Jump to content
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!) ×
Guests can now reply in ALL forum topics (No registration required!)
In the Name of God بسم الله

Your Views

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

"You fail"? How old are you - 10?!

Montazeri was not a student of Khomeini after he had obtained marjaiyyat and if they had a fall out, I doubt Montazeri would still insist that Khomeini's ruling should surpass his own. This is common sense, stop being disingenuous.

What does me being 10 have anything to do with you failing? Don't try to divert the issue.

Btw, i saw you had a farsi poem in your profile. Do you know farsi?

If you do, google Montazeris letter to Imam Khomeini in farsi. That way all your "doubt" would disappear.

These letters were sent back and forth at the last years of Imam Khomeinis life.

I can't be bothered translating them for you as i don't find you being worth the time or trouble.

Montazeri was not a student of Khomeini after he had obtained marjaiyyat

Silly comment to make. What does being an expert in figh have anything to do with stop being a student?

You know being a mujtahid doesn't make you an Ayatollah right?

It was in figh that Montzaeri said that Imam Khomeini surpassed im in his ruling anyways.

Even Imam Khomeini said you should stick to figh and leave politics alone.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

What does me being 10 have anything to do with you failing? Don't try to divert the issue.

I didn't try and divert the issue. You seem to have a difficulty in reading. I just mentioned in passing that you sound like a 10 year old...

Silly comment to make. What does being an expert in figh have anything to do with stop being a student?

You know being a mujtahid doesn't make you an Ayatollah right?

Hence the use of the word 'marjaiyyat'. I don't think you know the difference between the terms 'ayatullah', 'mujatahid' and 'marja'. It's almost pointless talking to you.

It was in figh that Montzaeri said that Imam Khomeini surpassed im in his ruling anyways.

Even Imam Khomeini said you should stick to figh and leave politics alone.

If Montazeri was only referring to fiqh, why is it even relevant to this discussion? You don't make the slightest bit of sense.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't try and divert the issue. You seem to have a difficulty in reading. I just mentioned in passing that you sound like a 10 year old...

Hence the use of the word 'marjaiyyat'. I don't think you know the difference between the terms 'ayatullah', 'mujatahid' and 'marja'. It's almost pointless talking to you.

If Montazeri was only referring to fiqh, why is it even relevant to this discussion? You don't make the slightest bit of sense.

Don't worry about me knowing the difference, you still fail on answering the questions, but rather changing the subject on asking how much i know.

If Montazeri was only referring to fiqh, why is it even relevant to this discussion? You don't make the slightest bit of sense.

Wow you are a slow one.

Because the reason Ayatollah Khomeini dismissed Montazeri was because montazeri was complaining about Imam Khomeinis rulings on prisoners and executions. <<<<< FIGH

And he was protecting his family member that was a murderer, as well as complaining to foreign sources about it.

Here at least let me link you to Imam Khomeinis letter, which is the only translated thing i can find, maybe you understand english better than farsi.

http://www.baabeilm.org/khomeini/montezari.pdf

In your recent letter to me, you said that, in accordance with the Shari ah, you give priority to

my views over your own. I consider God my witness when I point out the following issues:

Now did you read the letters mr pshyco?? It's easy to find in farsi, please do so and paste your own translation here.

Edited by repenter
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Uhuu... coming from someone who generalizes all the Palestinians to be nasibis and saddam worshippers. The hypocrites do expose themselves.

Well at least I don't accuse my fellow Shi'a brethren of kufr and hypocrisy! The pro-IRI folk have no problem in calling those who disagree with them as hypocrites and kafirs (see post above for an example), and yet they are so defensive about the haters of the Shi'as!

Um, your point being?

Ayatollah Borojerdi was even longer than that, still most people changed their marja to Ayatollah Khomeini.

Of course this is not something i can prove, so don't take it as a fact, but i would say its pretty obvious.

Ayatollah Borojerdi became the a'alam in 1946 after the passing away of Ayatollah Abul Hasan Isfahani and passed away in 1961. Amongst the mara'je of the 20th century, no one remained a'alam for as long as Ayatollah Khoei. Just thought I'd point it out, and this time, even your favourite source, wikipedia, agrees with me.

Edited by Socrates
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Don't worry about me knowing the difference, you still fail on answering the questions, but rather changing the subject on asking how much i know.

If Montazeri was only referring to fiqh, why is it even relevant to this discussion? You don't make the slightest bit of sense.

