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In the Name of God بسم الله

Questions That Need Answers

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What do you think about asking the origins of each member here in the forum and see if this practice of calling on other than Allah is a cultural practice or not?

It;s not cultural. It;s planned by Sahers whom know what they are doing. Ismail Leaders are part of the Jinn Worshipping movement... they implanted it, and others work, they spread, Satan encourage its....

It's to break the religion apart, the firmest thing, was to rely on Allah's (swt) Ultimate essence and realize all intercession is only by his permission, he permits for whom he risen in high rank, but also the interceded God must be pleased with him, so it makes no sense to address them without asking then Allah (swt) to permit them and be pleased with you (ie. him being the real interceder)

It said there is no interceder but Allah (swt). They want to make it as this means something complicated, like independant as if universe is not in his control, when thisis not true. Mushrikeen acknowldge God as Ultimate Lord and if he doesn't allow something in this sense it won't happened.

they beleive God however delegated to "sons" and "gods" from him, which Quran says in reality, such would be but elect servants whom act by his command, that is waht belongs to the most highest whom are with him, but it says such do not avial anything...at all... nothing...this whom if true would be elect servants of God, truly high, avail nothing so to only call upon Allah (swt), as in hands is the malakut of all things, as Imams all taught increase and decrease is all in the hands of God and no one else.

As many hadiths teach, to only ask Allah (swt). But if people want to say the very such servants that are elect is asking Allah (swt), they should see Quran said what they imagine when they say Gods, would be such elect servants, but they don't control and it is calling other hten God in this context.

So it's clear, however, with obedience and following, it's the only exception, that is why in 5:55, it means Master, not love type meaning because God deserves most love and his firendship is greater then all others, he's very close to his servants, so it can only mean Master, not Guardian, not anythign else...

It's test 5:55, because if we give any meaning then "authority", we are equating with God in something that he has unique claim in, but Authority is one and the same, because obeying them is obeying God, but the principle is Mastership of God, not mastership of Imams, they aren not princile, this is why it's shirk to associate with his authority, to make a person as a principle Authority is Shirk.

wa salam

br fallah, how about I make a thread about this with many verses showing they are off from tawheed along with numerous hadiths.

Jinn worshippers inflitrate all, some peopel say call shte spiritual dragons, falshes of light, boom, they thhink they are guided.... it's Satan, it's not even pure and holy the light, they see, it;s disconencted....

\Others call Angels..other calls 'sacred letters", once u enter this falsehood, others say call Ahlebayt, but the appearing will not be Ahlebat, just liek the Jinn are not Angels, but those whom worship them and follow them and make them a princple in their life, their number one turned ot and priority, they think they are Angles or Ascended Spirits, etc.... it becomes very hard to get out. Teh Sahers in Suratal Taha only got out by witnessing the purity in Harun (as) and Musa (as) and beautiful Names of God through that. And they say Lord of the Worlds. Lord of Musa and Harun....

They understood, they saw purity, power, resolve, something greater then what they an ever achiece int them, and they submitted. Others however, they just see everything same....

New Agers think they are being spiritual, but this is the Taghut of the Unseen, they get into a world they should not ever enter, casue it's based on falsehood, and lies.....

The only way to stay out of that, is Tawheed, and this why it's trying to be broken up, tons of Du'as of Ahelbaty (as), clear explanationin Quran, hadiths... but they make it ambigious......

There is no toehr way God could have said anything at all at all, to say not to call others then him in the sense you and I believe in. This is as clear as it get's. It's the same with marriage. There is nothing God could have said to make it clearer, what is marriage and what is zinaa.....

But if people come their attached to Dunya, they will not see no matter how clear a subject is.

wa salam

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Did it say "Had they only, supplicated to Allah's Messenger?

This verse is against you.

Read it again and see if it speaks about an ordinary physical action of going to the Prophet, or if it speaks of praying to Rasul. If it was praying to Rasul, then they didn't need to come to him. Our Prophet is human, not a God.

The verse states that they would have been forgiven if, after having approached the Holy Prophet, they asked Allah for His forgiveness and the Holy Prophet had asked for them to be forgiven. Either the Holy Prophet already knew that they have come here seeking forgiveness, and thus he prayed for their forgiveness, or they asked him to pray for their forgiveness.

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Btw-Wahabis are right about something.

Lordship is something belongs to God Alone. Just as giving authority to others when it belongs to God is Shirk and Worshipping the Taghut...the same happens.. when beings are given Lordship, in the sense they can decide things for you, avail you, and make decisions for your request...

This is Worship. Allah is a name of worship, but the highest greatness in hearts in we have is that which is most ultimately desired (so dunya loved becomes shirk), this is was the biggest idol of people of Ibrahim (as) , had to do with their wordly bond.....also Authority....we have high reverence for it, which is why we obey.... obedience is Worship, that is why the principle of all obedience has to be God, he says "and if you obey them then you are Mushrikoon", and then there is Lordship, that whom controls things for you, avails you, can decide things for you, this is Ultiamte God said for himself alone.

Lord of mankind

King of Mankid

God of mankid.

They try to take these 3 away from God.

Worship meant this, it meant this level, whatever is given this level, you are making your self ensalved to them while God is the Lord, Master and the one you desire. Whom desired the world became ensalved to falsehood he would never find but go futher from God. Whom enslaved himself to false authorities only became ensalved to disobedience and rebellion against God, the true King, and whom ensalived himself to others contorlling things for him set up a Lord and made him ensalved to them, in their hands....all this is just One Name in reality, it's Allah, they are trying to take the station of Allah and bring it down to to others.

Lord by calling others then God by this "he gave them power" whichis what Mushrikeen said, and that calling them and revering them in this sense is Worship.

When you call Ali in this sense, you will then have the worse thing happen to you, that you see an falshy imagy thing, in you, but it;s not Ali (as), it's not pure, not holy, not him...

You might never be able to recognize Imam Ali (as) the true brave human he was, nto some jinn flasy thing, but they are lights in the sense they pure blessed human spirits, give light and wisdom, and manfiest God's holy Name, not just "flash", and it must be them....

However, they become more uncleann, and they don't call God, they call others constnatly then, and God is just for creation, no relationship with him.

God is the Ultimate Friend, and so we have to seek a relaitonshiop with him that is unique to him adn God has made this through supplication to him...and doesn't want u in this enslaving yourself to his hands, put others with that response and favoring....he however wants you to know,t hat he he has servants, that have them pray for you, because humanity is bonded and creation are bonded, and we can pray for one another as welll... but they want' be permitted to do this unless he is pleased, and asking only from God is part of the pleasure requirement

And sujood was always only to Allah (swt). Sujood is acknowledgement of authority, Adam (as) was like the Kaba, but it was not to Adam (as), this is God's words "the sun and moon belong to Allah, so to him make your prostration" and for Yusuf (as), it was due to kingship but it was really again, pledge of obedience ot God,a nd he was like th ekaba

The final religion has made a physical house the only thing to be prostrated to but we know in reality, this means Allah (swt), it's just a symbol right?

