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YaHu

[MERGED] Taqleed To A Mujtahed?

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Can anyone tell me how much of this stuff Baqir Nisar Zaidi also believes in? Because it's quite scary to think that this is where YaHu is getting his information, seeing as Baqir Zaidi is a popular author. How many more poor misguided souls are there out there who have been influenced by these kinds of teachings?

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(salam)

Yahu, You claim to be a twelver. But none of us (twelver) believe in what you posted. Shias don't believe that Ali is Allah (astagfirullah). That is pure shirk, unforgiven sin.

salam.gif

Brother orion you are giving him too much attention. He will not rest untill he pastes everything that baqir nisar zaidi has ever written.

Who is Baqir Nisar Zaidi?

..Never mind, I just figure it out

Edited by Zareen

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(bismillah)

(salam)

مَا كَانَ لِبَشَرٍ أَنْ يُؤْتِيَهُ اللَّهُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحُكْمَ وَالنُّبُوَّةَ ثُمَّ يَقُولَ لِلنَّاسِ كُونُوا عِبَادًا لِي مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلَٰكِنْ كُونُوا رَبَّانِيِّينَ بِمَا كُنْتُمْ تُعَلِّمُونَ الْكِتَابَ وَبِمَا كُنْتُمْ تَدْرُسُونَ

It is not for a mortal that God should give him the Book and the wisdom and prophethood, then he should say to men: Be my servants rather than God's; but rather (he would say): Be worshippers of the Lord because of your teaching the Book and your reading (it yourselves) (3:79)

وَلَا يَأْمُرَكُمْ أَن تَتَّخِذُوا الْمَلَائِكَةَ وَالنَّبِيِّينَ أَرْبَابًا ۗ أَيَأْمُرُكُم بِالْكُفْرِ بَعْدَ إِذْ أَنتُم مُّسْلِمُونَ

And neither would he enjoin you that you should take the angels and the prophets for lords; what! would he enjoin you with unbelief after you are Muslims? (3:80)

was salam

Edited by lotfilms

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(salam)

So what do you think about this quote?

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘The ignorant is one who considers himself knowledgeable about what he is [in actual fact] ignorant of, and he is content with his own opinion. His attachment to scholars only increases his estrangement [from knowledge] since he is constantly finding fault with them. He deems invalid the views of those who oppose him, and that which he does not understand he sees as fallacious. If he comes across something that he does not know, he denies it and falsifies it saying, ‘I have never heard of this!’ or ‘I do not see it as possible! or ‘How can it be!’ or ‘Where is this from?’ This is due to his confidence in his own opinion and the paucity of his awareness of his own ignorance.

For this reason he is attached to what he sees as beneficial from his own mistaken opinion, and as a consequence, denies the truth, remains confused in his own ignorance and too proud to seek knowledge.’[Tuhaf al-`Uqoul, no. 73]

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘The ambition of the foolish is to report [traditions] whereas the ambition of the scholars is to understand the traditions.’[bihar al-Anwar, v. 2, p. 160, no. 13]

Imam Ali (as) said, ‘Do you like it for Allah and His Messenger to be called liars?! Then transmit to the people only that which they understand and withhold that which they [i.e. their intellects] reject.’[bihar al-Anwar, v. 2, p. 77, no. 60]

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(bismillah)

Shia books of hadith are just collections of hadith of all kinds. Its left up to the scholars to look at each hadith to determine which one is correct and which is not. Many of the things quoted by Yahu are written in some not so common books. Majority of Shia are unaware of these books and hadith. Also they dont hold any such beliefs about Imam Ali (as). Having said that from time to time you will meet someone who does hold these beliefs. But again, its a rare.

However, some of the things he has written can be explained.

For example Humans are Ashraf al-Makhluqat, which means superior to or better than all His creations.

Also Allah has made all his creations subservient to humans:

Ãóáóãú ÊóÑóæúÇ Ãóäøó Çááøóåó ÓóÎøóÑó áóßõã ãøóÇ Ýöí ÇáÓøóãóÇæóÇÊö æóãóÇ Ýöí ÇáúÃóÑúÖö æóÃóÓúÈóÛó Úóáóíúßõãú äöÚóãóåõ ÙóÇåöÑóÉð æóÈóÇØöäóÉð æóãöäó ÇáäøóÇÓö ãóä íõÌóÇÏöáõ Ýöí Çááøóåö ÈöÛóíúÑö Úöáúãò æóáóÇ åõÏðì æóáóÇ ßöÊóÇÈò ãøõäöíÑò

031.020

YUSUFALI: Do ye not see that Allah has subjected to your (use) all things in the heavens and on earth, and has made his bounties flow to you in exceeding measure, (both) seen and unseen? Yet there are among men those who dispute about Allah, without knowledge and without guidance, and without a Book to enlighten them!

PICKTHAL: See ye not how Allah hath made serviceable unto you whatsoever is in the skies and whatsoever is in the earth and hath loaded you with His favours both without and within? Yet of mankind is he who disputeth concerning Allah, without knowledge or guidance or a scripture giving light.

SHAKIR: Do you not see that Allah has made what is in the heavens and what is in the earth subservient to you, and made complete to you His favors outwardly and inwardly? And among men is he who disputes in respect of Allah though having no knowledge nor guidance, nor a book giving light.

Therefore one can safely say that the most pious humans like Prophets and Imams are superior to all creations like all humans, jinns, angels, etc. And Allah has made them subservient to them.

In this context it will not be wrong to say that Allah has made all things in heaven and earth subservient to Rasool Allah (S) who is the best creation of Allah and Imam Ali (A) after him.

WS

Edited by Orion

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I'm no longer surprised by the weird sorts of extreme, cultish belief systems people will stumble around to these days. It's a sign of the times, the confusion and the turbulence. People realizing the established structures of the community are not quite succeeding in meeting the needs of the members of the community. As a result, different extremist kooks, whether with intention to mislead or just because of sincere but misled belief in some weird personal ideology, opportunistic individuals step in to promise "the real answer" that everyone else is either missing or hiding.

The truth is that Islam lies in moderation, balance, and multi-facetedness. There's a legal aspect, a spiritual awakenement aspect, a social aspect, and ethical aspect, a political aspect, an economic aspect, an aspect of solid, timeless foundation and adaptive, flexible changing. It's not just founded on one single thing (Other than tawhid, I guess, but even that is multifaceted), and if someone tries to tell you it is, they are pushing someone's distorted agenda.

Also beware those who say the fate of all our souls rests on an elitist grasping of some secret, hidden knowledge. This is gnostic heresy. There is such a thing as different levels of knowledge, including various levels of the esoteric, but the notion that God will condemn most people for not reaching hidden insights He only gives to a gifted few makes a mockery of Divine Justice.