Wow you are a slow one.

Because the reason Ayatollah Khomeini dismissed Montazeri was because montazeri was complaining about Imam Khomeinis rulings on prisoners and executions. <<<<< FIGH

And he was protecting his family member that was a murderer, as well as complaining to foreign sources about it.

Even if it is a matter of fiqh, you just aren't using the slightest bit of common sense. I doubt that after such a fall out, Ayatullah Montazeri would say hey his 'rulings surpass mine so please ignore me'. It almost seems as though Ayatullah Khomeini used this in the wrong context simply to fade Montazeri out of the picture. You act like he's infallible. Like I said, you are being utterly disingenuous.

mr pshyco??

Seriously...grow up.

why do you guys always have such a victimization complex...you guys all seem to flock well on this site to me, mods/admins give you a free pass to use whatever twisted logic and kufr propaganda you want to give...

Oh please, yer' breakin' my heart. :rolleyes:

Ryu, Repenter et al: Regardless of whether Ayat. Khomeini told Ayat. Montazeri to stay out of political affairs and regardless of whether he was right or wrong to do so, none of you are in any position to attribute terms such as 'naivety' or 'political immaturity'. The lot of you IRI ass-lickers are appalled the minute anyone says anything about Khomeini - but God forbid anyone should tell you off for saying anything about another 'alim who happened to disagree with him eh! You hypocrites.

Edited by Psychopath
Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if it is a matter of fiqh, you just aren't using the slightest bit of common sense. I doubt that after such a fall out, Ayatullah Montazeri would say hey his 'rulings surpass mine so please ignore me'. It almost seems as though Ayatullah Khomeini used this in the wrong context simply to fade Montazeri out of the picture. You act like he's infallible. Like I said, you are being utterly disingenuous.

Seriously...grow up.

I rest my case ;)

Typical of you EDITED you try to divert the issue by saying grow up, and you think khomeini is infallible and all that old rusted stuff you always say.

You chickened out and didn't go read the letter of Montazeri, or you did and to embarrassed to admit it. No one minds disagreement within the circle of ulama, Ayatollah Sistani disagrees with Ayatollah Khamenei, but you don't see Ayatollah sistani protecting murderers and jeopardizing the security of Iraq or Iran. And you didn't see Ayatollah Sistani disobeying Ayatollah Khoei.

And noone can take you seriously when you say "i dont give a toss about what you say" and you keep answering back with meaningless comments.

Like a kid you are provoked so easily just like the other EDITED (funny how you called me that when you seem to be the biggest fan of them all)

You are wasting my time, wasalam.

Mod's Note : Stop abusing another member. Be nice.

Edited by Zareen
Mod's note
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I rest my case ;)

Typical of you hypocrites, you try to divert the issue by saying grow up, and you think khomeini is infallible and all that old rusted stuff you always say.

You chickened out and didn't go read the letter of Montazeri, or you did and to embarrassed to admit it. No one minds disagreement within the circle of ulama, Ayatollah Sistani disagrees with Ayatollah Khamenei, but you don't see Ayatollah sistani protecting murderers and jeopardizing the security of Iraq or Iran. And you didn't see Ayatollah Sistani disobeying Ayatollah Khoei.

And noone can take you seriously when you say "i dont give a toss about what you say" and you keep answering back with meaningless comments.

Like a kid you are provoked so easily just like the other hypocrites(funny how you called me that when you seem to be the biggest fan of them all)

You are wasting my time, wasalam.

I did read the letter - which is why I made a response. You also make no refutation to being called a hypocrite other than to respond with something like "No, YOU'RE the hypocrite". Seriously, go back to school and also EDITED

Ciao.

Mod's Note: Please do not insult another member.

Edited by Zareen
Mod's note
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

I don't know about the authentication of the videos. But...

According to a credible friend who personally attended the funeral of Ayatollayh Montazeri, some of the so-called "lebas shakhsis" insulted Montazei even though he'd died. They also tried to disperse the people who attended the funeral from different parts of Iran. I'm not a fan of Montazeri but I think we should know important figures before we insult them. Just because we believe Ayyatollah Khamenei is qualified it doesn't give us the right to knock his criticisers.

