Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
yafatimaalzahra

The Irani Government

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Due to constant constant urges from my family I would like to learn more about Iran and it's general political view. I personally dislike Iran because I personally disagree with Sayid Khamenei and about 99.99% of the Irani's I've met were bitter and antagonising. I know, I shouldn't stereotype a whole country due to what I've witnessed from a few but the little things I know make me personally dislike it. I know there are some very kind, spiritual and amazing persians but the majority (or so I believe) aren't very nice. Anyways, if that's the case I can simply dislike the "mean" people but so far I have no reason to dislike the government, and rather than being called ignorant I'd like to find out what the government values and what their laws and beliefs are. In a nutshell.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

You are right,its not good to steriotype a whole nation, there is good and bad everywhere and in everyone. I personally have met some very nice sinceer iranians,but I have also met some not sinceer ones(you can usually tell as they put a bucket of gel in their hair,another bucket of not very pleasant smelling perfume on and their shirts open and lots of jewlery even gold)

With reguards to your question, I don't have the answers,as I have not been to iran, and like you must juggle the pro Iranian propaganda with the anti Iranian propaganda.

But I would also say,this isn't the best place to find your answer as to most shia,the relationship with iran, is like the one the jews have towards israel, its not bassed on logic, and if you criticise,they turn against you and accuse you of all sorts.the same applies to sayed khamenei, you could sing his praises all day,but if you dare to question anything he does.... see the reaction you get. My advice to you would be to firstly find an actual iranian,they are much more realistic about their country than the people I just described,who more often that not,are not iranian. Second a sister would probably explain it in a more calm rational manner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Iranian state practices and policies are a different issue, but Iranian people are no different to the rest of humanity on the face of this earth. In any case, when analyzing Iran you have to stay relative to the region and also relative to other states who have been subject to western domination. Most certainly compared to the arab states that are present around it, the Iranian state policies since the revolution are brave in the sense that they have not let the world powers dictate things to them. That is a big no no, that in itself is the sole reason for western demonization of the country. It just serves as a model to other developing or third world states, a very dangerous model for the west to allow. Obviously there is a heck of a lot to criticize about the governments policies, exploitations, manipulation and other such practices which is a healthy thing to do. But if the Iranian state engages in immoral practices then such practices are just as profoundly evident and mostly more evident in every other state in the world.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's funny that your experience is that Iranians are mean - have you met Iranians from Iran or immigrants?

My experience is that Iranians are some of the nicest people in the world. They're very polite and courteous, they say excuse me all the time unlike their Arab neighbors. That being said you never know what they really think because they're always nice to you...

They have some beautiful customs, too, and art and architecture.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Due to constant constant urges from my family I would like to learn more about Iran and it's general political view. I personally dislike Iran because I personally disagree with Sayid Khamenei and about 99.99% of the Irani's I've met were bitter and antagonising. I know, I shouldn't stereotype a whole country due to what I've witnessed from a few but the little things I know make me personally dislike it. I know there are some very kind, spiritual and amazing persians but the majority (or so I believe) aren't very nice. Anyways, if that's the case I can simply dislike the "mean" people but so far I have no reason to dislike the government, and rather than being called ignorant I'd like to find out what the government values and what their laws and beliefs are. In a nutshell.

I clicked the link in your sig, and if its your account I can gather that you are Iraqi and living in Australia (if not please excuse me and correct me if I'm wrong).

I am Irani myself living in Aus, and theres a reason I dont have any other Irani friends. I can tell your experience of Irani's has been bad because of living in the west where I have found most of the Iranis to be just as you describe. It seems they are anti-Islamic Republic and in most cases anti-Islam. You can't base your view of a country on these people because while they might not be bad people themselves their views are very one-sided and most aren't open minded enough to consider anything different. I was even one of them at the beginning just because of ignorance but I came to love Imam Khomeini after I looked into his life. In this sense, I have been exposed to both sides.

To start, as another member said you have to make a difference between theory and practice. The constitution of the Islamic Republic as envisioned and created by Imam Khomeini I beleive is as close to perfect as we can get in the absense of Imam Mahdi (AJF). That being said, Iran was a lot better back then than it is today. There is corruption in some elements of the government like every other government in the world. I personally don't believe Seyyed Khamenei is involved in this and I support him greatly, but I do believe there are some around him that are not sincere in their dedication to Islam and the Revolution.

The Islamic Revolution in my eyes was one of the greatest victories for Islam in the modern age and as such I fully pledge my alliegence to its goals. I don't mean to compare Imam Khomeini and Khamenei to the Prophet (SAWW) and Imam ALI (as) but I look at it this way: When the Prophet was leading the Muslims, they were all united around his Holy figure and all striving to a common goal. When he died, Imam Ali replaced him as the Imam of the Muslims but there was a great fitna and struggle for power and people started planning and conspiring, and some corrupt people affected the way Imam Ali ruled the Ummah (as seen in his war against Muawiya and other events of that time). In the same way, when Imam Khomeini came, people were united around him and struggled for a single goal. Once he died, Khamenei replaced him (the way the Prophet appointed Imam Ali), but the people around him were conspiring and plotting and Khamenei has had to make some difficult decisions. LOL again I'm not comparing the figures but there are some parralels when looking at the story.

SO I personally support Imam Khomeini and Khamenei greatly and I am loyal to the foundations of the Islamic Revolution and Wilayatul Faqih. I suggest you look into these personalities and into the revolution to see what its aims were. That being said, I can recognise that leaders are not infallible and there are elements of corruption which go against the principles of the revolution. Unfortunately, these days most Iranians in the west are very close minded and simple-minded that they don't understand the value of the Revolution.

Sorry for writing heaps but I have heaps to say and can't get it all out LOL. If you have any specific questions i'll do my best to answer but its too broad a topic to talk about briefly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApMSmByS86c

Edited by Ibn Abdullah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Due to constant constant urges from my family I would like to learn more about Iran and it's general political view. I personally dislike Iran because I personally disagree with Sayid Khamenei and about 99.99% of the Irani's I've met were bitter and antagonising. I know, I shouldn't stereotype a whole country due to what I've witnessed from a few but the little things I know make me personally dislike it. I know there are some very kind, spiritual and amazing persians but the majority (or so I believe) aren't very nice. Anyways, if that's the case I can simply dislike the "mean" people but so far I have no reason to dislike the government, and rather than being called ignorant I'd like to find out what the government values and what their laws and beliefs are. In a nutshell.

I am Iranian and I disagree with Khamenei and the whole government, although they have many great aspects ( will elaborate if you want to know what). About Iranian people, well what can I say, there's nice Iranians and 'bitter' Iranians as you would like to call them. If I were you, I would get away from them LOL. Personally, I don't really have any Iranian friends and there's a reason for that...In my opinion, I've stated many times on this site, Khamenei has the blood of innocent people on his hands. Islam should give life to people-not take it away.They call themselves an 'Islamic government' when in theory they're not. Some aspects of the Sharia can't be implemented properly until the Imam of our time comes but they don't seem to get that. For example if someone commits adultry you need four mature witnesses, you need to see the state of mind of that person etc. In Iran there have been many false executions. I'm not saying this only happens in Iran. Rape in prison is very common. Look at what they did to the Shirazi family and how they abused them! They silence people who speak out against them etc.Also, during Imam Ali(as) khilafah there was not a single person left hungry in Kufa so if someone did steal food, the shariah could be implemented but if this were to happen to Iran it couldn't. Anyways,the people of Iran are so westernised because the hijab was suddenly imposed on them- by force which made them small-minded thinking that everything and anything can happen in the west. We all know the true Islamic government will be in our Imams time. Oh, there's a LOT of povery in Iran. Where has all the money gone... I wonder. Khalkhali , a so called sheikh, used to execute innocent people and declare them being shaheed. My mum used to always hear this in the radio. He was known as the cat at killer. LONG story. Some of the people executed were all part of the MKO( Mujahedin- the ones who betrayed Iranians during Iran & Iraq war and sided with them) If there's something wrong with the people then there's something wrong with the ones in control. Some of the baseej use Islam as a way to kill and torture people.

The 'greenies' are Mousavi followers with include Rafsanjani, Khatami, Mehdi Karroubi whom I dislike. The rest are with Khamenei and Ahmadinejad(current president). All khameneis speech's consist of is ' death to america, death to Israel'. He never once speaks about Iran! Iran are in the denial stage and like pointing fingers to everyone but for once they should look at themselves. People wonder why Islamic countries don't progress as much, they blame Islam but in fact it's the people. Many of the things are off course propoganda, but a lot of things bear truth in it. Iranian news i.e Jam-e-Jam, Press TV are extremely biased, just like Fox News. They only show one side of the story , seriously. Anyways, that's all I've got to say - for now. I'll be back!!! Sorry for the long post :D

Just thought I'd add that just because someone wears a turban over their head it doesn't mean we should follow them blindly like sheeps. Even our Prophet said ' Woe unto my nation from deviating leaders...' If people during the Prophets time betrayed him and deceived people with their nice words let alone a 1000 years later. Just something to ponder over...

