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In the Name of God بسم الله

Questions That Need Answers

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So let's see ignore words of Ahlebayt (as)

Twist and ignore Quran.....

And then talk about "Ali' to do this?

Didn;t Imam Ali (as) say two will perish

whom loves him too much so his love takes him out of righteousness, (this love is not haq love, which has no limits to extent one can have it)

whom hates him so his hates takes him out of righteosness (ends up denyin gGod's authorities, because of jealousy of family of Mohammad )....

People whom denying Ulil-Amr (as), don't think they are of the 2nd group.

And people whom call upon Ali (as), don't think they are in the 1st group..

But can any agrue that people whom call upn Allah (swt), logn the companionship of Imasm (as) and guidance, becasue of their love of Allah (swt) and learning how to worship him, and watning to Worship Allah (swt), so Allah (swt) is the principle of that love... and acknowledge them as Guides, Leaders, Masters, Authorites, Ways, and Means towards God, and will have spiritual guidance in this world and next...

Can you say these people are not in the middle? So why not leave what is doubtful, even if we have not proven, why rely on doubts, while you know for sure, God responds when called to him and enver commanded once in Quran to call upon other then him?

Just ponder people.....

Don't let people like Layman and others fool you.... remember how the whole mess started "I swear to you I am of those whom wish you well".

wa salam

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He's also next to your friend Orion. Tell me, is Ali omnipresent, does he duplicate himself to listen to you?

Allah gave him the permission to hear us all. In fact, he comes and visits all of us when we die, believer or disbeliever. The believer is pleased when he comes to visit him, whereas the disbeliever is in hatred but can do nothing about it.

Or his knowledge is equal to Allah's knowledge,

You don't know Allah's knowledge so don't talk about it.

Allah gave everyone knowledge, he gave his special representatives more knowledge than others. When you are not able to understand the knowledge of the 14, you can never understand the knowledge of Allah.

his presence is equal to Allah's presence?

See above.

When you call on him for help, why would you think that he will answer you?

Because he answered everyone in the past, even his enemies.

Does he possess such powers to answer your call?

Yes, because Allah gave him those powers.

please, don't call yourself a shia.

I wouldn't dream of calling myself a Shia. I'm not even worth the dust beneath the feet of the real Shia.

Was Ali next to everyone when he was on earth? Why then do you believe things will change after he passes away?

You are ignorant. On the day of Badr, the enemies were perplexed when they said to each other, we saw Ali (as) over here, and the other would say, we saw him over there. Ali (as) was everywhere.

And this is so easy to understand today. When the machines created by human beings can make one person appear in a hundred places, why is Allah incapable of doing so? Remember Allah Allah Allah. He has all the power.

Read the quran. I quoted around 120 verses proving you wrong. What do you have left? Your own whims and self-made logic.

You didn't prove me wrong at all. All those verses are for the kuffar who bring gods against Allah. Ali and Allah are on the same side.

Using your own ways of thought, I could render praying to Chrishna halal. I could turn bowing down to status of Uzza halal. Actually, every haram can become halal if you want to twist the religion like you guys are doing.

No it is your mind which is twisted. Krishna and Uzza are idols which are against Allah. People prayed to them as if they could help independently

Ali helps because Allah allowed him.

The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said YA ALI on every occasion and yet those who claim to follow his sunnah twist verses of the Quran to prove it is incorrect. First pronounce takfir on the Prophet (pbuh) if you dare then speak.

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The Holy Prophet (pbuh) said YA ALI on every occasion and yet those who claim to follow his sunnah twist verses of the Quran to prove it is incorrect. First pronounce takfir on the Prophet (pbuh) if you dare then speak.

Rather Qurna shows his true prayer, which was to ask Allah (swt) of a Sultanan Naseera.

And he specifically told him to say that , in Quran.

Whatever Mushrikeen will stay on their Shirk, I know, I use to do the same twistin... (it was not easy leaving it, becasue Shirk is the worse sin, it be better I went and had fun in clubs that had done what i did, making me lowest of the low, lower then my friends whom went out and had fun, but plan on repenting, but wre foolish and impatient)...