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The Occultation

The 12th Hidden Imam (atf) is not only alive but his being has never stopped exercising its active, effective influence on the world. This influence is not an abstraction or just a metaphysical concept; on the contrary, it is and must be concrete. And it is so because it is exercised through a certain number of flesh-and-blood persons called Friends of the Hidden Imam (dustan-e Imam-I ghaib). This doctrine can be considered a kind of hermeneutics (tawil) of the hidden Imam’s occult presence and influence in the world. There is Tawhid, Nubuwwa, and lasly Wilayat (in which the friends of the hidden Imam have their hearts illuminated by Wilayat-e Ali in the form of Light). Imam Zamana (ajf) is the absolute only one who is responsible regarding all matters concerning the ummah regardless of whether or not He

is or is not in ghayabat In Kamal ul Deen wa Tamam Nayma page no 461, Imam

Zamana (ajf) says in His Toqih Mubarak,“You think Allah has not created any wasila

(intercessor) between Himself and His creation. It is not like this. The command of Allah

will continue to be revealed until the day of judgment. They will continue to guide.” Therefore, the person who is in charge of the whole system of the universe is none other than our Imam (ajf). As you know, Imam (ajf) is a ruler and Olil Amr (Absolute Master). His job is to establish order. His orders are practically imposed through His servants and slaves. The angels are also included amongst His servants. The whole network of Imam (ajf) is working upon this earth. Both shia and sunni believe in the ideology of an underground government. In this network, akhyar, abdal, abrar, otad, najba, naqba, and qutub etc (names which are associated with saints and arifs) are included in this underground network and are included in the Army of Imam Zamana (ajf). Without ever actually meeting Imam Zamana (ajf) with their physical eyes (but they see Him with the eyes of their heart in the form of Noor), they are the ones who are running this world by the orders of Imam Zamana (ajf). When Imam (ajf) will reappear, this same network will rule over this world in the open. In other words, The pillars of profession of Imamite faith are God’s unicity (Tawhid), the mission of the prophets (Nubuwwat), the mission of the Imams (Imamat) and lastly the mission of the Shiites (al-Shia) or the allied saints (awliya) or friends (dustan) of the Hidden Imam; that is, the true Shiites, those initiated into the Imams’ esoteric (baten) teachings, the most worthy of whom are in spiritual relation with the Hidden Imam. In other words, the purpose of creation is knowledge (marifat), the living and lived knowledge of the mysteries of God, man, and the laws that govern the world. The existence of the Four Pillars and the dialectical relation connecting them to each other are determined by this alive knowledge. The reality of devine unicity (tawheed) is the mystery of mysteries. The essential purpose of the prophets’ mission was to guide men on the path to understanding this mystery. The Imams’ mission consists in making the reality (haqiqat) of the prophetic message known. Finally, because the Occultation is a realized fact and the knowledge must remain alive, the purpose of the initiated (al-Shia) is to make the reality of the Imams’ teachings known and thereby alive. Thus, the existence of this corps of initiates is absolutely necessary in the economy of the sacred; without it, all humanity would lose the transcendental meaning of its being and sink into the darkness of impious ignorance.

These group of sages are termed Rijal al- ghayb (men of the mystery). They are themselves invisible in the sense that as companions of the Hidden Imam their spiritual rank and real activities are hidden from all. The exact number of these men is not known. The sources specify only that they belong to two main categories: the Chiefs (naqib, pl. nuqaba) and the Nobles (najib pl. nujaba). The Chiefs (Nuqaba) are the holders of Sacred Power; they intervene in an occult way in the affairs of the world to prevent ignorance-bred injustice and violence from entirely invading the earth. The Nobles (Nujaba) on the other hand have no earthly power but rather the holders of Sacred Knowledge, and their function is to safeguard and transmit initiatory science. This hierarchy is occult (hidden) because humanity is going through a long cycle of ignorance and violence. If the Friends (Awliya) of the Hidden Imam are incognito, this is because men have lost the “organs” necessary to recognize them. And this itself is a sign of devine wisdom, because otherwise the Friends (Awliya) would either be persecuted or confused with the external powers that organize any human community socially and politically. Still nothing prevents the members of this hierarchy from revealing their true function to certain rare individuals worthy of such a revelation. The Nuqaba and Nujaba secretly direct men toward knowledge of the reality of the Hideen Imam. Imam Ali (as) speaks of a group of rare, undiscoverable holy men who are as many signs and proofs of God’s existence on earth. In Kamal ul Deen wa Tamam ul Nayma page no. 635, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) said, “I am seeing Imam ul Qaim (ajf) sat upon the mimbar of Kufa. His 313 companions are gathered around Him. The numbers of His companions are equal to the companions of Badr. These companions are the companions of Wilayat, and they will be the rulers upon the creation by the order of Allah.” A poem by Arif Muhammad Karim Khan summs up this idea very well:

When God saw people’s ignorance/ He chose a group of sages.

He manifested them amidst the masses/ And He initiated them into the Science of the Imam.

So they will reveal true Government/ And thereby put an end to polemic and enmities.

Through charisma (keramat), some are Chiefs (leaders)/ Through dignity, others are Nobles

Through their power, the group of Chiefs replaces the Imam like a delegate;

Their Power is the power of God/ They make anyone they wish obey.

The reign of the sovereigns of being is the sign of their reign in both Worlds.

The group of Nobles are all Sages and Guides for the community and guardians of Faith (iman).

Dispensers of science in this world and arbiters of judgements in the other world.

Our Imam e Zamana (ajf)‟s reappearance is very near because almost all

of the signs of His reappearance have already taken place. InshaAllah He will

reappear very soon. Are we really ready to provide Him support and be His true

helpers? Can we even face Him? Will we try to convince Him we are worthy

through the showing off of how many prayers we have read? Will He not ask of

us that His Grandfather has already told everyone that anyone who dies without

having the marifat(recognition) of the Imam of His Time will die the death of an

ignorant, disbeliever, and hypocrite? Will He not ask us how much did we

struggle to gain His marifat? Keep this in your mind that marifat is related to

belief. If your belief is right, then the door of marifat will open for you. If you have

wrong beliefs, then it does not matter how much you pray, how many books you

read, or how much of an expert you are in Arabic grammar, the truth will always be hidden from you. If you do not gain the marifat of this truth, then you

will never be able to gain paradise. It is necessary to understand religion through

intellect and principles instead of through blind following. Moula Ali (as) said , “

There will come a time when the truth will be spread into many different places

and the momins have to go in search of this truth and collect it himself.” It is our

duty to not limit ourselves to only one way of gaining knowledge such as simply

following a scholar or reading only a few books. We have to search for truth and

when we find it, we must accept it as truth. We should not create doubts about

this truth. Whenever you find something which goes against your beliefs, do not

reject it by saying “Oh this must have been an invention (bidah) and something

which was added to the religion”. By doing this, you are not using your intellect

in the proper manner. The end result will be that you fall into kufr (disbelief).

