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fallah

Questions That Need Answers

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Those who deem permissible to call on other than Allah, please respond to theses questions. Let us see if the action is based on shirk/innovation or not.

1. Did Allah, when mentioning intercession, ever say that you can invoke them?

2. Do theses intercessors know what is in my heart?

3. Knowing that a Muslim is prohibited to make dua for a disbeliever, do they know who is calling on them?

4. If they know what is in my heart and who is calling on them, why would you ever call Allah, if indeed your dua will be answered more effectively?

5. What if I said "Ya Muhammad" intending poetry, can he know that I said poetry, or will he automatically make dua for me?

6. Do they know my thoughts, or do I have to speak outloud for them to hear my cry for help?

7. If they know my thoughts, why the sudden increase of power? Our Prophet didn't know that he was befriending hypocrites right? (Unless you want to insult our Prophet of intentionally hanging out with hypocrites)

8. If I'm alone in a room, who is watching me, hearing me, knows my desires? Just Allah or other than him are also all-hearing, all-all seeing, ever-present?

9. If they have been given such powers, where did Allah say that they have been granted such powers?

10. If we can call on the saints, how do you know if they were true in their faith and that they weren't hypocrites? What if you're calling someone who is getting punished in the grave, would you be committing shirk, since "you took the wrong intercessor"?

11. If I build an idol in the imaginary form of Ali and go in front of it, believing that the idol in itself has no power, and I call on Ali to help me, would it be shirk?

12. Why did Allah prohibit us from invoking jinns and angels, and how come this prohibition is different than invoking departed souls?

13. Can theses intercessors refuse your call?

14. If they can refuse, why not call Allah since He said "I will answer you"?

15. Can theses intercessors hear all the calls at the same time, and respond to them all at the same time? So in other words, are their faculties bound by time and space? Are they omnipotent, almost omnipotent, sometimes omnipotent?

16. If they are not bound, how then can they be in barzakh and wait for the day of Judgement?

17. From the conditions required to answer anyone's call on earth, weither secret call or loud call, and being able to differentiate between a genuine call and just a normal expression, could way say that you believe Allah created smaller gods, since you believe theses people have been given partial attributes/divinity of Allah?

18. Did they possess such powers when they were alive on earth? If not, what evidence that Allah has granted the dead such ability?

19. Concerning The verse saying "do not say they are dead, they are alive": if they are alive in the sense like they was on earth, why then didn't they have theses powers when they were on earth? Surely theses intercessors had souls on earth didn't they?

20. You say that the Prophet, imams, martyrs worship Allah in the grave, considering that alot of people call on them each day, do the Prophet, imams, and martyrs have any time left to worship Allah? Were they more capable of answering the calls of everyone back in the days, and now they've got too much on their hands? If not, are you also saying that they do not get tired, that they do not sleep, and they can do what they want at the same time, oddly, again, giving some of the divinity of Allah to them? "There is no diety except He, the Ever Living, the One Who sustains and protects all that exists. Neither slumber, nor sleep overtake Him."

21. Is there a delay between my call and the hearing of the intercessor? If there is a delay, then why would anyone call on other than Allah knowing Allah knows everything before it even happens?

22. Can I go in a church and invoke Jesus to help me? What about calling his mother to help me?

23. Can I bow down to a representation of Jesus, intending to bow down to Allah?

24. Can I build status and kiss it and talk to it, in the intention of kissing and talking to the person it represents?

25. Can I call on Uzza, while believing that Uzza is just a pious saint?

26. Can theses intercessors know what we write on the net, such as when you write "ali Madad"?

27. Why would anyone say "Ya Ali Madad" when the Prophet is greater in status?

28. Is the Mercy and Power of Allah greater than your demand and greater than the intercessor's concern for you? If so, why ask other than Allah?

29. Is Prayer an act of worship? If so, how can you justify praying to other than Allah?

30. If Allah answered Shaytan's direct request for delaying until the Day of Judgment, is the excuse of being "too sinful to ask Allah directly" any valid?

31. Concerning the verse telling us that the martyrs are alive, does Allah mean it literally?

It is accepted that people will be punished in their graves, and therefore we understand that they have to be alive in order to be punished.

Can we then say with rational deduction that this specific verse is metaphorical, and therefore cannot be used to support calling on the dead?

(salam)

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Brother excellent questions and we need to answer them one by one.