It was easy for me to do this? It's not. But you will be free Socrates. Just be sincere and accept the truth.

I will write a thread in detial about the Signed ask for, which has to do with the light guidance type help people talk abouit, and also about the issue of asking them to pray for you....and with hadiths...

Edited by MysticKnight
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Rather Qurna shows his true prayer, which was to ask Allah (swt) of a Sultanan Naseera.

And he specifically told him to say that , in Quran.

Whatever Mushrikeen will stay on their Shirk, I know, I use to do the same twistin... (it was not easy leaving it, becasue Shirk is the worse sin, it be better I went and had fun in clubs that had done what i did, making me lowest of the low, lower then my friends whom went out and had fun, but plan on repenting, but wre foolish and impatient)...

It was easy for me to do this? It's not. But you will be free Socrates. Just be sincere and accept the truth.

I will write a thread in detial about the Signed ask for, which has to do with the light guidance type help people talk abouit, and also about the issue of asking them to pray for you....and with hadiths...

All

Are you denying that the Prophet (pbuh) said YA ALI on the day of Khayber?

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I also want to make this last point in this thread. The notion of quicker and less quicker of response is a big thing people just made up about God because they had to have a reasonable justification of why do prefer calling interceders as opposed calling Allah (swt) alone (like suratal Fatiha, and other verses and Saheefa Sajadiya).

We see the Du'a against black magic, they are instanenous, and even Waseele is made instanous. This means the Du'a happens not even millisecond less or more, with the call.

All this is direct calling upon Allah (swt).

So where is this notion and big lie, where is the evidence in Quran and hadiths, that there is bigger waiting period for direct calling?

And it;s twisted backwards, made if as if you don't do this, your being like Iblees not doing sujood to Adam. How the heck did I actually believe the stupidity of all these phrases? I don;'t know. Allah (swt) is the Guardian.

It won't hurt to leave a mistake, and yes, it hurts to know you did the big sin, and big insincerity condemned severely in Quran, but that's part of the issue, it takes a lot of a Christians whom invested his idenitity in trinity concept, to leave it. It takes a lot then for us to leave where we went into extreme.

But we have to do it. We went to far place, and our thoughts are mixed with so much conjecture.. the Advice of rasool (saw) is simole

rise up for God's sake, twos (groups) and singly, and then to ponder....

Or you can just follow people you really don;'t know why you follow and love so much, just like everyone else that was misguided by falsehood was....

It's not out opposition I do this for saking of opposing, it's b/c, this site has become disastarous and I need to do this, because I had a big part in causing this disaster of leaving tawheed and preaching Shirk,.......

If you don't agree with me, then to everyone belongs their own religion. Yes I do believe it;'s shirk and it's my duty to enjoin truth, and specially here, where I misguided many and need to undo my mistakes....

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Are you denying that the Prophet (pbuh) said YA ALI on the day of Khayber?

Nobody said asking help is haram. Praying to people is haram. The Prophet didn't invoke Ali.

Secondly, The Prophet doesn't need waseela according to your own ideas (him being the closest thing to god), so why would he cry to Ali as you try to make it look like it? The more you write, the more you expose yourself.

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Nobody said asking help is haram. Praying to people is haram. The Prophet didn't invoke Ali.

So who said that we pray to Ali? We only ask for help, in exactly the same way as the Prophet asked him for help on the day of Khaybar.

Secondly, The Prophet doesn't need waseela according to your own ideas (him being the closest thing to god), so why would he cry to Ali as you try to make it look like it? The more you write, the more you expose yourself.

The Prophet(pbuh) doesn't need to pray why does he then pray? You only make yourself look silly.

Read your own hadiths. The Prophet (pbuh) prayed to Allah with the waseela of Ali (as) time and time again.

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(salam)

lol me to I think YA ALI is wrong. + some EVEN take help by him; when they are going to carry somethign heavy they said ya moula ali. I never say ya ali/fatimah/hassan/huseyn/muhammed. I allways say ya Allah.

(wasalam)

subhan Allah alhamduliLah Allah Akbar! You are a true servant of the One! May Allah increase your faith exponentially!

