Who Is Ahmad Al Hassan?

[Ahmad 313]

"Allah swt said to Muhammad son of Abdullah pbuhap:"And Ali Al-Hadi who calls for my path,and the defender of my sanctities,and then the riser in my order,AlHassan the humble one,from him comes out the one with two names behind Muhammad,emerging in the end times and on his head a white turban"Taweel AlAyat Lesharaf AlHusseiny v.1 p.205

Whose the one with two names behind Mohammad????

Imam hussein (as) death bought back the islam which was getting destroyed by umyyads.

Habeel was killed by his brother on his own free will and what did habeel achieve heaven simple <<<<<<<<

"He Released a Sermon of Muharram this year with his voice that makes him alive for more than 11 years, and he claims to be the one in the Prophet's will, he used the Prophet's promise. That makes him on the right path."

the same will proved wrong by brother mafhhzb, did u noe that ghulam ahmed lived until he was 73! Also is there a document which shows his age? Other wise i can say i lived for 100s of years!

"

all i am saying is this bring some contribution he has made to the world or HIS intelligence ( has he answered any question (that scientist themselves could not) on math, science and etc) <<<http://almahdyoon.or...l2a3dad-1-2.pdf review this book and I challenge you to find any scholar that can be able to decipher such cryptic numerology and can own an author of a book that challenged him to reveal his name and position in Ahlulbayt. If you are sincere read this book and read the hundreds of questions that most scholars and even all scholars of this day are unable to answer."

do i see science and math anywhere? Do i see scientists accepting this? no then good luck next time buddy

"Imam Al Mahdi pbuh is in occultation for a thousand years, what are you going to say about that" Because Allah (swT) will reveal him in the right time. Only Allah knows why imam mahdi (atj) has not come out yet. I am pretty sure its not because they are people out there to kill hmi. When god is with you no one can kill u. Really go read the quran first.

There are hadiths YAMANI WILL FIGHT!! not hide like a coward behind his house or where he lives. The hadith u keep posting he will carry his sword on his shoulder for 8 months! What is the most logical meaning of this? That he will fight for 8 month.

[Love-Of-Islam]

^not a clear hadith post the scan of it

Edited October 2, 2011 by Love-Of-Islam

[Ahmad 313]

We took the covenant of the Children of Israel and sent them messengers, every time, there came to them a messenger with what they themselves desired not - some (of these) they called impostors,and some they (go so far as to) slay. Surat Al Mai'da verse 70

On 10/2/2011 at 3:47 PM, WhySoSerious? said:

Doesn't prove that Ahmad al Hassan knows what Alif Lam Meem means. I will wait for brother Maula Dha Mallang to post his proof.

Let him post I am willing to see it brother

I want you to clarify the question as best you can also.

AlHassan ibn Ali a.s:

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Bihar Al Anwar Al-Majlesy v.44 p.138-139

Imam Ali a.s said:

"By Allah the Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Jawaaher Al Taareekh AlSheikh Ali Al Koraani v.3 p.217 also p.172-173

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

AlSirat Al Mustaqeem Ali Yunes Al Ameli v.2 p.128

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Prince of the believers a.s said:"For this nation is 12 guiding Imams from the offspring of the Prophet...and so these are 12 from his offspring".AlKafi v.1 p.535

Imam Ali a.s on the pulpit of Kufa "There has to be a mill that crushes and when its axle begins to start it,Allah will send a harsh servant(slave of His) whose descent is (dubious,or unknown )."

Gaibat Al Numani p.265

On 10/2/2011 at 3:44 PM, MAFHHZB said:

So? Those hadiths are correct? What is your question? The 12 Imams(a) indeed are from the lineage of Prophet SA, Imam Ali(a) being the father of all these Imamsعليه السلام. Total - 12 Imams(a) in number. Besides your famous hadith says Imam Jaffer Sadiq (A) said to Abu Basir - They are Mahdis, not Imams. So all these hadiths you post do not refer to your ideology.

1.If those hadeeths are correct how can 12 sons come from Ali a.s????

2.Who is that man whose descent is dubious"Khamel Al Asl" is it Imam Al Mahdi??

Edited July 1, 2018 by Hameedeh
Strike through fonts removed.

[SD2]

My question is One of you claims Imam Mahdi a.j has the knowledge of Alif Lam Meem and the Yamani doesn't. One of you claims Both have the knowledge of Alif Lam Meem. Whoever is truthful bring solid proof. Hope that clarifies the question :)

[Ahmad 313]

If we told you that the Yamani a.s has the meaning of Alif Lam Meem,and its in his books that is called Mutashabehaat? And its from the knowledge of Imam Al Mahdi a.j his father, do we have to argue. I ask you this how can you prove to me that this meaning is not from Imam Al Mahdi pbuh. Isn't it proof that he has knowledge and the will as proof so we can know he is right? Isn't it proof that he is the claimant in the end times, that you have to ask him about the greatest of things...whats greater than Quran and Ahlulbayt??

Muhammad ibn Yaqood he said:Muhammad ibn Yahya Ahmad ibn Idrees AlHassan ibn Ali AlKufi from Ali ibn Hassan from Abdulrahman ibn Katheer from AlMufathel Ibn Umar I heard Abu Abdullah a.s saying "The Master of Undertaking has two occultations,one of them he will return to his family and the other it will say:He perished!To which valley did he take!I said:What shall we do if this happened?He said:If a claimant comes to you ask him about the greatest of things,where only him will answer you back.

