Jump to content
In the Name of God بسم الله

Who Is Ahmad Al Hassan?


Orion

Recommended Posts

  • Advanced Member

Simple question;

Can any of you bring a hadith with all the Imams (as) named one after the other in one hadith?

Since many of you are denying the clear proofs we have given, even though many- many evidences have been given from authentic sources- why don't you prove to us rationally the signs and proofs of a Hujjah and the rightful claimant, prove this if you are truthful...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Simple question;

Can any of you bring a hadith with all the Imams (as) named one after the other in one hadith?

Since many of you are denying the clear proofs we have given, even though many- many evidences have been given from authentic sources- why don't you prove to us rationally the signs and proofs of a Hujjah and the rightful claimant, prove this if you are truthful...

I'm surprised, even the "outspoken" mdm cannot respond, maybe because of limited understanding of the topic..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

read this, oh you jahil ansar of the engineer imam

Sheikh Sulayman Balkhi Hanafi in his Yanabiu'l-Mawadda, ch.76, reports from Fara'idu's-Simtain of Hamwaini, who reports from Mujahid, who reports from Ibn Abbas, that:

a Jew named Na'thal came to the Holy Prophet and asked him questions about Tawhid (Unity of Allah). The Holy Prophet answered his questions and the Jew embraced Islam. Then he said: "O Holy Prophet, every prophet had a wasi (vicegerent). Our Prophet, Moses Bin Imran, made a will for Yusha Bin Nun. Please tell me who is your wasi?" The Holy Prophet said: "My vicegerent is Ali Bin Abi Talib; after him are Hasan, and Husain and after them are nine Imams, who are the successive descendants of Husain."

Na'thal asked the Holy Prophet the names of those Imams. The Holy Prophet said: "After Husain, his son, Ali, will be the Imam; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Ja'far; after him his son Musa; after him his son, Ali; after him his son, Muhammad; after him his son, Hasan; after him his son, Muhammad Mahdi will be the last Imam. There will be twelve Imams."

In addition to the names of the nine Imams, this hadith further states that each would succeed as Imam after his father. Na'thal made further inquiries, and the Holy Prophet described the manner of death of each Imam.

Then Na'thal said, "I bear witness that there is no god but Allah and that you are His Holy Prophet. I bear witness that these twelve holy Imams are your vicegerents after you. What you have said is exactly what is recorded in our books and in the will of Moses."

Then the Holy Prophet said: "Paradise is for him who loves them and obeys them, and Hell is for him who is hostile to them and opposes them."

Na'thal then recited some couplets to the effect that "May Allah, the Exalted, shower His blessings upon you, chosen Prophet and pride of the Bani Hashim. Allah has guided us by means of you and the twelve holy men whom you have named. Certainly Allah has purified them and preserved them from impurity. He who loves them is successful. He who hates them is the loser. The last of the Imams will quench the thirst of the thirsty. He is the one the people will wait for. Prophet of Allah, your progeny is a blessing for me and for all the believers. Those who turn away from them will soon be thrown into Hell."

so you want more hadith?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

have you lost your mind?

It's amazing how the "flag bearers" of ShiaChat cannot even bring proofs on the rightful claimant and Imam Mahdi (as), shows how ineffective Taqleed has become in this age.

35. Fatir

no burdened soul can bear another's burden, and if one heavy laden crieth for (help with) his load, naught of it will be lifted even though he (unto whom he crieth) be of kin. Thou warnest only those who fear their Lord in secret, and have established worship. He who groweth (in goodness), groweth only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying. (18) The blind man is not equal with the seer; (19)

Hence why Taqleed cannot be excused due to you "not knowing" when we are living in age where information is available at the click of a button.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

It's amazing how the "flag bearers" of ShiaChat cannot even bring proofs on the rightful claimant and Imam Mahdi (as), shows how ineffective Taqleed has become in this age.

35. Fatir

no burdened soul can bear another's burden, and if one heavy laden crieth for (help with) his load, naught of it will be lifted even though he (unto whom he crieth) be of kin. Thou warnest only those who fear their Lord in secret, and have established worship. He who groweth (in goodness), groweth only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying. (18) The blind man is not equal with the seer; (19)

Hence why Taqleed cannot be excused due to you "not knowing" when we are living in age where information is available at the click of a button.

(bismillah)

taqleed does not promote that our sins will be forgiven due to us doing this action.

that ayat has a exception, when imam mahdi as comes and fights the decendants of the evil ones of the past and will kill them, we curse the decendants of these men, yet it states no man can carry the burden of another, thus you will say this is not true. however if the decendants are proud of their forefathers actions they are the same as the ones who commited the crime, thus i say with my heart curse be on the killers and hurters of our imams and their decendants and curse be upon those who are false and are liars.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

taqleed does not promote that our sins will be forgiven due to us doing this action.

that ayat has a exception, when imam mahdi as comes and fights the decendants of the evil ones of the past and will kill them, we curse the decendants of these men, yet it states no man can carry the burden of another, thus you will say this is not true. however if the decendants are proud of their forefathers actions they are the same as the ones who commited the crime, thus i say with my heart curse be on the killers and hurters of our imams and their decendants and curse be upon those who are false and are liars.

Enmity has nothing to do with Religious affairs of Faith, as Faith is something everyone will be questioned on individually.

Simple reply;

Surah 33

(64) Lo! Allah hath cursed the disbelievers, and hath prepared for them a flaming fire,

(65) Wherein they will abide for ever. They will find (then) no protecting friend nor helper.

(66) On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they say: Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and had obeyed His messenger!

(67) And they say: Our Lord! Lo! we obeyed our princes and great men, and they misled us from the Way.

(68) Our Lord! Oh, give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse

Allah (swt) clearly will question and punish anyone following blindly, especially in religion.

Imam Al-Saadiq a.s says:"Becareful of Taqleed(copying scholars)

for whoever copies someone in his religion has perished for Allah

says in the Quran"They took their Rabbis and monks as Lords

without Allah"By Allah they haven't prayed for them neither did

they fast for them, but they made halal what is haram and made

haram for what is halal, so they copied them in this manner,

and so they worshipped them without even realizing.

Sheikh Al-Kulayni Kafi v.1 p.53

Hadith is clear and bright as the shining sun.

