or any imam would shy away from say a question of science or maths saying this was not his field? He said that he knew more of the pathways in sky than on earth. He said “Salooni, salooni, qabla an tafqadooni”. What happened to ilm e ladunni (divine knowledge)?

If I would accept someone my imam, I would expect him to know Chemistry more than Richard Heck, Economy more than Kenneth Arrow, Physiology more than Hamilton Smith and Physics more than James Cronin. His command on Quran and Sunnah will obviously be the supreme.

You wrote: The system of democracy is something which is very flawed. The reason for that is that a fallible individual cannot bring any success to the world/Muslims, that is why only Allah swt is the one who places a leader on earth and no body else. I do understand that democracy has many pros, why didn't Allah swt let us select our leaders, just as the Sunnis love to? Why do we condemn Sunnis for there method of choosing leaders , while we go ahead and commit the same things? Allah swt has clearly stated in the Quran: When your Lord said to the angels: Indeed, I am placing a vicegerent in the Earth. (2:30) If Allah swt is saying this, then who gives me or you the right in religion to choose a leader, please I would like to see a narration for this. Overall this system has not once been supported by Allah swt or Ahlul Bayt(as), so that should clearly indicate to any individual who follows the Quran and Ahlul Bayt that this system is haram.

Dear brother. When did sunnis practiced democracy? If you think that democracy was practiced in Saqeefa, you are absolutely wrong. Democracy gives every contender to freely present his case and have equal opportunity. Was Hazrat Ali a.s allowed to present his case? Was he given equal opportunity? Was democracy practiced in choosing 2^nd or 3^rd caliph. If anything, some democratic spirit was seen when 4^th caliph was chosen who kept asking to give the caliphate to someone else but the muslims kept on forcing him to accept it.

You say sunnis love democracy. Go and ask emperors and kings of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Oman, Kuwait and UAE. They are all shievering with the prospects of popular movements and democracies.

OK. Offer a substitute. In the 1200 years of occultation, which system has proven to be better than others (not flawless, better)? What Imam Khomeini should have done after Iranian revolution. Leave Iran without a system? Why can you not be practical? Very strange my brother. Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan vehemently calls all great deeds practiced by imam Khomeini as haram (democracy, Vilayat e Faqih, taqleed)and yet he selects his name among 4 or 5 scholars he chooses to praise in last 1200 years. Can you answer this contradiction?

You wrote: Alright now about dreams, yes I completely understand about lucid dreaming. The thing we need to understand is that, seeing the Ahlul Bayt in a dream is like actually seeing them in reality. So again we cannot deviate from hadith, and start using these other methods to prove something wrong. No devil or anything can take the form of the Ahlul Bayt(as). Thats what I am trying to say to you, so lets focus more on what the Ahlul Bayt have told us about dreams.

Dear brother, what if I tell you that some people have claimed about seeing holy prophet (saww) in their dreams.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/385182-seeing-the-prophet-pbuh-in-my-dream.html

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vE8uJSjKvfMJ:www.quransunnah.com/modules.php%3Fname%3DQNA%26l_op%3Dviewlink%26cid%3D63%26orderby%3DhitsD+i+saw+prophet+in+dream&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=pk&client=firefox-a&source=www.google.com.pk

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?30897-Dream-of-Prophet-Mohammed-%28PBUH%29

But the dreams do not appear very impressive.

I do not know how authentic is this hadeeth as I have encountered claiming to have seen ahlul bait but description puzzles me.

Moreover, you have not responded to my claim that asking the seeker to go and get guidance from dream has not been practice of prophets and imams. They always rely on logic, reasoning and knowledge. Then why is Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan deviating from sunna of prophets & imams? Please read again my posting on this matter.

You wrote: Ill answer your other questions/points asap.

I think you are a student, so I believe you should concentrate more on your studies. You have already written quite a lot and the rest of the stuff is available on website. There is no point in repeating this. I hope that with further education and experience & exposure, you will develop a better understanding. I will pray for you.

However, there is one favour that you owe me. You asked me to write and ask Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and I have done that. Now if he could not answer the names of poets of three couplets, then this should not go unnoticed and some conclusion must be drawn from it.

Moreover, you, all Ansars of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan and he himself keep regretting that scholars are not responding to their challenges of munazara. Now I have very humbly requested him to come and answer my questions and clarify my concepts. Let us see how he responds. If he is a true imam, we will get answers in 10 days. If we do not get answer from him, well, you know what to conclude.

Fi Aman Allah brother

[Abu_zar]

So many days have passed. I am still waiting. Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan, who claims to have ilm e ladunni has not been able to answer my question.

Then how can he and his Ansars complain that scholars are not taking up his challenge of munazra when he himself is unable to answer my simple questions?

[GreenLantern]

I used to be *obsessed* with conspiracy theories before i watched the arrivals, so the first time i saw it i could see how dodgy they were being, especially with the music videos and boohoo umar was killed boohoo nonsense at the end. ive been suspicious of them all along but like you said, the ignorant but well intentional followers of hashem films, and therefore the people who are being led to this dajjal, dont have a clue. hashem films use compelling music, plenty of pictures and talk about conspiracies that many people want to know more about.

may they all die in the toilet together along with all fake mahdis.

That’s a little harsh, especially coming from one of the followers of the most honourable in akhlaq, the AhlulBayt a.s. Ahmad al Hassan doesn’t tell you to watch conspiracy theories, but to read and research and come to your own conclusion using your reason and not trust your akhirah in the hands of anyone except those appointed by Allah swt.

So now according to you I follow dajjal because I believe that supremacy belongs only to Allah swt and scholars aren’t divinely appointed that I would give them my alleigance?

I used to think the same before I put aside my prejudice and asked for guidance, and definitely Allah swt is the best of Guides and the best Helper.

One thing I will say after seeing all the comments, is that the akhlaq of the Ansar was what drew me to them. After all our Holy Prophet was sent for the purpose of completing akhlaq. You should stay calm even if you vehemently disagree with the opposing view. Believe me if you are looking for the truth you will find it.

'Surely, you have been made to see if (only) you care to see; surely, you have been guided if (only) you care to take guidance; and surely, you have been made to hear if (only) you lend your ears' - Imam Ali a.s., Nahjul Balagha.

