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In the Name of God بسم الله

The Imams (as) On The Companions (ra)

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Can some of the Shi'ite brothers and sisters please post narrations attributed to the Imams (as) in which they (as) give their opinions on the Companions (ra), particularly those that the contemporary Shi'ites do not like? (I don't necessarily care about the grading. I just don't want anything that's fabricated.)

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Can some of the Shi'ite brothers and sisters please post narrations attributed to the Imams (as) in which they (as) give their opinions on the Companions (ra), particularly those that the contemporary Shi'ites do not like? (I don't necessarily care about the grading. I just don't want anything that's fabricated.)

Imam Ali (as) thought both Abu Bakr and Umar to be to be liars, sinful, treacherous and dishonest.

Sahih Muslim, Book 019, Number 4349:

It is reported by Zuhri that this tradition was narrated to him by Malik b. Aus who said: Umar b. al-Khattab sent for me and I came to him when the day had advanced. I found him in his house sitting on his bare bed-stead, reclining on a leather pillow. He said (to me): Malik, some people of your tribe have hastened to me (with a request for help). I have ordered a little money for them. Take it and distribute it among them. I said: I wish you had ordered somebody else to do this job. He said: Malik, take it (and do what you have been told). At this moment (his man-servant) Yarfa' came in and said: Commander of the Faithful, what do you say about Uthman, Abd al-Rabman b. 'Auf, Zubair and Sa'd (who have come to seek an audience with you)? He said: Yes, and permitted them. so they entered. Then he (Yarfa') came again and said: What do you say about 'Ali and Abbas (who are present at the door)? He said: Yes, and permitted them to enter. Abbas said: Commander of the Faithful, decide (the dispute) between me and this sinful, treacherous, dishonest liar. The people (who were present) also said: Yes. Commander of the Faithful, do decide (the dispute) and have mercy on them. Malik b. Aus said: I could well imagine that they had sent them in advance for this purpose (by 'Ali and Abbas). 'Umar said: Wait and be patient. I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We (prophets) do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They said: Yes. Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes. (Then) Umar said: Allah, the Glorious and Exalted, had done to His Messenger (may peace be upon him) a special favour that He has not done to anyone else except him. He quoted the Qur'anic verse:" What Allah has bestowed upon His Apostle from (the properties) of the people of township is for Allah and His Messenger". The narrator said: I do not know whether he also recited the previous verse or not. Umar continued: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) distrbuted among you the properties abandoned by Banu Nadir. By Allah, he never preferred himself over you and never appropriated anything to your exclusion. (After a fair distribution in this way) this property was left over.

The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) would meet from its income his annual expenditure, and what remained would be deposited in the Bait-ul-Mal. (Continuing further) he said: I adjure you by Allah by Whose order the heavens and the earth are sustained. Do you know this? They said: Yes. Then he adjured Abbas and 'All as he had adjured the other persons and asked: Do you both know this? They said: Yes. He said: When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) passed away, Abu Bakr said:" I am the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)." Both of you came to demand your shares from the property (left behind by the Messenger of Allah). (Referring to Hadrat 'Abbas), he said: You demanded your share from the property of your nephew, and he (referring to 'Ali) demanded a share on behalf of his wife from the property of her father. Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) had said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity." So both of you thought him to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that he was true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. When Abu Bakr passed away and (I have become) the successor of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and Abu Bakr (Allah be pleased with him), you thought me to be a liar, sinful, treacherous and dishonest. And Allah knows that I am true, virtuous, well-guided and a follower of truth. I became the guardian of this property. Then you as well as he came to me. Both of you have come and your purpose is identical. You said: Entrust the property to us. I said: If you wish that I should entrust it to you, it will be on the condition that both of you will undertake to abide by a pledge made with Allah that you will use it in the same way as the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) used it. So both of you got it. He said: Wasn't it like this? They said: Yes. He said: Then you have (again) come to me with the request that I should adjudge between you. No, by Allah. I will not give any other judgment except this until the arrival of the Doomsday. If you are unable to hold the property on this condition, return it to me.

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Al-Nawawi has a good explanation of the hadith as to why Omar (raa) said those things.

