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In the Name of God بسم الله

Fatwas Against Stoning?

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No, no Shi`a or Sunni scholar can reject this as it's abundantly clear as an authentic punishment from our sources. The only sect I know who rejected it was one of the Khawarij sects, the Azraqites. Mind you, this was the same group who considered any non-Azraqite to be a apostate who would go to Hell and whose blood was lawful to shed. As part of the initiation to their group you had to kill a prisoner, preferably someone of your own tribe. They were widely feared for the massacres they carried out (again, considering all non-Azraqites to be apostates), and held to such stringent laws as the hand of the thief being cut no matter how little he had stolen. And of course, as Khawarij they believed Imam `Ali (as) was a kafir as well (a`udhu billah).

Anyhow, as to us, we do have a relevant hadith in this regard that I do think should be observed:

21 - æÈåÐÇ ÇáÇÓäÇÏ¡ Úä ÃÈÇä Èä ÊÛáÈ ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã: ÏãÇä Ýí ÇáÇÓáÇã ÍáÇá ãä Çááå ÚÒæÌá áÇ íÞÖí ÝíåãÇ ÃÍÏ ÈÍßã Çááå ÍÊì íÈÚË Çááå ÚÒ æÌá ÇáÞÇÆã ãä Ãåá ÇáÈíÊ Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã¡ ÝíÍßã ÝíåãÇ ÈÍßã Çááå ÚÒæÌá áÇ íÑíÏ Úáì Ðáß ÈíäÉ: ÇáÒÇäí ÇáãÍÕä íÑÌãå¡ æãÇäÚ ÇáÒßÇÉ íÖÑÈ ÑÞÈÊå.

From Saduq's Kamal ad-Deen:

And by this isnad from Aban b. Taghlab. He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: The two bloods which in Islam are lawful (i.e. to shed) from Allah `azza wa jalla that no one shall give judgement in by the ruling of Allah until Allah `azza wa jalla sends the Qa'im from the Ahl al-Bayt Úáíåã ÇáÓáÇã, so he shall rule in regards to them by the ruling Allah `azza wa jalla without wanting evidence upon that: the muhsan fornicator he will stone and the preventer (i.e. withholder) of zakat he will strike his neck.

(muhsan meaning someone who has a spouse who is sexually available to them, non-muhsan fornicators are not stoned as such)

So going by that, it would appear that the stoning punishment for adultery cannot be carried out in these times, only when Imam Mahdi (as) re-appears.

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There is a sahih hadith that says:

683¡ 13 - 3 æÈÅÓäÇÏÉ¡ Úä íæäÓ¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå ÓäÇä ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ÇáÑÌã Ýí ÇáÞÑÂä Þæá Çááå ÚÒæÌá: ÅÐÇ Òäì ÇáÔíÎ æÇáÔíÎÉ ÝÇÑÌãæåãÇ ÇáÈÊÉ ÝÅäåãÇ ÞÖíÇ ÇáÔåæÉ (1).

And by his isnad from Yunus from `Abdullah b. Sinan. He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: Stoning in the Quran is the saying of Allah ÚÒæÌá "When the shaykh and the shaykha have fornicated so stone them definitively for they have carried out desire"

As to it being just, it is just considering the immensity of the crime (remember, this is something that people can go to the Fire for, which is far more severe than a single painful death in this world). As to being humane, it's meant to be a horrible and painful way to die, it isn't meant as something quick and painless. The one who undergoes this punishment though, as hard as it is, has thus atoned for their sin and will not be punished for it in the Hereafter. That said, a person need not undergo this severe punishment to find forgiveness if they honestly repent to Allah for their deed. Also keep in mind how hard it would be to implement this particular punishment, requiring as it does four witnesses to the actual act of penetration. And also keep in mind what the hadith above seems to be stating, that this particular punishment for this crime cannot be carried out until the Imam (as) returns.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

But where in al-Qur'an does it proscribe stoning as a punishment? How is this a humane and just form of punishment?

How is it humane and just for a man/woman to completely abuse and disregard their spouses and children by committing a major sin and risk bringing an illegitimate child into this world?

What a selfish and horrible crime. There is no excuse for it, especially in Islam where you are allowed 4 wives and as many temporary wives as you want. To have so many options and to still do this act shows a complete disregard for their families, societies, and most importantly, God Almighty

was salam

Edited by lotfilms
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So going by that, it would appear that the stoning punishment for adultery cannot be carried out in these times, only when Imam Mahdi (as) re-appears.

interesting.

since a male can have more than one wife, is the married male exempt from being muhsin if he fornicates with an unmarried woman?

how awful it would be for an innocent person to be stoned to death. using stoning as a method of punishment seems so far removed from the way we live life today and it is used to great effect against us in the international spotlight. People today see stoning as uncivilized. It seems like so much bloodlust.

