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In the Name of God بسم الله
leariningabouttheshi'a

Where Any Of The 12 Imams (a.s) Mother's Black?

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(salam)

(bismillah)

I have heard that the 12th Imam's (atf) mother, Janab-e-Nargis Khatoon (sa) was a Roman Princess famous amongst the Romans for her purity, piety, etc. and who because of these attributes saw Bibi Fatima (sa) in her dream and was told of her high status and "destiny" - because of her dream and what she was told in it she disguised herself as a slave to escape her palace and was transported among other slaves across the ocean and was then "purchased"/acquired by Imam Hassan Askari (as). Before anyone asks, I dont have any textual proofs or references about this story; If someone has any please share them.

This story is mawDoo` (Fabricated). I have discussed this heavily in my blog. The story is HEAVILY weak by isnaad with a bunch of ghullah (exaggerators) / mal`oon (accursed) people. Also, This story doesn't make sense historically. I have talked about this narration on my blog. Click here.

(salam)

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imams(as) were noor of Allah..........THERE WILL BE NO NEED FOR THE SUN WHEN 12TH IMAM (as) COMES BECAUSE PEOPLE WILL BENEFIT FROM THE LIGHT OF THE IMAMS (as) FACE (HADITH OF IMAM SADIQ (as))

YA ALI MADAD!

AND OH YEAH CURSE BE UPON THE ENEMIES OF OUR IMAMS (as)!!!!!!!!!!!!

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What's wrong with being black?

why are we Muslims so racist when our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.), the Sahaba, (.ra.) and our Imams (s.a.) were not racist?

So what if some of the 12 Imams were Africans or negroid?

Please let me remind us all of the words of our Master (sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) in the Khutbatul Wida': An Arab isn't better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab isn't better than an Arab; a black man isn't better than a white man and a white man isn't better than a black

man...except in piety. (aw qamaa qaal...)

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What's wrong with being black?

why are we Muslims so racist when our beloved Prophet (s.a.w.), the Sahaba, (.ra.) and our Imams (s.a.) were not racist?

So what if some of the 12 Imams were Africans or negroid?

Please let me remind us all of the words of our Master (sal allahu alayhi wa sallam) in the Khutbatul Wida': An Arab isn't better than a non-Arab and a non-Arab isn't better than an Arab; a black man isn't better than a white man and a white man isn't better than a black

man...except in piety. (aw qamaa qaal...)

Edited by Wettanam

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Nothing is wrong with being black, but when you are black and you are in a muslim shia community (mostly Arabs Persians and south Asians in the west you get all kinds of looks.... People say they have imaan and akhlaq n taqwa but when it comes to races we all know that the community isn't the most open one lol

Consider this: this older one brother at the mosque always talk about openness and how life is about union and that God created races to get to know one another bla bla, but the same guy wouldn't let his daughter get married to this Indian guy who's shia just like him, I can only imagine if the guy was black lol :wacko:

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Yes this racism amongst Indians/Pakistanis/Persians against people of other Muslim cultures is SICK!

Having studied Farsi and Iran, and although I love the country and culture, (I am of Pakistani ethnicity),

I must say the Persians really look down upon all those who are darker skinned than them! (Maybe the religious

scholars don't but the 'average' Iranian definitely does!)

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Yes this racism amongst Indians/Pakistanis/Persians against people of other Muslim cultures is SICK!

Having studied Farsi and Iran, and although I love the country and culture, (I am of Pakistani ethnicity),

I must say the Persians really look down upon all those who are darker skinned than them! (Maybe the religious

scholars don't but the 'average' Iranian definitely does!)

Arabs are just as racist as Iranians, I can assure you - possibly even more so. The sad fact is that most communities around this blue marble we call Earth are racist and/or xenophobic.

As a white, Anglo-European man, I would gladly welcome my Imam being dark skinned ...

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On 2010-06-26 at 11:31 PM, Qa'im said:

(salam)

It is generally known that Ja'far as-Sadiq (as), the sixth Imam, was secondarily married to an African slave woman he had freed. The woman later gave birth to the seventh Imam, Musa al-Kadhim (as), making him half African. Al-Kadhim (as) also married an African slave, making his offspring three quarters African. This is where visual depictions of our Imams (as) fail; our later Imams were black.