Imam Al-Baaqer a.s "If the Qa'em emerges he shall aproach to Kufa

and so then a few thousands will emerge out of it claiming that

he has no son, with them are weapons, and they will say, return

from where you came we do not need your help with sons of Fatima,

and so he shall take to them the sword until he reaches the last

one of them, and then he shall enter Kufa and will kill in there

every misguided hypocrite, and will destroy their palaces,and

will kill the fighters until Allah swt is pleased" Irshad Al-Mufeed v.2 p.384

Clearly the Scholars will reject him, and many scholars rejected, scholars like sistani have even given fatwahs to kill Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (as).

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O

Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the

people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the

face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy

and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have

our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough

of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God

in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and

they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-

Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

This can be seen all around us today, as we know in Iraq the "scholars" are heavily in politics and among other things...

Prophet of Allah pbuh:"The Calamity upon

Calamity for my nation from the Big Shoora(consultation)

and the Small Shoora.So they asked about it

and he said:"The Big Shoora will begin to my

nation after my death for the usurption and

forcing my brother(Ali)and the rights of my

daughter, and for the Small Shoora it shall

happen in the long occultation in Zawra(Baghdad),

to alter my Sunna and alter my principles-

Manaqib AlItra-Mi'atain Wa Khamseen Alama p.130

This hadith is also self-explanatory.

Some may say, ok but we don't have enough knowledge so what do we do?

The criteria is very simple,

1) who do we follow in all ages? the Vicegerent of Allah سبحانه وتعالى,

2) ok how do we distinguish the vicegerents from the false? well that's simple because they always come with proofs,

3) so why do many reject? this is because many are going to be misguided as the Prophet (pbuh) said there will be 73 sects and only one will be in Heaven and rightly Guided,

4) so what is this Guided sect? the one that follows the Hujjah of their time and spreads their call, as Allah (swt) say's;

3:81-82

When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you. (81) Then whosoever after this shall turn away: they will be miscreants. (82)

Surah 72: 26-28

(He is) the Knower of the Unseen, and He revealeth unto none His secret, (26) Save unto every messenger whom He hath chosen, and then He maketh a guard to go before him and a guard behind him (27) That He may know that they have indeed conveyed the messages of their Lord. He surroundeth all their doings, and He keepeth count of all things. (28)

Edited by YamaniAhlulBayt313
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

It's amazing how the "flag bearers" of ShiaChat cannot even bring proofs on the rightful claimant and Imam Mahdi (as), shows how ineffective Taqleed has become in this age.

35. Fatir

no burdened soul can bear another's burden, and if one heavy laden crieth for (help with) his load, naught of it will be lifted even though he (unto whom he crieth) be of kin. Thou warnest only those who fear their Lord in secret, and have established worship. He who groweth (in goodness), groweth only for himself, (he cannot by his merit redeem others). Unto Allah is the journeying. (18) The blind man is not equal with the seer; (19)

Hence why Taqleed cannot be excused due to you "not knowing" when we are living in age where information is available at the click of a button.

read post #677, dipsh!t.

please explain how ahmad gheeta is imam mahdi (as) grandson. did his grandmother sleep with imam mahdi (atf) and have a baby through the union?

Edited by Maula Dha Mallang
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Enmity has nothing to do with Religious affairs of Faith, as Faith is something everyone will be questioned on individually.

Simple reply;

Surah 33

(64) Lo! Allah hath cursed the disbelievers, and hath prepared for them a flaming fire,

(65) Wherein they will abide for ever. They will find (then) no protecting friend nor helper.

(66) On the day when their faces are turned over in the Fire, they say: Oh, would that we had obeyed Allah and had obeyed His messenger!

(67) And they say: Our Lord! Lo! we obeyed our princes and great men, and they misled us from the Way.

(68) Our Lord! Oh, give them double torment and curse them with a mighty curse

Allah (swt) clearly will question and punish anyone following blindly, especially in religion.

Imam Al-Saadiq a.s says:"Becareful of Taqleed(copying scholars)

for whoever copies someone in his religion has perished for Allah

says in the Quran"They took their Rabbis and monks as Lords

without Allah"By Allah they haven't prayed for them neither did

they fast for them, but they made halal what is haram and made

haram for what is halal, so they copied them in this manner,

and so they worshipped them without even realizing.

Sheikh Al-Kulayni Kafi v.1 p.53

Hadith is clear and bright as the shining sun.

Imam Al-Baaqer a.s "If the Qa'em emerges he shall aproach to Kufa

and so then a few thousands will emerge out of it claiming that

he has no son, with them are weapons, and they will say, return

from where you came we do not need your help with sons of Fatima,

and so he shall take to them the sword until he reaches the last

one of them, and then he shall enter Kufa and will kill in there

every misguided hypocrite, and will destroy their palaces,and

will kill the fighters until Allah swt is pleased" Irshad Al-Mufeed v.2 p.384

Clearly the Scholars will reject him, and many scholars rejected, scholars like sistani have even given fatwahs to kill Imam Ahmad Al-Hassan (as).

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O

Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the

people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the

face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy

and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have

our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough

of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God

in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and

they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-

Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

This can be seen all around us today, as we know in Iraq the "scholars" are heavily in politics and among other things...

Prophet of Allah pbuh:"The Calamity upon

Calamity for my nation from the Big Shoora(consultation)

and the Small Shoora.So they asked about it

and he said:"The Big Shoora will begin to my

nation after my death for the usurption and

forcing my brother(Ali)and the rights of my

daughter, and for the Small Shoora it shall

happen in the long occultation in Zawra(Baghdad),

to alter my Sunna and alter my principles-

Manaqib AlItra-Mi'atain Wa Khamseen Alama p.130

This hadith is also self-explanatory.

Some may say, ok but we don't have enough knowledge so what do we do?