Same with Ahlebaty (as), God is the Principle, not them. They are door of prostration, but not really the prostrated to. We obey them to obey God.

BTW - those whom Worshipped the Sun and prostrated to it, where in the occult, and worshipped the uncleann Sun which is false...there is always false and correct.

There is correct Sun and Guidance, and false one.... Both Freemasons and believers believe in spiritual guide of time, but they are worlds apart.... yes theri sun is bright...he is the center of the Dajal system.. and can even be said to be the very Taghut himself, but he is not the real guide.

Jinn can give a sort of tanquility, like TahaSyed left Shiism, and he felt Sukoon, but this was false...so be caerful.. it can feel like yes therei is repsonse, but is clean, is it pure? or you opening yourself to sayateeen deceiving you??

It's a test..... a person whom falls to shirk, it;s hard to get out.

Abu Baker and Umar never stopped believing their Jinn and gods, and they opened up for destruction.... they're planning is in Suratal Tahreem.....

Can you recongize Abu Baker and Umar now? Praise as if the highest, but really are sorcerers whom know how to misguide people and plant seeds of misguidance, as they are connected to the past history of Firon

The Firon and Haman, was Abu Baker and Umar.... they were said ambigiously, but revealed in Suratal Tahreem,.... it became known they were the Firon and Haman of the leaders of Quryash...

He married their daughers to expose them as ordered by God, for suratal Tarheem

Can you recognize the Abu Baker and Umars praised but work to destroy us? There is many of them now...High in people eys through sayateen, and nothing else then that.

And we lost a pillar against them Fadlallah (God raise him to honorable rank inshallah).....

Edited by DarkKnight
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They want to take the station of

"What is whom responds to the distressed when he calls upon him" to others.

That is name of Allah, and his names are one. It's a station that is the Highest station he will not allow for tohers, just as nothing is Utlimately High, God made this a unique station for him, and it's whom does so, and doesn't accept others turning to others then Him for that.

Layman, GhulamSyeda, others, for all you know, are people deceiving you like the deciever decieved Adam (as) "I swear to God I wish you well"

Allah (swt) is Al-Mujeeb, and there is no Al-Mujeeb other then Him, the Ahad, not servants with him whom he guides with by his command, whom are nothing to him, and will never be given this position as it belongs to him.

wa salam

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Br. fallah, I am still waiting......

My thread, I was the one who asked questions, I'm the one who is waiting. Your questions are laughable, you claim to be a Muslim and you're asking us why should we read the quran? You have a problem distinguishing the current dimnesion and the rest of the existing worlds. You are living here. You live in this dimension. This world is a physical world where you belong and where you interact with the different things in this world. Theses interactions is part of the test Allah made for us. You go beyond the limits and want to interact with things that are beyond this realm when clearly Allah has made haram the cult of magic and the rest of things that lead to it. Calling on the dead is witchcraft, but you're too hardheaded to understand this. As for saying that the imams and the Prophet are not dead in the physical sense, then please tell me why did Allah appoint succesors to the Prophet, and why do you cry for Hussein over and over again each year if he's still alive.

ALI IS NOT DEAD. HIS OFFICE IS EVERYWHERE. Allah GAVE HIM ALL THE CAPABILITIES.

Ali isn't dead? Can you go please hit your face with a sword covered with poison? Let's see if you won't die.

Let me remind you that Allah didn't create another God. You're exceeding the limits.

br fallah, how about I make a thread about this with many verses showing they are off from tawheed along with numerous hadiths.

I already posted the evidence in another thread. Here:

2:165

2:186

4:116

4:117

6:14

6:19

6:40

6:41

6:56

6:63

6:64

6:71

7:28

7:29

7:37

7:55

7:191

7:192

7:194

7:196

7:197

10:18

10:66

10:104

10:106

11:101

13:14

13:16

15:96

16:20

16:27

16:53

16:86

17:22

17:39

17:42

17:67

18:14

18:15

18:52

19:48

22:12

22:13

22:62

22:71

22:73

23:117

26:213

27:62

28:62

28:64

28:74

28:88

29:65

30:13

30:35

30:52

31:32

32:4

34:22

35:14

35:40

39:3

39:8

39:38

39:43

39:49

40:12

40:14

40:20

40:60

40:66

40:74

41:47

41:48

43:86

46:4

46:5

50:26

72:18

72:20

72:22

74:48

Ignore the Quran more.

My God says this:

22:73 O mankind! A similitude is coined, so pay ye heed to it: Lo! those on whom ye call beside Allah will never create a fly though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly took something from them, they could not rescue it from it. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought!

40: 60 And your Lord says: "Call on Me; I will answer your (Prayer): but those who are too arrogant to serve Me will surely find themselves in Hell - in humiliation!"

End of discussion. The verse is clear.

May Allah destroy those who disrespect his unity and his attributes by giving a share of his deity to others.

To those who read this thread with a sincere thirst for truth, look at the evidence and judge according to what Allah has said, not according to what people, culture, stories have been narrated.Look at how they give asma' al husna to other than Allah by their practice. Look at how they believe that Ali is nearer to us than Allah, when Allah has said "we are nearer to him than his jugular vein". Read the verses, don't do what this guy is doing by twisting, inventing concepts, and ignoring the Book of guidance. Look at how he hasn't given one dua in the Quran when other than Allah was invoked. Look at how shaytan, the most evil of beings, didn't invoke other than Allah and Allah has granted his wish, thus destroying the basis of the idea that a sinner cannot invoke Allah or that Allah will not answer them. Look at the Quran and judge accordingly.

1. Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-knowing [2:127]

2. Our Lord! Make of us Muslims, bowing to Thy (Will), and of our progeny a people Muslim, bowing to Thy (will); and show us our place for the celebration of (due) rites; and turn unto us (in Mercy); for Thou art the Oft-Returning, Most Merciful [2:128]

3. Our Lord! Grant us good in this world and good in the hereafter, and save us from the chastisement of the fire [2:201]

4. Our Lord! Bestow on us endurance, make our foothold sure, and give us help against the disbelieving folk [2:250]

5. Our Lord! Condemn us not if we forget or fall into error [2:286]

6. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden Like that which Thou didst lay on those before us [2:286]

7. Our Lord! Lay not on us a burden greater than we have strength to bear. Blot out our sins, and grant us forgiveness. Have mercy on us. Thou art our Protector; Help us against those who stand against faith [2:286]

8. Our Lord! (they say), Let not our hearts deviate now after Thou hast guided us, but grant us mercy from Thine own Presence; for Thou art the Grantor of bounties without measure [3:8]

9. Our Lord! Thou art He that will gather mankind Together against a day about which there is no doubt; for Allah never fails in His promise. [3:9]

10. Our Lord! We have indeed believed: forgive us, then, our sins, and save us from the agony of the Fire [3:16]

11. Our Lord! We believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. Then write us down among those who bear witness [3:53]

12. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and anything We may have done that transgressed our duty: Establish our feet firmly, and help us against those that resist Faith [3:147]

13.Our Lord! Not for naught Hast Thou created (all) this! Glory to Thee! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire [3:191]

14. Our Lord! Any whom Thou dost admit to the Fire, Truly Thou coverest with shame, and never will wrong-doers Find any helpers! [3:192]

15. Our Lord! We have heard the call of one calling (Us) to Faith, 'Believe ye in the Lord,' and we have believed. [3:193]

16. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins, blot out from us our iniquities, and take to Thyself our souls in the company of the righteous [3:193]

17. Our Lord! Grant us what Thou didst promise unto us through Thine apostles, and save us from shame on the Day of Judgment: For Thou never breakest Thy promise [3:194]

18. Our Lord! We believe; write us down among the witnesses. [5:83]

19. O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from thee; and provide for our sustenance, for thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs) [5:114]

20. Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost. [7:23]

21. Our Lord! Send us not to the company of the wrong-doers [7:47]

22. Our Lord! Decide Thou between us and our people in truth, for Thou art the best to decide. [7:89]

23.Our Lord! Pour out on us patience and constancy, and take our souls unto thee as Muslims (who bow to thy will)! [7:126]

24. Our Lord! Make us not a trial for those who practise oppression; And deliver us by Thy Mercy from those who reject (Thee) [10:85-86]

25. O our Lord! Truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven [14:38]

26. O our Lord! And accept my Prayer. [14:40]

27. O our Lord! Cover (us) with Thy Forgiveness - me, my parents, and (all) Believers, on the Day that the Reckoning will be established! [14:41]

28. Our Lord! Bestow on us Mercy from Thyself, and dispose of our affair for us in the right way! [18:10]

29. Our Lord! We fear lest he hasten with insolence against us, or lest he transgress all bounds [20: 45]

30. Our Lord! We believe; then do Thou forgive us, and have mercy upon us: For Thou art the Best of those who show mercy [23: 109]

31. Our Lord! Avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,- Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in. [25: 65-66]

32. O my Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous [25:74]

33. Our Lord is indeed Oft-Forgiving Ready to appreciate (service) [35: 34]

34. Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire! [40:7]

35. And grant, our Lord! that they enter the Gardens of Eternity, which Thou hast promised to them, and to the righteous among their fathers, their wives, and their posterity! For Thou art (He), the Exalted in Might, Full of Wisdom. And preserve them from (all) ills; and any whom Thou dost preserve from ills that Day,- on them wilt Thou have bestowed Mercy indeed: and that will be truly (for them) the highest Achievement. [40:8-9]

36. Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith, and leave not, in our hearts, rancour (or sense of injury) against those who have believed. [59:10]

37. Our Lord! Thou art indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful. [59:10]

38. Our Lord! In Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal [60:4]

39. Our Lord! Make us not a (test and) trial for the Unbelievers, but forgive us, our Lord! for Thou art the Exalted in Might, the Wise. [60:5]

40. Our Lord! Perfect our Light for us, and grant us Forgiveness: for Thou hast power over all things. [66:8]

...The right direction is henceforth distinct from error... (Qur'an 2:256)

That's ~120 verses showing that only Allah is to be prayed to.

But they deny, deny, deny.

Edited by fallah
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(bismillah)

Who sees "spiritual dragons", "falshes of light" and "jinn flasy thing"!!!!!!!!

DarkKnight are you serious, bro?

Yes bro, this world exists, Quran talks about Jinn and humans in contact.... if you call other then him, God then ceases to protect you, and will let Jinn decevie you, the requitment is as you relied on falsehood, so then be immersed in it.

wa salam

In du'a Sanam Quraysh, didn;t it talks about Sahers?

You think such Sahers didn't inflitrate Shias....

One goes Ghul

the other taqseer

The balance is in Quran, not in rhetoric and conjecture.

But they deny, deny, deny.

Imams (as) are alive, but it's as Quran states, he commands them himself when to glorify God with a person, we see this in Suratal Saba which has refutation of both extremes.

They are not dead. Don't go one route over the other.

Call upon Allah (swt) only, like the blessed bro Wasil taught us, and believe in the spiritual guidance of Imams, but seek it from God, seek that risq of love of Al-Qurba and guidance from them, from God, as commanded in Quran, like blessed bro Wasil taught us, and it's just about one thing left he needs to do, and it's to accept God's connection, while ofcourse the connection is created and God is devoid of all of it, but it's descent has connection. This is all he has to do, the most belittled one here, was the one speaking sense and guidance.

wa salam

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My thread, I was the one who asked questions, I'm the one who is waiting. Your questions are laughable, you claim to be a Muslim and you're asking us why should we read the quran? You have a problem distinguishing the current dimnesion and the rest of the existing worlds. You are living here. You live in this dimension. This world is a physical world where you belong and where you interact with the different things in this world. Theses interactions is part of the test Allah made for us. You go beyond the limits and want to interact with things that are beyond this realm when clearly Allah has made haram the cult of magic and the rest of things that lead to it. Calling on the dead is witchcraft, but you're too hardheaded to understand this. As for saying that the imams and the Prophet are not dead in the physical sense, then please tell me why did Allah appoint succesors to the Prophet, and why do you cry for Hussein over and over again each year if he's still alive.

You say my questions are laughable. Did you ever think that maybe your questions are laughable??? I see some progress. maybe you are beginning to see some light.

So, dont beat around the bush or bring up new issues. Just answer my questions:

1-Why Muslims use Quran for guidance when you have Allah?

2-How could you pick Quran that you call "an inanimate object" over Allah for guidance when you know that Allah is the true guide?

3-Is Allah dependent on a "Book" for guidance when He can guide His creations without it?

4-By consulting Quran as a guide, are you not making Quran a partner with Allah.......Is that not Shirk?

5-What is the relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran?

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Yes bro, this world exists, Quran talks about Jinn and humans in contact.... if you call other then him, God then ceases to protect you, and will let Jinn decevie you, the requitment is as you relied on falsehood, so then be immersed in it.

wa salam

In du'a Sanam Quraysh, didn;t it talks about Sahers?