If someone loses his eyes and ears in an accident, then he will be unable to see Imam (ajf). Does it then mean he will never be able to gain the marifat of Imam (ajf)?

Marifat is not related to the physical capabilities of humans. It is related with the spiritual side of humanity. Ameerul Momineen (as) said, “I saw Allah with the eyes of My heart not the eyes of My head”. If marifat could be gained through the physical appearance of Imams (as), then the people who were present during the times of RasoolAllah (saw) and Masoomeen (as) not only saw Them but also saw with their own eyes the miracles being performed by Ahlul Bayt (as). These people should have a great level of marifat, but we see except for a relatively few people all others remained kafir (disbeliever), munafiq (hypocrite), and munkeer (disbeliever) despite having seen RasoolAllah (saw) and Aimmah (as) with their own eyes. Ziarat of Imam (ajf) means we must purify our nafs from worldly filths, and our full attention must be turned towards our Imam (ajf). We kill our worldly desires and ask Allah with total sincerity to be able to meet our Imam (ajf). Then we will be able to see and there will never be even a single moment when we do not remember our Imam (ajf). Regardless of what we are doing, our full attention will be towards Imam (ajf). The rays of the noor of Imam (ajf) will directly touch our heart and encompass our whole body. This is the ziarat of Imam Zamana (ajf) and this is the marifat of Imam Zamana (ajf). Those sacred people who saw Masoomeen (as) and gained Their marifat did not achieve this by physically seeing Them. Those who saw Them physically remained as

blind.

Moula Ali (as) begins His Sermon of Rajat in this way, “I have appeared

numerous times before, and will reappear many times more.” This is why the

reappearance of Imam Zamana (ajfs) is considered as the reappeance of Moula Ali

(as).

Najul Israr First Edition page 59, Moula Ali (as) says, “I am the one who will lead

Isa (as) in prayer and I can come in whatever form I will”.

Tafseer e Furat page 26, Ameerul Momineen (as) says, “ I was summoned 12

times into the court of Allah. He gave Me marifat of His personality and key of

ghayab (unseen).”

Imam Jafar (asws) has narrated;

"We consider a man to be truly wise only when he is inspired by supresensable voices' (La na'uddu l-faqih faqihan hatta yakuna muhaddathan) (al-Kashshi Rijal p.9)

and Imam al- Ridha (asws) " I should like each faithful believer to become one who is inspired by suprasensable voices" (Inni uhibbu an yakuna l'-momin muhaddith) (Maani al-akhbar page 172

(note; in both cases the word muhaddath is explained as a synonym of mufahham - he to whom understanding from "On-High" is given- and thus reading the word muhaddath as narrator of hadith or traditionalist is not possible)

Ya ALI Madad! Ya ALI Madad! Ya ALI Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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Bismillah

Imam Abu Abdullah (asws) said: “When Allah is pleased by someone’s

conduct, He blesses that fellow by inscribing a ‘Noorani’ dot in his heart,

which enlightens his heart and ears. He then become extremely greedy in his

striving to gain the knowledge related to ‘Amr-e-Imamat’. But when Allah

Gets annoyed by someone’s actions, He punishes him by inscribing a

‘Black dot’ in his heart which darkens his heart and ears.”

The absolute one and only foundation of the Shia religion is Moula Ali (as) who is the dot of ‘Bismillah’. The whole universe revolves around Him. Animals, birds, every single particle of the universe praise Him. The winds bring His kindness. The waves of the rivers sing His songs. Thunder and the crackle of lightning announce His orders. Thunder, storms, floods, and earthquakes announce His wrath. Even the angels who

were created only for worshipping, all sing His praises constantly. This is their

worship. In Najul Israr First Edition, page no. 58, Moula Ali (as) says, “ Verily My

wilayat has been made wajib (compulsory) in the heavens the same way it was made

wajib on this earth. The angels remain busy in My remembrance always. This is their

tasbeeh. According to Allah, this is their worship.”

Therefore, whatever has come into existence has done so from the hands of Moula

Ali (as). Even the ba in Bismillah could only gain its existence through Moula Ali (as)

because ba can only be known through its dot and that dot is dependent on none

other than Allah alone.

In actuality, when we see a line, it is this repetitive dot which we are seeing. We find

this dot saying, “I take the shape of whatever Allah wills for Me. Anyone who sees those

faces or forms has seen Me. Anyone who saw Me has seen those faces. We are that Noor

of Allah which can neither be declined nor can it be changed.” (Najul Israr First

Edition page 91)

Noor is one whose essence has amr (command) over the nafs and has authority to

bring others into being through His essence. According to this explanation, only one

can be noor who is the absolute essence and is the reason for being of other

essences. The dot under the bismillah is witness that the true essence is Ameerul

Momineen (as).

The bay comes into being through Moula Ali (as). The whole Quran is in bay. Every

thing which is created is present in Quran. The dot is one who gives the essence to

the entire universe. The meanings of the Noor of all Noors is that Moula Ali (as)

created all other noors.

Najul Israr First Edition page no 34, Ameerul Momineen (as) said, “All

things come back to the dot, and that dot is a proof of zaat (essence). This dot is

the first inspiration of Allah.”

No one except my Moula (as) claimed to be dot nor does anyone

have such courage to claim to be. It is a sign of how ignorant people are that they

believe on Shab e Miraj (night of ascension) that RasoolAllah (saw) went to see

Allah. The purpose of Miraj was to introduce RasoolAllah (saw) to the first

inspiration of Allah. In addition, to allow RasoolAllah (saw) to see Moula Ali (as). As this First Inspiration

Himself says, “Night of the Ascension of RasoolAllah (saw) is relation with the

informing of RasoolAllah (saw) with the dot.” (Najul Israr First Edition page no 37)

We should not be confused after seeing this First Inspiration in physical form. Their

physical form is the inspiration of Allah Himself. Their reality is immortal. Najul

Israr First Edition page no 156, Ameerul Momineen (as) explains this point, “I am

the one who will never die. When I die , it is not death. I am the hidden secret of Allah.”

The physical form of these Sacred Personalities (Masoomeen) is due to the limit of our ability to

understand not due to Their limitations. We cannot accept nor can we believe in

Allah and worship until we see Allah, but these Holy Personalities are not forced to

come in physical form. Human form depends on Their will. Whenever They want,

They come and whenever They want, They go. It is up to Them. We should not

become negligent in understanding this reality because if we are negligent in this

point, we will become mushrik (polytheist). Regardless, if one believes They are the

incarnation of Allah or They Themselves are Allah or believes in some Allah which is

from their own imaginings, it will be considered as shirk. The reality of these Sacred

Personalities can never change because They are Mazher e Zaat (manifestation of

essence).

Ya ALI Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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Dear YaHu,

If I have a choice between fallowing someone Infallible (Masum) versus someone fallible, everytime I would choose the Masum.

