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In the Name of God بسم الله

I Found Something Shocking..

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orion, balls to your post.

theres an entire THREAD rammed more full of proof than a pomegranate is full of pips. go and read it. what kind of argument is "oh its an old thread therefore rejected, so post exactly the same posts in this thread so i can ignore them here as well".

i provided proof. i told you where it is. the onus is on YOU to educate yourself, not ME to spoon feed you.

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LOL someone link orion the "ayatollah khomeini goid or bad" thread. pages and pages of proof which had you all running around like headless chickens, and which to this DAY not one of you has been able to sufficiently rebutt.

oh wait...anything said against "imam" khomeini must obviously be a lie by freemasons

You mean this one?

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LOL, I went to the "Khomeini- Good or Bad" thread thinking there might be some substance to it, read the initial post, and the first thing that I saw was a link to Wikipedia, and phrases like "I've heard". Dissapointing stuff.

So as expected its the he said, she said proof.

And the best source cited is Wikipedia?

w00t.gif

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"Nothing surprising," as in "It's not surprising that someone from the West would include Emam Khomeini in this list" ?

Or "nothing surprising," as in "It is perfectly reasonable to suggest that Emam Khomeini was the third most evil man in history" ?

In this case, I meant the first one though I don't disagree with the fact that some of his actions were un-Islamic..

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indeed. make sure you read the whole THREAD, not just the first post and assume to know the rest

Can you please take something from that thread and post it here? Bring the strongest proof that you have showing his supposed extreme evil deeds. Since you are accusing a fellow muslim of being evil (a great sin if you have no proof for it), you must be able to prove it by Islamic standards.

Edited by Muhammed Ali
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(salam)

Those that were ordered killed where 'terrorist' there plan was to de-rail the Islamic republic, some where backed by saddam, some by the US, some where kurdish sepritist fighting and killing. One state worth remembering is that Ruhalah Khomainie lost 75% of his close assosicate as well as 750,000+ country men! For only 30,000 to be excuted seems way outa proportaion

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man, you guys are such a pair of geniuses its brilliant. i dont even need to write any insults, you guys just HAND me material.

indeed. make sure you read the whole THREAD, not just the first post and assume to know the rest

ok.

so

i said

read the whole thread, not the first post, and assume to know the rest.

hope i arent going too fast for you. lets see what tweedle dum and tweedle dee wrote.

LOL, I went to the "Khomeini- Good or Bad" thread thinking there might be some substance to it, read the initial post, and the first thing that I saw was a link to Wikipedia, and phrases like "I've heard". Dissapointing stuff.

jesus-facepalm-facepalm-jesus-epic-demotivational-poster-1218659828.jpg

and lets now see what his orion said.

So as expected its the he said, she said proof.

And the best source cited is Wikipedia?

polar-bear-face-palmthumbnail.jpg

listen to me carefully, since a simple fact is not permeating your khomeini tinted glasses. only the first post sourced wikipedia. the following *SIX PAGES* had evidence for every single thing you need.

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(bismillah)

MDM, you have time to post animal pictures but you cant point us to a single post from that thread with solid evidence?????? Rather you want us to read all 5 pages long thread. Why cant you just make life easy for everyone and give us a link to one of your posts with proof????

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orion, why dont YOU post some of my posts? im sure you know how to cut and paste. your whole argument is ridiculous. its in another thread so evidence doesnt exist? its on another thread so you refuse to read it? its all there but because its 5 pages long its too much for you?

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orion, why dont YOU post some of my posts? im sure you know how to cut and paste. your whole argument is ridiculous. its in another thread so evidence doesnt exist? its on another thread so you refuse to read it? its all there but because its 5 pages long its too much for you?

MDM, dont be lazy. Why do you want me to pick your load. Why cant you do it yourself?

Pick one of your post with strongest evidence and post it here.

We will discuss it, InshaAllah.

I think MDM has a point here. Why should he repeat things said in a certain thread - you asked for evidence, he claims it's in that thread. Stop being lazy.

OK Psychopath, help us out.

Pick one of MDM's posts from that thread, which you think has strongest evidence, and post it for us.

I am willing to discuss it here.

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Orion: You should either read the thread and if you are able to refute or it is not evidence, then you can say so. Otherwise, do not claim that you were denied evidence. I personally do not think Khomeini was evil - I am simply arguing against you because of the principal: you were provided a reference but you were too lazy to go through it.