The criteria is very simple,

1) who do we follow in all ages? the Vicegerent of Allah سبحانه وتعالى,

2) ok how do we distinguish the vicegerents from the false? well that's simple because they always come with proofs,

3) so why do many reject? this is because many are going to be misguided as the Prophet (pbuh) said there will be 73 sects and only one will be in Heaven and rightly Guided,

4) so what is this Guided sect? the one that follows the Hujjah of their time and spreads their call, as Allah (swt) say's;

3:81-82

When Allah made (His) covenant with the prophets, (He said): Behold that which I have given you of the Scripture and knowledge. And afterward there will come unto you a messenger, confirming that which ye possess. Ye shall believe in him and ye shall help him. He said: Do ye agree, and will ye take up My burden (which I lay upon you) in this (matter)? They answered: We agree. He said: Then bear ye witness. I will be a witness with you. (81) Then whosoever after this shall turn away: they will be miscreants. (82)

Surah 72: 26-28

(He is) the Knower of the Unseen, and He revealeth unto none His secret, (26) Save unto every messenger whom He hath chosen, and then He maketh a guard to go before him and a guard behind him (27) That He may know that they have indeed conveyed the messages of their Lord. He surroundeth all their doings, and He keepeth count of all things. (28)

(bismillah)

your posts have nothing to do with scholars, they are aimed at non believers, and men who are hypocrites. our scholars are neither, once again you climb out of the obvious, do i have to keep posting the same thing again and again? our scholars are lovers of the ahlulbayt, they pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as, they love rasoolulah, they are slaves of Allah sbwt, they do more for islam than ahmad, the fake the fraud, they are truthful, they do not lead man kind away from islam, yet bring them closer to it. they are role models, they guide you to the true message of islam, they unite the lovers of ahlulbayt, they mourn imam hussein as, they are muslims. answer my claims through quran not hadith. the iyahs i posted are on the scholars, the truthful knowledgeable men, you try and bring other iyahs to condratict mine? quran has no contradiction thus the iyahs you are using have no relevance to the ones i put forth.

(bismillah)

as a conclusion my brothers, i think it has become aparent that these ansars who criticise lovers of ahlulbayt, they mock the believers, they claim which is unclaimable, they bring forth ridiculous aruguments, my advice to them, follow the quran, follow the truth. follow the rightful path. pray that we are all guided to the true message, pray that imam mahdi as returns quickly. pray that we can better our selves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

read post #677, dipsh!t.

Learn some manners, is this how the scholars told you to behave? well it's not what Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or the Ahlulbayt (as) have told you to behave, you are definitely not acting like one who is a True "Shia". Learn some basic manners and then come here to preach Islam.

(bismillah)

your posts have nothing to do with scholars, they are aimed at non believers, and men who are hypocrites. our scholars are neither, once again you climb out of the obvious, do i have to keep posting the same thing again and again? our scholars are lovers of the ahlulbayt, they pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as, they love rasoolulah, they are slaves of Allah sbwt, they do more for islam than ahmad, the fake the fraud, they are truthful, they do not lead man kind away from islam, yet bring them closer to it. they are role models, they guide you to the true message of islam, they unite the lovers of ahlulbayt, they mourn imam hussein as, they are muslims. answer my claims through quran not hadith. the iyahs i posted are on the scholars, the truthful knowledgeable men, you try and bring other iyahs to condratict mine? quran has no contradiction thus the iyahs you are using have no relevance to the ones i put forth.

(bismillah)

as a conclusion my brothers, i think it has become aparent that these ansars who criticise lovers of ahlulbayt, they mock the believers, they claim which is unclaimable, they bring forth ridiculous aruguments, my advice to them, follow the quran, follow the truth. follow the rightful path. pray that we are all guided to the true message, pray that imam mahdi as returns quickly. pray that we can better our selves.

It has everything to do with scholars "whom" you love so blindly- that you have been blinded from the truth, and ironically the truth is starring you right in the face, yet you still deny, the ample evidences are enough for rational thinking minds, however those whom roll-over on command will just "follow orders" because it's easier for them, as many of the "followers" have become sheep.

No one is "criticizing" lovers of Ahlulbayt (as), as that would mean we are criticizing ourselves as well which is moronic to the highest degree, even to the standard of the Taqleedis.

The call so far can be summed down as followers, the rightful claimant has arrived and the proofs have been given to a high degree, if you want to walk around and act like you have not heard it or don't care etc, you will always have a voice in your head saying, what if this what they say is true? then why not save yourself now and find the truth with a sincere heart? why is that so hard for many of you? By Allah! you all will be questioned Individually!, have you no sense??!!

Edited by YamaniAhlulBayt313
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Yes very serious, only those blind in faith and reason and whose hearts are corrupted will reject the Hujjah of their time, it is really that simple!

Look now they are claiming that Ahmad Al-Hassan is Hujjah of our time :lol:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Look now they are claiming that Ahmad Al-Hassan is Hujjah of our time :lol:

Do you people not call your scholars hujjah? Imam Ahmad(as) is the Yamani(as) which would qualify him to be a hujjah. You people arent even sure if your scholars are hujjahs or not yet you still call them that. Hypocrisy is quite evident now, and after coming into the call of Imam Ahmad(as) I can see truly what the masses in the shia community are following, and how they deny hadiths when it is presented to them. It is honestly sad that you people put your scholars before Ahlul Bayt(As) and are ignoring the hadiths about how evil the scholars will be. Keep laughing as Imam Sadiq(as) said laughter is the fruit of fools.

Anyways, you have not been able to show us any other will. This would mean that this will that we have provided you is the only one that the prophet(sawa) has left us. Are you still going to deny it?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Do you people not call your scholars hujjah? Imam Ahmad(as) is the Yamani(as) which would qualify him to be a hujjah. You people arent even sure if your scholars are hujjahs or not yet you still call them that. Hypocrisy is quite evident now, and after coming into the call of Imam Ahmad(as) I can see truly what the masses in the shia community are following, and how they deny hadiths when it is presented to them. It is honestly sad that you people put your scholars before Ahlul Bayt(As) and are ignoring the hadiths about how evil the scholars will be. Keep laughing as Imam Sadiq(as) said laughter is the fruit of fools.

Anyways, you have not been able to show us any other will. This would mean that this will that we have provided you is the only one that the prophet(sawa) has left us. Are you still going to deny it?