Gaibat Al Numani p.172

The Imam a.s said greatest of things, and yes there is nothing better than Quran and Ahlulbayt, if anyone believes that there is better than I challenge him to show me. Read the books of Ahmad a.s all of them , hundreds and hundreds of questions about Quran along with Fiqh in all angles. Not one time in his fiqh/jurisprudence he says Ahwat Wojooban or says I don't know you might need to go to someone etc....nearly a thousand difficult questions to scholars about quran and fiqh altogether

[SD2]

Are there any PDF versions of these books that I could read?

[Ahmad 313]

Yes.

http://almahdyoon.org/maktaba/tahmil/kotobsaed.html

They are arabic...

[GreenLantern]

On 10/2/2011 at 3:44 PM, MAFHHZB said:

So? Those hadiths are correct? What is your question? The 12 Imams(a) indeed are from the lineage of Prophet , Imam Ali(a) being the father of all these ImamsÚáíå ÇáÓáÇã. Total - 12 Imams(a) in number. Besides your famous hadith says Imam Jaffer Sadiq (A) said to Abu Basir - They are Mahdis, not Imams. So all these hadiths you post do not refer to your ideology.

The hadiths all refer to 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima (i.e. not including Imam Ali a.s.).

First son:Imam Hassan

Second son:Imam Hussein

Third son:Imam Ali ibn Hussein

Forth son:Imam Muhammad ibn Ali

Fifth son:Imam Jaafer ibn Muhammad

Sixth son:Imam Musa ibn Jaafer

Seventh son:Imam Ali ibn Musa

Eighth son:Imam Muhammad ibn Ali

Ninth son:Imam Ali ibn Muhammad

Tenth son:Imam Hassan ibn Ali

Eleventh son:Imam Muhammad ibn Hassan

12th son: Ahmad a.s.

The Mahdis come after the Imams.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Hameedeh
Strike through fonts removed.

[SD2]

I don't know arabic, if there are any books in PDF format which are in English please provide me them, I will read them without being biased. May Allah s.w.t guide me to the path that is the truth whatever that path may be.

(By the way I'm still not convinced at all that Ahmad al Hassan is the yamani, I still believe him to be an imposter and a fake, Allahu Alam)

[Ahmad 313]

I don't know arabic, if there are any books in PDF format which are in English please provide me them, I will read them without being biased. May Allah s.w.t guide me to the path that is the truth whatever that path may be.

(By the way I'm still not convinced at all that Ahmad al Hassan is the yamani, I still believe him to be an imposter and a fake, Allahu Alam)

You can go look into this site www.the-savior.com it has some translated books, as for Mutashabehaat,Chara'2i3 Al Islam,Jawab Al Muneer it is not yet fully translated, the ansars are working on translating the Mutashabehaat inshAllah but there are many questions translated and here is some of them for this time.

http://hashemstudios-board.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=5439

</p>1. Provide the Arabic version so someone knowing arabic here can analyze the translation.

2. Provide the grading of the sanad of this hadith.

3. Assuming for arguments sake, this hadith is correct and accurately translated, how does this refer to Ahmad Ismail who has not appeared from Yemen and is therefore not the subject?

Every heard of the saying - "Penny wise, Pound foolish" ?

You are focusing on branches when the foundation of the roots themselves are weak. You can keep on showing me more branches in the future, but I will direct you back to the roots: "Yamani from Yemen". This is called a clear specific evidence. Your hadiths are all vague and you connect it to whatever you feel like.

The Quran, chapter 3 (Aale Imran), verse 7:

"He it is Who has revealed the Book to you; some of its verses are decisive, they are the basis of the Book, and others are allegorical; then as for those in whose hearts there is perversity they follow the part of it which is allegorical, seeking to mislead and seeking to give it (their own) interpretation.

Answer my question and please don't run away...If you believe the Yamani is from Yemen, then how can Imam Al Mahdi pbuh can be also be a Yamani...and a Caliphate comes from him!!!!!

The prince of the army of Gathab(anger) he is not from that such(of people) or this,but they will hear a call not from a human nor from the jin, "Pay homage to this certain person, he is a caliphate of a Yamani" Malaahem Wal Fitan Ibn Tawoos p.80

A caliphate is Infallible and has to be mentioned by text.

Imam Al Mahdy is not from Yemen right???????????????Then who is this caliphate in the end days???????

[GreenLantern]

There is no contradiction, you have yourself admitted the hadiths are correct.

[Ahmad 313]

How can you give these types of stupid statements which contradict your beliefs.

