Who Is Ahmad Al Hassan?

[Rasul]

Narrated to us Husain bin Ahmad bin Idrees (r.a.): Narrated to us my father from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa and Ibrahim bin Hashim, all of them from Hasan bin Mahboob from Abil Jarud from Abi Ja’far (a.s.) from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari that he said:

“One day I came to Fatima (s.a.) and before her was a tablet inscribed with the names of successors from her progeny. I counted twelve names, the last of whom was al-Qaim. There were three Muhammads and four Alis – bliss of Allah be on them all.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 313 Hadith Number 6 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Narrated to us Ali bin Husain bin Shazawiya Moaddab; and Ahmad bin Harun al-Qadi - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Ja’far Himyari from his father from Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Malik Fazari Kufi from Malik Saluli from Durust bin Abdul Hameed from Abdullah bin Qasim from Abdullah bin Jabala from Abi Safatij from Jabir Jofi from Abi Ja’far Muhammad bin Ali al-Baqir (a.s.) from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari that he said:

“One day I came to Lady Fatima (s.a.) and before her was a tablet from which an amazing light emanated. There were twelve names in this tablet. Three on the outer side and three on the inner, three in the end and three in one direction. Thus there were twelve names in all. I asked: Whose names are these? She replied: These are the respected names of successors, the first of whom is my cousin, and eleven shall be from my progeny. The last of them will be Qaim, bliss of Allah be on them all. Jabir says: I saw the name of Muhammad at three places and Ali at four places.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 311 Hadith Number 2 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Edited October 20, 2011 by Rasul

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

^^^

i think you guys are following some opinion blindly here

why call him .. out of all people yamani .. why weren't all imams, the prophet and all sayids called al yamani??

where is your evidence that says that first of 313 is from basra ?? do you have a simple source stating this in straight forwards fashion ? or assumptions only ??

so again ... you say "these three titles are for one person" .. this sounds in simple english like you are saying that these titles are for your 'yamani' guy from basra

i am losing my patience with you guys .. you can't answer anything straight with logic!

did they find the body of imam hassan with a label on on saying it's him ?? you consider him saying this as evidence ??

.. and i want CLEAR evidence from ahadeeth saying

"yamani will be from basra" .. now, give me SIMPLE and straight answers ..

for one thing .. he won't talk nonsense .. we can use elimination to start with .. like .. this is NOT him .. ok, next ..

i can't believe that there are people who actually think otherwise ..

Salam Alaikum,

Great you are the first person here to go point by point. InshAllah this will lead us to a more simple dialogue.

Well to start off with the following blindly debate. Ask any of the ansars here how they came to the call of the Yamani(as) and they will answer you by saying they did their own research, or they had supernatural events which had happened to them. Now the reason why I said some people on this forum are following blindly is the fact that they are looking if their scholars have accepted or not. Im very sure if one of their marjas accept these same people will go ahead and accept as well. Thats what is called blind following. Me personally, I used to be a sunni, and then I turned shia and did taqleed of Khamanei. I always in my heart thought there was something wrong with that, but then I was like oh majority of shia do it. See I used to blindly follow. Later on I realized this concept is not backed up by hadith, or Quran in anyway. And theres actually narrations which go against this system.

The evidence for the first of the 313 being from basra is here:

Imam Ali a.s said when he was talking about the companions of the 12th Imam:"The first of them is from Basra and the last of them is from Ibdaal(Syria) Besharat Al-Islam p.148

Imam Jaafer a.s said when discussing the companions of Mahdi a.s "And from Basra is Abdulrahman,--Ahmad-- and Maleeh." Beshara Al-Islam p.181

There are more narrations about this man from Basra. I will give you them if you like.

about the titles:

Take away the fact that I believe those hadiths are for Imam Ahmad(as). Logically looking doesnt that make sense that those three titles are for one man whether or not its Ahmad Al Hassan(as)? Also who better fits these descriptions than Ahmad Al Hassan (as).

Im sorry if we are making you impatient brother, we are just trying to bring people to the ark of Ahlul Bayt. May Allah give us both patience.

about Imam Hassan Al Mujtaba(as):

Now we are talking about knowledge of the unseen. Imam Ahmad(As) has displayed by saying that the body of Imam Hasan(As) is adjacent to bibi Fatima(as) now lets remember again it is knowledge of the unseen, only an Imam(aS) is capable of telling you that. Me and you both do not possess that knowledge. Our job is to just look if he fits the criteria of the Yamani/first mahdi/first of 313. If you do believe that then you know he is your Imam, and if thats the case then you know he cannot be wrong.

Criteria of the Yamani:

Again you have said he will not talk nonsense. What nonsense has Imam Ahmad(as) ever said? can you explain me that please. That is not one of the methods to figure out how the Yamani is according to Ahlul Bayt. So please show me hadiths, which prove Ahmad(as) is not the Yamani. And how will you figure out who the Yamani(as) is?

May the blessing of Allah be on Muhammed and his Progeny, the Imams, and Mahdis

[Maula Dha Mallang]

The evidence for the first of the 313 being from basra is here:

simple question:

who was born first - khizr, isa and the ashaab e kahf, or the engineer from basra?

surely they will be the first of the companions, not him?

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

ok. let me get this through to my simple little mind. lets take it in steps.

(1) the will of the prophet has been narrated in multiple sources and books over the last thousand years.

(2) ahmad gheeta reads it

(3) ahmad gheeta says it talks about him

(4) since he is the first person to have said this, this must mean its true.

(5) you all believe this brilliant proof?

and he proved this...how? by the way you DO realise that sayyeda fatima (sa) is most likely *not* buried at jannat al baqi, dont you......?

such as? and dont you blindly follow the opinions of others, which led you towards this dajjal in the first place?

so why is the yamani not called the basri?

this is nothing but qiyas.

surely people like khizr, the ashab e kahf and hazrat isa are the "first" of the 313 since they were the "first" to come along?

no it doesnt. cutting and pasting different hadith and sticking them together does.

the first mahdi was ali (as), you imbecile.

ok here is a point.

is the sword of the prophet the literal sword, or not?

if it is a literal sword, does ahmad al hassan have it?

Your first point:

Imam Ahmad(as) was told by the 12th Imam(As) whatever ranks he is. So Imam Ahmad(as) has not looked at the will himself and then said yes thats me, rather it was 12th Imam (as) that has told him this.

Second point:

So if Imam Al Mahdi(As) tells you the same thing about the grave of Imam Hassan(as) how will you prove it? How will you know? The Ahlul Bayt have told us many things, which we arent capable of going and proving our selves. you can look at my response to philip as well for more details. Dont forget the fact that we do believe in the unseen.

Third point:

Now about the ansar blindly following. As I said already ask any of the ansar how they have come to the call, and its either they have researched this call thoroughly or some supernatural things have taken place with them, such as visions, dreams, etc. Meaning that the people are waiting for the opinions of their own scholars, rather than looking up themselves, if their scholars accept they will automatically do the same.Again you can look at my response to Philip for more detail.

Fourth point:

I cannot tell you why he is not called basri. If you look at the narrations the Prophet(swa) was from Mecca, yet called him self a Yamani :

Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: “The best of men are the people of Yemen Imaan(faith) is from Yaman and I am a Yamani” Bihar Al Anwar v.57 p.232

Fifth point:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

So your saying this man mentioned in the hadith is not the first of the 313? how can he not be the first of the 313 when he is the only banner of guidance? Lets use our brains when looking at this.

Imam Ali a.s said when he was talking about the companions of the 12th Imam:"The first of them is from Basra and the last of them is from Ibdaal(Syria) Besharat Al-Islam p.148

^^^ I guess this narration is wrong right, according to your ideology? The first of the 313 is Al Yamani. its simple, make the connection your self.

Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

Does it not make sense that these three titles are for one person. How can all three people be the first believer? Does it make sense? Lets use logic, it tells us that these are titles for one man.

Sixth point:

As I said above, that three different people cannot be the first believer. It doesnt make sense. are you saying the first of 313, the Yamani, and the first Mahdi are three different individuals, yet they are the first believer? Does that make sense to you?

Seventh point:

Now please look at this narration

The Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him and his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb during the night of his death:

"O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper", and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said "O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi's. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada,The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Moussa Al Kadhim (The Patient).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Mandate of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

Now in red the Prophet talks about Ali(as) and in bold the prophet is talking about the first Mahdi who is Ahmad. Is Imam Ali(as) name Ahmad? And the narration also goes ahead to say that it will be after the 12 Imams there will be 12 Mahdis. How does it make sense for Imam Ali(as) to be the first believer of the 12th Imam(as)? This narration is surely talking about another individual.

