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In the Name of God بسم الله

Who Is Ahmad Al Hassan?


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What do you mean he came forth with the will? What is ''coming forth with a will''?

The Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuhap wrote his will in the night of his death, and Ahmad a.s was the first person to use that will as a Hujja"alibi"onto all the Muslims. In that will its mentioned that there are 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis after them. The first Mahdi is Ahmad a.s. and every infallible must come with a text to the people to show them that he is a Hujja.

The Prophet Muhammad (may peace be upon him and his family) said to Ali Ibn Abi Taleb during the night of his death: "O Father of Al Hassan, bring me a leaf and a paper", and he dictated his will until he came to a position where he said "O Ali, there will be twelve Imams and after them there will be twelve Mahdi's. You, O Ali, are the first of the twelve Imams, God has named you in his heavens Ali Al Mortada,The Prince of the believers, Grand truthful, the bright Farouq (Judge and differentiating between true and false), the trusted, and the Mahdi (rightly guided). These names may not be truly attributed to other than you. O Ali, you are my guardian on my own family, their living and their dead. My women, whom you maintain shall find me tomorrow, and whom you reject I am acquitted of her. I will not see her and she will not see me on the day of resurrection, and you are the successor (Khalifa) on my nation after me. If the day of death comes to you, hand it over to my son Hassan the very beneficial. Then if the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to my son Al Hussein, the Martyr, the Pure and the Assassinated. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, the master of the servants and worshipers Ali.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Baqir.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Jaâfar Al Sadiq (the honest).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Moussa Al Kadhim (The Patient).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Reda.If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohamed Al Thiqa (The Trustworthy).If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Ali Al Nasih (The Advisor). If the day death of comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Al Hassan Al Fadil. If the day of death comes to him, let him hand it over to his son, Mohammed the Mandate of the Holy Family of Mohamad Peace be upon them all. These are the twelve Imams. Then there will be twelve Mahdi's after them. then when Allah receiveth him, let him hand it over to his son, the first of the close ones, he has three names, one like mine and my Father's: Abdollah (Servant of God), Ahmad and the third name is The Mahdi (the guided) and he is the first Believer"

Testament of the Holy Prophet Mohammad, may peace be on him and his family was mentioned in the following references:

· Chaykh Tawssi, Ghayba li Tawssi p.150

· Chaykh Hor L'Amili, Itbat Lhodat vol.1 p.549

· Chaykh Hor L'Amili, Al'Iqad Min Alhajaa p.393-3

· Chaykh Hassan Ben Soulayman Al Hiliy, Mokhtassar Al Bassa'ir p.159-4

· Al Allama Lmajlissi, Bihar Al Anwar vol.53 p.147

· Al Allama Lmajlissi, Bihar Al Anwar vol.36 p.260

· Chaykh Abdo Allah Albahrani, Al'awalim vol.3 p.236

· Assayid Hachim Albahrani, Ghayat almoram vol.1 p.370

· Assayid Hachim Albahrani, Al Insaf p.222

· Al Fayd Al Kachani, Nawadir Al Akhbar p.294-9

· Chaykh Al Mirza Annouri, Annajm Attaqib vol.2 p.71

· Assayid Mohammad Mohammad Sadiq Assadr , Tarikh Ma Baad Addohour p.641-11

· Achaykh Al Mayanji, Makatib Arrassoul vol.2 p.96

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oh god here we go again.

listen you monkeys on pc's. stop trying to write the complete works of shakespeare. listen carefully.

you say ahmad gheeta has "the will of the prophet"

i assume by this, you mean the actual original document.

i do not believe you.

show it to me. scan or photograph or whatever.

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The Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuhap wrote his will in the night of his death, and Ahmad a.s was the first person to use that will as a Hujja"alibi"onto all the Muslims. In that will its mentioned that there are 12 Imams and 12 Mahdis after them. The first Mahdi is Ahmad a.s. and every infallible must come with a text to the people to show them that he is a Hujja.

Okay awesome. Now could you go ahead and translate what Majlisi (ra) said about that hadith? Can you also translate and copy the Rijaal of it?

Plus what MDM said is also quite a normal question to answer. You have quite the claim to make, so at least show us the original document. Scan it. Prove it.

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I don't understand. If the Will is weak, who then cares?</p>

First of all weve been through this many times, you were proven wrong in all the previous pages. Specially about the will. Many of the classical, and contemporary scholars have accepted this will of the holy Prophetصلى الله عليه وآله. You need to bring your evidence, that this will is weak, not just a clip from you videos. Also are you putting an accusation on our Prophet(sawa) that he did not write a will?

And the Mirza AlNoori(AlTabrasi) in Najem AlThaaqeb 2/71 when he informed with proof about the offspring for Imam Al Mahdi a.s when he said:It is narrated from AlToosi with a reliable source from Imam Al Saadeq a.s about a report mentioning some of the wills of the Messenger of Allah pbuhap to Prince of the believers pbu him in the night of his death and in one of its mentioning says:"and when death comes to him let him hand it over to his son the first of the close ones"

Gaibat Al Toosi from Sheikh Al Toosi"The leader of the Shia sect"p.156-We have said:"And what has lead to its authenticity,the Shia Imamya see it on the way of Tawaater(definite degree of surety)disregarding the others,and the way it has been authentic is present in the books of the Imamya"

Edited by Ahmad 313
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Abu_zar: Then please tell me why he cannot answer my questions?

Who said he can’t brother? There are 9 books issued full of questions and answers, now are your questions sensible in the first place? I mean is it like some questions I saw in this post talking about tell me what I mean by this word or whatever from nonsense requests to an infallible? Or is it about interpretation of a verse for example, because Ahlul Bait said if someone claimed ask him about the Great Things.

Why do you call Mr. Ahmad al Hassan imam? If you consider him first Mehdi, you must know that a hadeeth, propagated and quoted much by ansars, prohibits calling him imam. Now do not tell me that it is same as imam Khmeini. No Hadeeth has stopped calling Ayatollah Khomeini or even the prayers leading scholar of my local mosque, as imam. But our 5th and 6th imam has specifically said in a hadeeth quoted on the very front of www.the-savior.com: And about Abu Baseer said: (("I told Al Sadiq, Ja'far Bin Mohammad (A.S), “O son of the Prophet, I once heard your father (A.S) saying that after the Qa'em there shall be twelve Imams”, and then he corrected, “He actually said twelve Mahdis and not twelve Imams. They are from our followers (Shiite), who shall call upon people to support us and identify our right.”)) Kamal Al Din (Perfectionism of Religion) chapter 2, page 358. Ameen Abuzar

Abu_zar:

Firstly: Imam Assadiq (a.s) didn’t deny that the Mahdies are Imams in this narration but he wanted to correct for Abu Baseer what he had heard from Imam Al-Baqir (a.s) and to stick to the words of the Hadith that was reported from him (a.s). this is clear from what he said (a.s) : “He actually said twelve Mahdis and not twelve Imams.” As Imam Assadiq wasn’t denying the imamate but correcting what was told by his father.

Secondly: He (a.s) said: “They are from our followers (Shiite), who shall call upon people to support us and identify our right”.

When he (a.s) described them to be Shia means they have a high rank because the word “Shia” isn’t designated except to the special Awliyah and it’s not “playing down their importance” as you understood. But rather this description means they have high rank and degree as Allah (swt) described Ibraheem and he is a Ulu-Alazm prophet with great rank to be from the Shia of Noah (a.s) : “ and from his Shia is Abraham" Assafat: 83 (وَإِنَّ مِن شِيعَتِهِ لَإِبْرَاهِيمَ) الصافات:83

Thirdly: this duaa is for Aamal of Friday in Mafatih Al-Jinan, very familiar to many, it is recommended to recite it and I took a picture from the book I have, it is on page 85... you can all go and check it now!

j64qhl.jpg

The part of phrase highlighted is “and the Imams from his sons/descendants” which proves that the Mahdies should be followed and are infallible Imams.

e5k220.jpg

This is another one mentioned in Mafatih Al-Jinan page 215, Duaa of 3rd day of Shabaan ..

ivv1hc.jpg

“The Imams from his progeny.... and the successors/guardians from his Eitrah after their Qa’im and Ghaiba”

There are many other hadiths like the will of prophet Muhammad...

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First of all you need to relax on the video promotion, im sure the whole world knows about it now. Its actually getting annoying.

I think you need to understand that we have said already the "Imams" have a higher rank then the "Mahdis" but that does not take away the fact that they are Imams does it, even if they are lower in ranks. For example out of the 12 imams there were some with higher ranks then the others. I overall do not get your point in what your trying to say, you did not disprove anything. You have also called the will of the prophet(sawa) weak, at the same time your ready to analyze. Please answer the question in a more logical way.

Also prove that the ulema have graded the will as weak, why are you ignoring the references which I have provided you with. All the classical ulema have not said what you are saying. You are putting lies on the ulema. Why? Who are you to grade something as weak, you honestly are starting to seem like some psychopath. The references are provided in the other page but just for you ill post them again.