"56 - Narrated to us Ali bin Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Imran al-Daqqaq: Narrated to usMuhammad bin Abi Abdullah Kufi: Narrated to us Musa bin Imran Nakahi from his uncleHusain bin Yazid Naufali from Ali bin Abi Hamza from Abi Baseer that he said: I said to as-Sadiq Ja'far bin Muhammad (a.s.): O son of Allah's Messenger, I have heard from your fatherthat he said:

"There will twelve Mahdis after the Qaim?" Imam (a.s.) said: "He has said twelve Mahdis not twelve Imams. They shall be our Shias who would call thepeople towards our Wilayat (guardianship) and Marefat (recognition) of our rights."Kamaaluddin wa Tamaamun Ni'ma Vol 2 Chapter: Thirty-three "Statements of as-Sadiq (a.s.) regarding the occurrence of Ghaibat"Author: Shaykh as-SadooqTranslated by Sayyid Athar Husain S.H. Rizvi

Probably you have mistranslated the original arabic into english to suite your Agenda -just like Zolfigar did with a very similar hadith. Everyone who wants to know what games Zolfigar played with the translation of a related hadith called "Imam Ali(a) thinking of a child from the 11th" refer to 45min in the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McOmrepRHSg

The 12 Mahdis are not at the status of 12 Imams but they are still Imams meaning they are the rulers of the nation of justice after Imam Al Mahdi pbuh. Not Imams referred to as in the Prophet's will and Imam Jaafer a.s. The reason Imam Jaafer a.s emphasized was to make him differentiate and tell him that the 12 Mahdis after the 12 Imams aren't better or at the level of the first 12 Imams. But they are in reality Imams as in leaders as this was mentioned from Ahlulbayt pbu them.

.“ And peace and blessings on your guardian(Imam Al Mahdi),and those who bear your promise and the Imams from his sons”Bihar AlAnwar v.99 p.114 v.52 p.20

O Allah be for your guardian,the one who rises with your matter Muhammad ibn Hassan, to his fathers peace and blessings…and make him with his offspring Imams that inherit” Bihar Al Anwar v.49 p.349

http://www.rafed.net/research/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1703:2010-08-15-14-42-01&catid=222:2009-07-15-04-10-07&Itemid=1332

Sistani also approves such narration

[GreenLantern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McOmrepRHSg

Why are you advertising your videos again can you not post you thoughts on the page in a clear succinct manner? What little I have seen of them discouraged me from watching further, your videos are misguiding you refer to beliefs that Ahmad al Hassan does not advocate, may Allah swt guide you.

[insha]

Ahmed Ismail Gata carries a sword, eh? Give us both swords, and we shall see whose "age is cut off". I promise you it won't be a failed engineering student-turned-cult leader.

[Ahmad 313]

Ahmed Ismail Gata carries a sword, eh? Give us both swords, and we shall see whose "age is cut off". I promise you it won't be a failed engineering student-turned-cult leader.

Insha: Im sorry to say but you follow Abu Bakr and Omar and Uthman, and you don't believe that Ali deserves to be first Caliph, this conversation is for Shias and not for a follower of Abu Bakr and Omar who plotted in murdering the daughter's Prophet Fatima Al Zahra a.s

The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise." Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p655

The Messenger of Allah said: "O Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shia will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing,

and there will come to Him your enemies angry and stiff-necked (i.e., their head forced up).

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p236(saheeh hadeeth)

So please stay out of it because you don't believe in Muhammad ibn Hassan a.j in the first place, your disagreeing in this situation just to fulfill the duty that you want to oppose Hashemstudios.

Insha your not Shia and you believe in the supremacy of people and that Imam Ali a.s doesn't deserve to be a Caliphate. You are a follower of Ahlulsunna wal Jama' that was a term coined by Muawya ibn Sufyan.

Edited October 2, 2011 by Ahmad 313

[Ahmad 313]

The prince of the army of Gathab(anger) he is not from that such(of people) or this,but they will hear a call not from a human nor from the jin, "Pay homage to this certain person, he is a caliphate of a Yamani" Malaahem Wal Fitan Ibn Tawoos p.80

A caliphate is Infallible and has to be mentioned by text.

Imam Al Mahdy is not from Yemen right???????????????Then who is this caliphate in the end days???????

I will not jump into another subject unless you answer this question.

Salam

[insha]

Insha: Im sorry to say but you follow Abu Bakr and Omar and Uthman, and you don't believe that Ali deserves to be first Caliph, this conversation is for Shias and not for a follower of Abu Bakr and Omar who plotted in murdering the daughter's Prophet Fatima Al Zahra a.s

The Messenger of Allah said to Ali: "Glad tiding O Ali! Verily you and your companions and your Shia (followers) will be in Paradise." Fadha'il al-Sahaba, by Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v2, p655

The Messenger of Allah said: "O Ali! (On the day of Judgment) you and your Shia will come toward Allah well-pleased and well-pleasing,

and there will come to Him your enemies angry and stiff-necked (i.e., their head forced up).

al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar al-Haythami, Ch. 11, section 1, p236(saheeh hadeeth)

So please stay out of it because you don't believe in Muhammad ibn Hassan a.j in the first place, your disagreeing in this situation just to fulfill the duty that you want to oppose Hashemstudios.

Insha your not Shia and you believe in the supremacy of people and that Imam Ali a.s doesn't deserve to be a Caliphate. You are a follower of Ahlulsunna wal Jama' that was a term coined by Muawya ibn Sufyan.

You are such an ignorant fool with your utterances.

What if I were to tell you that you believed in the supremacy of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? You would find it ridiculous, just as I find your assumptions about my faith ridiculous. You only show the ignorance that your "Imam" Ahmed Ismail seems to have increased.

I call the curse of Allah upon me, my wife, my mother and father, and all of my family if I am wrong in the matter of Ahmed Ismail Gata, aka Ahmed Hassan Al Yamani, being what you have claimed.