You think such Sahers didn't inflitrate Shias....

One goes Ghul

the other taqseer

The balance is in Quran, not in rhetoric and conjecture.

Imams (as) are alive, but it's as Quran states, he commands them himself when to glorify God with a person, we see this in Suratal Saba which has refutation of both extremes.

They are not dead. Don't go one route over the other.

Call upon Allah (swt) only, like the blessed bro Wasil taught us, and believe in the spiritual guidance of Imams, but seek it from God, seek that risq of love of Al-Qurba and guidance from them, from God, as commanded in Quran, like blessed bro Wasil taught us, and it's just about one thing left he needs to do, and it's to accept God's connection, while ofcourse the connection is created and God is devoid of all of it, but it's descent has connection. This is all he has to do, the most belittled one here, was the one speaking sense and guidance.

wa salam

sight.

Have they left this world? If so, it is accepted to say that they are dead. What the verse means is that theses people are in good condition because they were good people. This verse is to make people realize that they shouldn't be afraid of being martyrs because they don't "die" in the sense that anyone who "dies" in this world isn't really dead and will have to meet the Day of Judgement. Even kufars are not dead after their physical death, so please let's understand the purpose of the verse in order to understand it's meaning. It's a metaphor.

When Allah says that the people in Hell won't die nor they will be alive, does it really mean that or does it have a higher meaning? Indeed it has a higher meaning. People in Hell will be alive, but the Fire is so fierce that it is as if they are going to be eradicated, but at the same time, Allah will renew their flesh so that they burn again. Therefore, they are not dead, nor are they alive, metaphorically. But we both know in order to be able to feel pain one has to be alive.

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Dont beat around the bush or bring up new issues.

Just answer my questions:

1-Why use Quran for guidance when you have Allah?

Those whom turn to Allah (swt) often will benefit from Quran, those whom relied on words and letters and others then Allah (swt), will perish...

2-How could you pick Quran that you call "an inanimate object" over Allah for guidance when you know that Allah is the true guide?

Seeking guidance is allowed, but again, Quran to those whom don't listen by pure light, by asking Allah (swt) to protect their hearts adn guide them, will perish. Quran is useless without turning to Allah (swt) alone and asking him Alone and calling upon alone and seeking this assistance from him, knowing all assistance is from him, and his appointed ones, only act to his command and permission.

3-Is Allah dependent on a "Book" for guidance when He can guide His creations without it?

Allah (swt) made the book a trial, it can be a guidance, only with the spirit of Suratal Fatiha, which includes

Iyaka Nabaadooo wa iyaka nasteen. and by this meaning, it means what you understand the first time, before getting into tafsirs and squibling of people..... the thing a child would think it means right away, knowing the help here, no need to define, no need to talk about worldy help of doctors, just that child instinct, what it means, that's it...

4-By consulting Quran as a guide, are you not making Quran a partner with Allah.......Is that not Shirk?

No. but totally irrelvant, raising up somone to the rank of Al-Mujeeb is Shirk, making anyone the mujeebatal Mutara etha du'a is shirk.

5-What is the relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran?

You tell us, you seem to think it doesn't say much so constantly depend on conjecture and doubts.

sight.

Have they left this world? If so, it is accepted to say that they are dead. What the verse means is that theses people are in good condition because they were good people. This verse is to make people realize that they shouldn't be afraid of being martyrs because they don't "die" in the sense that anyone who "dies" in this world isn't really dead and will have to meet the Day of Judgement. Even kufars are not dead after their physical death, so please let's understand the purpose of the verse in order to understand it's meaning. It's a metaphor.

When Allah says that the people in Hell won't die nor they will be alive, does it really mean that or does it have a higher meaning? Indeed it has a higher meaning. People in Hell will be alive, but the Fire is so fierce that it is as if they are going to be eradicated, but at the same time, Allah will renew their flesh so that they burn again. Therefore, they are not dead, nor are they alive, metaphorically. But we both know in order to be able to feel pain one has to be alive.

Salam bro

Whatever the case is, we can only ask Allah (swt) for respond to us our requests that pertain to our eternal well being. Our soul whatever it is going to be, we are going to loose, if we neglected our relationship to God and benefiting form his exalted essence, and if we benefit, it would because he guided us, and we would not be guided if he does not.

Suratal Fatiha is Islam. Everyone when they 1st read loved it. If people chose to neglect it, and twist and do this constantly every day, many times... it's as Quran says "and it do not increase the unjust save in perdition".

The most important of that verse is the first one, "By the Name of Allah....", Ahlebayt (as) are Worshippers of Allah (swt) and give him unique status of being the Mujeeeb and his status of controlling everything for all servants and the one to be asked and the one whom risq is to be sought from....

It's not complicated, the Name of Allah (swt) is wiht us, we know he is the one whom responds ot the distressed one when he calls upon them.....when know he is exalted as such, and we know it's whom should be turned to.

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You say my questions are laughable. Did you ever think that maybe your questions are laughable??? I see some progress. maybe you are beginning to see some light.

So, dont beat around the bush or bring up new issues. Just answer my questions:

1-Why Muslims use Quran for guidance when you have Allah?

2-How could you pick Quran that you call "an inanimate object" over Allah for guidance when you know that Allah is the true guide?

3-Is Allah dependent on a "Book" for guidance when He can guide His creations without it?

4-By consulting Quran as a guide, are you not making Quran a partner with Allah.......Is that not Shirk?

5-What is the relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran?

I'm beating around the bush? I'm the one who made this thread and asked the questions. If you come in to ask questions ignoring my questions, you are the one who is dodging, not I.

1- Because Allah sent the Quran with the Prophetand the Quran is His words and He wants us to read it and understand it.

* clear ordinances, 98:3

* conveyed clearly, 5:16, 10:15

* full of wisdom, 36:2

* guidance to humans, 2:185

* is not Muhammed's sayings, 69:44

* recite as much as you may do with ease, 73:20

2- Seriously, go hit your head with a brick. Allah has created you in this universe with body parts and needs that are complimented by the things that exist in the world in which you are placed. Allah created light and gave you eyes. He created food and gave you hunger. He created love and gave you a heart. tyat's how our world works. If it didn't, there would be no discussion taking place between me and you, because in order to have a discussion you need a logical system in place. What you're doing is questioning the very basis of the bnature of the universe, which has nothing to do with directing an act of worship to other than Allah. You're drowning, and you're trying to drown everyone else with you with questions that have nothing to do with the thread.