[Love-Of-Islam]

That’s a little harsh, especially coming from one of the followers of the most honourable in akhlaq, the AhlulBayt a.s. Ahmad al Hassan doesn’t tell you to watch conspiracy theories, but to read and research and come to your own conclusion using your reason and not trust your akhirah in the hands of anyone except those appointed by Allah swt.

So now according to you I follow dajjal because I believe that supremacy belongs only to Allah swt and scholars aren’t divinely appointed that I would give them my alleigance?

I used to think the same before I put aside my prejudice and asked for guidance, and definitely Allah swt is the best of Guides and the best Helper.

One thing I will say after seeing all the comments, is that the akhlaq of the Ansar was what drew me to them. After all our Holy Prophet was sent for the purpose of completing akhlaq. You should stay calm even if you vehemently disagree with the opposing view. Believe me if you are looking for the truth you will find it.

'Surely, you have been made to see if (only) you care to see; surely, you have been guided if (only) you care to take guidance; and surely, you have been made to hear if (only) you lend your ears' - Imam Ali a.s., Nahjul Balagha.

:no: care to reply to bro abu arguments? Also 1 more question have u met these ansars in real life?

Edited September 8, 2011 by Love-Of-Islam

[Abu_zar]

That’s a little harsh, especially coming from one of the followers of the most honourable in akhlaq, the AhlulBayt a.s. Ahmad al Hassan doesn’t tell you to watch conspiracy theories, but to read and research and come to your own conclusion using your reason and not trust your akhirah in the hands of anyone except those appointed by Allah swt.

So now according to you I follow dajjal because I believe that supremacy belongs only to Allah swt and scholars aren’t divinely appointed that I would give them my alleigance?

I used to think the same before I put aside my prejudice and asked for guidance, and definitely Allah swt is the best of Guides and the best Helper.

One thing I will say after seeing all the comments, is that the akhlaq of the Ansar was what drew me to them. After all our Holy Prophet was sent for the purpose of completing akhlaq. You should stay calm even if you vehemently disagree with the opposing view. Believe me if you are looking for the truth you will find it.

'Surely, you have been made to see if (only) you care to see; surely, you have been guided if (only) you care to take guidance; and surely, you have been made to hear if (only) you lend your ears' - Imam Ali a.s., Nahjul Balagha.

Dear brother. I like what you wrote about akhlaq and staying calm. But guidance without logic and knowledge, just because you heart draws to someone, is neither wisdom, nor guidance.

Let me discuss one more reason why I do not think Ahmad al Hassan is the right man.

Let us see how Abu Bakr, Umar and Hazrat Ali a.s talked of themselves and who does Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan follow:

Abu Baker on himself

People! I have been put in authority over you and I am not the best of you. So if I do the right thing then help me and if I do wrong then put me straight. ..if I do not obey Allah and His messenger, then obedience to me is not incumbent upon you. (Now prepare for prayer).

Umar on himself

After Abu Bakr, the mantle of Caliphate has fallen on my shoulders. I swear it before God that I never coveted this office. I wished that it would have devolved on some other person more worthy than me.

Hazrat Ali a.s on himself

Imam Ali A.S himself has said : “ The Holy Prophet S.A.W has fed me with His knowledge like a dove feeds its young dove with birdseed.”

On the pulpit of Masjid-e-Kufa He said: “ Saluni Qabla An Tafqiduni “ Ask me before you lose me , I am more aware of the knowledge of the heaven than the knowledge of the earth.”

Imam Ali A.S has also said: “By Allah! There is no verse in the Qur'an except that I know regarding whom it was revealed and where it was revealed, whether in the plain or on the mountain.”

Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan

Now let us see what pattern Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan follows. Read his leaflet (he calls it a book) “Letter of the guidance”. He signs at the end:

The guilty sinner

Ahmed AlHassan

This is in line with Abu Bakr and Umar and at odds with sayings of Hazrat Ali a.s. Now his Ansars believe that he is infallible, and he calls himself the guilty sinner. If he is wrong, a liar can not be Yamani or Mehdi. If he is right, he is not infallible by his own admission. A guilty sinner can not be Yamani or Mehdi.

May Allah grant us wisdom to see the truth.

If Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan is right, why does he not answer my questions and prove his ilm e ladunni and take me to "right path"? It has been 12 days and still no answer??? What do I make of this?

Abu_Zar

[786YaMahdizamana]

Salaam I think we shouldn't assume things like his followers do not think he is the "Mahdi." like a few weeks ago I had run across this on the Hashem studios on youtube. & I wanted to know who they were talking about so I asked them from what episode should I start watching & they said 187. like after that I had to go to camp for like a few days but when I came back there was a video which was about Imam Ali (as) istikhara through the Qur'an & they said you should ask Allah (SWT) if he is the Yamani ( who is suppose to come before the return of Imam Mahdi (as)) so I did it & I got: "Will be happy and accepted among the servants." here is the video on how to do it exactly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG-r4sgxrVs. Allah's word is the truth

I hope all of you try it out too...theres nothing wrong with doing it like my Dad won't do it..idk why. Allah knows the truth not us so we shouldn't start accusing before knowing sufficient knowledge about a matter.

[Abu_zar]

Salaam I think we shouldn't assume things like his followers do not think he is the "Mahdi." like a few weeks ago I had run across this on the Hashem studios on youtube. & I wanted to know who they were talking about so I asked them from what episode should I start watching & they said 187. like after that I had to go to camp for like a few days but when I came back there was a video which was about Imam Ali (as) istikhara through the Qur'an & they said you should ask Allah (SWT) if he is the Yamani ( who is suppose to come before the return of Imam Mahdi (as)) so I did it & I got: "Will be happy and accepted among the servants." here is the video on how to do it exactly http://www.youtube.c...?v=JG-r4sgxrVs. Allah's word is the truth

I hope all of you try it out too...theres nothing wrong with doing it like my Dad won't do it..idk why. Allah knows the truth not us so we shouldn't start accusing before knowing sufficient knowledge about a matter.

I think your dad won't do it because he must have spent his life reading and listening about the lives of rightful prophets and imams. These prophets and imams would spent tireless hours preaching and reasoning. They would show their divine knowledge (ilm e ladunni) and they would exhibit miracles by Allah. But none of them would ask people to make decisions based based on istakhara or to programme them into a lucid dream. I repeat, DECIDING THE TRUTHFULNESS OF AN IMAM HAS NOT BEEN DONE BY ISTIKHARA OR LUCID DREAMING. Now may be your dad understands that doing bid'at is wrong and annoys imam. Hence he wants to stay on the path adopted by prophets & imams.