Your turn.

[Abu_zar]

In that case you could say regarding the Imam's a.s. that they created disunity by making a stand against the prevailing view. They a.s. were the ones who taught the shia to stand for the truth, at all costs, and those who know best on this matter have warned us about the scholars at the time of the Mahdi a.s.. Do you expect us to unite behind those we have been advised against?

It is sad that you have totally disregarded what Hazrat Ali a.s. went through to avoid creating disunity.

• When Abu Sufyan asked him to rise for his right and promised to fill the streets of Medina with soldiers to fight for Hazrat Ali a.s., what was his reply?
  
• When Hazrat Ali compiled the Quran that had ayats arranged chronologically, and others arranged Quran in present form, why did he not publish it in his khilafat? Simply because he did not want muslims to be divided and have two Qurans.
  

Please do not disregard our twelve imams efforts to unite the umma. They never attacked all the scholars and scholars never attacked them like it is happening with Mr. Ahmad al Hassan.

Abu_zar

AlHassan ibn Ali a.s:

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Bihar Al Anwar Al-Majlesy v.44 p.138-139

Imam Ali a.s said:

"By Allah the Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Jawaaher Al Taareekh AlSheikh Ali Al Koraani v.3 p.217 also p.172-173

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

AlSirat Al Mustaqeem Ali Yunes Al Ameli v.2 p.128

"Prophet of Allah pbuhap promised us that this matter shall be ruled by 12 Imams from the sons of Ali and Fatima."

Prince of the believers a.s said:"For this nation is 12 guiding Imams from the offspring of the Prophet...and so these are 12 from his offspring".AlKafi v.1 p.535

If you start counting how many hadeeth say that there will be 12 imams in total, or there will be 11 sons of Ali a.s and Fatima a.s as imam, you will lose count. For each hadeeth you quote, there will be 100s of hadeeth mentioning only 12 imams in total. I looked at Kamaluddin only and gave up as the number is too large.

The ones you quote, must be an occasion where someone either messed up the number or there was an error inquotation as we know has occurred time and again with ahadeeths.

Do you not ask yourself what the huge number of ahadeeths citing 12 imams in total telling you?

Do you not ask yourself why Imam Muhammad Baquar a.s and imam Jafar Sadiq a.s meant when they said that 12 Mehdis will not be imams?

Please stop debating for the sake of debating and stop looking at books just to find something to go with your side of argument. Start looking for truth, consistency and overall policies. Though looking at the sort of argument you are giving, I do not think you will do that.

Abu_zar

[Maula Dha Mallang]

wow. this thread has just totally derailed in the few days i wasnt posting.

guys, lets not allow ourselves to become sidetracked or manipulated by the ansar of ahmad gheeta during their relentless river of rubbish.

lets get back on topic.

whysoserious - your question has merit. if i was to provide a hadith, which states that imam mahdi (ibn hassan al askiri (as)) will reveal the meaning of aleph laam meem, will that satisfy you?

ahmad313's argument is nothing but verbal diarrhoea. we have hadith that say the mahdi (hujja ibn hassan (atf)) will reveal the meaning of aleph laam meem. this will be proof of his zahoor.

ahmad then responds with some randomass hadith which does not mention aleph laam meem.

if someone other than the awaited imam (son of the 11th imam (as)) was to reveal aleph laam meem...do you not think [sarcasm]that might be a slightly important detail[/sarcasm], which probably would be mentioned in a hadith?

the ansar are trying to confuse us, and the readers, by mixing up the terms "imam" and "mahdi" and using them interchangably with their jackass of a leader. we need to be clear.

the son of the 11th Imam will return. by "imam" we are not talking about "12 mini-mahdis".

he will reveal aleph laam meem as proof of his zahoor.

by its very nature, this revelation must not come from anyone other than him, in person, at his return and rise.

if it was to come from anyone else, it would completely undermine the proof of his zahoor. how would we then identify him as the rightful imam, if someone else who was not him, revealed aleph laam meem?

all these hadiths that ahmad313 is pulling out of his ass are nothing but pure qiyas.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

two interesting signs taken from kitab al irshad, pages 541 - 548, chapter: the twevlth imam (as)

the Arabs will throw off the reins and take possession of their land, throwing out the foreign authority; the people of Egypt will kill their ruler and destroy Syria; and three standards will dispute over it (Syria)

all but the destruction of syria (which is happening currently) and the struggle for its control (wahabbis VS Bani Assad VS a third hand) have occured, almost exactly as described 1000 years ago.

read almost the next hadith, only a few signs separate the above and below hadiths:

sixty liars will come forward, all of them claiming prophethood, and twelve will come forward from the family of Abu Talib, all of them claiming the Imamate;

so, uh...havent you guys been saying throughout this thread that he is your "imam", and he is a sayed.....?

epic.

ownage.

full list of signs from kitab al irshad here:

http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/12thimam.html

Edited October 3, 2011 by Maula Dha Mallang

[Maula Dha Mallang]

^^ brother as a bit of a side issue (not related to the main theme of the thread), is there any reliable hadith which state that the yamani will be a sayed? i dont mean taking hadith A and hadith B to come up with your own qiyas like the ansar of ahmad gheeta do, i mean a hadith that specifically states "the yamani will revolt, and he will be a sayed"

[GreenLantern]

Please do not disregard our twelve imams efforts to unite the umma. They never attacked all the scholars and scholars never attacked them like it is happening with Mr. Ahmad al Hassan.