Edited by Hawraa29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To start, as another member said you have to make a difference between theory and practice. The constitution of the Islamic Republic as envisioned and created by Imam Khomeini I beleive is as close to perfect as we can get in the absense of Imam Mahdi (AJF). That being said, Iran was a lot better back then than it is today. There is corruption in some elements of the government like every other government in the world. I personally don't believe Seyyed Khamenei is involved in this and I support him greatly, but I do believe there are some around him that are not sincere in their dedication to Islam and the Revolution.

The ideals may have seemed perfect and it probably could be, but it looks like they have strayed far from that. The book Animal Farm by George Orwell ( was not about a theocratic government ), but anyhow, human greed, corruption, a desire to cling to power nearly always ends in a bad drift away from the Utopian society that was envisaged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, thank you all for taking the time to reply. Already I feel less biased. Sorry for the Iranian bretheren on this site, I clearly did not mean to offend the good ones. And yes, I totally agree that there are good and bad everywhere. And even those who I see as "bitter" and "bad", I know they have a beautiful side to them, it's just not exposed to everyone.

Salam

You are right,its not good to steriotype a whole nation, there is good and bad everywhere and in everyone. I personally have met some very nice sinceer iranians,but I have also met some not sinceer ones(you can usually tell as they put a bucket of gel in their hair,another bucket of not very pleasant smelling perfume on and their shirts open and lots of jewlery even gold)

With reguards to your question, I don't have the answers,as I have not been to iran, and like you must juggle the pro Iranian propaganda with the anti Iranian propaganda.

But I would also say,this isn't the best place to find your answer as to most shia,the relationship with iran, is like the one the jews have towards israel, its not bassed on logic, and if you criticise,they turn against you and accuse you of all sorts.the same applies to sayed khamenei, you could sing his praises all day,but if you dare to question anything he does.... see the reaction you get. My advice to you would be to firstly find an actual iranian,they are much more realistic about their country than the people I just described,who more often that not,are not iranian. Second a sister would probably explain it in a more calm rational manner

Thank you for your response brother. I agree, I was actually hoping sister Maryam would reply as I really enjoy her posts and I'm sure she would explain everything well :).

The Iranian state practices and policies are a different issue, but Iranian people are no different to the rest of humanity on the face of this earth. In any case, when analyzing Iran you have to stay relative to the region and also relative to other states who have been subject to western domination. Most certainly compared to the arab states that are present around it, the Iranian state policies since the revolution are brave in the sense that they have not let the world powers dictate things to them. That is a big no no, that in itself is the sole reason for western demonization of the country. It just serves as a model to other developing or third world states, a very dangerous model for the west to allow. Obviously there is a heck of a lot to criticize about the governments policies, exploitations, manipulation and other such practices which is a healthy thing to do. But if the Iranian state engages in immoral practices then such practices are just as profoundly evident and mostly more evident in every other state in the world.

I whole-heartedly agree, and quite honestly your post has cleared a few things I had in mind. Thank you.

It's funny that your experience is that Iranians are mean - have you met Iranians from Iran or immigrants?

My experience is that Iranians are some of the nicest people in the world. They're very polite and courteous, they say excuse me all the time unlike their Arab neighbors. That being said you never know what they really think because they're always nice to you...

They have some beautiful customs, too, and art and architecture.

I've been to Iran and have many many family living there.In fact I was BORN there. So yes, I have met Irani's IN Iran no just immigrants. I understand my opinion may be biased, but that's only because I really haven't been exposed to many "nice" Irani's. Remember, I am looking from an Iraqi point of view. Irani's don't really like us Iraqi's, which might be the reason they're so "bitter" to us.

And sister I'm not really asking to praise or belittle our Irani brothers/sisters I just want to know more about their customs and what they culturally believe in. Basically I want to come to terms with this inner "hatred" towards the entire nation. It's wrong and I know it.

I clicked the link in your sig, and if its your account I can gather that you are Iraqi and living in Australia (if not please excuse me and correct me if I'm wrong).

I am Irani myself living in Aus, and theres a reason I dont have any other Irani friends. I can tell your experience of Irani's has been bad because of living in the west where I have found most of the Iranis to be just as you describe. It seems they are anti-Islamic Republic and in most cases anti-Islam. You can't base your view of a country on these people because while they might not be bad people themselves their views are very one-sided and most aren't open minded enough to consider anything different. I was even one of them at the beginning just because of ignorance but I came to love Imam Khomeini after I looked into his life. In this sense, I have been exposed to both sides.

To start, as another member said you have to make a difference between theory and practice. The constitution of the Islamic Republic as envisioned and created by Imam Khomeini I beleive is as close to perfect as we can get in the absense of Imam Mahdi (AJF). That being said, Iran was a lot better back then than it is today. There is corruption in some elements of the government like every other government in the world. I personally don't believe Seyyed Khamenei is involved in this and I support him greatly, but I do believe there are some around him that are not sincere in their dedication to Islam and the Revolution.

The Islamic Revolution in my eyes was one of the greatest victories for Islam in the modern age and as such I fully pledge my alliegence to its goals. I don't mean to compare Imam Khomeini and Khamenei to the Prophet (SAWW) and Imam ALI (as) but I look at it this way: When the Prophet was leading the Muslims, they were all united around his Holy figure and all striving to a common goal. When he died, Imam Ali replaced him as the Imam of the Muslims but there was a great fitna and struggle for power and people started planning and conspiring, and some corrupt people affected the way Imam Ali ruled the Ummah (as seen in his war against Muawiya and other events of that time). In the same way, when Imam Khomeini came, people were united around him and struggled for a single goal. Once he died, Khamenei replaced him (the way the Prophet appointed Imam Ali), but the people around him were conspiring and plotting and Khamenei has had to make some difficult decisions. LOL again I'm not comparing the figures but there are some parralels when looking at the story.

SO I personally support Imam Khomeini and Khamenei greatly and I am loyal to the foundations of the Islamic Revolution and Wilayatul Faqih. I suggest you look into these personalities and into the revolution to see what its aims were. That being said, I can recognise that leaders are not infallible and there are elements of corruption which go against the principles of the revolution. Unfortunately, these days most Iranians in the west are very close minded and simple-minded that they don't understand the value of the Revolution.

Sorry for writing heaps but I have heaps to say and can't get it all out LOL. If you have any specific questions i'll do my best to answer but its too broad a topic to talk about briefly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApMSmByS86c

No actually I really really appreciate your long reply. Thank you, it's made me view Irani's in a very different way. My respect for them as a nation has slightly increased.

Firstly, when I said the Irani's I've met were mostly bitter I didn't mean only those in Australia. I meant those whom I've met throughout my short life, in Iran, Iraq, America and Australia.

Secondly, I am not against the Khomeini government I'm a supporter of Khomeini and I'm sure if he was alive today I would whole-heartedly respect his nation. However, I don't believe things are the same as they were during his time. From what I've heard, he was a just and supreme leader. Also, my knowledge on the history of Iran and it's government is verry limited so my post may be quite biased, which again is why I have decided to post it on here, to learn a bit more.

Thirdly, from the video that you have showed me, I realise that Khamenei isn't a "bad" man. I know this, he mashAllah has great faith (according to his speech, it's impossible to know a persons true intention) however I disagree with a few of his shari'a laws. In my eyes, he's just another Fadlullah (not trying to offend any of their supporters, just stating I disagree with their beliefs - I'm alllowed to do that right?? :S)

And lastly, the actual reasons that I believe led me to disliking Iran in general and being biased in my view are:

1. Iranis absolutely loathe Iraqi's (or so most do, government officials and such). Examples: Iraqi's born in Iran do not get an Irani citizenship (I myself one of those people), Iraqi's do not have a right to go to university (unless they pay a hefty amount). My cousin was actually ranked as #313 in the nation, which apparantly is quite high. She wanted to go to a University in Tehran, yet her high marks were not enough to get her accepted. She did not have a citizenship, she was not accepted. She now remains at home, praying for a miracle. Another example, young Iraqi children are tormented in Iran. Racism is widely spread, from adults to children. My own little cousins get bullied for being "arabo". My family are constantly mistreated because they are "arabo". What is so wrong with "arabo" I wonder. Basically Iraqi's are verrry badly treated in Iran. If you don't believe me go ask a random Iraqi family living there without citizenship.

2. Patriotism and stubbornness has overcome me. When you go to Iraq you realize that half the people in the hadhra are Iranis (that itself of course is not an issue). The issue however is that it seems as though Iran is trying to dominate Iraq. Persians walk the streets like they own them, they're filled with ugly pride for themselves. Iraqi officials follow the orders of Irani oficials, they basically have no say in anything. Now tell me, if someone was constantly calling your people "arabo" and mistreating them, as well as bullying them, then entering YOUR country acting like they own it (and you're basically the slaves that must abide to their orders) would you really like these people?