I have never heard someone to call scholars "hujjah" however... One thing is to call someone "Hujjah" other thing is to call someone "Hujjah of our time" the one that denies sahih hadith is you and of course we will deny your da'if hadith + some of them are mistranslated and misinterpreted.. I have already showed sahih will of Prophet (pbuh) ;)

Edited by Rasul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

ok lets talk with good akhlaaq then.

you made three claims.

you said that there is no hadith where the prophet (pbuh) named all 12 imams by name, but he did name ahmad gheeta in tge will, i.e. the prophet obviously thought naming ahmad gheeta was more important in naming the 12 imams.

you also claim that he is the grandson of imam mahdi (atf). not in the sense that sayyeds are grandsons of one of the masumeen, but as in his father was literally the son of imam mahdi.

finally you are so jahil you do not even know what the raj'ah is, even though that is the most basic knowledge of the end times. instead you pathetically try to prove that he is the first mahdi after imam mahdi - even though imam mahdi is still alive.

i showed you hadith where he DID mention all 12, in fact there are multiple hadith and it only the jahaliyat or the ansar (or the lies) do not know about them.

i also repeatedly asked what is the proof that his father was the son of the awaited imam. which you ignored.

you do not respond about the rajah.

now answer my points.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

I have never heard someone to call scholars "hujjah" however... One thing is to call someone "Hujjah" other thing is to call someone "Hujjah of our time" the one that denies sahih hadith is you and of course we will deny your da'if hadith + some of them are mistranslated and misinterpreted.. I have already showed sahih will of Prophet (pbuh) ;)

ahh, it seems like you are starting to not make any sense. Now the Hujjah of our time is Imam Al Mahdi(as) and also Imam Ahmad(as) what is so wrong with that? can you prove from a hadith that there cannot be two hujjahs at once?

Now you have made two excuses to deny 12 Mahdis, the first one that the will is weak, and the second one that it has been mistranslated.

Now excuse one, What makes you say this will is weak? can you bring me proof and show me how this will is weak? Because from what I have seen the chain of narrators is correct, no flaws. Its been graded good by the classical scholars, as well as the contemporary. So please bring proof for it being weak.

Also the mistranslation that you are some how seeing, why dont you go to the book where the will is translate it your self and post it here, and then we'll see what mistranslations there are.

Yeah you showed us the will that doesnt even tell us its a will and that isnt even written on the death bed. I dont think you fully comprehend what a will is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

ok lets talk with good akhlaaq then.

you made three claims.

you said that there is no hadith where the prophet (pbuh) named all 12 imams by name, but he did name ahmad gheeta in tge will, i.e. the prophet obviously thought naming ahmad gheeta was more important in naming the 12 imams.

you also claim that he is the grandson of imam mahdi (atf). not in the sense that sayyeds are grandsons of one of the masumeen, but as in his father was literally the son of imam mahdi.

finally you are so jahil you do not even know what the raj'ah is, even though that is the most basic knowledge of the end times. instead you pathetically try to prove that he is the first mahdi after imam mahdi - even though imam mahdi is still alive.

i showed you hadith where he DID mention all 12, in fact there are multiple hadith and it only the jahaliyat or the ansar (or the lies) do not know about them.

i also repeatedly asked what is the proof that his father was the son of the awaited imam. which you ignored.

you do not respond about the rajah.

now answer my points.

So yes there are hadith, and there is this one too and a number of others which mentions 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis. Whats wrong with that? All the Imams(as) are mentioned in the will as well.

First of all maybe you misunderstood me, or I made an error. Imam Ahmad(as) is great great great great grandson. We have his family tree to prove it. Now if you want to see it, just ask. Like i believe between Imam Ahmad and Imam Al Mahdi(as) there are atleast 5 people in the generation, not sure Ill have to double check. But we do have the family tree and if you want to see, Ill show it to you.

We never denied the concept of Rajah. The Rajah will happen of course. How does the Rajah contradict this belief? Show me how the concept of 12 Mahdis contradicts the rajah? because looking at the narrations it says after the 12 imams there will be 12 mahdis.

So hopefully this clears out everything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

For those who deny istikkhara:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp7z1VoJ0n8

We have been warned of being banned. This goes ahead to show you all that you are just like the people that you follow, you are not capable of proving your self through the Quran or Ahlul Bayt. While we have proved our selves using both of them. Come to the truth people, stop following misguided individuals. Taqleed is Haram, which has no basis in the Quran or with Ahlul Bayt(as).

But again we understand that you are all not capable of having a dialogue at all, because the methods you follow are corrupt. And anything that is corrupt will never be close to the truth. The truth will always overcome.

May The Blessing of Allah be on Muhammed and on the Progeny of Muhammed The Imams and Mahdis

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

So yes there are hadith, and there is this one too and a number of others which mentions 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis. Whats wrong with that? All the Imams(as) are mentioned in the will as well.

First of all maybe you misunderstood me, or I made an error. Imam Ahmad(as) is great great great great grandson. We have his family tree to prove it. Now if you want to see it, just ask. Like i believe between Imam Ahmad and Imam Al Mahdi(as) there are atleast 5 people in the generation, not sure Ill have to double check. But we do have the family tree and if you want to see, Ill show it to you.

We never denied the concept of Rajah. The Rajah will happen of course. How does the Rajah contradict this belief? Show me how the concept of 12 Mahdis contradicts the rajah? because looking at the narrations it says after the 12 imams there will be 12 mahdis.

So hopefully this clears out everything.

lets take this slowly and calmly.

PART 1 - THE ENGINEER FROM BASRA, OR THE RETURN OF THE IMAMS?

- we agree that the raj'ah is real, and will happen

- we agree that all masumeen will return to earth after the shahadat of the awaited imam (atf)

- we agree that all masumeen were the mahdi (divinely sent leaders sent to save humanity)

- we agree that "after" does not mean "before"

are we in agreement, yes or no?

the first time that the imams were sent to earth, their role was as the imam to protect the faith, invite and guide people to islam.

when they return, their role will be as the mahdis, and a key part of their return is to seek vengence.

do we agree with this? yes or no?

the hadith says after the mahdi, there will be 12 mahdis.

according to common sense, this surely means that after the awaited imam passes away, there will be 12 mahdis after him,

we agree that our current imam is imam mahdi

we agree that the awaited imam is alive

we agree that the awaited imams zahoor has not occured yet

we agree that he is waiting for the command from his lord to rise.

if you say "after imam mahdi there will be 12 mahdis, ahmad gheeta is the first of the 12 mahdis", yet how is this possible if imam mahdi is still alive?

and how can it refer to ahmad gheeta, if it is obviously referring to the raj'ah, i.e. after imam mahdi (atf) shahadat, all 11 imams before him and the prophet will return and be mahdis of their time one last time.