"Socrates" & "Orion" ..

bring your evidence that Ali is next to you and that he hears all and knows all? What are you basing this on?? Do you have proof from Quran??

Do you have proof that any prophet called upon any other than Allah in their supplications, prayers, summoning, ??

How do you know that Allah shares His Absoluteness and All-Knowingness with any human?

In your opinion, has Allah done this to any other human before?

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"Ya Ali Madad"

Who are you praying to? Who are you addressing?

We are asking Ali for help just as the Prophet (pbuh) asked Ali for help.

"Ya Ali Madad"

Who are you praying to? Who are you addressing?

We are asking Ali for help just as the Prophet (pbuh) asked Ali for help.

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We are asking Ali for help just as the Prophet (pbuh) asked Ali for help.

You're praying to Ali. You're not asking him. Apply the same logic against your own self. Can we say that you never pray to Allah since you just "ask" Allah?

Secondly, the Prophet never did what you claim he did. He never prayed to other than Allah.

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subhan Allah alhamduliLah Allah Akbar! You are a true servant of the One! May Allah increase your faith exponentially!

"Socrates" & "Orion" ..

bring your evidence that Ali is next to you and that he hears all and knows all? What are you basing this on?? Do you have proof from Quran??

Do you have proof that any prophet called upon any other than Allah in their supplications, prayers, summoning, ??

How do you know that Allah shares His Absoluteness and All-Knowingness with any human?

In your opinion, has Allah done this to any other human before?

Alot of shias believe in the concept of the Wilayat al Takwiniyyah. In simple, this is the belief that Allah (swt) has delegated his power, to give the Imams (as) full authority over the universe. To be honest, I really dont know what to make of that, as many of the leading shia ulema have endorsed it.

May Allah (swt) guide us.

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You're praying to Ali. You're not asking him.

So how come the Prophet (pbuh) was asking him when he said Ya Ali, whereas I'm praying? This sounds like semantics.

Apply the same logic against your own self. Can we say that you never pray to Allah since you just "ask" Allah?

We worship Allah. We don't worship Ali.

Secondly, the Prophet never did what you claim he did. He never prayed to other than Allah.

He said Ya Ali, so I say Ya Ali. If the Prophet (pbuh) never said Ya Ali, I would never say it.

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Alot of shias believe in the concept of the Wilayat al Takwiniyyah. In simple, this is the belief that Allah (swt) has delegated his power, to give the Imams (as) full authority over the universe. To be honest, I really dont know what to make of that, as many of the leading shia ulema have endorsed it.

May Allah (swt) guide us.

Oh my God! This is the most disastrous news I've heard in a long time .. if not my life!

Based on what evidence?? Is there ANY CLEAR EVIDENCE FROM THE QURAN??

any evidence that Allah ever did this to anybody in the Quran?

So how come the Prophet (pbuh) was asking him when he said Ya Ali, whereas I'm praying? This sounds like semantics.

We worship Allah. We don't worship Ali.

He said Ya Ali, so I say Ya Ali. If the Prophet (pbuh) never said Ya Ali, I would never say it.

where is the evidence that Prophet Mohamed (pbuh) ever said " ya Ali" in his heart/supplications/prayers ??

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Oh my God! This is the most disastrous news I've heard in a long time .. if not my life!

Based on what evidence?? Is there ANY CLEAR EVIDENCE FROM THE QURAN??

any evidence that Allah ever did this to anybody in the Quran?

Read this. It talks about Wilayat Takwini in some depth and forwards verses of the Quran to prove the point.

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Read this. It talks about Wilayat Takwini in some depth and forwards verses of the Quran to prove the point.

ok thanks for the link .. read it. Still no evidence that Allah made any human being a master of the universe or something like it.

The story of Jesus (as) is quite clearly about single worldly events. He healed a guy, then made a bird and brought a human out of his dead state into a living state. This does not mean that God delegated everything in the universe to any human! Come on, if the clerics passed it there must be more solid evidence or??

And the hadeeth about Ali (as) also don't indicate that he became more than a great & amazing human being on earth with angels fighting by his side in his worldly fights.