Edited by Photi
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No, if I understand it correctly, if he has a wife who is sexually available to him, he is muhsan, so the punishment of stoning would apply to him if he fornicated as such. That his partner in sin was unmarried doesn't change that.

Correct, that illustrates the fact the just because a woman is unmarried doesn't mean that being with her is not adultery.

There is a clearly defined line between zina and marriage.

I can't just go sleep with any woman I wish that I find on the street, or make muta'h with just anyone I please.

If you lust for them in a carnal primate way, she becomes haraam to you.

That is how I understand it.

Was-Salaam

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The one who undergoes this punishment though, as hard as it is, has thus atoned for their sin and will not be punished for it in the Hereafter. That said, a person need not undergo this severe punishment to find forgiveness if they honestly repent to Allah for their deed.

Does that mean a man/woman could repent and thus avoid the stoning?

Peace.

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Does that mean a man/woman could repent and thus avoid the stoning?

Peace.

(wasalam)

Yes, Shaykh Mufid (ar) in his al-Muqni`a puts it very well. He writes:

و من زنى و تاب قبل أن تقوم الشهادة عليه بالزنى درأت عنه التوبة الحد فإن تاب بعد قيام الشهادة عليه كان للإمام الخيار في العفو عنه أو إقامة الحد عليه حسب ما يراه من المصلحة في ذلك له و لأهل الإسلام فإن لم يتب لم يجز العفو عنه في الحد بحال

And whoever fornicates and repents prior to the testimony against him with fornication being established, the repentance repels the hadd from him. And if he repented after the establishment of the testimony against him, it is up to the Imam to decide with regards to pardoning him or establishing the hadd against him according to what he sees of the benefit in that for him and for the people of Islam. And if he did not repent, then pardon from him is not permissible in regards to the hadd in (that) state.

و من زنى و لم تقم عليه بينة بذلك فأقر به عند الإمام ليقيم عليه الحد و يطهره بذلك من الآثام كان محسنا مأجورا فإن قتله الحد أو لم يقتله فقد أدى ما عليه و تبرع بما يستحق به الثواب فإن ستر على نفسه و تاب فيما بينه و بين الله عز و جل و لم يبد صفحته للإمام كان أفضل له و أعظم ثوابا.

And whoever fornicates and the evidence is not established against him, so he confesses to it with the Imam so that the hadd may be established upon him and that he be purified by that from the sins, he is doing well and is rewarded. So if the hadd kills him or does not kill him, then what is upon him has been carried out and he voluntarily did what deserves blessing. And if he concealed it upon himself, and repented in what is between him and Allah `azza wa jalla, and his side (i.e. his “side” that was concealed) did not appear for the Imam, it is better for him and greater in reward.

و ذلك لما روي عن النبي (صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) أنه قال من أتى منكم شيئا مما يوجب عليه حدا أو عقابا فليستتر بظل الله عز و جل و يتوب إليه فيما بينه و بينه فإنه أقرب إلى الله عز و جل من إظهاره ما ستر عليه و لا يبد أحدكم صفحته بالذنوب فإنه من أبدى صفحته لإقامة الحد عليه هلك و لم يصبر على الحق فيه .

And that is due to what is narrated from the Prophet صلى الله عليه وآله that he said: Whoever of you comes with something of what necessitates the hadd or a punishment, then he is to conceal himself with the shade of Allah `azza wa jalla and repent to Him in what is between him and He. For it is closer to Allah `azza wa jalla than revealing what was concealed upon him. And do not any one of you show your side with sins, for it is that whoever shows his side that the hadd may be established upon him is destroyed and he will not be endure the right in it (or, him).

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There is a sahih hadith that says:

683¡ 13 - 3 æÈÅÓäÇÏÉ¡ Úä íæäÓ¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå ÓäÇä ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæÚÈÏÇááå (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã): ÇáÑÌã Ýí ÇáÞÑÂä Þæá Çááå ÚÒæÌá: ÅÐÇ Òäì ÇáÔíÎ æÇáÔíÎÉ ÝÇÑÌãæåãÇ ÇáÈÊÉ ÝÅäåãÇ ÞÖíÇ ÇáÔåæÉ (1).

