Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله
Sign in to follow this  
Truth_Seeker_786

"asalaamun Alaikum" Or "ya Ali Maddat" ?

Rate this topic

Recommended Posts

Asalaam alaikum.

Please bear in mind that my intention is neither to insult nor to find fault with anyone’s way of life but to question in order to find a plausible explanation for something that is troubling me.

I am not against Waseelah of the Imams of Ahlul-bayt (as) for that is a different matter but what I find quite disturbing is that many Shiah are on the verge of the shifting the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (pbuh&hf) which was to say: “Asalaamun Alaikum” to the believers…into something which I personally would term as a bidda and not even as “Bidda Husana” but an innovation based upon blind love for the Holy Imams (as).

I have not come across nor do I believe that there ever exists a narration that allows any Musklim to say: Ya Ali Maddat in substitution of Asalaamu Alaikum.

Those who claim to be Shiah and say Ya Ali Maddat, please answer the following Questions:

(A) It is clear from the Holy Quran that the way of the PROPHETS and the BELIEVERS has been to say Asalaamun Alaikum…rather than any OTHER substitute...So under such a direct approved method, why do the Shiah then not CLING unto to the Holy Quran as stated by the Messenger of Allah in the hadith of Thaqalain?

When those who believe in Our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) come to you, say: "Salamun 'Alaikum" (peace be on you)… (6:54)

But when you enter the houses, greet one another with a greeting from Allah As-Salamu 'Alaikum - peace be on you) blessed and good. (24:61)

Ibrahim (Abraham) said: "Asalamun Alaika! I will ask Forgiveness of my Lord for you. Verily He is unto me Ever Most Gracious.

(B) How can we justify the reconciliation of Ya Ali Maddat with the saying of Asalaamun Aliakum, when the two expressions don’t even have a slight resemblance in their meaning?

© If the Imams have not approved such a thing (replacement of salaam without something else) then are we not in clash with the teaching of the Thaqalain and are we not opposing the Sunnah of the Holy Imams?

(D) Are there any Mujtahids who allow : Ya Ali Maddat in replacement of Asalaam Alaikum?

(E) Those claim that : “We utter both the expressions without negating one or the other…” Then may I ask whose sunnah is that? Who was the first person to start that? Was he learned in Islam? Or was he just a Malang who had no necessary qualifications but just started a tradition amongst the laymen and as a result many started to follow him without questioning such a thing out of concern of the love for the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt (as) ?

I believe that the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt (as) would be more happy with those of their followers who would act in reviving Sunnah of the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hf) in contrast to who those who have stained it with an act of Biddah.

wasalaam.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

brother we say it because we want to say it. we arent forcing anyone to say it. if saying alis name is a sin, then its our sin.

(salam)

Shouldn't we be doing what we were taught to do, rather than what we think or feel is right? No offence, but it seems a bit of a stubborn view, as you (in the general sense) need to say it to reaffirm their 'shiasism'

p.s. How's the HTC Desire?

Edited by Vigilare

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah)

Asalaam Alaykom,

When those who believe in Our Ayat (proofs, evidence, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) come to you, say: "Salamun 'Alaikum" (peace be on you)… (6:54)

This right here is the whole point, the argument is that sunnis do not have eman on the ayat of Allah, in our ahadith it is written that Imam Ali (as) is the greatest Ayat of Allah.... so, the question is, do sunnis have eman on the ayat of Allah, which does in fact include the 12 Aimmah (as)?

Basically, you have to realize at the same time this is commanding you to say Asalaam Alaykom to believers, it does actually specify that it would be believers and not otherwise.... when there is one Prophet (saww) and 12 Guides (Aimmah (as)) then is sending the salams to those who only have partial eman something we are allowed to do?

Imam Jafar al-Sadiq (as) told us not to send the full salaam on a non-believer, so the question then becomes what does qualify one to be a believer?