Something odd is surely going on. During the Prophets time (peace be upon him) the color of the deen was green. Today, the mullahs of Iran and their fallowers have changed the color to black. The Prophets and Imams (Masums) had long beutiful hair. Today, these so called Hezbullahis shave their head. The Prophet and Imams brought life into the Hearts of the believers while today the mullahs of Iran preach a death cult ideology.

Maybe this is why the mullahs do not want to have Marifat of our Masums and instead misguide the simpleton population. It makes sense when we look at the history of Persia where the majority of the population were originally sunni before the Safavid invasion of Persia. Once the Safavids took over, they had to replace the sunni shariat with a similar shariat. That is why it is no wounder why the Mujtaheds shariat is so similar to the sunnis. Second reason the Safavids forced Shariat on the population of Persia was because it would made the people submit and not question the monarchy (thanks with the help of the mullahs that the safavids imported to persia from Lebonon).

To understand what the real shia religion is, we must look upon the narrators who collected the Imams (as) sayings (akhbars) and contemplate on them. In other words, we must ponder on the Hadiths of our Imams and find the precious gems and pearls in their words.

Once a person came up to Imam Ali (as) and asked the Imam what he cherished the most. The Imam replied,'I cherish life."

The man with shock said to Imam Ali (as)," How can you say you cherish life, when I have heard from you that this life is full of evil and zolmat?"

The Imam replied back,"You see, I am a good person, so this life for me is good; however, you are a bad person, so this life for you is bad."

Edited by Salsal

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(bismillah)

If I have a choice between fallowing someone Infallible (Masum) versus someone fallible, everytime I would choose the Masum.

Iblis worshiped Allah for a long time, to the point that he was among the ranks of angels. But when Allah commanded him to submit to Adam (A) he refused. He was willing to worship Allah, but unwilling to submit to Adam (A) made out of clay. As a result he was thrown out and to became the cursed one.

There are so called "Shia" willing to follow Masoomeen (A), but when the same Masoomeen (A) command them to follow a fallible scholar...they refuse.

I am sure when Imam al-Asr (ATFS) comes he will ask them if they followed the pious scholars that he directed them to follow. What will be their reply? Will they say Imam (ATFS) we were willing to follow all your commands, except one.

Allah, The Most High revealed to Daniel saying, 'The most hated among my creatures are the ignorant ones who DISRESPECT the scholars and do not follow them...." (al-Kafi, H 61, Ch. 4, h 5)

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(bismillah)

Iblis worshiped Allah for a long time, to the point that he was among the ranks of angels. But when Allah commanded him to submit to Adam (A) he refused. He was willing to worship Allah, but unwilling to submit to Adam (A) made out of clay. As a result he was thrown out and to became the cursed one.

There are so called "Shia" willing to follow Masoomeen (A), but when the same Masoomeen (A) command them to follow a fallible scholar...they refuse.

I am sure when Imam al-Asr (ATFS) comes he will ask them if they followed the pious scholars that he directed them to follow. What will be their reply? Will they say Imam (ATFS) we were willing to follow all your commands, except one.

Allah, The Most High revealed to Daniel saying, 'The most hated among my creatures are the ignorant ones who DISRESPECT the scholars and do not follow them...." (al-Kafi, H 61, Ch. 4, h 5)

A Mujtahed might be considered a scholar in your mind and eyes. But never to me because they (mujtaheds) have absolutley no marifat about the true atrrtributes of our Ahl-eBait and they certainly are not Arifs. Didn't Khoui smoke nicotine cigeretts and doesn't your Khamenai of Iran smoke too. You see, they can not even control their own nafs and you want them to control you by teliing you to do taqleed to them. The mujtaheds are still battleing their Nafs-e Amerat (the uncontoling animal-body) while our hidden Arifs have reached Nafs-e Mutmayenat (Nafs at certainty).

Please Orion, get your definations right first. Your mujtaheds can not tame their own nafs. Here is a diagram that might help you:

Alam-e Zaher -----------------------------> Outer World

!

!

!

Alam-e Baten-----------------------------> Inner World

!

!

!

Haqq (Zat, Essence, Lahut)----> Source, Origin (The Return, Nur-e-Wilayat)

Dear Orion, I have tried my best to simplify this diagram as much as possible so that your intellect does not get too overwhelmed. It is as if a person was in a dark room with no light for days. Once someone turns on tha light switch, that person will not be able to take in all that light due to being in the dark (zolmat) for soo long.

The true Shia, meaning our hidden cherished Arifs are Ahl-e Batin and Shia-e Kamil. Because they have perfected their nafs through Marifat, they have the right to guide others to the reality of our 12th Imam (atf). Your so called shias the mujtaheds are Ahl-e Zaher. I hope to help you understand this more clearly so that you may stop misguiding the simpleton shias in this forum just as how the mujtaheds have misguided the simplton shias with taqleed to them. Taqleed to a mujtahed will never save one single soul from the hell fire. Only Marifat will.

Our hidden Arifs are at the station of Truth (Haqq, Lahut) while your mujtaheds are still stuck in the Zaher (having no idea let alone experience of the deeper aspects of Reality).

I really don't care how much the shariat-minded mullas know about exoteric (zaher) matters because they do not have the Noor (Light) in their hearts to be able to see what is behind the Zaher.

The Urafa (Esoericist) are perfect in the deen (Shia-e Kamil) while the Ulama (exotecists) are still trying to control their un-ruling nafs while hiding under the guise of being soo knowledgable in zaher (exoteric) matters.

The heart has two faces, its appearent face (zahir) represents life, guarenteeing the life of organic forces and that of the body, this face is the Seat of Light. Its hidden Face (batin) whose place of manifestation is found in the chest, is the place of reuinion, and of epiphany of the Divine Attributes and Names, which is why this Face is called the Throne. This is why Imam Ali (asws) is the Throne, for through His esoteric (batin) He is Al-Haqq, He is the confluence of the Secrets.

"Del ra do ru st ru-ye zahir-e an ke hayat ast jan bakhsh-e quwa wa tan ast wa in wajhe qa'ida-ye nur ast wa ruye batin-e an ke batin e qalb ast wa zuhur-e u be sadr ast majma' wa mahall-e zuhur-e asma wa sifat-e illahe st lihadha 'arsh guyand...lihadha 'Ali (asws) arsh ast ke be ruy-e batin Allah ast ke majma'-e asrar ast"

Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (as) said, "Our cause is a secret within a secret, a secret that only another secret can explain; it is a secret about a secret veiled by a secret" - Imam Jafa'r as-Sadiq (as), hadith cited by Saffar al-Qummi in Basa'ir al-Darajat (The Grades of Insights)

"We are the Face of the Allah (nahnu wajh Allah)" - Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as), hadith cited by al-Qummi in the above work as well as by Kulayni in his Usul min al-Kafi (Foundations of Sufficiency).