AlJame'a is the Golden chain from Toosi(Silsila Al Thahabya) to the book of Al-Bazoofri"Al-Hussain ibn Abaydallah Al-Gathaa'eri and Ahmad ibn Abdoon.And Istibsaar Sheikh Al-Toosi says"And what I have mentioned from Abi Abdullah Al-Hussain in Sufyan Al-Barzoofri Ahmad ibn Abdoon and Al-Hussein ibn Abaydallah reported me it. AlIstibsaar v.4 p.342

AlBazooferi(Sheikh that is Thiqa,from our companions)Khatemat Al Wasa'el p.177 Hur Al Ameli

#1Ahmad in Abdulwahaad(Rijal AlToosi p.413-414 5988)

"Everything he narrated is accepted"

Amal Al-Amaal AlHur Al-Amili v.2 p.16-17

"And what he approved is reliable from what is corrected

from the Sheikh"

Mustadrakat Ilm Alhadeeth AlSheikh Ali AlNamazi AlShahroodi v.1 p.359-360 1157 "He is praised and his narrations are saheeh"

Mujam Al-Rijal Alhadeeth Al-Sayed Al-Khoei v.2 p.152 655

"he is a Thiqa because he is a scholar from Najaashi"

#2 AlHussein Ibn Abaydallah Al-Gada'eri Rijal Al-Najashi p.68-69

166 he says:

"All his narrations are acceptable from his scholars"

"he is our sholar May Allah be pleased with him"

Rijal Al-Toosi p.425 6117

"We have heard of him and we have accepted all his narrations"

Mujam Rijal AlHadeeth Sayed AlKhoei v.7 p.22-23 3940

"we cant refuse the mans' authenticity"

"He is from the sides of Sheikh Al-Najaashy and all his scholars are reliable(Thuqaat)

#3Abi Abdullah Al-Hussain ibn Ali ibn SufyanRijal Al-Najashi p.67-68 -162

"A scholar that is thiqa(reliable) a great friend of ours"

Sheikh Toosi in Rijalaho p.423 6092

"He is valuable and his apellation is Aba Abdullah"

Wathqa Alama Al-Hili Khalasat Al-Aqwaal p.115

"Sheikh that is Thiqa(reliable),a great friend of ours

and valuable"

#4Ali ibn Sinaan Al-Musali AlAdl

Sheikh Al-Namaazi Al-Shahroodi in his book Mustadrakaat Ilm Al-Rijaal Al-Hadeeth 10071

"He is the correcter"

"well respected narrations that assist its fineness and completeness"

#5Ali ibn Hussein

Rijal Al-Najaashi p.261-262 -684 he says

"One of the grand scholars of his times,and the head of them in knowledge,and their jurist,and their Thiqa(reliable).

Rijal Al-Toosi p.432 6191 he says:

"Thiqa(reliable) he has many compilations we have mentioned them in the Fihrast"

#6 Ahmad ibn Muhammad Al-Khaleel

Sheikh Ali Al Numaazi Al-Shahroodi in his book Ilm Al-Rijaal AlHadeeth 1532 he says:

"It assists that he is fine and complete"

AlSudooq used his narration from Jaafer ibn Muhammad Al-Alawi Al-Areethi by Ali ibn Muhammad ibn Jaafer Al-Ahwaazi with hadeeth Fawaatem for Fathaa'el Al-Shia Book of Imaan p.122 v.68 p.76 Mustadrakat Ilm Al-Rijaal AlHadeeth v.1 p.434

AlGaiba p.103 from Ali ibn Sinaan AlMusili Al Adel from Ahmad ibn Muhammad AlKhaleel from Muhammad ibn Saaleh Al-Hamdaani narration on their names and their qualities from Muftathab Al-Athar in this chain of trasmission v.9 p.125 v.36 p.216

#7Jaafer ibn Ahmad AlMasri

Sheikh Ali Al-Namaazi AlShahroodi Mustadrakaat Ilm Rijal Al-Hadeeth 2533

"He has a very respected narration v.2 p.143"

Tareekh Al-Islam AlThahabi v.23 p.139

"Mirza Al-Noori says that when the(majority(Ahlulsunna))criticize the narrations that aid the Shia is a proof that the scholars are reliable"

#8AlHassan ibn Ali

Rijal Al-Najaashi p.66 155

"The speaker is thiqa reliable"

Mustadrakaat Ilm Al-Rijaal Alhadeeth Sheikh Ali AlNamazi AlShahroudi v.3 p.156 44181

"the narrator is thiqa reliable"

#9Ali ibn Sabaya(father of Hussein ibn Ali Al-Masri who is thiqa)

======================================================================================

Gaibat Al Toosi from Sheikh Al Toosi"The leader of the Shia sect"p.156-We have said already:"And what has lead to its authenticity,the Shia Imamya see it on the way of Tawaater(definite degree of surety)and the way it has been authentic is present in the books of the Imamya".

And the Mirza AlNoori(AlTabrasi) in Najem AlThaaqeb 2/71 when he informed with proof about the offspring for Imam Al Mahdi a.s when he said:It is narrated from AlToosi with a reliable source from Imam Al Saadeq a.s about a report mentioning some of the wills of the Messenger of Allah pbuhap to Prince of the believers pbu him in the night of his death and in one of its mentioning says:"and when death comes to him let him hand it over to his son the first of the close ones"

NOW IF YOU SAY ITS WEAK, YOU HAVE WENT AGAINST THE ULEMA!

Edited by Ahmad 313
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Insha said: I could "ask anyone who met Ahmed Ismail", but I don't know that they are being truthful, or that he even really exists since he is so shy of public appearances.

Was prophet Muhammad shy of public appearances when he escaped to Ghar, was Moses shy when he went out of the city frightened .. *sigh* read the Qur’an may Allah enlighten your way.

Insha: How do you know my question is stupid? That sounds like fear to me, fear that Ahmed Ismail Gata cannot answer a simple question to prove his claim. If the question will determine if he is a true Imam or not, then NOT asking it is quite stupid.

If you’re asking a good question that you want to recognize the truth with it, then Inshallah you’ll get anyhow… I think you saw an earlier post of one of the members of Shiachat asking Fiqh questions and Sayyed Ahmad Al-Hassan (a.s) answered him… the answers take long to reach because there are millions of people sending letters. Be patient. Or if you can ask your question here perhaps it’s already answered in the 9 books of questions and answers of Imam (a.s).

Abu_zar: • Imams have record of holding munazara with people of all walks of life. Mr. Ahmad al Hassan claims to challenge munazara to scholars. Yet when I request him to meet me and answer questions on live TV, he does not accept. Why? If he can answer, he has a chance to impress millions of people.

Are you a grant Marji e? or a student in hawza, follower of certain Marj’ie, high degree student etc? It seems you’re from the second group (correct me if I am wrong) and thus someone in your degree will debate you on TV or wherever, we already had debates with the Wahabis on TV and as usual those people prisoned the Ansar for no reason and then released them after around 40 days or more.... so don't think a sane Ahlul Bait follower would hand them over to enemies, but protect them with everything they have ... we are calling people since long time to debate on TV and thanks for your offer, we appreciate it. Name us the channel name and give us more details and anything to contact with that channel to arrange it...Waiting for your reply!

MAFHHZB: This is the one Zolfigarr quotes to show us the Ulemas or Translators are inserting words from their pockets by removing the brackets:

[ 328 ]وإن من علامات خروجه: خروج السفياني من الشام، وخروج اليماني (من اليمن) وصحية من السماء في شهر رمضان، ومناد ينادي من السماء باسمه و اسم أبيه. 8 - حدثنا محمد بن الحسن بن أحمد بن الوليد رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد ابن الحسن الصفار قال: حدثنا أحمد بن محمد بن عيسى، ومحمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب والهيثم بن أبي مسروق النهدي، عن الحسن بن محبوب السراد، عن علي بن رئاب عن أبي حمزة الثمالي، عن أبي جعفر عليه السلام قال: سمعته يقول: إن أقرب الناس إلى الله عزوجل وأعلمهم به وأرأفهم بالناس محمد صلى الله عليه والائمة عليهم السلام، فادخلوا أين دخلوا وفارقوا من فارقوا - عنى بذلك حسينا وولده عليهم السلام - فإن الحق فيهم وهم الاوصياء ومنهم الائمة فأينما رأيتموهم فاتبعوهم وإن أصبحتم يوما لاترون منهم أحدا فاستغيثوا بالله عز وجل، وانظروا السنة التى كنتم عليها واتبعوها، وأحبوا من كنتم تحبون و أبغضوا من كنتم تبغضون، فما أسرع ما يأتيكم الفرج. 9 - حدثنا أبي، ومحمد بن الحسن رضي الله عنهما قالا: حدثنا سعد بن عبد الله قال: حدثنا محمد بن الحسين بن أبي الخطاب، ومحمد بن عيسى، عن محمد بن أبي عمير، عن جميل بن دراج، عن محمد بن مسلم قال: قال أبو جعفر عليه السلام: ما أجاب رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله أحد قبل علي بن أبي طالب وخديجة عليهما السلام ولقد مكث رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله بمكة ثلاث سنين مختفيا خائفا يترقب، ويخاف قومه والناس (1) - والحديث طويل أخذنا منه موضع الحاجة إليه -. 10 - حدثنا محمد بن إبراهيم بن إسحاق رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا أبو علي محمد ابن همام، عن جعفر بن محمد بن مالك قال: حدثني الحسن بن محمد بن سماعة قال: حدثنا أحمد بن الحارث، عن المفضل بن عمر، عن أبي عبد الله جعفر بن محمد الصادق عن أبيه أبي جعفر الباقر عليهما السلام قال: إذا قام القائم عليه السلام قال: " فررت منكم لما خفتكم(1) في مناسبة الحديث بالباب تأمل. الا أن يقال: ذكر بمناسبة ما ذكر في ذيل الحديث السابق " وانظروا السنة التى كنتم عليها " وهذا أيضا غير وجيه. (*)

This is the complete actual version which the celebrated scholar among the Ansars, Zolfigar, somehow skips and evades while referencing:

[330-331]. 16 - حدثنا محمد بن محمد بن عصام رضي الله عنه قال: حدثنا محمد بن يعقوب الكليني قال: حدثنا القاسم بن العلاء قال: حدثني إسماعيل بن علي القزويني قال: حدثنيعلي بن إسماعيل، عن عاصم بن حميد الحناط، عن محمد بن مسلم الثقفي قال: سمعت أبا جعفر محمد بن علي الباقر عليهما السلام يقول: القائم منا منصور بالرعب، مؤيد بالنصر تطوي له الارض وتظهر له الكنوز، يبلغ سلطانه المشرق والمغرب، ويظهر الله عزوجل به دينه على الدين كله ولو كره المشركون، فلا يبقى في الارض خراب إلا قد عمر، و ينزل روح الله عيسى بن مريم عليه السلام فيصلي خلفه، قال: قلت (1): يا ابن رسول الله متى يخرج قائمكم ؟ قال: إذا تشبه الرجال بالنساء، والنساء بالرجال، واكتفى الرجال بالرجال، والنساء بالنساء، وركب ذوات الفروج السروج، وقبلت شهادات الزور، وردت شهادات العدول، واستخف الناس بالدماء وارتكان الزنا وأكل الربا، واتقي الاشرار مخافة ألسنتهم، وخروج السفياني من الشام، واليماني من اليمن، وخسف بالبيداء، وقتل غلام من آل محمد صلى الله عليه وآله بين الركن والمقام، اسمه محمد بن الحسن النفس الزكية، وجاءت صيحة من السماء بأن الحق فيه وفي شيعته، فعند ذلك خروج قائمنا، فإذا خرج أسند ظهره إلى الكعبة، واجتمع إليه ثلاثمائة وثلاثة عشر رجلا. وأول ما ينطق به هذه الاية " بقية الله خير لكم إن كنتم مؤمنين " (2) ثم يقول: أنا بقية الله في أرضه وخليفته وحجته عليكم فلا يسلم عليه مسلم إلا قال: السلام عليك يا بقية الله في أرضه، فإذا اجتمع إليه العقد (3) وهو عشرة آلاف رجل خرج، فلا يبقى في الارض معبود دون الله عزوجل من صنم (ووثن) وغيره إلا وقعت فيه نار فاحترق. وذلك بعد غيبة طويلة ليعلم الله من يطيعه بالغيب ويؤمن به. (1) في بعض النسخ " خلفه، فقلت ". (2) هود: 88. (3) في بعض النسخ " فإذا اجتمع له العقد ". (4) في بعض النسخ " أبو لبيد المخزومى ". (*) –

So you don't look at the first hadith and go to the second because it suits with your conclusions? What about the first hadith? And what about the other references of this hadith that don’t even mention the word (from Yemen) neither within brackets or without…

Abu_zar: If you start counting how many hadeeth say that there will be 12 imams in total, or there will be 11 sons of Ali a.s and Fatima a.s as imam, you will lose count. For each hadeeth you quote, there will be 100s of hadeeth mentioning only 12 imams in total. I looked at Kamaluddin only and gave up as the number is too large.

The ones you quote, must be an occasion where someone either messed up the number or there was an error inquotation as we know has occurred time and again with ahadeeths.

Do you not ask yourself what the huge number of ahadeeths citing 12 imams in total telling you?

Please can you provide us with one hadith that say ONLY 12 Imams? No, it’s not there…. If we know that Ashab Al-Kisaa are 5, it doesn’t they are the only infallibles… no, there are Imams after them and also Mahdies….

Why do you neglect the 12 Mahdies Hadiths ? it can’t be missed as they are all authentic hadiths in the most authentic Shia books… they are even in the simple Mafatih Al-Jinan Book that is present in almost every single Shia house!

MAFHHZB: All sayyids from the lineage of Ahlulbayt we find today in the World are Yamani. So Ayatollah Sistani, a Kuffan, and a Seyyid, is also Yamani who is Dajjal for them. Ayatollah Khameni is Yamani although there is speculation that he could be Khorasani, i.e now he could be both Khorasani and Yamani combined.

If you mean Yamanis because of their lineage… then you understood wrong, because there is only ONE INFALLIBLE YAMANI, the one mentioned in the RIWAYA OF IMAM AL-BAQIR that whoever turns away from him is from the people of hell …..

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

and the rest can be called yamanis as to be his followers or any other thing..

about the question of age cut-off @apperance no its not u bought 1 example and i bought another one of ghulam ahmed who lived until he was 73! now tell me how did his age get cut off?

I don’t know which post you referred too, I meant about the one that there is a new book issued by Sayyed Ahmad Al-Hassan (a.s) + a new sermon with his voice

@Philip: it's sick how people discuss inheritance before the emergence of the imam to start with.

this is making omar abu bakr uthman & co. look like very decent people. at least they waited for the prophet to be gone.

what kind of topic of discussion is this??? sounds to me like a power-hungry kind of guy .. trying to convince everyone that he will rule the world or something .. and distract Muslim's attention on the 12th Imam .. who is clearly foretold by all schools of Islam. Even prophet Muhammad pbuh was not big on talking about inheritance and stuff .. so you want to tell me that your guy is following the sunnah of the prophet and understands Islam? you have no evidence .. you have no logic .. just a bunch of dreams by people that we don't know .. you really expect us to believe your friend's dreams, while you come up with conclusions that actually make no difference for us?

Are you trying to distract from our true objectives?? Killing Sufyani .. Killing Dajjal .. uniting this world in peace and justice??? ..

this topic is so useless and baseless, and surely a sign of the end-days.

peace

Don't be hasty Philip, May Allah enlighten your way. We still believe in the 12th Imam, Imam Mohammad bin Al-Hassan Al-Mahdy and we believe that he sent his messenger to collect the believers as we are in the End Times,,,, time of Revolution and establishing the Divine Justice Government,,, as you know that hadiths says that Mahdi will fill the earth with peace and justice after it's filled with injustice and tyranny... so this man sent by imam mahdi is the yamani mentioned by Imam Al-Baqir and his name is Ahmad and surname is Al-Hassan. The proves are mentioned in the preceded posts Inshallah if you got any question, you can put it forth and discuss it...

No one is losing anything here, we can have a good conversation and if someone is not conviced with the proves the other party is presenting,, then each can cntinue his way and May Allah guide us all to what is most pleasing for HIM.

@Maula Dha Malang: ^^ can i just add a small note into your excellent post brother, if the yamani has no connection with the country of yemen other than the same claim that any other sayed can make, where does it end? the khorasani will not be from khorasan? the hasanid will not be related to imam hassan ? ak maghribi will not come from al maghrib (thats the west, right?) the turk will not be from turkey?

Yamani and not Yemeni… difference in pronunciation + spelling.

This is a photo from the book of Ghaibat Al-Tosi, one of the most authentic Shia resources... the will of prophet Muhammad is fully mentioned and Sheikh Al-Tosi use is as a proof for the Imamate.. If anyone wants more photos of the Will, please do mention...

The Inner cover of the book:

29f9tn4.jpg

The Will of prophet Muhammad:

2r6o85y.jpg

2guy62b.jpg

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MAFHHZB: All sayyids from the lineage of Ahlulbayt we find today in the World are Yamani. So Ayatollah Sistani, a Kuffan, and a Seyyid, is also Yamani who is Dajjal for them. Ayatollah Khameni is Yamani although there is speculation that he could be Khorasani, i.e now he could be both Khorasani and Yamani combined.

Prove to me that hes even sayyid.

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ahmad313, so what you are saying is that ahmad gheeta does NOT possess the actual original will of the prophet (pbuh), was not the first to write about it, was not even involved in any way in anything spiritual. he basically read a book by better men than him and thought "hey! thats me".

and this is your great proof? thats the great will? thats what you are basing all your faith on?

you are beyond idiotic. i cant even find a word for how stupid you and your little friends are. may Allah guide you all and may ahmed gheeta die on the toilet.

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@ Malang

You have actually proven your self to be an idiot. You calim to be the follower of Ahlul Bayt(as) but at the same time you fail to be even following their manners one bit. Again you are a malang, and you seem to be representing the ones in the streets of Pakistan. Maybe that who you learn your manners from....

So what will the actual will do for you? Do you know the writings of the Prophets and the Imams(as) that youll be able to recognize that it is them who wrote it? Its going to be the same thing as in the books but in just there writing that you apparently recognize for some reason.

How is that proof, tell me if you see the actual "will" how will you know its the actual will?

Honestly your starting to prove that you have a short attention span or something, in other words "your a little slow"

So now, You look for the writings of the Imams? is that the proof your lookng for? Is that what you will base your faith on writings that you have never seen in your life?

May Allah increase your thinking skills, and guide you to the light of Ahlul Bayt(as), and give you a glimpse of their manners.

Edited by Ahmad 313
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MAFHHZB: All sayyids from the lineage of Ahlulbayt we find today in the World are Yamani. So Ayatollah Sistani, a Kuffan, and a Seyyid, is also Yamani who is Dajjal for them. Ayatollah Khameni is Yamani although there is speculation that he could be Khorasani, i.e now he could be both Khorasani and Yamani combined.

Prove to me that hes even sayyid.

But then the same can be said, Prove to me that Ahmad al Hassan is a sayyid.

And please guys avoid the insults (in general). This is not the Akhlaaq of the Prophet s.a.w.w

And also no pointing fingers to it's not me it's him etc. please :)

Edited by WhySoSerious?
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ahmad313....let me get this clear.

- ahmad gheeta does not, never has and never will posess any of the sacred artifacts of the masumeen (as). Imam mahdi (atf) does, for example the sword zulfiqar is with him (unless the engineer needs it for his job.....?)

- he hates ulema, but is relying on the ulema to verify the will as authentic

- he is by no means the first to know about the will. it is nothing new. it is nothing spectacular. it appears in all sorts of books down the ages.

- he basically is saying "yeah i read this book between fitting lights in houses, and reckon its talking about me".

what i am saying is correct?

and you are all basing your ENTIRE faith, on the fact that he reckons the will is talking to him, because his name is ahmad.

i think i have thought of a name to describe how stupid your little band of merry members is. shia-hmadiyya.

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@Maula Dha Malang: ^^ can i just add a small note into your excellent post brother, if the yamani has no connection with the country of yemen other than the same claim that any other sayed can make, where does it end? the khorasani will not be from khorasan? the hasanid will not be related to imam hassan ? ak maghribi will not come from al maghrib (thats the west, right?) the turk will not be from turkey?

Yamani and not Yemeni… difference in pronunciation + spelling.

so if thats the only thing you can pick on....that means you agree with everything else i wrote?

the yEmEni isnt from yemen....but everyone else described by the place they are from, are from that place. eg the khorasani is from khorasan, turk is from turkey.....yamani is from, er, basra. makes perfect sense, i have to be crazy to question that

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ahmad313, so what you are saying is that ahmad gheeta does NOT possess the actual original will of the prophet (pbuh), was not the first to write about it, was not even involved in any way in anything spiritual. he basically read a book by better men than him and thought "hey! thats me".

and this is your great proof? thats the great will? thats what you are basing all your faith on?

you are beyond idiotic. i cant even find a word for how stupid you and your little friends are. may Allah guide you all and may ahmed gheeta die on the toilet.