But first you need to know that those who are in Barzakh are dead (moata) while those referred to in Quran 2:106 are alive in another domain not on Earth and that domain is the same domain as Paradise which may mean the soul experience synchronization of frequency with the Pure frequency of God swt.

Worship is not a physical act but a synchronization act.

Imagine that experiencing Hell may mean each soul is cast away cannot communicate with outer souls. The punishment of loneliness is unbearable. And slowly slowly get purified by Allah The All Merciful to come to His domain (Paradise) and His Frequency of harmonics of (levels) it based on their nearness to Him, Glory to Him always.

This is exactly what being in the presence of Allah and seeing Him might be and He know best and controls all.

So for the Prophet and Imams (as) and Jesus and Mary and all the Prophets before them who are in sync with Allah's frequency to varying degrees, seeing and reply to all in no efforts or time consuming.

This is also what happens while we pray in Khishoo'. Our impure soul frequency reaches out to that of Allah's but due to frequency mismatch our souls stay here and feel every movement around us :( Unlike Imam Ali (as) when they suggested to remove a sharp object from his body during his prayer when he is least aware of it. This is TRUE COMMUNICATION with Allah. SALAAT = COMMUNICATION.

If you like what you have read so far, then please read my short booklet about Soul and Spirit found at www.heliwave.com/Soul.and.Spirit.pdf or www.primalogy.com/Soul.and.Spirit.pdf

and then repost you questions one by one in light of this new info and in sha Allah other and I will answer them to the best of our abilities.

Excellent questions once again :)

Ali Adams

God > infinity

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(bismillah)

Dear fallah,

In another thread you said that Quran is a guide. In fact you implemented that Quran alone is enough as our guide. Right?

But I claim that Allah is our Guide. And furthermore I believe that Allah alone is enough as a Guide. So technically anyone saying that Quran is a guide would be indulging in shirk, cus we know that Allah is the guides of all guides. So why even bother referring to Quran for gidance when Allah is there to Guide us at all times.

Can Quran know what kind of or how much guidance you need? If so does it mean Quran is all knowing????

Is reading Quran considered a form of worship,,,,and worship is reserved for Allah only

Can Quran refuse to guide someone?

Can someone kiss quran thinking that he may gain sawab

Can someone approach Quran for guidance when Allah is Higher in status.

How can Allah and Quran both be our guides at the same time??????

Please explain. I am waiting.

WS

Edited by Orion

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(bismillah)

Dear fallah,

In another thread you said that Quran is a guide. In fact you implemented that Quran alone is enough as our guide. Right?

But I claim that Allah is our Guide. And furthermore I believe that Allah alone is enough as a Guide. So technically anyone saying that Quran is a guide would be indulging in shirk, cus we know that Allah is the guides of all guides. So why even bother referring to Quran for gidance when Allah is there to Guide us at all times.

Can Quran know what kind of or how much guidance you need? If so does it mean Quran is all knowing????

Is reading Quran considered a form of worship,,,,and worship is reserved for Allah only

Can Quran refuse to guide someone?

Can someone kiss quran thinking that he may gain sawab

Can someone approach Quran for guidance when Allah is Higher in status.

How can Allah and Quran both be our guides at the same time??????

Please explain. I am waiting.

WS

False.

The idea is that one should judge the Hadith with the Quran, not vice versa.

The Quran is a book, an inanimate object. "Book of Guidance" is a metaphor insinuating that what it contains is the truth from Allah.

You're comparing reading the Quran with praying to other than Allah, which is absurd.

1. You live in a certain dimension. Allah has restricted the permissibility of your actions to this world.

2. The only metaphysical entity you are allowed to contact is Allah. This is why it is kufr to contact jinns, angels, and it follows that contacting human spirits outside of our realm falls under the same ruling.

3. Constructing statues is an action contrary to Islam.

Now respond to the questions please.

Edited by fallah

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The Quran is a book, an inanimate object.

FALSE! Quran is Alive and very well animate being not object.

Quran 2:106

ÇÚæÐ ÈÇááå ãä ÇáÔíØä ÇáÑÌíã

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

۞ ãóÇ äóäÓóÎú ãöäú ÁóÇíóÉò Ãóæú äõäÓöåóÇ äóÃúÊö ÈöÎóíúÑòۢ ãøöäúåóÇٓ Ãóæú ãöËúáöåóÇٓ ۗ Ãóáóãú ÊóÚúáóãú Ãóäøó ٱááøóåó Úóáóìٰ ßõáøö ÔóìúÁòۢ ÞóÏöíÑñ

Whatever communications We abrogate or cause to be forgotten, We bring one better than it or like it. Do you not know that Allah has power over all things?