Fi Aman Allah

Edited by GhulameSayyeda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's really up 2 the person what they want to say

like I say hi more than salam.. so what?

let ppl be freeeeeeeeeeeeee and say watever they want as long as it's not haram! :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it's really up 2 the person what they want to say

like I say hi more than salam.. so what?

let ppl be freeeeeeeeeeeeee and say watever they want as long as it's not haram! :D

:squeez:

1. The Islamic greetings is (salam)

2. To change it is to change one of the Islamic etiquettes

3. You're supposed to say Ya Allah Madad not Ya Ali madad, which is an innovation.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have not come across nor do I believe that there ever exists a narration that allows any Musklim to say: Ya Ali Maddat in substitution of Asalaamu Alaikum.

The vast majority of Shi'a Muslims in the world greet each other with salam. The ones who greet each other with "Ya Ali Madad" instead are only the malangs, a deeply ignorant and loathsome group that derives primarily from the Pakistani Punjabi communities. Don't bother with them; the teachings of Islam and the Ahlulbayt are as important to them as they are to the Hindu Shiv Sena activists.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The vast majority of Shi'a Muslims in the world greet each other with salam. The ones who greet each other with "Ya Ali Madad" instead are only the malangs, a deeply ignorant and loathsome group that derives primarily from the Pakistani Punjabi communities. Don't bother with them; the teachings of Islam and the Ahlulbayt are as important to them as they are to the Hindu Shiv Sena activists.

should we not clarify my point in the above post for the best interest of all concerned?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
should we not clarify my point in the above post for the best interest of all concerned?

Your previous post seems to be unrelated to the issue brought up by the original poster. The issue here is whether it is an Islamic or unIslamic practice to greet each other with 'Ya Ali Madad' instead of salam. The question of whom the salam is intended for is secondary, and deserves another thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

unless I misunderstood saying "salamu alaikum" is "sunnah" not "wajib" am i correct here in my thinking? so if it is NOT wajib then how can someone not saying it be wrong? so if someone chooses to say something else they are not doing anything wrong nor have done some innovation

saying "salamu alaikum" is recommended only replying is wajib so if something isnt wajib and is only recommended then can someone please explain to me how not saying it is wrong? maybe it's just i am not as learned as others on this form but i simply cant understand how if someone decides to not do something that is recommended then suddenly they have commited a sin there are many things that are recommended but majority dont do them so why does everyone get so offended on this point?

reading extra prayers is also recommended how many of you watch tv instead of reading extra prayers how many of you go visit your friends or go shopping instead of reading Quran or reciting dhikr does it mean your doing some type of biddah bec youre doing something else instead of doing something that is recommended?

so if two chinese muslims decided to greet each "hello" in chinese instead of saying salam is that wrong?

if two arab muslims say "marhaba" instead of salam is that also wrong?

if two spainish muslims greet each other with "ola" instead of salam is that wrong?

would you consider them commiting an innovation? if not then why when two people who have the love of Imam Ali (as) in their hearts decide to greet each other with something else does it become wrong? why is it an innovation suddenly? can someone please explain this to me?

"Allah" is the term or name that is used to define our Supreme Creator however this same "Allah" is also known by several other names one of those names just happens to "Ali" (Most High) just a little food for thought for those who are open minded and do not hold hidden animosity in their hearts towards Imam Ali (as)

Edited by Kashif_Batool

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your previous post seems to be unrelated to the issue brought up by the original poster. The issue here is whether it is an Islamic or unIslamic practice to greet each other with 'Ya Ali Madad' instead of salam. The question of whom the salam is intended for is secondary, and deserves another thread.

The Question of whom the salaam is intended for is the point and what is being taught as to why say Ya Ali Madad first rather than salam is to make sure that the person to whom you are speaking has eman on the Ayat of Allah... this is the origional reason for it being said before the greetings of salam

I dont see how this is unrelated

Fi Aman Allah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:squeez:

1. The Islamic greetings is (salam)

2. To change it is to change one of the Islamic etiquettes

3. You're supposed to say Ya Allah Madad not Ya Ali madad, which is an innovation.

(salam)

(bismillah) (salam)

You are supposed to hate the enemies of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and his family (as) .