3-The quran is Allah's words. If Allah didn't want to guide mankind through the quran he wouldn't have create a Prophet, the Quran, nor people to receive the revelations. Again, it has nothing to do with the subject.

4-Again, you're mixing different realms together. Reading the quran is an act of worship. If you direct your reading in order to make people love you, you're commiting shirk. while reading the Quran for the sake of Allah is tawheed. Likewise, making Salat to other than Allah is shirk. Praying to other than Allah is also shirk. The acts of worship are well defined. If they are done towards other than Allah you fall out of Islam. theses actions include : Salat, Prayer, Fasting, Sadaqa, Killing an animal in the name of Allah, etc.

5- Allah has sent the Prophet to be the example for us. With the Prophet came the Quran, a preserved book that is a source of Guidance for mankind, as stated in the Quran numerous times. The Prophet, being the best example, one should emulate him. Did the Prophet ever invoke other than Allah? Nope, he didn't. Why don't you follow his example? Because you follow only your own desires.

Now, you answer the questions I asked.

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bro it;s like 4:59, there is Tawheed meaning, and Shirk meaning.

The verses everyone can turn Tawheed verse from it's context and place and twist.

Quran is about ideas. If we go against it's ideas, acknowleding words does not matter.

Salafis say Allah is Ahad yet go against it.

It's about the light, it's the light we have to believe in, and I believe in turning to Allah (swt) only and I mean turning in the sense it's explained in Quran, with no need to argue semantics.

By Ali Hassan Hussain, we only call upon our Lord, and ask from him.

Ibrahim (as) didn;t say seek from me Risq as seeking from me is seeking from God. He told people to ask God and seek it from him!

And as for help, just as kings, there is false kings whom have no basis, and kings whom are kings only by the principle that God is the True King and are his Ministers,

there is nothing to be gained in Dunya, or lossed in sickness, this is why Quran says no to grieve on what one loses and not boasting in what one is given either, as everything is in blessed book, you are to guard your blessed book against lies and increase in it's treasures and build your noble city by the help of God seeking guidance from quran and Ahelbayt (as) but calling up Allah (swt) adn Worshipping him, and Du'a is Worshio, like it said in Saheefa Sajadiya, so it's haram to call anone other then Allah (swt).

by the Name of Allah (swt), if this Ahlebayt (as), then Quran teaches to only only call upon Allah (swt) and seek refuge in him, by this light and those souls, so where are people turning to and where are they going?

wa salam

wa salam

So just as their false king, but we can call him a king,

there is false help, everything that perishes, doesn't really help anyone....

This can be seen in Suratal Abu Lahab were it says his wealth didn't avail him at all.....

So there is true help, and that's regarding what remains, and that only is to be sought by Allah (swt).

All other stuff is just formality... if we die from sickness, it doesn't mean it was bad for us to begin with, and with trust of Allah (swt), everything happens good for a believer...

So we only seek help from Allah (swT) but can use the word "help" in the dunya sense, just as we can use it "king" in teh falsehood sense.

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(bismillah)

Those whom turn to Allah (swt) often will benefit from Quran, those whom relied on words and letters and others then Allah (swt), will perish...

Same way, those who turn to Allah (swt) will benefit from Rasool Allah (S) and his Ahlul Bait (A), those who rely on words but no deeds will perish...Allah is the real guide but He also guides us through Quran. Receiving guidance from Quran means receiving guidance from Allah.

Seeking guidance is allowed, but again, Quran to those whom don't listen by pure light, by asking Allah (swt) to protect their hearts adn guide them, will perish. Quran is useless without turning to Allah (swt).

Same way, seeking intercession is allowed, but again, Ahlul Bait (A) to those whom don't listen to and follow their teachings, will not help them and so they will perish. Love of Ahlul Bait (A) does not help without turning to Allah (swt) and following His commands.

asking him Alone and calling upon alone and seeking this assistance from him, knowing all assistance is from him, and his appointed ones, only act to his command and permission

Exactly, we call upon Allah alone and seek assistance from Him. And his appointed ones the Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bait (A) help us only acting to His command and by His permission.

Allah (swt) made the book a trial, it can be a guidance, only with the spirit of Suratal Fatiha, which includes

Iyaka Nabaadooo wa iyaka nasteen. and by this meaning, it means what you understand the first time, before getting into tafsirs and squibling of people..... the thing a child would think it means right away, knowing the help here, no need to define, no need to talk about worldy help of doctors, just that child instinct, what it means, that's it...

And we accept it as it is.

No. but totally irrelvant, raising up somone to the rank of Al-Mujeeb is Shirk, making anyone the mujeebatal Mutara etha du'a is shirk.

Allah is Al-Mujeeb and no one else.

You tell us, you seem to think it doesn't say much so constantly depend on conjecture and doubts.

Let me tell you. The relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran is as follows. Allah is the real Guide, The guide of all guides. He has the power to guide you directly like he guides birds and other creatures, the son, the moon and the universe. But he has created MEANS like the Quran, He has created Quran a means of guidance so that people could turn towards it, read it, ponder over it and find guidance. This is why seeking guidance from Quran is not shirk.

He has created other means too, A child survives and receives nourishment by the milk of his mother. The real life giver is Allah, the real provider is Allah. Mother and milk are just means.

By the same token he has appointed intercessors (as stated in several ayats of quran that you seem to neglect). Allah is the real provider of all our needs. Quran, Allahs names written in it, the intercessors Prophet (S) and his Ahlul Bait (A) they all guide us towards Allah. This is why seeking their intercession towards Allah is not shirk.

On the other hand asking intercession from Uzza would be shirk as Uzza guides you away from Allah.

Prophet (S), Ahlul Bait (A), Quran, ----- direct you towards ------->> Allah

Uzza and the likes <<--------directs you away from --------Allah.

See the arrows going in the opposite direction.

WS

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I don;'t have a problem with means and guidance and Guides, however I will ask Allah (swt) for this since Ya Seen, O hearer of revelation is one part of the equaiton, the other part is that "O Hearing One" to Allah (swt), and with Mohammad (pbuh), we call upon only Allah (swt).

I don't worship that which you worship.

I don't have any issue with intercession, just have to ask Allah (swt) for it, but can address Ahlebayt (as) as formality, just as Rasool (saw) did Du'a as formality on Day of Ghadeer to show truth.

I will addres this issue in Quran in the thread I made. It's been the same rhetoric your Waseela thing is in Quran.

why did God say he has not put a waseela, if they beleived in indepedant, not related to God, type of thing?

This is how htey explained. Today we bring one to status of responding to what we wish, to be other then Allah (swt), by that bringing his Exalted Name down, and giving to what does not have it.