This happens all the time without us being aware of it as stated at the end of my Soul and Spirit booklet.

Pay good attention to the assertion of Ãóáóãú ÊóÚúáóãú

Allah swt normally used "and" but here He/IT is using "Do you not know that " to emphasis this unbelievable fact by human low standard.

And so is the Black Stone in Al-Ka3ba. It too is alive but you cannot perceive it.

Ali Adams

God > infinity

The next verse supports your argument :)

Quran 2:107

ÇÚæÐ ÈÇááå ãä ÇáÔíØä ÇáÑÌíã

ÈÓã Çááå ÇáÑÍãä ÇáÑÍíã

Ãóáóãú ÊóÚúáóãú Ãóäøó ٱááøóåó áóåõۥ ãõáúßõ ٱáÓøóãóٰæóٰÊö æóٱáúÃóÑúÖö ۗ æóãóÇ áóßõã ãøöä Ïõæäö ٱááøóåö ãöä æóáöìøòۢ æóáóÇ äóÕöíÑò

Do you not know that Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth, and that besides Allah you have no guardian or helper?

Ali Adams

God > infinity

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I'd like to answer number 7 only because its a favourite of our brothers.

You need to get the order correct. The Prophet didn't hang about with hypocrites. The hypocrites hung about with the Prophet because they knew that they could get a share in the kingdom after he died.

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(bismillah)

The Quran is a book, an inanimate object. "Book of Guidance" is a metaphor insinuating that what it contains is the truth from Allah.

But why do you need Quran when you have Allah. Why not ask Allah for direct guidance, why bother to read Quran for guidance. Who do you think is the bigger and ultimate guide, Quran or Allah? Allah guides birds and other beings that dont read or need Quran. So why Quran, why not Allah and only Allah. Why dont you pray to Allah and ask His direct guidance. What is the role of Quran as a guide when you have direct approach to Allah.

Please explain.

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(bismillah)

But why do you need Quran when you have Allah. Why not ask Allah for direct guidance, why bother to read Quran for guidance. Who do you think is the bigger and ultimate guide, Quran or Allah? Allah guides birds and other beings that dont read or need Quran. So why Quran, why not Allah and only Allah. Why dont you pray to Allah and ask His direct guidance. What is the role of Quran as a guide when you have direct approach to Allah.

Please explain.

Did the Prophet and Allah tell you to read the Quran? Yes.

Did the Prophet and Allah ever tell you to pray on other than Allah? No.

Please explain why you pray to other than Allah, when you very well know Prayer is the most fundamental form of worship.

Respond to the questions, stop dodging.

I'd like to answer number 7 only because its a favourite of our brothers.

You need to get the order correct. The Prophet didn't hang about with hypocrites. The hypocrites hung about with the Prophet because they knew that they could get a share in the kingdom after he died.

So did the Prophet know they were hypocrites? Did he know what was in their hearts?

If not, then why would you believe that after his death he would know what's in everyone's heart?

If He did know they were hypocrites, why didn't he expose them?

Edited by fallah

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All the Du'as of Waseela, at the end, the asked is Allah (swt), while that rest is just honor formality, that God doesn't make them do what is not of their will.

All the Du'as teach to Ask Allah (swt) only, even Du'a tawasul, at the end, we ask Allah (swt) to be the one whom makes them a intercedders, as they won't do it without his command and order.

So they teach a balance, it's just a matter of formality. Even if in the past, people asked not in this matter, the Du'as of Ahlebayt (as) taught only in this matter.

So you can follow Ahlebayt (as) and Quran, or you can follow people of rhetoric and conjecture, calling you to a world of seher and misguidance.

In fact there is many verses as well as hadiths, to show to ask Allah (swt) only and only seek risq from him, and we even see that Allah (swt) orders Imams (as) to glorify with Sulaiman (as) , it's not them deciding!

Edited by DarkKnight

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All the Du'as of Waseela, at the end, the asked is Allah (swt), while that rest is just honor formality, that God doesn't make them do what is not of their will.