PART TWO - THE GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GREAT GRANDSON OF THE AWAITED IMAM

the proof that he is the great (X5) grandson of the awaited imam is a family tree?

you dont think its possible that his great great great great grandmother had an affair/ illicit sex with someone, and when questioned, she said "imam mahdi impregnated me" in order to escape punishment?

final thoughts: an imam sent by Allah is only an imam if he never needs to be taught anything by anyone.

someone who had to attend hawza to learn about the islam he is meant to be an imam of, and university for engineering, is no imam. may Allah curse those who make equals to our imams (as)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Learn some manners, is this how the scholars told you to behave? well it's not what Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) or the Ahlulbayt (as) have told you to behave, you are definitely not acting like one who is a True "Shia". Learn some basic manners and then come here to preach Islam.

It has everything to do with scholars "whom" you love so blindly- that you have been blinded from the truth, and ironically the truth is starring you right in the face, yet you still deny, the ample evidences are enough for rational thinking minds, however those whom roll-over on command will just "follow orders" because it's easier for them, as many of the "followers" have become sheep.

No one is "criticizing" lovers of Ahlulbayt (as), as that would mean we are criticizing ourselves as well which is moronic to the highest degree, even to the standard of the Taqleedis.

The call so far can be summed down as followers, the rightful claimant has arrived and the proofs have been given to a high degree, if you want to walk around and act like you have not heard it or don't care etc, you will always have a voice in your head saying, what if this what they say is true? then why not save yourself now and find the truth with a sincere heart? why is that so hard for many of you? By Allah! you all will be questioned Individually!, have you no sense??!!

(bismillah)

this actually made me laugh brother, firstly give me a time when a grand ayatullah, has given a fatwa, that has gone against the quran. NAME ME ONE.

now secondly we do not love them so much that we have been blinded by the truth. they give fatwas and ruling from the quran, and the teachings of ahlulbayt as. now secondly i was arguing against this man before taqleed and views of the scholars even came in the equation? so how has me doing taqleed and following a marja blinded me from the truth? and in what way have they blinded us? give me examples.

now to your next point:

"No one is "criticizing" lovers of Ahlulbayt (as), as that would mean we are criticizing ourselves as well which is moronic to the highest degree, even to the standard of the Taqleedis."

well clearly you are criticizing lovers of the ahlulbayt as. you are calling the ones who love the ahlulbayt as liers and kafirs, you are saying whoever rejects ahmad. rejects the wilayat of imam ali as. i reject ahmad, so yes you are criticising the lovers of the ahlulbayt, now before you trap your self even further, with this statement are you saying that me, my family, followers of all the marjas, the marja them selves, lovers of the ahlulbayt as who do not do taqleed but reject ahmad, all do not love the ahlubayt as? but just you and followers of ahmad are the lovers of the ahlulbayt as?

that voice you are talking about, is actually the voice you might start hearing very soon. in the opposite way, am i really positive this man is who he claims to be? as for me my mind is clear, and i reject this man. simple. there is no voice in my head at all suggesting that he could be who he claims to be.

oh another point, this man, who DID spend time studying, a MAN who claims to have knowledge of the unseen, ilm e ghayb etc etc, a man who has been sent guided by Allah sbwt, still found the need to go study at a place he thinks is inhabitated by a bunch of kafirs/liers/non believers?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

ahh, it seems like you are starting to not make any sense. Now the Hujjah of our time is Imam Al Mahdi(as) and also Imam Ahmad(as) what is so wrong with that? can you prove from a hadith that there cannot be two hujjahs at once?

The one that does not make any sense is you ansar :lol:

Narrated to us Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Masroor: Narrated to us Husain bin Muhammad bin Aamir from Moalla bin Muhammad Basri from Ja’far bin Sulaiman from Abdullah bin Hakam from his father from Saeed bin Jubair from Abdullah bin Abbas that he said: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) said:

Indeed, my caliphs and legatees and the divine proofs over the creatures after me shall be twelve. The first of whom is my brother and the last is my son. He was asked: O Messenger of Allah, who is your brother? He replied: Ali Ibne Abi Talib. Then he was asked: Who is your son? The very Mahdi who will fill the earth with justice and equity just as it would be fraught with injustice and oppression. By the One Who sent me as the giver of glad tidings even if a day remains from the tenure of the world, the Almighty Allah would definitely prolong that day to such an extent that he reappears in it. At that time Isa bin Maryam, the spirit of Allah will descend and pray behind him. And the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and his kingdom and power will stretch to the east and the west of the earth.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 24, page 286 Hadith Number 27 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Now you have made two excuses to deny 12 Mahdis, the first one that the will is weak, and the second one that it has been mistranslated.

Now excuse one, What makes you say this will is weak? can you bring me proof and show me how this will is weak? Because from what I have seen the chain of narrators is correct, no flaws. Its been graded good by the classical scholars, as well as the contemporary. So please bring proof for it being weak.

I wasn't talking about the "will hadith that you guys posted here" however matn of that hadith is very very weak and goes against many Sahih Hadith and also it goes against your faith ;)

Also the mistranslation that you are some how seeing, why dont you go to the book where the will is translate it your self and post it here, and then we'll see what mistranslations there are.

should I show you how you guys mistranslated a Hadith? :)

Yeah you showed us the will that doesnt even tell us its a will and that isnt even written on the death bed. I dont think you fully comprehend what a will is.

One does not need to write his "will"- on the death bed :lol:

I have already explained: post nr #663

Edited by Rasul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

One does not need to write his "will"- on the death bed :lol:

I have already explained: post nr #663

the ansar of ahmad gheeta are so ignorant it is mind boggling.

a will = splitting of your wealth to wives, oppsring etc.

a letter of guidance = something different to a will.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

the ansar of ahmad gheeta are so ignorant it is mind boggling.

a will = splitting of your wealth to wives, oppsring etc.

a letter of guidance = something different to a will.

