Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
IslamicMarxist

Communism And Islam

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Quite frankly Jinn, I'm no longer interested in this discussion. I said my point a million times, you're gonna say yours again a million times. Nobody's going to convince the other person, and the exchange of ideas and opinions already reached its maximum by now, in my opinion.

I understand. Personally, I follow different traditions and beliefs than what you have been taught. Much of my support for political ideologies and systems such socialism, tribalism, communism, anarchism, etc. comes from my personal experiences and my religious beliefs.

I quoted from the Koran and from prophet Mohammad's texts that nomadic ways of life is detrimental to the belief of a Muslim. In order to be a good Muslim, you must be civilized. Now whether you choose to live in a big city, small town, suburbs or rural areas is completely up to you. But choosing to live like nomads is something completely different, and unacceptable to God and the prophet's teachings.

You said the Prophet said this and that, but no real direct quotes. I was asking what actual quotes of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) and from where imply to you or say outright: "Don't live as a nomad" Because I personally have never read any such verse from the Quran or hadith to suggest that being a nomad, that is a person with no home who travels from place to place, is wrong. Again, if you have any direct quotes that say such a thing, I would like to read them. I'm not saying people have to be nomads or that being a nomad is an instant guard against sin, just that I believe it's an option we have that God has no problem with us choosing.

And on the prophets such as those I mentioned, again, what can you present to me to suggest they were anything but tribal people. Israelites were divided into "12 tribes." Do you honestly believe that there was never any sort of tribal ethics involved?

Regarding gold and silver, God has assigned it to us, so did our prophet.

"Money/wealth and kids" are the beauties of this world and the dunya.

"Women, children, mountains of gold and silver, and mansions (land)" etc.

These are all quotations of God.

And even our prophet assigned to us macro-currencies and micro-currencies: gold, silver, wheat, dates, etc.

Imam Ali sold his swords to make money and survive. Mohammad said that if it weren't for his wife's wealth that Islam wouldn't have spread.

From what I've read, Khadija gave up pretty much everything for the Muslims. That pretty much all of wealth and possessions was spent for the cause of Islam in general not herself. Khadija was the not the kind of woman who would even dream of keeping a majority of her wealth for herself. Like her husband, she lived what one would consider a rather ascetic lifestyle. She retired and spent the wealth she had to fund the Muslim community, not herself. Khadija's wealth was Islam's wealth.

Why would Ali need to sell his sword to make money? Forgive me, but that makes no sense unless he sold it to non-Muslims. I can't imagine any Muslim during the time of Ali who would refuse him food or household necessities unless they could hardly provide such things for themselves. If Ali did indeed require to sell his sword, I could not believe he sold it another Muslim unless that which he bought with the money was from non-Muslims. No Muslim would deny Imam Ali basic necessities out of their own possessions even if he couldn't pay for them. Neither would Ali ask others to give that which they need and cannot part with just for his sake. The only way that makes sense to me is if no one Ali knew amongst his fellow Muslims had enough money or necessities to spare to him and he needed to sell to and/or pay a non-Muslim merchant.

Women, children, and mountains of gold and silver are not all there is to this world. They're gifts but not the only gifts nor are they as valuable as we think. I don't believe that the enjoyment of this world is measured in gold and silver or sexuality. I believe God values a single, sincere, prayer, more than all the money, gold, and silver in the world combined and we humans should too. Again, if God could replace the entire ocean with gold coins worth millions(which he can at anytime) then what value is gold really? It actually has no worth beyond just being shiny and yellow at that point and it isn't anything beyond that now.We just created an illusion for ourselves that it is. We don't even really desire gold. Mostly we just want gold so we can sell it to somebody who does and get the things we actually want. If everyone could get as much gold as they wanted, gold would be no more valuable in terms of capitalist economics than a plastic bracelet you buy at a general store, perhaps less. In Paradise, there are no appraisers, no shopping malls, no currency, and gold and other precious metals can be given to anyone in any amount...so then what does that tell you? That tells me that gold in Paradise is but a party streamer, it's only purpose is to look pretty to those who find it pretty and nothing else, all of the value it has currently amongst a majority of us humans in this world is non-existent. It's just decoration there, the idea of it as anything else doesn't set into the minds of its inhabitants. Nobody covets it, nobody trades it for anything, nobody buys it with currency. The value of gold in this world is the same too, we just have created a delusion for ourselves that it isn't easily replaceable by God.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Haha, yeah. It's strange how socialism and capitalism have morphed from an argument over who owns the means of production to some sort of philosophical debate on the value of wealth.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings.

All i can say is... Communism and Marxism do not go along with Islam. A muslim doesnt follow opressive rules and regulations of an unjust government . Islam is complete and has no need to be a joint religion.faith..what ever word u choose to use in connection with something that was made by man. Allah doesnt need a man to make up some movement in order for faith to be complete.. islam is complete !!

Id like to ask..whats an islamist ? i havent come across this word in our Holy Quran before. Is it that your not muslim and you use the text of the people around you when talking of muslim.. no offence just trying to understand what path of enlightment your on in life.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings.