[GreenLantern]

Dear brother. I like what you wrote about akhlaq and staying calm. But guidance without logic and knowledge, just because you heart draws to someone, is neither wisdom, nor guidance.

True, but it is the basis of any discussion. Someone who has difficulty controlling their emotions in an Islamic discussion either doesn’t know the message of the AhlulBayt a.s. or refuses to follow it.

Btw I'm a sister.

Now his Ansars believe that he is infallible, and he calls himself the guilty sinner. If he is wrong, a liar can not be Yamani or Mehdi. If he is right, he is not infallible by his own admission. A guilty sinner can not be Yamani or Mehdi.

Read the Supplications of Imam Zayn al Abidin a.s. and you can see the countless times the infallible Imam asks for forgiveness, and Imam Ali’s Dua Kumayl which the Imam read, its very basis is repentance from sins. Even RasulAllah used to say astaghfar 70 times a day, though he was sinless.

If Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan is right, why does he not answer my questions and prove his ilm e ladunni and take me to "right path"? It has been 12 days and still no answer??? What do I make of this?

That Ahmad al Hassan isn’t a member of Shiachat.

[Abu_zar]

True, but it is the basis of any discussion. Someone who has difficulty controlling their emotions in an Islamic discussion either doesn’t know the message of the AhlulBayt a.s. or refuses to follow it.

Btw I'm a sister.

Read the Supplications of Imam Zayn al Abidin a.s. and you can see the countless times the infallible Imam asks for forgiveness, and Imam Ali’s Dua Kumayl which the Imam read, its very basis is repentance from sins. Even RasulAllah used to say astaghfar 70 times a day, though he was sinless.

Everyone knows that imam was giving us the supplications to teach us how to ask Allah for mercy and forgiveness. Imam never sinned as per ayat e tatheer and hadees e kisa. Can you tell us that outside supplications, during conversation or writing a letter to another person, any imam introduced himself to other person as "guilty sinner"?

That Ahmad al Hassan isn’t a member of Shiachat.

But his Ansars are. Moreover, he is supposed to have ilm e ladunni. And I have mailed it to the contact of www.the-savior.com almost 2 weeks ago. So I continue to wait. The question remains that when he accuses Ayatollah Seestani and other fallible scholars of running away from his questions and not accepting his challenge, why is he doing the same here??? And if he cannot know about this matter, can you or any of his Ansars not get him to answer the questions and meet the two challenges that I very respectfully posted above. Please Ansars of Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, pass these questions to him and help me and other members of this forum to find out if he is a true Mehdi and Yamani, so we accept his bay'at and have faith on him, or he is not, in which case all the Ansars should return back to mainstream shia Isalm. :no:

Abu_zar.

Abu_Zar

[3rd June]

No picz yet??? y He stayz in Invisible Mode??? hw He ineractz wid his followerz???

is He Dead or Alive???

[Abu_zar]

No picz yet??? y He stayz in Invisible Mode??? hw He ineractz wid his followerz???

is He Dead or Alive???

Let us not be disrespectful. But in this day and age, all sort of conspiracy is lodged to damage shiite people and religion, and to protect the interest of Kingdoms of Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain etc. We are aware through Wikileaks the letter written by Saudi King requesting USA to attack Iran, and that UAE government is spending 100 million dollars a year only in Southern Punjab to promote Wahabi-ism against the shiites. It you browse through internet, you will come across numerous websites and TV channels attacking shiite interest. Now would it be illogical and unreasonable to have suspicion that these anti-shiite government have established an office with 8-10 paid experts to launch an all out attack on shiite interest under the name of Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan, by following:

1. Make shiite youth to look down at and hate all Marajay, thereby weakening the centralisation of shiite nation.
   
2. Raising questions on paying khums to a central authority who could use it to create resources for spreading and consolidating the religion, thereby weakening the resources for these activities, whereas Wahabi-ism continue to enjoy almost unlimited resources.
   
3. Declaring taqleed and wilayat e faqeeh haram so that all major scholars who asked for taqleed are denounced and we are left with no real scholar for centuries (remember names of all great scholars in the say last 100 years and tell me which one out of these 100s did not preach taqleed).
   
4. Produce alteration in concept of Masoomen, saying that infallibility was "earned" by infallibles, it was not "granted" by Allah even before the infallibles were created, thereby damaging the core concept of ayat-e tatheer and hadees e kisa.
   
5. Declaring a person of doubtful existence "Infallible" with "divine wisdom and ilm e ladunni". Then making him challenge the great shiite scholars and spreading the word that these scholars are scared of accepting his challenge. Whereas the fact is that I, with very humble and little knowledge have sent him two challenges (read above and also through website the_savior.com) and despite over two weeks passing, he has not responded to them.
   

Then it is a matter of protecting the Wahabi kingdoms. Now we know from the recent turbulence in middle east that there is a real demand for democracy in these countries and it is obvious that these kings cannot survive in democratic atmosphere. Whereas whole shia world was calling the world and super powers to bring justice and make these kings go before public for the public opinion, and whereby there was serious demand from societies of non islamic world for election in these countries(e.g. George Galloway), there came Mr. Ahmad al Hassan to protect the Saudi King and UAE, Kuwait and Bahraini kings, siding aal e Saood and al-Khalifa by declaring democracy haram. Why, why, why is he harming the shiites and justice loving sunnis of Saudi Arab, Bahrain, UAE and Kuwait and strengthening the kings responsible for killing innocent shiites and demolishing Jannatul Baqi. Read the titles of his book, read his messages. How many times he has written against these kings and how many times he has favoured the movements in these countries? But if you want to see how many times he speaks against democracy, you will loose all the counts.

Our shia brothers and sisters who side with him must understand that they are actually supporting the people responsible for and actually supporting the very acts of "DEMOLISHING OF JANNAT UL BAQI" and "killing of innocent Bahraini people". Please do not fool yourself. You will be asked about it on the day of judgement and you will not escape the wrath of Hazrat fatima Zehra a.s. and imam e zamana.

