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bi_ithnillaah

Why Do We Celebrate Imams'/prophet's Birthdays?

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.. so where's the ahadeeth about the Imams or their companions singing nohas and doing strange rituals and holding lectures and parties specifically on those days in rememberance of their births? I am not saying it's haraam to do so, I am just asking for any ahadeeth that support those actions.

You might as well ask why should we listen to anasheed, latmiyat...or why even go to lectures in general? Seriously I don't know of any authentic hadiths that state the Imam's celebrated their birthdays on a yearly basis. But really think about what you're asking...because we don't need any hadiths to support our actions.

What do we even do at mowlood parties? Listen to a lecture, read some poetry, listen to some mowlood songs, have some sweets and food. Now what part of these are strange rituals :dry: ??

Even if you dont find any authentic hadiths, so what? Is it so bad that we're using the masoomen's birthdays as an excuse to get together as a Shia community..and have some yummy food...whilst learing more about our deen. :D

However I do know that in the Arab Gulf countries (maybe others arabs too?) they have a celebration on the 15th Ramdhan called Gerge'an ÞÑÞÚÇä. Children (sunni and shia) dress up in traditional local clothes, and knock on people's doors and receive sweets (kinda like halloween). The origins of this celebration comes from the birth of Imam Hassan (as). When he was born, Rasulallah (pbuh) gave all the children (no matter what their religion was) sweets..and this tradition is still going on in these countries, where the elders give children sweets on this day. It's actually very similar to what we do at mowlood parties, don't you think?

Now if this is true, which it most probably is, we don't really need other hadiths.

Also to add, the word Gerge'an ÞÑÞÚÇä , is derived from ÞÑÉ Úíä Gorata 3ein, which is what Rasulullah (pbuh) said when Imam Hassan (as) was born.

Typical girl dressed up for Gerge'an, ain't she cute? ^_^

post-70265-12825271128851_thumb.jpg

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lol koko313 you're funny. To be honest I've never been to one of those mawlud party things before, so I have no idea what happens at them. I've only heard of some of the strange things shi'a do on ashura and 15th sha'ban etc etc.. so wasn't sure what might happen at those parties. The point of even holding a party is my question though. Again, I'm just asking for sources and wondering where these things originated from. I agree that in general the muslims gathering and learning more about Islaam is an excellent thing. But I also fear of falling into something the Imams and the Prophet would not have encouraged. Also, I didn't mean to offend with "strange rituals" so I'm sorry if that upset you.

Btw, I have never heard of this halloween type of practice before. Do you know where to find the hadeeth you were talking about?

And yes the little girl is very cute masha Allaah.

Btw #2 - I've noticed a few times (on other posts too) that you say a g instead of a q for Þ......

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To be honest I've never been to one of those mawlud party things before, so I have no idea what happens at them.

The point of even holding a party is my question though. Again, I'm just asking for sources and wondering where these things originated from.

I agree that in general the muslims gathering and learning more about Islaam is an excellent thing. But I also fear of falling into something the Imams and the Prophet would not have encouraged.

:o :o omg bro/sis where do you live? You should check out your local Islamic centres or hussainiyat and attend some. I know if you do, you wouldn't even be asking this question. Because like I've said above, there is nothing unislamic done at these parties. There is nothing that the Prophet (pbuh) would not have encouraged. It's just a get together of Shia's learning about their deen and having fun at the same time. And what better time to do this, than on the birth of our infallible Imams, where we can commemerate their lives (which is what Allah wants us to do, so does it make a difference if we do this on their birthday or any other day?)

And I'm going to emphasise this point again, that even if you do not find any hadiths, it does not mean celebrating their births is wrong/haram. Allah always wants us to remember our Imams, learn about them and gather in our communities and welcome eachother into our homes/mosques...which is basically what we do in such occasions.

I read you're a convert, so I have to tell you incase you haven't noticed..Shias use any excuse they can to hold majalis/ceremonies. The birth of our 12 Imams is like 12 eids for us. I'll give you an example from my family. I'm not a child, but my grandparents still give me and my sister 'eid money' on these birthdays. Now tell me, do I need to look for a hadith to see if this is permissible? ...I hope you get my point.