What some Lebas shakhsis did on that day wasn't right. If we are Muslims and followers of Imam Ali we should be polite and kind. Whether we like it or not according to the books and documents, Montazeri had paid his dues to Iranians many years ago, he and his Son, Mohammad, spend many years of their lives in Pahlavi regime's prison under excruciation. They were in jail just because they’d promoted Islamic values. The Islamic activities of these people before Iran’s revolution- when people were severely punished for defending Islam and Islamic values- at least shows that they were faithful.

We must not forget that Mohammad Montazeri (Montazeri's son) was one of the 72 martyrs in the terrorist attack on 7th of Tir (28th of June). These are all documented and the Islamic Republic confirms it.

Yes, Montazeri had different views from those of Iranian authorities but don't forget that he explicitly expressed his views when he was the second power of Iranian government (on that time he was the deputy leader of Iran). I think there are many reasons that show Montazeri didn't have any bad intentions.

I believe the lebas shaksis should know the person before attacking/ offending him/her. It's sad to hear them label a person without knowing him/her and the things he/she 'd done for Islam and Muslims.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about the authentication of the videos. But...

According to a credible friend who personally attended the funeral of Ayatollayh Montazeri, some of the so-called "lebas shakhsis" insulted Montazei even though he'd died. They also tried to disperse the people who attended the funeral from different parts of Iran. I'm not a fan of Montazeri but I think we should know important figures before we insult them. Just because we believe Ayyatollah Khamenei is qualified it doesn't give us the right to knock his criticisers.

What some Lebas shakhsis did on that day wasn't right. If we are Muslims and followers of Imam Ali we should be polite and kind. Whether we like it or not according to the books and documents, Montazeri had paid his dues to Iranians many years ago, he and his Son, Mohammad, spend many years of their lives in Pahlavi regime's prison under excruciation. They were in jail just because they’d promoted Islamic values. The Islamic activities of these people before Iran’s revolution- when people were severely punished for defending Islam and Islamic values- at least shows that they were faithful.

We must not forget that Mohammad Montazeri (Montazeri's son) was one of the 72 martyrs in the terrorist attack on 7th of Tir (28th of June). These are all documented and the Islamic Republic confirms it.

Yes, Montazeri had different views from those of Iranian authorities but don't forget that he explicitly expressed his views when he was the second power of Iranian government (on that time he was the deputy leader of Iran). I think there are many reasons that show Montazeri didn't have any bad intentions.

I believe the lebas shaksis should know the person before attacking/ offending him/her. It's sad to hear them label a person without knowing him/her and the things he/she 'd done for Islam and Muslims.

See, this is the attitude i like.

The problem i have with this though is that all though some "lebas shakhsis" might have been out of line, i don't believe the majority are, as i know plenty of them.

Ayatollah Montazeris son is a shahid, and he deserves more respect than all of the shias are able to give him.

On the matter of Ayatollah Montazeris funeral, it was the case of security as well. A lot of conservatives were present as well, and a lot of security was present because thing could have gone out of hand and one group would blame the other.

All in all the funeral was not bad, and it went on without much trouble which is a good thing.

I also never believed Ayatollah Montazeri had bad intentions, thats why i pray Allah forgives him for his mistakes, just like everyone else. I do however trust Imam khomeinis analysis of him, that he was gullible and that politics wasn't his strong side.

In the matter of personal figh as in being a marja, i believe his status is high.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

People are angry, and they have a right to be so, as saanei & co are playing into the hands of the enemies of Islam. As Imam Khomeini (ra) said; if your enemies praise you, than know that there is something wrong with you. Look at the articles written by Zionists columnists on Sanei and Muntazeri. They are full of praise of these ''rebel ayatollahs'', ''fighting against the reigime''

Then I guess there must be something wrong with Imam Ali (as) because of all the praise the 3 Khalifahs gave him. After all you quoted a hadith from IMAM KHOMEINI!!!! Who needs Imam Ali (as) when we have Imam Khomeini!

oh and I should also point out that the offices of both Ayatullah Montazeri and Sanei have confirmed the attacks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Then I guess there must be something wrong with Imam Ali (as) because of all the praise the 3 Khalifahs gave him. After all you quoted a hadith from IMAM KHOMEINI!!!! Who needs Imam Ali (as) when we have Imam Khomeini!

oh and I should also point out that the offices of both Ayatullah Montazeri and Sanei have confirmed the attacks.

There is a reason why they are called ayatollah, they read the hadiths and tell us the meaning and occasion it should be referred to.