Why can our misdirected brothers and sisters not see the very obvious. Instead of relying on logic, reasoning and knowledge, these people (Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan & his Ansars) have resorted to lucid dream and istikhara which are not the practice of our Masoomeen and Prophets. Did Hazrat Fatima a.s ask people to do istikhara when she tried to convince them for khilafat of Hazrat Ali a.s? Read her khutba for Fadak. Look at the very high standards of reasoning and logic. Did she even once ask Abu Bakr to do istakhara or go and see a dream? Did any imam ask for istikhara or dreaming to prove his truth. Read Hazrat Imam Muhammad Taqi a.s. event and his reasoning when he was called in Abbasi court and tell me where did he use istikhara or dream. For God's sake, these are not our Masoomeen's sunnat. These are techniques employed by christian and Ahmedi missionaries.

If you want to see the worth of Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, get three neutral professors of very high calibre of philosophy, theosophy or social sciences. Then ask them to read Mr. Ahmad al Hassan's book "For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People" and compare it with any reasonable book (I suggest "The origin of families, private property and state" by Fredrich Angels) and then mark each on the basis of logic, reasoning and writing standards. I have read both and will give the first one 10-20 marks and the second 60-80 marks (so much for infallibility and divine wisdom). If you put Saheefa e Sajjadiya or Nehjul Balagha, they will get 100 marks each.

Abu_Zar

[mun3t]

Who is the wife of Imam al-Mahdi (ajtf) assuming that your Yamani [Ahmad al-Hassan] is the son of Imam al-Mahdi (ajtf), do they never think?

[GreenLantern]

Declaring taqleed and wilayat e faqeeh haram so that all major scholars who asked for taqleed are denounced and we are left with no real scholar for centuries (remember names of all great scholars in the say last 100 years and tell me which one out of these 100s did not preach taqleed).

What about before then? There was no Taqleed or shia scholars preaching it for hundreds of years and shia Islam thrived. Taqleed was introduced to the faith.

Imam Ali a.s. "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that they can erect it? Or was it bent so that they can straighten it? Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its opposition? Or did it force them to do righteousness so they sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

Our shia brothers and sisters who side with him must understand that they are actually supporting the people responsible for and actually supporting the very acts of "DEMOLISHING OF JANNAT UL BAQI" and "killing of innocent Bahraini people". Please do not fool yourself. You will be asked about it on the day of judgement and you will not escape the wrath of Hazrat fatima Zehra a.s. and imam e zamana.

Think how can the Yamani a.s. that calls to Imam Mahdi a.s., the first of the 313 be a supporter of Saudi Arabia? Of course this isn’t true.

Ahmad al Hassan a.s. opposes democracy and you equate that with supporting murder and tyranny. If I hate the US government doesn’t mean I support bin Laden.

Read this Hadith:

"Hijaz (Saudi Arabia) will be ruled by a man whose name is the name of an animal, when you see him from a distance, you would think he has a lazy eye, and if you get close to him, you do not see anything (wrong) in his eyes. He will be succeeded by a brother of his, named Abdullah. Woe to our Shia (followers) from him! Woe to our Shia (followers) from him! Woe to our Shia (followers) from him! - he repeated it three times - Give me the good news of his death, and I shall give you the good news of the appearance of the hujjah (Imam Mahdi)."

Reference: Two Hundred and Fifty Signs, sign number 122

Why can our misdirected brothers and sisters not see the very obvious. Instead of relying on logic, reasoning and knowledge, these people (Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan & his Ansars) have resorted to lucid dream and istikhara which are not the practice of our Masoomeen and Prophets.

Dreams/ vision are mentioned numerous times in the Qur'an as having significance, for example in the story of Prophet Yusuf a.s., the Imam's took interest and relayed interpretations of dreams and even the Prophet. Also it is agreed among all Muslims that one who sees the Holy Prophet in his dream has indeed seen the Prophet, because the Satan can not imitate him. There are numerous Ansar who have seen the Prophet Muhammad pbuh&f himself in their dream urging them to follow Ahmad Al Hassan a.s. Allah swt does send signs to those who require them to follow the truth. It is up to you to accept or reject them as in the past.

[21:5] Nay! say they: Medleys of dreams; nay! he has forged it; nay! he is a poet; so let him bring to us a sign as the former (prophets) were sent (with).

Then ask them to read Mr. Ahmad al Hassan's book "For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People" and compare it with any reasonable book (I suggest "The origin of families, private property and state" by Fredrich Angels) and then mark each on the basis of logic, reasoning and writing standards.

Abu_Zar

Listen, many hadith talk about false Mahdis but when it comes to the Yamani we find exactly the opposite. There is Hadith about how a Yamani can not be a false Yamani.

"This matter will not be claimed by anyone except the rightful owner, whoever does it Allah will cut off his age." Al-Kafi v.1 373

[Abu_zar]

KNOWLEDGE/WISDOM AGAINST BLIND ISTIKHARA & LUCID DREAMING

Dear sister (or daughter if you are less than 24 years of age) Green Lantern,

I am not trying to indulge in argument after argument. I am a truth seeker and I hope you are too. So I would request you to kindly ponder over an argument with all your intellect and wisdom with a free mind without thinking my argument or your argument.

I have read your reply carefully and tried to see your point. I have come to conclusion (this is a personal opinion which may be wrong, but I have tried to be honest and unbiased), that when you quote something, you put your intellect and wisdom aside. Your assertion appears to be that “it is written, so I am quoting it. If it does not make sense, tough”.

But this is against the very concept of free will (and Quran and Nehjul Balagha). This is not why we have been made arhraful makhlooqat. This is also not why Quran repeatedly lamented about those who do not think or those who do not use their wisdom.

Looking carefully at your argument, I should clarify my position on two core concepts:

First concept is the one of “Yuminoona bil-ghaib”, or believing in something not obvious by our senses, i.e. we cannot see, hear, smell, touch or taste it. Now such thing can be false or true. Are we to accept everything that is not confirmable by 5 senses? Then we should believe in “alif laila” and tilism e hosh-ruba”. But we do not. We use our minds, our knowledge and our wisdom to identify and differentiate the truth hidden in ghaib from falsehood. And how do we do it? Do we use Istikhara or lucid dreaming?

Let us see our holy prophet’s saww first argument before general Quraish. Only after giving them an opportunity to judge him for 40 years (why did he not do it before) and earning the titles of “Sadiq” & “ameen”, he went to the mountain and asked them if he told that there was enemy’s army on the other side, would they accept or go and confirm? They all said that they have not seen the prophet (saww) lying or deceiving in 40 years of his life, hence they would accept and instead of wasting time in confirming, they would immediately return and make preparation. He only then gave them the message of Allah. (Can you get similar logic from Mr. Ahmad al Hassan?)