"I only call upon Allah", we will see whom was on Shirk and whom truly had Waseela of Quran and AHlebayt (as) and whom was emmersed in faslehood and conjecture and shirk and kufr isntead on day of judgment, the day when truth will benefit truthful.

You can twist verses just as everyone else does or you can accept them.

People whom can't admit they wer ethe lowest, will never get out of their low state.

The first thing to admit, is we fell to the lowest...I fell to the lowest, I became less then a dust in dignity.....

But there is a way out, to repent, and then follow truth and depend on God, and approach Quran and Ahlebayt (as) and hadiths with that.

God will guide as long as person doesn;'t choose to rely on falsehood and doubts, over sureness and truth and knowledge.

Good luck to you Orion.

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Ali isn't dead? Can you go please hit your face with a sword covered with poison? Let's see if you won't die.

Let me remind you that Allah didn't create another God. You're exceeding the limits.

I said already many times that your Allah is weak and is threatened by my Ali :!!!:

My Allah is strong and is threatened by no one. Ali is alive because Allah made him so.

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The True Imam Ali (as) is a but servant of God that Allah favored, and would not call Lordship to himself, nor did he in his life, teach people to call upon him.

Help means true help, not false help which is refuted in "his wealth did not avail him". That means with regard to wealth of akheera, increase and decrease, to only seek God's help.

Iyaka Nabadu wa iyaka nastaeen

To say we don't only seek help from Allah (swt) by worldly analogies, is like Sunnis saying our Imams (as) didn't rule and were not Kings.

It's the same falsehood. From the Haq view, the only helper is Allah (swt) and only his help is to be sought.

Seher upon a person will not harm a person, if Allah (swt) protects a person and grants him patience, but would even raise him in rank.

So everything is in God's hand, no one else. You can acknowledge this and him being the Lord in control, close to his servants, hearing, going to respond, and calling upon him being Worship and acknowleding whom he is, with no partners, or you can call upon others....

However you can call upon Allah (swt) with Ahelbayt (as) and this is fine. And this one the meanings of calling Allah (swt) by his beautifil Names, but you calling Allah (swt), not Ahlebayt (as).

Ahelbayt (as) are the help of Allah (swt) but you have to seek this from Allah (swt) Alone, the One whom decides, and if you want, you don't have to, you can address Ahlebayt (as) as formality, in that, but the asked is Allah (swt).

Du'a Faraak is asking only Allah (swt) and acknowleding the Imamate of Ahelabyt (as). Why ask Allah (swt) in the very du'a if Imams (as) can decide? It was obvious what was meant by this, is acknowleding them as Guides but God ultimately the one whom decides. Ofcourse, if Allah (swt) grants permission, they will help, and other Du'as of Waseela, just have us asking Allah (swt) for this guidance. Like the long one about Imam Mahdi (as) Ghayba...

Only Allah (swt) is the Lord, there is no below Wazeers to decide affairs of universe, that's is up to him to decide, no one shares in this decision and Mastership, and as for guidance and authority, yes Imams, as for help yes Imams, but you ask Allah (swt) for help, why does Imam (as) teach us to say "o God help me by the obedient spirits" and say "Mohammad is in front of me" without asking Mohammad (saw), and then tell us, later to say "O God I only call upon you".

It's to know, you ask Allah (swt). Yes you need to go to Imams (as), but the gate this guidance is Du'a to Allah (swt) for this guidance. There is no escaping one has to address Allah (swt) and have a relationship with constantly turning to him and not others with him, just Him, you can turn to him with Tawjeeh of Ahlebaty (as), but you rely upon Allah (swt), no helper aside from him, and no interceder except him, by his command, by his orders and pleasure, does any intercession occurs except by him being please. The emphasis on this was to emphasize there is no point of calling upon other then Him, but to call him instead whom is the decider and whom is the Principle.

wa salam

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I said already many times that your Allah is weak and is threatened by my Ali :!!!:

My Allah is strong and is threatened by no one. Ali is alive because Allah made him so.

Your Allah is Ali, and Ali is obviously going to disassociate from you by making him a god besides Allah.

Actions speak louder than words.

My Allah isn't weak rather you are the one insulting Allah's attributes by giving them to humans

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Your Allah is Ali, and Ali is obviously going to disassociate from you by making him a god besides Allah.

Actions speak louder than words.

My Ali is a human being. You are insulting human beings by claiming that anyone who is granted special favours by Allah is a god.

My Allah isn't weak rather you are the one insulting Allah's attributes by giving them to humans

There you go, it proves he is weak.

Allah's attributes have been distributed to all human beings in varying degrees, he has given the 14 more attributes than the rest of human beings.

My Allah is beyond comprehension and imagination while your Allah is sitting on the arsh and will put his leg in hell :!!!:

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Socretes don't mix truth with falsehood. Don't mix with the highness of God's servants with the Station God is unique in.

Don't mix it.

Fallah has stated he is not Salafi, and is searching the truth. He is right about not being allowed to call other humans.

And what attributes do Ahlebayt(as) have that others Propehts (as) don't. All their attributes in Quran has been explained indirectly through Prophets (as), so we don't go this beltitling of other Prophets (as).

Yes they are higher, but it's not like other Prophets (as) weren't "High exalted" or the beautiful NAmes of Allah (swt).

Imam Mahdi (as) Du'as, read them, see about the Name of Allah (Swt) manifested in Musa (as) and Harun (as) to the Saheers and they submitted through it.

So they were all wajhallah, ismallah, etc....

This is what Quran shows. The Name of Allah (swt), this is not first time it comes to creation.

Nuh (as) sailed by it, the Imams (as) all Guide by it.....

The blessed olive tree and mountain is explained and emphasized with Harun (as) and Isa (as).

All their traits we can know of them, is through the traits of the elect ones before them.

This is how it explained them. And the secret of their names are explained by Propehts (as) of hte past....

So we don't do this extreme stuff... we don't know the majesty of any of God's Propehts (as).

We know Ahlebayt (as) are the best... but as far as their traits, it;'s all one explanation, with elect Ahlebayts of the past, with the final Ahlebayt.

The way Quran has explained everything is in the best way. So people don't go to extremes of denial or exageration.

And what is meant by them being Names of Allah (swt) is not that they are the Named in the Names, it's that they;'re souls know God, and call upon God, and manifest him through Glorifying God and Worshipping him.

It's not like Names of God are just words...they are living concept, the beautiful names of God are all united in the blessed heart of God's elect ones, they are all given the book.

The book is the Name of Allah (swt). They are all given it. The one whom had a portion of the knowledge of the book was a companion, otherwsie the Propehts (as) all have Ismal Atham.