Please can anybody give me solid evidence here??

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ok thanks for the link .. read it. Still no evidence that Allah made any human being a master of the universe or something like it.

The story of Jesus is quite clearly about single worldly events. He healed a guy, then made a bird and brought a human out of his dead state into a living state. This does not mean that God delegated everything in the universe to any human! Come on, if they clerics passed it there must be more solid evidence or??

And the hadeeth about Ali (as) also don't indicate that he became more than a great & amazing human being on earth with angels fighting by his side in his worldly fights.

Please can anybody give me solid evidence here??

I am reminded about the hadith of Ali (as): "There is enough light for he who wishes to see".

Who are you to distinguish wordly and non worldly events? Allah can delegate authority for whatever he wants. He has the power over all things.

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Read the history of the battle of Khaybar.

ok read about it before .. what's your point please?

I am reminded about the hadith of Ali (as): "There is enough light for he who wishes to see".

Who are you to distinguish wordly and non worldly events? Allah can delegate authority for whatever he wants. He has the power over all things.

who am i to distinguish?? Who are you to ask me who i am to distinguish??

Give me evidence from the Quran preferably, like i gave you clear evidence before. We are not to speculate and invent here .. innovations in religion are wrong!

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ok read about it before .. what's your point please?

All the companions were useless, and therefore the Prophet (pbuh) called out YA ALI on the fortieth morning. Therefore it is the sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) to say YA ALI.

who am i to distinguish?? Who are you to ask me who i am to distinguish??

Give me evidence from the Quran preferably, like i gave you clear evidence before. We are not to speculate and invent here .. innovations in religion are wrong!

Evidence from the Quran was given (regarding Isa (as)) but you disregarded it calling it "wordly"

YA ALI YA ALI YA ALI

I say it more if it means that it burns the hearts of the enemies.

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All the companions were useless, and therefore the Prophet (pbuh) called out YA ALI on the fortieth morning. Therefore it is the sunnah of the Prophet (pbuh) to say YA ALI.

question concerning this? was Ali (as) there?

Evidence from the Quran was given (regarding Isa (as)) but you disregarded it calling it "wordly"

YA ALI YA ALI YA ALI

I say it more if it means that it burns the hearts of the enemies.

Well you ain't burning me with your crying for anybody. You'll be the one suffering the burning consequences. I am among the people who only calls out to Allah! And who follows the clear signs in Allah's holy book! You failed to give me any clear answers or evidence! You only referred to Isa (as) events that took place on earth documented by christian sources as well; and taking liberty to come up with your far-fetched stories .. how do you get from these events of Jesus (as) performing his miracles, to Ali (as) being all-hearing and all-knowing and Allah delegating all His power to Ali (as) ??? where is that link?? give the evidence of this if u speak the truth!!!

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Well you ain't burning me with your crying for anybody. You'll be the one suffering the burning consequences. I am among the people who only calls out to Allah! And who follows the clear signs in Allah's holy book! You failed to give me any clear answers or evidence! You only referred to Isa (as) events that took place on earth documented by christian sources as well; and taking liberty to come up with your far-fetched stories .. how do you get from these events of Jesus (as) performing his miracles, to Ali (as) being all-hearing and all-knowing and Allah delegating all His power to Ali (as) ??? where is that link?? give the evidence of this if u speak the truth!!!

All the evidence is there. You refuse to see it.

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All the evidence is there. You refuse to see it.

ok again ..

where is the link between Isa (as) performing his miracles and your conclusion that Ali (as) can see all and hear all and knows all???

how do you expect any true muslim believer to buy into this when the Quran speaks against it, and you don't have any proof of that link? Who said that this is the case??

I gave you evidence from the Quran against it .. nobody proved me wrong! Come on guys .. where is the proof / logic here??

and to go back to the battle of khaibar .. Prophet Muhamad (pbuh) delegated the leadership to Ali (as) who was there in front of him and alive. Give me any evidence of any prophet calling or summoning any dead or martyred soul!

Edited by Muhamad
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ok again ..

where is the link between Isa (as) performing his miracles and your conclusion that Ali (as) can see all and hear all and knows all???

