Where Any Of The 12 Imams (a.s) Mother's Black?

[leariningabouttheshi'a 1]

.Salam Alaikum

Im a new convert to Shi'a islam from sunnism and I was reading some of the 12 imam's mothers (r.a) where African slaves!? does that mean they were negro's? :)

Edited June 27, 2010 by leariningabouttheshi'a

[Nader Zaveri 1,365]

(salam)

(bismillah)

Im a new convert to Shi'a islam from sunnism and I was reading some of the 12 imam's mothers (r.a) where African slaves!? does that mean they were negro's? :)

I have talked about this a little bit on my blog, click here.

(salam)

[Zurarah 0]

.Salam Alaikum

Im a new convert to Shi'a islam from sunnism and I was reading some of the 12 imam's mothers (r.a) where African slaves!? does that mean they were negro's? :)

salam alaykom

brother kindly change the word negro !! this is offensive to our black brothers and sisters

the answer is : we don't know

ws

Edited June 27, 2010 by Zurarah

[Qa'im 10,689]

(salam)

It is generally known that Ja'far as-Sadiq (as), the sixth Imam, was secondarily married to an African slave woman he had freed. The woman later gave birth to the seventh Imam, Musa al-Kadhim (as), making him half African. Al-Kadhim (as) also married an African slave, making his offspring three quarters African. This is where visual depictions of our Imams (as) fail; our later Imams were black.

[Socrates 49]

(salam)

It is generally known that Ja'far as-Sadiq (as), the sixth Imam, was secondarily married to an African slave woman he had freed. The woman later gave birth to the seventh Imam, Musa al-Kadhim (as), making him half African. Al-Kadhim (as) also married an African slave, making his offspring three quarters African. This is where visual depictions of our Imams (as) fail; our later Imams were black.

I know that the mothers of Imam Ridha and Imam Jawad (as) were of African descendant (I have reservation with the word slave, but thats another topic), but do you have source for Imam Kadhim (as) mother?

[GhulameSayyeda 0]

Asalaam Alykom,

it doesnt matter if they were black, white, medium tan, darker tan, light tan, yellow, or purple with pink dots.....

Islam is not about race, it is a religion for all men regardless.......I feel terribly sorry for people who feel the need to make religion into a race war, when the same God created us all......It seems they have misunderstood this God of mine

[JimJam 207]

This is where visual depictions of our Imams (as) fail; our later Imams were black.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zTHefv17N0

Well the 313 movie shows the Mahdi to be black. They got it right

.Salam Alaikum

Im a new convert to Shi'a islam from sunnism and I was reading some of the 12 imam's mothers (r.a) where African slaves!? does that mean they were negro's? :)

Waalaikum Salam

Several of the Imams mothers were from Africa

Hamidah Khatun, mother of Imam Musa al-Kazim was a slave-girl from Berber. She is renowned for her knowledge and piety. She was called Hamidah the Pure. Imam Ja'far al-Sadiq used to send the women to learn the tenets of religion from her and used to say that "Hamidah is pure from every impurity like the ingot of pure gold."

The mother of Imam 'Ali al-Riza also was a slave-girl from Maghrib (North-West Africa). Her name was Taktum (or Najma) and she was known as Tahirah, the purified one. She was renowned for her piety and knowledge.

Imam Muhammad al-Taqi was son of Sabikah, commonly known as Khayzuran, a slave-girl from Nuba. Imam Musa al-Kazim had told Yazid bin Sabt to convey his salams to Sabikah. She is referred to in the traditions as Tayyibah.

Imam 'Ali al-Naqi's mother, Sammanah, of Maghrib, was a slave, but she was called "Sayyidah" (chief of the ladies). She had no equal in piety, and love and fear of Allah. She fasted nearly the whole year. Imam 'Ali al-Naqi told her that she was protected by Allah and was foremost amongst the mothers of siddiqin and salihin - the truthful and virtuous people.

Imam Hasan al-'Askari was also born of a slave-girl, Hudayth (or Salil). To show her high prestige among the Shi' ahs, it is enough to say that after the death of Imam Hasan al-'Askari she was the central figure of Shi'ism around whom the whole community gathered and she guided them in the best possible way. The Shi'ahs referred to her as "Jaddah", the grandmother.