ÞóÇáó ÇáúãóÇÒöÑöíøõ : æóßóÐóáößó Þóæúá ÚõãóÑ - ÑóÖöíó Çááøóå Úóäúåõ - : ÅöäøóßõãóÇ ÌöÆúÊõãóÇ ÃóÈóÇ ÈóßúÑ ÝóÑóÃóíúÊõãóÇåõ ßóÇÐöÈðÇ ÂËöãðÇ ÛóÇÏöÑðÇ ÎóÇÆöäðÇ ¡ æóßóÐóáößó ÐóßóÑó Úóäú äóÝúÓå ÃóäøóåõãóÇ ÑóÃóíóÇåõ ßóÐóáößó ¡ æóÊóÃúæöíá åóÐóÇ Úóáóì äóÍúæ ãóÇ ÓóÈóÞó æóåõæó Ãóäøó ÇáúãõÑóÇÏ ÃóäøóßõãóÇ ÊóÚúÊóÞöÏóÇäö Ãóäøó ÇáúæóÇÌöÈ Ãóäú äóÝúÚóá Ýöí åóÐöåö ÇáúÞóÖöíøóÉ ÎöáóÇÝ ãóÇ ÝóÚóáúÊå ÃóäóÇ æóÃóÈõæ ÈóßúÑ ¡ ÝóäóÍúäõ Úóáóì ãõÞúÊóÖóì ÑóÃúíßõãóÇ áóæú ÃóÊóíúäóÇ ãóÇ ÃóÊóíúäóÇ æóäóÍúäõ ãõÚúÊóÞöÏóÇäö ãóÇ ÊóÚúÊóÞöÏóÇäöåö áóßöäøóÇ ÈöåóÐöåö ÇáúÃóæúÕóÇÝ ¡ Ãóäú íóßõæä ãóÚúäóÇåõ : Ãóäøó ÇáúÅöãóÇã ÅöäøóãóÇ íõÎóÇáöÝ ÅöÐóÇ ßóÇäó Úóáóì åóÐöåö ÇáúÃóæúÕóÇÝ æóíõÊøóåóã Ýöí ÞóÖóÇíóÇåõ ÝóßóÇäó ãõÎóÇáóÝóÊßõãóÇ áóäóÇ ÊõÔúÚöÑ ãóäú ÑóÂåóÇ Ãóäøóßõãú ÊóÚúÊóÞöÏóÇäö Ðóáößó ÝöíäóÇ . æóÇóááøóå ÃóÚúáóã .

He also has a good explanation about why Al-Abbas said those things to Ali.

Shias shouldn't use this hadith to show the views of Ali towards the Shaikhaan for a couple of reasons:

1- Ali and Al-Abbas go to Omar for justice, which implies that they view him as a just ruler.

2- Ali and Al-Abbas both admit that the prophets don't leave their belongings to be inherited.

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Al-Nawawi has a good explanation of the hadith as to why Omar (raa) said those things.

قَالَ الْمَازِرِيُّ : وَكَذَلِكَ قَوْل عُمَر - رَضِيَ اللَّه عَنْهُ - : إِنَّكُمَا جِئْتُمَا أَبَا بَكْر فَرَأَيْتُمَاهُ كَاذِبًا آثِمًا غَادِرًا خَائِنًا ، وَكَذَلِكَ ذَكَرَ عَنْ نَفْسه أَنَّهُمَا رَأَيَاهُ كَذَلِكَ ، وَتَأْوِيل هَذَا عَلَى نَحْو مَا سَبَقَ وَهُوَ أَنَّ الْمُرَاد أَنَّكُمَا تَعْتَقِدَانِ أَنَّ الْوَاجِب أَنْ نَفْعَل فِي هَذِهِ الْقَضِيَّة خِلَاف مَا فَعَلْته أَنَا وَأَبُو بَكْر ، فَنَحْنُ عَلَى مُقْتَضَى رَأْيكُمَا لَوْ أَتَيْنَا مَا أَتَيْنَا وَنَحْنُ مُعْتَقِدَانِ مَا تَعْتَقِدَانِهِ لَكِنَّا بِهَذِهِ الْأَوْصَاف ، أَنْ يَكُون مَعْنَاهُ : أَنَّ الْإِمَام إِنَّمَا يُخَالِف إِذَا كَانَ عَلَى هَذِهِ الْأَوْصَاف وَيُتَّهَم فِي قَضَايَاهُ فَكَانَ مُخَالَفَتكُمَا لَنَا تُشْعِر مَنْ رَآهَا أَنَّكُمْ تَعْتَقِدَانِ ذَلِكَ فِينَا . وَاَللَّه أَعْلَم .

He also has a good explanation about why Al-Abbas said those things to Ali.

Shias shouldn't use this hadith to show the views of Ali towards the Shaikhaan for a couple of reasons:

1- Ali and Al-Abbas go to Omar for justice, which implies that they view him as a just ruler.

2- Ali and Al-Abbas both admit that the prophets don't leave their belongings to be inherited.

Where does the hadith say they admitted his justice about prophets don't leave their belongings to be inherited.?

Does not the Quran say prophets sons inherited from their fathers?

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1- Ali and Al-Abbas go to Omar for justice, which implies that they view him as a just ruler.

Lol.