If Allah can give permission to Isa (as), he can surely give to Ali (as) who is greater than Isa (as).

and to go back to the battle of khaibar .. Prophet Muhamad (pbuh) delegated the leadership to Ali (as) who was there in front of him and alive. Give me any evidence of any prophet calling or summoning any dead or martyred soul!

Ali (as) is alive.

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If Allah can give permission to Isa (as), he can surely give to Ali (as) who is greater than Isa (as).

It's not about who is greater here. It's about bringing me evidence that Allah giving Isa (as) powers to perform miracles means that Ali (as) is all knowing all seeing and is ruling the universe???

Ali (as) is alive.

OK, but he's not physically in front of you like he was in front of the prophet (pbuh) during the time of battle of Khaibar

Edited by Muhamad
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(bismillah)

Dear fallah,

In another thread you said that Quran is a guide. In fact you implemented that Quran alone is enough as our guide. Right?

But I claim that Allah is our Guide. And furthermore I believe that Allah alone is enough as a Guide. So technically anyone saying that Quran is a guide would be indulging in shirk, cus we know that Allah is the guides of all guides. So why even bother referring to Quran for gidance when Allah is there to Guide us at all times.

Can Quran know what kind of or how much guidance you need? If so does it mean Quran is all knowing????

Is reading Quran considered a form of worship,,,,and worship is reserved for Allah only

Can Quran refuse to guide someone?

Can someone kiss quran thinking that he may gain sawab

Can someone approach Quran for guidance when Allah is Higher in status.

How can Allah and Quran both be our guides at the same time??????

Please explain. I am waiting.

WS

The Quran is from Allah (SWT) which He revealed to Prophet Muhammed. The Quran is not a living thing so how can you commit shirk when you look to the Quran for guidance? Those are Allah SWT words they are not Allah.

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The Quran is from Allah (SWT) which He revealed to Prophet Muhammed. The Quran is not a living thing so how can you commit shirk when you look to the Quran for guidance? Those are Allah SWT words they are not Allah.

You are right. The post was a hypothetical question and not an expression of my belief.

Looking at Quran for guidance is not Shirk. In fact it is a form of Worship and something of great reward (sawab).

And asking Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bait (A) to pray for us is also not Shirk.

Shirk would be if someone believes that Quran, Rasool (S) or Ahlul Bait (A) are partners with Allah who can guide us or help us independently. These are the Wasila or means for guidance. The real help comes from Allah weather you approach Quran, Rasool (S) or Ahlul Bait (A).

WS

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It's not about who is greater here. It's about bringing me evidence that Allah giving Isa (as) powers to perform miracles means that Ali (as) is all knowing all seeing and is ruling the universe???

The Prophet said "Whoever wishes to see Adam in his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance, Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion should look at Ali ibn Abi Talib."

The meaning of this hadith is simple: whatever the Prophets (as) did, Ali (as) can do it better.

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The Prophet said "Whoever wishes to see Adam in his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance, Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion should look at Ali ibn Abi Talib."

The meaning of this hadith is simple: whatever the Prophets (as) did, Ali (as) can do it better.

:yaali: YA ALI !!!

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Guest Muhamad

The Prophet said "Whoever wishes to see Adam in his knowledge, Noah in his piety, Abraham in his forbearance, Moses in his strength, and Jesus in his worship and devotion should look at Ali ibn Abi Talib."

The meaning of this hadith is simple: whatever the Prophets (as) did, Ali (as) can do it better.

It is clear this hadeeth of the prophet (pbuh) was said when Ali (as) as physically on earth. In today's context we can interpret this to mean that we should study what Ali (as) said or did. But surely it does not say that we are to call upon him or summon him after he's not around anymore, the way we communicate with Allah.

And again, there is no proof that dead people or martyred people are all-knowing or that they can hear us when we call them. The quran says the opposite thousands of times! do we ignore Allah's signs because of some far-off interpretations of ahadeeth?? .. also taking into consideration that ahadeeth are NOT perfect ..