Narjis Khatun, the mother of our 12th and present Imam, was a princess of the Byzantine empire. But she also had reached to Imam Hasan al-'Askari as a slave.

http://www.al-islam.org/slavery/4.htm

Edited June 27, 2010 by JimJam

[Mohammed-W 2]

Asalaam Alykom,

it doesnt matter if they were black, white, medium tan, darker tan, light tan, yellow, or purple with pink dots.....

Islam is not about race, it is a religion for all men regardless.......I feel terribly sorry for people who feel the need to make religion into a race war, when the same God created us all......It seems they have misunderstood this God of mine

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

People say what you say with best intent (i assume) however it has no place in the 'reality' and no place in 'truth'. It is not a race war to see my race and identity correctly. It is a war waged against me to lie and conceal facts concerning my race and identity.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[GhulameSayyeda 0]

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

Islam came to Prophet Muhammed (saww) the arab (who is reported to have been lighter skinned) and probably due to arabs getting inflated egos over that, Allah mixed the races, to show race DOESNT matter, not to show that is does and now They (as) are black....

we are taught not to be racist, not to be racist, all through islam.... so no, color doesnt matter, the Aimmah (as) doesnt have to have any particular color skin to give someone some kind of individual identity..... our identity is islam, not the color of our skin.....

if you want a religion that is racist and where skin color matters you will have to go make another one, this one clearly states it is for ALL mankind

Edited June 27, 2010 by GhulameSayyeda

[Mohammed-W 2]

Islam came to Prophet Muhammed (saww) the arab (who is reported to have been lighter skinned.....) and probably due to arabs getting such big heads, Allah mixed the races, to show race DOESNT matter,,,, not to show that is does and now They (as) are black....

we are taught not to be racist not to be racist all through islam.... so no, color doesnt matter, the Aimmah (as) doesnt have to have any particular color skin to give someone some kind of individual identity..... our identity is islam, not the color of our skin.....

if you want a religion that is racist and where skin color matters you will have to go make another one, this one clearly states it is for ALL mankind

(salam)

you are repeating sound bytes you have not understood anything I have said. I will not be arguing your inherently flawed, emotional, nonsense response. The OP asked a question we have the answer. you are ignorant and you do not know you are ignorant.

PEACE

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

People say what you say with best intent (i assume) however it has no place in the 'reality' and no place in 'truth'. It is not a race war to see my race and identity correctly. It is a war waged against me to lie and conceal facts concerning my race and identity.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[GhulameSayyeda 0]

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

People say what you say with best intent (i assume) however it has no place in the 'reality' and no place in 'truth'. It is not a race war to see my race and identity correctly. It is a war waged against me to lie and conceal facts concerning my race and identity.

because you edited.... i would like to say something about your edit

YOU DO NOT WORSHIP THE SAME GOD I DO if you think that NOT being racist is waging a war and makes me a kafir

your a racist, and race has no place in our religion, we should never see in color, but only see the hearts of another man, you have not understood my God

I tell you what

ILL LEAVE THIS GODDAMN RELIGION OF YOURS

ITS NO PROBLEM

im not black and this is a black religion right

im out then

i dont follow the same religion as people like you

you can keep this bull[Edited Out]

[Mohammed-W 2]

because you edited.... i would like to say something about your edit

YOU DO NOT WORSHIP THE SAME GOD I DO if you think that NOT being racist is waging a war and makes me a kafir

your a racist, and race has no place in our religion, we should never see in color, but only see the hearts of another man, you have not understood my God

I tell you what

ILL LEAVE THIS GODDAMN RELIGION OF YOURS

ITS NO PROBLEM

im not black and this is a black religion right

im out then

i dont follow the same religion as people like you

you can keep this bull[Edited Out]

(salam)

calm down you dont know what you are talking about. 'seeing in colour' as you put it has nothing to do with concealing facts. concealing and covering the truth is kufr. Would you conceal the truth of any matter knowingly? you advocate concealing the truth to eliminate racism you have serious flaw in your reasoning.

calm down seriously this is my last response to your absurdity.