3. As I mentioned they've got a lot of pride. And by pride I don't mean "gheerah" I mean actual arrogance. From the places I have travelled, Iran is the only country that does not implement the "English" language in their airports. On my first trip to Iran, I arrived at the airport only to be "welcomed" in persian and spoken to in persian. Even after saying that I do not speak nor understand persian a gazillion times they replied to me in persian, although they very well knew English and presumably Arabic. This not only happens in Iran and in the airport but it happens with a lot of the Irani's I see everywhere. Like one example is here, an old woman I happen to know is married to an Iraqi, can speak/understand both Arabic and English yet when she speaks to others she only speaks persian. I constantly say "khala I do not understand persian" yet she repeats it again and again in the same language. It's as if I'm gonna understand her when she continues to repeat? :squeez: Their pride is probably what makes me dislike them the most. And by they I'm not referring to ALL Irani's just the vast majority or just those that I have come across.

4. Towards us, Iraqi's, they are bitter and "evil". Towards their own kind, and even towards westerners, they are sweet and kind people. Why? We are not their enemies. I understand that the tables can be turned and Iraqi's can also be said to be "mean" to Irani's...etc. But, the way I see it is, had they not treated the Iraqi refugee's so horribly then the Iraqi's would have not hated them so much. Most of the shi3a Iraqi's during the Iran-Iraq war were actually on Irans side (my family included). But Iran took out its hatred of saddam and the ba'ath on the innocent shias that were actually running away from such political figures.

5. There's an unspoken fued between Irani's and Iraqi's. However this fued started is insignificant, but the solution to it is highly regarded. I myself am probably so biased towards Iranis due to my nationality. I may hate them due to what I see my people suffering, and saying. It affects many, and it's not very nice. I think we (Iranis and Iraqi's) should solve this dispute amongst each other. One way however, is to gain back our dignity (Iraq). Most Iraqis kiss Irans butt. It's sad. And then there's the few who married and had kids in Iran and suddenly started to name themselves Irani when it's obvious Iran doesn't want them. Iran is anti-multiculturism. It's a racist country and quite a selfish one too, from what I've experienced. Call me biased, but you cannot deny the truth.

Thank you for your post brother, I will definitely make sure to look into Syed Khamenei's views.

I am Iranian and I disagree with Khamenei and the whole government, although they have many great aspects ( will elaborate if you want to know what). About Iranian people, well what can I say, there's nice Iranians and 'bitter' Iranians as you would like to call them. If I were you, I would get away from them LOL. Personally, I don't really have any Iranian friends and there's a reason for that...In my opinion, I've stated many times on this site, Khamenei has the blood of innocent people on his hands. Islam should give life to people-not take it away.They call themselves an 'Islamic government' when in theory they're not. Some aspects of the Sharia can't be implemented properly until the Imam of our time comes but they don't seem to get that. For example if someone commits adultry you need four mature witnesses, you need to see the state of mind of that person etc. In Iran there have been many false executions. I'm not saying this only happens in Iran. Rape in prison is very common. Look at what they did to the Shirazi family and how they abused them! They silence people who speak out against them etc.Also, during Imam Ali(as) khilafah there was not a single person left hungry in Kufa so if someone did steal food, the shariah could be implemented but if this were to happen to Iran it couldn't. Anyways,the people of Iran are so westernised because the hijab was suddenly imposed on them- by force which made them small-minded thinking that everything and anything can happen in the west. We all know the true Islamic government will be in our Imams time. Oh, there's a LOT of povery in Iran. Where has all the money gone... I wonder. Khalkhali , a so called sheikh, used to execute innocent people and declare them being shaheed. My mum used to always hear this in the radio. He was known as the cat at killer. LONG story. Some of the people executed were all part of the MKO( Mujahedin- the ones who betrayed Iranians during Iran & Iraq war and sided with them) If there's something wrong with the people then there's something wrong with the ones in control. Some of the baseej use Islam as a way to kill and torture people.

The 'greenies' are Mousavi followers with include Rafsanjani, Khatami, Mehdi Karroubi whom I dislike. The rest are with Khamenei and Ahmadinejad(current president). All khameneis speech's consist of is ' death to america, death to Israel'. He never once speaks about Iran! Iran are in the denial stage and like pointing fingers to everyone but for once they should look at themselves. People wonder why Islamic countries don't progress as much, they blame Islam but in fact it's the people. Many of the things are off course propoganda, but a lot of things bear truth in it. Iranian news i.e Jam-e-Jam, Press TV are extremely biased, just like Fox News. They only show one side of the story , seriously. Anyways, that's all I've got to say - for now. I'll be back!!! Sorry for the long post :D

Just thought I'd add that just because someone wears a turban over their head it doesn't mean we should follow them blindly like sheeps. Even our Prophet said ' Woe unto my nation from deviating leaders...' If people during the Prophets time betrayed him and deceived people with their nice words let alone a 1000 years later. Just something to ponder over...

Yes sister I agree with you on many points, especially the last statement you made. "just because someone wears a turban over their head it doesn't mean we should follow them blindly like sheeps" - this I totally agree with. Walk the streets of Qom and you'll see almost every 1 in 2 men wear a turban. I find it difficult to believe that they are all righteous and noble people. I have experience with men who wear turbans. Almost all of my uncles are "shaikhs" and that statement fits most shaikhs or syeds very well. Half of the men who wear turban either 1) have never studied in hawza and hardly know what they are talking about, 2) entered hawza for a few months and decided they were qualified enough to teach about our faith when they also have no idea what they are talking about, or 3) studied for years (or perhaps even only a few months - yet are mature and logical) and are actually qualified to teach about Islam.

Also sister, you asked if I would like you to elaborate.. Well yes, if that wouldn't be a problem for you. So far I have realised my biased opinion on Iranis and I realise that there are many faithful Irani's out there. Your input has actually sort of slighly decreased my biased-ness, if that makes sense. I have never been exposed to your (as in Irani's) opinions, and I appreciate it a lot. Thank you very much sister.

Edited by yafatimaalzahra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay if you're Iraqi then that explains why they aren't nice to you.

I think they're not yet over Saddam's war... which is kinda sad when you realize that Shia Iraqis should be their brothers...

Sorry I'm just an ignorant American. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes sister I agree with you on many points, especially the last statement you made. "just because someone wears a turban over their head it doesn't mean we should follow them blindly like sheeps" - this I totally agree with. Walk the streets of Qom and you'll see almost every 1 in 2 men wear a turban. I find it difficult to believe that they are all righteous and noble people. I have experience with men who wear turbans. Almost all of my uncles are "shaikhs" and that statement fits most shaikhs or syeds very well. Half of the men who wear turban either 1) have never studied in hawza and hardly know what they are talking about, 2) entered hawza for a few months and decided they were qualified enough to teach about our faith when they also have no idea what they are talking about, or 3) studied for years (or perhaps even only a few months - yet are mature and logical) and are actually qualified to teach about Islam.

Also sister, you asked if I would like you to elaborate.. Well yes, if that wouldn't be a problem for you. So far I have realised my biased opinion on Iranis and I realise that there are many faithful Irani's out there. Your input has actually sort of slighly decreased my biased-ness, if that makes sense. I have never been exposed to your (as in Irani's) opinions, and I appreciate it a lot. Thank you very much sister.

Sister, I read that you wrote how Iraqis don't get the citizenship. Hear my story. My mother is Iranian, my father is originally Iranian but was not born there. His parents didn't get him the Iranian passport. For 10 years my parents tried to get me and my sister the citizenship- 10 YEARS. The lawyers said with money anything is possible in Iran. They turned out to be crooks. So yeah I sympathise with you. My friend was born in Iran, lived their for 6 years, her father was a non Iranian and she didn't get the pass. They said she had to wait until she turned 18. That's not fair cause I was told if I lived in Iran for 5 years I could get the pass. It's absolute discrimination. Cyrus the Great, our old king said ' Whoever that's mother in Irani, they are also Irani'. His sayings are even in some place in America. Now, I can't get a house in Iran, nor can I inherit anything, seriously. I'm practically a foreigner. I don't even feel Iranian anyways LOL. The visa for Iran is sooo expensive!! The embassy take it into consideration if your mother is Iranian. I can only get it IF I marry an Iranian :squeez:. Foreigners that marry Iranians get the pass and I CAN'T.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. When I say positive aspects I mean that we're a Shia Country. Even though I despise the Government their foreign affairs such as standing up for our country IS good, good scientific developments. Umm... I can't think of anymore, but I KNOW there's more LOL. When you say Iranians hate Iraqis some Iraqis feel the same way towards us... there's many half Iranian,half Iraqi people I know. In some cities in Iraq many people have Iranian descent. We call them Moavedin- most of the Karbalaeis. My family hang out with them. They're really wonderful. I know some pure Iraqis that have a lot of Ta'asob, I dunno what that is in English but when they marry Iranians they make them learn Arabic, a good thing BUT don't allow them to teach their kids to learn Irani. I've witnessed a lot of this. Don't get offended LOL.