How about the fabricated hadith that "Prophethood and Caliphate can not both exist in the clan of Banu Hashim"? Hadith fabricatoion, it was like the eid moon sightings in Peshawar. If they want Eid the next day in Peshawar, all it takes is two liars to swear that they saw the moon, which they never did of course. Similarly, they fabricated a great number of hadiths right since the beginning. Abu Dharr Al-Ghifari (ra) was murdered by being banished to a deadly desert where he and his family was starved to death because he protested to such fabrications and alterations in the religion by the three sheikhs. And this is the same man for whom the Prophet (pbuh) said: "O Abu Dharr, there is no truth speaker like yourself from among my people under this sky". When Abdur Rehman bin Auf appointed Uthman as the third king, it was only because Ali (as) refused to continue the alterations made by the Sheikhein (seeratul sheikhein) and nothing but God's religion, while Uthman accepted to continue the alterations (seeratul sheikhein). Thats well documented in history books. The sheikhein altered the religion as much as they could, being kings. The "wal jama'a" part in the sect's name "ahlul sunnah wal jama'a" obliges you to follow the seerat of the sheikhein, or the "aslaaf" (ancestors). Did the Prophet (pbuh) follow "aslaaf"? Nope. Was the Prophet (pbuh) a "ahl al-hadeeth"? Nope. Nothing but the Prophet's way is acceptable to Allah, as the Almighty has explicitly told us in the Quran.

2- Ali and Al-Abbas both admit that the prophets don't leave their belongings to be inherited.

Heh, I feel like I sound like a broken record each time I tell you that you're a chronic liar, Abu Abdullah As-Salafi. I shouldn't blame you though, since you admit that winning arguments is what matters to you, not truth, and the funny thing is that even then you keep failing. Here is an answer from Quran and hadith to that fabricated argument that prophets leave no inheritance: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/chap7.php

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Where does the hadith say they admitted his justice about prophets don't leave their belongings to be inherited.?

Zakzaki, from the hadith you quoted:

Then he turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said: I adjure you both by Allah by Whose order the heavens and earth are sustained, don't you know that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said:" We do not have any heirs; what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity"? They (too) said: Yes.
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Lord Bota, do not get banned by blaming the Shias uneccessarily. We are waiting for your Abu Hurraira fabrications reply.

It is strange that you have considered previously the hadith of 2 weighty things as Ahlebaith (as) and Quran more authentic than the hadith of Quran and sunna, still why you consider Abu bakr and Umar more truthful when the following prove they are liars.

1. Quran.

2. Ahlebaith i.e. Fatima (as), Ali (as) Hasan (as), Hussain (as) and according you uncle of Prophet, Abbas also is considered as Ahlebaith.

and you have failed to reply the second question

Does not the Quran say prophets sons inherited from their fathers?

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Lord Bota, do not get banned by blaming the Shias uneccessarily.

I'm not blaming the Shias at all. I just said that if you are going to use the hadith in Saheeh Muslim to demonstrate that Ali believed that shaikhain are liars, then you should also accept that Ali accepts the hadith of inheritance. You cannot just accept half the hadith because it suits you.

See your BIG LIE. The hadiths say that he (Umar) turned to Abbas and 'Ali and said .........

Didn't Ali and Al-Abbas both say, "Yes"?

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I'm not blaming the Shias at all. I just said that if you are going to use the hadith in Saheeh Muslim to demonstrate that Ali believed that shaikhain are liars, then you should also accept that Ali accepts the hadith of inheritance. You cannot just accept half the hadith because it suits you.

Didn't Ali and Al-Abbas both say, "Yes"?

Yes why not accept the part of hadith which suits the Quran i.e. Prophets sons inherited from their fathers and reject the other half which is contradicting the Quran?

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^ This has been discussed several times. You can use the search feature or start a new thread if you'd like.

When it comes to quran who is speaking truth, another thread?

This is enough for me both Quran and Ahlebaith agree that Abu Bakr and Umar were liars by bringing false hadiths.

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(salam)

Zakzaki, from the hadith you quoted:

We don't disagree with that hadith, we disagree with its interpretation. Abu Bakr misunderstood the context of that hadith, and the full version can be found in Shi'i sources, narrated by the sixth Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (as). The Prophet, as a Muslim and a father, is obliged to give inheritance to his daughter. The narration is in reference to the purpose of the Prophet - the people inherit knowledge from him, not dinars. He's not sent to make his family and companions rich, but rather he was sent by Allah for his companions to inherit the knowledge of Islam. A lot of Salafi sites make a fuss about how this hadith is mentioned in our sources, and yet still misunderstand the perspective the Imam (as) was speaking from, despite their presentation of the full hadith.

Actual familial inheritance is scattered throughout the Qur'an and Sunnah, but of course, you may interpret those differently. But, when A'isha used the holy cloak of the Prophet (pbuh) to heal the sick, and when she ate the remaining barley after the Prophet's death, was she usurping the inheritance of the Prophet (pbuh)? By our interpretation, no she is not. What about the ahadith on Dabbatul Ardh using the stick of Musa (as) and ring of Sulaiman (as)?