Similar stories are about other prophets (showing their character first and then asking for accepting them as prophet).

And Quran says in words of Prophet:

10:16: “A whole life-time before this have I tarried amongst you: will ye not then understand?"

And Quran warns against accepting something without knowledge (no dream, no istakhara, but pure knowledge is required to prove something as Hazrat Fatima a.s did in sermon of Fadak). Read this:

Al-Nour [24:15]

Behold, ye received it on your tongues, and said out of your mouths things of which ye had no knowledge; and ye thought it to be a light matter, while it was most serious in the sight of Allah.

The second core concept is evaluating an ayat or a hadees.

Wisdom requires a holistic attitude. If you want to understand a being or a book, you need to see the entire message instead of picking from one or two places. There are said to be 72 sects in Islam. All quote ayats in their defence. Quran itself warns of mutashabehat. Hence consistency is what is required. Allah or prophet or any other person or a book, consistently, repeatedly giving a message in various different methods (like Quran talks of taking message from Allah's signs and Holy Prophet (saww) repeatedly introducing and explaining Hazrat Ali a.s. and his other ahl e bait a.s) is what is the true message. Not picking one or two hadees from this and that book as Mr. Ahmad al Hassan and his Ansars do. We all know that even in kutub e arbia, lot of ahadees are unauthentic. So if you find repeatedly 10-20 hadees in various style in one of the kutub e arbia, and the message gets loud and clear, then it may be worth discussing.

Hence Quran has repeatedly asked for using our intellect/ wisdom (in fact it has been written that Quran has been sent for men to consider the signs of Allah and to provide them wisdom). It is against blind/ illogical/ unwise acceptance of a messenger which is against the wisdom anyway. Just read carefully following ayats and ponder over them. Then review your arguments. Insha Allah you will note that you need to look around and use the knowledge/ wisdom to be part of your arguments. Please read them carefully as I have put lot of efforts in doing this. May Allah show both (all) of us the right path.

After reading following ayas, everyone will be able to understand how to pick a message sent by Allah almighty, all knowing. Similar practice can be adapted for kutub e arbia, nehjul balagha and saheefa e Sajjadia.

• Al-Imran [3:191]
  

Men who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (With the thought): "Our Lord! not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire.

• Al-An'am [6:50]
  

I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

• Ar-Ra'd [13:3]
  

And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!

• An-Nahl [16:69]
  

Then to eat of all the produce (of the earth), and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord: there issues from within their bodies a drink of varying colours, wherein is healing for men: verily in this is a Sign for those who give thought.

• An-Nahl [16:11]
  

With it He produces for you corn, olives, date-palms, grapes and every kind of fruit: verily in this is a sign for those who give thought.

• An-Nahl [16:44]
  

(We sent them) with Clear Signs and Scriptures; and We have sent down unto thee (also) the Message; that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them, and that they may give thought.

• Ar-Rum [30:21]
  

And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect.

• Az-Zumar [39:42]
  

It is Allah that takes the souls (of men) at death; and those that die not (He takes) during their sleep: those on whom He has passed the decree of death, He keeps back (from returning to life), but the rest He sends (to their bodies) for a term appointed verily in this are Signs for those who reflect.

• Al-Jathiya [45:13]
  

And He has subjected to you, as from Him, all that is in the heavens and on earth: Behold, in that are Signs indeed for those who reflect.

• Al-Hashr [59:21]
  

Had We sent down this Qur'an on a mountain, verily, thou wouldst have seen it humble itself and cleave asunder for fear of Allah. Such are the similitudes which We propound to men, that they may reflect.

• Al-Baqara [2:242]
  

Thus doth Allah Make clear His Signs to you: In order that ye may understand.

• Al-Baqara [2:258]
  

Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

• Al-Baqara [2:73]
  

So We said: "Strike the (body) with a piece of the (heifer)." Thus Allah bringeth the dead to life and showeth you His Signs: Perchance ye may understand.

• Al-Baqara [2:76]
  

Behold! when they meet the men of Faith, they say: "We believe": But when they meet each other in private, they say: "Shall you tell them what Allah hath revealed to you, that they may engage you in argument about it before your Lord?"- Do ye not understand (their aim)?

• Al-Imran [3:65]
  

Ye People of the Book! Why dispute ye about Abraham, when the Law and the Gospel Were not revealed Till after him? Have ye no understanding?

• Al-Imran [3:118]
  

O ye who believe! Take not into your intimacy those outside your ranks: They will not fail to corrupt you. They only desire your ruin: Rank hatred has already appeared from their mouths: What their hearts conceal is far worse. We have made plain to you the Signs, if ye have wisdom.

• Al-An'am [6:32]
  

What is the life of this world but play and amusement? But best is the home in the hereafter, for those who are righteous. Will ye not then understand?

• Al-An'am [6:93]
  

Who can be more wicked than one who inventeth a lie against Allah, or saith, "I have received inspiration," when he hath received none, or (again) who saith, "I can reveal the like of what Allah hath revealed"? If thou couldst but see how the wicked (do fare) in the flood of confusion at death! - the angels stretch forth their hands, (saying),"Yield up your souls: this day shall ye receive your reward,- a penalty of shame, for that ye used to tell lies against Allah, and scornfully to reject of His signs!"

• Al-An'am [6:156]
  

Lest ye should say: "The Book was sent down to two Peoples before us, and for our part, we remained unacquainted with all that they learned by assiduous study:"

• Al-An'am [6:151]
  

Say: "Come, I will rehearse what Allah hath (really) prohibited you from": Join not anything as equal with Him; be good to your parents; kill not your children on a plea of want;- We provide sustenance for you and for them;- come not nigh to shameful deeds. Whether open or secret; take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus doth He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.

• [10:77]
  

Said Moses: "Say ye (this) about the truth when it hath (actually) reached you? Is sorcery (like) this? But sorcerers will not prosper."

• Hud [11:51]
  

O my people! I ask of you no reward for this (Message). My reward is from none but Him who created me: Will ye not then understand?

• Yusuf [12:2]
  

We have sent it down as an Arabic Qur'an, in order that ye may learn wisdom.