Not as idiotic as expecting someone to be carrying around a 1,400 year old piece of paper....seriously.

Especially when the statement is recorded in the books already.

The Prophet of Islam's advent was also foretold by previous Prophets, did he (pbuh) show up with 1,000's of years old signed and stamped parchments to prove his identity?

Edited by GreenLantern
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Astahghfirullah, where do you come out with this stuff? Non-Working Scholars are despised. Working scholars are prayed for.

What are you doing debating when you do not have the manners to speak even?

Why do you expect the Ansar to have the Will in paper form?

Why do you mock the profession of an engineer? Was not our Prophet (pbuh ahf) a shepherd?

It is not enough to call you a fool. Therefore i will leave it all to Allah. May He deal with you Justly.

And may He make the sincere ones see the light.

Fi Aman Illah

yeah whatever, you can no longer respond to my points so start pretending to be all mazloom. sure sign you are with falsehood.

answer me this, green lantern.

you believe that the will is talking about him, because his name is ahmad? you dont think thats a little bit stupid?

Not as idiotic as expecting someone to be carrying around a 1,400 year old piece of paper....seriously.

Especially when the statement is recorded in the books already.

The Prophet of Islam's advent was also foretold by previous Prophets, did he show up with 1,000's of years old signed and stamped parchments to prove his identity?

actually, just like him not being from yaman, just like him pretending to know what alef laam meem means, just like him having zero ilm e ghayb, just like him not actually having done anything of merit in his life, this is just another example of him being exposed as a fraud.

see, you have been making out all along that the will of the prophet is some great revelation. it is nothing of the sort. you retards believe that it is referring to him because his name is "ahmad". thats it. thats the sum total of your proof.

*if* you had the actual will of the prophet, that would be proof of his contact with the awaited imam woudnt it? since the actual will is in his posession. but since he doesnt have it....there is no proof.

tell me something, and this goes out to all of you MENSA qualifiers. apart from the fact his name is "ahmad". what other proof does he have again.....?

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actually, there is not one hadith which supposedly matches him, that can not be used to describe me, or millions of other random people just like me. what makes you sure they refer to him and him alone? he has not one unique quality, action, knowledge or artifact which makes him stand apart from anyone else.

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@ MDM and Love of Islam

How was the Prophet Muhammed (sawa) Prophesized by the prophets before him? Was it in a similar method or different? How will you know who the Yamani(as) is? Whats your method in figuring this out? Please answer my question and avoid going off topic.

But then the same can be said, Prove to me that Ahmad al Hassan is a sayyid.

And please guys avoid the insults (in general). This is not the Akhlaaq of the Prophet s.a.w.w

And also no pointing fingers to it's not me it's him etc. please :)

May Allah forgive us for our wrong doings, and give us patience.

Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) has come with his family tree proving his lineage. He descends from the 12th Imam(as). His family tree is verified by the other tribal members in Basra Iraq. And that is the method on how to verify a family tree by asking the other tribal members about it, from that specific location.

ahmad313....let me get this clear.

- ahmad gheeta does not, never has and never will posess any of the sacred artifacts of the masumeen (as). Imam mahdi (atf) does, for example the sword zulfiqar is with him (unless the engineer needs it for his job.....?)

- he hates ulema, but is relying on the ulema to verify the will as authentic

- he is by no means the first to know about the will. it is nothing new. it is nothing spectacular. it appears in all sorts of books down the ages.

- he basically is saying "yeah i read this book between fitting lights in houses, and reckon its talking about me".

what i am saying is correct?

and you are all basing your ENTIRE faith, on the fact that he reckons the will is talking to him, because his name is ahmad.

i think i have thought of a name to describe how stupid your little band of merry members is. shia-hmadiyya.

You just proved my point. Your asking for artifacts and what not then at the same time your saying it can be engineered. You are starting to not make any sense whatsoever. You are going to deny every single thing.

We pray for the Ulema who were righteous, who were the working scholars. For example Khomeini(ra) etc. The non working scholars are the ones who we do not support in any way.

Was not the Prophet Muhammed(sawa) mentioned in the scriptures, e.g. OT,NT. Yet people still denied him. Was Jesus(as) not mentioned in the scriptures, yet those same scholars who studied those scriptures denied him and tried to kill him? You are just like them in saying the will is nothing new it has been there for ages. There is a reason why our Prophet(sawa) wrote the will, there is a reason why Ahlul Bayt(as) have showed us the characteristics of individuals to come after them.

The name Ahmad can be looked at as one of the reason. Just like how the Prophet(sawa) was prophesized in the other scriptures as Ahmad. Yet people like YOU denied him. So if we go along with your method in finding out who the first Mahdi will be, we would not believe in Ahmad. Your method is indeed a very big failure. Im sure you would be the same who denied our holy Prophet.

Now answer my question that I addressed to you and Love of Islam above.

yeah whatever, you can no longer respond to my points so start pretending to be all mazloom. sure sign you are with falsehood.

answer me this, green lantern.

you believe that the will is talking about him, because his name is ahmad? you dont think thats a little bit stupid?

actually, just like him not being from yaman, just like him pretending to know what alef laam meem means, just like him having zero ilm e ghayb, just like him not actually having done anything of merit in his life, this is just another example of him being exposed as a fraud.

see, you have been making out all along that the will of the prophet is some great revelation. it is nothing of the sort. you retards believe that it is referring to him because his name is "ahmad". thats it. thats the sum total of your proof.

*if* you had the actual will of the prophet, that would be proof of his contact with the awaited imam woudnt it? since the actual will is in his posession. but since he doesnt have it....there is no proof.

tell me something, and this goes out to all of you MENSA qualifiers. apart from the fact his name is "ahmad". what other proof does he have again.....?

Show me one single narration saying the Yamani will be from Yemen. In its original form. Since I have came to this website you have been talking out of your mouth not using your head. You have not pointed anyone to one single narration for any of your claims. Provide us with narrations for what you say.

What are you talking about the actual will you acting like you know the writing of the Imams(as). Do you know there way of writing, if someone provides you with it will you believe? how will you know its them writing this? is this your method in know who the Mahdi is?

Your saying the will of our Prophet(sawa) is not special? are you out of your mind? It just shows how twisted you are. Man i feel bad for you, May Allah help you. It is revelation, whatever Ahlul Bayt say is with the will of Allah swt. Im surprized that you even believe in the 12 Imams with your twisted ideology, were you born into shia islam? its just crazy.

Your whole ideology is flawed and if you keep on rambling on, you will be exposed inshAllah.

Now answer my question that I addressed to you and Love of Islam. Because I assure you, you will not have a valid answer for that. Probably some next weird theory of yours. Your an example of someone who has went away from the path of Ahlul Bayt(as).

LOOOOOOOOOL ghulam ahmed did the SAME THING LOL

Laughing does not help your case at all. It is not proof of any sort. Please tell me did ghulam bring the will of the prophetÕáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå?

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"Twelve Mahdis are to be from us. First of them is Amir al-Mo'menin Ali Ibn Abi Talib , and the last is the Imam who rises by justice. Through him, God will revive the earth after its death , and let the real belief overcome other beliefs , in spite of the polytheists' dislike. He has a long occultation ,during which some will abandon their faith , and some will firmly stay in their belief. Then, they will be annoyed and asked : " When will this promise be fulfilled, if you are telling the truth ? " Truly , whoever withstands annoyance and denial of others during the occultation of Mahdi is like the one who fights by sword alongside the Prophet (pbuh ).

Imam Hussain (a.s) (Bihar al- Anwar, Vol. 51, p. 133)

OoooooooooOOOOoooooOOOOooooOOOOo Look at what I found Sub7anAllah Allah s.w.t guided me to this Al7amdulillah !!!

12 Mahdis, first is Imam Ali a.s

Last is Imam Mahdi a.j

That means those inbetween are the other 10 imams a.s

Yamani being a mahdi and what not is a load of rubbish !!

Let's see you counteract this ........

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"Twelve Mahdis are to be from us. First of them is Amir al-Mo'menin Ali Ibn Abi Talib , and the last is the Imam who rises by justice. Through him, God will revive the earth after its death , and let the real belief overcome other beliefs , in spite of the polytheists' dislike. He has a long occultation ,during which some will abandon their faith , and some will firmly stay in their belief. Then, they will be annoyed and asked : " When will this promise be fulfilled, if you are telling the truth ? " Truly , whoever withstands annoyance and denial of others during the occultation of Mahdi is like the one who fights by sword alongside the Prophet (pbuh ).

Imam Hussain (a.s) (Bihar al- Anwar, Vol. 51, p. 133)

OoooooooooOOOOoooooOOOOooooOOOOo Look at what I found Sub7anAllah Allah s.w.t guided me to this Al7amdulillah !!!

12 Mahdis, first is Imam Ali a.s

Last is Imam Mahdi a.j

That means those inbetween are the other 10 imams a.s

Yamani being a mahdi and what not is a load of rubbish !!

Let's see you counteract this ........

In the will of the Prophet Muhammed(sawa) it says that the first of the 12 Mahdis will be Ahmad. Now you tell me, is Imam Ali (as) Ahmad?

Another thing that we need to comprehend is that the 12 Imams are Mahdi's too. The word Mahdi means rightly guided. It shows us that they are rightly guided are they not? So that hadith does not contradict this message at all. Also the narrations say AFTER the Imams will appear 12 Mahdis.

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sorry ahmed313 brother MDM destroyed ur whole will thingy. The will he did not bring it WAS ALREADY IN THE BOOKS! how can u bring something when its already there before u

Was the Prophet sawa mentioned in the bible? If he was tell me wasnt that his proof against the Christians? Guess what it was already there before him. You havent answered my question that I had for you and MDM.

MDM must answer himself, for the nonsense he has talked. Everything he said doesnt make sense.

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How do you bring the Sunnat? It is already established, yet Ahadith say Imam Mahdi (a.s) will do it.