"I am the One standing between the Twin Gulfs (ana waqif 'ala tatanjayn) and the Observer over the twin Easts and the twin Wests (wa nazir 'ali-l-mashriqayn wa al-maghribayn)" - Opening statement by 'Ali (as) in the Sermon Between the Two Gulfs (Khutba Tantanjiyya).

Hundred dozen more statements such as this can be provided from the corpus of the collections of Imamite sayings attributed to the Imams. On flimsy basis some of the later Shi'ite traditionists, beginning with the Shaykh al-Sadduq, have either dismissed such sayings as ghuluww (extremism) or pious interpolations and outright frauds. Yet when the chain of narrators have actually been interrogated it appears that such theopathic sayings by the Imams actually are quite strong (and in fact stronger than many other things attributed to the Imams which the establishment considers authentic), regardless of what the 'ulama (Ahl-e zaher) and jurisconsult traditionists of later years have held. One of the reasons why such things have been dismissed by them has been for purely political motives because they have attempted to ask for forgiveness from Sunni establishments from charges that Shi'ism as a whole is extremism. Yet it does not occur to these people anymore why taqiyya or kitman (i.e. the discipline of the arcane) was even instituted by the Imams in the first place. It was instituted precisely to protect such esoteric secrets from the profane and for the same reason Hazrat Jesus (peace be upon him) says "cast ye not pearls before swine lest they trample them underfoot." But that taqiyya/kitman exists does not mean such statements or perspectives are false. It means that such secrets are only there for the contemplation and ultimate realization of the true initiates of the Ahl al-Bayt to ponder.

The following is also from HH Ja'far (as):

"All the people will perish except the knowers (kullu-l-nass halikun illa-l-'alimun). And all the knowers will perish except the doers (wa kullu'l-'alimin halikun illa-l-'amilun). And all the doers will perish except the sincere (wa kullu'l-'amilin halikun illa-l-mukhlisun). And the sincere are in the greatest danger (wa'l-mukhlisun fi khatari 'azim)."

The narrator (Abu Ummero) says, I heard it from Imam Abuabdullah that Imam said: ‘I

heard it from my father that there is nothing so dear to him on earth

which he had liked more than the Taqqiya. Whoever will observe Taqqiya,

Allah will raise his virtues and whoever would abandon it, Allah will

humiliate him. O Habib! (Our) adversaries, at present, are relaxed and

are living comfortably. However, Taqqiya will be discontinued when our

‘Hujjat will appear, again, to take the control (of the whole world).

Imam AbuAbdullah (as) asked from Abu Ummero: "‘O Abu Ummero! If I

narrate one Hadith to you and then narrate another, on contrary to the

previous one then which Hadith will you follow? I replied: ‘I will adhere to the

later one and leave the previous hadith. Imam (a)replied: ‘This is correct,

since Allah Wants to be worshiped discreetly, By Allah! It will be better

for both you and me if you would act like this; since in ‘Deen’, Allah

had Prescribed Taqqiya for yourselves and ourselves."

In Tafseer Furat page no. 251, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) said, “We narrate

different kinds of hadiths to the people. Some hadiths are those that can be narrated

without any fear from the mimbar (pulpit). They are those hadiths that are regarding

Our glory and the destruction of Our enemies. Some hadiths are only told to Our Shia.

They agree with them. Some hadiths are told only to one or two people.

If such a hadith is told to three people, it becomes worthless. There is one such hadith

that We only tell to those whose heart is a trustee, who has marifat (recognition), and

has intellect gifted to them by Allah. Such people become guardians, protectors,

inviters, and witness of Our hadiths.”

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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I am not defending them, but I read somewhere that Khamenei stopped smoking once he became president of Iran in 1981.

That sounds just like the U.S. President Barack Obama who stopped smoking when he became president. Now, that is in the public eye but I wounder whats going on in private. Only Allah knows what is in their hearts and what are their true intentions. But I know one thing for sure: If someone stops doing something wrong just for show because they know everyone is watching, I do not think that means that they have purified their nafs. Why did Khamenai never stop in front of Allah but he stops in front of the Iranian population. There is something wrong with that. It reminds me of the former Shah of Iran who decided to go to Hajj after his exile from Iran and the President of Iraq, Saddam Hussain who also went to Hajj.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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That sounds just like the U.S. President Barack Obama who stopped smoking when he became president. Now, that is in the public eye but I wounder whats going on in private. Only Allah knows what is in their hearts and what are their true intentions. But I know one thing for sure: If someone stops doing something wrong just for show because they know everyone is watching, I do not think that means that they have purified their nafs. Why did Khamenai never stop in front of Allah but he stops in front of the Iranian population. There is something wrong with that. It reminds me of the former Shah of Iran who decided to go to Hajj after his exile from Iran and the President of Iraq, Saddam Hussain who also went to Hajj.

Ya Ali Madad!

I completely agree with you Salsal.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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A Mujtahed might be considered a scholar in your mind and eyes. But never to me because they (mujtaheds) have absolutley no marifat about the true atrrtributes of our Ahl-eBait and they certainly are not Arifs. Didn't Khoui smoke nicotine cigeretts and doesn't your Khamenai of Iran smoke too. You see, they can not even control their own nafs and you want them to control you by teliing you to do taqleed to them. The mujtaheds are still battleing their Nafs-e Amerat (the uncontoling animal-body) while our hidden Arifs have reached Nafs-e Mutmayenat (Nafs at certainty).

Please Orion, get your definations right first. Your mujtaheds can not tame their own nafs. Here is a diagram that might help you:

Alam-e Zaher -----------------------------> Outer World

!

!

!

Alam-e Baten-----------------------------> Inner World

!

!

!

Haqq (Zat, Essence, Lahut)----> Source, Origin (The Return, Nur-e-Wilayat)

Dear Orion, I have tried my best to simplify this diagram as much as possible so that your intellect does not get too overwhelmed. It is as if a person was in a dark room with no light for days. Once someone turns on tha light switch, that person will not be able to take in all that light due to being in the dark (zolmat) for soo long.

The true Shia, meaning our hidden cherished Arifs are Ahl-e Batin and Shia-e Kamil. Because they have perfected their nafs through Marifat, they have the right to guide others to the reality of our 12th Imam (atf). Your so called shias the mujtaheds are Ahl-e Zaher. I hope to help you understand this more clearly so that you may stop misguiding the simpleton shias in this forum just as how the mujtaheds have misguided the simplton shias with taqleed to them. Taqleed to a mujtahed will never save one single soul from the hell fire. Only Marifat will.

Our hidden Arifs are at the station of Truth (Haqq, Lahut) while your mujtaheds are still stuck in the Zaher (having no idea let alone experience of the deeper aspects of Reality).