All the Du'as teach to Ask Allah (swt) only, even Du'a tawasul, at the end, we ask Allah (swt) to be the one whom makes them a intercedders, as they won't do it without his command and order.

So they teach a balance, it's just a matter of formality. Even if in the past, people asked not in this matter, the Du'as of Ahlebayt (as) taught only in this matter.

So you can follow Ahlebayt (as) and Quran, or you can follow people of rhetoric and conjecture, calling you to a world of seher and misguidance.

The wording in the Dua and the intention behind it is important.

1st and formost, "Ya Ali Madad" isn't a dua directed to Allah. It's clear, we don't need to speculate about such clear invocations. The one who says it is praying to Ali.

Secondly, there's a huge difference between

Ya Allah, help me because I love Ali

and

Ya Ali, help me

Huge difference.

Edited by fallah

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So did the Prophet know they were hypocrites? Did he know what was in their hearts?

If not, then why would you believe that after his death he would know what's in everyone's heart?

If He did know they were hypocrites, why didn't he expose them?

So why didn't Allah expose them, when he knows everything?

There is knowledge and there is wisdom and they are two different things. Just because he knew they were hypocrites does not mean it was wise to expose them.

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The wording in the Dua and the intention behind it is important.

1st and formost, "Ya Ali Madad" isn't a dua directed to Allah. It's clear, we don't need to speculate about such clear invocations. The one who says it is praying to Ali.

Secondly, there's a huge difference between

Ya Allah, help me because I love Ali

and

Ya Ali, help me

Huge difference.

I agree. Which is why I think Ya Ali Madad is wrong.

wa salam

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004.064

YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

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Did the Prophet and Allah tell you to read the Quran? Yes.

Did the Prophet and Allah ever tell you to pray on other than Allah? No.

Please explain why you pray to other than Allah, when you very well know Prayer is the most fundamental form of worship.

Respond to the questions, stop dodging.

(bismillah)

Lets talk about QURAN and GUIDANCE first.

Give me some straight answers about Quran:

1-Why use Quran for guidance when you have Allah?

2-How could you pick Quran that you call "an inanimate object" over Allah for guidance when you know that Allah is the true guide?

3-Is Allah dependent on a "Book" for guidance when He can guide His creations without it?

4-By consulting Quran as a guide, are you not making Quran a partner with Allah.......Is that not Shirk?

5-What is the relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran?

Answer these first and than we will talk about your questions.

WS

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The wording in the Dua and the intention behind it is important.

1st and formost, "Ya Ali Madad" isn't a dua directed to Allah. It's clear, we don't need to speculate about such clear invocations. The one who says it is praying to Ali.

Secondly, there's a huge difference between

Ya Allah, help me because I love Ali

and

Ya Ali, help me

Huge difference.

I say Ya Ali Madad because Ali can help me. End of.

Why should I call upon a professor when a primary school teacher can answer my query? Same difference.

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I will give you example, at the end of Du'a tawasul, we ask Allah (swt) to make them interceders. So we are asking Allah (swt) to bless us with their intercession.

If I say "O Allah, I turn to you by Mohammad and Ali, and I ask you..." it's same waseela, as "O Allah, I turn to you through your Prophet, O Prophet intercede, o Allah make him a interceder", the latter phrase, means Mohammad (God bless him and his family) is being asked but only in the sense of formality, while it's Allah (swt) whom will or iwll not make, now we know in Quran, it says "permits", right, that's the think, God wil not say "O Mohammad you have to pray for that person", he will give him permission or not, if he allows it or doesn;t.

So we have to ask Allah (swt) for intercession.

Also in reality, there is only one interceder, and it's Allah (swt), because he himself orders Mohammad (pbuh) to pray for others, then doesn't allow him to do so but if he permits..

It's just about realizing when Mohamamd (God bless him and his family), it's a lot more, that we get, because he knows Allah (swt) and has good thought of him, but this doesn't meant we shouldn't do our own prayer and have our own relationship, specilaly since God says they don't intercede except for whom Allah (swt) is pleased with.

So Allah (swt) has to be pleased with it, so it makes no sense, not to ask Allah (swt), when seeking intercession.

At the end there is no interceder but Allah (swt), he permitting is just formality, and the addressmetn to Mohamamd (saw) is just formality, in reality, Allah (swt) wants us to acknowledge him.