How do you bring the Will? It is already in the Books, yet Ahadith say Saheb Al Amr (a.s) will bring it.

Bringing the Will out in the manner it deserved. Nobody has done that yet, besides Ahmad Al Hassan (a.s)

Fi Aman Illah.

bro go read ahmad ghulam history and his books then we talk how similar ahamd and ghulam is. until then there is no point.

also today i saw the will and i say i bought the will back i fit the description, i am from basra, i am hiding but i am suppose to carry a sword 8 months instead i like to hide and show up on peoples dreams!

Imam mahdi (atj) will bring back the true islam completely DIFFERENT then ur will thing.

Was the Prophet sawa mentioned in the bible? If he was tell me wasnt that his proof against the Christians? Guess what it was already there before him. You havent answered my question that I had for you and MDM.

MDM must answer himself, for the nonsense he has talked. Everything he said doesnt make sense.

what?

you guys need to compare whats comparable not bring things out of ur hat and compare to it.

here u go: http://grammar.about.com/od/c/g/comparison2term.htm

look at the football example

Edited by Love-Of-Islam
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bro go read ahmad ghulam history and his books then we talk how similar ahamd and ghulam is. until then there is no point.

also today i saw the will and i say i bought the will back i fit the description, i am from basra, i am hiding but i am suppose to carry a sword 8 months instead i like to hide and show up on peoples dreams!

Imam mahdi (atj) will bring back the true islam completely DIFFERENT then ur will thing.

what?

you guys need to compare whats comparable not bring things out of ur hat and compare to it.

This is definitely comparable. The reason for that is that the Prophet was mentioned in a book. And in this situation we have a person Ahmad whose mentioned in a book as well. So why would that not be comparable?

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The working scholar of Ahmad Ismail Gatae, Ayatollah Muhammad Baqir Sadr calls Ahmad Ismail a cheat and a liar.

In his work, "A Tear for the Beloved (a.t.f.s.)", Ayatullah Baqir as-Sadr mentions under the chapter "IX) Recognition" in the section "The Major Occultation":

"The four special deputies acted as agents till the year 329 A.H., the year that marked the commencement of the Major Occultation (Ghaibat-e-Kubra). It was a period that had been prophesied by the past Prophets (a.s.) and the infallible Imams (a.s.). Also, it marked the beginning of a severe test for the Muslims, till the realisation of divine promise through his reappearance.In the year 329 A.H., the door of special deputyship was closed. Whoever claims this esteemed position after this year, then surely he is a liar and a cheat.

…. During the major occultation, numerous people had the fortune to attend to his presence and got the opportunity to visit him but none claimed special representation."

This fake imposter also claims to be "the 13th" and Imam Ja'fer Sadiq (a.s.) predicted this deviation to come from the Shias in the future who will abandon the original faith by checking the Book of Jafr, as quoted earlier.

He also claims to be Yamani although according to 3 clear evidences I provided Yamani's appearance is to happen from Yemen and this Ahmad Ismail Gatae has appeared from Basra.

Finally, what you must realize is logic. Yamani is to appear {from Yemen} before the 12th Imam does Zuhoor. And the successor or the first Mahdi, if at all any, is to be appointed after the 12th Imam establishes his reign and justice over the world, and carries out his rule. He cannot demand allegiance before the reappearance and while the 12th Imam(a) is still alive and has long time to rule. It is like saying before Prophet Muhammad even began the mission of Prophethood, Imam Ali[a] started propagating that he is the Prophet's successor and to start following him. Also, take a parable from the Hasanains for instance. When Imam Hassan[a] was Imam, Imam Hussein[a] stayed silent.

"17 - And from the same chain of narrators from Ali bin Mahziyar from Faddala fromAban bin Uthman from Ibne Abi Umair from Husain bin Abi Alaa from Abi Abdullah (a.s.)that he asked him:

"Can the earth remain without an Imam?" He replied: "No." I asked: "Canthere be two Imams at one time?" He said: "No, unless one of them is silent."…"Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni'ma Vol 1 by Shaykh as-Sadooq Chapter Twenty-two pg 231Translated by Sayyid Athar Husain S.H. Rizvi

So take a lesson for your commonsense. He can either be the Yamani and appear before the 12th Imam[a], or be the successor of the Qaim[a], and remain silent as long as the 12th Imam is alive. Did Imam Hussein[a] demand people to follow him or pledge allegiance to him while Imam Hassan[a] was still alive? Therefore claiming to be both proves Ahmed Ismail is neither of them, and hence a slanderous liar.

"19- Ghaibat Tusi: It is narrated from Ahmad bin Idris from Ali bin Muhammadfrom Fadhl bin Shazan from Ibne Abi Umair from Husain bin Abu Alaa from AbuBasir from Imam Ja'far Sadiq (a.s.) that he said:

"When His Eminence, Salman Farsi entered Kufa he glanced at it andmentioned all the troubles and events that were to occur in it till he alsomentioned about the Bani Umayyah rulers and the period after them. Afterthat he said:

'When all this is over, you must remain confined to your houses till thereappearance of the master of the affair, the pure one, son of the pure andpurifying. The one who has an occultation and who is the 'Tareed' and'Shareed'.

(This proves Tareed (exiled) and Shareed (fugitive) are none but titles of our Master, His Eminence Hujjat (a.s.). The kazzab Ahmad Ismail and his Kazzab Ansars are trying to take every title of the 12th Imam(A) they can find away from him and transfer it to their "13th".

THE PROMISED MAHDIAllamah Muhammad Baqir al-MajlisiEnglish Translation of Biharul Anwar, Volume 13 (OldEdition)/Volumes 51-52-53 (New Edition)Kitabul Ghaibah – Book of OccultationImam Mahdi (a.t.f.s.) – the twelfth Imam of the Twelver Shia Part IITranslator Sayyid Athar Husain S.H. Rizvi

@ Ahmad 313. I already told you that rijal is not everything, and I showed you the conclusions of 3 great scholars whose verdicts we should follow, and a sample of few hadiths showing our 12th Imam(A) is indeed the last of the Caliphs and Successors, and also a hadith from Imam Ja'far Sadiq (A) proving that in the future misguided people like you will call towards a 13th. And Imam Ja'far Sadiq (A) was crying for you. Indeed your Will has no credibility.

Yet, you are like a Robot repeating the same rijal list. Are all Ansars this retarded? Now we can see what types of rif rafs are joining Gatae's army.

"2 - Narrated to us my father and Muhammad bin Hasan and Muhammad bin Ali Jilaway- May Allah be pleased with them - they said: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Abil QasimMajilaway from Muhammad bin Ali Kufi Qurashi Muqri from Nasr bin Muzahim Minqarifrom Umar bin Saad from Fudhail bin Khadij from Kumayl bin Ziyad Nakhai.# And narratedto us Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ahmad bin Walid (r.a.) from Muhammad bin Hasan as-Saffarand Saad bin Abdullah and Abdullah bin Ja'far Himyari from Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Isaand Ibrahim bin Hashim, all of them from Abdur Rahman bin Abi Najran from Asim binHumaid from Abi Hamza Thumali from Abdur Rahman bin Jundab Fazari from Kumayl binZiyad Nakhai. #And narrated to us Abdullah bin Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab bin Nasr binAbdul Wahhab Qurashi: Informed me Abu Bakr Muhammad bin Dawood bin SulaimanNishapuri: Narrated to us Musa bin Ishaq Ansari, the Qadi of Rayy: Narrated to us AbuNuaym Zirar bin Surad Tamimi: Narrated to us Asim bin Humaid Hannat from Abi Hamzafrom Abdur Rahman bin Jundab Fazari from Kumayl bin Ziyad Nakhai. # And narrated to usAhmad bin Ziyad bin Ja'far Hamadani: Narrated to us Ali bin Ibrahim bin Hashim from hisfather from Abdur Rahman bin Abi Najran from Asim bin Humaid from Abi Hamza Thumalifrom Abdur Rahman Ibne Jundab Fazari from Kumayl bin Ziyad Nakhai. # And narrated to usShaykh Abu Saeed Muhammad bin Hasan bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Ahmad bin Ali bin SaltQummi (r.a.): Narrated to us Muhammad bin Abbas Harwi: Narrated to us Abu AbdullahMuhammad bin Ishaq bin Saeed Said: Narrated to us Abu Hatim Muhammad bin IdreesHanzali ar-Raazi: Narrated to us Ismail bin Musa Fazari from Asim bin Humaid from AbiHamza Thumali from Abdur Rahman bin Jundab from Kumayl bin Ziyad Nakhai – (in anothertradition Fudail bin Jadij has narrated from Kumayl) that he said:

"Once I saw Amirul Momineen (a.s.) in the mosque of Kufa, and when wecompleted our late evening prayer (i.e. Isha), he took me by his hands and cameout of the Masjid. He did not say a word till we arrived at the rear part of Kufa.As he entered the desert, he heaved a sigh and said:

"O Kumayl, no doubt these hearts (i.e. minds) are containers, and the best ofthem are those who retain most. Remember from me what I say; people are ofthree categories: the learned men (of piety), the students on the path of salvation,and (the third one) the riffraff of the society, following every crowing of thecrows, bending as the wind blows; never benefiting from the light of knowledge,

O Kumayl, knowledge is better than wealth; for knowledge guards youwhile you have to guard wealth; and wealth is diminished when spent, whileknowledge grows and increases when you put it to use….…But unfortunately, some unscrupulous men of understanding have tried tomisuse it, using religion as a weapon to earn the worldly gain, and seeking unduepower by divine authority over Allah's creatures, abusing His bounties which Hebestowed upon them. So the feeble-minded people accepted them as reliable; ortook them as compliant with (divine) wisdom, discarding the true guardians oftruth…."

Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni'ma Vol 1 by Shaykh as-Sadooq Chapter twenty six pg 296

Your Ansars according to Imam Ali(a) are like the crows and rif rafs of society, who are feeble minded and grab onto deceivers and abandoning the true guardians of Religion.