Last point:

I cannot answer that question, because I havent looked into it my self. InshAllah another ansar can, or I will look it up my self.

Edited October 20, 2011 by YamaniAhlulBayt313

[Rasul]

this guy's believe also that Isa (as) will pray behind Ahmed Al-Hassan :lol:

Edited October 20, 2011 by Rasul

[Ali H Syed]

this guy's believe also that Isa (as) will pray behind Ahmed Al-Hassan :lol:

(bismillah)

seriously??

and note to

YamaniAhlulBayt313

do i get a reply?

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

(bismillah)

as i have wrote before, yes i agree with this, the scholars of our time will be the worst, look around you, saudi/pakistani scholars are pathetic, this does not mean every single scholar. use ure logic. now lets compare your claims with this:

I came to the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) and saw al-Hasan (pbuh) on his shoulder and al-Husain (pbuh) on his thigh; the Prophet (PBUH&HF) was kissing them saying, “O Allah befriend him who befriends them and be hostile to him who is hostile to them.” Then he (PBUH&HF) said, “O Ibn Abbas! It is as if I see the beard of my son al-Husain dyed with his blood, calling people but is not being answered, asking for help but is not being helped.” I asked, “Who will do this?” He replied, “The wicked of my nation. May Allah deny them my intercession!” He then continued, “O Ibn Abbas! He who visits him while recognizing his rights, Allah shall write for him the reward of 1000 Hajj and 1000 Umra. Behold! He who visits him has indeed visited me, and he who visits me, it is as if he has visited Allah. And the right of the visitor of Allah over Him[1] is that He shall not punish him by Fire. Behold! Answering (of supplications) is guaranteed under the dome of his grave, cure is placed in the soil of his place (of martyrdom), and the (succeeding) Imams (PBUT) are from his progeny… O Ibn Abbas! Their Wilaya is my Wilaya, which is the Wilaya of Allah. Fighting them is fighting me, which is fighting Allah. Making peace with them is making peace with me, which is making peace with Allah. He (PBUH&HF) then recited: ‘Their intention is to put out the light of Allah with their mouths; but Allah will complete His light, even though the disbelievers may detest.’ (61:8)” [2]

you are telling me, these ayatullahs, and the people who do taqleed of them, who are shia of ali as, who die in karbala and around the world from bombs when they are mourning the death of imam hussein as are not followers of imam mahdi as?

1- Visiting Imam al-Husain (pbuh) is the sign of love for Ahl al-Bait (PBUT). Whoever loves Ahl al-Bait (PBUT) should aspire to visit the grave of al-Husain (pbuh). One who does not visit Imam al-Husain (pbuh), is deficient in faith, and if he ever enters Paradise, his rank will be below the rank of believers in Paradise.[4]

the ones who give away everything in this world to strive to become closer to Allah sbwt and the ahlulbayt are false people? and a man who is in hiding, ahmad, who fears for his life is the righteous one? answer me that.

4- If a wretched person performs the Ziyarat of Imam al-Husain (pbuh), felicity shall be written for him, and he shall be continuously immersed in the blessings of Allah.[7]

7- By performing the Ziyarat of the Chief of the Martyrs (pbuh), one has made/observed a relationship with the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) and the guiding Imams (PBUT). The requests of the pilgrim at his grave are fulfilled, his supplications are answered, sooner or later, and what the pilgrim had left behind is protected.[11]

13- Allah has appointed 70,000 Angels around the blessed grave of the Chief of the Martyrs (pbuh), who stay there until the Day of Judgment and perform prayers; each of their prayers is equal to 1000 prayers of human beings. The rewards and merits of these prayers are offered to the visitors of Imam al-Husain (pbuh).[17]

now to taqleed:

O Believers! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger (blessings and peace be upon him) and those (men of Truth) who hold command among you. Surah Nisa (4:59)

So if you yourselves do not know (anything), then ask the People of Remembrance. Surah Nahl (16:43)

Had they referred it to the Messenger (blessing and peace be upon him) or those of them who are in command (instead of making it public), then those among them who can draw conclusion from some matter would have found it (i.e. the truth of the news). Surah Nisa (4:83)

and those who follow them in the grade of spiritual excellence — Allah is well pleased with them (all) and they (all) are well pleased with Him. Surah Tawbah (9:100)

any questions?

Sorry I did not see your comment.

First point:

If anyone denies the Yamani they are a resident of Hell. This is not me saying it let me refer you to the hadith:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

I am not one to judge, you can read the hadith your self. From this hadith we can also see the importance of the Yamani. As we have already told you plenty of times that Ahmad Al Hassan is not in hiding. He has called out many of the scholars to debate already yet they have not accepted him, if he was in hiding he wouldnt have called them out. Again read the narration above and your answer is in red.

Second point on Taqleed:

All the verses you have mentioned are for the Ahlul Bayt(As). None are for the scholars.

[Rasul]

If anyone denies the Yamani they are a resident of Hell. This is not me saying it let me refer you to the hadith:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

I am not one to judge, you can read the hadith your self. From this hadith we can also see the importance of the Yamani. As we have already told you plenty of times that Ahmad Al Hassan is not in hiding. He has called out many of the scholars to debate already yet they have not accepted him, if he was in hiding he wouldnt have called them out. Again read the narration above and your answer is in red.

Yamani is important but you guys are misguided... do you see in hadith after Yamanis name ---> (as) (Alayhi Salam)???

Can you show me a single hadith where after Yamanis name it is written (as) (Alayhi Salam)

(bismillah)

seriously??

Yes and they believe also that Ahmed Al-Hassan died on cross instead of Isa (as) :lol: :lol: :lol:

+ Later he (Ahmed) reincarnated :lol: :lol:

Edited October 21, 2011 by Rasul

[Love-Of-Islam]

Yamani is important but you guys are misguided... do you see in hadith after Yamanis name ---> (as) (Alayhi Salam)???

Can you show me a single hadith where after Yamanis name it is written (as) (Alayhi Salam)

Yes and they believe also that Ahmed Al-Hassan died on cross instead of Isa (as) :lol: :lol: :lol:

+ Later he (Ahmed) reincarnated :lol: :lol:

actually?

yamani answer my question? or run away like a coward like ahmed

Edited October 21, 2011 by Love-Of-Islam

[Love-Of-Islam]

From Abu Ja'afer and Abu Abdullah a.s mentioning Kufa he said:"Masjid Suhail where Allah hasn't sent a Prophet except that he prayed inside it,and from it justice shall appear by Allah,and in it will be His riser and after him will be risers,and they have the ranks of the Prophets,successors,and the true believers"

Wasa'el Al Shia v.3 p.524

The Yamani a.s is a successor of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap as mentioned in the Prophets' will. And the infallible ones from Imam Ali a.s and offspring of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap are better than all the Prophets' except the Prophet Muhammad.

that is ridiculous :wacko: so the isa (as) will pray behind yamani :blink:

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

Yamani is important but you guys are misguided... do you see in hadith after Yamanis name ---> (as) (Alayhi Salam)???

Can you show me a single hadith where after Yamanis name it is written (as) (Alayhi Salam)

So out of all my points that I sat here and took a hour to write, you go ahead and come up with this silly rebuttal. You cannot call anyone misguided, and think that you have proved anything. Please respond to all my points and prove them wrong, which you will never be capable of. You have avoided everything else and found one of the most undervalued debate, which usually sunnis bring up. I am sending peace on him, prove to me from anywhere that its haram to do that, if you are not able to do that then please stay out of the debate, because it seems that you do not know anything that your even talking to. So stop avoiding my other points, prove them wrong please.

Secondly you are a liar, bring me from one book written by Ahmad where he has talked about reincarnation. People like you get me very angry, may Allah give us patience inshAllah.

actually?

yamani answer my question? or run away like a coward like ahmed

What question? please show me your question and ill respond to it.