Then why in the hadiths would the Imams, even Rasulallah warn us against the scholars? All we have said is Rasulallah and Imams a.s. are right, and you accuse us of disunity. Do you not think Imams would have thought of the consequences when they uttered those words? Clearly there must have been a reason for them to give that advice. Did they have knowledge that Imam Mahdi a.s. would be opposed by many of the scholars, as was narrated in numerous hadith?

Imam Ahmad Al Hassan: "Be fair to yourselves even if its once, and ask this question, have you asked the Messenger of Allah (A.S) and the Imams about the end of time scholars, before you ask the end of time scholars about the guardian of Imam Al-Mahdy? Have you asked the Quran about the scholars if a prophet or guardian has been sent, what will be their constant attitude? Have you asked the Quran, who kindled the fire for Abraham and who wanted to kill Jesus and who fought Noah, Hood, Saleh, Shua’ib, Moses, Younis and all the prophets and guardians?"

If you start counting how many hadeeth say that there will be 12 imams in total, or there will be 11 sons of Ali a.s and Fatima a.s as imam, you will lose count. For each hadeeth you quote, there will be 100s of hadeeth mentioning only 12 imams in total. I looked at Kamaluddin only and gave up as the number is too large.

The ones you quote, must be an occasion where someone either messed up the number or there was an error inquotation as we know has occurred time and again with ahadeeths.

Yes there are 12 Imams mentioned in innumerable hadith, but when the Imams a.s. mention the reappearance, or the 1st Mahdi a.s. is discussed as you saw in the hadiths he is also reffered to as an Imam a.s. If there was only one hadith I might agree, but having it included in different shia books can't be overlooked and shows it isn't a mistake.

Edited October 3, 2011 by GreenLantern

[SD2]

I would like one of you followers of Ahmad Hassan to clarify this for me, are you trying to say that it goes like this

Imam Ali a.s

Imam Hassan a.s

Imam Hussein a.s

Imam Ali ibn al Hussain a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ja'far ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Musa ibn Ja'far a.s

Imam Ali ibn Musa a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ali ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Hassan ibn Ali a.s

The Yamani who you say is "Imam Ahmad al Hassan"

Then you say for the 12 Mahdis

Imam Mahdi a.j

11 more Mahdis (whoever they are)

Is this what you are trying to say??!?!?!

[GreenLantern]

I would like one of you followers of Ahmad Hassan to clarify this for me, are you trying to say that it goes like this

Imam Ali a.s

Imam Hassan a.s

Imam Hussein a.s

Imam Ali ibn al Hussain a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ja'far ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Musa ibn Ja'far a.s

Imam Ali ibn Musa a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ali ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Hassan ibn Ali a.s

The Yamani who you say is "Imam Ahmad al Hassan"

Then you say for the 12 Mahdis

Imam Mahdi a.j

11 more Mahdis (whoever they are)

Is this what you are trying to say??!?!?!

No, no one has said that.

Imam Mahdi a.s. is an Imam. 12 Imams, 12 Mahdis however in some hadith Ahmad al Hassan (the first of the 12 Mahdis) is reffered to as Imam in addition to the 12 Imams, hence why he is called Imam Ahmad al Hassan a.s. This has been discussed previously, see previous 1-2 pages of the thread.

Mafhhzb,

I said before I don't have time to watch the videos. Anything you have to say please write it down instead of posting another 1 1/2 hr video. That would be appreciated.

Edited October 3, 2011 by GreenLantern

[Appearance]

Refer between 2min 15 sec - 9min 15 sec {I hope you are not lazy to search for these minutes in the Video}: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McOmrepRHSg I believe this is enough to debunk your whole faith. But let me soon know your next Question if any more doubts holding you back from the Right path.

I apologize if I take long in answering because I have work and Inshallah will try my best with the help of Allah swt to convey the truth whenever I get the chance...

As you presented, MAFHHZB, in your video and you actually thought that there is no brackets in such narration but you missed scrolling your cursor to the previous 2 pages were you’ll find it in brackets!!

As the narration with the same Sanad in the same book Ikmal aldeen on page 327-328 and its context is almost the same as the narration you mentioned about the signs of Al-Qai’em’s emergence, it puts the phrase (from Yemen) in brackets:

The reason of putting (from Yemen) phrase into brackets is not mentioned in all the old printings because this bracketing means either that this phrase is found in a single written copy that standed alone in mentioning this phrase (from Yemen) however the reason should be mentioned in the footnote by the copyist, examiner or the author, or that it was placed surreptitiously.

As I observed in more than an old copy for the phrase (from Yemen) and I didn’t find it and the other copies mentions it and puts it within brackets without mentioning the resource from which it took it and I didn’t find for it any explanation except that one of the authors or copyists has shoved it by himself at the risk of wanting to perfect the context of the narration, the way they are doing today in the publication foundations. As there is no reasonable meaning for putting this phrase within brackets except what is aforementioned.