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Can some of the Shi'ite brothers and sisters please post narrations attributed to the Imams (as) in which they (as) give their opinions on the Companions (ra), particularly those that the contemporary Shi'ites do not like? (I don't necessarily care about the grading. I just don't want anything that's fabricated.)

which ones in particular ? I dont think individual narrations can be taken as to represent or rather misrepresent theological arguments.

Also narrations considered authentic by whom 12ers or sunnis ?

its clear to anyone who reads history of that time objectively that certain famous noble companions ( inc ali and abu bakr) had their own friends and followers.Just like normal people they liked or disliked certain others. Now to blow their differences out of all proportion ( like 12ers do) or ignore them altogather ( like sunnis do) does not do justice to them.

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Let me add a qualifier to my previous request. I don't want any hadith from Sunni books. Give me hadith from shi'a books and the interpretation as well (if you'd like). It was a simple request...I thought it was understood that I didn't want anything from Sunni books.

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Sunnis should start reading their hadith books a bit more... the book ' Then I was guided' by Muhammad al-Tijani al-Samawi is a great book and he even refers to Sunni hadiths regarding Abu Bakr and the so called faithful companions.

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(bismillah)

(salam)

Give me hadith from shi'a books and the interpretation as well (if you'd like).

You aren't going to get much of a response because most Shias don't read their own books of hadith lol

We have a couple of hadiths praising the first two, and many more hadiths criticizing them (without really mentioning their names) and other hadiths cursing them either directly or indirectly.

As for their authenticity, the middle category seems to be the strongest (criticizing them)

was salam

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Here is what I find on the salafi sites.

The Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi wa aalihi Wasallam), came to a person from the Ansaar and asked him if he had any food. The Ansaari said he had and slaughtered a goat. The man then grilled some meat and presented it to the Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi wa aalihi Wasallam) who wished that Ali, Fathima, Hasan and Hussain were present with him. Then Abu Bakr and Omar arrived. Ali also arrived shortly after. Allah then revealed the verse:

'We have never sent any messenger prophet or Muhaddath before except that when ever they desired something, the devil interfered in their desire.' (The Prophet then said) This is just as the devil has sent his two agents here right now (Abu Bakr and Omar). (The footnotes of Maqbool's translation: Surah Hajj: 674)

Mullah Baqir quotes Imam Zainul Abideen:

A person asked the Imam about Abu Bakr and Omar.

The Imam replied: "I have been informed that they were both non-believers and any one who befriends them (by thinking they are good) are also non-believers." (Maqbool: 2:522)

The same author quotes Imam Ali-ul-Naqi:

Imam Ali-ul-Naqi was asked about identifying the Nasibi group (those who prefer Abu Bakr and Omar over Ali): whether it was sufficient to know that they (the Nasibis) preferred Abu Bakr and Omar over Ali and that they held the Imamate of Abu Bakr and Omar in good standing. T'he Imam replied that whoever believed this was a Nasibi. (Ibid: 521)

Also you can refer to the famous Imami prayer Ziyarath al Asharaa.

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Mind quoting the full version?

One big difference is that in Shi'a version, the part 'what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity' is not there.

ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ ÇáúÍóÓóäö æó Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ãõÍóãøóÏò Úóäú Óóåúáö Èúäö ÒöíóÇÏò æó ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ íóÍúíóì Úóäú ÃóÍúãóÏó Èúäö ãõÍóãøóÏò ÌóãöíÚÇð Úóäú ÌóÚúÝóÑö Èúäö ãõÍóãøóÏò ÇáúÃóÔúÚóÑöíøö Úóäú ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö Èúäö ãóíúãõæäò ÇáúÞóÏøóÇÍö æó Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ÅöÈúÑóÇåöíãó Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö Úóäú ÍóãøóÇÏö Èúäö ÚöíÓóì Úóäö ÇáúÞóÏøóÇÍö Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó ÞóÇáó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ãóäú Óóáóßó ØóÑöíÞÇð íóØúáõÈõ Ýöíåö ÚöáúãÇð Óóáóßó Çááøóåõ Èöåö ØóÑöíÞÇð Åöáóì ÇáúÌóäøóÉö æó Åöäøó ÇáúãóáóÇÆößóÉó áóÊóÖóÚõ ÃóÌúäöÍóÊóåóÇ áöØóÇáöÈö ÇáúÚöáúãö ÑöÖðÇ Èöåö æó Åöäøóåõ íóÓúÊóÛúÝöÑõ áöØóÇáöÈö ÇáúÚöáúãö ãóäú Ýöí ÇáÓøóãóÇÁö æó ãóäú Ýöí ÇáúÃóÑúÖö ÍóÊøóì ÇáúÍõæÊö Ýöí ÇáúÈóÍúÑö æó ÝóÖúáõ ÇáúÚóÇáöãö Úóáóì ÇáúÚóÇÈöÏö ßóÝóÖúáö ÇáúÞóãóÑö Úóáóì ÓóÇÆöÑö ÇáäøõÌõæãö áóíúáóÉó ÇáúÈóÏúÑö æó Åöäøó ÇáúÚõáóãóÇÁó æóÑóËóÉõ ÇáúÃóäúÈöíóÇÁö Åöäøó ÇáúÃóäúÈöíóÇÁó áóãú íõæóÑøöËõæÇ ÏöíäóÇÑÇð æó áóÇ ÏöÑúåóãÇð æó áóßöäú æóÑøóËõæÇ ÇáúÚöáúãó Ýóãóäú ÃóÎóÐó ãöäúåõ ÃóÎóÐó ÈöÍóÙøò æóÇÝöÑò