I really don't care how much the shariat-minded mullas know about exoteric (zaher) matters because they do not have the Noor (Light) in their hearts to be able to see what is behind the Zaher.

The Urafa (Esoericist) are perfect in the deen (Shia-e Kamil) while the Ulama (exotecists) are still trying to control their un-ruling nafs while hiding under the guise of being soo knowledgable in zaher (exoteric) matters.

The heart has two faces, its appearent face (zahir) represents life, guarenteeing the life of organic forces and that of the body, this face is the Seat of Light. Its hidden Face (batin) whose place of manifestation is found in the chest, is the place of reuinion, and of epiphany of the Divine Attributes and Names, which is why this Face is called the Throne. This is why Imam Ali (asws) is the Throne, for through His esoteric (batin) He is Al-Haqq, He is the confluence of the Secrets.

"Del ra do ru st ru-ye zahir-e an ke hayat ast jan bakhsh-e quwa wa tan ast wa in wajhe qa'ida-ye nur ast wa ruye batin-e an ke batin e qalb ast wa zuhur-e u be sadr ast majma' wa mahall-e zuhur-e asma wa sifat-e illahe st lihadha 'arsh guyand...lihadha 'Ali (asws) arsh ast ke be ruy-e batin Allah ast ke majma'-e asrar ast"

Imam Jafar Al-Sadiq (as) said, "Our cause is a secret within a secret, a secret that only another secret can explain; it is a secret about a secret veiled by a secret" - Imam Jafa'r as-Sadiq (as), hadith cited by Saffar al-Qummi in Basa'ir al-Darajat (The Grades of Insights)

"We are the Face of the Allah (nahnu wajh Allah)" - Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (as), hadith cited by al-Qummi in the above work as well as by Kulayni in his Usul min al-Kafi (Foundations of Sufficiency).

"I am the One standing between the Twin Gulfs (ana waqif 'ala tatanjayn) and the Observer over the twin Easts and the twin Wests (wa nazir 'ali-l-mashriqayn wa al-maghribayn)" - Opening statement by 'Ali (as) in the Sermon Between the Two Gulfs (Khutba Tantanjiyya).

Hundred dozen more statements such as this can be provided from the corpus of the collections of Imamite sayings attributed to the Imams. On flimsy basis some of the later Shi'ite traditionists, beginning with the Shaykh al-Sadduq, have either dismissed such sayings as ghuluww (extremism) or pious interpolations and outright frauds. Yet when the chain of narrators have actually been interrogated it appears that such theopathic sayings by the Imams actually are quite strong (and in fact stronger than many other things attributed to the Imams which the establishment considers authentic), regardless of what the 'ulama (Ahl-e zaher) and jurisconsult traditionists of later years have held. One of the reasons why such things have been dismissed by them has been for purely political motives because they have attempted to ask for forgiveness from Sunni establishments from charges that Shi'ism as a whole is extremism. Yet it does not occur to these people anymore why taqiyya or kitman (i.e. the discipline of the arcane) was even instituted by the Imams in the first place. It was instituted precisely to protect such esoteric secrets from the profane and for the same reason Hazrat Jesus (peace be upon him) says "cast ye not pearls before swine lest they trample them underfoot." But that taqiyya/kitman exists does not mean such statements or perspectives are false. It means that such secrets are only there for the contemplation and ultimate realization of the true initiates of the Ahl al-Bayt to ponder.

The following is also from HH Ja'far (as):

"All the people will perish except the knowers (kullu-l-nass halikun illa-l-'alimun). And all the knowers will perish except the doers (wa kullu'l-'alimin halikun illa-l-'amilun). And all the doers will perish except the sincere (wa kullu'l-'amilin halikun illa-l-mukhlisun). And the sincere are in the greatest danger (wa'l-mukhlisun fi khatari 'azim)."

The narrator (Abu Ummero) says, I heard it from Imam Abuabdullah that Imam said: ‘I

heard it from my father that there is nothing so dear to him on earth

which he had liked more than the Taqqiya. Whoever will observe Taqqiya,

Allah will raise his virtues and whoever would abandon it, Allah will

humiliate him. O Habib! (Our) adversaries, at present, are relaxed and

are living comfortably. However, Taqqiya will be discontinued when our

‘Hujjat will appear, again, to take the control (of the whole world).

Imam AbuAbdullah (as) asked from Abu Ummero: "‘O Abu Ummero! If I

narrate one Hadith to you and then narrate another, on contrary to the

previous one then which Hadith will you follow? I replied: ‘I will adhere to the

later one and leave the previous hadith. Imam (a)replied: ‘This is correct,

since Allah Wants to be worshiped discreetly, By Allah! It will be better

for both you and me if you would act like this; since in ‘Deen’, Allah

had Prescribed Taqqiya for yourselves and ourselves."

In Tafseer Furat page no. 251, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) said, “We narrate

different kinds of hadiths to the people. Some hadiths are those that can be narrated

without any fear from the mimbar (pulpit). They are those hadiths that are regarding

Our glory and the destruction of Our enemies. Some hadiths are only told to Our Shia.

They agree with them. Some hadiths are told only to one or two people.

If such a hadith is told to three people, it becomes worthless. There is one such hadith

that We only tell to those whose heart is a trustee, who has marifat (recognition), and

has intellect gifted to them by Allah. Such people become guardians, protectors,

inviters, and witness of Our hadiths.”

Ya Ali Madad!

(bismillah)

First of all let me tell you that long posts dont impress me at all, especially if you are addressing someone. If you are writing a theases or explaining something complicated thats different. So I would advise you to keep your posts short and to the point.

Now regarding your post most of it is based on false assumptions. For example you have assumed that Urafa and Ulama are two different breeds. You have assumed that Ulema are unaware of Irfan or that they are against it. However the fact is quite opposite. Among our Ulema are the great Urafa of this era. Some are not so known (hidden) while others are known. For example Aytaullah Bhaijat recently passed away. He was known to be a great Aarif.

There are several books introducing Irfan available now in English. For example:

Light Within Me by Ayatullah Mutahhari, Allamah Tabataba'i, Imam Khomeini (AR)

Self Building: Spiritual Migration to God by Ayatullah Ibrahim Amini

Adabus Salat by Imam Khomeini

This is proof that our Ulema are devoted to Irfan as much as they are involved with Fiqh.

In your post you have been attacking Ulema. That in itself against the spirit of Irfan. So I will not respond by attacking Aarifs. But I will just caution you about one thing. A so called Arif who does not observe sharai ahkam cannot be a real Arif. Irfan and obeying Allah go hand in hand.

WS

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(bismillah)

For example Aytaullah Bhaijat recently passed away. He was known to be a great Aarif.

There are several books introducing Irfan available now in English. For example:

Light Within Me by Ayatullah Mutahhari, Allamah Or because he claimed to meet the 12th Imam (as) numerous times in the physical form? The 12th Imam (atf) only manifests into the heart of the momin in the form of LIGHT (NUR) not in a human form. I wounder who it really was that he kept meeting, maybe Shayton?