This is the only book and issue that mentioned the phrase (from Yemen) and it was between brackets and the reason of bracketing isn’t mentioned in the footnote:

1-The Book: Kamal Al-Deen wa Tammam Al-Ni’ema

Author: Sheikh Al-Sadooq

Death: 381 H

2-The Book: Mujaam Ahadeeth Al-Imam Al-Mahdy

Author: Sheikh Ali Al-Korani

So who wants to make sure of what has been said, you can check the old publications:

As you can see that the highlighted part doesn't have the word (from yemen) and it's the same context of the narration regarding yamani.... This is in Bihat Al-Anwar part 51 page 218 , as it appears to you all....

Same thing here, in the book of Alam Al-Wara, page 233, no brackets for the phrase (from yemen) , but simply the emergence of Yamani....

There are more books that doens't mention the phrase so you can refer to it.... Kashf Al-Q'uma, Muntakhab Al-Anwar Al-Mudee'ah, Bisharat Al-Islam etc.

In conclusion, the phrase (from Yemen) wasn't there at the first place or else ALL those who narrated the Hadith from the Book Ikmal AL-Deen didn't find the phrase (from Yemen) when they narrated it and mentioned it in their books so how was it found after that ????

This proves that there wasn't this phrase in the book at the first place... Alhamdulillah.

The meaning of Yaman is also controversial to some, so even if we said that it means Yamani is from Yemen, it shouldn’t be that he lives in Yemen specifically. As it’s well known and can’t be denied that many people belong to a place but they live in another place. For example, Suhaib is from Rome and Bilal is from Habasheh but they both lived and died in the Arab countries, and also you have Sayyed Al-Khoie who belongs to the city of Kho’e while he lived and died in Iraq, etc.

Also it’s known that Mecca is from Tuhama and Tuhama is from Yaman, as the Prophet (pbuhf) and his Ahlul Bait are Yamanese as it is narrated that Prophet Muhammad (pbuhf) said: “Iman/belief is Yamani and the wisdom is Yamanite” and he also said: “Belief is Yaman and I am Yamani”.

@appearence ur answer is brother insha post

here is the deal:

i am not even going to read those haidths u posted as brother mafhbz pointed out before ur hadiths that are translated from arabic is wrong, unless i get the original source (scanned from the book) of the arabic text i wont even look at those hadiths.

my question still stands why was the quran not revealed in other languages beside Arabic?

just answer it and dont go around in circles posting qurainc verse and copy pasting hadiths

Imam (as) knew more then 7 languages in fact all of them, the hadith i posted pointed out that IMAM (as) knew other languages which ahmad313 was denying earlier.

all i am saying is this bring some contribution he has made to the world or HIS intelligence ( has he answered any question (that scientist themselves could not) on math, science and etc)

There is a point of giving you references when we put a hadeeth here, so go and search brother, nevertheless read this since you know Arabic, it is the original text of the Hadith I gave you earlier on how to know the Sahib Al-Amr, now either you choose Ahlul Bait's way of recognizing the claimant or follow your desire....

my other question still stands : HOW do even know his age is not cut off?

This is already answered , refer to the preceded posts.

[Love-Of-Islam]

@apperance no its not u bought 1 example and i bought another one of ghulam ahmed who lived until he was 73! now tell me how did his age get cut off?

also bro mafhhzb i went to HSB the link u provided i was right they are like those girls who come door to door to sell there cookies. But the funny part is the last post in HSB LOL shows how stupid ppl are

Edited October 3, 2011 by Love-Of-Islam

[Ahmad 313]

You are such an ignorant fool with your utterances.

What if I were to tell you that you believed in the supremacy of the Flying Spaghetti Monster? You would find it ridiculous, just as I find your assumptions about my faith ridiculous. You only show the ignorance that your "Imam" Ahmed Ismail seems to have increased.

I call the curse of Allah upon me, my wife, my mother and father, and all of my family if I am wrong in the matter of Ahmed Ismail Gata, aka Ahmed Hassan Al Yamani, being what you have claimed.

Your turn.

I think you have proved that you truly are a fool after that silly reply, full of arrogance. In all honesty I feel bad saying this but you are truly proving how ignorant you are when you talk about Ahmad(as) yet you do not bring a single verse from the Quran or a Valid hadith to prove that he is wrong. Why you calling the curse of Allah on some innocent people, call the curse of Allah upon your self only. You are insha from WUP, you are a sunni, you deny the Wilayah of Ali(as), You love the people who killed Fatima(sa), You are only fooling yourself. I ask everyone, would you want a person that follows the killer of Fatima(sa) to tell you who the Yamani is? is that your way to figure out this out?