Oh yeah and about cowards, ahh I believe sistani, and a couple of others were called out to a debate, but guess what they did not respond...would that make them cowards? ( of course you will say no, because they are your idols, who you unknowingly worship and believe to be perfect)

Ya Allah protect us from evils

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

Its absolutely impossible to refute your points because there is i3jaaz(stubborness to take each hadeeth and dissect) from the other side :dry: which means, that they have no other tactic except slandering,hurting feelings,emotional baggage...the call is too difficult for them to refute with hadeeths so they resort not, according to the black on white that the Prophet mentioned(the Ahlulbayt narrations), but whatever is materialistic for them to suit their matter. A sword,a miracle,a picture....they want to follow a successor of Imam Al Mahdi that doesn't have knowledge at all I suppose?I seriously don't know why they haven't disciplined their own manners with us ...lol its just a forum really, but its crucial to see many get banned because of spreading hadeeths of Ahlulbayt.

WalSalam

Salam,

SubhanAllah, couldnt have said it better my self.

[Love-Of-Islam]

So out of all my points that I sat here and took a hour to write, you go ahead and come up with this silly rebuttal. You cannot call anyone misguided, and think that you have proved anything. Please respond to all my points and prove them wrong, which you will never be capable of. You have avoided everything else and found one of the most undervalued debate, which usually sunnis bring up. I am sending peace on him, prove to me from anywhere that its haram to do that, if you are not able to do that then please stay out of the debate, because it seems that you do not know anything that your even talking to. So stop avoiding my other points, prove them wrong please.

Secondly you are a liar, bring me from one book written by Ahmad where he has talked about reincarnation. People like you get me very angry, may Allah give us patience inshAllah.

What question? please show me your question and ill respond to it.

Oh yeah and about cowards, ahh I believe sistani, and a couple of others were called out to a debate, but guess what they did not respond...would that make them cowards? ( of course you will say no, because they are your idols, who you unknowingly worship and believe to be perfect)

Ya Allah protect us from evils

YamaniAhlulBayt313, on 17 October 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

Are you trying to say the narrations I have posted are false? please answer this question, and then ill answer yours. The Ahlul Bayt have warned you about them yet you still look for reasons to follow them. Prove these narrations to be false if you do believe that. Because that is the message I am getting by reading your questions.

u are the one defending so u have to answer first

i am not saying they are false or true i just raised a question whom to follow then during those times?

none of the ansra answered this properly how do we know ahmed age is not cut off?

u need help no one is perfect right now only u guys think yamani is perfect what a joke. I dont even see why they would take time off to debate u people who twist hadiths, and run away!

[Ali H Syed]

Sorry I did not see your comment.

First point:

If anyone denies the Yamani they are a resident of Hell. This is not me saying it let me refer you to the hadith:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

I am not one to judge, you can read the hadith your self. From this hadith we can also see the importance of the Yamani. As we have already told you plenty of times that Ahmad Al Hassan is not in hiding. He has called out many of the scholars to debate already yet they have not accepted him, if he was in hiding he wouldnt have called them out. Again read the narration above and your answer is in red.

Second point on Taqleed:

All the verses you have mentioned are for the Ahlul Bayt(As). None are for the scholars.

(bismillah)

sigh once again, hadith shows the yamani, these hadith doesnt prove that ahmad is the yemeni.... what is wrong with you people. i am aware of the hadith of the yamani, these dont translate to ahmad at all. IN any way what so ever.

and secondly if you read the interpretations of those iyahs, then you will understand they are regarding scholars. dont take my word, take it from the most knowledgeable of translators/interpreters.

secondly the hadith you used doesnt relate to ahmad, it clearly states when the yamani appears. APPEARS, HIS BANNER, physical attributes? he has not appeared and he has not raised any sort of banner, and evidence from a website doesnt prove anything. for example. right now, i can create a website, call my self ahmad, claim that i lived where ever and using hadith form it around me. does that make me the yamani? of course it doesnt.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

ok here are my counter points.

Your first point:

Imam Ahmad(as) was told by the 12th Imam(As) whatever ranks he is. So Imam Ahmad(as) has not looked at the will himself and then said yes thats me, rather it was 12th Imam (as) that has told him this.

this is going from bad to worse.

so:

(1) ahmad gheeta reads a book, thinks it is referring to him, and you believe it.

(2) he then says that voices in his head tell him he is right, and claims those voices are imam mahdi (atf)

(3) you believe that too.

am i right?

Second point:

So if Imam Al Mahdi(As) tells you the same thing about the grave of Imam Hassan(as) how will you prove it? How will you know? The Ahlul Bayt have told us many things, which we arent capable of going and proving our selves. you can look at my response to philip as well for more details. Dont forget the fact that we do believe in the unseen.

imam mahdi (atf) will come with actual relics and proofs of his station, as well as the ability to prove his ilm e ghayb.

if he can prove his station, and the signs are fulfilled of his return (such as the call from the sky) then i will believe whatever he says. ahmad gheeta has yet to answer anything which will prove he has any knowledge of the ilm e ghayb.

Third point:

Now about the ansar blindly following. As I said already ask any of the ansar how they have come to the call, and its either they have researched this call thoroughly or some supernatural things have taken place with them, such as visions, dreams, etc. Meaning that the people are waiting for the opinions of their own scholars, rather than looking up themselves, if their scholars accept they will automatically do the same.Again you can look at my response to Philip for more detail.

our masumeen (as) proved their station in the waking world - performing miracles, knowledge of the unknown, being open and meeting people and talking with delegations, inviting people to the truth by being the truth themselves and so on.

ahmad gheeta does none of these. he hides, and tells people to look into their dreams. even osama bin laden recorded videos of himself to prove he was alive and he actually existed. ahmad gheeta cant even do that

Fourth point:

I cannot tell you why he is not called basri. If you look at the narrations the Prophet(swa) was from Mecca, yet called him self a Yamani :

Prophet Muhammad pbuh said: “The best of men are the people of Yemen Imaan(faith) is from Yaman and I am a Yamani” Bihar Al Anwar v.57 p.232

is basra part of yemen?

Fifth point:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

So your saying this man mentioned in the hadith is not the first of the 313? how can he not be the first of the 313 when he is the only banner of guidance? Lets use our brains when looking at this.

"if the yamani appears"...?

ahmad gheeta hasnt appeared, has he? he is living in hiding in some hole in iraq. where is his banner that we shall join under? not one of the signs of the yamani refer to him.

Imam Ali a.s said when he was talking about the companions of the 12th Imam:"The first of them is from Basra and the last of them is from Ibdaal(Syria) Besharat Al-Islam p.148

^^^ I guess this narration is wrong right, according to your ideology? The first of the 313 is Al Yamani. its simple, make the connection your self.

lets do simple maths.

(1) the first sign of the end times is not the rise of the yamani. he appears somewhere near the first quarter/ middle of events. even then its only 1 sentence in a whole chapter of signs.

(2) the yamani is from yaman

(3) ahmad gheeta is from basra

(4) the hadith does not say the yamani is in basra, he will rise in basra, or is from basra.

what you have basically done is say "OMG ahmad gheeta is the yamani" and "OMG a companion will rise from basra" then gone "OMG the yamani is therefore from basra"

this is qiyas. you are adding 2 and 2 and getting 22 instead of 4.

how do you know, for example, that khizr (as) will not appear from basra (as an example)? does it say the yamani will rise from basra?

Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

so everyone before ahmad gheeta is a kaffir? that hadith is referring to al hujja ibn hassan (atf)

Does it not make sense that these three titles are for one person. How can all three people be the first believer? Does it make sense? Lets use logic, it tells us that these are titles for one man.

as shia, we believe our imams had numerous laqabs.

Sixth point:

As I said above, that three different people cannot be the first believer. It doesnt make sense. are you saying the first of 313, the Yamani, and the first Mahdi are three different individuals, yet they are the first believer? Does that make sense to you?

stop saying things i did not say, then arguing against them.

i never said they were 3 people. who said it was referring to 3 people?

Seventh point:

Now please look at this narration

The Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him and his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb during the night of his death:

"O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper", and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said "O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi's. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada,The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Moussa Al Kadhim (The Patient).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Mandate of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

Now in red the Prophet talks about Ali(as) and in bold the prophet is talking about the first Mahdi who is Ahmad. Is Imam Ali(as) name Ahmad? And the narration also goes ahead to say that it will be after the 12 Imams there will be 12 Mahdis. How does it make sense for Imam Ali(as) to be the first believer of the 12th Imam(as)? This narration is surely talking about another individual.

this is really becoming ridiculous now.

(1) show me the actual arabic of the will, we will translate it ourselves.

(2) is ahmad gheeta the only person ever called "ahmad", that the prophet could ONLY be referring to him?

