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YaHu

[MERGED] Taqleed To A Mujtahed?

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(bismillah)

If you want to stay in this discussion, no disrespect in any shape or form, direct or indirect. If you have a question or objection to their words or acts you can discuss it with respect, no problem. But you will not be allowed to disrespect our scholars on this board. Period.

Sure, I will play by the rules if you do as well. From now on please be respectful to our scholars as well so that we may have a deep and meaningful discussion (with mutual respect).

[EDITED - We encourage members to be courteous to others, and treat fellow members the way they wish to be treated. Intelligent discourse and freedom of expression is encouraged, as long as it is exercised with responsibility. Insults made against other members on this board are not tolerated]

Thank you,

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Nocturne

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I will stop discussing with you. Not only that, I will ask moderators to discipline you. So be mindful next time.

[EDITED - We encourage members to be courteous to others, and treat fellow members the way they wish to be treated. Intelligent discourse and freedom of expression is encouraged, as long as it is exercised with responsibility. Insults made against other members on this board are not tolerated]

If thats the case, I want to be the first one to be martyred from this forum. Ya Ali Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! :angel:

Edited by Nocturne

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[EDITED] If thats the case, I want to be the first one to be martyred from this forum. Ya Ali Huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu! :angel:

No YaHu, we need you in this forum. You are much too valuable to be eliminated from this forum. Just do what Orion commanded and don't make any sudden posts (You will get him angery). We must practise Taqiyah and remain patient; that way we can help those orphans of our Ahl-eBait.

Imam Muhammad Taqi (as) said:

“ Anyone who will help the orphans of Ahlul Bayt (as) ( those which

are away from Imam (as)) and removes their ignorance which is due

to lack of knowledge and those of our shia who are prisoners in the

hands of shaitan and nasibis (enemies of Ahlul Bayt (as)) and

whoever releases those prisoners from their hands and removes their

religious ignorance and removes the shaitani thoughts and doubts

with the help of Allah and Ahlul Bayt (as) so that our shia could

remember their allegiance to Us regardless of the difficulties they will

face, the status of such a person who will do these things is like the

heavens upon the earth and those shia who have obtained this haq

(truth) their status is like the moon which shines upon the earth giving

light to everything."

The deciple Jabir said to Imam Mohammed Baqir (as) "‘Two Shias from Kufa were

arrested by the people belonging to ‘Banu Umayya’ and they asked them to

abuse Amir-ul-Momaneenasws. But one of them declined and was killed, the

other sent ‘Tabarra’ on Amir-ul-Momaneen and was spared’. Imam Al Baqir (as)

replied: " ‘The one who performed Tabarra was well versed in religion but the

other one made haste in going to ‘Jannah’ (Paradise)."

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Nocturne

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[EDITED]

Not all Sunnis are bad. Most are misinformed or misguided so we discuss with them with mutual respect in the hope that they may see the truth. Alhamdulillah, there are many who have seen the light and are members of this forum.

The Nasibis (Ahlul Bait haters) on the other hand, are another breed and we deal with them accordingly.

Edited by Nocturne

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Not all Sunnis are bad. Most are misinformed or misguided so we discuss with them with mutual respect in the hope that they may see the truth. Alhamdulillah, there are many who have seen the light and are members of this forum.

The Nasibis (Ahlul Bait haters) on the other hand, are another breed and we deal with them accordingly.

There is one thing you, I, sunnis, and the rest of this planets inhabitants believe in: and that is death.

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "We are all asleep, and when we die we awake." And then our Holy Prophet (pbuh) adds," Die (awake spiritually to the truth now) before your inevitable physical death (when you are forced to wake up) ." In a way this Donya is a Big Dream. Everyone will return back from where they came. No one will be able to change anyones opinion until first they are able to become friends with one another. Then with sincerity and compassion there might come a moment of clarity whereby everyone will reach the truth lifting one another up.

I am reminded of the Jewish neighbor of the Prophet (peace be upon him) who would always put the dirt from his doorstep unto the Prophets (pbuh) doorstep every morning. One morning when this did not happen, and the Prophet (pbuh) inquired with the Jewish mans wife why her husband did not do the same thing on this particular morning, she explained how her husband was very sick and bedridden; whereby, the Prophet (pbuh) cooked a special stew to help the jewish neighbor heal. That jewish man was so astonished and amazed by our Prophets (pbuh) actions towards him that he asked for repentance.

WS

Edited by Salsal

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Salsal/YaHu: Don't break the site rules and what's with multiple IDs?

Dear Admin Nocturne,

I am a Twelver following the Akhbari school of thought. As you must know already, us Akhbaris have always been persecuted against in Shia Chat by those who follow the Usooli school of thought. In truth, the followers of Usool even give more respect to the sunni schools of thought than us. It is our wish that you can make sure that our (Akhbari) rights are also protected in ShiaChat.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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Salsal/YaHu: Don't break the site rules and what's with multiple IDs?

Ya Ali Madad,

I am a Lover of our Ahl-e Bait (as) . I break no rules, unless loving our Masums (as) is a crime then I am guilty. This website is called ShiaChat (not usooli shia/sunni dialogue chat or usooli chat). As long as you call your site ShiaChat, you must allow other Shia Schools of thought to be reflected here. That includes Akhbari, Shaikhis, Shia Sufis, and Usoolis. After that, we can include our sunni brothers and those from other religions (christian brothers, jewish brothers) of Ahle-Ketab. Please in the name of our Holy Masums (as) stop discriminating against us (Akhbaris) or any other Shia school of thought that is different from your school of Thought (usooli).

Please, lets have a enlightening and respectful dialogue moving forward between one another (Akhbari and Usooli) especially when we have our 12 Imams (as) in common. Its not like we claim Zaidi or Ismaili. We (Akhbaris) are Twelvers and the only big difference between us (Akhbaris) and you (Usoolis) is that we have a bigger selection of our Imams (as) hadiths and we only look upon those narrators who collected our Imams (as) sayings (narrations) and no one else.

Thank you and again please protect our right (the Akhbaris) as much as you do our sunni brothers and the rest (Ahl-e Ketab),

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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YaHu, you aren't here for dialogue, you are here to copy and paste long articles. Whenever anyone has attempted to engage you in dialogue, you have responded with yet another copy and paste.

Dear Shia Brother,

So are you saying that I am wrong to quote our Imams (as)? Everything I copy and paste is a Hadith, tradition, and words of our Holy Masums (as). I have no opinion of my own. I only copy what our Holy Imams (as) say and do; and that includes Salat. Our Holy Imams (as) have already set all the rules for Salat and what is Halal and Haram. I do not need to do taqleed to a Mujtahed. I rather copy and paste the words and actions of our Holy Imams (as) than copy and paste the words and actions (taqleed) of the Mujtaheds (that is our difference). InshAllah, through healthy dialogue we can reach a common ground. Lets both pray for this.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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Dear Shia Brother,

So are you saying that I am wrong to quote our Imams (as)? Everything I copy and paste is a Hadith, tradition, and words of our Holy Masums (as). I have no opinion of my own. I only copy what our Holy Imams (as) say and do; and that includes Salat. Our Holy Imams (as) have already set all the rules for Salat. I do not need to do taqleed to a Mujtahed. I rather copy and paste the words and actions of our Holy Imams (as) than copy and paste the words and actions (taqleed) of the Mujtaheds (that is our difference). InshAllah, through healthy dialogue we can reach a common ground. Lets both pray for this.

Ya Ali Madad!

I am not asking you to do taqlid. I am simply asking that you don't copy and paste from another writer, even if he is quoting the Aimma (as). Put down your books and the ahadith for a second, and engage with us in yout own words. Surely that is possible? When you talk to someone in person and they ask you a question, do you quote a long list of ahadith, or direct them to a book? I would hope not.

ws

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I am not asking you to do taqlid. I am simply asking that you don't copy and paste from another writer, even if he is quoting the Aimma (as). Put down your books and the ahadith for a second, and engage with us in yout own words. Surely that is possible? When you talk to someone in person and they ask you a question, do you quote a long list of ahadith, or direct them to a book? I would hope not.

ws

Dear Shia Brother,

I really do want us to engage with one another. Both you and I claim to Love our Holy Masums (as), so why don't we now prove it by starting from this common ground. Now, what should you and I start with first. Lets be friends and with the blessings from our Beloved Ahl-e Bait (as) we may get somewhere worth getting to. Lets make a Dua and pray for this InshAllah.

Thank you,

Ya Ali Madad

Edited by YaHu

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I really do want us to engage with one another. Both you and I claim to Love our Holy Masums (as), so why don't we now prove it by starting from this common ground. Now, what should you and I start with first. Lets be friends and with the blessings from our Beloved Ahl-e Bait (as) we may get somewhere worth getting to. Lets make a Dua and pray for this InshAllah.

Change of heart?

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Change of heart?

Dear Brother,

Our Imams (as) have informed us to speak to the people in their language (meaning their level of understanding). So Orion now that your back, lets have a disscussion so that we may get somewhere. My question to you first is, "who (what Mujtahed) do you do your taqleed to? Is it Sistani? or Shirazi? or someone else? Or is it one who has already passed away during a time when you were doing taqleed to them?

Edited by YaHu

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Dear Shia Brother,

So are you saying that I am wrong to quote our Imams (as)? Everything I copy and paste is a Hadith, tradition, and words of our Holy Masums (as). I have no opinion of my own. I only copy what our Holy Imams (as) say and do; and that includes Salat. Our Holy Imams (as) have already set all the rules for Salat and what is Halal and Haram. I do not need to do taqleed to a Mujtahed. I rather copy and paste the words and actions of our Holy Imams (as) than copy and paste the words and actions (taqleed) of the Mujtaheds (that is our difference). InshAllah, through healthy dialogue we can reach a common ground. Lets both pray for this.

Ya Ali Madad!