Insha first accept Ali and the rest of the Imams as your leaders, and then come to debate. Prove Abu Bakr's Khilafat from the Quran?

wow. this thread has just totally derailed in the few days i wasnt posting.

guys, lets not allow ourselves to become sidetracked or manipulated by the ansar of ahmad gheeta during their relentless river of rubbish.

lets get back on topic.

whysoserious - your question has merit. if i was to provide a hadith, which states that imam mahdi (ibn hassan al askiri (as)) will reveal the meaning of aleph laam meem, will that satisfy you?

ahmad313's argument is nothing but verbal diarrhoea. we have hadith that say the mahdi (hujja ibn hassan (atf)) will reveal the meaning of aleph laam meem. this will be proof of his zahoor.

ahmad then responds with some randomass hadith which does not mention aleph laam meem.

if someone other than the awaited imam (son of the 11th imam (as)) was to reveal aleph laam meem...do you not think [sarcasm]that might be a slightly important detail[/sarcasm], which probably would be mentioned in a hadith?

the ansar are trying to confuse us, and the readers, by mixing up the terms "imam" and "mahdi" and using them interchangably with their jackass of a leader. we need to be clear.

the son of the 11th Imam will return. by "imam" we are not talking about "12 mini-mahdis".

he will reveal aleph laam meem as proof of his zahoor.

by its very nature, this revelation must not come from anyone other than him, in person, at his return and rise.

if it was to come from anyone else, it would completely undermine the proof of his zahoor. how would we then identify him as the rightful imam, if someone else who was not him, revealed aleph laam meem?

all these hadiths that ahmad313 is pulling out of his ass are nothing but pure qiyas.

By you using the word "ass" in an islamic debate shows what a low and filthy creature you are. If words such as "ass" are going to be used in a debate, then you are not worth wasting time on. May Allah help you, and im sincerely saying this. You cannot provide one single hadith for any of your claims.

I would like one of you followers of Ahmad Hassan to clarify this for me, are you trying to say that it goes like this

Imam Ali a.s

Imam Hassan a.s

Imam Hussein a.s

Imam Ali ibn al Hussain a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ja'far ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Musa ibn Ja'far a.s

Imam Ali ibn Musa a.s

Imam Muhammed ibn Ali a.s

Imam Ali ibn Muhammed a.s

Imam Hassan ibn Ali a.s

The Yamani who you say is "Imam Ahmad al Hassan"

Then you say for the 12 Mahdis

Imam Mahdi a.j

11 more Mahdis (whoever they are)

Is this what you are trying to say??!?!?!

Salam Alaykum wr wb,

Ill put it for you in simpler terms inshAllah.

Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) is the messenger from Imam Al Mahdi(as). He is the first Mahdi mentioned in the will of the Prophetصلى الله عليه وآله, who would be the first believer, He is the First of the 313 companions in the 12th Imam(as), He is the Yamani Prophesized in multiple narrations, He is the successor of the 12th Imam(as). Meaning that he is the only person that can lead you the the 12th Imam(as). The Mahdi's after him will be his successors..I hope thats clear if not inshAllah ask your questions.

@Mahhfzb, Your seriously all over the place, stick to one debate.

Edited October 4, 2011 by Ahmad 313

[Maula Dha Mallang]

It is actually rather straight forward.

Mekkah is from? Tohama.

Tohama is from? Yemen.

Would you like an answer from the Yamani Ahmad Al Hassan (a.s) himself explaining that he is from Yemen?

what is it with you people and twisting even the most obvious of facts in order to prove your retard of a leaders credibility?

mekkah is from? tohama

tohama is from? yemen

ahmed gheeta is from? basra

basra is from? iraq

whats the link between basra and yemen again? or is basra from yemen too?

By you using the word "ass" in an islamic debate shows what a low and filthy creature you are. If words such as "ass" are going to be used in a debate, then you are not worth wasting time on. May Allah help you, and im sincerely saying this. You cannot provide one single hadith for any of your claims.

yeah, go ahead and focus on the word ass and completely ignore my point because you cant answer it.

the awaited imam (not one of the 12 mini-mahdis, not any engineers from basra) shall reveal the meaning of alef laam meem.

anyone who therefore claims knowledge of alef laam meem, but is not the awaited imam (al hujja ibn hassan (as)) is obviously a liar.

it would completely undermine his proof of his station if anyone other than him was to reveal it.

btw i need a new thermostat fitted in my bathroom for the underfloor tile heating, if i get ahmed gheeta a visa does he mind coming and installing it for me?

oh yeah, and what happened to the following answers:

We, the shia who reject ahmad al hassan on the grounds of he has no proof of his station, demand the answers to these three questions, as proof he has ilm e ghayb. the quran says "bring your proof if you are truthful". as muslims we therefore have a right to demand proof of his station, and he has no right to reject our questions unless he is a liar.

our questions are thus:

(1) why does the term "mau mau" affect MDM so much?

(2) why does P. Ease want a wall clock?

(3) why does he have such an arab supremecy thing going on?

we, the shia who reject him, will continue to reject him, and you, his ansar, will continue to be exposed as frauds forever (as this thread is the #1 hit on google when you search for ahmad al hassan) until he answers. anyone, who ever searches for his name on the internet, will find this thread, find this challenge and realise your engineer Imam has no more power than any member of this forum.

Imam Ahmad Al Hassan(as) is the messenger from Imam Al Mahdi(as).

and his proof of this is, what again? voices in his head?

He is the first Mahdi mentioned in the will of the Prophetصلى الله عليه وآله,

the will you have, as yet, not produced but we are meant to believe you anyway?

who would be the first believer,

so the rest of the world for the last 1400 years have been kuffar?

He is the First of the 313 companions in the 12th Imam(as),

wouldnt that be hazrat Isa (as) or khizr (as) or the ashaab e kahf (as) who came before him? or was he born before them?