This is why Imam Jaffar (as) says you should know when you do Tashahud, that he has ordered Mohammad (pbuh) to pray for you when you obey God....

It's just a matter of knowing his Maqam, it's not really about asking Mohammmad (pbuh) becuase he can't do it without permission of God and God being pleased.

wa salam

It's the same with their spiritual help and guidance, you see the waseela's are all the end asking only Allah (swt) really, the former is just formality. It;s like when Rasool (saw) says "wali ma Wa'alaa", this is going to happen whether he prays for it or doesn't, because Quran already states this is what will happen, but he says it as formality showing it's his wish as well.

wa salam

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Can I add a question here too;

Nahjul Balaga, saying 116

Imam Ali says:

''Two kinds of people will be damned on my account; those who form exaggerated opinions about me and those who under-estimate me because they hate me.''

What do these ''exaggerated opinions'' refer to? Are they the attributes which we assert to the Imam (as), that he never claimed to be?

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Bro Fallah, when people insist on Shirk, you simply do as Mohammad (God bless him and his family)

He frowned and turned away when the blind came to him.

You will burn out if you don't do this.

Discuss, but not when a person doesn't want to know the truth at all, but just re-assert.

wa salam

It is Imam Mahdi (as) whom teaches us to say when faced with attacks from the sorcerers

I only call upon Allah.

After all, when you I attack them with... You are calling upon Allah (swt) to do this, as nothing can occur but by his will.

The Du'a however is a firm resolved belief that Allah (swt) will instantly respond with all that is stated.

wa salam

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Bro Fallah, when people insist on Shirk, you simply do as Mohammad (God bless him and his family)

He frowned and turned away when the blind came to him.

Rather it was Uthman who frowned and turned away.

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Can I add a question here too;

Nahjul Balaga, saying 116

Imam Ali says:

''Two kinds of people will be damned on my account; those who form exaggerated opinions about me and those who under-estimate me because they hate me.''

What do these ''exaggerated opinions'' refer to? Are they the attributes which we assert to the Imam (as), that he never claimed to be?

Some people came with notion here that Ali created the universe or Imams did, at the same time, they disconnect Imam's light from Allah, and say it's unrelated and not from Allah (swt).

Just as Quran cannot be other then Allah's (swt) word, the universe is something that cannot be created by but Allah (swt), neither in total control of all atoms keeping everythijng moving, etc, but Allah (swt).

It's funny how a person qouted a Marjaa to say Wahdatal Wujood is kufr, but at the same time, that perosn taught the whole universe exists through Ahlebayt (as) and they are the cause of it, adn all is the cause of them and they control everything!.

It's absolutely redicolous, people hwom believe, Ahlbeyat (as) are controlling the hwole universe, every atom, yes they have authority, that anythinhg will obey them and can maniplualte things, whole different hing to have the whole thing in their grips doing as they please....

And God specifically didn't give function of Risq and other things to humans, and left it to Angels, so we don't ask our Guides to do such things, liek grant us a son!

IF you read Quran, you see there is two extremes exmphasized in Suratal Maeeda and Suratal Nia. There is those whom neglect elect ones and those whom exagerate them.

You can only say what you know of truth.

God doesn't want us to see that he leaves the management of the universe to others, he wants us to see everything is in his hands, and all Angels are doing things as he orders, and Imams don't guide or intercerde except by his permisison and command, both, permission to Guide, and also from before hand, to want that permission is by his command.....

IT's clear abotu this issue.

But if they can make Khums verse mean two things, pretend verses after another aren't there to make a caste system, and other htings...it's not far off they don't see the Tawheed ttaught in Quran.

Now with the pillar of defense of Islam, Fadlallah, Gone, whom will rise against this?

Edited by DarkKnight

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What do these ''exaggerated opinions'' refer to? Are they the attributes which we assert to the Imam (as), that he never claimed to be?

Those claimed Ali (as) to have powers which were not given to him by Allah.

It's funny how a person qouted a Marjaa to say Wahdatal Wujood is kufr, but at the same time, that perosn taught the whole universe exists through Ahlebayt (as) and they are the cause of it, adn all is the cause of them and they control everything!.

Of course Ahlulbayt (as) are the cause of everything. Read hadith al-kisaa.

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Rather it was Uthman who frowned and turned away.

it's teaching us how to talk to people whom don't want to purify themselves, don't care for guidance, come just to argue for their Taghoutic dirty bond.