áå ÓäÏÇä ÇáÃæá ãÌåæá æÇáËÇäí ãæËÞ ÍÓä Ãæ ãæËÞ áÇ íÞÕÑÇä Úä ÇáÕÍíÍ

w/s

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(bismillah)

(salam)

You aren't going to get much of a response because most Shias don't read their own books of hadith lol

We have a couple of hadiths praising the first two, and many more hadiths criticizing them (without really mentioning their names) and other hadiths cursing them either directly or indirectly.

As for their authenticity, the middle category seems to be the strongest (criticizing them)

was salam

Can you post the hadith in the first category and some from the second category? I'll go on the assumption that the third category is filled with fabrications because the Imams (as) did not curse often and particularly by name.

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Let me add a qualifier to my previous request. I don't want any hadith from Sunni books. Give me hadith from shi'a books and the interpretation as well (if you'd like). It was a simple request...I thought it was understood that I didn't want anything from Sunni books.

Here it is from Nahjul Balagha from imam Ali (as), with the names of the first three caliphs:

Beware! By Allah the son of Abu Quhafah (Abu Bakr)(2) dressed himself with it (the caliphate) and he certainly knew that my position in relation to it was the same as the position of the axis in relation to the hand-mill. The flood water flows down from me and the bird cannot fly upto me. I put a curtain against the caliphate and kept myself detached from it.

Then I began to think whether I should assault or endure calmly the blinding darkness of tribulations wherein the grown up are made feeble and the young grow old and the true believer acts under strain till he meets Allah (on his death). I found that endurance thereon was wiser. So I adopted patience although there was [Edited Out]ing in the eye and suffocation (of mortification) in the throat. I watched the plundering of my inheritance till the first one went his way but handed over the Caliphate to Ibn al-Khattab after himself.

(Then he quoted al-A`sha's verse).

My days are now passed on the camel's back (in difficulty) while there were days (of ease) when I enjoyed the company of Jabir's brother Hayyan.(3)

It is strange that during his lifetime he wished to be released from the caliphate but he confirmed it for the other one after his death. No doubt these two shared its udders strictly among themselves. This one put the Caliphate in a tough enclosure where the utterance was haughty and the touch was rough. Mistakes were in plenty and so also the excuses therefore. One in contact with it was like the rider of an unruly camel. If he pulled up its rein the very nostril would be slit, but if he let it loose he would be thrown. Consequently, by Allah people got involved in recklessness, wickedness, unsteadiness and deviation.

Nevertheless, I remained patient despite length of period and stiffness of trial, till when he went his way (of death) he put the matter (of Caliphate) in a group(4) and regarded me to be one of them. But good Heavens! what had I to do with this "consultation"? Where was any doubt about me with regard to the first of them that I was now considered akin to these ones? But I remained low when they were low and flew high when they flew high. One of them turned against me because of his hatred and the other got inclined the other way due to his in-law relationship and this thing and that thing, till the third man of these people stood up with heaving breasts between his dung and fodder. With him his children of his grand-father, (Umayyah) also stood up swallowing up Allah's wealth(5) like a camel devouring the foliage of spring, till his rope broke down, his actions finished him and his gluttony brought him down prostrate.

At that moment, nothing took me by surprise, but the crowd of people rushing to me. It advanced towards me from every side like the mane of the hyena so much so that Hasan and Husayn were getting crushed and both the ends of my shoulder garment were torn. They collected around me like the herd of sheep and goats. When I took up the reins of government one party broke away and another turned disobedient while the rest began acting wrongfully as if they had not heard the word of Allah saying:

That abode in the hereafter, We assign it for those who intend not to exult themselves in the earth, nor (to make) mischief (therein); and the end is (best) for the pious ones. (Qur'an, 28:83)

Yes, by Allah, they had heard it and understood it but the world appeared glittering in their eyes and its embellishments seduced them. Behold, by Him who split the grain (to grow) and created living beings, if people had not come to me and supporters had not exhausted the argument and if there had been no pledge of Allah with the learned to the effect that they should not acquiesce in the gluttony of the oppressor and the hunger of the oppressed I would have cast the rope of Caliphate on its own shoulders, and would have given the last one the same treatment as to the first one. Then you would have seen that in my view this world of yours is no better than the sneezing of a goat.