• Yusuf [12:109]
  

Nor did We send before thee (as apostles) any but men, whom we did inspire,- (men) living in human habitations. Do they not travel through the earth, and see what was the end of those before them? But the home of the hereafter is best, for those who do right. Will ye not then understand?

• Al-Anbiya [21:10]
  

We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is a Message for you: will ye not then understand?

• Al-Anbiya
  

"Fie upon you, and upon the things that ye worship besides Allah. Have ye no sense?"

• Al-Mu'minun [23:80]
  

It is He Who gives life and death, and to Him (is due) the alternation of Night and Day: will ye not then understand?

• Ash-Shu'ara [26:28]
  

(Moses) said: "Lord of the East and the West, and all between! if ye only had sense!"

• Al-Qasas [28:60]
  

The (material) things which ye are given are but the conveniences of this life and the glitter thereof; but that which is with Allah is better and more enduring: will ye not then be wise?

• Al-Ahzab [33:63]
  

Men ask thee concerning the Hour: Say, "The knowledge thereof is with Allah (alone)": and what will make thee understand?- perchance the Hour is nigh!

• Ya-Sin [36:62]
  

But he did lead astray a great multitude of you. Did ye not, then, understand?

• As-Saffat [37:138]
  

And by night: will ye not understand?

• Az-Zumar [39:56]
  

"Lest the soul should (then) say: 'Ah! Woe is me!- In that I neglected (my duty) towards Allah, and was but among those who mocked!'-

• Ghafir [40:67]
  

It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.

• Az-Zukhruf [43:3]
  

We have made it a Qur'an in Arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).

• Al-Hadid [57:17]
  

Know ye (all) that Allah giveth life to the earth after its death! already have We shown the Signs plainly to you, that ye may learn wisdom.

Wama alaina illul balagh.

Abu_Zar

[ummekulsoom]

Masha Allah Brother Abu_Zar,

I have no doubt after reading your posts that this fake Yamani thing is indeed a conspiracy by anti shia wahabi people with money coming from middle eastern kings to weaken shiaism and to protect wahabi kingdoms against democracy. May our Lord swt give our astrayed brothers and sisters who have left shiaism to join this new sect, the wisdom to recognize the true fact and return to true shiaism thus escape the anger of Hujjatul Qaim a.s.

Umme Kulsoom

[Abu_zar]

You wrote-What about before then? There was no Taqleed or shia scholars preaching it for hundreds of years and shia Islam thrived. Taqleed was introduced to the faith.

My response-Some form of taqleed has been going on since occultation occurred.

OK. If you think taqleed is haram, answer the following:

1. For the vast majority of shia people who are not educated, what should they have done since major occultation, i.e for about 1200 years? Please give a practical applicable solution.
   
2. What is meant by "Man la yehzarul faqih", one of the kutub e arbia by Sheikh Sadduq written soon after Occultation. It is a book of furoo e deen explaining furoo in detail. It means "for one who has no faqih". If you think carefully, it implies that having faqih and doing his taqleed is what should be done. But if one has no faqih, then this book is a replacement.
   
3. There is a difference between itaa'at and taqleed. We do itaa'at of imam e masoom in which there are no ifs and buts and imam cannot go wrong. We do taqleed of mujtahid e jamush shara who is not infallible and we can have differences and argue with him.
   
4. Mr. Ahmad al Hassan carefully selected some scholars and called them good and practising scholars. He had to otherwise he could would be claiming that he was the first good scholar since major occultation. However, he knew that all living mujtahids will immediately identify him. So he very cleverly made sure that they were all deceased and could not come and speak against him. They included:
   

• Sayyed Khomaini,
  
• Sayyed Mohammed Mohammed Sadiq Al-Sadr and
  
• Mohammed Baqir Al-Sadr (rahmat Allah alayhum) and
  
• Sheikh Al-Toosi the author of the book "the occultation"
  
• Sayyed Hashim Al-Bahrani the author of "Tafseer Al-Burhan
  

However, he fell in another trap here.

• Of these five, first three preached taqleed all there lives.
  
• First two were maraja e taqleed and got tens of millions of shias to do their taqleed (haram act according to Mr. Ahmed al Hassan),
  
• First one started and preached vilayat e faqih (again a haram act according to Mr. Ahmed al Hassan),
  
• First one started democracy and held many elections in which tens of millions of people casted votes (haram acts according to Mr. Ahmed al Hassan),
  
• Third one convinced million of people to do taqleed of Syed Khoei (again a haram act according to Mr. Ahmad al Hassan).
  

The whole world except those who are blind will fail to see hypocrisy and double standards here.

You wrote- Imam Ali a.s. "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that they can erect it? Or was it bent so that they can straighten it? Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its opposition? Or did it force them to do righteousness so they sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

My response-What can I say? You are confusing ijtehaad with bid'at. Ijtehaad is the soul of shia belief and salafi consider it haram. Whereas Bid'at is condemned by all imams. Examples of Bid'at are taraweeh and Assalaat O Khair um Minun nom.

You wrote-Think how can the Yamani a.s. that calls to Imam Mahdi a.s., the first of the 313 be a supporter of Saudi Arabia? Of course this isn’t true.

Ahmad al Hassan a.s. opposes democracy and you equate that with supporting murder and tyranny. If I hate the US government doesn’t mean I support bin Laden.

My response-Are you really unable to see what is the biggest threat to killers of shias and demolishers of Junnatul Baqi? During the unrest in Yemen, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia when the fascist Saudis sent their troops to kill and rape innocent and unarmed Bahrainis, all active shias and sunni muslims who loved justice kept on arguing that these kings have no right to rule their people against their will. I was personally engaged in ferocious arguments with many people who argued that democracy was against Islam. They wrote that I should drop the demand that people of these kingdoms must be asked to go to people to seek their verdict and that it was immoral to rule the people without their will. All people arguing against democracy were Saudi, wahabi puppets and I am sure they were pid too. They were equally responsible for murdering the Bahraini brothers and raping the Bahraini sisters and demolishing of Jannatul Baqi. Nobody will be happier than Aal e saood and Al Khalifa on these baseless arguments. I do not want to be rude but sister, be warned that you too are unintentionally giving support to these hideous crimes.

Today Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan serves the purpose of middle eastern kings. Who else benefits from attacking democracy? These kingdoms are the only ones in whole world who stand to benefit from attacks on democracy.