Also, I didn't mean to offend with "strange rituals" so I'm sorry if that upset you.

Don't worry about it. ^_^

Btw, I have never heard of this halloween type of practice before. Do you know where to find the hadeeth you were talking about?

No I don't, but is it so hard to believe our Prophet would give sweets to children when his beloved grandson was born?

Btw #2 - I've noticed a few times (on other posts too) that you say a g instead of a q for ق......

lool you're right..I actually did type Q for gerge'an first..but it just looked wrong so I used G instead. I guess it depends on the word..and to me G sounds more like ق than Q does.

Edited by koko313

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(bismillah)

I attend the shi'a center in my city usually every Saturday night. But people hold those parties in their homes and I don't know what goes on in people's homes. At the center they do have a lecture on that specific night and I'm sorry sister but no matter how much you try to convince me that it's perfectly ok (which maybe it is, Allaahu a'lim), I am still looking for the sources of how these celebrations originated. Again I said nothing of it being wrong, but I need sources to understand where these practices came from in order to decide if I wish to participate in them.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

..... As to the salaf, I would certainly hope one would include Shaykh Mufid (ar) in that noble rank, who in his Masar ash-Shi`a wrote:

æÝì Çáíæã ÇáÓÇÈÚ ÚÔÑ ãäå ßÇä ãæáÏ ÓíÏäÇ ÑÓæá Çááå ÚäÏ ØáæÚ ÇáÝÌÑ ãä íæã ÇáÌãÚÉ Ýí ÚÇã ÇáÝíá æåæ íæã ÔÑíÝ ÚÙíã ÇáÈÑßÉ æáã áÇ íÒá ÇáÕÇáÍæä ãä Âá ãÍãÏ Úáì ÞÏíã ÇáÇæÞÇÊ íÚÙãæäå æíÚÑÝæä ÍÞå æíÑÚæä ÍÑãÊå æíÊØæÚæä ÈÕíÇãå æÑæì Úä ÇÆãÉ ÇáåÏì Ú Çäåã ÞÇáæÇ ãä ÕÇã Çáíæã ÇáÓÇÈÚ ÚÔÑ ãä ÔåÑ ÑÈíÚ ÇáÇæá æåæ ãæáÏ ÓíÏäÇ ÑÓæá Çááå Õ ßÊÈ Çááå ÓÈÍÇäå áå ÕíÇã ÓäÉ æ íÓÊÍÈ Ýíå ÇáÕÏÞÉ æÒíÇÑÉ ÇáãÔÇåÏ æÇáÊØæÚ ÈÇáÎíÑÇÊ æÇÏÎÇá ÇáÓÑæÑ Úáì Çåáå .

And in the seventeenth of it (Rabi` al-Awwal) was the Mawlid of our Master the Messenger of Allah with the dawning of fajr, on the day of Jum`a, in the year of the elephant. And it is a noble day, great in blessing. And the righteous from the Aal Muhammad from the ancient of times have never ceased to venerate it and recognize its haqq and encouraged its respect and voluntarily do its fasting. And it is narrated from the Imams of guidance Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã that they said: Whoever fasts the day of the seventeenth from the month of Rabi` al-Awwal, and it is the Mawlid of our Master the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå, Allah writes for him the fasting of a year. And it is recommended (to give) sadaqa in it and (to do) ziyara to the mashahid and the voluntary doing of good deeds and the entrance of happiness upon its people.