(It is said that when Amir al-mu'minin reached here in his sermon a man of Iraq stood up and handed him over a writing. Amir al-mu'minin began looking at it, when Ibn `Abbas said, "O' Amir al-mu'minin, I wish you resumed your Sermon from where you broke it." Thereupon he replied, "O' Ibn `Abbas it was like the foam of a Camel which gushed out but subsided." Ibn `Abbas says that he never grieved over any utterance as he did over this one because Amir al-mu'minin could not finish it as he wished to.)

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One big difference is that in Shi'a version, the part 'what we leave behind is (to be given in) charity' is not there.

ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ ÇáúÍóÓóäö æó Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ãõÍóãøóÏò Úóäú Óóåúáö Èúäö ÒöíóÇÏò æó ãõÍóãøóÏõ Èúäõ íóÍúíóì Úóäú ÃóÍúãóÏó Èúäö ãõÍóãøóÏò ÌóãöíÚÇð Úóäú ÌóÚúÝóÑö Èúäö ãõÍóãøóÏò ÇáúÃóÔúÚóÑöíøö Úóäú ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö Èúäö ãóíúãõæäò ÇáúÞóÏøóÇÍö æó Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ÅöÈúÑóÇåöíãó Úóäú ÃóÈöíåö Úóäú ÍóãøóÇÏö Èúäö ÚöíÓóì Úóäö ÇáúÞóÏøóÇÍö Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó ÞóÇáó ÑóÓõæáõ Çááøóåö ( Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå ) ãóäú Óóáóßó ØóÑöíÞÇð íóØúáõÈõ Ýöíåö ÚöáúãÇð Óóáóßó Çááøóåõ Èöåö ØóÑöíÞÇð Åöáóì ÇáúÌóäøóÉö æó Åöäøó ÇáúãóáóÇÆößóÉó áóÊóÖóÚõ ÃóÌúäöÍóÊóåóÇ áöØóÇáöÈö ÇáúÚöáúãö ÑöÖðÇ Èöåö æó Åöäøóåõ íóÓúÊóÛúÝöÑõ áöØóÇáöÈö ÇáúÚöáúãö ãóäú Ýöí ÇáÓøóãóÇÁö æó ãóäú Ýöí ÇáúÃóÑúÖö ÍóÊøóì ÇáúÍõæÊö Ýöí ÇáúÈóÍúÑö æó ÝóÖúáõ ÇáúÚóÇáöãö Úóáóì ÇáúÚóÇÈöÏö ßóÝóÖúáö ÇáúÞóãóÑö Úóáóì ÓóÇÆöÑö ÇáäøõÌõæãö áóíúáóÉó ÇáúÈóÏúÑö æó Åöäøó ÇáúÚõáóãóÇÁó æóÑóËóÉõ ÇáúÃóäúÈöíóÇÁö Åöäøó ÇáúÃóäúÈöíóÇÁó áóãú íõæóÑøöËõæÇ ÏöíäóÇÑÇð æó áóÇ ÏöÑúåóãÇð æó áóßöäú æóÑøóËõæÇ ÇáúÚöáúãó Ýóãóäú ÃóÎóÐó ãöäúåõ ÃóÎóÐó ÈöÍóÙøò æóÇÝöÑò

áå ÓäÏÇä ÇáÃæá ãÌåæá æÇáËÇäí ãæËÞ ÍÓä Ãæ ãæËÞ áÇ íÞÕÑÇä Úä ÇáÕÍíÍ

w/s

‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of [‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no. 2)

Doesnt this narration shows that the heirs of Prophets are ULAMA, AND THEY(ULAMA) DOESNT INHERIT , MONEY BUT JUST KNOWLEDGE FOR THEM(ULAMA).

So ULAMA doesnt get inheritance except that which is knowledge...

So are ULAMA according to shia Imams? they are the ahlebayt.

Saduq in "al-Khisal":

3-115 ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä ÑÖí Çááå Úäå ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓä ÇáÕÝÇÑ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Èä ÚíÓì¡ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ÇáæÔÇÁ.Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÇÆС Úä ÃÈí ÎÏíÌÉ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ÞÇá:ÇáäÇÓ íÛÏæä Úáì ËáÇËÉ ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÛËÇÁ¡ ÝäÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ.