, Imam Khomeini (AR)

Self Building: Spiritual Migration to God by Ayatullah Ibrahim Amini

Adabus Salat by Imam Khomeini

This is proof that our Ulema are devoted to Irfan as much as they are involved with Fiqh.

WS

I can not believe you went there.

First lets start with the reccently passed Mr. Bhaijat. Why do you consider him an Arif? Because he cried during Salats? Any actor in Hollywood can do the same. Or because he claimed to meet the 12th Imam (atf) numerous times in the physical form? The 12th Imam (atf) only manifests into the heart of the momin in the form of LIGHT (NUR) not in a human form. I wounder who it really was that he kept meeting, maybe Shayton?

I am reminded of a Mullah in Mashad who makes it a point to drive to Qum from Mashad every Monday to pick up organic fruits and drive it back to Mashad to disperse it to the people. The people feel as if he is such an Arif in doing such a self-less act. Is this your definitions of an Arif: someone who cries non-stop durring namaz, someone who thinks the human in their dream is the 12th imam (atf) when in reality it's Shaytons jinns, or someone driving 1000's of miles to and back to deliver special fruits? Why does not the same Mullah nurture and nourish the people with marifat of the attributes of our Holy Masums? Maybe he doesn't have any himself nor are there anyone in Qum to give such true nourishments. Irfan through the marifat of our Beloved Ahl-e Bait tastes a lot better than any types of fruit from Qum or anywhere else.

Next, lets talk about Tabatabai and Khomeini:

The Book Khomeini wrote called "The Light Within Me" was all copy and paste from the real Arifs of the past like Suhrawardi, Haydar Amuli, and Al-Tusi. Moreover, Khomeini in his book "Light within Me" does talk about how Imam Ali (as) is the Hand of Allah (Yadullah), Eye of Allah (Ainullah), and the Dot under the Ba in Bismiilah; however, this is all copy and paste of what Imam Ali (as) said about himself in Khutbatul Bayan. Khomeini was just hoping to get the respect of the Arifs but this did not and will not happen. In other words, Khomeini tried to talk the talk (of previous Arifs and our Imams (as)) but he never was able to walk the walk. If Khomeini was an Arif, the first think he would of said to the simpleton shias would of been to stop calling him Imam. Only the cursed sunnis call their leaders Imams. In reality, the term Imam is only reserved for our Masumeen. Sorry Khomeini, but you are not Masum! Now, what about Komeinis sufi poetry? That was all copy and paste from Mansur Al-Hallaj, the martyr who proclaimed, "Ana Al Haqq" and was executed for it.

Next, we have Tabatabai. He was Khomeini's teacher and mentor. But where did Tabatabai get his information? I'll tell you where: He got it from the same person Sistani got it from which was Mr. Khoui who I explained earlier, he couldn't control his own nafs. here is a youtube video for those of you who need to see it to believe it:

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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Cripes. the man smoking looks like he has given up completely....on everything!

Acctually, he (Mr. Khoui) has not given up on anything, especially that which relates to the Donya (wordly) like smoking nicotined cigaretts. You see, we must not give in to the temptations of our nafs, especially smoking.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by YaHu

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.... and you are talking about smoking as if it is a deadly sin.

It sure is a deadly sin to the Ruh. Smoking only benefits our corrupt nafs. This is the Greater Jihad (Jihad Al-Akbar) that the Seal of Prophets (Peace be upon Him) warned us about. There is no greater Shayton than the Shayton of our own Nafs. The outward (zahir) action of smoking reveals ones inner (batin) state of dis-harmony, contamination, impurity, and corruption.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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Salsal, give it a rest. If you had accomplished any degree of illumination or marifat, you would have gained some basic manners in the process.

You're a fraudster throwing photocopied words you don't understand. Everyone can see through you as plain as day. I think you should move along and do something useful with your time.

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Salsal, give it a rest. If you had accomplished any degree of illumination or marifat, you would have gained some basic manners in the process.

You're a fraudster throwing photocopied words you don't understand. Everyone can see through you as plain as day. I think you should move along and do something useful with your time.

I have great manners to those who are true shias and love to gain Marifat of our Beloved Ahl-e Bait. I have nothing but animosity to the enemies of our Beloved Ahl-e Bait and those hypocrits who claim shia but act too sunni in reality, especially when it comes to rejecting the meaning of life which is gaining Marifat of the Attributes of our Holy 12 Imams.

Moula Ali (as) has said “Be a friend to those who are

My friends, even if he is the murderer of your father. (with the condition that the

father is not a momin. Otherwise, one who kills a momin becomes a kafir.) Be an

enemy to those who are My enemies even if he is your father.”

Jannah (paradise) is fond of those who love Moula Ali (as). Jahannum (hell)

intensely hates the enemies of Moula Ali (as). RasoolAllah (saw) said, “O’Ibn Abbas

(ra)! I swear by the God who made Me a true prophet, jahannum (hell) hates the

enemies of Ali (as) more than it hates those who made Allah have a son.” (Tafseer

Furat)

In the tafseer of an ayah, Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) narrates from His Father (as), “

We are those who know. Those who do not know are Our enemies. Those who use

their intellects and gain guidance are Our shia.”

Rasullah (peace be upon him) said,“O’Abu Zarr (ra)! Allah created 70,000 angels for each rukan (pillar) of His

arsh. Praying for Moula Ali (as) and cursing His enemies is their tasbeeh and

worship.”

In Manaqib ibn Shahr Ashoob Second Edition page no 119, Moula Ali

(as) said, “I swear by my Lord, anyone who will decrease Our attributes,

Allah will decrease his reward both in this world and in the hereafter.”

Masoomeen (as) never took notice of such so-called shias who were of a jealous

and envious nature or of those who were Shia by name only. These so called

shias are the same as the nasibis (enemies of Ahlul Bayt as).

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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You guys are too funny. You hold all kinds of deviant beliefs, and you are talking about smoking as if it is a deadly sin.

The man looks like he has given up on everything, that has nothing to do with sins..it doesnt make me deviant, to observe that does it?

i dont find your accusations funny at all.

Still laughing?

what you laughing about?

whats so funny?

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Salsal, who are you to judge who is a real Shi`a and who is not.

May Allah, the Most High, curse the liars.

If your accusations against great scholars like Behjat, Tabatabai, Khomeini, and Khui رحمة الله عليهم are untrue, be prepared to be questioned on the Day of Judgment for your lies.

The man looks like he has given up on everything,

(salam)

Bro, what do you mean "he looks like he has given up on everything"?? What do you mean by this sentence?

Edited by 14infallibles

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The man looks like he has given up on everything, that has nothing to do with sins..it doesnt make me deviant, to observe that does it?

i dont find your accusations funny at all.