And one would certainly hope you would include the Shaykh at-Ta'ifa himself, Shaykh Tusi, who in his Misbah al-Mutahajjid wrote:

æÝí Çáíæã ÇáÓÇÈÚ ÚÔÑ ãäå ßÇä ãæáÏ ÓíÏäÇ ÑÓæá Çááå Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ÚäÏ ØáæÚ ÇáÝÌÑ ãä íæã ÇáÌãÚÉ Ýí ÚÇã ÇáÝíá æåæ íæã ÔÑíÝ ÚÙíã ÇáÈÑßÉ¡ æÝí Õæãå ÝÖá ßËíÑ æËæÇÈ ÌÒíá æåæ ÃÍÏ ÇáÃíÇã ÇáÃÑÈÚÉ¡ ÝÑæí Úäåã Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã Ãäåã ÞÇáæÇ: ãä ÕÇã íæã ÇáÓÇÈÚ ÚÔÑ ãä ÔåÑ ÑÈíÚ ÇáÃæá ßÊÈ Çááå áå ÕíÇã ÓäÉ¡ æíÓÊÍÈ Ýíå ÇáÕÏÞÉ æÒíÇÑÉ ÇáãÔÇåÏ.

And in the seventeen of it (Rabi` al-Awwal) was the Mawlid of the Messenger of Allah Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå with the dawning of fajr, on the day of Jum`a, in the year of the elephant. And it is a noble day, great in blessing. And regarding its fasting there is great virtue and plentiful thawab. And it is one of the four days. So it is narrated from them Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã that they said: Whoever fasts on the day of the seventeenth of the month of Rabi` al-Awwal, Allah writes the fasting of a year for him. And (giving) sadaqa is recommended in it, and ziyara to the mashahid.

Enjoy.

(salam)

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Thank you Dar'ul_Islam, however we did semi address fasting already. The ziyarah and sadaqa taken into account as well, that doesn't explain any other practices. Unless all this stuff just falls under "good deeds" from Shaykh Mufeed, which I could see the argument for.

Anyway, thanks for the post, but there are a lot of other things that aren't really addressed yet. When did those days become known for lectures and parties among the shi'a? And why?

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(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Thank you Dar'ul_Islam, however we did semi address fasting already. The ziyarah and sadaqa taken into account as well, that doesn't explain any other practices. Unless all this stuff just falls under "good deeds" from Shaykh Mufeed, which I could see the argument for.

Anyway, thanks for the post, but there are a lot of other things that aren't really addressed yet. When did those days become known for lectures and parties among the shi'a? And why?

(bismillah)

When they realize deeds on that day are worth more sawaab. Feed mu'mineen, sitting in gatherings of knowledge..etc etc

(salam)

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(salam)

Define 'celebrate'. In terms of fasting, giving sadaqat, doing ziyaraat, du`a, lectures, etc. on the birth date of the Prophet (pbuh) or Imams (as), there is no harm in it and some scholars encourage it. If that's your idea of celebration, then there is nothing wrong with it I think. But, pulling out a cake with candles, throwing a party, listening to music, dances, etc. and all other haraam or makrooh things still apply on these days, and we should be careful not to make other bid`as on these days.

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With the upcoming wiladat of Imam Hassan, i was thinking about the purpose of celebrating the Imams' and the Prophet's birthday. Many say it is for the purpose of remembering the Imams/Prophets etc etc, but how did these practices develop? When did they first start? Because I can't recall at this moment any ahadeeth I've ever read regarding specifically commemorating the Imams'/Prophet's birthday. Of course we show love for them, but how did the original shi'a community express their love and devotion? Are there any sources at all about commemorating their birthdays specifically rather than just generally showing love for them?

(bismillah)

(wasalam)

Ok I am quoting myself above so that we can try to address everything. Brothers Qa'im and Dar'ul_Islam, and koko, have addressed the issue of lectures and gathering to eat together are basically good deeds and no problem in them. So this can answer "the purpose" that I asked about. But what about everything else? What do we know of the original shi'a community and how they regarded the imams and the Prophet on their days of birth? Was it anything special at the time? When did the traditions of lectures & food on this day begin? I'm not saying it's wrong, but I want to understand the origins. I can understand "why" these specific things have become the norm, as they are good deeds and educate Muslims etc etc, but what about how and if there aren't even better things we could be doing on this day instead?