3-115 Muhammad ibn al-Hassan - may God be pleased with him - narrated that Muhammad ibn al-Hassan al-Saffar quoted on the authority of Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Isa, on the authority of Al-Hassan ibn Ali al-Vasha, on the authority of Ahmad ibn A’ez, on the authority of Abi Khadijeh that Aba Abdullah as-Sadiq (MGB) said, “The people can be divided into three groups: the knowledgeable scholars, the seekers of knowledge and the scum. We are the knowledgeable scholars. Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”

It was also narrated in "Basair darajat" p 25 via 4 chains:

ÍÏËäÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä åÇÔã Úä íÍíì Èä ÃÈí ÚãÑÇä Úä íæäÓ Úä Ìãíá ÞÇá ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú íÞæá íÛÏæÇ ÇáäÇÓ Úáì ËáÇËÉ ÕäæÝ ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÛËÇÁ ÝäÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ

ÍÏËäí ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí Úä ÇáÚÈÇÓ Èä ÚÇãÑ Úä ÓíÝ Èä ÚãíÑÉ Úä ÚãÑæ Èä ÔãÑ Úä ÌÇÈÑ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú ÞÇá Åä ÇáäÇÓ ÑÌáÇä ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÓÇíÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ ÝäÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ

ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ Èä ÇáÍÓíä Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÑÍãä Èä ÃÈí åÇÔã Úä ÓÇáã Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú ÞÇá ÇáäÇÓ íÛÏæä Úáì ËáÇËÉ ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÛËÇÁ ÝäÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ

ÍÏËäí ãÍãÏ Èä ÚÈÏ ÇáÍãíÏ Úä ÓíÝ Èä ÚãíÑå ÞÇá ÍÏËäí ÃÈæ ÓáãÉ ÞÇá ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú íÞæá íÛÏæÇ ÇáäÇÓ Úáì ËáÇËÉ ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÛËÇÁ ÝÓÆáæå Úä Ðáß ÝÞÇá äÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ

ÍÏËäÇ ÃÍãÏ Èä ãÍãÏ Úä ÇáÍÓä Èä Úáí ÇáæÔÇ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÚÇíÐ Úä ÃÈí ÎÏíÌÉ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå Ú ÞÇá Åä ÇáäÇÓ íÛÏæä Úáì ËáÇËÉ ÚÇáã æãÊÚáã æÛËÇÁ ÝäÍä ÇáÚáãÇÁ æÔíÚÊäÇ ÇáãÊÚáãæä æÓÇÆÑ ÇáäÇÓ ÛËÇÁ

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‘Ali ibn Ibrahim narrates from his father, from Hammad ibn ‘Isa, on the authority of [‘Abdullah ibn Maymun] al-Qaddah that Abu ‘Abdillah [imam Ja‘far as-Sadiq] ‘alayhis salam said: Rasulullah sallallahu ‘alayhi wa-alihi wasallam said: “Whoever walks a path seeking therein knowledge, Allah will lead him on a road to Jannah... And the ‘Ulama are the heirs of the Ambiya; and the Ambiya did not leave dinars and dirhams as inheritance; but they left knowledge. Therefore whosoever takes knowledge has taken a great portion.” (al-Kafi, Kitab Fadl al-‘Ilm, Bab Sifat al-‘Ilm wa-Fadlihi, hadith no. 2)

Doesnt this narration shows that the heirs of Prophets are ULAMA, AND THEY(ULAMA) DOESNT INHERIT , MONEY BUT JUST KNOWLEDGE FOR THEM(ULAMA).

^True. That's why Imam Ali inherited knowledge (ilm) from Prophet (saw) and Fatima (saw) inherited land from her father(saw).

Úáí Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÇÈä ÃÈí ÚãíÑ¡ Úä Ìãíá Èä ÏÑÇÌ¡ Úä ÒÑÇÑÉ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÌÚÝÑ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÞÇá: æÑË Úáí (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) Úáã ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå) ææÑËÊ ÝÇØãÉ ÚáíåÇ ÇáÓáÇã ÊÑßÊå

w/s

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Thanks, but im curious to know that, from which category was hz fatima(ra) if not the first.... AND WASNT SHE FROM AHLEBAYT(WHO WERE COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS THEY WERE THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE)?

The people can be divided into three groups: the knowledgeable scholars, the seekers of knowledge and the scum. We are the knowledgeable scholars. Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”

FROM THE SECOND??

We I dont think any shia here will agree that, hz fatima(ra) was not from the ULAMA and that she wasnt the knowledgable ones..

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Thanks, but im curious to know that, from which category was hz fatima(ra) if not the first.... AND WASNT SHE FROM AHLEBAYT(WHO WERE COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS THEY WERE THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE)?