And by his isnad from Yunus from `Abdullah b. Sinan. He said: Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã said: Stoning in the Quran is the saying of Allah ÚÒæÌá "When the shaykh and the shaykha have fornicated so stone them definitively for they have carried out desire"

As to it being just, it is just considering the immensity of the crime (remember, this is something that people can go to the Fire for, which is far more severe than a single painful death in this world). As to being humane, it's meant to be a horrible and painful way to die, it isn't meant as something quick and painless. The one who undergoes this punishment though, as hard as it is, has thus atoned for their sin and will not be punished for it in the Hereafter. That said, a person need not undergo this severe punishment to find forgiveness if they honestly repent to Allah for their deed. Also keep in mind how hard it would be to implement this particular punishment, requiring as it does four witnesses to the actual act of penetration. And also keep in mind what the hadith above seems to be stating, that this particular punishment for this crime cannot be carried out until the Imam (as) returns.

(salam)

I don't quite understand the bolded part. Do you mean to say that when the 12th Imam (as) returns, only then will the punishment be carried out?

So let's consider Imran Khan, the chairman of Pakistan's Tehreek-e-Insaaf; he admitted to being a zani, and I believe that he has sincerely repented. Is he exempt from this punishment then?

Thanks, (wasalam)

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So let's consider Imran Khan, the chairman of Pakistan's Tehreek-e-Insaaf; he admitted to being a zani, and I believe that he has sincerely repented. Is he exempt from this punishment then?

Since I doubt he would confess four times in court, he would be exempt anyway, wouldn't he? And if he has sincerely repented, why would he want to confess in court?

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And as far as I know,the basis for stoning according to the Sunnis is the laughable story about alleged verses prescribing it having been eaten by a goat; and the fact that stoning was once present in the Koran was proclaimed by Umar and Aysha.Since these two people are not exactly popular for Shias,I guess they don't believe the verse-eating goat story....So,are there any scriptural basis for stoning in Shia Islam?

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Is not there a CLEAR verse in Quran describing the punishment for adultery as stoning till death. How can someone issue a fatwa against it then?

There is no ayat in the Qur'an permitting stoning.

I would never lift a rock against someone, rather I would run to protect them from the stones before I ever threw one at them insha'Allah.

"Let he without sin cast the first stone" - Jesus according to Bible

"How can you point to the thorn in your brother's eye when there is a log in your own?" - Muhammad according to hadith

(salam)

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There is no ayat in the Qur'an permitting stoning.

I would never lift a rock against someone, rather I would run to protect them from the stones before I ever threw one at them insha'Allah.

"Let he without sin cast the first stone" - Jesus according to Bible

"How can you point to the thorn in your brother's eye when there is a log in your own?" - Muhammad according to hadith

(salam)

strange !

according to Quran...

punishment of illegal intercourse (zina) for unmarried person = 70 lashes

punishment of illegal intercourse (zina) for married person = stoning

is not it true ?

Edited by molaayi_from_lahore
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strange !

according to Quran...

punishment of illegal intercourse (zina) for unmarried person = 70 lashes

punishment of illegal intercourse (zina) for married person = stoning

is not it true ?

Quote the verse in the Qur'an which says to stone anyone for any reason.

There is not a single verse in the Qur'an which says to stone anyone.

Zero.

No such verse exists in the Qur'an.

http://www.mostmerciful.com/stoning-is-shirk.htm

Edited by AlayhisSalaam
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There is no verse in the Koran mentioning stoning.But Sunnis claim originally there was;"unfortunately" a goat came and ate the paper where it was written (don't laugh,Aisha said that...XD).And then Umar,another bright fellow in the Sunnis' eyes,said that indeed there was this verse,and therefore it has to be implemented,even if it does not appear anywhere....The prescribed punishment according to the Koran consists in lashes;stoning was a Jewish practice,but even the Jews abandoned it when their Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

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There is no verse in the Koran mentioning stoning.But Sunnis claim originally there was;"unfortunately" a goat came and ate the paper where it was written (don't laugh,Aisha said that...XD).And then Umar,another bright fellow in the Sunnis' eyes,said that indeed there was this verse,and therefore it has to be implemented,even if it does not appear anywhere....The prescribed punishment according to the Koran consists in lashes;stoning was a Jewish practice,but even the Jews abandoned it when their Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed.

^ Exactly bro.

Because Sunni documents say that Aisha and Abu Bakr and Omar said something then we must listen and obey them...

lol

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So stoning is unlawful because its not mentioned in the Quran!

What about the hadiths?!

From Shaykh Saduqsra.gifKamal al Deen wa tamam al-ni'mah.

Following is taken from a lengthy tradition, in which Saad bin Abdullah Qummi meets Imame Zamana (a.j) and asks his eminence some questions.

Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Hatim Naufali alias Kermani: Narrated to us Abul Abbas Ahmad bin Isa Washsha Baghdadi: Ahmad bin Tahir Qummi: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Najr bin Sahl Shaibani: Narrated to us Ahmad bin Masroor from Saad bin Abdullah Qummi:

Then I asked: “What is open obscenity? That if the wife commits, the

husband is entitled to expel her from his house even during her menses?”

He as.gif replied: “It is Musahiqa and not fornication. Because if she commits

fornication they will apply the penalty on her and if one wants to marry her there

is no problem in it. And the penalty that is given is no obstacle for it. But if she

commits Musahiqa, it is obligatory that she must be stoned and being stoned is a

disgrace, as for whomsoever Allah has ordered stoning, He has disgraced that

person. Therefore no one is permitted to marry her.”

Here is what Ayatollah Dastghaib Sherazi says in his book Greater Sins:

"The punishment for illegal sexual act with a woman is hundred lashes. The penalty of illicit sexual intercourse between a married woman and married man is stoning to death."

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So stoning is unlawful because its not mentioned in the Quran!

What about the hadiths?!

From Shaykh Saduqsra.gifKamal al Deen wa tamam al-ni'mah.

Following is taken from a lengthy tradition, in which Saad bin Abdullah Qummi meets Imame Zamana (a.j) and asks his eminence some questions.

Narrated to us Muhammad bin Ali bin Muhammad bin Hatim Naufali alias Kermani: Narrated to us Abul Abbas Ahmad bin Isa Washsha Baghdadi: Ahmad bin Tahir Qummi: Narrated to us Muhammad bin Najr bin Sahl Shaibani: Narrated to us Ahmad bin Masroor from Saad bin Abdullah Qummi:

Then I asked: “What is open obscenity? That if the wife commits, the

husband is entitled to expel her from his house even during her menses?”

He as.gif replied: “It is Musahiqa and not fornication. Because if she commits

fornication they will apply the penalty on her and if one wants to marry her there

is no problem in it. And the penalty that is given is no obstacle for it. But if she

commits Musahiqa, it is obligatory that she must be stoned and being stoned is a

disgrace, as for whomsoever Allah has ordered stoning, He has disgraced that

person. Therefore no one is permitted to marry her.”

Here is what Ayatollah Dastghaib Sherazi says in his book Greater Sins:

"The punishment for illegal sexual act with a woman is hundred lashes. The penalty of illicit sexual intercourse between a married woman and married man is stoning to death."

Any authentic hadith from Muhammad(sawws) and the Ahlul-Bayt?

One or two hadith from third parties, or weak ahad hadith, are not enough to rule in Shariah.

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Then I asked: “What is open obscenity? That if the wife commits, the

husband is entitled to expel her from his house even during her menses?”

He as.gif replied: “It is Musahiqa and not fornication. Because if she commits

fornication they will apply the penalty on her and if one wants to marry her there

is no problem in it. And the penalty that is given is no obstacle for it. But if she

commits Musahiqa, it is obligatory that she must be stoned and being stoned is a

disgrace, as for whomsoever Allah has ordered stoning, He has disgraced that

person. Therefore no one is permitted to marry her.”

Just to clarify, but as-sahq is referring to tribadism:

http://www.*******.org/hadiths/hudud/lesbianism-and-pimping

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Any authentic hadith from Muhammad(sawws) and the Ahlul-Bayt?

One or two hadith from third parties, or weak ahad hadith, are not enough to rule in Shariah.

salam.gif

The hadith that I quoted is of Imam Mehdi as.gif(Imame Zamana).

Which third party are you talking about brother?

Some other traditions mentioning the punishment of stoning.

  • And from him from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-`Abbas b. Musa from Yunus b. `Abd ar-Rahman from Ishaq b. `Ammar from al-Mu`alla b. Khunays. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about a man who had intercourse with his wife, so she transferred his water (i.e. his semen) to a virgin girl and she became pregnant. So he said: The child belongs to the man, and against the woman is stoning, and against the girl is the hadd.
  • Sa`d b. `Abdullah in Basa’ir ad-Darajat from Muhammad b. Abi ‘l-Khattab from Muhammad b. Isma`il b. Bazi` from Salih b. `Uqba from Yazid b. `Abd al-Malik. He said: I heard Abu Ja`far (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying: Verily stoning is upon the one who does the sexual intercourse (an-nakih) and the one upon whom the sexual intercourse is done (al-mankuh), male or female, when they are muhsan. And it (stoning) is upon the male when he was mankuh, whether he was muhsan or not muhsan.
  • And by the isnad from al-Halabi from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: I asked him about the testimony of women in stoning. So he said: When there are three men and two women. And when there are two men and four women it is not admissible in stoning.
  • And from him from Ahmad from Ibn Mahbub from Ibrahim al-Hariqi [or, al-Khariqi]. He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying: The testimony of women is admissible in what men are not able to look at and bear witness against. And their testimony is admissible in marriage but it is not admissible in divorce nor in blood but it is admissible in the hadd of fornication when there are three men and two women. And it is not admissible when there are two men and four women. And their testimony is not admissible in stoning.
    And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub likewise.