True said brother :)

soon I will (inshAllah) post hadiths that will totally expose Ahmad Al-Hassan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

The one that does not make any sense is you ansar :lol:

Narrated to us Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Masroor: Narrated to us Husain bin Muhammad bin Aamir from Moalla bin Muhammad Basri from Ja’far bin Sulaiman from Abdullah bin Hakam from his father from Saeed bin Jubair from Abdullah bin Abbas that he said: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) said:

Indeed, my caliphs and legatees and the divine proofs over the creatures after me shall be twelve. The first of whom is my brother and the last is my son. He was asked: O Messenger of Allah, who is your brother? He replied: Ali Ibne Abi Talib. Then he was asked: Who is your son? The very Mahdi who will fill the earth with justice and equity just as it would be fraught with injustice and oppression. By the One Who sent me as the giver of glad tidings even if a day remains from the tenure of the world, the Almighty Allah would definitely prolong that day to such an extent that he reappears in it. At that time Isa bin Maryam, the spirit of Allah will descend and pray behind him. And the earth shall be illuminated by his effulgence and his kingdom and power will stretch to the east and the west of the earth.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 24, page 286 Hadith Number 27 by Shaykh A-Saduq

I wasn't talking about the "will hadith that you guys posted here" however matn of that hadith is very very weak and goes against many Sahih Hadith and also it goes against your faith ;)

should I show you how you guys mistranslated a Hadith? :)

One does not need to write his "will"- on the death bed :lol:

I have already explained: post nr #663

True said brother :)

soon I will (inshAllah) post hadiths that will totally expose Ahmad Al-Hassan

(bismillah)

no need, they seem to think every single shia doesnt love ahlulbayt as, apart from the ansars them selves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Banned

no need, they seem to think every single shia doesnt love ahlulbayt as, apart from the ansars them selves.

they believe that ahmad gheeta is the first muslim after imam mahdi (atf). therefore all scholars in the history of shiaism are kuffar, and all shia to follow scholars, including the ansar themselves.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Ali H Syed,

The people of knowledge reffered to in the ayahs you quoted are the Ahul Bayt. One example, the Ahlul Dhikr/ People of Remembrance are the Ahlul Bayt a.s., not the scholars.

(bismillah)

your posts have nothing to do with scholars, they are aimed at non believers, and men who are hypocrites. our scholars are neither, once again you climb out of the obvious, do i have to keep posting the same thing again and again? our scholars are lovers of the ahlulbayt, they pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Prince of the believer a.s "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that they can erect it?Or was it bent so that they can straighten it?Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its opposition?Or did it force them to do righteousness so they sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

When our Qa'em stands he will face from the ignorance of the people worst than what the Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family faced from ignorane of the Era of Jahilya. How can that be? He said: The Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family came with him people that worshipped stones,rocks,rods,and sculpture, and our Qa'em when he stands, the people will face him with the interpretation of the Book of Allah, and will use it as an alibi and he said: By Allah his righteousness shall enter your houses

Gaibat AlSheikh Al-Numaani p.297

(bismillah)

and i didnt even see your claim of taqleed being haram. once again come forth with evidence of TAQLEED, being HARAM in the QURAN.

From Baseer he said from Abi Abdullah a.s "They took their Rabbis and Monks without Allah he said "By Allah they didn't accept them to worship them even if they called them but they made permissible for what is forbidden and made forbidden for what is permissible so they worshipped them without feeling it" Al-Kafi v.1 p.53

therefore all scholars in the history of shiaism are kuffar, and all shia to follow scholars, including the ansar themselves.

The working scholars are commended for their work for Islam, it is the nonworking scholars who are the issue. The scholars have a huge responsibility and it their duty to uphold it. The ansar are not prejudiced against the scholars these are the words of the Ahlulbayt a.s. which differentiate clearly between the scholars who work for the religion, and the corrupt non-working scholars at the time of Imam Mahdi a.s.

Edited by GreenLantern
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Prince of the believer a.s "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that they can erect it?Or was it bent so that they can straighten it?Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its opposition?Or did it force them to do righteousness so they sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

When our Qa'em stands he will face from the ignorance of the people worst than what the Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family faced from ignorane of the Era of Jahilya. How can that be? He said: The Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family came with him people that worshipped stones,rocks,rods,and sculpture, and our Qa'em when he stands, the people will face him with the interpretation of the Book of Allah, and will use it as an alibi and he said: By Allah his righteousness shall enter your houses

Gaibat AlSheikh Al-Numaani p.297

From Baseer he said from Abi Abdullah a.s "They took their Rabbis and Monks without Allah he said "By Allah they didn't accept them to worship them even if they called them but they made permissible for what is forbidden and made forbidden for what is permissible so they worshipped them without feeling it" Al-Kafi v.1 p.53

look at their propaganda like if hadith talks about "shia scholars" :lol:

  • Sunnis have scholars
  • Zaidis have scholars
  • Wahhabis have scholars
  • Ismailis have scholars

and so on....

Twelver Shia scholars are helpers of Imam Mahdi (aj)

Edited by Rasul
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

Ali H Syed,

The people of knowledge reffered to in the ayahs you quoted are the Ahul Bayt. One example, the Ahlul Dhikr/ People of Remembrance are the Ahlul Bayt a.s., not the scholars.

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Prince of the believer a.s "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that they can erect it?Or was it bent so that they can straighten it?Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its opposition?Or did it force them to do righteousness so they sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

When our Qa'em stands he will face from the ignorance of the people worst than what the Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family faced from ignorane of the Era of Jahilya. How can that be? He said: The Prophet of Allah pbuh and his family came with him people that worshipped stones,rocks,rods,and sculpture, and our Qa'em when he stands, the people will face him with the interpretation of the Book of Allah, and will use it as an alibi and he said: By Allah his righteousness shall enter your houses

Gaibat AlSheikh Al-Numaani p.297

From Baseer he said from Abi Abdullah a.s "They took their Rabbis and Monks without Allah he said "By Allah they didn't accept them to worship them even if they called them but they made permissible for what is forbidden and made forbidden for what is permissible so they worshipped them without feeling it" Al-Kafi v.1 p.53

The working scholars are commended for their work for Islam, it is the nonworking scholars who are the issue. The scholars have a huge responsibility and it their duty to uphold it. The ansar are not prejudiced against the scholars these are the words of the Ahlulbayt a.s. which differentiate clearly between the scholars who work for the religion, and the corrupt non-working scholars at the time of Imam Mahdi a.s.