Still laughing?

what you laughing about?

whats so funny?

Sorry brother, I didn't mean to include you. I don't have any problem with your post at all, and I don't think marjas should be smoking. I was talking about the other two, who's views border on shirk(especially YaHu).

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If your accusations are untrue... be prepared to be questioned on the Day of Judgment for your lies.

They are not accusations but facts presented to you with proofs. please re-read my posts and ponder on what you read. Don't be like the Wahabis who never ponder on what they read.

Ya Ali Madad!

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(salam)

Bro, what do you mean "he looks like he has given up on everything"?? What do you mean by this sentence?

(salam)

I am not saying anything deep, or meaningful.

No matter who you are your outside should (and does) reflect your inside. Simple truth.

Maybe everyone needs to take 5 and relax. B)

Edited by Mohammed-W

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(bismillah)

I can not believe you went there.

First lets start with the reccently passed Mr. Bhaijat. Why do you consider him an Arif? Because he cried during Salats? Any actor in Hollywood can do the same. Or because he claimed to meet the 12th Imam (atf) numerous times in the physical form? The 12th Imam (atf) only manifests into the heart of the momin in the form of LIGHT (NUR) not in a human form. I wounder who it really was that he kept meeting, maybe Shayton?

I consider him an Arif based on the testimony of trusted friends and family.

Also know that the 12th Imam is a human in the physical form who is living on earth. Some lucky people are blessed with his Ziyarat.

I am reminded of a Mullah in Mashad who makes it a point to drive to Qum from Mashad every Monday to pick up organic fruits and drive it back to Mashad to disperse it to the people. The people feel as if he is such an Arif in doing such a self-less act. Is this your definitions of an Arif: someone who cries non-stop durring namaz, someone who thinks the human in their dream is the 12th imam (atf) when in reality it's Shaytons jinns, or someone driving 1000's of miles to and back to deliver special fruits? Why does not the same Mullah nurture and nourish the people with marifat of the attributes of our Holy Masums? Maybe he doesn't have any himself nor are there anyone in Qum to give such true nourishments. Irfan through the marifat of our Beloved Ahl-e Bait tastes a lot better than any types of fruit from Qum or anywhere else.

I dont know any such person and the way you are accusing pious scholars I cant take your word either.

Next, lets talk about Tabatabai and Khomeini:

The Book Khomeini wrote called "The Light Within Me" was all copy and paste from the real Arifs of the past like Suhrawardi, Haydar Amuli, and Al-Tusi. Moreover, Khomeini in his book "Light within Me" does talk about how Imam Ali as.gif is the Hand of Allah (Yadullah), Eye of Allah (Ainullah), and the Dot under the Ba in Bismiilah; however, this is all copy and paste of what Imam Ali as.gifsaid about himself in Khutbatul Bayan. Khomeini was just hoping to get the respect of the Arifs but this did not and will not happen. In other words, Khomeini tried to talk the talk (of previous Arifs and our Imams as.gif) but he never was able to walk the walk. If Khomeini was an Arif, the first think he would of said to the simpleton shias would of been to stop calling him Imam. Only the cursed sunnis call their leaders Imams. In reality, the term Imam is only reserved for our Masumeen. Sorry Khomeini, but you are not Masum! Now, what about Komeinis sufi poetry? That was all copy and paste from Mansur Al-Hallaj, the martyr who proclaimed, "Ana Al Haqq" and was executed for it.

Next, we have Tabatabai. He was Khomeini's teacher and mentor. But where did Tabatabai get his information?

What a deviated thing to say. Aarif does not mean one would invent things in his own imagination factory. Copy and paste from the Prophet (S) or Imam Ali (A) is the best honor for any Shia. In fact if Allah counted me among those who copy and paste the words of Rasool Allah (S) and his Ahlul Bait (as) that would be enough for my salvation, InshaAllah.

Imam simply means a leader. The prayer leader is also called an Imam (Imam jamaat) and Shia have been saying that for ever. It shows your lack of knowledge about Shia ways.

Ahlul Bait Imams (A) are Masoom Imams. All other Imams like prayer leader or Imam Khomeini are not.

And lastly a warning. If you continue to disrespect pious scholars comparing them with Hollywood actors, making fun of their tears which is a sign of fear of God...... I will stop discussing with you. Not only that, I will ask moderators to discipline you. So be mindful next time.

Edited by Orion

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....from the cursed Baqir Nisar Zaidi's book?

(bismillah)

And lastly a warning. If you continue to disrespect pious scholars ...... I will stop discussing with you.

Do you not remember when you told YaHU that he follows the cursed Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi. Why is it ok for you to disrespect our Beloved (real) scholars? You are a Hypocrite.

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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Do you not remember when you told YaHU that he follows the cursed Syed Baqir Nisar Zaidi. Why is it ok for you to disrespect our Beloved (real) scholars? You are a Hypocrite.

Baqir Nisar Zaidi is a misguided soul and our pious scholars are guided. There is a difference.

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Baqir Nisar Zaidi is a misguided soul and our pious scholars are guided. There is a difference.

To us real Shias it is the other way arround. I am sorry to be the one to break it to you but we are a lot more prepared than you for the Akherat (Judgement day). You may judge us and our scholars here, but in the hereafter you and your scholars will have to stand in front of Moula Ali (as) with nothing to show but how many prayers you memorized and how many salats you did. Do you think that you will gain access to heaven this way. If you do, then the Wahabis will too. Are you ready?

Ya Ali Madad!

Edited by Salsal

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To us real Shias it is the other way arround. I am sorry to be the one to break it to you but we are a lot more prepared than you for the Akherat (Judgement day). You may judge us and our scholars here, but in the hereafter you and your scholars will have to stand in front of Moula Ali (as) with nothing to show but how many prayers you memorized and how many salats you did. Do you think that you will gain access to heaven this way. If you do, then the Wahabis will too. Are you ready?

Ya Ali Madad!

So you are already guaranteed salvation, are you? You people sound so much like the Christians, it's amazing.

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(bismillah)

To us real Shias it is the other way arround.

Thats your problem, not mine. If you want to stay in this discussion, no disrespect in any shape or form, direct or indirect. If you have a question or objection to their words or acts you can discuss it with respect, no problem. But you will not be allowed to disrespect our scholars on this board. Period.

Its your decision.

I am sorry to be the one to break it to you but we are a lot more prepared than you for the Akherat (Judgement day). You may judge us and our scholars here, but in the hereafter you and your scholars will have to stand in front of Moula Ali as.gif with nothing to show but how many prayers you memorized and how many salats you did. Do you think that you will gain access to heaven this way. Are you ready?

(bismillah)

I swear by the time,

Most surely man is in loss,

Except those who believe and do good, and enjoin on each other truth, and enjoin on each other patience.

(Quran 103:1-3)

Edited by Orion

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