He is the Yamani Prophesized in multiple narrations,

basra is not in yemen

He is the successor of the 12th Imam(as).

any sayed on earth could make that same claim

Meaning that he is the only person that can lead you the the 12th Imam(as).

come again :huh:

The Mahdi's after him will be his successors..

so if he says the imam is soon to return, will the other mahdis take it in turns for a day or two each?

[Philip]

it's sick how people discuss inheritance before the emergence of the imam to start with.

this is making omar abu bakr uthman & co. look like very decent people. at least they waited for the prophet to be gone.

what kind of topic of discussion is this??? sounds to me like a power-hungry kind of guy .. trying to convince everyone that he will rule the world or something .. and distract Muslim's attention on the 12th Imam .. who is clearly foretold by all schools of Islam. Even prophet Muhammad pbuh was not big on talking about inheritance and stuff .. so you want to tell me that your guy is following the sunnah of the prophet and understands Islam? you have no evidence .. you have no logic .. just a bunch of dreams by people that we don't know .. you really expect us to believe your friend's dreams, while you come up with conclusions that actually make no difference for us?

Are you trying to distract from our true objectives?? Killing Sufyani .. Killing Dajjal .. uniting this world in peace and justice??? ..

this topic is so useless and baseless, and surely a sign of the end-days.

peace

[Maula Dha Mallang]

this topic is so useless and baseless, and surely a sign of the end-days.

peace

brother you could not be more right. lets look again at this sign of end times, from kital al-irshad by sheikh Tusi (very reliable shia book)

sixty liars will come forward, all of them claiming prophethood, and twelve will come forward from the family of Abu Talib, all of them claiming the Imamate;

http://www.al-islam.org/masoom/bios/12thimam.html

crucially, this sign appears very close to the sign of the arab nations rising up and throwing off the foreign powers, as well as mentioning both egypt and syria.

throught this thread and all other threads - his ansar have repeatedly stated that he is the mahdi, an imam and a sayed. read the sign again and make up your own mind :)

their very existence is a sign of the end times. alhamdulillah, we the shia of ali (as) have defeated this test from our lord. may we pass all of them until the rise of the awaited one, al hujja ibn hassan (as)

[Maula Dha Mallang]

list of sayed claimants of the station of the awaited imam (atf) - count the number and check how many times the name "ahmad" or "muhammad" or names related like "abdallah" come up

(1) yahya ibn umar - descendent of imam zainul abideen (as)

(2) Muhammad al-nafs al-zakiyya - hassani sayed

(3) muhammed ibn abdullah al-aftah - son of imam jafar sadiq (as)

(4) Abdallah ibn Muawiya - decendent of hazrat Jafar Sadiq (as)

(5) muhammad ibn jafar sadiq - brother of hazrat musa kazim (as)

(6) Ubayd Allah al-mahdi billah - first caliph of the fatamid state

(7) muhammad Jaunpuri - descendent of hazrat musa kazim (as)

(8) ali muhammad shirazi - shirazi sayed

(9) muhammad ahmad - hassani sayed

(10) riaz ahmad gohar shahi - direct descendent of sufi baba gohar ali shah

(11) dia abdul zahra kadim - i take it you know who this nutbag was

(12) ahmad al hassan

we are living in the end times people. mark this sign off your lists.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

^^ can i just add a small note into your excellent post brother, if the yamani has no connection with the country of yemen other than the same claim that any other sayed can make, where does it end? the khorasani will not be from khorasan? the hasanid will not be related to imam hassan (as)? ak maghribi will not come from al maghrib (thats the west, right?) the turk will not be from turkey?

whats the point of him being identified as "the yamani" when he isnt from yemen (any more than any other of the millions of sayeds), when the other charachters are obviously going to be from the place that their title describes?

isnt this proof that he is a fraud? what do you think?

[Ahmad 313]

(1) yahya ibn umar - descendent of imam zainul abideen (as)

(2) Muhammad al-nafs al-zakiyya - hassani sayed

(3) muhammed ibn abdullah al-aftah - son of imam jafar sadiq (as)

(4) Abdallah ibn Muawiya - decendent of hazrat Jafar Sadiq (as)

(5) muhammad ibn jafar sadiq - brother of hazrat musa kazim (as)

(6) Ubayd Allah al-mahdi billah - first caliph of the fatamid state

(7) muhammad Jaunpuri - descendent of hazrat musa kazim (as)

(8) ali muhammad shirazi - shirazi sayed

(9) muhammad ahmad - hassani sayed

(10) riaz ahmad gohar shahi - direct descendent of sufi baba gohar ali shah

(11) dia abdul zahra kadim - i take it you know who this nutbag was

(12) ahmad al hassan

I challenge you to find me one person instead of Ahmad a.s that brought forth the Prophet's will as a Hujja onto mankind.

[Maula Dha Mallang]

I challenge you to find me one person instead of Ahmad a.s that brought forth the Prophet's will as a Hujja onto mankind.

im still waiting for YOU to produce the will actually. where is it? show me a scan or proofs of its validity

[Ahmad 313]

im still waiting for YOU to produce the will actually. where is it? show me a scan or proofs of its validity

Thats an attempt to run away from what you posted, its like what you posted does not mean anything and it fell from proving anything. Its like you confirm that Ahmad a.s is the only person who came forth with the Prophet's will. If you know any person show me that person and his name, this is a challenge that I will wait for you to bring until judgement day. And please refer back to AnsarAllah's link and post.