(salam)

That makes you seem like a bot. As for the traditions of Imams, you didnt answer to the traditions I posted in my last post on this thread. It seems as rather, you take the hadith which suit you and reject those that don't.

So please reply to my last post on Imam Ali's quotes and then truly say Ya Ali Madad!

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My question to you first is, "who (what Mujtahed) do you do your taqleed to? Is it Sistani? or Shirazi? or someone else? Or is it one who has already passed away during a time when you were doing taqleed to them?

(bismillah)

May be I follow one of them, both of them or several others. Maybe I don’t do taqlid and act on Ahteyat (precaution). Or maybe I am qualified Mujtahid myself and don’t need to do follow anyone.

So, why do you ask?

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Brother YaHu, I suggest we leave scholars out of this discussion, since we will never be able to agree on who is a 'real' scholar. Let us just use our own language, and our own reasoning. I don't mind if you quote a hadith here or there, when relelvant, but quoting a whole page of them makes for very difficult reading.

I think a good start for this discussion would be for you to clear up some of the possible misunderstandings some of us may have about your views. There are several questions that were addressed to you a few pages back that you never answered. It would be helpful if you could do so in your own words.

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Brother YaHu, I suggest we leave scholars out of this discussion, since we will never be able to agree on who is a 'real' scholar. Let us just use our own language, and our own reasoning. I don't mind if you quote a hadith here or there, when relelvant, but quoting a whole page of them makes for very difficult reading.

I think a good start for this discussion would be for you to clear up some of the possible misunderstandings some of us may have about your views. There are several questions that were addressed to you a few pages back that you never answered. It would be helpful if you could do so in your own words.

Dear Haider Husayn,

Thank you for your respectful post. I will be happy to go forward the way you suggested. I will look back and start answering your posts one by one InshAllah. However, I will not reply any longer to Orion because he has showed me his true colors. I could of easily reported him too for cursing our beloved scholar Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi, but I did not. Let him remember that.

From now on if any one sincerely has any questions about our Akhbari school of thought within Shiaism, please privatley message us because we will not allow some usoolis here to bully us arround and try to make us lose our temper. That is just not right and from now I will only have dialogue with a sincere seeker of Truth.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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If anyone has any questions for me as well and our Akhbari school of thought, go ahead and privately message me as well because there are certain individuals here who are trying to silence us with intimidations. I have already gotten death threats by certain hackers and I reported it to the moderators.

Any sincere seeker of our Ahl-e Bait (as) may message me privately on any subject, and I will be more than happy to give any insight on that topic. Especially if it is dealing with IRFAN (Marifat of our Ahl-e Bait).

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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No YaHu, we need you in this forum.

Given you share the same ip address could you not have told Yahu this face-to-face? Or even shared the thought from one part of your brain to another, if you are the same person?

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Using Aql (brain) is prohibited in Akhbari faith.

:angel:

Once again, you have your definitions wrong. To you Aql means reason. To us real Shias Aql means Hiero-Inteligence, the Inner Imam (Within the Momins heart), and the Inner Nur of the Imams Wilayat.

The Mujtaheds are carrying the same banner as the Abbasid Empire.

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I'm surprised YaHu isn't banned yet...

Given you share the same ip address could you not have told Yahu this face-to-face? Or even shared the thought from one part of your brain to another, if you are the same person?

:!!!: lol

Edited by 14infallibles

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Once again, you have your definitions wrong. To you Aql means reason. To us real Shias Aql means Hiero-Inteligence, the Inner Imam (Within the Momins heart), and the Inner Nur of the Imams Wilayat.

The Mujtaheds are carrying the same banner as the Abbasid Empire.

If the likes of you are the 'real shias' then Allah help us.

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If the likes of you are the 'real shias' then Allah help us.

When we read history we see that most of the

lives of our Imams (asws) have either been spent in

prisons or in Their own homes. So then who used to give verdicts (Fatwas) in far flung

areas where people did not have the direct contact with the Imams (asws.)? If people of

those areas were in need of Mujtahids then who were the people appointed by the

Imams (aws) as Mujtahids for those people? If there was no need for the Mujtahids at

that time then there is no need for them today.

Let us take a moment here and ponder upon the following points;

1. The terms Ijtihad and Mujtahid have nothing to do with Masoomeen (asws) and

they never used these words in the manner that is being done today (they are of Sunni origin).

2. Masoomeen (asws) never appointed any Mujtahid to be a guide for the people

and therefore a Mujtahid can never be a NAIB-E-IMAAM. (Appointed

representative).

3. The terms used by Masoomeen (asws) such as scholar can never be

taken to mean Mujtahid.

Marjaiat is an intoxicant like none other. Even at the time of the

minor occultation, despite having respect for the last of the Imams (asws) they had

started thinking about establishing their Marjaiat. The first thing they did was to

introduce the term 'Naaib e Imam' (Representative of Imam) and adopt it for

themselves. They were soon reprimanded for this from the letters that came from Imam

(atfs.), and so the Shias were kept safe from the deceptive traps of

Shaitan (la).

The messengers of Imam (atfs) were neither

Mujtahids themselves, nor were they issuing any verdicts (Fatwas), nor did they believe

in the principles of jurisprudence, nor did they ever invite people to follow them (do

their Taqleed). These 'special representatives' only used to convey the commands of the

Imams (asws) and that's it.

If this religion of the Mujtahids were to be analyzed, what would be the criteria for it?

Personal opinions, personal choice, personal circumstances or the words of Masoom

(asws)? Certainly those that are aware and love their religion would say that the criteria

should be the words of Masoomeen (asws). So, without any hesitation I would like to

quote one tradition from Al Kafi and let you decide.

Imam Jafar Sadiq (asws.) said, "People have been ordered to get Our understanding, and

to turn to Us (rujoo) and obey what We say. If these people fast , offer prayers , and give

testimony of Allah but do not turn towards Us for guidance and in obedience , they would

become polytheists" – AL KAFI.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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This is for the real and true Shias, and not for those who are Usoolis:

Since the Walayah is superior to the prophecy of which it is the source, it follows that the person of the wali—that is to say the Imam—takes precedence over that of the Prophet; and the Imamate always has and always will take precedence over the prophetic mission. The exaltation of the Imam as the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil) to the supreme rank and, as a corollary to this, the decisive and definitive supremacy of the ta'wil—of, that is to say, esoteric (Batin)Islam over exoteric (Zahir) Islam, of the religion of the Resurrection (Qiyamat) over the religion of the Law (Shariat). This concept of the Imam is integral to the entire philosophy of mankind. Because the human Form is 'the image of the divine Form', it is par excellence invested with the theophanic function. It thereby assumes the function of cosmic salvation, because the return to the World beyond—the world of spiritual entities—is the transition to a state of existence in which everything takes the form of human reality, since it is the human being alone who possesses speech, the logos. Thus, it is through the instrumentality of Man that things rediscover the way back to the Origin. But this perfect human Form—this theophany disclosed in pre-eternity—is that of the Imam. To say that the Imam is the Man of God, Perfect Man, is to acknowledge him as the supreme instrument of soteriology. Likewise, soteriology is in itself conditioned by the tahqiq, the realization of the true meaning of all exoteric (zahir) forms, just as this realization is conditioned by the ta'wil, the function of the Imam. Once more, what this Imamology envisages essentially is not the empirical figure of any particular Imam, but the reality and the essence of an eternal Imam, of whom each Imam individually is the earthly exemplification. This is the eternal Imam to whom reference is made in the Quranic expression mawlana, 'our lord', or whom it is said that he always existed, exists and will exist. All the various versions of his Coming are relative to men's perception. In the divine pleroma {'alam-iKhuda) these mutations have no place. An immediate consequence of this is that knowledge of the Imam, of the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil), is the only knowledge of God possible to man, since the Imam is the initial theophany. In the phrase quoted above, as in all similar phrases, the speaker is the eternal Imam. 'Prophets pass and change. We are eternal Men.' 'I knew God before Heaven and Earth were created.' 'The light cast by the lamp is not the lamp itself; but if this light did not exist, how would one know what the lamp is, or even whether or not there is a lamp and where it is?' 'The Men of God are not God himself; nevertheless, they are inseparable from God.' Because the Imamate is the primordial theophany, the revelation of the divine Abyss and the guide towards this Revelation, the Imam is the supreme hujjah (proof), the guarantor who answers for the unknowable divinity. This is stated in the great sermon preached by the Imam Hasan 'a/a dhikrihi al-salam, on the 8th August 1164 CE, when he proclaimed the Great Resurrection at Alamut:'Mawlana (our lord) is the Resurrector (qa'im al-qiyama); he is the lord of beings; he is the lord who is the absolute act of being [al-wujud al-mutlaq); he excludes all existential determination, for he transcends them all; he opens up the threshold of his Mercy, and through the light of his Knowledge he causes all beings to see, hear and speak for all eternity'. Only the eternal Imam, as a theophany, makes possible an ontology: since he is the revealed one, he is being as such. He is the absolute Person, the eternal divine Face (chahrah-'i Khuda in Persian), the supreme divine Attribute and supreme Name of God. In his earthly form he is the epiphany of the supreme Word (mazhar-i kalimah-'i a 'la), the Bringer of Truth in every age (muhiqq-i vaqt), the manifestation of Eternal Man who manifests the Face of God. A second consequence is that for man, knowledge of self presupposes knowledge of the Imam. On the basis of the statement of the fourth Imam that 'Knowledge of God is knowledge of the Imam', our texts repeat: 'He who dies without having known his Imam, dies the death of the oblivious'. The reason for this may be sought in the specific interpretation given to the maxim repeated by all Islamic spirituals: 'He who knows himself knows his Lord, that is to say, he knows his Imam.' this is the knowledge that was promised by the first Imam: 'Be faithful to me, and I will make you as similar to myself as Salman.' It emerges from these texts that knowledge of God, of the Imam and of the self are aspects of one and the same fundamental, liberating knowledge, of the same gnosis. This is the reason why the Persian texts of the tradition of Alamut emphasize the four possible ways of knowing the Imam. 'One may possess knowledge of his person in its physical form—a knowledge of which even animals are capable. One may possess knowledge of his official name and of his earthly genealogy—a knowledge to which even his enemies have access. There is the knowledge which recognizes his Imamate—a knowledge shared by all the members of the da'wah. Finally, there is the knowledge of his Essence according to the eternal reality of his attributes—a knowledge, that is, which presupposes a transcendence of all other modes of knowing. Such knowledge dazzles the soul, and is the privilege of the hujjah.' Likewise, there is a quadruple line of descent relative to the Imam, as follows: according to the flesh; in the spiritual sense; according both to the flesh and in the spiritual sense; and, lastly, according to the flesh, the spiritual sense and the eternal reality of his essence. The Imam's purely spiritual descendant (farzand-i ma'nawi) is the hujjah—a status which has its archetype in Salman the Persian, and which, according to the promise of the Imam, is exemplified in every faithful initiate. With the promotion of the hujjah to the highest rank, the entire traditional hierarchy is modified. It is Imamology and the philosophy of resurrection. One can speak here of a radical shift. It is always the case that the hierarchy of the hudud denotes their respective degree of proximity to the Imam. But now the meaning of this hierarchy tends to become more interior, and 'the limits' indicate rather the degrees of 'conformity with the Imam' that correspond to stages in the progress of one's inner consciousness. The ta'wil makes the hierocosmos {the esoteric hierarchical brotherhood) symbolize with the microcosm. The consequence of this is a fall in the rank assigned to the natiq, the prophet who proclaims a Law, and a different appreciation of the cycle of prophecy. Both these are corollaries of the elevation of the rank of hujjah. The predominance of the syzygy Prophet-Imam is replaced by that of the Imam and his hujjah. In later Twelver Shiite theosophy, the mission of the prophet of Islam marked the full noonday hour {the equilibrium between zahir and batin). Shortly after began the decline towards evening, the return into the night of esotericism, the cycle of the pure walayah. In early Twelver Shiite theosophy, the entry of the haqiqah—the pure spiritual religion—into the night of esotericism began not with Muhammad, Seal of prophets, but with the very first prophet, Adam, who initiated our present cycle of occultation—that is to say, it began with the beginnings of present humanity. Early Twelver Shiaism pessimism confronts this radical disaster with its entire philosophy of Resurrection (Qiyamat), with its revolt, even, against the shari'ah. The six great periods of 'legislative prophecy' are always seen as the hexaemeron, the 'six days' of the creation of the religious cosmos or hierocosmos, each 'day' being counted as a 'millennium'. But in point of fact, the six 'days' are the night of divine religion the night of the Imam, because during these six days the literal Law or shari'ah of the legislative prophets is the veil hiding the reality (Haqq), hiding the sun of the Imam. Just as the sun is replaced by the moon in illuminating the night, the Imam is replaced by him who is his hujjah, his proof or guarantor (his 'Salman'). Knowledge of the Imam in his true Essence will only become manifest on the seventh day, that is, on the day after the still-continuing hexaemeron. Only the seventh day will truly partake of the nature of day, that on which the sun shines forth {the yawm al-qiyamah or day of the Resurrection). Within the context of this vision of things, the drop in rank of the prophet-legislator needs no explanation. Whereas in laterTwelver Imamism, as in Fatimid Ismailism, he ranked first (being the earthly homologue of the First Intelligence), in the early Twelver Imamism he ranks third. It seems, indeed, that in this the Imamology of early Twelver Imamism merely reproduces an order of precedence that existed in pre-Mujtahid Usoolism, one represented by the order of succession of the three symbolic letters 'ayn {'Ali, the Imam), sin (Salman, Gabriel, the hujjah), and mim (Muhammad, the Prophet). The Prophet, in fact, in his capacity as a natiq—the annunciator of a shari'ah—has the rank and function of a da'i who 'convokes' men towards the Imam who is the secret meaning of the shari'ah he annunciates. This is why each prophet, at the beginning of his vocation as da'i, has gone to meet the hujjah of the Imam of his time, who stands in the same relation to him as Khidr-Elijah, Moses' prophet-initiator, stood to Moses. (In the Early Twelver Shiite exegesis of the history of the prophets, Paradise for Adam, the ark for Noah, the Burning Bush for Moses, Mary for Jesus, and Salman for Muhammad are all interpreted as figurations of the meeting with the hujjah.) Every initiate in his turn follows the example of the prophet- da'i and advances towards the same encounter, towards spiritual union with the hujjah: they become gnostics ('arif) who share in the same gnosis. This is the meaning of the Imam's promise to his disciple when he tells him that he will make him as similar to himself as Salman. The Imam stands in the same relation to his hujjah as the creative Esto to the first Intelligence. Such is the privileged situation of the hujjah, of all those whose archetype is Salman: those of whom it is said that from the very beginning the spiritual essence [ma'na) of each of their persons is the same as the Imam's (whence comes the fourth of the modes of knowledge and filiation described above). 'To be promoted to the rank of hujjah' is to exemplify in one's own person the case of Salman, to attain to the 'Salman of your being'—the 'Salman of the microcosm', as it is called in the ancient treatise Umm al-Kitab, which we cited above. With regard to the secret of such an attainment, the following few lines may perhaps yield the supreme message of Ismaili philosophy: 'The Imam has said: I am with my friends wherever they seek me, on the mountain, in the plain and in the desert. The man to whom I have revealed my Essence, that is to say the mystical knowledge of myself, has no further need of my physical proximity. And this is the Great Resurrection.' The texts of the early Twelver tradition of our Masooms show us both the way in which Imamology fructifies in mystical experience, and how it presupposes such an experience. The conjunction of Twelver Imamism and Sufism, which took place after the time of the Mongol invasion, refers us to the as yet unsolved problem of origins. If we agree with the Shiite spirituals that Sunni Sufism is something which, by endowing the Prophet alone with the attributes of the Imam and thereby making the walayah into an Imamology without an Imam, parted company with Shiism at a given moment,then the early Twelver Imamia does no more than restore the old order of things. Hence its importance for all Shiite Sufism after this period, as well as for the entire cultural field whose language was Persian. We have just seen how the replacement of the pair Nabi-Imam by the pair Imam-hujjah reflects the process of mystical interiorization. In a commentary on Mahmud al-Shabistari's 'Rosary of Mystery' by an anonymous Irfani writer, the unio mystica of the Imam and the hujjah is mediated in the magnificent symbol of the olive tree growing at the top of Mount Sinai (Quran 95:1-2). There are two mountains, the mountain of intelligence and the mountain of love. In his meditation on the secret of the earthly human Form, in which is concealed the love of the 'hidden Treasure which longed to be known', the mystical pilgrim discovers that his own person, like that of Moses, is the Sinai at the summit (or the heart) of which is revealed the theophanic Form of the eternal Imam. Upon this summit, or within this sanctuary, the 'Soul of the soul' is revealed to the soul as the mystical olive tree which stands on the invisible heights of the Sinai of love. The pilgrim must climb the Sinai of love, which is higher than the mountain of Intelligence; for although the intellect is the guide leading to the secret of the theophany, it is also the guide who ultimately steps aside, like Virgil in the presence of Beatrice. As we have seen, in performing this inner pilgrimage the disciple does no more than repeat the initial step of each prophet in search of the Imam. To reach the summit of the Sinai of his soul is, for the mystic, to realize the state of Salman the Pure, of the hujjah: it is to attain to the Soul of the soul (jan-i jan). This Soul is the Imam, the olive tree growing on the top of the Sinai of love; and the soul of the mystic is this very love, since the Sinai is the Sinai of his being. Thus, what the soul discovers at the summit, or the heart, of her being is the Imam as the eternal beloved. The syzygy of the Imam and his hujjah becomes the inner dialogue between the Beloved and the Lover. The Soul of his soul is her to whom he is able to say thou, it is his 'I' in the second person. As it was for Moses on Sinai, in the presence of the Soul of his soul, the 'Moses of his being', his 'I' in the first person, is obliterated. In contemplating herself in the Soul of the soul, the soul becomes the object of contemplation of the Soul of the soul, and this latter, in its place and time, utters the words: Ego sum Deus. In this manner the famous pronouncement of al-Hallaj (ana al-haqq), repeated over the centuries by the Sufis, acquires a truly Shiite flavour. Imamology frees it from the trap of transcendental monism, which created so many problems for reflexive thought. 3. Ultimately, the mystical experience of the Sufis encompasses a metaphysic which baffles both the dialectic of philosophers pure and simple, and that of the theologians of the kalam. It will be clear, from what has been said here, that there is yet another form of metaphysics in Islam, without which it may be impossible to explain the beginnings and the development of Sufism. This other form is essentially the Shiite gnosis which goes back to the Imams themselves.

In conclusion, the mediator who is a necessary condition of Shiite prophetology is technically known as hujjah (the proof, God's guarantee to men). Nevertheless, idea and function transcend the limits of any particular epoch: the presence of the hujjah needs to be continuous, even if it is an invisible presence to which the majority of men are oblivious. If, therefore, the term is applied to the Prophet, it is in turn applied even more emphatically to the Imams. (In the hierarchy of early Twelver Imamiya, the hujjah becomes in some sense a spiritual double of the Imam) The idea of the hujjah thus already presupposes the inseparability of prophetology from Imamology; and because it transcends time, it originates in a metaphysical reality, the vision of which takes us back to the gnostic theme of the celestial Anthropos.