Edited by Hawraa29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salaam Aleykum.

Just to point out one thing.

The racist, nationalist, patriotic, persian supremist Iranians are very often the same ones who are the enemies of the Wilayat al Faqih. On the contrary, the supporters of the revolution are very pro-hezbollah and pro-palestine, with leaders like Hassan Nasrallah very popular among them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry sister (yafatimaalzahra) I was just wondering, you've bassed your opinion on you personal experiences vis á vis iran, but your family have also shared in these experiences but seem ok with it, so its obvious they haven't tried to brainwash you,how has it happened that you and you family have different views? Are you alone or do your siblings share your views?

Ws

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The followers of Khamenei usually chant ' death to the people against the Wali-e-fagih (Khamenei). They think in order to be Shia you have to follow him! Also, the thing you said about Fadlallah, I totally agree. Khamenei and Fadlallah are friends which makes me stronger in my beliefs about them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Shiasoldier above said, pretty much sums up my entire opinion on Iranian people in the nation or abroad. There really to be honest with you, is no middle grounds. You are either on one side of the spectrum or the other. He pretty much wrapped it up well, at least in my honest humble opinion. The few Marxists, liberals, western Iranians that do happen to support the IRI in the Western World (not too many i.e. Royanian, Omanni, etc.), are those that realize that Islam is the religion and system of the Iranian people, for that reason, despite being non-Muslim Iranians, still support Iran and its culture, religion, system, and most importantly people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay if you're Iraqi then that explains why they aren't nice to you.

I think they're not yet over Saddam's war... which is kinda sad when you realize that Shia Iraqis should be their brothers...

Sorry I'm just an ignorant American. ;)

Yeah I agree with you, both Iraqi's and Irani's aren't yet over the war. Many times, I still feel like we're at war. :squeez:

And sister don't instantly label yourself as ignorant, I wasn't really clear enough about my experiences before you replied.

Thanks for your input anyways :).

Sister, I read that you wrote how Iraqis don't get the citizenship. Hear my story. My mother is Iranian, my father is originally Iranian but was not born there. His parents didn't get him the Iranian passport. For 10 years my parents tried to get me and my sister the citizenship- 10 YEARS. The lawyers said with money anything is possible in Iran. They turned out to be crooks. So yeah I sympathise with you. My friend was born in Iran, lived their for 6 years, her father was a non Iranian and she didn't get the pass. They said she had to wait until she turned 18. That's not fair cause I was told if I lived in Iran for 5 years I could get the pass. It's absolute discrimination. Cyrus the Great, our old king said ' Whoever that's mother in Irani, they are also Irani'. His sayings are even in some place in America. Now, I can't get a house in Iran, nor can I inherit anything, seriously. I'm practically a foreigner. I don't even feel Iranian anyways LOL. The visa for Iran is sooo expensive!! The embassy take it into consideration if your mother is Iranian. I can only get it IF I marry an Iranian :squeez:. Foreigners that marry Iranians get the pass and I CAN'T.

Anyways, enough of my ranting. When I say positive aspects I mean that we're a Shia Country. Even though I despise the Government their foreign affairs such as standing up for our country IS good, good scientific developments. Umm... I can't think of anymore, but I KNOW there's more LOL. When you say Iranians hate Iraqis some Iraqis feel the same way towards us... there's many half Iranian,half Iraqi people I know. In some cities in Iraq many people have Iranian descent. We call them Moavedin- most of the Karbalaeis. My family hang out with them. They're really wonderful. I know some pure Iraqis that have a lot of Ta'asob, I dunno what that is in English but when they marry Iranians they make them learn Arabic, a good thing BUT don't allow them to teach their kids to learn Irani. I've witnessed a lot of this. Don't get offended LOL.

Sister I sympathise with you. Why are they so harsh with their passports, no offence but it's not like everyone is dying for it. And I agree with your positive aspects, I know Iran has more positive aspects too (like fighting Israel) but I guess I was just being pessimistic. Oh and yeah there are tons of Iraqi's who hate Irani's, and now that I've sort of understood a bit more about the people of Iran I wonder why. Like I know for a fact if you go to Iraq and say your from Iran (yet your still an Iraqi) you will be treated wayy differently. Like the shop keepers would sell things at a higher price and stuff. But all together I feel as though the Iraqi's suck up to Iranis and try to act shifty just for the money.

And the thing about the Iraqis marrying Iranis and forcing their children to learn only Arabic, yes I've witnessed that too. And I agree it's not very nice at all. So you see it's not just the Irani's that are bitter towards us, but I guess we're the same back. It's become like a fued. :wacko:

Salaam Aleykum.

Just to point out one thing.

The racist, nationalist, patriotic, persian supremist Iranians are very often the same ones who are the enemies of the Wilayat al Faqih. On the contrary, the supporters of the revolution are very pro-hezbollah and pro-palestine, with leaders like Hassan Nasrallah very popular among them.

With all due respect, in my honest and personal opinion, without any intention to offend any of my Muslim brothers/sisters, the two you mentioned hardly differ to one another.

Sorry sister (yafatimaalzahra) I was just wondering, you've bassed your opinion on you personal experiences vis á vis iran, but your family have also shared in these experiences but seem ok with it, so its obvious they haven't tried to brainwash you,how has it happened that you and you family have different views? Are you alone or do your siblings share your views?

Ws

My family lived for years in Iran and I guess have come to terms with the discrimination. And they're very open minded, they usually see the good in people. My uncle would tell me: what have you seen from Iran to dislike it so much. I have lived there for 20 years and I don't even dislike it that much. (and he's often discriminated agaisnt and he always mentions it). What you are doing is dhulm, there are some very religious people with beautiful aqeeda's.....etc

I, on the other hand, am very stubborn. I don't like being treated unequally. I generally dislike people with a lot of pride, and in a way it makes me have more pride, which I dislike. It may be a bit contradictory but I don't know how to explain it. What I believe in (or so used to before I created this topic) is: if you're rude to me, I'm rude to you. If you hate me, then why should I like you.. etc. But I know the Imam's (as) were different and I really do try to implement their actions. I know there are many stories about the rahma of our Imams (as) and how they would kindly treat even their enemies. And I know of stories like when a man threw a stone at Imam Ja'far As-Sadiq's (as) head and the Imam did not reply, instead he went to the masjid and prayed for Allah (swt) to forgive him. Such stories brake my heart and literally show me what a bad shi'i I am, however I'm trying to work on it. I'm glad I've created this topic it has taught me a lot, thank you all for your response.

Umm oh back to why my family and I have different views, well in a nutshell: I'm young, stupid and stubborn. My parents on the other hand are mature, wise and logical. I take offence quickly too sometimes, which is not good. So I guess that explains why I have differing views to them? I get offended when the Irani's I know act the way they do, and yes not all should be counted as the same I understand that veryy well.

No, my sibling doesn't share in this view. He's not the sort of person who really cares about such things. He sometimes even tells people he's Irani to tick me off lol. So I guess he's open minded too and I need to work on my stubborness :).

What Shiasoldier above said, pretty much sums up my entire opinion on Iranian people in the nation or abroad. There really to be honest with you, is no middle grounds. You are either on one side of the spectrum or the other. He pretty much wrapped it up well, at least in my honest humble opinion. The few Marxists, liberals, western Iranians that do happen to support the IRI in the Western World (not too many i.e. Royanian, Omanni, etc.), are those that realize that Islam is the religion and system of the Iranian people, for that reason, despite being non-Muslim Iranians, still support Iran and its culture, religion, system, and most importantly people.

I'm sure there's a middle ground where some are still shi'i, support the government and yet do not support Fadlullah...?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant the govt. Support for various clerics, is extremely diverse. If we were to take that into account, then each and every Muslim in Iran, would be different from one another :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No actually I really really appreciate your long reply. Thank you, it's made me view Irani's in a very different way. My respect for them as a nation has slightly increased.

Firstly, when I said the Irani's I've met were mostly bitter I didn't mean only those in Australia. I meant those whom I've met throughout my short life, in Iran, Iraq, America and Australia.

Secondly, I am not against the Khomeini government I'm a supporter of Khomeini and I'm sure if he was alive today I would whole-heartedly respect his nation. However, I don't believe things are the same as they were during his time. From what I've heard, he was a just and supreme leader. Also, my knowledge on the history of Iran and it's government is verry limited so my post may be quite biased, which again is why I have decided to post it on here, to learn a bit more.