(3) the raj'ah is when all 12 imams will return to earth - i.e. after the 12th imam the 12 mahdis (11 imams + prophet) will return

Last point:

I cannot answer that question, because I havent looked into it my self. InshAllah another ansar can, or I will look it up my self.

wait - you guys keep bleating on like sheep about "AHMAD WILL HAVE THE WEAPON OF THE PROPHET AND THE WEAPON IS KNOWLEDGE".

my brother posted a hadith which imam (as) cursed those who claimed to have the weapon, and explained it is a literal sword.

now you are saying you do not know if it is literal or spiritual?

does he have the sword or not?

and btw my last question is EXPLAIN HOW HE IS THE GRANDSON OF IMAM MAHDI (ATF) IS IT TRUE YOU GUYS BELIEVE HIS GRANDMOTHER HAD SEX WITH IMAM MAHDI (ATF)

[Ali H Syed]

(bismillah)

further point to the reply to my post, you still didnt answer me, the ayatollahs and the shia of ali as mourn imam hussein as death, they pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as, they visit the site of karbala when they can, and the hadith i posted about the rewards of visiting karbala etc, you still seem to think these scholars/people are kafir and will reside in hell?

[Rasul]

From Abu Ja'afer and Abu Abdullah a.s mentioning Kufa he said:"Masjid Suhail where Allah hasn't sent a Prophet except that he prayed inside it,and from it justice shall appear by Allah,and in it will be His riser and after him will be risers,and they have the ranks of the Prophets,successors,and the true believers"

Wasa'el Al Shia v.3 p.524

Narrated to us Husain bin Ahmad bin Idrees (r.a.): Narrated to us my father from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isa and Ibrahim bin Hashim, all of them from Hasan bin Mahboob from Abil Jarud from Abi Ja’far (a.s.) from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari that he said:

“One day I came to Fatima (s.a.) and before her was a tablet inscribed with the names of successors from her progeny. I counted twelve names, the last of whom was al-Qaim. There were three Muhammads and four Alis – bliss of Allah be on them all.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 313 Hadith Number 6 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Narrated to us Ali bin Husain bin Shazawiya Moaddab; and Ahmad bin Harun al-Qadi - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Abdullah bin Ja’far Himyari from his father from Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Malik Fazari Kufi from Malik Saluli from Durust bin Abdul Hameed from Abdullah bin Qasim from Abdullah bin Jabala from Abi Safatij from Jabir Jofi from Abi Ja’far Muhammad bin Ali al-Baqir (a.s.) from Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari that he said:

“One day I came to Lady Fatima (s.a.) and before her was a tablet from which an amazing light emanated. There were twelve names in this tablet. Three on the outer side and three on the inner, three in the end and three in one direction. Thus there were twelve names in all. I asked: Whose names are these? She replied: These are the respected names of successors, the first of whom is my cousin, and eleven shall be from my progeny. The last of them will be Qaim, bliss of Allah be on them all. Jabir says: I saw the name of Muhammad at three places and Ali at four places.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 311 Hadith Number 2 by Shaykh A-Saduq

The Yamani a.s is a successor of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap as mentioned in the Prophets' will. And the infallible ones from Imam Ali a.s and offspring of Prophet Muhammad pbuhap are better than all the Prophets' except the Prophet Muhammad.

Successor of Muhammad (pbuh) are ONLY 12 Imams; do you want proof?

+ answer to this:

Rasul, on 21 October 2011 - 02:14 AM, said:

do you see in hadith after Yamanis name ---> (Alayhi Salam)???

Can you show me a single hadith where after Yamanis name it is written (Alayhi Salam)

Edited October 21, 2011 by Rasul

[Rasul]

So out of all my points that I sat here and took a hour to write, you go ahead and come up with this silly rebuttal. You cannot call anyone misguided, and think that you have proved anything. Please respond to all my points and prove them wrong, which you will never be capable of.

:lol: I have already proved that you guys are misguided... post your points against me and I will answer to them ;)

You have avoided everything else and found one of the most undervalued debate, which usually sunnis bring up. I am sending peace on him, prove to me from anywhere that its haram to do that, if you are not able to do that then please stay out of the debate, because it seems that you do not know anything that your even talking to. So stop avoiding my other points, prove them wrong please

The one that has avoided to answer to everything is you and your friends.. Of Course you get angry because you can not answer to a single question :lol:

Rasul, on 21 October 2011 - 02:14 AM, said:

do you see in hadith after Yamanis name ---> (Alayhi Salam)???

Can you show me a single hadith where after Yamanis name it is written (Alayhi Salam)

Secondly you are a liar, bring me from one book written by Ahmad where he has talked about reincarnation. People like you get me very angry, may Allah give us patience inshAllah.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Didn't Ahmed Al-Hassan die on cross?

See what your Sheikh says:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPz5SISkj1w&feature=player_embedded

Edited October 21, 2011 by Rasul

[Rasul]

Do anyone have doubts that Ahmad Al-Hassan is not Dajjal?

Should I post hadith with true will of Prophet (pbuh)?

Edited October 21, 2011 by Rasul

[Philip]

Please do

[Rasul]

Transmitted by several sahih chains of narrators

The True and Sahih "will" of Muhammad (pbuh)

And narrated to us Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Hamza Alawi (r.a.): Narrated to us Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Husain bin Durust Sarrawi from Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Malik that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Imran Kufi from Abdur Rahman bin Abi Najran; and Safwan bin Yahya from Ishaq Ibne Ammar from Abi Abdullah as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:

“O Ishaq, shall I give you a glad tiding? I said: Please do, may I be sacrificed on you, O son of Allah’s Messenger. The Imam said: I saw in the scroll dictated by the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) and written by Amirul Momineen (a.s.) the following:

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is a Book from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise to Muhammad, His light, His ambassador, His veil and His proof. The trustworthy spirit (Jibraeel) has descended with it from the Lord of the worlds. O Muhammad! Magnify my names, be grateful for My bounties and do not deny My endowments. Verily I am Allah, there is no god but Me, the Destroyer of the oppressors, the Degrader of the tyrants and the Establisher of the Day of Judgment. Verily I am Allah, there is no god but Me. Whoever expects grace from other than Me or fears other than My justice and My punishment, I will punish him in such a way that I will not punish anybody in this manner in the worlds. Hence, worship only Me and rely only on Me. Indeed, I did not raise a messenger, completed his days and terminated his duration but that I appointed for him a successor. Certainly, I made you superior over all other Prophets and made your successor superior over all other successors. After him, I honored you with your two grandsons, Hasan and Husain. I made Hasan the mine of My knowledge after the end of the days of his father and I made Husain the treasure chest of My revelation, I honored him with martyrdom and sealed it for him with eternal bliss. So, he is the best of the martyrs and the highest of them in grade before Me. I have placed My perfect word with him and the complete proof near him. Through his progeny, I shall reward and punish.

The first of them is the chief of the worshippers and the adornment of My past friends, then his son (Muhammad) who resembles his grandfather al-Mahmood1, the splitter of My knowledge and the mine of My wisdom. Soon, those who doubt concerning his son Ja’far will be destroyed. He who rejects him has rejected Me. I speak the truth, I will indeed honor the position of Ja’far and make him happy vis-à-vis his Shias, his helpers and his friends. After him, I have selected Musa and there will be a blinding, dark corruption so that the spark of My obedience is not terminated, My proof is not hidden and My friends are not afflicted with misfortune. Beware! Whoever denies even one of them has denied My bounty. Whoever changes one verse from My Book, then indeed has attributed a lie unto Me. Then woe unto the liars, the deniers with the termination of the duration of My servant, My beloved and My chosen one, Musa. Verily, the one who denies the eighth is as if he has denied all My friends (Imams). Ali is My friend, My helper and the one upon whom I have placed Prophethood’s burden of proof and conferred upon him mastership. An arrogant devil2 will murder him. He will be buried in a city, which the righteous servant3 has built, next to the worst of My creatures. I speak the truth, I will soothe his eyes with Muhammad, his son and his successor after him. He is the heir of My knowledge, the mine of My wisdom, the place of My joy and My proof upon My creatures.