This variant, for example, emanates from the Imam: "Salman is one of us, the members of the House (Salman minna, Ahl al-Bayt), a Sun of the divine Light, an integral part of ourselves. The heart of the True Believer is the Light of God; no one measures his measure, for the True Believer is forever living in the two universes." Or yet again: "Salman is part of myself, and I myself am part of Salman." In primitive Shiism, or more precisely in early Twelver Imamiya, this assumption of Salman is reflected in the speculations developed around the three symbolic letters 'AYN, SIN, MIM, typifying respectively the Imam, Salman the Adopted One (his Spiritual Child), and the Prophet. The "Book of the Glorious One" of Jabir ibn Hayyan starts from these highly abstruse speculations. The apotheosis of Salman show him as archetype of the True Believer, as the Adopted One, the Spiritual Child, exemplifying the bond between the True Believer and the Imam. Amir Al-Momineen states, "Consecrate to me thy devotion and thy knowledge, and thou wilt become, as Salman, like unto me." "To become as Salman" is to become oneself a Hujjat, the Imam's Proof and Adopted One, and thereby to become "like unto the Imam"; such is the ultimate metamorphosis to which the initiate will aspire. Thus Salman the Mazdean, then the Christian, the Exile in "Quest" of the True Prophet, then the Spiritual Child of the Imam who solemnly attests his "adoption," has become the "Threshold"; so will it be with all the "Salmans," with every soul that exemplifies his case; each one, as a very ancient text declares, becomes the "Salman of the microcosmos." Like Salman, Jabir can become (or rather, becomes) the Hujjat, the mirror in which is revealed (mazhar) the Imam. For this the Imam must be epiphanized to him, must become "manifest" (zahir) to him in a vision which is not that of the senses. But to have this vision is to assume in oneself the light of the Imam, it is to become oneself the mirror in which he reveals himself. Thus the circle is closed. For what thou seest is the part that the measure of thy being can assume, carry, conceive). Then too, the Imam becomes "through thee" what he is in relation to the Hiidden God: he is the mirror that reveals (mazhar) him, because God is for him and through him the Manifested One for and through Salman, in the measure in which Salman-Jabir, as he to whom the Imam manifests himself (zahir), is thereby the place and form of his Manifestation (mazhar): he is his "coming into this world". In other words, the hidden godhead stands in the same relation to the Imam as the Imam to Salman. And this is the epiphanic mediation of the eternal Imam. To achieve the capacity for this vision is the supreme metamorphosis: it is to become the pure mirror in which the epiphanies are accomplished. It is to be the "Salman of the microcosm," to be at the end of the "Quest for the Imam"

—and it is to keep his personal secret inviolable.

After reading the above essay, and one still has doubts, then please read this below:

The fifth Imam, Muhammad al-Baqir, as every Imam after him, has declared, 'Our cause is difficult; it requires great effort; it can be espoused only by an Angel of the highest rank, a prophet who is sent (nabi mursal), or a faithful initiate (Shia, Momin) whose heart God has tested for its faith.' The sixth Imam, Ja'far al-Sadiq, specified further: 'Our cause is a secret (sirr) within a secret, a secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which may only be disclosed by another secret; a secret upon a secret which is supported by a secret.' And again: 'Our cause is the truth and the truth of truth (haqq al-haqq); it is the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric aspect of the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric (batin) aspect of the esoteric aspect. It is the secret, and the secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which is supported by a secret.' The significance of these remarks was already observed in a poem written by the fourth Imam, 'Ali Zayn al-'Abidin (d. 95/714): 'I conceal the jewels of my Knowledge—For fear that some ignorant man, on seeing the truth, should crush us O Lord! if I were to reveal one pearl of my gnosis—They would say to me: are you then a worshipper of idols?—And there would be Muslims who would see justice in the shedding of my blood!—They find abominable the most beautiful thing they are offered.' One could make many citations of a similar import. They testify most admirably to the ethos of Shiism, to the awareness it possesses of being the esotericism of Islam; and it is impossible, historically speaking, to go back further than the teachings of the Imams in seeking for the sources of Islamic esotericism. It is on this account that Shiites, in the true sense, are those who accept the secrets of the Imams. Conversely, all those who have sought or who seek to confine the teaching of the Imams to the exoteric (zahir) aspect—to questions of law and of ritual—mutilate the essence of Shiism.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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This is for the real and true Shias, and not for those who are Usoolis:

Since the Walayah is superior to the prophecy of which it is the source, it follows that the person of the wali—that is to say the Imam—takes precedence over that of the Prophet; and the Imamate always has and always will take precedence over the prophetic mission. The exaltation of the Imam as the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil) to the supreme rank and, as a corollary to this, the decisive and definitive supremacy of the ta'wil—of, that is to say, esoteric (Batin)Islam over exoteric (Zahir) Islam, of the religion of the Resurrection (Qiyamat) over the religion of the Law (Shariat). This concept of the Imam is integral to the entire philosophy of mankind. Because the human Form is 'the image of the divine Form', it is par excellence invested with the theophanic function. It thereby assumes the function of cosmic salvation, because the return to the World beyond—the world of spiritual entities—is the transition to a state of existence in which everything takes the form of human reality, since it is the human being alone who possesses speech, the logos. Thus, it is through the instrumentality of Man that things rediscover the way back to the Origin. But this perfect human Form—this theophany disclosed in pre-eternity—is that of the Imam. To say that the Imam is the Man of God, Perfect Man, is to acknowledge him as the supreme instrument of soteriology. Likewise, soteriology is in itself conditioned by the tahqiq, the realization of the true meaning of all exoteric (zahir) forms, just as this realization is conditioned by the ta'wil, the function of the Imam. Once more, what this Imamology envisages essentially is not the empirical figure of any particular Imam, but the reality and the essence of an eternal Imam, of whom each Imam individually is the earthly exemplification. This is the eternal Imam to whom reference is made in the Quranic expression mawlana, 'our lord', or whom it is said that he always existed, exists and will exist. All the various versions of his Coming are relative to men's perception. In the divine pleroma {'alam-iKhuda) these mutations have no place. An immediate consequence of this is that knowledge of the Imam, of the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil), is the only knowledge of God possible to man, since the Imam is the initial theophany. In the phrase quoted above, as in all similar phrases, the speaker is the eternal Imam. 'Prophets pass and change. We are eternal Men.' 'I knew God before Heaven and Earth were created.' 'The light cast by the lamp is not the lamp itself; but if this light did not exist, how would one know what the lamp is, or even whether or not there is a lamp and where it is?' 'The Men of God are not God himself; nevertheless, they are inseparable from God.' Because the Imamate is the primordial theophany, the revelation of the divine Abyss and the guide towards this Revelation, the Imam is the supreme hujjah (proof), the guarantor who answers for the unknowable divinity. This is stated in the great sermon preached by the Imam Hasan 'a/a dhikrihi al-salam, on the 8th August 1164 CE, when he proclaimed the Great Resurrection at Alamut:'Mawlana (our lord) is the Resurrector (qa'im al-qiyama); he is the lord of beings; he is the lord who is the absolute act of being [al-wujud al-mutlaq); he excludes all existential determination, for he transcends them all; he opens up the threshold of his Mercy, and through the light of his Knowledge he causes all beings to see, hear and speak for all eternity'. Only the eternal Imam, as a theophany, makes possible an ontology: since he is the revealed one, he is being as such. He is the absolute Person, the eternal divine Face (chahrah-'i Khuda in Persian), the supreme divine Attribute and supreme Name of God. In his earthly form he is the epiphany of the supreme Word (mazhar-i kalimah-'i a 'la), the Bringer of Truth in every age (muhiqq-i vaqt), the manifestation of Eternal Man who manifests the Face of God. A second consequence is that for man, knowledge of self presupposes knowledge of the Imam. On the basis of the statement of the fourth Imam that 'Knowledge of God is knowledge of the Imam', our texts repeat: 'He who dies without having known his Imam, dies the death of the oblivious'. The reason for this may be sought in the specific interpretation given to the maxim repeated by all Islamic spirituals: 'He who knows himself knows his Lord, that is to say, he knows his Imam.' this is the knowledge that was promised by the first Imam: 'Be faithful to me, and I will make you as similar to myself as Salman.' It emerges from these texts that knowledge of God, of the Imam and of the self are aspects of one and the same fundamental, liberating knowledge, of the same gnosis. This is the reason why the Persian texts of the tradition of Alamut emphasize the four possible ways of knowing the Imam. 'One may possess knowledge of his person in its physical form—a knowledge of which even animals are capable. One may possess knowledge of his official name and of his earthly genealogy—a knowledge to which even his enemies have access. There is the knowledge which recognizes his Imamate—a knowledge shared by all the members of the da'wah. Finally, there is the knowledge of his Essence according to the eternal reality of his attributes—a knowledge, that is, which presupposes a transcendence of all other modes of knowing. Such knowledge dazzles the soul, and is the privilege of the hujjah.' Likewise, there is a quadruple line of descent relative to the Imam, as follows: according to the flesh; in the spiritual sense; according both to the flesh and in the spiritual sense; and, lastly, according to the flesh, the spiritual sense and the eternal reality of his essence. The Imam's purely spiritual descendant (farzand-i ma'nawi) is the hujjah—a status which has its archetype in Salman the Persian, and which, according to the promise of the Imam, is exemplified in every faithful initiate. With the promotion of the hujjah to the highest rank, the entire traditional hierarchy is modified. It is Imamology and the philosophy of resurrection. One can speak here of a radical shift. It is always the case that the hierarchy of the hudud denotes their respective degree of proximity to the Imam. But now the meaning of this hierarchy tends to become more interior, and 'the limits' indicate rather the degrees of 'conformity with the Imam' that correspond to stages in the progress of one's inner consciousness. The ta'wil makes the hierocosmos {the esoteric hierarchical brotherhood) symbolize with the microcosm. The consequence of this is a fall in the rank assigned to the natiq, the prophet who proclaims a Law, and a different appreciation of the cycle of prophecy. Both these are corollaries of the elevation of the rank of hujjah. The predominance of the syzygy Prophet-Imam is replaced by that of the Imam and his hujjah. In later Twelver Shiite theosophy, the mission of the prophet of Islam marked the full noonday hour {the equilibrium between zahir and batin). Shortly after began the decline towards evening, the return into the night of esotericism, the cycle of the pure walayah. In early Twelver Shiite theosophy, the entry of the haqiqah—the pure spiritual religion—into the night of esotericism began not with Muhammad, Seal of prophets, but with the very first prophet, Adam, who initiated our present cycle of occultation—that is to say, it began with the beginnings of present humanity. Early Twelver Shiaism pessimism confronts this radical disaster with its entire philosophy of Resurrection (Qiyamat), with its revolt, even, against the shari'ah. The six great periods of 'legislative prophecy' are always seen as the hexaemeron, the 'six days' of the creation of the religious cosmos or hierocosmos, each 'day' being counted as a 'millennium'. But in point of fact, the six 'days' are the night of divine religion the night of the Imam, because during these six days the literal Law or shari'ah of the legislative prophets is the veil hiding the reality (Haqq), hiding the sun of the Imam. Just as the sun is replaced by the moon in illuminating the night, the Imam is replaced by him who is his hujjah, his proof or guarantor (his 'Salman'). Knowledge of the Imam in his true Essence will only become manifest on the seventh day, that is, on the day after the still-continuing hexaemeron. Only the seventh day will truly partake of the nature of day, that on which the sun shines forth {the yawm al-qiyamah or day of the Resurrection). Within the context of this vision of things, the drop in rank of the prophet-legislator needs no explanation. Whereas in laterTwelver Imamism, as in Fatimid Ismailism, he ranked first (being the earthly homologue of the First Intelligence), in the early Twelver Imamism he ranks third. It seems, indeed, that in this the Imamology of early Twelver Imamism merely reproduces an order of precedence that existed in pre-Mujtahid Usoolism, one represented by the order of succession of the three symbolic letters 'ayn {'Ali, the Imam), sin (Salman, Gabriel, the hujjah), and mim (Muhammad, the Prophet). The Prophet, in fact, in his capacity as a natiq—the annunciator of a shari'ah—has the rank and function of a da'i who 'convokes' men towards the Imam who is the secret meaning of the shari'ah he annunciates. This is why each prophet, at the beginning of his vocation as da'i, has gone to meet the hujjah of the Imam of his time, who stands in the same relation to him as Khidr-Elijah, Moses' prophet-initiator, stood to Moses. (In the Early Twelver Shiite exegesis of the history of the prophets, Paradise for Adam, the ark for Noah, the Burning Bush for Moses, Mary for Jesus, and Salman for Muhammad are all interpreted as figurations of the meeting with the hujjah.) Every initiate in his turn follows the example of the prophet- da'i and advances towards the same encounter, towards spiritual union with the hujjah: they become gnostics ('arif) who share in the same gnosis. This is the meaning of the Imam's promise to his disciple when he tells him that he will make him as similar to himself as Salman. The Imam stands in the same relation to his hujjah as the creative Esto to the first Intelligence. Such is the privileged situation of the hujjah, of all those whose archetype is Salman: those of whom it is said that from the very beginning the spiritual essence [ma'na) of each of their persons is the same as the Imam's (whence comes the fourth of the modes of knowledge and filiation described above). 'To be promoted to the rank of hujjah' is to exemplify in one's own person the case of Salman, to attain to the 'Salman of your being'—the 'Salman of the microcosm', as it is called in the ancient treatise Umm al-Kitab, which we cited above. With regard to the secret of such an attainment, the following few lines may perhaps yield the supreme message of Ismaili philosophy: 'The Imam has said: I am with my friends wherever they seek me, on the mountain, in the plain and in the desert. The man to whom I have revealed my Essence, that is to say the mystical knowledge of myself, has no further need of my physical proximity. And this is the Great Resurrection.' The texts of the early Twelver tradition of our Masooms show us both the way in which Imamology fructifies in mystical experience, and how it presupposes such an experience. The conjunction of Twelver Imamism and Sufism, which took place after the time of the Mongol invasion, refers us to the as yet unsolved problem of origins. If we agree with the Shiite spirituals that Sunni Sufism is something which, by endowing the Prophet alone with the attributes of the Imam and thereby making the walayah into an Imamology without an Imam, parted company with Shiism at a given moment,then the early Twelver Imamia does no more than restore the old order of things. Hence its importance for all Shiite Sufism after this period, as well as for the entire cultural field whose language was Persian. We have just seen how the replacement of the pair Nabi-Imam by the pair Imam-hujjah reflects the process of mystical interiorization. In a commentary on Mahmud al-Shabistari's 'Rosary of Mystery' by an anonymous Irfani writer, the unio mystica of the Imam and the hujjah is mediated in the magnificent symbol of the olive tree growing at the top of Mount Sinai (Quran 95:1-2). There are two mountains, the mountain of intelligence and the mountain of love. In his meditation on the secret of the earthly human Form, in which is concealed the love of the 'hidden Treasure which longed to be known', the mystical pilgrim discovers that his own person, like that of Moses, is the Sinai at the summit (or the heart) of which is revealed the theophanic Form of the eternal Imam. Upon this summit, or within this sanctuary, the 'Soul of the soul' is revealed to the soul as the mystical olive tree which stands on the invisible heights of the Sinai of love. The pilgrim must climb the Sinai of love, which is higher than the mountain of Intelligence; for although the intellect is the guide leading to the secret of the theophany, it is also the guide who ultimately steps aside, like Virgil in the presence of Beatrice. As we have seen, in performing this inner pilgrimage the disciple does no more than repeat the initial step of each prophet in search of the Imam. To reach the summit of the Sinai of his soul is, for the mystic, to realize the state of Salman the Pure, of the hujjah: it is to attain to the Soul of the soul (jan-i jan). This Soul is the Imam, the olive tree growing on the top of the Sinai of love; and the soul of the mystic is this very love, since the Sinai is the Sinai of his being. Thus, what the soul discovers at the summit, or the heart, of her being is the Imam as the eternal beloved. The syzygy of the Imam and his hujjah becomes the inner dialogue between the Beloved and the Lover. The Soul of his soul is her to whom he is able to say thou, it is his 'I' in the second person. As it was for Moses on Sinai, in the presence of the Soul of his soul, the 'Moses of his being', his 'I' in the first person, is obliterated. In contemplating herself in the Soul of the soul, the soul becomes the object of contemplation of the Soul of the soul, and this latter, in its place and time, utters the words: Ego sum Deus. In this manner the famous pronouncement of al-Hallaj (ana al-haqq), repeated over the centuries by the Sufis, acquires a truly Shiite flavour. Imamology frees it from the trap of transcendental monism, which created so many problems for reflexive thought. 3. Ultimately, the mystical experience of the Sufis encompasses a metaphysic which baffles both the dialectic of philosophers pure and simple, and that of the theologians of the kalam. It will be clear, from what has been said here, that there is yet another form of metaphysics in Islam, without which it may be impossible to explain the beginnings and the development of Sufism. This other form is essentially the Shiite gnosis which goes back to the Imams themselves.

In conclusion, the mediator who is a necessary condition of Shiite prophetology is technically known as hujjah (the proof, God's guarantee to men). Nevertheless, idea and function transcend the limits of any particular epoch: the presence of the hujjah needs to be continuous, even if it is an invisible presence to which the majority of men are oblivious. If, therefore, the term is applied to the Prophet, it is in turn applied even more emphatically to the Imams. (In the hierarchy of early Twelver Imamiya, the hujjah becomes in some sense a spiritual double of the Imam) The idea of the hujjah thus already presupposes the inseparability of prophetology from Imamology; and because it transcends time, it originates in a metaphysical reality, the vision of which takes us back to the gnostic theme of the celestial Anthropos.

This variant, for example, emanates from the Imam: "Salman is one of us, the members of the House (Salman minna, Ahl al-Bayt), a Sun of the divine Light, an integral part of ourselves. The heart of the True Believer is the Light of God; no one measures his measure, for the True Believer is forever living in the two universes." Or yet again: "Salman is part of myself, and I myself am part of Salman." In primitive Shiism, or more precisely in early Twelver Imamiya, this assumption of Salman is reflected in the speculations developed around the three symbolic letters 'AYN, SIN, MIM, typifying respectively the Imam, Salman the Adopted One (his Spiritual Child), and the Prophet. The "Book of the Glorious One" of Jabir ibn Hayyan starts from these highly abstruse speculations. The apotheosis of Salman show him as archetype of the True Believer, as the Adopted One, the Spiritual Child, exemplifying the bond between the True Believer and the Imam. Amir Al-Momineen states, "Consecrate to me thy devotion and thy knowledge, and thou wilt become, as Salman, like unto me." "To become as Salman" is to become oneself a Hujjat, the Imam's Proof and Adopted One, and thereby to become "like unto the Imam"; such is the ultimate metamorphosis to which the initiate will aspire. Thus Salman the Mazdean, then the Christian, the Exile in "Quest" of the True Prophet, then the Spiritual Child of the Imam who solemnly attests his "adoption," has become the "Threshold"; so will it be with all the "Salmans," with every soul that exemplifies his case; each one, as a very ancient text declares, becomes the "Salman of the microcosmos." Like Salman, Jabir can become (or rather, becomes) the Hujjat, the mirror in which is revealed (mazhar) the Imam. For this the Imam must be epiphanized to him, must become "manifest" (zahir) to him in a vision which is not that of the senses. But to have this vision is to assume in oneself the light of the Imam, it is to become oneself the mirror in which he reveals himself. Thus the circle is closed. For what thou seest is the part that the measure of thy being can assume, carry, conceive). Then too, the Imam becomes "through thee" what he is in relation to the Hiidden God: he is the mirror that reveals (mazhar) him, because God is for him and through him the Manifested One for and through Salman, in the measure in which Salman-Jabir, as he to whom the Imam manifests himself (zahir), is thereby the place and form of his Manifestation (mazhar): he is his "coming into this world". In other words, the hidden godhead stands in the same relation to the Imam as the Imam to Salman. And this is the epiphanic mediation of the eternal Imam. To achieve the capacity for this vision is the supreme metamorphosis: it is to become the pure mirror in which the epiphanies are accomplished. It is to be the "Salman of the microcosm," to be at the end of the "Quest for the Imam"

—and it is to keep his personal secret inviolable.