PEACE

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

People say what you say with best intent (i assume) however it has no place in the 'reality' and no place in 'truth'. It is not a race war to see my race and identity correctly. It is a war waged against me to lie and conceal facts concerning my race and identity.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[JimJam 207]

No one should be racist

Imam Ali (as) has said

“....Resentment is of four branches: arrogance, boastfulness,

egoistic, and racism. Whoever is arrogant turns his back to the

truth. Whoever is boastful indulges in sins. Whoever is egoistic

persists in sins. Whoever comes in the clench of racism commits

injustice......

Al-Kafi H 2852, CH 163, h 1

“Once, Ali ibn al-Husayn, recipient of divine supreme covenant,

was asked about racist feelings. He said, ‘The racist feeling that

is a sin is the one that makes a person call the evil doers of his

own people better than the virtuous individuals of the other

people. A man’s loving his own people is not racism but it is a

sin to help one’s own people to commit injustice.”

Al-Kafi H 2547, CH 119, h 7

Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) has said

“On the Day of Judgment Allah will join those who practice

racial discrimination with a race in fire.”

Al-Kafi H 2544, CH 119, h 4

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever has racist feelings

in his heart of the size of mustard seed, on the Day of Judgment

Allah will raise him with the Arabs of the time of Jahiliyah

(dark age).’”

Al-Kafi H 2543, CH 119, h 3

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever practices racial

discrimination or it is practiced for him has removed the collar

of belief from his neck.’”

Al-Kafi H 2542, CH 119, h 2

[leariningabouttheshi'a 1]

salam alaykom

brother kindly change the word negro !! this is offensive to our black brothers and sisters

the answer is : we don't know

ws

Brother negro is not an offensive term it is a scientific and correct label for people of indigenous southern and western african decent. "black" is a misnomer race is not determined by colour of skin but skeletal structure.

[Nader Zaveri 1,365]

(salam)

(bismillah)

Narjis Khatun, the mother of our 12th and present Imam, was a princess of the Byzantine empire. But she also had reached to Imam Hasan al-'Askari as a slave.

This is wrong brother. The narration is wrong by the sanad and historically.

I have talked about this specific story on my blog, click here.

(salam)

[Mohammed-W 2]

No one should be racist

Imam Ali (as) has said

“....Resentment is of four branches: arrogance, boastfulness,

egoistic, and racism. Whoever is arrogant turns his back to the

truth. Whoever is boastful indulges in sins. Whoever is egoistic

persists in sins. Whoever comes in the clench of racism commits

injustice......

Al-Kafi H 2852, CH 163, h 1

“Once, Ali ibn al-Husayn, recipient of divine supreme covenant,

was asked about racist feelings. He said, ‘The racist feeling that

is a sin is the one that makes a person call the evil doers of his

own people better than the virtuous individuals of the other

people. A man’s loving his own people is not racism but it is a

sin to help one’s own people to commit injustice.”

Al-Kafi H 2547, CH 119, h 7

Imam Jafar Sadiq (as) has said

“On the Day of Judgment Allah will join those who practice

racial discrimination with a race in fire.”

Al-Kafi H 2544, CH 119, h 4

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever has racist feelings

in his heart of the size of mustard seed, on the Day of Judgment

Allah will raise him with the Arabs of the time of Jahiliyah

(dark age).’”

Al-Kafi H 2543, CH 119, h 3

“The Messenger of Allah has said, ‘Whoever practices racial

discrimination or it is practiced for him has removed the collar

of belief from his neck.’”

Al-Kafi H 2542, CH 119, h 2

(salam)

an over emotional self claimed 'non racist' cannot handle the colour of the Imams (SA) and their mothers skin..... threatens to leave if black people ever find it out!!

sickening, boring, twofaced, yada yada yada. we all know people shouldnt be racist. :dry: throwing words in my direction? I hope not.... I believe you have more sense than that. Would knowing that some africans were ahl ul bayt make me a racist? anyone reaching this conclusion is pretty messed up I need not say any more...need I? Surely not!

(salam)

actually it does matter to the descendants of slavery in the west who have no identity and are expected to idolize every other race. Where islam is equated with everyone except their people, where they are treated as subordinate both by the west and muslims. The truth always matters hiding and covering the truth will always be and is the meaning of kufr.