--------

1 A title of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.).

2 Mamoon al-Abbasi.

3 Dhulqarnain

None shall believe in him but that the paradise will be his abode and I will allow him to intercede for seventy of his family members, even if all of them are eligible for hell. I will complete his bliss with his son Ali, My friend, My helper, My witness amongst My creatures and My trustee upon My revelation. From him, I will bring forth Hasan, the caller to My path and the treasurer of My knowledge. Thereafter, I will complete this (chain of Imamate) with his son, م.ح.م.د. mercy for the worlds. He will possess the perfection of Musa, the brightness of Isa and the patience of Ayyub. Soon, My friends will be humiliated in his time and their heads will be gifted as trophies like the heads of the Turks and the Dailamites. They will be killed, they will be burnt, they will live in a state of fear, terror and trepidation. The earth will be colored with their blood and wailing and sobbing will be commonplace among their womenfolk. They are My true friends! Through them I will repel all blinding and dark mischief, remove the earthquakes and do away with the burdens and the chains.

أُولَئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ صَلَوَاتٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَرَحْمَةٌ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُهْتَدُونَ

They are those upon them is the blessings of their Lord and mercy. And they are the guided ones.1

--------

1 Surah Baqarah 2:157

Then Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.): O Ishaq, this is the religion of the angels and messengers. Protect it from those unworthy of it. May Allah protect you and reform your children. Then he said: One who has recognized this (religion) is safe from the chastisement of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 312 Hadith Number 4 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Other Chain of Narrators that narrated about "will" of Muhammed (pbuh)

Narrated to us my father and Muhammad bin Hasan - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Saad bin Abdullah and Abdullah bin Ja’far Himyari, all of them from Abil Hasan Salih bin Abi Hammad and Hasan bin Tareef, all of them from Bakr bin Salih and narrated to us my father and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil and Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway; and Ahmad bin Ali bin Ibrahim; and Hasan bin Ibrahim bin Natana; and Ahmad bin Ziyad Hamadani - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim from his father Ibrahim bin Hashim from Bakr bin Salih from Abdur Rahman bin Saalim from Abi Baseer from Abi Abdullah (a.s.) that he said:

And narrated to us Abul Abbas Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Ishaq Taliqani (r.a.): Narrated to us Hasan bin Ismail: Narrated to us Saeed bin Muhammad bin Qattan: Narrated to us Abdullah bin Musa Ruyani Abu Turab from Abdul Azeem bin Abdullah Hasani from Ali bin Hasan bin Zaid bin Hasan bin Ali Ibne Abi Talib that he said: Narrated to me Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Ja’far from his father from his grandfather that:

Edited October 21, 2011 by Rasul

[Maula Dha Mallang]

PLEASE EXPLAIN HOW AHMAD AL HASSANS GRANDMOTHER HAD SEX WITH THE AWAITED IMAM (ATF). THANK YOU.

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

YamaniAhlulBayt313, on 17 October 2011 - 11:17 PM, said:

Are you trying to say the narrations I have posted are false? please answer this question, and then ill answer yours. The Ahlul Bayt have warned you about them yet you still look for reasons to follow them. Prove these narrations to be false if you do believe that. Because that is the message I am getting by reading your questions.

u are the one defending so u have to answer first

i am not saying they are false or true i just raised a question whom to follow then during those times?

none of the ansra answered this properly how do we know ahmed age is not cut off?

u need help no one is perfect right now only u guys think yamani is perfect what a joke. I dont even see why they would take time off to debate u people who twist hadiths, and run away!

No matter what time we are in, we have to follow the Ahlul Bayt(as) as much as we can. Simple as that. And forget the fact of whats in the past, why dont we look at the present, there is a proof of God on Earth calling you to Allah swt.

We know his age is not cut because he is still answering questions, his message has been out since 1999 and nothing has happened to him.

The Yamani is perfect:

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

An infallible will never lead you to sin, looking at this narraion he leads you to the right path, meaning that he does not lead you to sin. That would make him perfect.

(bismillah)

sigh once again, hadith shows the yamani, these hadith doesnt prove that ahmad is the yemeni.... what is wrong with you people. i am aware of the hadith of the yamani, these dont translate to ahmad at all. IN any way what so ever.

and secondly if you read the interpretations of those iyahs, then you will understand they are regarding scholars. dont take my word, take it from the most knowledgeable of translators/interpreters.

secondly the hadith you used doesnt relate to ahmad, it clearly states when the yamani appears. APPEARS, HIS BANNER, physical attributes? he has not appeared and he has not raised any sort of banner, and evidence from a website doesnt prove anything. for example. right now, i can create a website, call my self ahmad, claim that i lived where ever and using hadith form it around me. does that make me the yamani? of course it doesnt.

Tell me why do they not relate to Ahmad(as), you must explain your self, and dissect our proofs to show in what way they are wrong.

No tafsir says that those verses are for the scholars, rather they are for Ahlul Bayt(As). Are you telling me the scholars are mentioned more in the Quran than the Ahlul Bayt.

His banner has actually appeared, he did have hawzas which were destroyed by the Iraqi government on the call of the scholars there. His followers were killed in Iraq, and about 24 are still in prison just because of their belief.

^^^watch the video from 8:55 min

[Love-Of-Islam]

why do u ansar fail to answer a simple question really? as u say he is been around 1999, what about before? or right now ( he cant speak any other language)

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

ok here are my counter points.

this is going from bad to worse.

so:

(1) ahmad gheeta reads a book, thinks it is referring to him, and you believe it.

(2) he then says that voices in his head tell him he is right, and claims those voices are imam mahdi (atf)

(3) you believe that too.

am i right?

imam mahdi (atf) will come with actual relics and proofs of his station, as well as the ability to prove his ilm e ghayb.

if he can prove his station, and the signs are fulfilled of his return (such as the call from the sky) then i will believe whatever he says. ahmad gheeta has yet to answer anything which will prove he has any knowledge of the ilm e ghayb.

our masumeen (as) proved their station in the waking world - performing miracles, knowledge of the unknown, being open and meeting people and talking with delegations, inviting people to the truth by being the truth themselves and so on.

ahmad gheeta does none of these. he hides, and tells people to look into their dreams. even osama bin laden recorded videos of himself to prove he was alive and he actually existed. ahmad gheeta cant even do that

is basra part of yemen?

"if the yamani appears"...?

ahmad gheeta hasnt appeared, has he? he is living in hiding in some hole in iraq. where is his banner that we shall join under? not one of the signs of the yamani refer to him.

lets do simple maths.

(1) the first sign of the end times is not the rise of the yamani. he appears somewhere near the first quarter/ middle of events. even then its only 1 sentence in a whole chapter of signs.

(2) the yamani is from yaman

(3) ahmad gheeta is from basra

(4) the hadith does not say the yamani is in basra, he will rise in basra, or is from basra.

what you have basically done is say "OMG ahmad gheeta is the yamani" and "OMG a companion will rise from basra" then gone "OMG the yamani is therefore from basra"

this is qiyas. you are adding 2 and 2 and getting 22 instead of 4.

how do you know, for example, that khizr (as) will not appear from basra (as an example)? does it say the yamani will rise from basra?

so everyone before ahmad gheeta is a kaffir? that hadith is referring to al hujja ibn hassan (atf)

as shia, we believe our imams had numerous laqabs.

stop saying things i did not say, then arguing against them.

i never said they were 3 people. who said it was referring to 3 people?

this is really becoming ridiculous now.

(1) show me the actual arabic of the will, we will translate it ourselves.

(2) is ahmad gheeta the only person ever called "ahmad", that the prophet could ONLY be referring to him?

(3) the raj'ah is when all 12 imams will return to earth - i.e. after the 12th imam the 12 mahdis (11 imams + prophet) will return

wait - you guys keep bleating on like sheep about "AHMAD WILL HAVE THE WEAPON OF THE PROPHET AND THE WEAPON IS KNOWLEDGE".

my brother posted a hadith which imam (as) cursed those who claimed to have the weapon, and explained it is a literal sword.

now you are saying you do not know if it is literal or spiritual?

does he have the sword or not?

and btw my last question is EXPLAIN HOW HE IS THE GRANDSON OF IMAM MAHDI (ATF) IS IT TRUE YOU GUYS BELIEVE HIS GRANDMOTHER HAD SEX WITH IMAM MAHDI (ATF)

Your first point:

No voice in his head has told him that he is the Yamani, rather it was a physical meeting with the 12th Imam(as). So no you are wrong.

Second point:

Of course Imam Al Mahdi(as) will come with many relics, no one is denying that. What I am trying to say is that if Imam Ahmad(As) shows you a relic, you will come up with the same excuses, saying "no he made that himself" stuff along those lines. So it really wouldnt make any difference. Remember we are the ones who believe in the unseen God. We dont need to see to believe, rather we believe out of our hearts and brain.