I am not saying that democracy is as good as imam's rule. But tell me, since major occultation, which form of government should have been practiced? What is Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan's stand on that? But please, a practical, applicable form. Will he be kind enough to compare and contrast the various forms of government that could have been practised since occultation?

You wrote-Dreams/ vision are mentioned numerous times in the Qur'an as having significance, for example in the story of Prophet Yusuf a.s., the Imam's took interest and relayed interpretations of dreams and even the Prophet. Also it is agreed among all Muslims that one who sees the Holy Prophet in his dream has indeed seen the Prophet, because the Satan can not imitate him. There are numerous Ansar who have seen the Prophet Muhammad pbuh&f himself in their dream urging them to follow Ahmad Al Hassan a.s. Allah swt does send signs to those who require them to follow the truth. It is up to you to accept or reject them as in the past.

[21:5] Nay! say they: Medleys of dreams; nay! he has forged it; nay! he is a poet; so let him bring to us a sign as the former (prophets) were sent (with).

My response-I am not denying the importance of dreams on specific occasion. What I am saying is that no prophet or imam has used dream or istakhara as a proof of his truthfulness. Just go from Hazrat Noah a.s to Hazrat Ibrahim a.s to Hazrat Musa a.s to Hazrat Eisa a.s to Holy Prophet a.s. to all aimma a.s They all use logic, knowledge, divine wisdom (ilm e ladunni) and miracles (usually a combination) to confirm their place. The biggest munazara of a Masoom's place has been held at the Abu Bakr's court. The sermon of Hazrat Fatima a.s has such a divine logic. It has highest level of theosophy, phiosophy, psychology and everything that one can present. But tell me, has our beloved Hazrat Fatima a.s once mentioned dream or istikhara as proof of Hazrat Ali's right on which Mr. Ahmad al Hassan has erected his whole philosophy.

You wrote-Listen, many hadith talk about false Mahdis but when it comes to the Yamani we find exactly the opposite. There is Hadith about how a Yamani can not be a false Yamani.

"This matter will not be claimed by anyone except the rightful owner, whoever does it Allah will cut off his age." Al-Kafi v.1 373

My response-What is the logic in this. You again pick up an isolated narration and base your whole argument on it. I have not seen any such pattern in Quran or hadees. Let me tell you. Basing one's belief in such isolated narrations, is a method of getting strayed. Is this narration backed by Quran and repeated ahadith? Is it the pattern of Allah and Masoomeen to talk about people (Give some examples)? Does it fulfil the conditions required for intellectual understanding?

Wama alaina illul bilagh

Abu_Zar

[ummekulsoom]

Can someone tell me in easy language some of the objections against Ahmedul Hasan.

[Abu_zar]

Can someone tell me in easy language some of the objections against Ahmedul Hasan.

Some of the initial problems with Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, who claims to be a masoom are:

• 1. None of us has seen him, or has met anyone who has seen him.
  
• 2. His very existence is doubtful.
  
• 3. He claims to be a civil engineer but refuses to tell the year and institution of graduation so that his degree, and if present, his grades can be confirmed.
  
• 4. He refuses to reveal his parents, brothers, sisters, relatives, friends etc.
  
• 5. None of us knows if he is a truthful pious person or not.
  
• 6. He is not a direct son of Imam Mehdi a.s. He laims to be 6^th in line but produces no evidence for it.
  
• 7. His so called books (more like booklets) have very low standard of writing compared to any good writer, leave alone masoomen.
  
• 8. He claims to have ilm e ladunni and a masoom like imam Ali a.s But when I repeatedly send him questions, he fails to answer the.
  

If you read above, I asked some questions that a Masoom with ilm e ladunni can answer. Following is the story of these challenges so far:

Mr. Ahmad al Hassan claims that since he scholars are scared of confronting him and answering his questions, but he himself shies away from answering very simple questions. I posted the two challenges in this forum on 26^th August (read above).

The same day, his Ansar, brother Ahmad very kindly gave me a link and asked me to send my challenges/ questions to him. I sent these to Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan on same day. No reply came.

On 27^th August, I resent the request.

On 7^th September, I post a reminder.

On 8^th September, sister Green Lantern wrote that

“That Ahmad al Hassan isn’t a member of Shiachat.”.

I replied to her the same day:

“But his Ansars are. Moreover, he is supposed to have ilm e ladunni. And I have mailed it to the contact of www.the-savior.com almost 2 weeks ago. So I continue to wait. The question remains that when he accuses Ayatollah Seestani and other fallible scholars of running away from his questions and not accepting his challenge, why is he doing the same here??? And if he cannot know about this matter, can you or any of his Ansars not get him to answer the questions and meet the two challenges that I very respectfully posted above. Please Ansars of Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, pass these questions to him and help me and other members of this forum to find out if he is a true Mehdi and Yamani, so we accept his bay'at and have faith on him, or he is not, in which case all the Ansars should return back to mainstream shia Isalm.”

When will he respond to us????

The waiting continues. You tell me what to make of it.

Wassalam

Abu_Zar

[Abu_zar]

Can someone tell me in easy language some of the objections against Ahmedul Hasan.

Please read my postings above. Some of the basic concerns about Mr. Ahmad al Hassan are:

1. None of us has seen him, or has met anyone who has seen him.
   
2. His very existence is doubtful.
   
3. He claims to be a civil engineer but refuses to tell the year and institution of graduation so that his degree, and if present, his grades can be confirmed.
   
4. He refuses to reveal his parents, brothers, sisters, relatives, friends etc.
   
5. None of us knows if he is a truthful pious person or not.
   
6. He is not a direct son of Imam Mehdi a.s. He laims to be 6^th in line but produces no evidence for it.
   
7. His so called books (more like booklets) have very low standard of writing compared to any good writer, leave alone masoomen.
   
8. He claims to have ilm e ladunni and a masoom like imam Ali a.s But when I repeatedly send him questions, he fails to answer the.
   

The story of challenges so far:

Mr. Ahmad al Hassan claims that since he scholars are scared of confronting him and answering his questions, but he himself shies away from answering very simple questions. I posted the two challenges in this forum on 26^th August (read above). The same day, his Ansar, brother Ahmad very kindly gave me a link and asked me to send my challenges/ questions to him. I sent thes to Mr. Ahmad Al Hassan on same day. No reply came. On 27^th August, I resent the request. On 7^th September, I post a reminder. On 8^th September, you wrote “That Ahmad al Hassan isn’t a member of Shiachat”. The same day I mentioned that I have sent him an email on address kindly provided by his Ansar, brother Ahmad.