Imam al-Hadi ('a) said:

[i]"If there would be no 'ulama' during the period of occultation (ghaybah) of the Qa'im of Muhammad's Progeny ('a) who would guide and draw the people toward him, defend the religion through divine proofs, and save the weak Shi'ah from the guiles of Satan and his legions as well as from the mischief of the Nasibis (the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt ('a)), no one would be left clinging to the religion of God and everyone will become apostates (murtaddin). Yet, they will assume the responsibility of leading the hearts of the weak Shi'ah to the utmost decree and keep on it just as the captain of the ship controls the rudder and control of the ship. Therefore, they are the people of the highest station in the sight of God."

[Tafsir Imam al-'Askari, p. 344; Ihtijaj, vol. 2, p. 260; Muniyyah al-Murid, p. 35; Mahajjah al-Bayda', vol. 1, p. 32; Hilyah al-Abrar, vol. 2, p. 455; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 2, p. 6; Al-'Awalim, vol. 3, p. 295.]

You have abandoned all the Ulemas today who are warning you to stay away from this "13th", and so you have by prediction of Imam Hassan{a} gone towards the road of apostasy.

That which further proves your apostasy and that Bayyat to anyone other than the Prophet and Imams (a) is invalid, is a tradition mentioned in Biharul Anwar quoting from Mufaddal bin Umar from Imam Ja'far Sadiq (a) that he said:

O Mufaddal, every kind of Bayyat before the reappearance of His Eminence Qaim (a) is a Bayyat of infidelity, hypocrisy and deception; the Almighty Allah has cursed one who gives such Bayyat and one who takes it…

[ Biharul Anwar, Vol. 53, Pg. 8]

As for your Evil Scholars dramatics,

where does the hadiths say that "all" scholars would be evil? This is just an exaggeration. The hadith they use is just a general statement without specifications.

"1 - Narrated to us Husain bin Ahmad bin Idrees (r.a.): Narrated to us my father: Narratedto us Abu Saeed Sahl bin Ziyad Adami ar-Raazi: Narrated to us Muhammad bin AdamShaibani from his father Adam Ibne Abi Iyaas: Narrated to us Mubarak bin Fadala from Wahbbin Munabbih – rafa'u - from Ibne Abbas that he said: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.s.) said:

"When I went on ascension I was called: O Muhammad. I replied: Lord of majesty, here am I. The Almighty Allah revealed to me: O Muhammad, what are you apprehensive about in the highest heavens? I said: My God, I don't know. I was asked: Have you not appointed among men your vizier, brother and successor? I said: O Lord, whom should I appoint as my vizier? Please choose him for me. So the Almighty Allah revealed to me: O Muhammad, Ali is your successor and the inheritor of your knowledge after you….I have given this excellence to him and through his loins I will give you eleven guides all of who shall be from Batool. Behind the last of them will pray Isa bin Maryam and he would fill the earth with justice and equity as it would be fraught with injustice and oppression….The rightful jurisprudents will be few and the unscrupulous jurisprudents will be many. Poets will be there in large numbers…"

Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni'ma Vol 1 by Shaykh as-Sadooq pg 255Translated by Sayyid Athar Husain S.H. Rizvi

Notice that Allah reveals that not all scholars will be evil at the end of times, and like all times there will exist rightful jurists. TheAnsar sect makes you believe that all ulemas are evil in the end of times using a general hadith from the Imam[a]. We can compare this with the similar example where wahabbis argue with us on terms of intercession of Imams, saying there are no mediums and intercessors to Allah by using support of a general ayat ("O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers-- they are the unjust" .Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #254)) But they forget there also exist specific ayat clarifying the general ayat ("On that day shall no intercession avail except of him whom the Beneficent Allah allows and whose word He is pleased with".Taha, Chapter #20, Verse #109) "They shall not control intercession, save he who has made a covenant with the Beneficent Allah" .Maryam, Chapter #19, Verse #87)).

Hence, we could easily interpret these evil scholars who will be many to be as follows, quoted from the book An Overview of the Mahdi's ('atfs) Government by Najmuddin Tabasi :

"In this regard, the Messenger of God (S) said:

"The jurists (fuqaha) of those days will be the worst jurists under heaven. Sedition and chaos will start from them and will also return to them."[ Thawab al-A'mal, p. 301; Jami' al-Akhbar, p. 129; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 52, p. 190.]

Perhaps, it alludes to court-affiliated scholars who justify the crimes of tyrant kings and self-centered rulers, giving them an Islamic twist. It also includes those who are ready to compromise with every offender and criminal such as Wahhabi preachers on the payroll of kings who regard it as unlawful to struggle against America and Israel, and those who did not speak out against the crimes of Israel and justified the crimes of the Wahhabis in killing pilgrims to the House of God by citing Qur'anic verses and hadiths. [it refers to the Sa'udi massacre, in the 1987 Hajj, of hundreds of mostly Iranian pilgrims in Mecca at the order of America under the pretext that "The Iranians wanted to take out the Black Stone of the Ka'bah and bring it to Qum!" as parroted by the Wahhabi 'ulama' throughout the Muslim world.] Yes, it must be said that they are the worst fuqaha from whom seditions have started and to whom they will also return."

Translator and typesetter:Mansoor LimbaUnder Chapter 2: The Religious Condition of the People, under the section "The Jurists (fuqaha)"

92- Ghaibat Nomani: It is narrated from Ibne Uqdah from Hamid bin Ziyadfrom Ali bin Sabbah from Abu Ali Hasan bin Muhammad from Ja'far binMuhammad from Ibrahim bin Abdul Hamid from Ibne Tarif from Asbagh binNubatah that Amirul Momineen (a.s.) said:…. A man said to him: "What will we do when such a time comes?"Imam Ali said: "Escape! Escape! The justice of Allah will still spreadamong this Ummah as long as the scholars do not incline to the rulers and aslong as the pious still forbid the dissolute from committing sins."

THE PROMISED MAHDIAllamah Muhammad Baqir al-MajlisiEnglish Translation of Biharul Anwar, Volume 13 (OldEdition)/Volumes 51-52-53 (New Edition)Kitabul Ghaibah – Book of OccultationImam Mahdi (a.t.f.s.) – the twelfth Imam of the Twelver Shia Part IITranslator Sayyid Athar Husain S.H. RizviChapter Thirty: Signs of Reappearance Effect of the Uprising of Imam Zamana (a.s.) and its Signs

Therefore as for the pious Ulemas of ours, Tabarsi has clearly clarified in his book 'Ehtejaj' by narrating from Sadeq Aal-e-Muhammad (A.S.) a lengthy tradition a part of which is as follows:

'If there is anyone among the 'Fuqaha' (Jurists) who is in control over his own self, protects his religion, suppresses his evil desires and is obedient to the commands of his master, it is then obligatory upon the people to follow him and these qualities are present only in few of the Shia Jurists and not in all of them...."

Kashi narrates: A 'tawqee' (signed letter) was sent for Qasim-ibn-Ala with such contents: Whatever is narrated by the learned scholars upon whom we are having trust should never be doubted by our friends. This is because we have made them partners in our secret and we have entrusted our secrets to them....

Imam al-Hadi ('a) said: "If there would be no 'ulama' during the period of occultation (ghaybah) of the Qa'im of Muhammad's Progeny ('a) who would guide and draw the people toward him, defend the religion through divine proofs, and save the weak Shi'ah from the guiles of Satan and his legions as well as from the mischief of the Nasibis (the enemies of the Ahl al-Bayt ('a)), no one would be left clinging to the religion of God and everyone will become apostates (murtaddin). Yet, they will assume the responsibility of leading the hearts of the weak Shi'ah to the utmost decree and keep on it just as the captain of the ship controls the rudder and control of the ship. Therefore, they are the people of the highest station in the sight of God."

[Tafsir Imam al-'Askari, p. 344; Ihtijaj, vol. 2, p. 260; Muniyyah al-Murid, p. 35; Mahajjah al-Bayda', vol. 1, p. 32; Hilyah al-Abrar, vol. 2, p. 455; Bihar al-Anwar, vol. 2, p. 6; Al-'Awalim, vol. 3, p. 295.]

Shaikh Tusi in 'Ghaibat', Shaikh Saduq in 'Kamaluddin' and Tabarsi in 'Ehtejaj' have narrated from Ishaaq-ibn-Ammar that Mahdi (A.S.) has said: 'But as for the problems which will arise in the future, you should refer to the narrators of our traditions for their verdicts as they are my proofs to you, and I am Allah's proof to them....

"Imam Sadiq (a) said, "The Messenger of Allah (s) delivered a discourse among the people in Masjide-e-Khaif and said: O Allah! Please the slave who listens to our words, gives them place in his heart and conveys them to those who have not heard them…. A Muslim should not do Khayanat (defalcation) in three things: (1) He should perform deeds purely for Allah (2) He should be a well-wisher for the Imam (a) and the religious leaders. (3) He should not distance himself from their congregation, because their invitation is for all those who like it…." [usool Kafi, Vol. 1, Pg. 403]

You are Ansars are a gone case for you have abandoned the true guardians of Religion today and have taken a bumpy road towards Hell. Good luck with your 13th spirit.

*NOTE FOR INQUIRERS, VISIT THE 12TH IMAM(A)'S LETTER SECTION IN PART 4 B - and witness where these Ansars of Dajjal stand*

</p>This man is so dumb. Even though we showed him the 3 hadith saying he will appear from Yemen in its original form without brackets or anything, he is asking the same question. Perhaps his little floppy disk in the head got full and the information must be re-entered.

You talk a lot yet you know very little, each post you make is proving what a failure you are in your own research. First of all your bringing narrations of Imam Jafar(as) where he predicted deviation. How can you make your own silly interpretation, I could go and say that he was talking about the people that do taqleed. You are not a infallible Mahhfzb, you are a miguided individual.

Now you bring the hadith about two imams being on earth. You it is possible in both way once the 12th Imam(as) appears then he is the Imam of course, and after the 12th Imam(as) he takes leadership, what so hard to understand abou that. Does this contradict the hadith in anyway?