004.082 
YUSUFALI: Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

meaning the the ahadeeth are full of discrepancy.

to come up with conclusions we need to be scientific, rational and sure about what we say.

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It is clear this hadeeth of the prophet (pbuh) was said when Ali (as) as physically on earth. In today's context we can interpret this to mean that we should study what Ali (as) said or did. But surely it does not say that we are to call upon him or summon him after he's not around anymore, the way we communicate with Allah.

And again, there is no proof that dead people or martyred people are all-knowing or that they can hear us when we call them. The quran says the opposite thousands of times! do we ignore Allah's signs because of some far-off interpretations of ahadeeth?? .. also taking into consideration that ahadeeth are NOT perfect ..

004.082 
YUSUFALI: Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy.

meaning the the ahadeeth are full of discrepancy.

to come up with conclusions we need to be scientific, rational and sure about what we say.

All theses people do is worship fake scholars instead of Allah. They've turned the Imams into Prophets, and the Prophets as demigods by praying to them. It's polytheism, and those who practice or hold such belief are guilty of kufr and shirk.

7 pages and nobody gave me one supplication that Allah has thaught us in the quran where other than Allah was invoked.

one of the reasons I left this forum

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All theses people do is worship fake scholars instead of Allah. They've turned the Imams into Prophets, and the Prophets as demigods by praying to them. It's polytheism, and those who practice or hold such belief are guilty of kufr and shirk.

7 pages and nobody gave me one supplication that Allah has thaught us in the quran where other than Allah was invoked.

one of the reasons I left this forum

íóÇ ÃóíõøåóÇ ÇáóøÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÇÓúÊóÚöíäõæÇ ÈöÇáÕóøÈúÑö æóÇáÕóøáóÇÉö ۚ Åöäóø Çááóøåó ãóÚó ÇáÕóøÇÈöÑöíäó {153}

[2:153] O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.

Why seek assistance from prayer? Why not seek assistance directly from Allah?

æóäõäóÒöøáõ ãöäó ÇáúÞõÑúÂäö ãóÇ åõæó ÔöÝóÇÁñ æóÑóÍúãóÉñ áöáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ۙ æóáóÇ íóÒöíÏõ ÇáÙóøÇáöãöíäó ÅöáóøÇ ÎóÓóÇÑðÇ {82}

[17:82] And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, and it adds only to the perdition of the unjust.

The Qur'an is a healing for the believers! Oh dear this is shirk!

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(salam)

Time for this topic to go back in the Shia-Sunni forum.

If you guys/gals see Sunnis/Salafis posting anything that is contrary to the teaching of ahlul bayt outside of the Shia-Sunni forum, then please use the report post button. We'll take care of it. Thanks.

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íóÇ ÃóíõøåóÇ ÇáóøÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇ ÇÓúÊóÚöíäõæÇ ÈöÇáÕóøÈúÑö æóÇáÕóøáóÇÉö ۚ Åöäóø Çááóøåó ãóÚó ÇáÕóøÇÈöÑöíäó {153}

[2:153] O you who believe! seek assistance through patience and prayer; surely Allah is with the patient.

Why seek assistance from prayer? Why not seek assistance directly from Allah?

æóäõäóÒöøáõ ãöäó ÇáúÞõÑúÂäö ãóÇ åõæó ÔöÝóÇÁñ æóÑóÍúãóÉñ áöáúãõÄúãöäöíäó ۙ æóáóÇ íóÒöíÏõ ÇáÙóøÇáöãöíäó ÅöáóøÇ ÎóÓóÇÑðÇ {82}

[17:82] And We reveal of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, and it adds only to the perdition of the unjust.

The Qur'an is a healing for the believers! Oh dear this is shirk!

In salah, we ask God's help. We should seek God's help directly with Salah and with patience.... This is not a verse to say you should seek help from other then Allah.

Quran is written by Allah, but it has no avail, not to the very least, when people don't sincerely turn to him often, and this in his own words "none remembers save him whom turns to him often".

Without Anaba, Quran will not avail. It's healing and mercy to the believers whom are sincere in the pledge "Thee do we worship and thee do we seek help from", otherwise it says it increases the unjust in perdition.

wa salam

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