Now its up to the individual to decide which Ayatollah is more right than the other.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

There is a reason why they are called ayatollah, they read the hadiths and tell us the meaning and occasion it should be referred to.

Now its up to the individual to decide which Ayatollah is more right than the other.

Imam Ali (as) used to be praised by his enemies and therefore what Imam Khomeini has said is clearly wrong. It's a logical conclusion that requires a brain to understand, not an ayatullah.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Imam Ali (as) used to be praised by his enemies and therefore what Imam Khomeini has said is clearly wrong. It's a logical conclusion that requires a brain to understand, not an ayatullah.

First of all i'm glad that you understand more than Imam Khomeini on the subject.

And there is a difference in being praised in the heat of battle, than being praised in political affairs. The tradition back then was to talk like that in battle situations.

However you also had hypocrites from within that praise you, but they are still your enemy. There is a difference when hypocrites praise you than when clear enemies praise you in todays political world.

And both needs to be taken under consideration and watched out for.

A man hypocritically started praising Imam Ali, though he had no faith in him and Imam Ali hearing these praises from him said "I am less than what you tell about me but more than what you think about me".

If you actually did understand geopolitics and the context at with Imam Khomeini was talking

in(google safiye noor) you would come to understand that it is the identified enemies Imam Khomeini was talking about, and also in political terms.

You shouldn't be so quick to come to conclusion such as if X then Y. You won't get far with that.

It's funny though that you mention Imam Ali being praised by his enemies, where did you read that? Was it an ayatollah that wrote the book maybe? ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(bismillah)

Before I start let me cite a hadith from Imam Ali :

«سیهلک فی صنفان: محب مفرط یذهب به الحب الی غیر الحق و مبغض مفرط یذهب به البغض الی غیر الحق و خیر الناس فی حالا النمط الاوسط فالزموه.»

"Two types of people will be damned on my account: The one that goes too far in loving me, so is then deviated from the truth (some say حق in here, refers to Allah) and the one who goes too far in hating me. The best people are the ones who seek moderation in loving me, stick to them”

See? Even Imam Ali (as) advices us to love him with thought and contemplation. We love Imam Ali because of his manner, knowledge, kindness and at last but not least because he leads us to God. We can’t say that we love him just because he is called Imam Ali.

Just like the way we seek a sensible purpose in our love toward Ahlalbayt which were infallible (Masoom), we should seek a purpose in our respect toward Ayatollahs which are not infallible (still we refer to them because logically we have came to the conclusion that they know the rules of Islam better than us). To me the ultimate reason of following the intellectuals is to better understand the meaning of life in the way that God wants me to understand.

It’s true that some Ayatollahs know the religion better than us but we should bear in mind that because they are humans they are bounded to place and time.

Look, I don’t want to bring up another debate in here since things are messed up already. I say anytime that we face a complicated case we should say: Wait a minute, I’m following God; does the thing that Ayatollah X say really agree with the things that God rules? For example, I am personally opposed to the executions that took place at the first years of Islamic republic, especially when you see that some young adults among them (12 or 13 year old boys who were not even mature according to Islamic rules) . I detest those actions because I don’t find it congruent neither with what God has ruled nor with the life manner of Ahlalbayt; did ever Imam Ali or Imam Hassan or etc, order: "kill that immature boy because he belongs to the opposite group and he doesn't want to change his mind"?

Do you remember the story of the widow who didn’t recognize Imam Ali by his appearance and started to complain about Amir al Momenin and told him that she doesn’t like Imam Ali because he has sent his husband to war and thus is the reason for her husband's death. How did Imam Ali treat that Woman? I don’t remember him jailing her or treating her bad. Instead he helped her to make bread, played with her kids and apologised for the troubles that she had been through while he was the ruler of the Islamic community.

Can we see this manner in the way that today's so-called Islamic governments all over the world, treat their citizens?

I believe that Ahalbayt (as) are the symbols of pure Islam and they should be our ultimate patterns in life.

All I’m saying is never lose your mission in life.

We are obeying God not political wings. When our soul is transmitted to hereafter we are judged by God’s criteria not those of the right or left wing. It’s really good to enjoy the details that Ayyatollahs give us about Islam but we should remember that God has gifted us with our thoughts and wisdom. We can compare any kind of advice or order with God and ahlalbayt's guidlines.