@Qa'im is there any source to that? I'd be appreciated if you provided me with one.

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Several comments I would like to make.

The Imam (as) can look dark or white but he is still the Imam . Do not start looking for a 'whitish' Imam.

Imam Musa Kadhim (as) mother has certainly been described as African which implies Imam Musa Kadhim is half African

Imam Mahdi's mother has been described as North African which opens up the possibility of Berber origin.

Berbers vary from very dark to white but are more Caucasian features. Just adding this to the mix to illustrate that look for the attributes of the Imam not his features.

Also we have a hang up about 'princesses' and 'slaves'

Think for a moment of Western Kings or even Muslim Kings . They are normally the nastiest most vicious double dealing individual who has killed and murdered his way to the top.

Saying 'princess' means daughters of the most viscous individuals around. Hardly a recommendation for any potential mother of our Imam (as)

Edited by A true Sunni

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1 minute ago, A true Sunni said:

Several comments I would like to make.

The Imam (as) can look dark or white but he is still the Imam . Do not start looking for a 'whitish' Imam.

Imam Musa Kadhim (as) mother has certainly been described as African which implies Imam Musa Kadhim is half African

Imam Mahdi's mother has been described as North African which opens up the possibility of Berber origin.

Berbers vary from very dark to white but are more Caucasian features. Just adding this to the mix to illustrate that look for the attributes of the Imam not his features 

The imams features aren't important I know, but I'm just curious where brother Qa'im got his information from that their wives were African, so that if someone ever asks me for a source I can give it to them.

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9 minutes ago, Hassan- said:

The imams features aren't important I know, but I'm just curious where brother Qa'im got his information from that their wives were African, so that if someone ever asks me for a source I can give it to them.

I have read it as well but cannot remember the sources. Historically it is reported that Imam Musa Kadhims followers 'complained' to the Imam(as) that no family was willing to give their daughters to them in marriage because they were the Shia of Imam Musa Kadhim.(as)

Imam Musa Kadhim (as) told his followers to buy slave girls, make them Muslim, free them and marry them.

I would imagine if Imam Musa Kadhim(as) followers had problems marrying the Imam almost certainly faced the same problem.

It is also reported that none of the Imam's daughters were married. If the families were unwilling to give their daughters almost certainly they were unwilling to take a daughter as well.

Just guess work nothing else on my part 

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10 hours ago, Hassan- said:

 is there any source to that? I'd be appreciated if you provided me with one.

As for al-Kadhim's mother: in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 476, Hamida, the wife of Imam as-Sadiq and mother of Imam al-Kadhim, came with Berber traders to Medina (سيجيئ نخاس من أهل بربر).

As for ar-Rida's mother: in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 486, the mother of ar-Rida came from the furthest end of Morocco (أني اشتريتها من أقصى المغرب).

As for al-Jawad's mother: Kulayni mentions in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 492 that she was from the family of Mariya al-Qubtiyya. (وروي أنها كانت من أهل بيت مارية ام إبراهيم ابن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله.). On page 322, Imam al-Jawad is described as black coloured (حائل اللون (1))

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1 hour ago, Qa'im said:

As for al-Kadhim's mother: in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 476, Hamida, the wife of Imam as-Sadiq and mother of Imam al-Kadhim, came with Berber traders to Medina (سيجيئ نخاس من أهل بربر).

As for ar-Rida's mother: in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 486, the mother of ar-Rida came from the furthest end of Morocco (أني اشتريتها من أقصى المغرب).

As for al-Jawad's mother: Kulayni mentions in al-Kafi, Volume 1, page 492 that she was from the family of Mariya al-Qubtiyya. (وروي أنها كانت من أهل بيت مارية ام إبراهيم ابن رسول الله صلى الله عليه وآله.). On page 322, Imam al-Jawad is described as black coloured (حائل اللون (1))

Maghreb in classical Arabic can mean the following:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb

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@Qa'im as always thank you man.

18 minutes ago, E.L King said:

@Hassan- remember dear bro African does not mean black, North Africa is filled with light skinned people. 