Thirdly, from the video that you have showed me, I realise that Khamenei isn't a "bad" man. I know this, he mashAllah has great faith (according to his speech, it's impossible to know a persons true intention) however I disagree with a few of his shari'a laws. In my eyes, he's just another Fadlullah (not trying to offend any of their supporters, just stating I disagree with their beliefs - I'm alllowed to do that right?? :S)

And lastly, the actual reasons that I believe led me to disliking Iran in general and being biased in my view are:

1. Iranis absolutely loathe Iraqi's (or so most do, government officials and such). Examples: Iraqi's born in Iran do not get an Irani citizenship (I myself one of those people), Iraqi's do not have a right to go to university (unless they pay a hefty amount). My cousin was actually ranked as #313 in the nation, which apparantly is quite high. She wanted to go to a University in Tehran, yet her high marks were not enough to get her accepted. She did not have a citizenship, she was not accepted. She now remains at home, praying for a miracle. Another example, young Iraqi children are tormented in Iran. Racism is widely spread, from adults to children. My own little cousins get bullied for being "arabo". My family are constantly mistreated because they are "arabo". What is so wrong with "arabo" I wonder. Basically Iraqi's are verrry badly treated in Iran. If you don't believe me go ask a random Iraqi family living there without citizenship.

I understand your greivances completely. I travelled to Iran 5 years ago (my first time but Inshallah i'll go again) and when dealing with people you do find racism. I personally hate racism and I am disgusted by anyone who practices it (being Muslim/Middle Eastern especially in Australia i'm sure everyones copped it a few times LOL). I mentioned its funny that I don't have any Irani friends but I do actually have Iraqi ones, both ones born in Iraq and some in Iran. From what they've told me (as well as some other Iraqi-Iranis such as my hairdresser LOL) they personally havn't been subjected to racism and they love the time they spend in Iran. Of course I understand that not everyone is the same and if you have experienced it all I can say is that I am upset about it. I have seen racism in Iran, and it is widespread especially in the non-religious section of society (whereas in the religious section I have seen a love of Arab language, culture and people). Either way it is unnacceptable.

The Prophet (SAWW) and his pure progeny (as) were Arabs.

2. Patriotism and stubbornness has overcome me. When you go to Iraq you realize that half the people in the hadhra are Iranis (that itself of course is not an issue). The issue however is that it seems as though Iran is trying to dominate Iraq. Persians walk the streets like they own them, they're filled with ugly pride for themselves. Iraqi officials follow the orders of Irani oficials, they basically have no say in anything. Now tell me, if someone was constantly calling your people "arabo" and mistreating them, as well as bullying them, then entering YOUR country acting like they own it (and you're basically the slaves that must abide to their orders) would you really like these people?

I havn't been to Iraq yet but Inshallah one day I will. So that being said I can't really comment other than to say I am against patriotism in all forms. Patriotism is what leads to things such as Hitler's Nazi party and other racist idealogies that end in the massacre of anyone who isn't of your own race. It is fair enough to have a sense of belonging to a group of people but understanding that nothing makes you better than someone except your piety, and even in that case thinking your better than someone isnt right.

3. As I mentioned they've got a lot of pride. And by pride I don't mean "gheerah" I mean actual arrogance. From the places I have travelled, Iran is the only country that does not implement the "English" language in their airports. On my first trip to Iran, I arrived at the airport only to be "welcomed" in persian and spoken to in persian. Even after saying that I do not speak nor understand persian a gazillion times they replied to me in persian, although they very well knew English and presumably Arabic. This not only happens in Iran and in the airport but it happens with a lot of the Irani's I see everywhere. Like one example is here, an old woman I happen to know is married to an Iraqi, can speak/understand both Arabic and English yet when she speaks to others she only speaks persian. I constantly say "khala I do not understand persian" yet she repeats it again and again in the same language. It's as if I'm gonna understand her when she continues to repeat? :squeez: Their pride is probably what makes me dislike them the most. And by they I'm not referring to ALL Irani's just the vast majority or just those that I have come across.

I understand your point and I do get what you mean. You sorta have to see the context here though. Iran has been ruled by foreigners (English/USA/Russia) for the last 100 years, mainly english speaking ones. Our King was a tool of the USA and Britain. After the Revolution, the US imposed a war on us through Saddam and for 8 years we fought against basically the whole world. You had the Arabs all teaming up with Saddam and America to try to destroy Iran (even now you have these wahabi "sheikhs" talking about how Iran is the nation of Dajjal and killing Iranis/Shia will guarantee entry to paradise :S). Since the beginning of the revolution, we have also been under constant sanctions as well as attack by groups such as the MKO or Jundullah and other terrorist groups that are being funded by foreign governments. In this sense, this "pride" is a defensive action to secure ourselves. I myself don't practice such things and I am not supporting or justifying it, but I'm just saying that it is a natural defensive reaction to years of torment and attack.

Some of this does come from a superiority complex I have witnessed in many Persians (as in "Persia" is the greatest civilization, founder of the world, blah blah all exagerated stuff). But We have been under a lot of pressure and this is a survival mechanism. I don't agree with it and as a reactionary mechanism I myself have come to view my own history with some form of distance. usually those who are so proud of themselves, and of pre-Islamic persia and how great they were, are the same people who are against the Islamic Revolution and are enemies of Khamenei and Khomeini. They use "Persia" as a tool to fight against Islam which unfrotunately has made me ashamed of some of my own people and past. In the side of nationalism vs religion I am always on the side of Islam as are most Iranians living in Iran. As Imam Khomeini himself said, ''We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world''.

4. Towards us, Iraqi's, they are bitter and "evil". Towards their own kind, and even towards westerners, they are sweet and kind people. Why? We are not their enemies. I understand that the tables can be turned and Iraqi's can also be said to be "mean" to Irani's...etc. But, the way I see it is, had they not treated the Iraqi refugee's so horribly then the Iraqi's would have not hated them so much. Most of the shi3a Iraqi's during the Iran-Iraq war were actually on Irans side (my family included). But Iran took out its hatred of saddam and the ba'ath on the innocent shias that were actually running away from such political figures.

Imam Khomeini in a famous speech to the Iraqi people called them our brothers and said our problem is with Saddam. He said the Iraqi people are followers of Islam and must rise against Saddam the way Iran rose against Muhammad Reza. True followers of Khomeini will never be "evil" towards Iraqis because the Imam himself called Iraqis "our brothers".

heres the link if you can be bothered watching it LOL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6JVPMqteew&videos=nvIiBBlQ9JA

From my experience, sunni Iraqis HATE Iran with a passion, perhaps this is why the resentment has boiled over. It does go back to the war mentality, but as you said most Iraqi shi3a supported Iran and religious Iranis I have met love shi3a Iraqis as well, and love the land of Iraq due to it being the holiest place on earth. Of course non-religious Iranis do hold resentment but you must understand these are not the followers of islam nor are they the supporters of Khomeini or Khamenei. As for the Khomeini vs Khamenei debate. Khamenei is Khomeini. Khomeini is Khamenei. I beleive nobody can reach the level Imam Khomeini was on , but Khamenei is Khomeini's designated successor. Khomeini himself spoke highly of Khamenei on many instances, and when Khomeini passed away Khamenei was reluctant to enter his position (which shows he wasn't some power hungry leader as some people claim). It is like this, that Khomeini himself supported Khamenei.

These days, if you support Hezbollah (which the vast majority of Shi3a do alhamdulilah), you are sort of obliged to support Khamenei. Seyyed Nasrallah himself has many times called Khamenei "Seyyed Al-Qaid" or "Imam Al-Qaid" and Hezbollah holds Khamenei to be "Wali Amr Al-Muslimeen". The beloved Martyr Seyyed Abbas al-Musawi held the same view of Khomeini and Khamenei. Wilayatul Faqih and Hezbollah are one and the same. Even our dear and beloved Martyr Seyyed Baqir Al-Sadr held these views regarding the Islamic Revolution and Imam Khomeini, as does our dear and beloved Imam Musa Sadr. Who are we to attack any scholar when there are so many great names that love and support eachother. Am I to say Khamenei is good enough for Seyyed Nasrallah but not for me? In the same sense is Imam Musa Sadr good enough for Imam Khomeini but doesn't quite fit the bill of what I'm looking for? We shouldn't be arrogant, its fair enough to disagree with a leaders views but we should respect them all the same. When Al-Mahdi (AJF) returns will I look to him and say I was more correct than Baqir al-Sadr? If I am counted as the same value as the shoes on Baqir al-Sadr's feet on the day of judgement than I would consider myself blessed. They are like a family and Inshallah they will all be among the leaders of the army of al-Mahdi (AJF)

5. There's an unspoken fued between Irani's and Iraqi's. However this fued started is insignificant, but the solution to it is highly regarded. I myself am probably so biased towards Iranis due to my nationality. I may hate them due to what I see my people suffering, and saying. It affects many, and it's not very nice. I think we (Iranis and Iraqi's) should solve this dispute amongst each other. One way however, is to gain back our dignity (Iraq). Most Iraqis kiss Irans butt. It's sad. And then there's the few who married and had kids in Iran and suddenly started to name themselves Irani when it's obvious Iran doesn't want them. Iran is anti-multiculturism. It's a racist country and quite a selfish one too, from what I've experienced. Call me biased, but you cannot deny the truth.

Thank you for your post brother, I will definitely make sure to look into Syed Khamenei's views.