*******.org

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salam.gif

The hadith that I quoted is of Imam Mehdi as.gif(Imame Zamana).

Which third party are you talking about brother?

Some other traditions mentioning the punishment of stoning.

  • And from him from Ahmad b. Muhammad from al-`Abbas b. Musa from Yunus b. `Abd ar-Rahman from Ishaq b. `Ammar from al-Mu`alla b. Khunays. He said: I asked Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã about a man who had intercourse with his wife, so she transferred his water (i.e. his semen) to a virgin girl and she became pregnant. So he said: The child belongs to the man, and against the woman is stoning, and against the girl is the hadd.
  • Sa`d b. `Abdullah in Basa’ir ad-Darajat from Muhammad b. Abi ‘l-Khattab from Muhammad b. Isma`il b. Bazi` from Salih b. `Uqba from Yazid b. `Abd al-Malik. He said: I heard Abu Ja`far (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) saying: Verily stoning is upon the one who does the sexual intercourse (an-nakih) and the one upon whom the sexual intercourse is done (al-mankuh), male or female, when they are muhsan. And it (stoning) is upon the male when he was mankuh, whether he was muhsan or not muhsan.
  • And by the isnad from al-Halabi from Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã. He said: I asked him about the testimony of women in stoning. So he said: When there are three men and two women. And when there are two men and four women it is not admissible in stoning.
  • And from him from Ahmad from Ibn Mahbub from Ibrahim al-Hariqi [or, al-Khariqi]. He said: I heard Abu `Abdillah Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã saying: The testimony of women is admissible in what men are not able to look at and bear witness against. And their testimony is admissible in marriage but it is not admissible in divorce nor in blood but it is admissible in the hadd of fornication when there are three men and two women. And it is not admissible when there are two men and four women. And their testimony is not admissible in stoning.
    And the Shaykh narrated it by his isnad from al-Hasan b. Mahbub likewise.

*******.org

And what about the doctrine of forgiving sinners if they repent before the execution and stoning NOT to be enforced till the Mahdi comes?

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And what about the doctrine of forgiving sinners if they repent before the execution and stoning NOT to be enforced till the Mahdi comes?

I think you have wrongly inferred from my posts that i somehow reject forgiving someone who repents, and the suspension of Rajm till the reappearance of Qaim (a.j)....

My only point is that you cannot declare Rajm to be unIslamic or that it is not part of our shariat.

@Bro Macissac are there traditions that suspend this hadd till the reappearance of Imam Mehdi (a.j)(other than the one in Kamal al Deen)?

Or scholars who have endorsed this view?

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I think you have wrongly inferred from my posts that i somehow reject forgiving someone who repents, and the suspension of Rajm till the reappearance of Qaim (a.j)....

My only point is that you cannot declare Rajm to be unIslamic or that it is not part of our shariat.

?

by the same token can you say that stoning is a specifically Islamic practice?  is it a relic that pre-dates Islam and Islam simply finds a way to deal with it, or is it a practice vitally important to the proper running of a Muslim society?

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I think you have wrongly inferred from my posts that i somehow reject forgiving someone who repents, and the suspension of Rajm till the reappearance of Qaim (a.j)....

My only point is that you cannot declare Rajm to be unIslamic or that it is not part of our shariat.

@Bro Macissac are there traditions that suspend this hadd till the reappearance of Imam Mehdi (a.j)(other than the one in Kamal al Deen)?

Or scholars who have endorsed this view?

I know that (unfortunately)stoning is part of sharia.But it seems to me that Shias tend to be more lenient than Sunnis:there is the possibility of repentance which saves one from stoning,and this lacks in Sunni Islam;and there is the possibility of procrastinating the execution till the arrive of the Mahdi.Also the cutting of thieves' hands is a little more compassionate:Shias cut off fingers,not all the hand.My impression is that Shia Islam is more humane than Sunni in enforcing hadd penalties,but maybe I am wrong.

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by the same token can you say that stoning is a specifically Islamic practice? is it a relic that pre-dates Islam and Islam simply finds a way to deal with it, or

we have traditions of Masomeenas.gif regarding stoning so it is an Islamic practice.

is it a practice vitally important to the proper running of a Muslim society?

Yes

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