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it's teaching us how to talk to people whom don't want to purify themselves, don't care for guidance, come just to argue for their Taghoutic dirty bond.

You might believe in a prophet who was rude and frowned, but I believe in Rahmatul lil-Alameen who wasn't even rude to the murderer of his own uncle.

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Allah (swt) is the cause of everyhting, and he created out of his generosity and love for creation.

You believe what you want, the real hadithal kisaa is mutuwatir, the one revealed in Umm Salama house verision, it's found in al-kafi and other sources as well.

You can stick to your super long chain that goes against Tawheed and honor of the other 9 Imams and other Propehts (as) and dishonors God if you like.

To you belongs your religion and to me is mine.

You might believe in a prophet who was rude and frowned, but I believe in Rahmatul lil-Alameen who wasn't even rude to the murderer of his own uncle.

There comes a limit of what you can do for the blind.

You can see it as rude but a great porition of Quran, is telling up to do so, to turn away from them, and frowning, it's fine, Nuh (as) says "we too mock you just as you mock us".

fallah, you see in Quran despite clear arguments, Mushrikeen of society build identity, revere certain leaders, they will not give up no matter how clear arguments.

The reply to arguments was simply to manifest the truth, it was not they were going to accept after rejecting clear profo the first time.

So just be patient and work on making people whom search the truth firm on Tawheed instead.

wa salam

Edited by DarkKnight

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Bro Fallah, when people insist on Shirk, you simply do as Mohammad (God bless him and his family)

He frowned and turned away when the blind came to him.

You will burn out if you don't do this.

Discuss, but not when a person doesn't want to know the truth at all, but just re-assert.

wa salam

Are you implementing that the Prophet (pbuh) who is an example of the best manners frowned at someone???????

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I say Ya Ali Madad because Ali can help me. End of.

Why should I call upon a professor when a primary school teacher can answer my query? Same difference.

NO! OBVIOUSLY IT IS NOT THE SAME!

HAVE YOU EVER CALLED YOUR PROFESSOR FROM FAR AWAY? OR WERE YOU ALWAYS OBLIGED TO GO TO HIS OFFICE? DID YOU EVER INVOKE YOUR PROFESSOR BEFORE AND AFTER HIS DEATH? OBVIOUSLY NO!

How then can you claim that it is the same thing?

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Are you implementing that the Prophet (pbuh) who is an example of the best manners frowned at someone???????

Yes, as part of his perfect example. Or do you decide what is perfect example now.

Blind means not those whom are ignorant, it means those whom have coverred truth they know and are insisting on their rebellion.

You can tell by the verse, it asks would he do so if a person was sincerely thinking? (ofcourse not) or should he address himself to one whom doesn't care, sees himself knowing what he knows immersed in his conjecture? What's the point...

It's rather but a reminder for whom wants to remember. Not for him to be distressed, and as I said, Nuh (as) says "we mock you just as you mock us".

He wants to address me "what value your views have" so I smile like Sulaiman (as) did with the words of the ant, and I don't need to respond.

IT's very simple....

This is how to live a life without burning out. Something I should have done long ago.

NO! OBVIOUSLY IT IS NOT THE SAME!

HAVE YOU EVER CALLED YOUR PROFESSOR FROM FAR AWAY? OR WERE YOU ALWAYS OBLIGED TO GO TO HIS OFFICE? DID YOU EVER INVOKE YOUR PROFESSOR BEFORE AND AFTER HIS DEATH? OBVIOUSLY NO!

How then can you claim that it is the same thing?

Bro try the frowning and ignore option. It's not bad sometimes.

wa salam

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004.064

YUSUFALI: We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah's forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

Did it say "Had they only, supplicated to Allah's Messenger?

This verse is against you.

Read it again and see if it speaks about an ordinary physical action of going to the Prophet, or if it speaks of praying to Rasul. If it was praying to Rasul, then they didn't need to come to him. Our Prophet is human, not a God.

Edited by fallah

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Did it say "Had they only, supplicated to Allah's Messenger?

This verse is against you.

Read it again and see if it speaks about an ordinary physical action of going to the Prophet, or if it speaks of praying to Rasul. If it was praying to Rasul, then they didn't need to come to him.

You are right bro, but Quran is clear right, so if they can't see in Quran already, what will make you make them see it?