Also you are talking about a heavenly sign, well 1000's of people from all around the world have had visions/dreams of Imam Ahmad(as), or the Ahlul Bayt(as) telling them to pledge allegiance to Ahmad(as). Some people who didnt even know about Ahmad(as) have had visions.dreams like that. We know that visions/dreams are proof and revelation in a way. People have had the Prophet(Sawa) telling them to pledge to Ahmad(as):

Prophet Muhammed(sawa):

“Who saw me in his sleep has indeed seen me, as Satan does not appear in my image, nor the image of any of my of successors, nor the image of any of their followers, and the true vision is a part of the

seventy parts of prophecy.” Bihar Al-Anwar, Vol 58, page 176

It is narrated from the Prophet  that he said,

“If the Time has approached, the vision of the Muslim will rarely lie

and the most truthful amongst you in vision is the most truthful in

his speech. Thus the vision of the believer is a part of forty-five parts

of prophecy.“ Sahih Muslim: Vol 7, page 52. Sunan Al-Tirmidi: Vol 3, page 363. Sharh Usool Al-Kafi- Al-

Mazndrani, Vol 11, page 476.

Imam Al-Retha  said,

“In the mornings of the Messenger of Allah , he would ask

his companions, ‘Are there any good tidings?’ Meaning the visions.” Al-Kafi Vol 8 page 90, the significant chapters in the origins of the Imams Vol 3 page 277, Bihar Al-Anwar Vol 85 page 177, the interpration of the two heavy weights’ light Vol 2 page 312

prophet  said,“There is nothing left from the good tidings of prophecy except for

the true visions, the Muslim would see them or they would be shown

to him.” Bihar Al-Anwar Vol 85 page 192, Sahih Muslim Vol 2 page 38, Sonan Al-Nesa’i Vol 2 page 217,Sahih Ibn Habban Vol 13 page 411, Kanz Al-Ommal Vol 15 page 368

It is narrated from Ali  that he said,

“The vision of the believer is considered as a speech of the Lord spoken upon him.” Bihar Al-Anwar, Vol 52, page 210. Kanz Al-Fawaid, page 211

Al-Allama Al-Majlisi narrated in the book of Bihar Al-Anwar from the book of Jama’ Al-Akhbar and in the book of Al-Ta’beer that the Imams said:

“The vision of the believer is true because his soul is pleasant, and his Faith is true, and when it [his soul] departs it receives from the angels. Thus it [the vision] is a revelation from Allah, the Noble and Omnipotent.” Bihar Al-Anwar, Vol 85, page 176

It is narrated from the Prophet , he said,

“The vision of the believer is a part of seventy-seven parts of prophecy.” Bihar Al-Anwar, Vol 85, page 210

These narrations above show us that dreams and visions are proof.

Third point:

Who said Ahmad Al Hassan has not appeared, he has appeared that is why we are here telling you all the great news. Who said he is hiding in Iraq, he is not. He is like a normal human being who works. No ones in hiding.

He does have deputies, who answer the questions for people sometimes, also that receive letter for him so Ahmad(as) can answer them back as well. And this is not something new, it is a sunnah of our previous Imams to have deputies as well, due to the dangers around them. This tradition had started from the 6th imam(as). I have posted a video for Ali Syed, showing him the banners.

Fourth point:

Of course we have been living in the end times for a while, but that does not take away the fact that Yamani is a sign of the end times.

The Yamani does not reside in Yemen, he does descend from there because the prophet(sawa) does as well. No narrations show us that the Yamani rises from Yemen. Now making connections with the other narrations that the Yamani is the first one to lead you to the 12th Imam(As) has to make him the first of the 313, and the first of the 313 is from basra, whose name is Ahmad(as). If that is not the case, then it is not logical and these hadiths would stop making sense. But that is not the case, once we make the connection any smart individual would understand by seeing the connection that these two individuals are one.

I know that Khidr basra because his name is not Ahmad. The man from Basra will be named Ahmad.

Fifth point:

Allah knows best, I am not one two judge. Imam Ahmad(aS) has said that after the 13th of Rajab statement in 2004(I believe) that whoever denies Ahmad(aS) has denied the Wilaya of Ali(as) as well. But I cannot saying anything about the people before Allah swt knows best. When Musa(as) appeared people asked him what will happen to the people before them, and he said the same thing that Allah knows.

And no the Hadith is the will of the prophet (sawa) and its refering to the first mahdi(as). Meaning that it is not Imam Al Mahdi(as).

Sixth point:

I do not know if you are refering to 3 people or not, I am asking you if that is what you believe.

Seventh point:

Here is the will of the prophet (sawa) in Arabic:

http://www.almahdyoon.org/adela/adela/wasiya.html

The signs while looking at this will and other hadiths, cleary show us that it cannot be anyone else but Imam Ahmad al Hassan al Yamani(as)

And this does not contradict the concept of Rajah. No one denied the concept of Rajah.

Eighth Point:

I cannot answer the question on the sword yet, I havent looked in to that area, once I do then surely I will tell you.

Last point:

That is a very filthy question, and I will not answer it at all. Please lets keep a level of respect.

(bismillah)

further point to the reply to my post, you still didnt answer me, the ayatollahs and the shia of ali as mourn imam hussein as death, they pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as, they visit the site of karbala when they can, and the hadith i posted about the rewards of visiting karbala etc, you still seem to think these scholars/people are kafir and will reside in hell?

I have answered Mdm, on that matter. That Allah knows best, we are not the ones to judge that, I do not have authority to say anything. Imam Ahmad(as) has made a statement on the 13th of Rajab in 2004(I believe) where the people who have denied Ahmad Al Hassan(as) have denied the Wilaya of Ali(As). When Musa(As) appeared to his people they asked what happened to the people before them he said Allah knows best. So it is the same concept now.

And narrated to us Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Hamza Alawi (r.a.): Narrated to us Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Husain bin Durust Sarrawi from Ja’far bin Muhammad bin Malik that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Imran Kufi from Abdur Rahman bin Abi Najran; and Safwan bin Yahya from Ishaq Ibne Ammar from Abi Abdullah as-Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:

“O Ishaq, shall I give you a glad tiding? I said: Please do, may I be sacrificed on you, O son of Allah’s Messenger. The Imam said: I saw in the scroll dictated by the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) and written by Amirul Momineen (a.s.) the following:

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is a Book from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise to Muhammad, His light, His ambassador, His veil and His proof. The trustworthy spirit (Jibraeel) has descended with it from the Lord of the worlds. O Muhammad! Magnify my names, be grateful for My bounties and do not deny My endowments. Verily I am Allah, there is no god but Me, the Destroyer of the oppressors, the Degrader of the tyrants and the Establisher of the Day of Judgment. Verily I am Allah, there is no god but Me. Whoever expects grace from other than Me or fears other than My justice and My punishment, I will punish him in such a way that I will not punish anybody in this manner in the worlds. Hence, worship only Me and rely only on Me. Indeed, I did not raise a messenger, completed his days and terminated his duration but that I appointed for him a successor. Certainly, I made you superior over all other Prophets and made your successor superior over all other successors. After him, I honored you with your two grandsons, Hasan and Husain. I made Hasan the mine of My knowledge after the end of the days of his father and I made Husain the treasure chest of My revelation, I honored him with martyrdom and sealed it for him with eternal bliss. So, he is the best of the martyrs and the highest of them in grade before Me. I have placed My perfect word with him and the complete proof near him. Through his progeny, I shall reward and punish.

The first of them is the chief of the worshippers and the adornment of My past friends, then his son (Muhammad) who resembles his grandfather al-Mahmood1, the splitter of My knowledge and the mine of My wisdom. Soon, those who doubt concerning his son Ja’far will be destroyed. He who rejects him has rejected Me. I speak the truth, I will indeed honor the position of Ja’far and make him happy vis-à-vis his Shias, his helpers and his friends. After him, I have selected Musa and there will be a blinding, dark corruption so that the spark of My obedience is not terminated, My proof is not hidden and My friends are not afflicted with misfortune. Beware! Whoever denies even one of them has denied My bounty. Whoever changes one verse from My Book, then indeed has attributed a lie unto Me. Then woe unto the liars, the deniers with the termination of the duration of My servant, My beloved and My chosen one, Musa. Verily, the one who denies the eighth is as if he has denied all My friends (Imams). Ali is My friend, My helper and the one upon whom I have placed Prophethood’s burden of proof and conferred upon him mastership. An arrogant devil2 will murder him. He will be buried in a city, which the righteous servant3 has built, next to the worst of My creatures. I speak the truth, I will soothe his eyes with Muhammad, his son and his successor after him. He is the heir of My knowledge, the mine of My wisdom, the place of My joy and My proof upon My creatures.