I havn't experienced the things you are talking about so i cant comment 2 much on them. I guess i feel for you that youve seen so many bad things and I am dissapointed if these things have given you a negative view on Iran. I have never fueded with any of my Iraqi friends and we get a long better than I do with Iranis. It comes down to religion. For me Islam is the most important thing and it overrides all nationality, tribe, or other group associations. Look to people based on their religion. I am sure you get the same racist bigoted people in every country in the world, but when it comes to islam these things are put aside. I have never seen any proper follower of Khamenei who has uttered a racist word towards Iraqis (im not saying it doesnt happen, it might happen but either way it is not in the spirit of Islam). Again you've had different expereinces to me, but I never witness institutionalised racism when I was in Iran. If it does exist. it is disgusting and has nothing to do with the principles of the Islamic Revolution, but it a reflection of a few racist and evil people.

Again if you look at the constitution of the Islamic Republic, you can see in theory it is a great thing. In practice it may not have been as effective due to a section of corruption within the government, those seeking power and opportinities (such as the green movement, they are not humble and sincere in their greivances but are opportunists looking to shake things up and grab onto some power). I believe in Khamenei's wilayah in the absense of Imam Mahdi (AJF) because I believe he is a pure and sincere person. I do believe there are corrupt elements around him (as I said in an earlier post like there were corrupt and opportunist people around Imam Ali), but I believe he is free from that corruption and he is a true follower of Al-Mahdi (AJF).

And to reply to the sister talking about death to those against Wilayatul Faqih. These doesn't mean we wish death upon those who disagree with wilayatul faqih or those who dont have Khamenei as their marja. The point we are amking is death to those who oppose Wilayatul Faqih, in the sense that they fight against it. For us, wilayatul faqih is the red line and the system we have in place in the absense of the Mahdi. I uderstand not all shi3a support it, but we are aiming it at those who will fight against the system not simply disagree with it. These include people such as the munafiqeen, the kuffar, Saddam and the like, wahabis and others who openly fight against us and impose war upon us.

As for Khamenei and Fadlallah being friends? So what? You can be friends with someone who you disagree with. They had dramatically different views on many issues, what point are you trying to make? Nasrallah issued a statement after Fadlallahs passing as well stating his condolences and talking about how much of a great man Fadlallah was. Is this a bad thing?

P.S. LOL sorry again for my essay, i'm just trying to address the points you made. My spelling and grammar aren't perfect coz im trying to type really fast and type heaps of stuff so I hope it all makes sense :)

Edited by Ibn Abdullah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Sister I sympathise with you. Why are they so harsh with their passports, no offence but it's not like everyone is dying for it. And I agree with your positive aspects, I know Iran has more positive aspects too (like fighting Israel) but I guess I was just being pessimistic. Oh and yeah there are tons of Iraqi's who hate Irani's, and now that I've sort of understood a bit more about the people of Iran I wonder why. Like I know for a fact if you go to Iraq and say your from Iran (yet your still an Iraqi) you will be treated wayy differently. Like the shop keepers would sell things at a higher price and stuff. But all together I feel as though the Iraqi's suck up to Iranis and try to act shifty just for the money.

And the thing about the Iraqis marrying Iranis and forcing their children to learn only Arabic, yes I've witnessed that too. And I agree it's not very nice at all. So you see it's not just the Irani's that are bitter towards us, but I guess we're the same back. It's become like a fued.

Innit LOL.... trust me NOONE is dying for it. I guess they're so harsh becasue they don't want the pass to go in the wrong hands :wacko: You know it wasn't always like this. During the Shahs time it wasn't like this but I dunno when the system changed. So called human rights!!

And to reply to the sister talking about death to those against Wilayatul Faqih. These doesn't mean we wish death upon those who disagree with wilayatul faqih or those who dont have Khamenei as their marja. The point we are amking is death to those who oppose Wilayatul Faqih, in the sense that they fight against it. For us, wilayatul faqih is the red line and the system we have in place in the absense of the Mahdi. I uderstand not all shi3a support it, but we are aiming it at those who will fight against the system not simply disagree with it. These include people such as the munafiqeen, the kuffar, Saddam and the like, wahabis and others who openly fight against us and impose war upon us.

As for Khamenei and Fadlallah being friends? So what? You can be friends with someone who you disagree with. They had dramatically different views on many issues, what point are you trying to make? Nasrallah issued a statement after Fadlallahs passing as well stating his condolences and talking about how much of a great man Fadlallah was. Is this a bad thing?

Thanks for the clarification.... as for Khamenei and Fadlallah the point I'm trying to make is that, no offence to anyone, but they both deserve eachother.

Edited by Hawraa29

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I meant the govt. Support for various clerics, is extremely diverse. If we were to take that into account, then each and every Muslim in Iran, would be different from one another :).

Well then that makes sense :D

I understand your greivances completely. I travelled to Iran 5 years ago (my first time but Inshallah i'll go again) and when dealing with people you do find racism. I personally hate racism and I am disgusted by anyone who practices it (being Muslim/Middle Eastern especially in Australia i'm sure everyones copped it a few times LOL). I mentioned its funny that I don't have any Irani friends but I do actually have Iraqi ones, both ones born in Iraq and some in Iran. From what they've told me (as well as some other Iraqi-Iranis such as my hairdresser LOL) they personally havn't been subjected to racism and they love the time they spend in Iran. Of course I understand that not everyone is the same and if you have experienced it all I can say is that I am upset about it. I have seen racism in Iran, and it is widespread especially in the non-religious section of society (whereas in the religious section I have seen a love of Arab language, culture and people). Either way it is unnacceptable.

The Prophet (SAWW) and his pure progeny (as) were Arabs.

Yeah I know many Iraqi's who love Iran :). Either way I completely agree with you, racism is unacceptable but unfortunately it occurs throughout the world. To tell you the truth many Iraqi's are racist and I don't like it either.InshAllah I am not one of those people. Brother your post has really made me feel guilty for my ignorance. Thank yo so much for explaining all of these things, I really appreciate it. May Allah bless you.

I havn't been to Iraq yet but Inshallah one day I will. So that being said I can't really comment other than to say I am against patriotism in all forms. Patriotism is what leads to things such as Hitler's Nazi party and other racist idealogies that end in the massacre of anyone who isn't of your own race. It is fair enough to have a sense of belonging to a group of people but understanding that nothing makes you better than someone except your piety, and even in that case thinking your better than someone isnt right.

As for patriotism, I was referring to the following definition --> Patriotism is love and devotion to one's country or homeland. Had I not known all of the blessings of my country I probably wouldn't have been so devoted to it. That being said, I would never allow my patriotism get in the way of my religion and most definitely wouldn't consider myself better than others due to my nationality.

I understand your point and I do get what you mean. You sorta have to see the context here though. Iran has been ruled by foreigners (English/USA/Russia) for the last 100 years, mainly english speaking ones. Our King was a tool of the USA and Britain. After the Revolution, the US imposed a war on us through Saddam and for 8 years we fought against basically the whole world. You had the Arabs all teaming up with Saddam and America to try to destroy Iran (even now you have these wahabi "sheikhs" talking about how Iran is the nation of Dajjal and killing Iranis/Shia will guarantee entry to paradise :S). Since the beginning of the revolution, we have also been under constant sanctions as well as attack by groups such as the MKO or Jundullah and other terrorist groups that are being funded by foreign governments. In this sense, this "pride" is a defensive action to secure ourselves. I myself don't practice such things and I am not supporting or justifying it, but I'm just saying that it is a natural defensive reaction to years of torment and attack.

Some of this does come from a superiority complex I have witnessed in many Persians (as in "Persia" is the greatest civilization, founder of the world, blah blah all exagerated stuff). But We have been under a lot of pressure and this is a survival mechanism. I don't agree with it and as a reactionary mechanism I myself have come to view my own history with some form of distance. usually those who are so proud of themselves, and of pre-Islamic persia and how great they were, are the same people who are against the Islamic Revolution and are enemies of Khamenei and Khomeini. They use "Persia" as a tool to fight against Islam which unfrotunately has made me ashamed of some of my own people and past. In the side of nationalism vs religion I am always on the side of Islam as are most Iranians living in Iran. As Imam Khomeini himself said, ''We do not worship Iran, we worship Allah. For patriotism is another name for paganism. I say let this land [iran] burn. I say let this land go up in smoke, provided Islam emerges triumphant in the rest of the world''.

Brother, Iraq has been subject to almost the same amount of torment. We all know of the dua that Imam Hussain (as) made against the people of Iraq which is why (I believe) our people are being killed every day. Logically speaking, had pride been a "natural defense mechanism" then I'm sure we would have affected the Iraqi's as well. On the contrary, it does sound a quite logical and it may be an adaptation to secure themselves from any dangers. However, how could pride be a defensive reaction? Wouldn't they just be less trusting of others, and so on rather than believing that they are superior to the world?