Edited by Psychopath
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Haha, I skimmed through the first page of the thread. When Mallang gets asked about the evidence of Shariatmadari being tortured to death as he claims, he says that Shariatmadari was denied antibiotics (without citation) and than goes on to give a link to a website, with blurry and unclear pictures, apparently showing how Ayatollah Shirazis body was snatched from his funeral! :lol: So this is his evidence, not to say, western reports about Human rights there, and books written by exiles.

Edited by shiasoldier786
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Haha, I skimmed through the first page of the thread. When Mallang gets asked about the evidence of Shariatmadari being tortured to death as he claims, he says that Shariatmadari was denied antibiotics (without citation) and than goes on to give a link to a website, with blurry and unclear pictures, apparently showing how Ayatollah Shirazis body was snatched from his funeral! :lol: So this is his evidence, not to say, western reports about Human rights there, and books written by exiles.

http://www.shiachat....ost__p__1830550

Is this what he calls "evidence"??????? He said Ayatullah Shariatmadari was denied antibiotics but no proof?

This issue is very old. I remember Ayatullah Shariatmadari came on TV and apologized saying something like "mun sharminda um" i.e. I am ashamed (for what I did). May Allah forgive his mistake and may his soul rest in peace.

I remember on this very forum people used to claim that Ayatullah Shirazi is under house arrest. Than I found his current photos inaugurating something that proved that he was free.

WS

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I wish you guys wouldn't argue on such an issue. Or at the very least, make your own thread about it instead of bombarding mine O.o

Most of your posts are invalid and make no sense. It's basically spamming.

Honestly, I got an entire page filled with "Wheres your proof"

Edited by Jay
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Well there is no question that Shariatmadari's body was spirited away the ayatollah's female progeny were physically assaulted while celebrating his life at a memorial for him, but the whereabouts of his body is known only to a few and his family is not included. The frequent question around here when trying to afix blame is "who would benefit?

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once again, orion and shia soldier blind us with their brilliance when it comes to ignoring a simple statement and cherry picking what to post here *rolls eyes*

let me try again.

read the entire thread you pair of turnips. it builds up a mosaic which only points to one thing - khomeini was and is guilty of all charges.

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once again, orion and shia soldier blind us with their brilliance when it comes to ignoring a simple statement and cherry picking what to post here *rolls eyes*

let me try again.

read the entire thread you pair of turnips. it builds up a mosaic which only points to one thing - khomeini was and is guilty of all charges.

Brother, Even though Khomeini came back from the death, and said to them that he was guilty they wouldn't believe..

You have done everything you could lets just stop this discussion, they think of their scholars as supernatural beings.

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On 9/10/2010 at 2:58 AM, maula dha mallang said:

once again, orion and shia soldier blind us with their brilliance when it comes to ignoring a simple statement and cherry picking what to post here *rolls eyes*

let me try again.

read the entire thread you pair of turnips. it builds up a mosaic which only points to one thing - khomeini was and is guilty of all charges.

(bismillah)

(salam)

mdm your utter hate for such a high religious personality and for shia government in iran really disappoints

makes me wonder, is all your zanjeer talk just Ria

and are you a true shia, i honestly doubt it

or are you trying to be a clown for the gallery

kindly take my name of the members at shia nation

(wasalam)

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On 9/10/2010 at 4:07 AM, haideriam said:

(bismillah)

(salam)

mdm your utter hate for such a high religious personality and for shia government in iran really disappoints

makes me wonder, is all your zanjeer talk just Ria

and are you a true shia, i honestly doubt it

or are you trying to be a clown for the gallery

kindly take my name of the members at shia nation

(wasalam)

How dare you questioning his Faith and his love for Imam Hussain May peace and blessings be upon his holy soul and his pure progeny.

Just because he doesnt like the Irani Government ?

shame on you.. shame on you

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On 9/10/2010 at 3:51 AM, GhulamMahdi said:

Brother, Even though Khomeini came back from the death, and said to them that he was guilty they wouldn't believe..

You have done everything you could lets just stop this discussion, they think of their scholars as supernatural beings.