On 8^th September, sister Green Lantern wrote that

“That Ahmad al Hassan isn’t a member of Shiachat.”.

I replied to her the same day:

“But his Ansars are. Moreover, he is supposed to have ilm e ladunni. And I have mailed it to the contact of www.the-savior.com almost 2 weeks ago. So I continue to wait. The question remains that when he accuses Ayatollah Seestani and other fallible scholars of running away from his questions and not accepting his challenge, why is he doing the same here??? And if he cannot know about this matter, can you or any of his Ansars not get him to answer the questions and meet the two challenges that I very respectfully posted above. Please Ansars of Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, pass these questions to him and help me and other members of this forum to find out if he is a true Mehdi and Yamani, so we accept his bay'at and have faith on him, or he is not, in which case all the Ansars should return back to mainstream shia Isalm.”

When will he respond to us, and what do we conclude from his inability to answer promptly??? :no:

Abu_zar

[14infallibles]

(salam)

Abu_zar Jazakallah you have established it beyond doubt.

I liked the way you did it because you did not initially start your questions in the "I'm right and Im showing you why you're wrong" attitude.. You spoke to Mr. Ahmad's ansar with the possibility that they can be right and you are simply asking to be guided to their path.

The fact that they have not adequately answered your questions, and the 313Ahmad guy didn't even get back to answering one of your earlier posts, shows quite clearly the truth.

It is quite unfortunate ... these ansar have great akhlaq but they are not able to prove their deviant aqeeda :(

[Abu_zar]

(salam)

Abu_zar Jazakallah you have established it beyond doubt.

I liked the way you did it because you did not initially start your questions in the "I'm right and Im showing you why you're wrong" attitude.. You spoke to Mr. Ahmad's ansar with the possibility that they can be right and you are simply asking to be guided to their path.

The fact that they have not adequately answered your questions, and the 313Ahmad guy didn't even get back to answering one of your earlier posts, shows quite clearly the truth.

It is quite unfortunate ... these ansar have great akhlaq but they are not able to prove their deviant aqeeda :(

Dear 14infallibles,

There are two issues here.

One is if Mr. Ahmad al Hassan is rightful Yamani and Mehdi at the same time or not.

Second, who is he hurting and who is he helping.

We have talked about first issue. Now the Ansars can easily say that at the day of judgement, even if they (Ansars) are wrong, they will pledge that they were honest and sincere and simply did not have enough wisdom. Hence they made a mistake. Sorry, no harm done and no hard feelings.

But it is not that simple. That brings us to first part of second issue.

Who is he hurting?

He is hurting shia nation from many angles. The strength of a nation is broken if someone:

1. Damages its ideologies (he is damaging the concept of infallibility, taqleed, merjaiyat, Wali e faqih).
   
2. Damages its leadership (he has blamed every living ayatollah e uzma).
   
3. Damages its centralisation and unity. (The nation was behind the leadership of marajay. He has accused them calling them non-practicing scholars etc.).
   
4. Damages its financial resources. (Khums has been used to look after the interest of shiite islam. He has attacked it implanting doubts in people's mind so they do not pay khums to a central authority).
   

Now 2nd part of 2nd issue- who is he benefitting?

The terrible dictators of the world, aal e saood, the Kuwaiti, UAE, Al Khalifa and Yemenese President are deeply disliked by their countrymen. Hence when the world supports the demand that they must establish their legitimacy by going to their people and asking if the people support their government, these people, who are responsible for demolishing the Junnat ul Baqi, and killing of Bahraini & Yemenese brothers and raping of Bahraini sisters, find themselves in deep deep trouble.

Guess who comes to their rescue? Mr. Ahmad al Hassan and his Ansars.

Mr. Ahmad al Hassan has not written any book against Israel. He has not written any book against Aal e Saood. He has not written any book against killing of shia brothers in Bahrain & Yemen or against raping of shia sisters in these countries. However, he finds time to attack the looming threat to these middle eastern emperors and criminals, in his book "For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People".

Why he decides to protect these enemies of Hazrat Fatima a.s, 4 imams, shia brothers and sisters is something very obvious. And my dear brother Ahmad and sister Green Lantern and all those Ansars who think they will escape easily at the day of judgement, please think again.

By supporting Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, you are not only siding with someone supporting demolishing of Jannatul Baqi and killing of shia brothers & sisters, you are actually going to be responsible for more heinous acts of these kings who intend to demolish the roza of Holy Prophet and wipe away shia religion from the face of the earth.

Abu_zar

[ummekulsoom]

who is he benefitting?

The terrible dictators of the world, aal e saood, the Kuwaiti, UAE, Al Khalifa and Yemenese President are deeply disliked by their countrymen. Hence when the world supports the demand that they must establish their legitimacy by going to their people and asking if the people support their government, these people, who are responsible for demolishing the Junnat ul Baqi, and killing of Bahraini & Yemenese brothers and raping of Bahraini sisters, find themselves in deep deep trouble.

Guess who comes to their rescue? Mr. Ahmad al Hassan and his Ansars.

Mr. Ahmad al Hassan has not written any book against Israel. He has not written any book against Aal e Saood. He has not written any book against killing of shia brothers in Bahrain & Yemen or against raping of shia sisters in these countries. However, he finds time to attack the looming threat to these middle eastern emperors and criminals, in his book "For the Supremacy of God and not the Supremacy of People".

Why he decides to protect these enemies of Hazrat Fatima a.s, 4 imams, shia brothers and sisters is something very obvious. And my dear brother Ahmad and sister Green Lantern and all those Ansars who think they will escape easily at the day of judgement, please think again.

By supporting Mr. Ahmad al Hassan, you are not only siding with someone supporting demolishing of Jannatul Baqi and killing of shia brothers & sisters, you are actually going to be responsible for more heinous acts of these kings who intend to demolish the roza of Holy Prophet and wipe away shia religion from the face of the earth.

Abu_zar

This is a very serious and most horrible scenario.

How can anyone who considers himself or herself shia, render support to the people and participate (even indirectly) in the act of demolishing the shrines of infallibles and killing and raping of fellow shiites?

It appears that a mistake in the path of faith can have unseen devastating implications.

Allah's curse on Saudi and Bahraini governments and their perpetrators.