People say what you say with best intent (i assume) however it has no place in the 'reality' and no place in 'truth'. It is not a race war to see my race and identity correctly. It is a war waged against me to lie and conceal facts concerning my race and identity.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[JimJam 207]

(salam)

(bismillah)

This is wrong brother. The narration is wrong by the sanad and historically.

I have talked about this specific story on my blog, click here.

(salam)

Well it always struck me that a princess of a strong empire should be taken as a slave.Unlike the Sassinid empire, Byzantium outlasted both the Ummayads and the Abbasids. It is more logical to think The mother of the Mahdi (as) was taken as a slave by the Byzantines and sold forward to the Abbasid Empire.

But still, it is information and there isnt any other alternative information out there. You may classify the narration as Dheef but now you have nothing to go on.

an over emotional self claimed 'non racist' cannot handle the colour of the Imams (SA) and their mothers skin..... threatens to leave if black people ever find it out!!

sickening, boring, twofaced, yada yada yada. we all know people shouldnt be racist. :dry: throwing words in my direction? I hope not.... I believe you have more sense than that. Would knowing that some africans were ahl ul bayt make me a racist? anyone reaching this conclusion is pretty messed up I need not say any more...need I? Surely not!

I think people are just being too emotional on both sides. That half of the 12 imams were of African descent is a fact. Facts are facts.

Edited June 27, 2010 by JimJam

[MFAHH 73]

Even if Bibi Nargis was the princess of the Byzantine empire, then it doesn't really have any effect, whatsoever, on the noble lineage of the Imam.

[Nader Zaveri 1,365]

(salam)

(bismillah)

But still, it is information and there isnt any other alternative information out there. You may classify the narration as Dheef but now you have nothing to go on.

If all narrations concerning a historical event is da'eef. Which rthis specific story is HIGHLY da'eef as if you've read my article you should NEVER take this. The best thing is say "Allaahu A'lim" and don't make a judgment.

(salam)

Edited June 27, 2010 by Nader Zaveri

[Mohammed-W 2]

I think people are just being too emotional on both sides. That half of the 12 imams were of African descent is a fact. Facts are facts.

(salam)

lol^^ now we have 'sides' people shouldnt throw their words around so freely their judgements are falling right on their heads...if the cap fits eh?...sides LOL :lol:

[Nader Zaveri 1,365]

(salam)

(bismillah)

Im a new convert to Shi'a islam from sunnism and I was reading some of the 12 imam's mothers (r.a) where African slaves!? does that mean they were negro's? :)

Sorry, forgive my lack of manners. I just want to give you a warm welcome to Shee'ah Islaam and to Shiachat.com.

(salam)

[Socrates 49]

(salam)

(bismillah)

If all narrations concerning a historical event is da'eef. Which rthis specific story is HIGHLY da'eef as if you've read my article you should NEVER take this. The best thing is say "Allaahu A'lim" and don't make a judgment.

(salam)

Luckily most of us are not rijalis.

What you're effectively saying is that all the ulema of the past who have mentioned this incident are wrong and you are right. Since it is not a matter of aqeedah as to where the mother of an Imam came from, why are you so keen on proving it one way or another?

[Gypsy 3,157]

(salam)

Why do we care someone’s skin color? Religiousness/your Eman is not defined/based on your skin color. I am glad the Imams were marrying women from other tribes and cultures, among the free women and slaves.

Anyway, I know a number of women who are of Berber ancestry from Tunisia and Algeria. They do have quite an interesting culture and heritage. Here is a picture of a Berber girl (presumably from Tunisia, courtesy of wikipedia).

I think marrying into different culture is healthy because it will enrich your own culture and have more appreciation of someone else’s culture.

[GhulameSayyeda 0]

salaam

Bismillah

Since I have been on shiachat, I have seen people accuse some of the greatest scholars in history of kufar and ghaali, qiyas and ray.... I have seen them do anything in their power through rijal using this in a manner no scholar uses it, so that they can dismiss and get people to not believe all the ahadith that speak of the Masumeen (as) more highly than your next door neighbor..... i have seen many things since coming to this site not too long ago, but this took the cake, now if im not black and not a racist then I cannot be a shia.... something is so wrong with you people.... you have destroyed my religion, and lied about my God...

may God show some measure of mercy on you all.... because I wouldnt

I really wont be visiting this forum again, I will have nothing to do more with any of you people, you all sicken me