Imam Ali (as) says "how can my voice make hear what loud cries cannot"

If Quran continously says to seek risq from Allah (swt) and not other then him, to address Allah (swt) as he is close for you neneds, to seek favors from him, and hadiths repeat with confirmation, and this is clear...

And says not to call on anyone aside from him as in him the Ultimate High, not servatns that ascend tohim, which were being refuted to avail anything for anyone, be able to help anyone, except if God is please diwth that person, allows the interceders to intercede and given him command, which means, we should at the end, always ask Allah (swt) to bless us with intercession, you can address Ahlebayt (as) as formality, but not that they decide to intercede or not, you have to ask Allah (Swt) to do that, and God has given them when allows them to, intercession that is accepted and he answers what they request in detail.

wa salam

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Yes, as part of his perfect example. Or do you decide what is perfect example now.

Blind means not those whom are ignorant, it means those whom have coverred truth they know and are insisting on their rebellion.

You can tell by the verse, it asks would he do so if a person was sincerely thinking? (ofcourse not) or should he address himself to one whom doesn't care, sees himself knowing what he knows immersed in his conjecture? What's the point...

It's rather but a reminder for whom wants to remember. Not for him to be distressed, and as I said, Nuh (as) says "we mock you just as you mock us".

He wants to address me "what value your views have" so I smile like Sulaiman (as) did with the words of the ant, and I don't need to respond.

IT's very simple....

This is how to live a life without burning out. Something I should have done long ago.

Bro try the frowning and ignore option. It's not bad sometimes.

wa salam

You are mistaken. Please read the following:

Who Offended the Blind?

WS

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Allah (swt) is the cause of everyhting, and he created out of his generosity and love for creation.

You believe what you want, the real hadithal kisaa is mutuwatir, the one revealed in Umm Salama house verision, it's found in al-kafi and other sources as well.

You can stick to your super long chain that goes against Tawheed and honor of the other 9 Imams and other Propehts (as) and dishonors God if you like.

To you belongs your religion and to me is mine.

There comes a limit of what you can do for the blind.

You can see it as rude but a great porition of Quran, is telling up to do so, to turn away from them, and frowning, it's fine, Nuh (as) says "we too mock you just as you mock us".

fallah, you see in Quran despite clear arguments, Mushrikeen of society build identity, revere certain leaders, they will not give up no matter how clear arguments.

The reply to arguments was simply to manifest the truth, it was not they were going to accept after rejecting clear profo the first time.

So just be patient and work on making people whom search the truth firm on Tawheed instead.

wa salam

What do you think about asking the origins of each member here in the forum and see if this practice of calling on other than Allah is a cultural practice or not?

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You are mistaken.

I read it, and I am going back to child instincts, what I thought of it the first time I read it which in what it says, is said else where in Quran anwyays.

That message is in other parts of Quran. Quran never says one thing in one place but has no confirmation in another.

This is the test of it. So your denying what other places of Quran says, like him turning away from blind people is commanded else where, and whom to hold himself with is shown, and reason why is shown, and the frown is shown both with Nuh (as) and Sulaiman (as).

Anyways, the Surah is irony, it's meant that the blind assume the wrong meaning.

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(bismillah)

Lets talk about QURAN and GUIDANCE first.

Give me some straight answers about Quran:

1-Why use Quran for guidance when you have Allah?

2-How could you pick Quran that you call "an inanimate object" over Allah for guidance when you know that Allah is the true guide?

3-Is Allah dependent on a "Book" for guidance when He can guide His creations without it?

4-By consulting Quran as a guide, are you not making Quran a partner with Allah.......Is that not Shirk?

5-What is the relationship b/w Allah, His Guidance, you and the Quran?

Answer these first and than we will talk about your questions.

WS

Br. fallah, I am still waiting......

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NO! OBVIOUSLY IT IS NOT THE SAME!

HAVE YOU EVER CALLED YOUR PROFESSOR FROM FAR AWAY? OR WERE YOU ALWAYS OBLIGED TO GO TO HIS OFFICE? DID YOU EVER INVOKE YOUR PROFESSOR BEFORE AND AFTER HIS DEATH? OBVIOUSLY NO!

How then can you claim that it is the same thing?

ALI IS NOT DEAD. HIS OFFICE IS EVERYWHERE. Allah GAVE HIM ALL THE CAPABILITIES.

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