(bismillah)

You guys have no proof, just baseless allegations. It does not matter what you guys say or think. Millions of Shia believe that Imam Khomeini (AR) was a true servant of Imam Mahdi (ATF). He is InshaAllah, sitting in the company of his forefathers the Prophet (S), Imam Ali (as), Imam Hussain (as) and the rest of Ahlul Bait (as). While you continue to increase the weight of your sins and destroy your fate in the hereafter by your baseless allegations - Tohmats - on him.

And MDM why are you scared of presenting your proof here in this thread. I think you know in your heart that what you have is all bogus. Copy and paste from the western propaganda machines or the decedents.

Wake up and see around you. We are probably living in the last era. The world is polarizing. There are wars, disease epidemics, earthquakes, tsunamis, air line crashes, volcano eruptions, heavy floods not seen before. World economies are in trouble. Shia are being killed in Iraq and Pakistan. Its time to get your house in order. You dont want to be on the wrong side of the fence when Imam (ATF) comes.

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orion sc is blocked at work, so as i said i am using my mobile. as such, it is pretty much impossible for me to reproduce my posts here for your benefit.

the only times i get on a pc are late at night (like last night -2am) when im too tired to do it anyway.

these are my reasons for not posting. it has nothing to do with fear. god knows i have nothing to fear from a bunch of avatars i will never meet.

explain to me whats so important to you, that its IMPOSSIBLE for you to accept anything unless its given to you on a plate in this thread. the amount of time you have wasted by avoiding reading it makes you look spineless and slightly insane. you could have read the entire thread 3 times over by now instead of dithering.

haideriam - it is BECAUSE i love hussain that i must never remain quiet when i see evil done in his name

Edited by maula dha mallang
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How dare you questioning his Faith and his love for Imam Hussain May peace and blessings be upon his holy soul and his pure progeny.

Just because he doesnt like the Irani Government ?

shame on you.. shame on you

(bismillah)

(salam)

check post 42 at did agha khomeini(ra) fall from his coffin

disgusting and so full of hate

also it is not irani as you say it is your only shia government, now you see where the shame goes

or like the orthodox jews you also do not believe in a homeland/government and you have to live in exile

mdm. you are only seeing what you hear from propaganda machines, please wake up

there is no perfect utopia till the imam(as) comes, but we have to strive/try

positive criticism without a fence in between

(wasalam)

Edited by haideriam
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orion sc is blocked at work, so as i said i am using my mobile. as such, it is pretty much impossible for me to reproduce my posts here for your benefit.

the only times i get on a pc are late at night (like last night -2am) when im too tired to do it anyway.

these are my reasons for not posting. it has nothing to do with fear. god knows i have nothing to fear from a bunch of avatars i will never meet.

explain to me whats so important to you, that its IMPOSSIBLE for you to accept anything unless its given to you on a plate in this thread. the amount of time you have wasted by avoiding reading it makes you look spineless and slightly insane. you could have read the entire thread 3 times over by now instead of dithering.

(bismillah)

MDM, it seems like you have a genuine internet access issue. In that case, I except your excuse.

I will go to that thread and read your posts.

Since its 5 page long it will take me some time to address all your posts.

But InshaAllah, I will do it.

Happy now? :)

WS

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Everybody(the kuffar) at the time of the prophet BELIEVED in Idols

Does that justify Idols?

Millions of Shia BELIEVE that Imam Khomeini (AR) was a true servant of Imam Mahdi

see the difference, and it is a world of a difference

(wasalam)

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(bismillah)

OK let me starts with your first post:

in the name of Allah, the beneficient, the merciful.

lanat on the enemies of the ahlebeyt.

firstly, no im not a fitnah monger. im not a zionist spy. im not disrespecting and scholar and im not making a meaningless thread.

this is a serious, critical discussion i want.

the basis of this thread was this:

political thought and legacy of ayatollah khomeini:

http://en.wikipedia....acy_of_Khomeini

are the following points true or not:

(1) ayatollah khomeini was about to get executed in jail

At one point during his strugle he was about to be executed by the Shah (LA).

(2) ayatollah shariatmadari (Allah bless his soul) went around and got loads of marjas signatures to make ayatollah khomeini a mujtahid cos mujtahids cant be put to death

I dont know the role of Ayatullah Shariatmadari in this, but he was announced to be a Mujtahid. But that does not mean other scholars would just make someone a Mujtahid who does not deserve to be one. That would be a very bad alligation on all the Marja of that era. At some point in a scholars life he is recognized to be an Hujjat ul Islam, an Ayatullah (mujtahid) an Ayatullah al-Uzma (marja taqlid) and finally an Aalam (most knowledgeable scholar). Its a process that takes place based on merit and recognition by the hawza teachers.