Your now trying to say that the 12th Imam (as) will not have any successors/caliphs? are you gone nuts? And now your saying Imam Jafar(as) was crying for this, where did you get this from? Did some classical ulema say this or are you talking your own nonsense? Im very sure its you. No one would say anything that stupid.

"And against the Sufyani from the people of the East,a successor of Al-Mahdi,and he shall defeat the Sufyani in Sham(syria)" Sharh Ahqaq AlHaq section 29 p.620

Prophet of Allah pbuhap said:"And then he mentioned a man and then he said, if you see him pledge allegiance to him for he is the Caliphate of the Mahdi"p.30 Besharat Al Islam"

And then in Heera a mosque shall be built for him,500 doors,the caliphate of the Qa'em(riser)shall pray in it,because the mosque of Kufa will be constricted" Bihar AlAnwar v.52 p.474

Tahtheeb AlAhkaam v.3 p.245

Imam Jaafer a.s says:(companion of the matter finds a place in Basra) Haft Al Shareef p.175

Al-Imam Al-Baqir "There is no banner better than that of the banner of Yamani, it is the banner of faith and dedication, because he calls to your possessor, so if the Yamani comes out, selling weapons to people or any Muslim becomes prohibited, and if the Yamani appears, stand up to him, because he's banner is the banner of faith, and its prohibited for any Muslim to turn away from him, and who ever turns away from him, then he's from the people of hell, because he calls to the truth and to the right path). Al-Ghaybah - Mohammad Ibn Ibrahim A' Noâmani p. 264.

Look for yourself, and now tell me that the Mahdi will not have a successor.

Again you are not able to give a valid reason for the will being wrong. Which scholars have ever said this will is wrong in anyway? Are you making up stuff now. You seem like your not doing this for the sake of Ahlul Bayt, but to rather satisfy your self. You have said the the will is authentic according to its rijal, do you know what that means, that it is the word of Ahlul Bayt(as). So that would mean that you are not accepting their words, rather you are following your self, or your imaginary ulema that you are talking about. Even IF the ulema have said something wrong about it, it does not take away the fact that this will is from Ahlul Bayt(as). <<<this is a whole seperate debate, first bring your proof for those scholars who say its not authentic.

You are twisting and turning hadiths just like Imam Sadiq(as) said that people would twist and turn them for their own benefits. You will get it man, come back to your senses. You have turned into a nutcase.

Now about the modern day ulema. You think when the Mahdi(as) appears all the ulema right now will be waiting for him, your wrong.

Prince of the believers a.s in Khutba mentions the ending

days"The jurists"fuqaha" will lean towards lying and the scholars

will lean towards misguidance" Ilzaam Al-Naaseb Ithbaat Al-Huja Al-Ga'eb v.2 p.195

From Mufathel Ibn Umar he said:I heard

Abu Abdullah a.s saying:"If the riser(Qa'em)

stands,he will start with the liars amongst the

Shias,and so he then kills them"

Ikhtyar Ma'rifat AlRijal AlToosi v.2 p.589,

AlKashi p.253

^^Now I can be like you and say that hadith is for you.

Imam Al-Saadiq a.s says:"Becareful of Taqleed(copying scholars)

for whoever copies someone in his religion has perished for Allah

says in the Quran"They took their Rabbis and monks as Lords

without Allah"By Allah they haven't prayed for them neither did

they fast for them, but they made halal what is haram and made

haram for what is halal, so they copied them in this manner,

and so they worshipped them without even realizing.

Sheikh Al-Kulayni Kafi v.1 p.53

Imam Al-Baaqer a.s "If the Qa'em emerges he shall aproach to Kufa

and so then a few thousands will emerge out of it claiming that

he has no son, with them are weapons, and they will say, return

from where you came we do not need your help with sons of Fatima,

and so he shall take to them the sword until he reaches the last

one of them, and then he shall enter Kufa and will kill in there

every misguided hypocrite, and will destroy their palaces,and

will kill the fighters until Allah swt is pleased" Irshad Al-Mufeed v.2 p.384

Imam Hassan Al-Askari a.s he said to Abi Hashem Al-Ja'afari:"O

Ibn Al-Jaafari O Aba Hashem, there will come a time to the

people, their scholars are the most evil creation of Allah on the

face of the earth, that is because they lean towards philosophy

and aesceticism but they misguide our Shias and the ones who have

our Wilaya, so if they reach a position they will not have enough

of bribery,and if they betray that is because they worshipped God

in fakery, by God they cut the routes for the true believers,and

they call forth to the contribution of infidelity".Safeenat Al-

Bihaar Wa Madinat Al-Hukm Wal-Athaar v.2 p.57 p.58 v.4

Prophet of Allah pbuh said:"O Ibn Mas'ood "Their scholars and

jurists,are betrayers and sinners, they are the most evil

creation of Allah and also their followers from the ones who come

to them and take from them and love them and sits with them and

asks from them,they are the most evil of the creation of Allah

where he shall enter them hellfire "Mute,Def and blind, and shall

not return"Makaram Al-Akhlaaq p.450-45

From the Prophet of Allah pbuhap he says about the Ending days

"The scholars of the ending days are the most evil scholars under

the shade of the sky out of them came choas and to them it will

return" Bihar Al-Shareef v.52 p.190

"When Imam Al-Mahdi emerges he will not have any enemies except

the scholars,if it wasn't for the sword, the scholars would have

issued fatwas to kill him" Bayan Al-A'ema a.s v.3 p.99

Yome Al-Khalas p.279 Besharat Al Islam p.297

"His enemies are the scholars of Taqleed, they will be under his

rulership in fear from his sword and his power,and for a want

from what he has"

Prince of the believer a.s "And he shall avenge from the Fatwa

issuers(scholars)in religion from what they don't know about, so

Woe unto them and who followed them,was religion missing so that

they can erect it?Or was it bent so that they can straighten it?

Or did the people ask for what opposes it and agreed to its

opposition?Or did it force them to do righteousness so they

sinned against it? Bayan Al-A'ema A.S V.3 P.298

Here you go for your modern day ulema. I hope you enjoy following them. I wonder what your response to this will be. Probably some more nonsense.

From looking at your post and videos, it shows which side you are on.

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Notice Ahmed313 doesn't believe in what he says enough to take my challenge. All he can do is cry and accuse me of being a Sunni (which for the last time, I never said I was Sunni. For some reason, Sunnis call me Shia, and few Shia call me Sunni...just the ones that don't like me really).

Still waiting on your turn kiddo.

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By the way, Ahmad313, go back to HSB. You are just embarrassing the Ansars themselves. Repeating things like an idiot won't help in a dialogue. I am done with you.

I find it funny that they will sit through a couple hundred episodes of Abdullah Hasem's films to base their faith off of, but won't watch 1 1/2 hour clip to disprove their views.

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ok settle down ladies because i am about to put the "laughter" into "slaughter".

LOOOOOOOOOL ghulam ahmed did the SAME THING LOL

exactly! 10 points to griffindor. mirza ghulaam ahmed (of toilet fame) used the exact same arguments. they were as follows:

- my name is ahmad. prophecies talk about ahmad therefore i am the ahmad of prophecy.

- i have ilm e ghayb but trefuse to prove it.

- i am a mahdi

- ive written a few books

- hand picked hadiths must only therefore be talking about me when they mention certain characteristics like piety.

- i am hunted by the authorities and my followers harrassed and driven out of their homes, because i am the truth and the authorities hate me for it.

sound familiar?

replace "ghulaam ahmad" with "ahmad gheeta" and they are identical. curse of Allah on both ahmads.

@ MDM and Love of Islam

How was the Prophet Muhammed (sawa) Prophesized by the prophets before him? Was it in a similar method or different? How will you know who the Yamani(as) is? Whats your method in figuring this out? Please answer my question and avoid going off topic.

the prophet (pbuh) was prophecised from adam down the line. all prophets testified his nabuwwat and the wilayat of ali (as). there were relics in the ark of the covenant, and the prophet and masumeen are the "high ones" referred to in the quran, in regards to the rebellion of iblees.

whats the similarity between this and ahmad gheeta (may he die on the toilet)

May Allah forgive us for our wrong doings, and give us patience.

ameen. and may your false imam die on the toilet.

Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) has come with his family tree proving his lineage.

you believe he is the 5th generation grandson of imam mahdi (atf), am i correct?

He descends from the 12th Imam(as). His family tree is verified by the other tribal members in Basra Iraq.

:huh: you are going to have to run that by me again im afraid.

how did tribal members in basra verify that the awaited imam fathered a child.......? they have complete ilm e ghayb too?

And that is the method on how to verify a family tree by asking the other tribal members about it, from that specific location.

how do they verify that imam mahdi (atf) was part of the tree? are you sure a few generations back a lady did not have a baby out of wedlock, and then when asked she panicked and said "er....imam mahdi is the father"....?

You just proved my point. Your asking for artifacts and what not then at the same time your saying it can be engineered. You are starting to not make any sense whatsoever. You are going to deny every single thing.

say what?

We pray for the Ulema who were righteous, who were the working scholars. For example Khomeini(ra) etc. The non working scholars are the ones who we do not support in any way.

you pray for a man who slaughtered tens of thousands of prisoners in secret without a fair trial, yet want to kill a man who has been instrumental in the reduction of sectarian violence in iraq?

Was not the Prophet Muhammed(sawa) mentioned in the scriptures, e.g. OT,NT. Yet people still denied him. Was Jesus(as) not mentioned in the scriptures, yet those same scholars who studied those scriptures denied him and tried to kill him? You are just like them in saying the will is nothing new it has been there for ages. There is a reason why our Prophet(sawa) wrote the will, there is a reason why Ahlul Bayt(as) have showed us the characteristics of individuals to come after them.

you are not getting my point.

ahmad gheeta is not the first to notice that the name "ahmad" is in the will and his name is ahmad therefore the will must be talking about him.

read my list again. there are at least two false messengers before him who believed that they were the "ahmad" mentioned in prophecy. they were sayyed too.

your whole argument is that his name is ahmad. that is pathetic.