Yeah I know, some of the imams could have been light skinned, and others dark skinned, but it doesn't really matter to me.

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3 hours ago, E.L King said:

Maghreb in classical Arabic can mean the following:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb

Yes, but it says aqsa al-maghrib, meaning the furthest [west] part of al-Maghrib, which is either Morocco or Mauritania.

As for skin colour in North Africa, it varies, but I noted a hadith where al-Jawad was called black skinned.

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7 minutes ago, Qa'im said:

Yes, but it says aqsa al-maghrib, meaning the furthest [west] part of al-Maghrib, which is either Morocco or Mauritania.

As for skin colour in North Africa, it varies, but I noted a hadith where al-Jawad was called black skinned.

The literal translation would still be Maghreb without Morrocco. It would be like translating Aqsa Amreekah to "California".

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This started off as a really good topic. It’s quiet interesting because I have never thought about what race the wife’s/ children/ imams would be. 

I hope I don’t come across as ignorant but it’s because I assumed it didn’t matter. And also because I genuinely believe that everyone is mixed in some way or another. I can’t imagine what white people have only ever been with white people or other ethnicities with their ethnicity.  Somewhere down the line I think we all have a mixed heritage. 

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On 6/27/2010 at 5:31 AM, Qa'im said:

This is where visual depictions of our Imams (as) fail; our later Imams were black.

Sayed Kamal Al Haydari might be so right or so wrong about whatever

But when he points out to benefit, why no one listen ? Do not give me a ridiculous reply or explanaition.I am sure, in all his objections there must be some valid stuff.

There must be room for advancement.

I DO NOT SAY HIS IDEAS ARE GOOD or BAD WHATSOEVER. Every subject or research deserves it investigation (or not) and I am just me  ;)


Your quote reminded me. Just like Tatbir stuff. I do not say it is haram and whatnot. But srsly. for example ; 1 doesn't care to pray whatsoever , does cut head and that of his baby in a group of people doing the same thing to themselves, blood springing everywhere and whatnot.
Or 2 why don't donate blood instead or go fight against terrorist ? still not saying tatbir is / is not haram (in all cases) but yeah. 3. image of shia in the world

4 list of Ayotollah's sayings about Tatbir ( read it) 

but yeah

IGNORANCE 

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On 3/21/2017 at 5:52 AM, Sumerian said:

The literal translation would still be Maghreb without Morrocco. It would be like translating Aqsa Amreekah to "California".

Aqsa al-Maghrib was an actual geographical location though. Yaqut al-Hamawi in his Mu'jam al-Buldan includes a town called Gharniituuf in this region, saying it's a land in Aqsa al-Maghrib, and it comes after Salé, Morocco, and after it there isn't anymore building-structures (بلد في أقصى المغرب على ساحل البحر بعد سلا وليس بعده عمارة). This land is probably just the area of the Maghreb after the Pillars of Hercules (the Strait of Gibraltar, where Morocco nearly touches Spain). It's no good speculating which Amazigh tribe was living in this area seeing as there were a number of migrations and resettlement in the last millennium. However you don't need to do much searching to find that people who lived nomadic lives in the desert were not fair skinned people.

Edited by Ibn Al-Ja'abi

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Bismehe Ta3ala,

Assalam Alikum.

Is it appropriate for Shias to use this expression, "ma sawdillia wijji."  Do not blacken my face.

This means basically do not embarrass me.  But do Arabs say this as an insult about how they don't see dark skinned people as favorable?

I would just like to know if I should be using this expression if it is appropriate or not.

It's not about being PC it's about me seeking closeness to God and not having 3sabiya in my heart, and Alhamd'Allah I do not have this trait in me.

I'm asking to make sure if this expression is appropriate to use while raising children.  Thank you.

M3 Salamah, FE AMIN Allah

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On 8/10/2018 at 3:59 AM, Laayla said:

Is it appropriate for Shias to use this expression, "ma sawdillia wijji."  Do not blacken my face.

Salam. Isn't the meaning darkened, as in the "Nur" is gone from his face because of that person's sins? If anyone thinks it is meant as a racial slur, then saying it would not be right. 

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