Peace

Edited by ShiaSoldier@2007

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Question of whom the salaam is intended for is the point and what is being taught as to why say Ya Ali Madad first rather than salam is to make sure that the person to whom you are speaking has eman on the Ayat of Allah... this is the origional reason for it being said before the greetings of salam

I dont see how this is unrelated

Fi Aman Allah

Dont you think you are making life too complicted for yourself? Lets just stick to the advice of Allah (swt), which asks us to greet the believers with ''Salaam''. Does the Quran tell us that we should test people by saying Ya Ali Madad first? I dont know where you get these ideas from.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dont you think you are making life too complicted for yourself? Lets just stick to the advice of Allah (swt), which asks us to greet the believers with ''Salaam''. Does the Quran tell us that we should test people by saying Ya Ali Madad first? I dont know where you get these ideas from.

Asalaam Alaykom,

these are akhbari ideas and teachings I was trying to shed some light on and have discussion upon (perhaps dispell some ignorances and/or misconceptions) since it was relevant to this thread... as no one care to discuss the definition of a 'believer' then it is no problem....

obviously there is no discussion desired here

Fi Aman Allah

Edited by GhulameSayyeda

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(bismillah) (salam)

You are supposed to hate the enemies of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and his family (as) .

Peace

And how does hating the enemies of the Prophet related to saying (salam) to another Muslim?

Obviously there is no relation.

Stay on thread.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The Question of whom the salaam is intended for is the point and what is being taught as to why say Ya Ali Madad first rather than salam is to make sure that the person to whom you are speaking has eman on the Ayat of Allah... this is the origional reason for it being said before the greetings of salam

The malangs greet each other with Ya Ali Madad. They already know that the people they are greeting are believers. This is not some sort of test, it's their substitute greeting.

Also keep in mind that saying Ya Ali Madad is in no way a test of a person's e'man. Only someone as ignorant as a malang would come up with such an absurd "test".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And how does hating the enemies of the Prophet related to saying (salam) to another Muslim?

Obviously there is no relation.

Stay on thread.

(salam)

(bismillah) (salam)

If you don't follow what my religion says; then why should I follow what you think your religion says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, I am sure for you all it is much easier to point a finger and say ignorant rather than to discuss said ignorances and find the truth so that all people can have a reference and a better understanding, not only of the correct thing, but also a greater understanding of the place both groups are coming from....

lets not discuss, it requres more than saying omg its wrong never say it the ones who do are ignorant... it requres thought and knowledge to discuss these topics,,, therefore ignore my words

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The malangs greet each other with Ya Ali Madad. They already know that the people they are greeting are believers. This is not some sort of test, it's their substitute greeting.

Also keep in mind that saying Ya Ali Madad is in no way a test of a person's e'man. Only someone as ignorant as a malang would come up with such an absurd "test".

It's unfortunate because many have marifa but then mix things with conjecture and falsehood. Allah (swt) warns a Prophet, to not ask Allah of what he has no knowledge of, yet people make religion based on unsure facts.

wa salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

unless I misunderstood saying "salamu alaikum" is "sunnah" not "wajib" am i correct here in my thinking? so if it is NOT wajib then how can someone not saying it be wrong? so if someone chooses to say something else they are not doing anything wrong nor have done some innovation

Salam Alaikom wa rahmatallah wa barakatu

So when you enter houses, greet your people with a salutation from Allah, blessed (and) goodly; thus does Allah make clear to you the communications that you may understand.

if two arab muslims say "marhaba" instead of salam is that also wrong?

yes

GhulamSyeda, your better then this.

wa salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Allah" is the term or name that is used to define our Supreme Creator however this same "Allah" is also known by several other names one of those names just happens to "Ali" (Most High) just a little food for thought for those who are open minded and do not hold hidden animosity in their hearts towards Imam Ali (as)

I'm not sure I understand your point here brother. Could you elaborate?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam Alaikom wa rahmatallah wa barakatu

So when you enter houses, greet your people with a salutation from Allah, blessed (and) goodly; thus does Allah make clear to you the communications that you may understand.

yes

GhulamSyeda, your better then this.

wa salam

(salam)

I realize I am not as educated in these matters as all of you but can you please explain how your first point answers my question you have not provided me with any reference or anything from Quran that states using the phrase "assalamu alaikum" specifically is wajib upon two muslims and this is my question

I have always been taught that it is recommended to say salam but wajib to reply if this is incorrect can you please show me the proofs for it?