After reading the above essay, and one still has doubts, then please read this below:

The fifth Imam, Muhammad al-Baqir, as every Imam after him, has declared, 'Our cause is difficult; it requires great effort; it can be espoused only by an Angel of the highest rank, a prophet who is sent (nabi mursal), or a faithful initiate (Shia, Momin) whose heart God has tested for its faith.' The sixth Imam, Ja'far al-Sadiq, specified further: 'Our cause is a secret (sirr) within a secret, a secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which may only be disclosed by another secret; a secret upon a secret which is supported by a secret.' And again: 'Our cause is the truth and the truth of truth (haqq al-haqq); it is the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric aspect of the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric (batin) aspect of the esoteric aspect. It is the secret, and the secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which is supported by a secret.' The significance of these remarks was already observed in a poem written by the fourth Imam, 'Ali Zayn al-'Abidin (d. 95/714): 'I conceal the jewels of my Knowledge—For fear that some ignorant man, on seeing the truth, should crush us O Lord! if I were to reveal one pearl of my gnosis—They would say to me: are you then a worshipper of idols?—And there would be Muslims who would see justice in the shedding of my blood!—They find abominable the most beautiful thing they are offered.' One could make many citations of a similar import. They testify most admirably to the ethos of Shiism, to the awareness it possesses of being the esotericism of Islam; and it is impossible, historically speaking, to go back further than the teachings of the Imams in seeking for the sources of Islamic esotericism. It is on this account that Shiites, in the true sense, are those who accept the secrets of the Imams. Conversely, all those who have sought or who seek to confine the teaching of the Imams to the exoteric (zahir) aspect—to questions of law and of ritual—mutilate the essence of Shiism.

Ya Ali Madad!

(salam)

i thought so! and thank you.

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(salam)

i thought so! and thank you.

This is why Al Jabira is named after our 6th Imams (as) deciple Jabir, who reached the station (maqam) of Salman. I feel proud to be Shia. May our 12th Imam (atf) inshallah teach us as did the 6th Imam (as) to his deciples in his time. In our age, it is our 12th Imam who has the divine Caliphate, even while in ghaybat, his Wilayat power is still active, whereby he still initiates those who are worthy through visions in dreams

I do not believe in mujtahids because only my Imam is my master, teacher, initiator, beloved, and Wali.

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This is why Al Jabira is named after our 6th Imams (as) deciple Jabir, who reached the station (maqam) of Salman. I feel proud to be Shia. May our 12th Imam (atf) inshallah teach us as did the 6th Imam (as) to his deciples in his time. In our age, it is our 12th Imam who has the divine Caliphate, even while in ghaybat, his Wilayat power is still active, whereby he still initiates those who are worthy through visions in dreams

I do not believe in mujtahids because only my Imam is my master, teacher, initiator, beloved, and Wali.

(salam)

Brother/Sister I am lost for words these days, and I agree. (I will need to read about this diciple) so thanks for sharing.

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This is for the real and true Shias, and not for those who are Usoolis:

Since the Walayah is superior to the prophecy of which it is the source, it follows that the person of the wali—that is to say the Imam—takes precedence over that of the Prophet; and the Imamate always has and always will take precedence over the prophetic mission. The exaltation of the Imam as the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil) to the supreme rank and, as a corollary to this, the decisive and definitive supremacy of the ta'wil—of, that is to say, esoteric (Batin)Islam over exoteric (Zahir) Islam, of the religion of the Resurrection (Qiyamat) over the religion of the Law (Shariat). This concept of the Imam is integral to the entire philosophy of mankind. Because the human Form is 'the image of the divine Form', it is par excellence invested with the theophanic function. It thereby assumes the function of cosmic salvation, because the return to the World beyond—the world of spiritual entities—is the transition to a state of existence in which everything takes the form of human reality, since it is the human being alone who possesses speech, the logos. Thus, it is through the instrumentality of Man that things rediscover the way back to the Origin. But this perfect human Form—this theophany disclosed in pre-eternity—is that of the Imam. To say that the Imam is the Man of God, Perfect Man, is to acknowledge him as the supreme instrument of soteriology. Likewise, soteriology is in itself conditioned by the tahqiq, the realization of the true meaning of all exoteric (zahir) forms, just as this realization is conditioned by the ta'wil, the function of the Imam. Once more, what this Imamology envisages essentially is not the empirical figure of any particular Imam, but the reality and the essence of an eternal Imam, of whom each Imam individually is the earthly exemplification. This is the eternal Imam to whom reference is made in the Quranic expression mawlana, 'our lord', or whom it is said that he always existed, exists and will exist. All the various versions of his Coming are relative to men's perception. In the divine pleroma {'alam-iKhuda) these mutations have no place. An immediate consequence of this is that knowledge of the Imam, of the Perfect Man (Insan-e Kamil), is the only knowledge of God possible to man, since the Imam is the initial theophany. In the phrase quoted above, as in all similar phrases, the speaker is the eternal Imam. 'Prophets pass and change. We are eternal Men.' 'I knew God before Heaven and Earth were created.' 'The light cast by the lamp is not the lamp itself; but if this light did not exist, how would one know what the lamp is, or even whether or not there is a lamp and where it is?' 'The Men of God are not God himself; nevertheless, they are inseparable from God.' Because the Imamate is the primordial theophany, the revelation of the divine Abyss and the guide towards this Revelation, the Imam is the supreme hujjah (proof), the guarantor who answers for the unknowable divinity. This is stated in the great sermon preached by the Imam Hasan 'a/a dhikrihi al-salam, on the 8th August 1164 CE, when he proclaimed the Great Resurrection at Alamut:'Mawlana (our lord) is the Resurrector (qa'im al-qiyama); he is the lord of beings; he is the lord who is the absolute act of being [al-wujud al-mutlaq); he excludes all existential determination, for he transcends them all; he opens up the threshold of his Mercy, and through the light of his Knowledge he causes all beings to see, hear and speak for all eternity'. Only the eternal Imam, as a theophany, makes possible an ontology: since he is the revealed one, he is being as such. He is the absolute Person, the eternal divine Face (chahrah-'i Khuda in Persian), the supreme divine Attribute and supreme Name of God. In his earthly form he is the epiphany of the supreme Word (mazhar-i kalimah-'i a 'la), the Bringer of Truth in every age (muhiqq-i vaqt), the manifestation of Eternal Man who manifests the Face of God. A second consequence is that for man, knowledge of self presupposes knowledge of the Imam. On the basis of the statement of the fourth Imam that 'Knowledge of God is knowledge of the Imam', our texts repeat: 'He who dies without having known his Imam, dies the death of the oblivious'. The reason for this may be sought in the specific interpretation given to the maxim repeated by all Islamic spirituals: 'He who knows himself knows his Lord, that is to say, he knows his Imam.' this is the knowledge that was promised by the first Imam: 'Be faithful to me, and I will make you as similar to myself as Salman.' It emerges from these texts that knowledge of God, of the Imam and of the self are aspects of one and the same fundamental, liberating knowledge, of the same gnosis. This is the reason why the Persian texts of the tradition of Alamut emphasize the four possible ways of knowing the Imam. 'One may possess knowledge of his person in its physical form—a knowledge of which even animals are capable. One may possess knowledge of his official name and of his earthly genealogy—a knowledge to which even his enemies have access. There is the knowledge which recognizes his Imamate—a knowledge shared by all the members of the da'wah. Finally, there is the knowledge of his Essence according to the eternal reality of his attributes—a knowledge, that is, which presupposes a transcendence of all other modes of knowing. Such knowledge dazzles the soul, and is the privilege of the hujjah.' Likewise, there is a quadruple line of descent relative to the Imam, as follows: according to the flesh; in the spiritual sense; according both to the flesh and in the spiritual sense; and, lastly, according to the flesh, the spiritual sense and the eternal reality of his essence. The Imam's purely spiritual descendant (farzand-i ma'nawi) is the hujjah—a status which has its archetype in Salman the Persian, and which, according to the promise of the Imam, is exemplified in every faithful initiate. With the promotion of the hujjah to the highest rank, the entire traditional hierarchy is modified. It is Imamology and the philosophy of resurrection. One can speak here of a radical shift. It is always the case that the hierarchy of the hudud denotes their respective degree of proximity to the Imam. But now the meaning of this hierarchy tends to become more interior, and 'the limits' indicate rather the degrees of 'conformity with the Imam' that correspond to stages in the progress of one's inner consciousness. The ta'wil makes the hierocosmos {the esoteric hierarchical brotherhood) symbolize with the microcosm. The consequence of this is a fall in the rank assigned to the natiq, the prophet who proclaims a Law, and a different appreciation of the cycle of prophecy. Both these are corollaries of the elevation of the rank of hujjah. The predominance of the syzygy Prophet-Imam is replaced by that of the Imam and his hujjah. In later Twelver Shiite theosophy, the mission of the prophet of Islam marked the full noonday hour {the equilibrium between zahir and batin). Shortly after began the decline towards evening, the return into the night of esotericism, the cycle of the pure walayah. In early Twelver Shiite theosophy, the entry of the haqiqah—the pure spiritual religion—into the night of esotericism began not with Muhammad, Seal of prophets, but with the very first prophet, Adam, who initiated our present cycle of occultation—that is to say, it began with the beginnings of present humanity. Early Twelver Shiaism pessimism confronts this radical disaster with its entire philosophy of Resurrection (Qiyamat), with its revolt, even, against the shari'ah. The six great periods of 'legislative prophecy' are always seen as the hexaemeron, the 'six days' of the creation of the religious cosmos or hierocosmos, each 'day' being counted as a 'millennium'. But in point of fact, the six 'days' are the night of divine religion the night of the Imam, because during these six days the literal Law or shari'ah of the legislative prophets is the veil hiding the reality (Haqq), hiding the sun of the Imam. Just as the sun is replaced by the moon in illuminating the night, the Imam is replaced by him who is his hujjah, his proof or guarantor (his 'Salman'). Knowledge of the Imam in his true Essence will only become manifest on the seventh day, that is, on the day after the still-continuing hexaemeron. Only the seventh day will truly partake of the nature of day, that on which the sun shines forth {the yawm al-qiyamah or day of the Resurrection). Within the context of this vision of things, the drop in rank of the prophet-legislator needs no explanation. Whereas in laterTwelver Imamism, as in Fatimid Ismailism, he ranked first (being the earthly homologue of the First Intelligence), in the early Twelver Imamism he ranks third. It seems, indeed, that in this the Imamology of early Twelver Imamism merely reproduces an order of precedence that existed in pre-Mujtahid Usoolism, one represented by the order of succession of the three symbolic letters 'ayn {'Ali, the Imam), sin (Salman, Gabriel, the hujjah), and mim (Muhammad, the Prophet). The Prophet, in fact, in his capacity as a natiq—the annunciator of a shari'ah—has the rank and function of a da'i who 'convokes' men towards the Imam who is the secret meaning of the shari'ah he annunciates. This is why each prophet, at the beginning of his vocation as da'i, has gone to meet the hujjah of the Imam of his time, who stands in the same relation to him as Khidr-Elijah, Moses' prophet-initiator, stood to Moses. (In the Early Twelver Shiite exegesis of the history of the prophets, Paradise for Adam, the ark for Noah, the Burning Bush for Moses, Mary for Jesus, and Salman for Muhammad are all interpreted as figurations of the meeting with the hujjah.) Every initiate in his turn follows the example of the prophet- da'i and advances towards the same encounter, towards spiritual union with the hujjah: they become gnostics ('arif) who share in the same gnosis. This is the meaning of the Imam's promise to his disciple when he tells him that he will make him as similar to himself as Salman. The Imam stands in the same relation to his hujjah as the creative Esto to the first Intelligence. Such is the privileged situation of the hujjah, of all those whose archetype is Salman: those of whom it is said that from the very beginning the spiritual essence [ma'na) of each of their persons is the same as the Imam's (whence comes the fourth of the modes of knowledge and filiation described above). 'To be promoted to the rank of hujjah' is to exemplify in one's own person the case of Salman, to attain to the 'Salman of your being'—the 'Salman of the microcosm', as it is called in the ancient treatise Umm al-Kitab, which we cited above. With regard to the secret of such an attainment, the following few lines may perhaps yield the supreme message of Ismaili philosophy: 'The Imam has said: I am with my friends wherever they seek me, on the mountain, in the plain and in the desert. The man to whom I have revealed my Essence, that is to say the mystical knowledge of myself, has no further need of my physical proximity. And this is the Great Resurrection.' The texts of the early Twelver tradition of our Masooms show us both the way in which Imamology fructifies in mystical experience, and how it presupposes such an experience. The conjunction of Twelver Imamism and Sufism, which took place after the time of the Mongol invasion, refers us to the as yet unsolved problem of origins. If we agree with the Shiite spirituals that Sunni Sufism is something which, by endowing the Prophet alone with the attributes of the Imam and thereby making the walayah into an Imamology without an Imam, parted company with Shiism at a given moment,then the early Twelver Imamia does no more than restore the old order of things. Hence its importance for all Shiite Sufism after this period, as well as for the entire cultural field whose language was Persian. We have just seen how the replacement of the pair Nabi-Imam by the pair Imam-hujjah reflects the process of mystical interiorization. In a commentary on Mahmud al-Shabistari's 'Rosary of Mystery' by an anonymous Irfani writer, the unio mystica of the Imam and the hujjah is mediated in the magnificent symbol of the olive tree growing at the top of Mount Sinai (Quran 95:1-2). There are two mountains, the mountain of intelligence and the mountain of love. In his meditation on the secret of the earthly human Form, in which is concealed the love of the 'hidden Treasure which longed to be known', the mystical pilgrim discovers that his own person, like that of Moses, is the Sinai at the summit (or the heart) of which is revealed the theophanic Form of the eternal Imam. Upon this summit, or within this sanctuary, the 'Soul of the soul' is revealed to the soul as the mystical olive tree which stands on the invisible heights of the Sinai of love. The pilgrim must climb the Sinai of love, which is higher than the mountain of Intelligence; for although the intellect is the guide leading to the secret of the theophany, it is also the guide who ultimately steps aside, like Virgil in the presence of Beatrice. As we have seen, in performing this inner pilgrimage the disciple does no more than repeat the initial step of each prophet in search of the Imam. To reach the summit of the Sinai of his soul is, for the mystic, to realize the state of Salman the Pure, of the hujjah: it is to attain to the Soul of the soul (jan-i jan). This Soul is the Imam, the olive tree growing on the top of the Sinai of love; and the soul of the mystic is this very love, since the Sinai is the Sinai of his being. Thus, what the soul discovers at the summit, or the heart, of her being is the Imam as the eternal beloved. The syzygy of the Imam and his hujjah becomes the inner dialogue between the Beloved and the Lover. The Soul of his soul is her to whom he is able to say thou, it is his 'I' in the second person. As it was for Moses on Sinai, in the presence of the Soul of his soul, the 'Moses of his being', his 'I' in the first person, is obliterated. In contemplating herself in the Soul of the soul, the soul becomes the object of contemplation of the Soul of the soul, and this latter, in its place and time, utters the words: Ego sum Deus. In this manner the famous pronouncement of al-Hallaj (ana al-haqq), repeated over the centuries by the Sufis, acquires a truly Shiite flavour. Imamology frees it from the trap of transcendental monism, which created so many problems for reflexive thought. 3. Ultimately, the mystical experience of the Sufis encompasses a metaphysic which baffles both the dialectic of philosophers pure and simple, and that of the theologians of the kalam. It will be clear, from what has been said here, that there is yet another form of metaphysics in Islam, without which it may be impossible to explain the beginnings and the development of Sufism. This other form is essentially the Shiite gnosis which goes back to the Imams themselves.

In conclusion, the mediator who is a necessary condition of Shiite prophetology is technically known as hujjah (the proof, God's guarantee to men). Nevertheless, idea and function transcend the limits of any particular epoch: the presence of the hujjah needs to be continuous, even if it is an invisible presence to which the majority of men are oblivious. If, therefore, the term is applied to the Prophet, it is in turn applied even more emphatically to the Imams. (In the hierarchy of early Twelver Imamiya, the hujjah becomes in some sense a spiritual double of the Imam) The idea of the hujjah thus already presupposes the inseparability of prophetology from Imamology; and because it transcends time, it originates in a metaphysical reality, the vision of which takes us back to the gnostic theme of the celestial Anthropos.

This variant, for example, emanates from the Imam: "Salman is one of us, the members of the House (Salman minna, Ahl al-Bayt), a Sun of the divine Light, an integral part of ourselves. The heart of the True Believer is the Light of God; no one measures his measure, for the True Believer is forever living in the two universes." Or yet again: "Salman is part of myself, and I myself am part of Salman." In primitive Shiism, or more precisely in early Twelver Imamiya, this assumption of Salman is reflected in the speculations developed around the three symbolic letters 'AYN, SIN, MIM, typifying respectively the Imam, Salman the Adopted One (his Spiritual Child), and the Prophet. The "Book of the Glorious One" of Jabir ibn Hayyan starts from these highly abstruse speculations. The apotheosis of Salman show him as archetype of the True Believer, as the Adopted One, the Spiritual Child, exemplifying the bond between the True Believer and the Imam. Amir Al-Momineen states, "Consecrate to me thy devotion and thy knowledge, and thou wilt become, as Salman, like unto me." "To become as Salman" is to become oneself a Hujjat, the Imam's Proof and Adopted One, and thereby to become "like unto the Imam"; such is the ultimate metamorphosis to which the initiate will aspire. Thus Salman the Mazdean, then the Christian, the Exile in "Quest" of the True Prophet, then the Spiritual Child of the Imam who solemnly attests his "adoption," has become the "Threshold"; so will it be with all the "Salmans," with every soul that exemplifies his case; each one, as a very ancient text declares, becomes the "Salman of the microcosmos." Like Salman, Jabir can become (or rather, becomes) the Hujjat, the mirror in which is revealed (mazhar) the Imam. For this the Imam must be epiphanized to him, must become "manifest" (zahir) to him in a vision which is not that of the senses. But to have this vision is to assume in oneself the light of the Imam, it is to become oneself the mirror in which he reveals himself. Thus the circle is closed. For what thou seest is the part that the measure of thy being can assume, carry, conceive). Then too, the Imam becomes "through thee" what he is in relation to the Hiidden God: he is the mirror that reveals (mazhar) him, because God is for him and through him the Manifested One for and through Salman, in the measure in which Salman-Jabir, as he to whom the Imam manifests himself (zahir), is thereby the place and form of his Manifestation (mazhar): he is his "coming into this world". In other words, the hidden godhead stands in the same relation to the Imam as the Imam to Salman. And this is the epiphanic mediation of the eternal Imam. To achieve the capacity for this vision is the supreme metamorphosis: it is to become the pure mirror in which the epiphanies are accomplished. It is to be the "Salman of the microcosm," to be at the end of the "Quest for the Imam"

—and it is to keep his personal secret inviolable.