All i can say is... Communism and Marxism do not go along with Islam. A muslim doesnt follow opressive rules and regulations of an unjust government . Islam is complete and has no need to be a joint religion.faith..what ever word u choose to use in connection with something that was made by man. Allah doesnt need a man to make up some movement in order for faith to be complete.. islam is complete !!

Id like to ask..whats an islamist ? i havent come across this word in our Holy Quran before. Is it that your not muslim and you use the text of the people around you when talking of muslim.. no offence just trying to understand what path of enlightment your on in life.

The word "communism" is a relatively new term, but the ethics of it have been practiced for a long time. Islam is naturally socialist anyway since we are obligated to give even certain fractions of our inheritance when we die to the poor and also while alive give alms to the poor and other public funding.

One source of the corruption in Mecca during the 6th and 7th century was their selfish free market attitude and denial of a welfare system for the poor. What Muhammad (pbuh) preached was that those who have more are obligated to give to those who have less of what they themselves value. Other prophets before him taught the same thing. Honestly, when you look at the political laws of Muslim society as dictated by the religion of Islam, it's very socialist in its essence. Karl Marx even stated that communism and socialism (they are related but not the same thing) existed in the world before, particularly in tribal society. The political history of Arabia, in my opinion, can very much be divided into long periods of tribal communism and/or socialism. All industrial era political thinkers did was give the label of "communist" and "socialist" to the political landscape of such civilizations and sought to adapt them to modern industrial times.

Edited by Saintly_Jinn23

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alhamdulillah Islam to me is the complete and utter way of life. No other can take its place.

Man's words dont over rules Allah's rules in my life .. so what man thinks of all that has been created that doesnt go by the rules of Allah swt.. then im not really interested.. men/women/thinkers who preach have alot of comments to answer for. Its wise as a muslim to adhere and obey Allah solely than pick and mix what one does and doesnt want to believe thinking they know better. Man is in loss.. Allah is Not in loss of anything. SubhanAllah.

Wa Allahu alim.

Edited by truthseeking

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The word "communism" is a relatively new term, but the ethics of it have been practiced for a long time. Islam is naturally socialist anyway since we are obligated to give even certain fractions of our inheritance when we die to the poor and also while alive give alms to the poor and other public funding.

One source of the corruption in Mecca during the 6th and 7th century was their selfish free market attitude and denial of a welfare system for the poor. What Muhammad (pbuh) preached was that those who have more are obligated to give to those who have less of what they themselves value. Other prophets before him taught the same thing. Honestly, when you look at the political laws of Muslim society as dictated by the religion of Islam, it's very socialist in its essence. Karl Marx even stated that communism and socialism (they are related but not the same thing) existed in the world before, particularly in tribal society. The political history of Arabia, in my opinion, can very much be divided into long periods of tribal communism and/or socialism. All industrial era political thinkers did was give the label of "communist" and "socialist" to the political landscape of such civilizations and sought to adapt them to modern industrial times.

In any case, this history misunderstands the nature of 'socialism' as the term was understood until the 1990's. Socialism as it was originally defined did not mean alms or a poor tax or some other method of giving a living to those truly unable to support themselves. Every society I can think of did this, even if only at the level of the extended family (such as the tribes you mention) From Roman client-patron systems to Medieval tithes/alms to the poor taxes and parish rates of the early modern period to the poor houses later on, every society has done this to one degree or the other. 'Socialism' originally meant that the means of production would be owned by the workers as represented by the government. That's why you have nationalizations and the collective farms where peasants were forced to give all their land, tools and livestock to the state and move onto government owned mega-farms. Communism was a system that said that the property owners would never voluntarily give up their factories, livestock, tools and so on, so the only way to get it was to kill them off in a violent revolution. That is why you have the kulaks and such being wiped out. If you want to raise chickens in your backyard, you are owning the means of production and thus sabotaging the workers paradise. Shoot him. Communism goes on to describe a rather theoretical utopia that comes about after the revolution, which includes the end of religion, which Marx saw as merely a tool of the property owners to keep the property-less from revolution. Quite honestly, I don't think that such a system is compatible with Islamic economics or theology. Charity and alms are required, but Islamic economics typically allow people to own the means of production like livestock, factories and farm tools unless I am mistaken. It is this common ownership of the means of production, not simply consideration for the poor, that is the core of socialism as it was traditionally understood.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 @baradar_jackson   Your rundown of Islam in the Soviet Union and its relationship with the various Soviet governments   is mostly correct except for the part about Lenin  Vladimir   Lenin was willing to allow for a long term coexistence between his government and Islam he was close friends with the then  Emir  of Afghanistan  Amanullah Khan and Amanullah  he was a ruler who had Pan Islamic political   leanings and Lenin was fine with that plus Lenin allowed sharia law and courts in the Muslim majority  areas  and regions  within  the early Soviet state  during his time as  the leader of the Soviet Union  and in addition Lenin  permitted     The great Muslim National communist Sultan Galiev to promote Islamic  national communism  within the ranks of the Bolshevik   party and early  Soviet State and speaking of Sultan Galiev   every Muslim with Socialist and Communist beliefs should  take a look at and study the teachings and writings of Comrade Sultan Galiev  the teachings and beliefs of comrade Sultan Galiev on Islamic Communism were and are absolutely  correct and on point and it is something that the Islamic world of our time really needs

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...