As for the quote from Imam Khomeini, it's very humble. And I agree with it. Thank you for sharing.

Imam Khomeini in a famous speech to the Iraqi people called them our brothers and said our problem is with Saddam. He said the Iraqi people are followers of Islam and must rise against Saddam the way Iran rose against Muhammad Reza. True followers of Khomeini will never be "evil" towards Iraqis because the Imam himself called Iraqis "our brothers".

heres the link if you can be bothered watching it LOL:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6JVPMqteew&videos=nvIiBBlQ9JA

From my experience, sunni Iraqis HATE Iran with a passion, perhaps this is why the resentment has boiled over. It does go back to the war mentality, but as you said most Iraqi shi3a supported Iran and religious Iranis I have met love shi3a Iraqis as well, and love the land of Iraq due to it being the holiest place on earth. Of course non-religious Iranis do hold resentment but you must understand these are not the followers of islam nor are they the supporters of Khomeini or Khamenei. As for the Khomeini vs Khamenei debate. Khamenei is Khomeini. Khomeini is Khamenei. I beleive nobody can reach the level Imam Khomeini was on , but Khamenei is Khomeini's designated successor. Khomeini himself spoke highly of Khamenei on many instances, and when Khomeini passed away Khamenei was reluctant to enter his position (which shows he wasn't some power hungry leader as some people claim). It is like this, that Khomeini himself supported Khamenei.

These days, if you support Hezbollah (which the vast majority of Shi3a do alhamdulilah), you are sort of obliged to support Khamenei. Seyyed Nasrallah himself has many times called Khamenei "Seyyed Al-Qaid" or "Imam Al-Qaid" and Hezbollah holds Khamenei to be "Wali Amr Al-Muslimeen". The beloved Martyr Seyyed Abbas al-Musawi held the same view of Khomeini and Khamenei. Wilayatul Faqih and Hezbollah are one and the same. Even our dear and beloved Martyr Seyyed Baqir Al-Sadr held these views regarding the Islamic Revolution and Imam Khomeini, as does our dear and beloved Imam Musa Sadr. Who are we to attack any scholar when there are so many great names that love and support eachother. Am I to say Khamenei is good enough for Seyyed Nasrallah but not for me? In the same sense is Imam Musa Sadr good enough for Imam Khomeini but doesn't quite fit the bill of what I'm looking for? We shouldn't be arrogant, its fair enough to disagree with a leaders views but we should respect them all the same. When Al-Mahdi (AJF) returns will I look to him and say I was more correct than Baqir al-Sadr? If I am counted as the same value as the shoes on Baqir al-Sadr's feet on the day of judgement than I would consider myself blessed. They are like a family and Inshallah they will all be among the leaders of the army of al-Mahdi (AJF)

Yes I've heard this which is why I really respect Sayid Khomeini. And thank you for speaking about the religious Irani's, it's nice to know they're out there :).

And brother I did not mean to disrespect any scholar. In fact I have a lot of respect for all, except for those who ask us to respect the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) and who disregard the rights of Sayida Fatima Al-Zahra (as). Those I shall never respect, yet I wouldn't attack them. This is just my humble opinion.

I havn't experienced the things you are talking about so i cant comment 2 much on them. I guess i feel for you that youve seen so many bad things and I am dissapointed if these things have given you a negative view on Iran. I have never fueded with any of my Iraqi friends and we get a long better than I do with Iranis. It comes down to religion. For me Islam is the most important thing and it overrides all nationality, tribe, or other group associations. Look to people based on their religion. I am sure you get the same racist bigoted people in every country in the world, but when it comes to islam these things are put aside. I have never seen any proper follower of Khamenei who has uttered a racist word towards Iraqis (im not saying it doesnt happen, it might happen but either way it is not in the spirit of Islam). Again you've had different expereinces to me, but I never witness institutionalised racism when I was in Iran. If it does exist. it is disgusting and has nothing to do with the principles of the Islamic Revolution, but it a reflection of a few racist and evil people.

Again if you look at the constitution of the Islamic Republic, you can see in theory it is a great thing. In practice it may not have been as effective due to a section of corruption within the government, those seeking power and opportinities (such as the green movement, they are not humble and sincere in their greivances but are opportunists looking to shake things up and grab onto some power). I believe in Khamenei's wilayah in the absense of Imam Mahdi (AJF) because I believe he is a pure and sincere person. I do believe there are corrupt elements around him (as I said in an earlier post like there were corrupt and opportunist people around Imam Ali), but I believe he is free from that corruption and he is a true follower of Al-Mahdi (AJF).

P.S. LOL sorry again for my essay, i'm just trying to address the points you made. My spelling and grammar aren't perfect coz im trying to type really fast and type heaps of stuff so I hope it all makes sense :)

Again brother thank you for sharing everything and it really has changed my views on many things. I guess sometimes to come to terms with something you must discuss it :).

Iran itself shouldn't be blamed for the things it's people do, nobody is perfect.

May Allah hasten the appearance of Sahibul Zaman and resolve of the problems within our shi'a community.

Jazak Allah khair brother, your words have really affected me and may Allah bless you for this.

Thank you once more.

Innit LOL.... trust me NOONE is dying for it. I guess they're so harsh becasue they don't want the pass to go in the wrong hands :wacko: You know it wasn't always like this. During the Shahs time it wasn't like this but I dunno when the system changed. So called human rights!!

It's okay sister, a passport isn't really important :D. InshAllah one day we'll be able to travel the world without passports, just like during the time of the Prophet (pbuh) .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As for patriotism, I was referring to the following definition --> Patriotism is love and devotion to one's country or homeland. Had I not known all of the blessings of my country I probably wouldn't have been so devoted to it. That being said, I would never allow my patriotism get in the way of my religion and most definitely wouldn't consider myself better than others due to my nationality.

Brother, Iraq has been subject to almost the same amount of torment. We all know of the dua that Imam Hussain (as) made against the people of Iraq which is why (I believe) our people are being killed every day. Logically speaking, had pride been a "natural defense mechanism" then I'm sure we would have affected the Iraqi's as well. On the contrary, it does sound a quite logical and it may be an adaptation to secure themselves from any dangers. However, how could pride be a defensive reaction? Wouldn't they just be less trusting of others, and so on rather than believing that they are superior to the world?

Yes I've heard this which is why I really respect Sayid Khomeini. And thank you for speaking about the religious Irani's, it's nice to know they're out there :).

And brother I did not mean to disrespect any scholar. In fact I have a lot of respect for all, except for those who ask us to respect the enemies of Ahlulbayt (as) and who disregard the rights of Sayida Fatima Al-Zahra (as). Those I shall never respect, yet I wouldn't attack them. This is just my humble opinion.

Love of ones country is alright, I get what your saying. I love my country but my view on nations reflects the quote from Imam Khomeini. If I had to choose between an Irani non-Muslim and a Shi3a whether they be Iraqi, Chinese, French or Brazilian, Inshallah I would support my Shi3a brother or sister :) lol

As for torment, well I guess many nations in the Middle East have been subject to some form of affliction, be it war, poverty, opression or whatever (in most cases all of the above). That's why I guess you find nationalism rife in the ME (be it Persian, Arab or whatever). I still don't agree with it as it is a cause of division. As far as it being a defensive reaction, I guess what I meant to say is that for some Persians they see themselves as under attack from all directions. Mainly this pride comes from non-religious sections of Irani's (as we talked about) who have some sort of ill-founded nostalgia with pre-Islamic Iran, which I could care less about. For me, Iran is nothing without Islam. In fact the world is nothing without Islam. And Arab countries should be very thankful for Islam as without it they would still be like the times of jahiliyya. That's why I see Arab nationalism as a pretty useless movement.

And finally, I love it when non-Iranians show love and respect for Imam Khomeini. In fact I have seen some of the most love and admiration of the Imam coming from non-Iranian muslims :) It just goes to show the greatness of his figure and the universality of his movement. The same goes for figures such as Sayyid Baqir al-Sadr and Imam Musa al-Sadr, these great men knew that Islam is the victorious party and clinging to nationality ensures defeat. Also figures such as Sayyid Sistani, although I don't necessarily agree with his political stance, I love and respect him as one who has done a lot for Islam and is one of the greatest and most learned scholars today. That's why even today maaaany Irani scholars are born in Iraq and many Iraqi scholars are born in Iran. And for scholars , for example Fadlallah. He had some views that went against the mainstream view of the school of thought of Ahlul-Bayt and you don't have to agree with them or respect his views. Still, in his life he had done a lot of service for Islam, to a level that I personally cannot hope to achieve in my life. As such as a humble servant of Allah we should respect him and his service in the way of Allah, Muhammad (pbuh) and his Pure Progeny (as), and send our dua's for him and all deceased scholars who gave their lives for Islam.

Again brother thank you for sharing everything and it really has changed my views on many things. I guess sometimes to come to terms with something you must discuss it :).

Iran itself shouldn't be blamed for the things it's people do, nobody is perfect.