God bless you all

Edited by Agrin
Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone asked who the enemies of the IRI are which is a great question. It is like going to a ball game where you can't know the players without a score card. One of the signals of a failing revolution is when they start eating each other.

Who is an enemy of Iran? In Iran it means the opposition and by their own decree he who is in opposition to Iran is also an enemy of Islam. What better position can they be in. If one is an enemy of Allah it is easy to kill them or torture them or to have the most fun they rape and torture and kill them to boot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Yeah, and unfortunately a downside of so-called Islamic governments is that many people mistake the wrong actions of the so-called Islamic governments for the religion of Isalm itself.

Just think about the possible consequences on people's faith in Isalm and spirituality (especially on the average people who don't have enough knowledge about the true Isalm)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Yeah, and unfortunately a downside of so-called Islamic governments is that many people mistake the wrong actions of the so-called Islamic governments for the religion of Isalm itself.

Just think about the possible consequences on people's faith in Isalm and spirituality (especially on the average people who don't have enough knowledge about the true Isalm)

Succinct.

The so-called Islamic governance has actually did more damage to the religion than good. It has alienated scores of average people from religion.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

Someone asked who the enemies of the IRI are which is a great question. It is like going to a ball game where you can't know the players without a score card. One of the signals of a failing revolution is when they start eating each other.

Who is an enemy of Iran? In Iran it means the opposition and by their own decree he who is in opposition to Iran is also an enemy of Islam. What better position can they be in. If one is an enemy of Allah it is easy to kill them or torture them or to have the most fun they rape and torture and kill them to boot.

I asked that question in which no one has replied- yet.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Veteran Member

Succinct.

The so-called Islamic governance has actually did more damage to the religion than good. It has alienated scores of average people from religion.

Are we talking about the IRI here? Is that the so-called Islamic Government? If it is then it is very sad to see how blind people are to the benefits of having our own government.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

First of all i'm glad that you understand more than Imam Khomeini on the subject.

Yeah me too.

And there is a difference in being praised in the heat of battle, than being praised in political affairs. The tradition back then was to talk like that in battle situations.

However you also had hypocrites from within that praise you, but they are still your enemy. There is a difference when hypocrites praise you than when clear enemies praise you in todays political world.

And both needs to be taken under consideration and watched out for.

I didn't even know about that tradition. I wasn't talking about that...

If you actually did understand geopolitics and the context at with Imam Khomeini was talking

in(google safiye noor) you would come to understand that it is the identified enemies Imam Khomeini was talking about, and also in political terms.

I'm sorry that doesn't make sense. You are saying what Imam Khomeini meant was that if your enemy praises you in politics there must be something wrong with you. But you see, you can't separate politics from other things. Literally EVERYTHING is political..

You shouldn't be so quick to come to conclusion such as if X then Y. You won't get far with that.

No I can if it's such simple logic.

It's funny though that you mention Imam Ali being praised by his enemies, where did you read that? Was it an ayatollah that wrote the book maybe? ;)

I criticise one sentence by Imam Khomeini and now I am against all ayatullahs... interesting.

Yeah, and unfortunately a downside of so-called Islamic governments is that many people mistake the wrong actions of the so-called Islamic governments for the religion of Isalm itself.

That's the people's ignorance. Not the Islamic government's fault.

Just think about the possible consequences on people's faith in Isalm and spirituality (especially on the average people who don't have enough knowledge about the true Isalm)

That's like me saying I'm such a bad muslim and I'm setting a horrible example "for the average people who don't have enough knowledge about the true islam", so I might as well give up being a muslim and become kafar. You don't give up because you are not perfect.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

(salam)

All I know is that if suddenly my enemy ( US/West) starts supporting my cause or montezari or senai's cause then their is something dodgy going on .. do you know what I mean ?..if senai and montazri are on haq why would the devil support them ?

Imam Ali (as) is and will always be on HAQ, why did Abu Sufyan (la) want to support him?

Your logic is terrible.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

America would be more than willing to support the Islamic Republic; if Iran were to agree to their terms. Your terrible point is?

I wasn't making a point - just showing the invalidity of the above poster's "point".

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Advanced Member

lol the people that attack the pro-IRI people are no different from the pro-IRI people themselves, if that's what you guys are claiming. Both sides have their own opinions and arguments, lets not play cat and mouse games. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion be it pro-IRI pro Green pro Gay pro Atheist pro Western, just use logic and facts to back your points.

Edited by ShiaBen
Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...