The people can be divided into three groups: the knowledgeable scholars, the seekers of knowledge and the scum. We are the knowledgeable scholars. Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”

FROM THE SECOND??

We I dont think any shia here will agree that, hz fatima(ra) was not from the ULAMA and that she wasnt the knowledgable ones..

She inherited land as a daughter. Read Post 21.

w/s

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She inherited land as a daughter. Read Post 21.

w/s

You didnt answer my question brother..... Its not about what she inherited.

here its again.....

from which category was hz fatima(ra) if not the first.... AND WASNT SHE FROM AHLEBAYT(WHO WERE COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS THEY WERE THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE)?

The people can be divided into three groups: the knowledgeable scholars, the seekers of knowledge and the scum. We are the knowledgeable scholars.(keep in mind that(ulama)(ulama doesnt inherit anything except knowledge) Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”

FROM THE SECOND??

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from which category was hz fatima(ra) if not the first.... AND WASNT SHE FROM AHLEBAYT(WHO WERE COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS THEY WERE THE MOST KNOWLEDGABLE)?

Do you believe that Bibi Fatima (as) was from AHLEBAYT (SHE WAS COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS SHE WAS THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE)?

If you do, then you won't be dumb like abu Bakr, when she told him that she should inherit, then the dumb abu Bakr should have known that Bibi Fatima (as) was from AHLEBAYT (SHE WAS COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS SHE WAS THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE).

But abu Bakr was as blind sighted as you are, even when you quote from the Quran and Sunnah that Bibi Fatima (as) was from AHLEBAYT (SHE WAS COMMANDED TO BE FOLLOWED, AS SHE WAS THE MOST KNOWLEDGEABLE), he didn't allow her to inherit.

We are the knowledgeable scholars. Our followers are the seekers of knowledge and the rest of the people are the scum.”

And guess what, you do really belong to rest of the people who are the scum!

Edited by aladdin
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I could have sworn Bibi Fatima didn't inherit Fadak from her father. Wasn't it a gift from the Prophet(as) ?

The wives who had combined share of 1/8 inheritance, inhered all the properties. Where as, the only surviving child who should inherit the rest 7/8, was not allowed to inherit anything.

Yes, abu Bakr gave the complete house to Aisha as inheritance, and denied the 7/8 right of the only surviving child. Guess what, Aisha was blood to abu Bakr as she was his daughter, but Bibi Fatima (as) wan no one to abu Bakr.

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The wives who had combined share of 1/8 inheritance, inhered all the properties. Where as, the only surviving child who should inherit the rest 7/8, was not allowed to inherit anything.

Yes, abu Bakr gave the complete house to Aisha as inheritance, and denied the 7/8 right of the only surviving child. Guess what, Aisha was blood to abu Bakr as she was his daughter, but Bibi Fatima (as) wan no one to abu Bakr.

Sorry they(wives of prophet(saw)) too didnt inherit anything.... Because those houses were already their own property , And were named after them like hujre ayesha etc... , even the quran says so....33:33 stay IN YOUR HOUSES........ the verse doesnt say, stay IN PROPHET'S houses....

And If you say so then you must surely find a discussion between hz abubakar(ra) and hz ali(ra) or hz abbas(ra) or hz umar(ra) and hz ali(ra) or hz abbas(ra) based on this issue that when the wives inherited why cant hz fatima(ra)....

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Sorry they(wives of prophet(saw)) too didnt inherit anything.... Because those houses were already their own property , And were named after them like hujre ayesha etc... , even the quran says so....33:33 stay IN YOUR HOUSES........ the verse doesnt say, stay IN PROPHET'S houses....

Yes, I forgot. It was abu Bakr who purchased the land for his daughter Aisha and build the house for her.

BTW, hujre Aisha means, room of Aisha.

As far as the Holy Quran is concerned, stay in your house meant don't make mischief, don't mingle with men, don't make a display. But guess what, Aisha didn't listens to the Command of Allah in the Holy Quran, as at first she got on the camel and later on she got on the donkey.

She didn't listen to the direct Command of Allah to her!

The direct Command of Allah to stay in the houses!

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Yes, I forgot. It was abu Bakr who purchased the land for his daughter Aisha and build the house for her.

No every appartment of the wives were their own...

BTW, hujre Aisha means, room of Aisha.

Her house was a single room.

As far as the Holy Quran is concerned, stay in your house meant don't make mischief, don't mingle with men, don't make a display. But guess what, Aisha didn't listens to the Command of Allah in the Holy Quran, as at first she got on the camel and later on she got on the donkey.

She didn't listen to the direct Command of Allah to her!

Master of derailing topics.....

I could have sworn Bibi Fatima didn't inherit Fadak from her father.

This is what i wanted to proof. My job is done alhamdulilah...(smile)

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