This is explained by Ahlebayt (as) but all people can do is just talk about hadiths of Ahlebaty (as) but never go read themselves and ponder over it, just as they don't ponder over Quran.

Ya Ali Madad even if was not Shirk in Rububiya, it's Shirk for Taghut love being the source of it being expressed.....and it's the Jinn Worshpping Ismailis whom brought it to the world...so how can it possibly be good?

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I say Ya Ali Madad because Ali can help me. End of.

Why should I call upon a professor when a primary school teacher can answer my query? Same difference.

who's the primary school teacher and who's the professor? so you call upon more than the One?

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3 pages, nobody answered the questions.

what's your point?

His point is that he belittles Allah by comparing him to creation. He thinks that because you go to a doctor for help that you can pray to other than Allah. This argument is ridiculous:

The analogy is false. Nobody invokes the doctor because everyone knows the human ear cannot listen to everything from everywhere. He's trying to draw a relation between one going to the doctor and one invoking other than Allah. Rather, it would make more sense if we actually invoked the doctor, but we all know only people who belong to mental institutions call on people who are absent believing they can hear them.

Actually if you listen to their argument it is as if shirk doesn't exist in actions only in belief. That's what they are conveying without really saying it. Can we not see that this is obviously false? Doesn't haram exist both in intention and in action? Why then is the basis of our religion which involves actions of worship are suddenly not important to determine shirk and non-shirk?

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Seek help from Allah through prayer and patience, verily Allah is with the patient ones.

And in Salah, we ask Allah (swt) help alone, and to seek no one's help, so kind of circular isn't it, and Imams (as) teach to only Ask Allah (swt) and address him when they guide, and in Patience, we turn to Allah (swt) and avoid the Taghut and calling others and resisting Dunya (this about fasting), and remain steadfast in calling upon Allah (swt) alone, and following his light as opposed to authorities besides that which is but following Sayateen. It means to avoid the Taghut and be firm against it, and here it's emphasizing on fasting going with Salah (Wilayah), love and resistance, just as acceptance of Ahlebayt (as) must come with rejection of Taghut, or it's hypocrisy and two faced (one being a lie).

It is saying the means to seek help from God, it's through connection (Wilayah of ahelabyt) calling Allah (swt) through that blessed Name, and remaining patient on it (Sunnah of Rasool (saw) and Imams (as)) in avoiding other then Allah (swt) and remain patient in his Worship and struggling in his way.

It saying the means to call upon Allah (swt), and refer to him.

Salah is the connection, and this way we constantly seek God;'s help (five times a day).

If you ask his help five times a day, why do you need to turn others then him? Is Ahlebayt (as) more generous then God, that if God has not connected you to them and to the malakut and put a veil, that they will remove it if you ask them as opposed to God?

And patience, because, when people are not patient, they seek the Dunya, and it leads to blindness, and one no longer seeks his help, but seeks what God says has no real avail.

So you need to resist Dunya, to seek help from God in your Akheera..

What it's ironice, it's because we chased Dunya, we thought "help from this teacher" and that and that.... but Dunya is false, so just King there is false king and treu king, there is true availing and true loss....

And true help....

It's telling you the means to seek God's help, because if we chase Dunya, we won't ask God for the right things and won't seek from him what avails us and helps us.

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That you believe in waseela for everything else apart from religion.

He believes in waseela as permitted within the limits. We can use wassila in the realms of our own dimension, otherwise you're just falling into realms you have no knowledge about and attributing divine qualities to people, as you have done to the saints.

respond to the questions and let us see how far you will go to give the attributes of Allah to the slaves of Allah.

Actually, if we think about it even further, can you please tell us what shirk is if this isn't shirk?

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His point is that he belittles Allah by comparing him to creation. He thinks that because you go to a doctor for help that you can pray to other than Allah. This argument is ridiculous:

They follow Mutashabiha as opposed to it's clear signs.

The analogy is false. Nobody invokes the doctor because everyone knows the human ear cannot listen to everything from everywhere. He's trying to draw a relation between one going to the doctor and one invoking other than Allah. Rather, it would make more sense if we actually invoked the doctor, but we all know only people who belong to mental institutions call on people who are absent believing they can hear them.

The analogy is not false because of this. It's fasle because everything in this world neither increases or decreases in anything... it's the Spiritual World that we will acount for, and it's the face of God that remains.

It's like ignoring everyhting Quran has said abotu the delusion of the world.....

I call Canadian government governemtn, but with true eyes, it's a false authroity based on falsehood.

So we can talk "can you help me with this and that", but what truly avails us, is not anything we can seek from creation. The only availing we can get is from God, we can only truly be helped by God. We have no one to help us but God. No one to enrich us but God. But ofcourse Ahlebety (as) are Waseela to Allah (swt).

But it;'s a test, do we call Allah (swt) for this gudiance, or we going to take him out of the equation, take that Responding close Lordship helping Patron Reality of Him that i sunique to him, and give to creation instead?

Just as a fallibe has no right to rule when there is a Ma'asoom, no human no creature no matter how high, has a right to be Lord while there is Allah (swt) that can hear the prayers and respond.

Actually, if we think about it even further, can you please tell us what shirk is if this isn't shirk?

You know what's funny, Shias will see setting authority besides the 12 Imams (as) as Shirk, I agree, it's top down, the principle is because God is the Master.

However, for Lordship, they think this a different matter, we accept obedience, but we can seek Risq from other then Allah (swt)?

Knowledge and words do not benefit anyone without Allah (swt). So much of Quran was saying how Rasool (saw) cannot guide them if they are blind, no one can remove their blidnness but Allah (swt), he warns and conveys, then it's up to Allah to gudie whom he wants, etc... much of Quran is syaing, if they are blind to the lgiht and there is veil between rasool and them, whom can remove it from them??? Only Allah (swt)... this is what it saysl...

Now why we veiled from Imam Mahdi (as) and whom can remove it? Only Allah (swt).

And even shows they don't ahve eyes that see, ears that hear, legs that walk, etc, that even if you were able to call the elect servants of God (sons of God were said to be in fact, really elect servants of God, if such servants existed for the beings they imagined, it would be elect servants whom are Guides and interceder by his permission, not Sons) to directly help them. They also believed they were "lgiht" obviously, as they complained why a human, why not an "Angel"....

So it's saying, they can't even be guided even if these beings can respond to them, so as to help them.

Imam Jaffar (as) shows the disgrace of those whom slander the companions, and it's one of these that is making as if he receives spiritual guidance from Ahlebaty (as).

don't trust no one, not me, not him, not anyone....only follow what you know, the light broguht down, find the truth, then you will find it's people..

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3 pages, nobody answered the questions.