After reading the above essay, and one still has doubts, then please read this below:

The fifth Imam, Muhammad al-Baqir, as every Imam after him, has declared, 'Our cause is difficult; it requires great effort; it can be espoused only by an Angel of the highest rank, a prophet who is sent (nabi mursal), or a faithful initiate (Shia, Momin) whose heart God has tested for its faith.' The sixth Imam, Ja'far al-Sadiq, specified further: 'Our cause is a secret (sirr) within a secret, a secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which may only be disclosed by another secret; a secret upon a secret which is supported by a secret.' And again: 'Our cause is the truth and the truth of truth (haqq al-haqq); it is the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric aspect of the exoteric aspect, and the esoteric (batin) aspect of the esoteric aspect. It is the secret, and the secret of something which remains hidden, a secret which is supported by a secret.' The significance of these remarks was already observed in a poem written by the fourth Imam, 'Ali Zayn al-'Abidin (d. 95/714): 'I conceal the jewels of my Knowledge—For fear that some ignorant man, on seeing the truth, should crush us O Lord! if I were to reveal one pearl of my gnosis—They would say to me: are you then a worshipper of idols?—And there would be Muslims who would see justice in the shedding of my blood!—They find abominable the most beautiful thing they are offered.' One could make many citations of a similar import. They testify most admirably to the ethos of Shiism, to the awareness it possesses of being the esotericism of Islam; and it is impossible, historically speaking, to go back further than the teachings of the Imams in seeking for the sources of Islamic esotericism. It is on this account that Shiites, in the true sense, are those who accept the secrets of the Imams. Conversely, all those who have sought or who seek to confine the teaching of the Imams to the exoteric (zahir) aspect—to questions of law and of ritual—mutilate the essence of Shiism.

Ya Ali Madad!

Ya ALI MADAD,

I completely agree with all this. I dare anyone call themselves Imam or let others call him Imam (like Khomeini), when the title of IMAM are only reserved for our Twelve Imams ending with our Imam-e-Zaman (Imam of the Age). My Amirul Momeneen, Mowla Ali (as) will not have mercy on those who fallow the school (maktab) of the Usoolis . Im sorry to tell you all this, but it is the TRUTH and I must speak the Truth when my life is not in danger. This is why I love Shia Chat because I am safe from the nasibis.

Also, taqleed to any other than our 14 Masooms is deception by Shayton. Please Brothers and Sisters, do not be tricked by those who take the appearence of being Shia because the true Shias fallow the example of our 12th Imam only and wait patiently to be Illuminated by the Luminous Light of our Imam-e-Zaman in their Hearts. The 12th Imam is only hidden to the enemies and to all those who still do taqleed to a fallible man called Mujtahed. I do taqleed to an INFALLIBLE IMAM named the Qaim, The Mahdi, the Imame-Zaman etc...

Edited by Ahlulbayt1212

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the title of IMAM are only reserved for our Twelve Imams ending with our Imam-e-Zaman (Imam of the Age). My Amirul Momeneen,

(bismillah)

Allah says in Quran (2:124):

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

---------

If the title of IMAM is reserved for 12 Imams only, than why does Quran calls Ibrahim (as) an Imam?????

The 12th Imam is only hidden to the enemies and to all those who still do taqleed to a fallible man called Mujtahed. I do taqleed to an INFALLIBLE IMAM named the Qaim, The Mahdi, the Imame-Zaman etc...

Are you claiming that you are in contact with Imam Mahdi (ATF) since he is not hidden from you. And he answers your questions and problems since you are in his Taqlid?????

In that case, can we ask a few questions and you could bring us answers directly from him?

:yaali:

Edited by Orion

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(bismillah)

Allah says in Quran (2:124):

وَإِذِ ابْتَلَى إِبْرَاهِيمَ رَبُّهُ بِكَلِمَاتٍ فَأَتَمَّهُنَّ قَالَ إِنِّي جَاعِلُكَ لِلنَّاسِ إِمَامًا قَالَ وَمِن ذُرِّيَّتِي قَالَ لاَ يَنَالُ عَهْدِي الظَّالِمِينَ

---------

If the title of IMAM is reserved for 12 Imams only, than why does Quran calls Ibrahim (as) an Imam?????

Are you claiming that you are in contact with Imam Mahdi (ATF) since he is not hidden from you. And he answers your questions and problems since you are in his Taqlid?????

In that case, can we ask a few questions and you could bring us answers directly from him?

:yaali:

First, Hazrat Adam (pbuh) , Hazrat Ibrahim (pbuh), etc... are entitled to being imam; however, after the last Prophet who came on Earth, (Prophet Muhammad) who is the Seal Of all Prophets, there came our Beloved 12 Imams which means no one can dare to be called Imam AFTER our 12 Imams. The 12th Imam is the SEAL of WILAYAT , just as our Prophet Muhammad is the Seal of Prophethood (as stated earlier). Consequently, the concept of Wilayat-e Faqih is a perversion (deviation) of the TRUE WILAYAT which ONLY belongs to the SEAL of Wilayat who is our Beloved Imam-e-Zaman (The 12th and Last IMAM).

Second, in answer to your second question when you asked, "are you claiming that you are in contact with Imam Mahdi (ATF) since he is not hidden from you. And he answers your questions and problems since you are in his Taqlid????? In that case, can we ask a few questions and you could bring us answers directly from him?" My reply to you Mr. Orion is that you are not worthy. Imam Baqir (as) has stated, " The WORTH of every man is his MARIFAT." And Im sorry to tell you this Mr. Orion, but you have no true Marifat of our Mowla Ali (as) or any other of our Beloved Masoomeen. All you have is Blind Faith or taqleed to fallible men that you call Mujtaheds who will not be able to save you from the Hell Fire that awaits you.

YA Ali Madad

Edited by Ahlulbayt1212

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First, Hazrat Adam (pbuh) , Hazrat Ibrahim (pbuh), etc... are entitled to being imam;

So now you have corrected your statement. Good!

however, after the last Prophet who came on Earth, (Prophet Muhammad) who is the Seal Of all Prophets, there came our Beloved 12 Imams which means no one can dare to be called Imam AFTER our 12 Imams.

Since I have some akhbarism in me, provide evidence of your claim from sahih hadith that it is prohibited to use "Imam" for anyone else. (and do it without any comment or interpretation)

The 12th Imam is the SEAL of WILAYAT , just as our Prophet Muhammad is the Seal of Prophethood (as stated earlier). Consequently, the concept of Wilayat-e Faqih is a perversion (deviation) of the TRUE WILAYAT which ONLY belongs to the SEAL of Wilayat who is our Beloved Imam-e-Zaman (The 12th and Last IMAM).

The concept of Wilayat-e Faqih (WF) is not a deviation because its part of the chain of Wilayat. WF is the servant of the Imam (ATF).

My reply to you Mr. Orion is that you are not worthy. Imam Baqir as.gif has stated, " The WORTH of every man is his MARIFAT." And Im sorry to tell you this Mr. Orion, but you have no true Marifat of our Mowla Ali as.gif or any other of our Beloved Masoomeen. All you have is Blind Faith or taqleed to fallible men that you call Mujtaheds who will not be able to save you from the Hell Fire that awaits you.

^^ SubhanAllah. So now you are claiming that you know Ilm al-Ghaib. You can read what is in someones heart and can measure "Marifat" over the internet.

:unsure:

Edited by Orion

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So now you have corrected your statement. Good!

Since I have some akhbarism in me, provide evidence of your claim from sahih hadith that it is prohibited to use "Imam" for anyone else. (and do it without any comment or interpretation)

The concept of Wilayat-e Faqih (WF) is not a deviation because its part of the chain of Wilayat. WF is the servant of the Imam (ATF).

^^ SubhanAllah. So now you are claiming that you know Ilm al-Ghaib. You can read what is in someones heart and can measure "Marifat" over the internet.

:unsure:

Salam 'Alaykum & Ya Ali Madad

Some questions for you (and indeed anyone else):

Can you please point me to where the exact words Wilayaat e Faqih are mentioned in classical Imamiyya texts?

Where is outlined the methodology to ascertain which person is the WeF at any given time?

Who was the first WeF after the larger occulation of Our Glorious 12th Imam (ATF) commenced?

Can there be more than one WeF at the same time?

Lastly, who had this title just prior to Khumayni sahib?

Thanks in advance!

ALI

Edited by Kismet110

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Ya Ali Madad

(bismillah)

Could you point to me where the exact words "Ya Ali Madad" mentioned in hadith?

Can you please point me to where the exact words Wilayaat e Faqih are mentioned in classical Imamiyya texts?

Wilayat means guardianship AND Faqih means a qualified religious scholar.

Waly al-Faqih (WF) means guardianship of a qualified scholar.

There are several hadith that point to the fact that Faqih are our guardians. See Link.

In the broader sense all pious and qualified scholars are our Waley (guardians). In the specific seance that you have asked, WF is used for the head of an Islamic government.

Where is outlined the methodology to ascertain which person is the WeF at any given time?

The methodology is same as the one to find and follow the most qualified faqih.

Who was the first WeF after the larger occulation of Our Glorious 12th Imam (ATF) commenced?

Can there be more than one WeF at the same time?

Lastly, who had this title just prior to Khumayni sahib?

WF is not a title. Its a position of responsibility.

All pious and qualified scholars are and were our Waley (guardians). So you can scan though history and make a list of all qualified fuqha in Shia school. They all had Wilayat over the Ummah. And anyone of them could stand up (in the right environment) to establish a society according to the teachings of Ahlul Bait (as).

Different Fuqha could assume different responsibilities and exercise their wilayat. And in case of disagreement, the verdict of the most qualified faqih (in that particular issue) should be followed.

WS

Edited by Orion

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