Edited June 27, 2010 by GhulameSayyeda

[JimJam 207]

(salam)

lol^^ now we have 'sides' people shouldnt throw their words around so freely their judgements are falling right on their heads...if the cap fits eh?...sides LOL :lol:

Sir, I request you to remain calm

Edited June 27, 2010 by JimJam

[Mohammed-W 2]

Sir, I request you to remain calm

okayys massa.....please, dont shot mi massa.... izza stay right here and just wet ma'self outta fear massa....*some time later* ....I swears i got nuthin...please dont search mi inteeeernallee. :dry:

yeah sho nuff them negros always excited bout su'em huh? :dry:

i knows yall expecting me ta entertain.... ya praaaddin and pokin mi... like ize some kinda negro fool. :D

this case less is more jim jam, less is more.... :dry:

BTW PEACE!

Edited June 27, 2010 by Mohammed-W

[ShiaBen 948]

Divine leaders can be of any color or origins. But the thing is, even if they were Blacks, not a big deal, we're all human after all. Not sure if any of these Imams had African ancestry or not, if that's what you are implying.

[DoubleAgent4 1,493]

There is a hadith that says that Imam Reza(as) was so dark that when he went to somewhere , I don't know where, they though he was a slave. About Imam Zamans mother I've heard two versions . I've heard that she was a Roman Princess and somewhere else I heard that she was African.

[Haydar Husayn 9,669]

Asalaam Alykom,

it doesnt matter if they were black, white, medium tan, darker tan, light tan, yellow, or purple with pink dots.....

Islam is not about race, it is a religion for all men regardless.......I feel terribly sorry for people who feel the need to make religion into a race war, when the same God created us all......It seems they have misunderstood this God of mine

Does that mean that if someone makes a picture of the 12 Imams(as) and represents them all as white or chinese, then you are fine with that?

I don't think anyone should use the possbile race or colour of the Imams(as) for any kind of 'race war' purposes, of course not. However, I don't think such information should be suppressed either. Considering the racism that exists within some of our communities, I think it would be good for people to be more aware of the diverse origins of our Imams(as). It is also a good lesson for those who think that racial or cultural purity is something important(for example in relation to marriage).

[Socrates 49]

Does that mean that if someone makes a picture of the 12 Imams(as) and represents them all as white or chinese, then you are fine with that?

They shouldn't be making pictures of the Imams (as) in the first place because no visual expression can depict their reality.

[Salawat 1]

Banu Hashim were known for their dark complexion, specially Ali b. Abu talib, ibn Abbas, Al-Hasan and al-Husein. Non hashimites who were also of dark complexion included Sa'd b. Abi waqqas and Umar b. Alkhattab

[Haydar Husayn 9,669]

They shouldn't be making pictures of the Imams (as) in the first place because no visual expression can depict their reality.

Personally I would agree with you, but I think these pictures have been allowed by most scholars haven't they? I'm not aware of any fatwas forbidding them.

[Panzerwaffe 989]

Banu Hashim were known for their dark complexion, specially Ali b. Abu talib, ibn Abbas, Al-Hasan and al-Husein. Non hashimites who were also of dark complexion included Sa'd b. Abi waqqas and Umar b. Alkhattab

I though abu bakr and umar were of fair complexion

[Hadrat Ali 1]

No way banu hashim were dark complextion thats impossible they were not for being illuminated and as white as the moon like Hazrat Abbas and he was reffered to as the oon of the hashims meanng all of them were light skinned and white.

[AliQalandari110 0]

There is a hadith that says that Imam Reza(as) was so dark that when he went to somewhere , I don't know where, they though he was a slave. About Imam Zamans mother I've heard two versions . I've heard that she was a Roman Princess and somewhere else I heard that she was African.

I have heard that the 12th Imam's (atf) mother, Janab-e-Nargis Khatoon (sa) was a Roman Princess famous amongst the Romans for her purity, piety, etc. and who because of these attributes saw Bibi Fatima (sa) in her dream and was told of her high status and "destiny" - because of her dream and what she was told in it she disguised herself as a slave to escape her palace and was transported among other slaves across the ocean and was then "purchased"/acquired by Imam Hassan Askari (as). Before anyone asks, I dont have any textual proofs or references about this story; If someone has any please share them.