--------

1 A title of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.).

2 Mamoon al-Abbasi.

3 Dhulqarnain

None shall believe in him but that the paradise will be his abode and I will allow him to intercede for seventy of his family members, even if all of them are eligible for hell. I will complete his bliss with his son Ali, My friend, My helper, My witness amongst My creatures and My trustee upon My revelation. From him, I will bring forth Hasan, the caller to My path and the treasurer of My knowledge. Thereafter, I will complete this (chain of Imamate) with his son, م.ح.م.د. mercy for the worlds. He will possess the perfection of Musa, the brightness of Isa and the patience of Ayyub. Soon, My friends will be humiliated in his time and their heads will be gifted as trophies like the heads of the Turks and the Dailamites. They will be killed, they will be burnt, they will live in a state of fear, terror and trepidation. The earth will be colored with their blood and wailing and sobbing will be commonplace among their womenfolk. They are My true friends! Through them I will repel all blinding and dark mischief, remove the earthquakes and do away with the burdens and the chains.

أُولَئِكَ عَلَيْهِمْ صَلَوَاتٌ مِّن رَّبِّهِمْ وَرَحْمَةٌ وَأُولَئِكَ هُمُ الْمُهْتَدُونَ

They are those upon them is the blessings of their Lord and mercy. And they are the guided ones.1

--------

1 Surah Baqarah 2:157

Then Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.): O Ishaq, this is the religion of the angels and messengers. Protect it from those unworthy of it. May Allah protect you and reform your children. Then he said: One who has recognized this (religion) is safe from the chastisement of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 312 Hadith Number 4 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Other Chain of Narrators that narrated about "will" of Muhammed (pbuh)

Tell me one place where it says in that narration, that it is the will of ProphetÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå? Do you know what a will is?

The narration we have provided you actually says that it is the Prophets(saawa) will which he wrote on the night of his death.

For those who deny the visions and dreams.

[Love-Of-Islam]

why do u ansar fail to answer a simple question really? as u say he is been around 1999, what about before? or right now ( he cant speak any other language)

another question how do u noe we are living in end of times?

[Philip]

It will take a real person for me to pledge allegiance .. As far as I'm concerned I don't even know if he exists .. And your approach of saturating us with ahadeeth is not convincing .. How should someone like me even trust this guy is ahl Bayt ?? Or trust anything u guys say..

Personally I don't believe that an imam will ever come out claim to be infallible .. Where r his actions? His flag ? Anyway, I'm not perfect and my knowledge of authenticity of ahadeeth is very limited .. But I will never trust somebody who says : " I'm infallible .. And I know ilm alghayb .. "

As was said b4 vision is important .. Vision in real life as well. If he's alive then I expect to see this guy .. Maybe hear him too .. Get a feeling for his level of imam first-hand .. Pledging allegiance indirectly like that to somebody like that is not an option for ppl like me .. Time will tell

[Rasul]

Tell me one place where it says in that narration, that it is the will of Prophetصلى الله عليه وآله? Do you know what a will is?

The narration we have provided you actually says that it is the Prophets(saawa) will which he wrote on the night of his death.

There's no "Will" of Muhammad (pbuh) like you say: Why????

• Islam is religion of "Allah" (swt)
  
• Muhammad (pbuh) obeys Allah (swt)
  
• Muhammad (pbuh) is Messenger of Allah (swt)
  
• "Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire." Quran (53:3)
  
• Allah appointed (choosed) Imams (as) not Muhammad (pbuh)
  
• Thereafter Allahs "will" = Muhammad (pbuh) "will"
  

...and now read carefully what hadith says:

“O Ishaq, shall I give you a glad tiding? I said: Please do, may I be sacrificed on you, O son of Allah’s Messenger. The Imam said: I saw in the scroll dictated by the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) and written by Amirul Momineen (a.s.) the following:

In the Name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. This is a Book from Allah, the Mighty, the Wise to Muhammad, His light, His ambassador, His veil and His proof. The trustworthy spirit (Jibraeel) has descended with it from the Lord of the worlds (............)

"Then Imam Ja’far Sadiq (a.s.): O Ishaq, this is the religion of the angels and messengers. Protect it from those unworthy of it. May Allah protect you and reform your children. Then he said: One who has recognized this (religion) is safe from the chastisement of Allah, the Mighty and Sublime.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 1, Chapter 28, page 312 Hadith Number 4 by Shaykh A-Saduq

------

Shia brothers; you agree with me?

Edited October 22, 2011 by Rasul

[Rasul]

The Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him and his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb during the night of his death:

"O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper", and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said "O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi's. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada,The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Moussa Al Kadhim (The Patient).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Mandate of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

Let Analyse the hadith;

"after them there will be twelve Mahdi's."

"Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. "

This contradicts with many Sahih hadith some of them I am going to write now.

Narrated to us Ahmad bin Ziyad bin Ja’far Hamdani: Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from his father from Abdus Salam bin Salih Harawi that he said: Informed us Waki bin Jarrah from Rabi bin Saad from Abdur Rahman bin Salit that he said: Husain Ibne Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a.s.) said:

“From us there are twelve Mahdis, the first of whom is Amirul Momineen Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a.s.) and the last of whom is my ninth descendant. And he is truly the Imam al-Qaim. Allah will enliven the earth after its death through him. And through him triumph His religion over all the religions even if the polytheists may dislike this. There will be occultation for him during which communities will apostize but others will remain steadfast on religion. They will be tortured and told: If you are true when will this promise be fulfilled? Know that one who observes patience during those tribulations will be like one who fights the holy war under the command of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.).”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 30, page 1, Hadith Number 3 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Yahya al-Attar from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah Ibne Salt Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said:

“I, Abu Baseer and Muhammad bin Imran, slave of Abu Ja’far (a.s.) were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: We are the twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore once or twice that he had heard it from him. Abu Baseer said: But I have heard it from Abu Ja’far (a.s.).”

A similar tradition is narrated to us by Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ahmad bin Walid(r.a.) that he said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah bin Salt al-Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Samaa-a bin Mehran.

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 16 & 17 Hadith Number 6 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Ishaq Taliqani (r.a.): Narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad Hamdani: Narrated to us Abi Abdullah Asimi from Husain bin Qasim bin Ayyub from Hasan bin Muhammad bin Sama-a from Thabit Saigh from Abu Baseer from Abi Abdullah Sadiq (a.s.) that he heard him say:

“From us there will be twelve Mahdis. Six have passed and six are remaining. Allah will do with the sixth as He pleases.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 20 Hadith Number 13 by Shaykh A-Saduq

Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Ishaq (r.a.): Narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad Hamdani: Narrated to us Ja’far bin Abdullah: Narrated to me Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said: I, Abu Baseer, Muhammad bin Imran, the slave of Abi Ja’far were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say:

“We are the twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore twice that he had heard it from him.”

Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 20 Hadith Number 15 by Shaykh A-Saduq

he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer

• 
  This contradicts to belief of (Ansar's)
  
• He has three names?
  
• Abdollah
  
• Ahmad
  
• The Mahdi
  

• Yamani???????
  
• Al-Hassan?????
  

[YamaniAhlulBayt313]

It will take a real person for me to pledge allegiance .. As far as I'm concerned I don't even know if he exists .. And your approach of saturating us with ahadeeth is not convincing .. How should someone like me even trust this guy is ahl Bayt ?? Or trust anything u guys say..

Personally I don't believe that an imam will ever come out claim to be infallible .. Where r his actions? His flag ? Anyway, I'm not perfect and my knowledge of authenticity of ahadeeth is very limited .. But I will never trust somebody who says : " I'm infallible .. And I know ilm alghayb .. "

As was said b4 vision is important .. Vision in real life as well. If he's alive then I expect to see this guy .. Maybe hear him too .. Get a feeling for his level of imam first-hand .. Pledging allegiance indirectly like that to somebody like that is not an option for ppl like me .. Time will tell

Salam,

Brother you have brought up some good points. To that I can say this brother, did we ever have to look at any of the Imams(as) to know that they do exist. Did we have to look at their pictures to believe in them. No we did not. We are the believers of the unseen.