If the Marja think that some scholar has wrongly become a Mujtahid they openly state their opinion. You must know this from discussions about some scholars on ShiaChat.

To conclude that Imam Khomeini (AR) did not deserve to be a Mujtahid or Marja and still none of the main stream Marja spoke against him would not only be wrong but also blame all other Marja for not having the guts to speak.

(3) the revolution happened, many scholars were instrumental in rallying support and spreading the word, but only ayatollah khomeini was recognised as the key player.

Imam Khomeini (AR) was THE KEY PLAYER of the revolution. There is no question about it. I can myself testify to this fact.

(4) the pasdars were a bunch of goddamned gestapo harami zalims, torturing and killing people like crazy

We have no evidence for this allegation.

(5) ayatollah khomeini pushed this wilayat faqih muqtala thing, loads of scholars disagreed with him

Some scholars agreed with him and some disagreed.

(6) one of the rights of the WF is to change the furu e deen astagfirullah. case in point - ayatollah khomeini stopped people going to hajj for a year, as though he has any right to do that.

Not only WF, but every qualified faqih has that power. Grand Ayatullah Mirza Hassan Shirazi exercised this power in 1891 when he issued a fatwa banning the use of tobacco. And as we know he was not WF. Such orders are reserved for extreme conditions to save Shia from some greater harm. Also they are temparary i.e. reversed after the conditions change and threat is over.

For example if there is a deadly epidemic in Mecca and Madinah in 2011. Thousands of people are dying and there is a genuine fear that thousands of pilgrims could contact the disease and die. A Marja could issue a fatwa banning Hajj for that year (2011). The fatwa could be reversed when epidemic resolves or a vaccine is found.

(7) marjas disagreed with this view. marjas included ayatollah shaheed shariatmadari, ayatollah shirazi, ayatollah montazeri and ayatollah rastegrari.

Lets face it. Put two scholars in one room, and expect them to agree on everything. Its not gona happen. Its natural and expected. The earlier we get over it the better it is for us.

All Murjas today believe in the concept of WF. However, they disagree on the authority and implimentation (i.e. finer details). For example from the names you have written above Ayatullah Shirazi agreed with WF but wanted to have a councel of Marjas (instead of one). On the other hand Ayatullah Montazari wanted more freedom and so on.

(8) ayatollah shariatmadari was STRIPPED of his marja status, and tortured to death for opposing the WF. the man who saved ayatollah khomeinis life. from what ive heard, death must have been a sweet relief for him after what he endured at the hands of the pro WF police. may Allah rest his soul.

Ayatullah Shariatmadar apparently made some mistakes and apologized for them. I saw his statement on TV myself. This much we know. As far as if he was murdered and so on, we have no proof.

(9) when ayatollah khamenei was sworn in (or whatever its called) he said something along the lines of the jurist doesnt have complete authority, and was critisised by ayatollah khomeini and apologised for it

Imam Khomeini (AR) was a father figure for the whole nation including scholars like ayatollah khamenei. If Imam Khomeini corrected him about something thats a good thing,

(10) why did ayatollah khomeini first say that the most knowledgeable man had to be WF, and then retract that statement later?

It was a condition for WF to be a Marja. Latter it was changed to being a Faqih. There could be many reasons for that. For example being WF is a hard job. Most marjas are 70, 80 or 90 year old. It is difficult to find a Marja capable or willing to run a country.

If you have any questions about my reply or need more clarification, please feel free to ask.

WS

Edited by Orion
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On 9/10/2010 at 4:26 AM, Orion said:

Wake up and see around you. We are probably living in the last era. The world is polarizing. There are wars, disease epidemics, earthquakes, tsunamis, air line crashes, volcano eruptions, heavy floods not seen before. World economies are in trouble. Shia are being killed in Iraq and Pakistan. Its time to get your house in order. You dont want to be on the wrong side of the fence when Imam (ATF) comes.

People have been talking this stuff for a thousand years. The end is nearsad.gif The end is near repent, repent.

You are one of those who refuses to believe when hundreds of political prisoners and arrested demonstrators testify to the regime's brutality and call it some insane conspiracy.

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