May Allah hasten the appearance of Sahibul Zaman and resolve of the problems within our shi'a community.

Jazak Allah khair brother, your words have really affected me and may Allah bless you for this.

Thank you once more.

Alhamdulillah I hope some of the stuff I said made sense to you and I appreciate you asking these questions in a respectful and sincere way. Unity is a very difficult thing to achieve with Muslims, but we as Shi3a should at least strive to be united within ourselves. I will keep you in my prayers and Inshallah you will do the same :P I hope I could help and if theres anything you need or any questions you have dont hesitate to ask (maybe you need someone else to come in with some input LOL). Sorry for all the depressing talk but unfortunately thats the reality of the situation. May Allah hasten the appearance of Al-Qaim, Al-Mahdi Al-Muntazir (as). We dearly miss him and need him now more than ever. Inshallah striving for unity within the ummah will hasten his appearance :)

Assalamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah wa Barakatuh

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From an outsider, such as me, I heard and read a lot of bad things about Iranian government. I've met a lot of Iranians here and not one said anything favorable about the government. The unequal treatment of ethnicities, not allowing Arabs to choose Arab names for their newborns and the continuous executions, rapes and assaults on innocents. I used to have a very favorable view about Iran in general, mostly because I am Shia. If all these things really happen, then it's not acceptable, for an Islamic state. Wa Allahu A'lam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From an outsider, such as me, I heard and read a lot of bad things about Iranian government. I've met a lot of Iranians here and not one said anything favorable about the government. The unequal treatment of ethnicities, not allowing Arabs to choose Arab names for their newborns and the continuous executions, rapes and assaults on innocents. I used to have a very favorable view about Iran in general, mostly because I am Shia. If all these things really happen, then it's not acceptable, for an Islamic state. Wa Allahu A'lam.

Are there Arab names that aren't the same Muslim names everyone else has?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From an outsider, such as me, I heard and read a lot of bad things about Iranian government. I've met a lot of Iranians here and not one said anything favorable about the government. The unequal treatment of ethnicities, not allowing Arabs to choose Arab names for their newborns and the continuous executions, rapes and assaults on innocents. I used to have a very favorable view about Iran in general, mostly because I am Shia. If all these things really happen, then it's not acceptable, for an Islamic state. Wa Allahu A'lam.

lol I can't believe some people!

How old are you? Few more things your Iranian friends forgot to tell you: Iranian government also goes around to pick up virgin girls from the streets and pregnant them; the government also bans water to public on Friday nights! Google them, you'll be surprised!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Due to constant constant urges from my family I would like to learn more about Iran and it's general political view. I personally dislike Iran because I personally disagree with Sayid Khamenei and about 99.99% of the Irani's I've met were bitter and antagonising. I know, I shouldn't stereotype a whole country due to what I've witnessed from a few but the little things I know make me personally dislike it. I know there are some very kind, spiritual and amazing persians but the majority (or so I believe) aren't very nice. Anyways, if that's the case I can simply dislike the "mean" people but so far I have no reason to dislike the government, and rather than being called ignorant I'd like to find out what the government values and what their laws and beliefs are. In a nutshell.

Dear sister:

You should like us, and you should like our government.

Ya Ali

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The audacity some people have. Unbelievable. I will tell you exactly what bothers me about exactly your type of "human". I have no idea how far your knowledge of your own history goes back, but I can guess what your linking capabilities are. Let me linearize the time line for you and wake you up from your one sided dream world:

* We have a revolution, we call for brotherhood and unity.

* We declare we're willing to resolve everything from the past so the above can be attained.

* The western workers who were in Iran, before they left, have sabotaged all our important military equipment.

* In the middle of the night on the 22nd of September, without declaration of war, we're attacked in a full scale war by the same people we wanted to have brotherhood with.

* Saddam declares that within days he will capture Tehran, and the whole Arabic speaking world is cheering him on.

* People from all across the Arabic speaking world are being flown in to volunteer fight against Iran.

* In the time when the dollar was worth more than ever, their pan-Arabist neighbors transfer more than a trillion dollars for the war against Iran.

* More than a million of our people die, thousands of women and children have been raped at the border areas (Incidentally many of their "Arabic sisters" were among those raped in khuzestan).

* Our people are gassed, and even today we have people in the hospitals and at home connected to all kinds of equipment to keep them from dieing from the pain.

IranChemical-attackRTX7ROA.jpg

* From the Iraqi POWs we capture, thousands would hold up so called images of masumeen (as) and yell crying "SHIA! SHIA!", WHILE just minutes before these same thugs were shooting at our people to kill them. Still, so much mercy was shown to them and they were treated so well, that after release thousands staid in Iran to live there, and they were allowed to do so. They have built up their lives and have good lives in Iran now.

* Still having endured so much, Iran is till this day blamed for every calamity that is befalling these same thugs that attacked us decades before. All kinds of conspiracies to all kinds jealousies about the most ridiculous things, such as, Yes the following is real --> "there are too many Iranians walking on Iraqi streets" and another real one --> "they walk on the street as if they own the places", and "they own all the factories" and "they're selling too cheap" <--- even selling cheap products is something you can be blamed for apparently, etc, etc.

* The Iranian infrastructure suffered nearly two trillion dollars in damages, and there are actually calls for not paying Iran back the damages suffered, YET multiple public shows of willing to repay Kuwait have been declared. What on earth? I think not!

The kufan way is still alive and well among your people. You will always follow the same path it seems.

The Iranians who show disgust for your kind, do it for the above reasons. Not because of some kind of made up race (NOTE: "Arab" is not a race. Just like "Jewish" is not a race, don't follow the Jewish path, people in Arabic speaking countries come from all kinds of racial backgrounds, and none of them is "Arab"). In the same way you will find that Turkish people have a very negative view of the Arabic speaking countries due to the treason they suffered during the Ottoman empire.

Anyway, none of the above matters. Fools will always be fools and the righteous will be victorious. That is the end of all things.

PS: You should fix the extreme racism that exists in Arabic speaking nations and their people before you start talking about other people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

lol I can't believe some people!

How old are you? Few more things your Iranian friends forgot to tell you: Iranian government also goes around to pick up virgin girls from the streets and pregnant them; the government also bans water to public on Friday nights! Google them, you'll be surprised!

I am 20. I've met a lot of Irani college students and professors. All say the same thing. Are they all lying? Also, take a look at this.

http://www.mutawassetonline.com/files/4099-3-.html

http://www.naseh.net/vb/showthread.php?t=28671

http://www.unpo.org/article/822

----

Also @Amran,

Who is talking about Saddam now? You think I support him? You think because I'm from Saudi Arabia, I support my country against the Shia? This is what I heard and read about Iran in the past 10 years, and last year's elections only seem to exacerbate the problem.

I did not say there was no racism in some of the Arab countries. But race really rarely matters there. It's the sect. Since this is about the Iranian government, I posted about my thoughts.

Also, there is an Arab race, yes, and there are the Arabic speaking people. Arabs are not just the ones who speak Arabic. What about the Arabs of Yemen and the rest of the Arabian peninsula? Were they Arabs only by their tongue?

Wa Allahu A'lam.

Edited by Arafat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am 20. I've met a lot of Irani college students and professors. All say the same thing. Are they all lying? Also, take a look at this.

No, God forbid, they are not lying. The only people on the planet who are not liars are those Iranian escapees.

Sorry, I don't have time to view the links/video clips posted by a few low lives Bahais and anti-Islamic bad mouthed kids on Youtube or weblogs.

My point was: Use your brain a little bit for God's sake. Anyone says anything because they had a personal bad experience and you believe that? No wonder Shia Arabs in Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen and Iraq will remain oppressed and fooled for thousands of years to come.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, God forbid, they are not lying. The only people on the planet who are not liars are those Iranian escapees.

Sorry, I don't have time to view the links/video clips posted by a few low lives Bahais and anti-Islamic bad mouthed kids on Youtube or weblogs.

My point was: Use your brain a little bit for God's sake. Anyone says anything because they had a personal bad experience and you believe that? No wonder Shia Arabs in Saudi, Bahrain, Yemen and Iraq will remain oppressed and fooled for thousands of years to come.

I bring you evidence by Shia and Muslims and you say that they're anti-Islam and such? Is anti-oppression anti-Islam?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:lol: Thats the dumbest thing I've heard for a while. Thanks for the entertainment anyway.

Interestingly enough, the Persian Pride Legion insists that the government used to not allow parents to choose old Iranian names (such as Dariush, Kourosh, etc.) for their children.

Now the "Pan-Arab" Brigade (in reality, the Iran-hating Gang) is trying to say that the government doesn't allow parents to choose Arabic names.

In response to each:

(1) There are people my age -- people born during the war (at the peak of our people's Islamic revolutionary zeal and anti-nationalist sentiment) -- who are named Kourosh, Dariush, Khashayar, etc...

(2) Most Iranians have Arabic names, because most Iranians are named after the Masoomeen (as).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...