If it is not wajib then how can not saying it be wrong? How can saying hello or Ya Ali (as) Madad in place of salam be considered unislamic?

By this logic one who watches tv instead of praying extra prayers is also performing bidah and doing an unislamic act?

Can you please explain to me how saying "marhaba" is wrong? Can you please provide proofs? Not just your opinion

I am not sure what you meant by the last part refereing to GhulamSyeda I looked for some reply but couldnt find it so I really dont know what that means

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Can you please explain to me how saying "marhaba" is wrong? Can you please provide proofs? Not just your opinion

(salam)

The Quran says to greet each other with salam

Why do we have to go so far as to say "No! I want to greet with marhaba! Prove that this isn't allowed!"

Do you know more than Allah?? No, so why do you need to do something different of what He told you to do?

Why is everyone making this so complicated...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why is everyone making this so complicated...

Salam exactly the problem.

Everything is in Quran if we think like children instead of thinking we have this man made constructed wisdom, which appears "smart' but is deceptive.

wa salam

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"Allah" is the term or name that is used to define our Supreme Creator however this same "Allah" is also known by several other names one of those names just happens to "Ali" (Most High) just a little food for thought for those who are open minded and do not hold hidden animosity in their hearts towards Imam Ali (as)

Ok now seriously, please shut up.

A lover of Imam Ali doesn't leave the greetings the Prophet imposed on us. (salam) is the sunnah of the Prophet. "Ya Ali Madad" is a shirkiye expression invented not so long ago in a particular region of the world.

Are you equating the name Ali with the name Allah?

If you want to resort to tell people that they hate Imam Ali because they don't believe Ali is a God, you need to wake up.

A Muslim greets another Muslims with (salam) . Islam 101.

Don't use the love of ahlul bayt as an emotional argument, it doesn't work on people who are rational in their approach, especially when it only exposes how you disregard their traditions.

I don't even understand why people leave aside the most basic/simple Islamic practice of all that even the kuffars know about it and know how to say it.

Edited by fallah

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

The Question of whom the salaam is intended for is the point and what is being taught as to why say Ya Ali Madad first rather than salam is to make sure that the person to whom you are speaking has eman on the Ayat of Allah... this is the origional reason for it being said before the greetings of salam

I dont see how this is unrelated

Fi Aman Allah

There is nothing wrong with saying Ya Ali Madad or Ya Allah Madad or Marhaba but the first thing that you say to one another is the (salam). This is the beginning of every conversation. Afterward you can say whatever you wish.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Salam

Zareen, what has Quran say about innovations? Have you checked or didn't bother looking. I think it is very clear about this issue. So I will let you answer before quoting some verses.

Also have you checked what hadiths say about them?

wa salam

Edited by Gangster

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

I am glad people raised this up.

Always start with Salam, no matter what. If you want, you can say Ya Ali Madad after it, but start with Salam, the Qur'an demands so.

Also, say "Ya Ali Madad" with the intention of asking help from Allah through Imam Ali's intercession, but I am sure everyone does that anyone and no one thinks that it is Imam Ali (nauzobillah) that owns that power- he, is like the rest of the awliya, only a means to communicate to Allah swt.

Edited by Ya Baqiyatullah (aj)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

(salam)

I am glad people raised this up.

Always start with Salam, no matter what. If you want, you can say Ya Ali Madad after it, but start with Salam, the Qur'an demands so.

Also, say "Ya Ali Madad" with the intention of asking help from Allah through Imam Ali's intercession, but I am sure everyone does that anyone and no one thinks that it is Imam Ali (nauzobillah) that owns that power- he, is like the rest of the awliya, only a means to communicate to Allah swt.

If someone says "Allah is Evil" with the intention of saying "Allah created Shaytan", can you seriously consider the intention when someone utters such a thing?

Obviously, no. Likewise, saying "Ya Ali Madad" cannot mean that one is calling on Allah by putting emphasis through the name of Ali. Rather, one is to consider such an expression as a divine call to Ali, even though the one who says it denies such an intention.

(salam)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...