The name Ahmad can be looked at as one of the reason. Just like how the Prophet(sawa) was prophesized in the other scriptures as Ahmad. Yet people like YOU denied him.

BS. the prophet came with proofs on his body (such as a birthmark), miracles (such as making trees walk), knowledge (such as the truth of hazrat Isa with the christians at najran), and a divine book (the quran). he also was open in front of the people and met with and spoke to anyone who wished to see and speak to him.

that would be enough proof for me.

ahmad gheeta comes with the following:

"hey guys! HEY GUYS! the will says ahmad and my name is ahmad!"

do you see the difference, or do you want me to go a little bit slower? you have not proven a single thing about your false imam. nothing about his ilm ghayb, nothing about his power (i have insulted him constantly with no harm to myself, may he get AIDS and leprosy)

Show me one single narration saying the Yamani will be from Yemen. In its original form.

are you unable to read? the brother MAFHHZ (may the blessings of sayyeda fatima (sa) be with him for his service to shiaism) has posted twice proofs that you completely ignored. why should i post anything any different?

Since I have came to this website you have been talking out of your mouth not using your head. You have not pointed anyone to one single narration for any of your claims. Provide us with narrations for what you say.

thank you for admitting i talk out of my mouth. you and your friends talk out your rear ends.

you are right though. lets start with the hadith i posted about the 12 false mahdis who are sayyed :)

What are you talking about the actual will you acting like you know the writing of the Imams(as). Do you know there way of writing, if someone provides you with it will you believe? how will you know its them writing this? is this your method in know who the Mahdi is?

you have repeatedly said "ahmad al hassan has COME FORTH with the will!", "he is the FIRST to come with the will as proof!" "THE WILL, THE WILL, THE WILL!!!!!!!"

i must admit, i assumed that the way you were working yourselves into a frenzy over the will, that it must be *the* will, as in the original document, which is in the posession of the awaited imam (atf). of course it would be a huge proof if he posessed it. but he doesnt.

i could never imagine it was something as mundane as he read a book, and decided it referred to him, because it mentions "ahmad" and his name is ahmad.

Your saying the will of our Prophet(sawa) is not special? are you out of your mind?

yep, thats exactly what i am saying. the will of the prophet (pbuh) is no evidence at all of his station. how can it be? the only link between it and him is the name "ahmad". is he the only "ahmad" in history since the time that the will was written, that the "ahmad" in the will must only refer to him?

It just shows how twisted you are. Man i feel bad for you, May Allah help you. It is revelation, whatever Ahlul Bayt say is with the will of Allah swt. Im surprized that you even believe in the 12 Imams with your twisted ideology, were you born into shia islam? its just crazy.

ahmad313 i understanding of islam far outweighs yours. and JFYI i come from a line of shias which goes back to the times of the imams. one of my ancestors fought at kerbala. do not even bother insulting my lineage or parents. what is YOUR lineage just out of interest?

Laughing does not help your case at all. It is not proof of any sort. Please tell me did ghulam bring the will of the prophetصلى الله عليه وآله?

no...and neither did ahmad gheeta!!!!!

"Twelve Mahdis are to be from us. First of them is Amir al-Mo'menin Ali Ibn Abi Talib , and the last is the Imam who rises by justice. Through him, God will revive the earth after its death , and let the real belief overcome other beliefs , in spite of the polytheists' dislike. He has a long occultation ,during which some will abandon their faith , and some will firmly stay in their belief. Then, they will be annoyed and asked : " When will this promise be fulfilled, if you are telling the truth ? " Truly , whoever withstands annoyance and denial of others during the occultation of Mahdi is like the one who fights by sword alongside the Prophet (pbuh ).

Imam Hussain (a.s) (Bihar al- Anwar, Vol. 51, p. 133)

jesus wept, do they even read the things they cut and paste bro?

the 12 mahdis - peace and blessings upon them all

IMAM ALI - first mahdi

IMAM HASSAN - second mahdi

IMAM HUSSAIN - third mahdi

IMAM ZAIN UL ABIDEEN - fourth mahdi

IMAM BAQIR - fifth mahdi

IMAM JAFAR SADIQ - sixth mahdi

IMAM MUSA KAZIM - seventh mahdi

IMAM ALI RAZA - eighth mahdi

IMAM TAQI - ninth mahdi

IMAM NAQI - tenth mahdi

IMAM HASSAN AL ASKIRI - eleventh mahdi

THE AWAITED ONE (atf) - twelvth mahdi.

12 mahdis rose after the prophet. the final one is the one we await. just like the prophecy stated. of course they were all "ahmad". what do you think "ahmad" means? :huh:

In the will of the Prophet Muhammed(sawa) it says that the first of the 12 Mahdis will be Ahmad. Now you tell me, is Imam Ali (as) Ahmad?

of course he is. the hadith SAYS that he is the first mahdi!!!!!

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1) The Will of the Prophet (pbuh)

the only link between this and ahmad is the name "ahmad". that is no proof at all.

2) The Weapon of the Prophet (pbuh)

which is....? and how do you know ahmad gheeta owns it?

3) Peace and Dignity

yeah, cos he IS the only person in the world with THAT characteristic

4) Knowledge

if he has all knowledge, why did he need to attend university for engineering?

5) Dreams of the Infallibles (as)

unprovable. that is no proof.

6) Logic

my god! HE HAS LOGIC! ALLAHU AKBAR!!!!!

7) Miracles

such as?

8) Non-working scholars of the end times, as in prophecy, reject him

"non working scholars" also rejected ghulaam ahmad. does that make him right?

9) Does not make Halal/Haram or Haram/Halal

following a false mahdi is haram, he made it waajib.

10) Sincerity (according to MAFHHZB)

a sincere man does not allow others to be led astray.

May Allah open the eyes. What has Ahmad Al Hassan a.s gained after 11 years if he wasn't the Yamani?

wait...wait.....what has he gained again? he cant even "gain" a photocard ID apparantely.

Why would he still pursue guiding? It is time now to gently see the truth Insha'Allah and it is bitter and hard to swallow. Congratulations on the Aazmaaish. The Prophet (pbuh ahf) has told us of this. Who are we to deny him in his last moments?

May Allah guide the sincere.

Fi Aman Illah

his only "proof" is that the will mentions ahmad. and his name is ahmad. that is a stupid argument.

Was the Prophet sawa mentioned in the bible? If he was tell me wasnt that his proof against the Christians? Guess what it was already there before him. You havent answered my question that I had for you and MDM.

MDM must answer himself, for the nonsense he has talked. Everything he said doesnt make sense.

may Allah guide the shia-madiyya

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it is still a mystery to me how we are expected to say "OOOOHH WOOOW IT"S REALLLY HIMMM :D " without any evidence. Ahmed 313 appears to be a man of intelligence and very high akhlaq masha Allah (among the best i've see on ShiaChat ) .. i really don't understand how they decided to come out with it now :/

y not wait until there is actual evidence before screaming out to the world "it's him!!! "

even if any one of us has a vision about it .. or a suspicion that somebody might be yamani, khurasani, etc .. or even a hope .. that's 100% ok i believe.

but to come and threaten us and conspire to convert us .. and looking down at us, as though we are following idiotic scholars .. that's an insult!! not only insult to us .. but insult to the entire ummah, and the intelligent sunnah of our prophets and imams ..

even sayidna Musa (as) asked Allah swt to reveal himself .. so that his faith can be strengthened ..

when the prophet came down with clear evidence, (and he is mentioned in the injeel as well .. and the taura .. see songs of solomon .. by NAME) .. and he channeled a book straight from Allah ..

the first person other than sayida khadiga (as) to convert was a monk (as) who knew exactly from his books that everything fit .. not just a dream or random stories that have no reference to an actual person.

i urge people like Ahmed313 to take their time and contemplate what they are propagating .. how can they expect us to believe them without evidence ?? he's not yemeni, there is no evidence of him carrying a sword for 8 months (for us anyway) ..

and the thing that disgusts me the most is that they are discussing inheritance already!!! what is the point of this anyway ..?? y not focus 1st things 1st .. step-by-step .. what added value do we get from discussing inheritance?? what difference does that make to anybody now .. isn't our priority now to save whatever is left of Islam

1. Let Allah get rid of Sufyani

2. Let Allah get rid of anti-christ

nawuthu biLah

where is the base of the argument??? it's nice to read and study all kinds of sahih or not sahih ahadeeth .. it's good for our intellect and knowledge .. but where is the link to the person they claim is the yamani.

i asked these questions many times before, and i wish that the people who call themselves ansar (note that the real ansar are great people who did not abandon the prophet in war) .. i wish that they either stop propagating their claims OR bring clear-cut .. arguments .. no need to copy-paste a bunch of ahadeeth!! .. out of context .. without an actual person.

how can a real yamani allow you to go out an put yourself in danger like that. to make your claims without backing .. without any foothold ?>??

truth stands out from falsehood .. come on guys .. make your stand!! blow us away with your clear evidence if you can !!

short .. sweet and snappy evidence .. in baby language .. and avoid copy pasting a bunch of ahadeeth.

salam

Edited by Philip
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This is definitely comparable. The reason for that is that the Prophet was mentioned in a book. And in this situation we have a person Ahmad whose mentioned in a book as well. So why would that not be comparable?

ahmad is not u are misunderstanding the hadith, what i believe prophet muhammed is mention by his name or something? not too sure about it.

bible= holy book or use to be now corrputed

hadiths= just narration books not 100% authentic

now how can they be compared?

hadiths talk about events or answer questions

while bible talk about everything in general

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ahmad is not u are misunderstanding the hadith, what i believe prophet muhammed is mention by his name or something? not too sure about it.

bible= holy book or use to be now corrputed

hadiths= just narration books not 100% authentic

now how can they be compared?

By hadiths being sayings of the Holy Prophet and Imams a.s., and scriptures also containing words of Prophets, in both cases you are reading the statements of people who were Divinely appointed. Prophet Muhammed was prophesised, but he didn’t need to come with a written parchment from the previous Prophets to prove this. The coming was recorded in the books, that was the proof against the Jews and Christians. It is the same situation here.

Edited by GreenLantern
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