(bismillah)

let me start from this extract:

Needing Proof for actions:

    • that he who perished may perish after a clear proof and he who liveth may live after a clear proof” (Anfal, 42)
    • bring ye proof if ye be truthful” (Baqara, 111)

Relying on Others for Religion Instructions:

    • And nor is it for the faithful that they should go forth all together; why should not then a company from every party of them go forth that they may acquire understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they return unto them, so that they may be cautious” (Tawbah, 122)
    • Ask the people of Thikr if you know not”. (Alanbya', 7) [the scholars explain the people of thikr as the people of knowledge. Even though the verse may have specific application given the verses around it, the verse is also left unrestricted so it may be applied here as well.]
    • “Ahmad Ibn Ishaq asked Imam Alhadi (A): From whom should I take and whose words should I accept? Imam said: Alamri is my trusted one and whatever he gives from me is from me and whatever he says to you narrated from me is narrated from me; so listen to him and obey him, he is the trusted one”.
    • “Hassan ibn Ali ibn Yaqteen said I asked Imam Alridha: It is very difficult to come to you and ask you for what I need from my religion, is Yunus Ibn Abdurrahman trustworthy for me to take my religion from him? Imam said: Yes” (Altanqeeh Fi Sharh Alurwa al Wothqa, Sayiid Abul Qassim Alkhoei)

Setting Standards on Who Can Do Fatwa:

    • Imam Alsadiq (A) said to Abban Ibn Taghlub: “Sit in the masjid of Madeenah and give Fatwa [answer people's religious questions], because I like others to see people like you in my Shia” (Alijtihad Wa Altaqleed, Alkhilkhali)
    • Imam Alsadiq (A) said: “Whoever gives Fatwa to the people without knowledge or guidance from Allah, he will be cursed by the angles of mercy and the angles of punishment and the responsibility of those who follow him will be with him” (Alijtihad Wa Altaqleed, Alkhilkhali)

now please read through it carefully.

if you look at the interpretations of my quoted verses, most scholars confirm that they are indeed evidence of taqleed.

the hadith you posted such as this one:

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Do you really believe our scholars to be the ones discussed here? oh wait so your implying it is, over the scholars of saudi/pakistan mhuleh, who misguide people.

you ansars have no logic in your brains.

you are speaking with such ignorance, that its funny. the so called scholars this refers to are the corrupt ones who spread lies, not the scholars who spread the message of islam properly.

once again the questions i pose are not answered. the scholars, the ayatullahs who spread nothing but truth. who speak only what our imams as taught us, and what the quran taught us. ones who love ahlulbayt as. are non believers and will be the ones fighting imam mahdi as?

but a man who cant show his face, and speaks through a website is an infallible? a man who actually went to study at the place that he hates and despises and calls non believers, is the guided one?

answer me. i tell your from my heart, and my intentions on pure truth. that the scholars and shia of ali as, who mourn imam hussein as, who pledge their allegiance to imam mahdi as, who strive to the truth. are the same people you are disrespecting and spreading lies against.

now answer my points and questions properly, all of them.

to my outstanding request:

From Baseer he said from Abi Abdullah a.s "They took their Rabbis and Monks without Allah he said "By Allah they didn't accept them to worship them even if they called them but they made permissible for what is forbidden and made forbidden for what is permissible so they worshipped them without feeling it" Al-Kafi v.1 p.53

show me in history a point, where a grand ayatullah has asked for the shia to do a haraam act. name me one fatwa from a grand ayatullah that goes against islam, the quran, and Allah sbwt.

this is not directed at them, more is it directed to ahmad and his ansars.

look at their propaganda like if hadith talks about "shia scholars" :lol:

  • Sunnis have scholars
  • Zaidis have scholars
  • Wahhabis have scholars
  • Ismailis have scholars

and so on....

Twelver Shia scholars are helpers of Imam Mahdi (aj)

(bismillah)

their arguments are pathetic. and the corrupted hadith they use to back their claims is more than pathetic.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

look at their propaganda like if hadith talks about "shia scholars" :lol:

  • Sunnis have scholars
  • Zaidis have scholars
  • Wahhabis have scholars
  • Ismailis have scholars

and so on....

Twelver Shia scholars are helpers of Imam Mahdi (aj)

Well lets look at what the narrations tell us:

Imam Al-Baaqer a.s "If the Qa'em emerges he shall aproach to Kufa

and so then afew thousands will emerge out of it claiming that

he has no son, with them are weapons, and they will say, return

from where you came we do not need your help with sons of Fatima,

and so he shall take to them the sword until he reaches the last

one of them, and then he shall enter Kufa and will kill in there

every misguided hypocrite, and will destroy their palaces,and

will kill the fighters until Allah swt is pleased" Irshad Al-Mufeed v.2 p.384

I wonder who is at kufa nowadays.

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O

Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the

people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the

face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy

and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have

our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough

of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God

in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and

they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-

Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

The scholars who misguide the shias, make the connection your self.

Prince of the believers a.s in Khutba mentions the ending

days"The jurists"fuqaha" will lean towards lying and the scholars

will lean towards misguidance" Ilzaam Al-Naaseb Ithbaat Al-Huja Al-Ga'eb v.2 p.195

Who tells you that these jurist are not the same individuals you follow?

From Mufathel Ibn Umar he said:I heard

Abu Abdullah a.s saying:"If the riser(Qa'em)

stands,he will start with the liars amongst the

Shias,and so he then kills them"

Ikhtyar Ma'rifat AlRijal AlToosi v.2 p.589,

AlKashi p.253

All the shia are not automatically holy, like you believe they are. The shia include the scholars doesnt it?

Yome Al-Khalas p.279 Besharat Al Islam p.297

"His enemies are the scholars of Taqleed, they will be under his

rulership in fear from his sword and his power,and for a want

from what he has"

I wonder who are the scholars of taqleed these days. Because there is only the 12er who do taqleed.

Your trying to say that your scholars are infallible. It is crazy to think that, because these narrations above differ from your belief. The non working 12er ulema are misguided. Simple as that and we are not the first to say this. The narrations go against the ulema, also the fact that taqleed is haram yet your still going to do it, there is not a single verse in the quran backing it:

Imam Al-Saadiq a.s says:"Becareful of Taqleed(copying scholars)

for whoever copies someone in his religion has perished for Allah

says in the Quran"They took their Rabbis and monks as Lords

without Allah"By Allah they haven't prayed for them neither did

they fast for them, but they made halal what is haram and made

haram for what is halal, so they copied them in this manner,

and so they worshipped them without even realizing.