His point is that he belittles Allah by comparing him to creation. He thinks that because you go to a doctor for help that you can pray to other than Allah. This argument is ridiculous:

The analogy is false. Nobody invokes the doctor because everyone knows the human ear cannot listen to everything from everywhere. He's trying to draw a relation between one going to the doctor and one invoking other than Allah. Rather, it would make more sense if we actually invoked the doctor, but we all know only people who belong to mental institutions call on people who are absent believing they can hear them.

Actually if you listen to their argument it is as if shirk doesn't exist in actions only in belief. That's what they are conveying without really saying it. Can we not see that this is obviously false? Doesn't haram exist both in intention and in action? Why then is the basis of our religion which involves actions of worship are suddenly not important to determine shirk and non-shirk?

035.013

YUSUFALI: He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.

035.014

YUSUFALI: If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". and none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things.

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035.013

YUSUFALI: He merges Night into Day, and he merges Day into Night, and he has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law): each one runs its course for a term appointed. Such is Allah your Lord: to Him belongs all Dominion. And those whom ye invoke besides Him have not the least power.

035.014

YUSUFALI: If ye invoke them, they will not listen to your call, and if they were to listen, they cannot answer your (prayer). On the Day of Judgment they will reject your "Partnership". and none, (O man!) can tell thee (the Truth) like the One Who is acquainted with all things.

I also want to emphasize other verses show, that the ones they call sons and called besides God, where "whom act by his command..." ....

And verse show they are the elect ones, where there to be sons and daughter,s, ti would be elected ones from his creation.... so when it's saying "rather they are honored servants, and by his acts do they command..."

It made it clear, that all these verses apply to Imams (as).....

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I also want to emphasize other verses show, that the ones they call sons and called besides God, where "whom act by his command..." ....

And verse show they are the elect ones, where there to be sons and daughter,s, ti would be elected ones from his creation.... so when it's saying "rather they are honored servants, and by his acts do they command..."

It made it clear, that all these verses apply to Imams (as).....

Absolutely! When we call for help spiritually we call for Allah. That's for muslims anyway.

Physically we can go see Doctors .. in the name of Allah

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Socrates, it won't hurt to say "O Lord I have been unjust to myself..." and just leave it.

I advocated this Shirk like you at one point...going back forth.......

It;s confusing... but i'll make it simple...

Help is only from Allah (swt), it's Risq (lvoe of Ahelbaty) and connection to the Light....now what does Quran say to seek that Risq from? That is the help of Allah, but whom to seek the help from ? It;s source....

Quran showed to turn to God through Wilayah of Ali, but to turn to God.....

Imams (as) said "by wilayah of Ali", they didn't say "turn to Ali to turn to Allah", the latter is shirk, the former is the way.

You can't ascend without companionship of Ahlebaty (as) and we seek theri assistance, but from Allah (swt), not anyone else. It's God whom all praise belongs to anyways, so why the heck call upon anyone else.

It's not liek anyone loves creation more then the Creator. It's not like he doesn't respond. It's not like Ahlebayt (as) didn;t teach us to address him.

Now what you are saying sort of thinking, is like saying Angels are lights that act according to that light, so they can come down to any creation and talk to him, however they like, adn tell him to communicate things to humans....

Is this true? No...

Only by God's command can it happen right?

We say no way will this happen outside his control...

But you want to make guidance of Ahlebaty (as) and connection to the Light and Malakut, something not in the hands of God, but hands in others?

And doesn't God say not to hasten his Signs? Doesn't he say he Guides to his Light whom he pleases....

You can't make up your own method how to get guidance.....

Yes Imam Mahdi (as) is the Door to Allah (swt) but Du'a to Allah (swt) is the door to Imam Mahdi (as).

Didn;t Imams (as) teach us Du'as? Didn't they calll Du'a Worship?

Instead of pleading to Allah (swt) to take away love of Dunya and bring together you and Mohammad and his family, liek taught in Du'a Abu Thamalee, you want to call Ahlebayt (as) for this decision??

The only thing that put's a veil between us and Imams (as) is our sins, and only God could forgive those and remove the veil adn remove the evil....

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Absolutely! When we call for help spiritually we call for Allah. That's for muslims anyway.

Physically we can go see Doctors .. in the name of Allah

Physically, we should not see harm or benefit, in shorter life or longer, we don't know, in gaining wealth or in poverty, in sickness or health, none of it is the face of God that remains, so it's not seeking real help, b/c it doesn't avail us.

If we believe in the next world, then we know we can only seek what desire from God, there is no one to assist us and avail us and enrich us, but him. Even Rasol (saw) was told he cannot guide whom he loves, cannot avail anyone, it's all in God's hands.....

No one can ask Angels to help them. This is what Sahers do. They tell you Irfan stuff, tehn they tell you to call Angels.... The Kabala, Sufis, Al-Jafr, it's all the same... ahlebayt is just another word for this. Angels are not the Jinn whom the mushrikeen believe in, they are not those appearing to them, the mushrikeen however were proud, they htough they knew what Mohammad (saw) didn't, they say why not an Angel brought down, b/c to them, these beings they seek assistance from are high, but Mohammad a mere human is low... they tell him the same thing... Why you telling us to Call Alone, we revere these things, and devote ourselves to them and call them , only for them to bring us closer to God... they are the means.... this is the very Waseela God said was a lie...

everytime Anbiya broguht the truth, eventually, this Waseela junk was teh talk..the only difference right now, is that no one will say the word Worship for them...the word abada of what it tradionally means is being lost..... but for sure, if you consider a thing have lordship over you, can respond ot your prayers, seek their help in this sense, you were associating with God in this being indebted to and enslaved to.... it talks abotu different Owners of a slave.... we read in Quran often how we belong to Allah, whole creation is his, that's why he is close to his creation, yet people want to take that relationship of the Creator that belongs only to the Originator....

People want to call Imam Ali (as).... It's God that judges his servants. He sees your sincerity in your Du'a and judges it

In no one else hands is increase and decrease.....

there is no way Quran could have said anything clearer about this issue. What form of words can God have said to make this issue clearer?

If we leave everything to intrepretation that is not the manifest meaning, then what happens to the verse of Khatamal Anbiya? Is that only verse Muslims emphasize about clear meaning but don't care about the rest of Quran? They can twist rest of Quran, just don't give a farfetch meaning to that one?

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Brother Fallah,

You keep going on "No body answered the question" but you seem to have ignored the first reply you got in this in the thread.

Go to page #1 and re-read it and try to understand your position amongst Allah's creation before you can even begin to comprehend the "light" of Alhlu-Beit let alone THE LIGHT OF Allah ALMIGHTY.

Salam

Ali

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