Now brother about the hadith, and making connections. Look how the Christians had to recognize Muhammed(sawa) basically Jesus(as) telling them after me there will be Ahmad. How did people recognize that Prophet Muhammed(sawa) was the Prophet? The true believers actually made the connections. While the others denied him. Think about how the Jews denied Jesus(as), they were like how can he out of all the people be the Messiah? They always cursed and mocked the believers. The same is happening now.

Now about him being a descendant of the Mahdi(as), that he is and we have proof for it. If you would like to see his family tree we will show it to you, and show you that it is confirmed by the other tribes in Basra. You do not have to trust me.

His actions can be seen in his books, and when Imam Al Mahdi(as) gives him the order to start the revolution then it will start. When we look at the hadith of the Yamani(aS) we can see that he never leads you to sin, that would mean he is an infallible because no infallible would ever lead you to sin. I have posted a video above of the ansar in Iraq out in the streets with the flags and the banners. Also Imam Ahmads(as) hawzas were destroyed, and many ansars were killed, and many also taken to prison. Look none of us are perfect we all have our flaws, but if the narration says the Yamani leads you to the right path and takes you away from hell(im paraphrasing) then that means he is an infallible. And every Imam has ilm ghayb, we cannot deny that.

Brother, have we seen the rest of the Imams and Prophets in person? No we havent, but why do we believe in them? You want to hear him, I can provide you with his speech right now:

Well all Ill say is look into this with an open heart before its to late.

Let Analyse the hadith; This contradicts with many Sahih hadith some of them I am going to write now. Narrated to us Ahmad bin Ziyad bin Ja’far Hamdani: Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from his father from Abdus Salam bin Salih Harawi that he said: Informed us Waki bin Jarrah from Rabi bin Saad from Abdur Rahman bin Salit that he said: Husain Ibne Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a.s.) said: “From us there are twelve Mahdis, the first of whom is Amirul Momineen Ali Ibne Abi Talib (a.s.) and the last of whom is my ninth descendant. And he is truly the Imam al-Qaim. Allah will enliven the earth after its death through him. And through him triumph His religion over all the religions even if the polytheists may dislike this. There will be occultation for him during which communities will apostize but others will remain steadfast on religion. They will be tortured and told: If you are true when will this promise be fulfilled? Know that one who observes patience during those tribulations will be like one who fights the holy war under the command of the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.).” Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 30, page 1, Hadith Number 3 by Shaykh A-Saduq Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali Majilaway and Muhammad bin Musa bin Mutawakkil - May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Yahya al-Attar from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffar from Abi Talib Abdullah Ibne Salt Qummi from Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said: “I, Abu Baseer and Muhammad bin Imran, slave of Abu Ja’far (a.s.) were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: We are the twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore once or twice that he had heard it from him. Abu Baseer said: But I have heard it from Abu Ja’far (a.s.).” Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 16 & 17 Hadith Number 6 by Shaykh A-Saduq Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Ishaq Taliqani (r.a.): Narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad Hamdani: Narrated to us Abi Abdullah Asimi from Husain bin Qasim bin Ayyub from Hasan bin Muhammad bin Sama-a from Thabit Saigh from Abu Baseer from Abi Abdullah Sadiq (a.s.) that he heard him say: “From us there will be twelve Mahdis. Six have passed and six are remaining. Allah will do with the sixth as He pleases.” Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 20 Hadith Number 13 by Shaykh A-Saduq Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ibrahim bin Ishaq (r.a.): Narrated to us Ahmad bin Muhammad Hamdani: Narrated to us Ja’far bin Abdullah: Narrated to me Uthman bin Isa from Sama-a bin Mehran that he said: I, Abu Baseer, Muhammad bin Imran, the slave of Abi Ja’far were in a house in Mecca. Muhammad bin Imran said: I heard Abi Abdullah (a.s.) say: “We are the twelve Mahdis. Abu Baseer asked: Did you really hear this from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)? He swore twice that he had heard it from him.” Kamal Al-Deen Volume 2, Chapter 33, page 20 Hadith Number 15 by Shaykh A-Saduq

• This contradicts to belief of (Ansar's)
• He has three names?
• Abdollah
• Ahmad
• The Mahdi

• Yamani???????
• Al-Hassan?????

Abdullah=servant of God

Ahmad= Ahmad Al Hassans name

Mahdi= well hes a descendant of the 12th Imam(As). Also Mahdi means rightly guided so both ways go.

How do the beliefs contradict anything? the imams are mahdis meaning that they are rightly guided arent they? I dont get how it contradicts anything.

What you have given is not the will of the Prophet(saawa) on his death bed.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

Abi Jaafer(Imam Muhammad Al Baqer)he said to Hakam:O Hakm we are all risers with the command of Allah Hakm asked:"Are you the Mahdi?"He said:We all guide to Allah."

v.1 p.536 Kafi

Hear it clearly tells us that all the Imams were Mahdis(guiders) and risers.

These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them.

there is no contradiction

the bit in red is referring to the raj'ah - i.e. after imam mahdi (atf) shahadat, all 11 imams before him and the prophet (pbuh) will return one by one and lead humanity one more time before judgement day.

everything that will happen, has happened.

therefore "after the 12 imams" there will be "12 mahdis".

all masumeem are messiahs. all are "annointed ones".

dont you know anything :huh:

[Philip]

Salam, Brother you have brought up some good points. To that I can say this brother, did we ever have to look at any of the Imams(as) to know that they do exist. Did we have to look at their pictures to believe in them. No we did not. We are the believers of the unseen. Now brother about the hadith, and making connections. Look how the Christians had to recognize Muhammed(sawa) basically Jesus(as) telling them after me there will be Ahmad. How did people recognize that Prophet Muhammed(sawa) was the Prophet? The true believers actually made the connections. While the others denied him. Think about how the Jews denied Jesus(as), they were like how can he out of all the people be the Messiah? They always cursed and mocked the believers. The same is happening now. Now about him being a descendant of the Mahdi(as), that he is and we have proof for it. If you would like to see his family tree we will show it to you, and show you that it is confirmed by the other tribes in Basra. You do not have to trust me. His actions can be seen in his books, and when Imam Al Mahdi(as) gives him the order to start the revolution then it will start. When we look at the hadith of the Yamani(aS) we can see that he never leads you to sin, that would mean he is an infallible because no infallible would ever lead you to sin. I have posted a video above of the ansar in Iraq out in the streets with the flags and the banners. Also Imam Ahmads(as) hawzas were destroyed, and many ansars were killed, and many also taken to prison. Look none of us are perfect we all have our flaws, but if the narration says the Yamani leads you to the right path and takes you away from hell(im paraphrasing) then that means he is an infallible. And every Imam has ilm ghayb, we cannot deny that. Brother, have we seen the rest of the Imams and Prophets in person? No we havent, but why do we believe in them? You want to hear him, I can provide you with his speech right now:

Well all Ill say is look into this with an open heart before its to late.

thanks brother for the response .. i will look into everything concerning your claims .. in further details .. until then i better stay quiet. btw i prayed the third prayer for Allah to make this issue clear .. and in a very holy place as well hamdiLah .. no dreams about this yet.

will research further and let you know if i find any strong enlightening arguments for / against this claim.

fi sabeel eLah

(salam)

[Love-Of-Islam]

the bit in red is referring to the raj'ah - i.e. after imam mahdi (atf) shahadat, all 11 imams before him and the prophet (pbuh) will return one by one and lead humanity one more time before judgement day.

everything that will happen, has happened.

therefore "after the 12 imams" there will be "12 mahdis".

all masumeem are messiahs. all are "annointed ones".

dont you know anything :huh:

all they know is how to copy/paste hadiths then run away

[Rasul]

Abdullah=servant of God

Ahmad= Ahmad Al Hassans name

Mahdi= well hes a descendant of the 12th Imam(As). Also Mahdi means rightly guided so both ways go.

How do the beliefs contradict anything?

are you kidding? :lol:

Yamani is not him because he has only 3 names ;)

• Abdullah
  
• Ahmad
  
• Mahdi
  

+ Hadith say Amed not Ahmed Al-Hassan

(you belive in) Ahmed Al-Hassan Al-Yamani vs Ahmed al-Abdullah al-Mahdi (hadith talks about)

clear contradictions :D

[Ali H Syed]

(bismillah)

you say we cannot judge, yes let us not judge, but when our imam as are telling us the rewards and the characteristics of the true believers, as mentioned above, you can draw lines. now i dont feel to copy and paste my response, to the rewards of the ones who pledge allegiance to imam mahdi as, and the ones who mourn imam hussein as, but its pretty clear to me who the true believers are.