Sheikh Al-Kulayni Kafi v.1 p.53

I believe many people here are now in the state of denial.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

let me start from this extract:

Needing Proof for actions:


    • that he who perished may perish after a clear proof and he who liveth may live after a clear proof” (Anfal, 42)
    • bring ye proof if ye be truthful” (Baqara, 111)

Relying on Others for Religion Instructions:


    • And nor is it for the faithful that they should go forth all together; why should not then a company from every party of them go forth that they may acquire understanding in religion, and that they may warn their people when they return unto them, so that they may be cautious” (Tawbah, 122)
    • Ask the people of Thikr if you know not”. (Alanbya', 7) [the scholars explain the people of thikr as the people of knowledge. Even though the verse may have specific application given the verses around it, the verse is also left unrestricted so it may be applied here as well.]
    • “Ahmad Ibn Ishaq asked Imam Alhadi (A): From whom should I take and whose words should I accept? Imam said: Alamri is my trusted one and whatever he gives from me is from me and whatever he says to you narrated from me is narrated from me; so listen to him and obey him, he is the trusted one”.
    • “Hassan ibn Ali ibn Yaqteen said I asked Imam Alridha: It is very difficult to come to you and ask you for what I need from my religion, is Yunus Ibn Abdurrahman trustworthy for me to take my religion from him? Imam said: Yes” (Altanqeeh Fi Sharh Alurwa al Wothqa, Sayiid Abul Qassim Alkhoei)

Setting Standards on Who Can Do Fatwa:


    • Imam Alsadiq (A) said to Abban Ibn Taghlub: “Sit in the masjid of Madeenah and give Fatwa [answer people's religious questions], because I like others to see people like you in my Shia” (Alijtihad Wa Altaqleed, Alkhilkhali)
    • Imam Alsadiq (A) said: “Whoever gives Fatwa to the people without knowledge or guidance from Allah, he will be cursed by the angles of mercy and the angles of punishment and the responsibility of those who follow him will be with him” (Alijtihad Wa Altaqleed, Alkhilkhali)

now please read through it carefully.

if you look at the interpretations of my quoted verses, most scholars confirm that they are indeed evidence of taqleed.

the hadith you posted such as this one:

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Do you really believe our scholars to be the ones discussed here? oh wait so your implying it is, over the scholars of saudi/pakistan mhuleh, who misguide people.

you ansars have no logic in your brains.

you are speaking with such ignorance, that its funny. the so called scholars this refers to are the corrupt ones who spread lies, not the scholars who spread the message of islam properly.

once again the questions i pose are not answered. the scholars, the ayatullahs who spread nothing but truth. who speak only what our imams as taught us, and what the quran taught us. ones who love ahlulbayt as. are non believers and will be the ones fighting imam mahdi as?

but a man who cant show his face, and speaks through a website is an infallible? a man who actually went to study at the place that he hates and despises and calls non believers, is the guided one?

answer me. i tell your from my heart, and my intentions on pure truth. that the scholars and shia of ali as, who mourn imam hussein as, who pledge their allegiance to imam mahdi as, who strive to the truth. are the same people you are disrespecting and spreading lies against.

now answer my points and questions properly, all of them.

to my outstanding request:

From Baseer he said from Abi Abdullah a.s "They took their Rabbis and Monks without Allah he said "By Allah they didn't accept them to worship them even if they called them but they made permissible for what is forbidden and made forbidden for what is permissible so they worshipped them without feeling it" Al-Kafi v.1 p.53

show me in history a point, where a grand ayatullah has asked for the shia to do a haraam act. name me one fatwa from a grand ayatullah that goes against islam, the quran, and Allah sbwt.

this is not directed at them, more is it directed to ahmad and his ansars.

(bismillah)

their arguments are pathetic. and the corrupted hadith they use to back their claims is more than pathetic.

Firstly, there is no evidence of taqleed given in the quran or hadith. You bring me one single tafsir from the Ahlul Bayt that says any of the verses you have present for the scholars are actually for the scholars. I find it to be insane that you would tell me that scholars have said that these verses are for them. Are you out of your mind brother(sorry if this sounds mean) your going to expect me to accept that? We do not follow the scholars because Ahlul Bayt have warned us about them. So bring me tafsir of Ahlul Bayt to prove your claims.

All the verses that you have proved are for the Ahlul Bayt, yet you attribute them on your scholars. Do you have any shame?

Secondly, the narrations you posted are about the deputies of the Imams, that would answer the questions. This was a tradition started by Imam Sadiq(as) because he knew the Imams in the future would be in danger, thats why many of them kept deputies to answer their questions. Imam Ahmad(as) has deputies as well, he is continuing this practice of the previous imams. Back to the point, that none of those narrations are for the scholars rather they are for the deputies of the Imams(as). Are you going to tell me that the scholars are the deputies of the Imams?

Thirdly, Look at the narrations that I posted for rasul, it talks about scholars of taqleed and scholars of Kufa. I think it is you thaat is either pretending to be ignorant, or you actually are. None of you here are using logic, make the connections your self. You cant deny the fact that there will be scholars who are bad. READ THE NARRATIONS, THEY MENTION KUFA AND TAQLEED. This can only mean one thing, that it is the 12er scholars. If you dont accept that fact, then its to bad for you. You all seem like your in a state of denial.

fourthly,

Imam Ahmad(as) is merciful towards these scholars:

1.SAYED AL KHOEI

2.SAYED KHOMEINI

3.SAYED SADDIQ AL SADR

4.SAYED BAQER AL SADR

They are known as the working scholars, who actually lived for something and worked for Ahlul Bayt. Allah knows best about the rest of them. The hadith tell us that the scholars of end times will be evil. So you decide your self.

Lastly, Sistani has taken about 200 million dollars to keep his followers from making jihad. Muta is allowed to be used as a source of business. Sistani has encouraged people to vote in elections when elections are haram, refer to surah to verse number 30. There are many more things, dont get me started on them. Also you want to know something weird, some scholars differ in opinions on haram/halal so how can you say they are all correct. Some of them must be wrong. If you want more information on the misguidance your scholars have given you then I will be very happy to give it to you. And if you want proof for it then feel free to ask.

May Allah help you all.

@ MDM

I will be responding to you later on.

For those who deny the knowledge of Imam Ahmad(as):

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...