As we see in the quotes by Shaykh Tusi and Shaykh Mufeed, good things to do on those days are ziyarah, giving sadaqah, fasting.. but why aren't our communities upholding these practices now? Instead we've replaced them with lectures and parties.

Am I the only one who sees any problem? (not talking about the good deeds of Islaamic education and food..)

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As we see in the quotes by Shaykh Tusi and Shaykh Mufeed, good things to do on those days are ziyarah, giving sadaqah, fasting.. but why aren't our communities upholding these practices now? Instead we've replaced them with lectures and parties.

Am I the only one who sees any problem? (not talking about the good deeds of Islaamic education and food..)

(bismillah)

Actually, most of our communities uphold and promote fasting, sadqah, ziyaraat on these days... a lot. Lectures are for gaining knowledge - a wajib upon us. Parties are nothing bad; it is how a some people show happiness on a day of barakah. Just as long as there is nothing haraam being done.

The origin of said practices I do not know of.

(salam)

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Inshaa'Allaah I hope this helps. The idea of Mawlid an Nabee started with the Fatimid Dynasty and then spread. Below is an excerpt taken from Wikipedia with sources given on its site, but the Mawlid an Nabee is agreed upon on its origin being from the Fatimid Dynasty:

"Public celebrations of the birth of Muhammad did not occur until four centuries after his death. It was originally a festival of the Shia (Fatimid Dynasty) ruling class, not attended by the common people, with the first official Mawlid celebrations occurring in Egypt towards the end of the eleventh century. The early celebrations included elements of Sufic influence, with animal sacrifices and torchlight processions along with public sermons and a feast. The celebrations occurred during the day, in contrast to modern day observances, with the ruler playing a key role in the ceremonies. Emphasis was given to the Ahl al-Bayt with presentation of sermons and recitations of the Qur'an. The event also featured the award of gifts to officials in order to bolster support for the ruling caliph.

The first public celebrations by Sunnis took place in twelfth-century Syria, under the rule of Nur ad-Din Zangi Though there is no firm evidence to indicate the reason for the adoption of the Shi'ite festival by the Sunnis, some theorise the celebrations took hold to counter Christian influence in places such as Spain and Morocco. Theologians denounced the celebration of Mawlid as unorthodox, and the practice was briefly halted by the Ayoubides when they came to power, becoming an event confined to family circles. It regained status as an official event again in 1207 when it was re-introduced by Muzaffar ad-din, the brother-in-law of Saladin, in Arbil, a town near Mosul, Iraq.

The practice spread throughout the Muslim world, assimilating local customs, to places such as Cairo, where folklore and Sufic practices greatly influenced the celebrations. By 1588 it had spread to the court of Murad III, Sultan of the Ottoman empire. In 1910, it was given official status as a national festival throughout the Ottoman empire. Today it is an official holiday in many parts of the world."

This is where an:

Usoolee will say the basic principle of fasting, charity, majaalis, etc... are good, so it is also good to do it on the day the Prophet (SAWAS) was born. They think: "Why not do it on this great auspicious day?"

Akhbaree will say you can't single out THAT specific day unless there are explicit ahaadeeth SAYING to fast on that day (which there are), to give charity (?), majaalis (?), etc... For example, did any of the A'immah (as) say specifically that today is the 17th and we are going to have a majaalis because it is the Prophet's (SAWAS) birthday? If there are ahaadeeth saying these things explicitly, then it doesn't fall under bid'ah.

So if you go by the Akhbaree logic, then you see why all these innovations happened FOUR centuries AFTER the Prophet (SAWAS). We need to make sure we keep it to what has been narrated and stop taking the Usool, UNLESS there is a GENERAL hadeeth specifically on this subject.

For example: "Anything good you do on this day will be rewarded 70 times more or something." Now that would fall under EVERYTHING that is good can be done on THAT specific day. If there is a hadeeth like that, then you can do majaalis, charity, etc.. But if there aren't ahaadeeth regarding the matter, then it falls in line with being a bid'ah.

(salam)

Edited by Abu Abdullaah

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